Clifford Davis

[doodyhead]

I am starting a new thread on this because it has no place in McNuggets.

Clifford Davis has gotten little flack over the years. I think he arguably be a member of Fleetwood Mac, just because of his entanglements with the band. Since I have only paltry knowledge I will recount a few salient bits of information

Clifford acquired publishing rights to several of Peter Greens and Fleetwood Macs songs. I assume he is on the royalty gravy train every time some of these songs are played. As a result he recorded a few of them on his "box office smashing record album "

He was the person who played cat and mouse with Blue Horizon and jumped record labels which sent the band into commercial hell/ or heaven depending on your perspective

He is the reason why Peter even had to talk about where his money was coming from or going to as he got the other half of the royalty check

He was the guy who made the fake Fleetwood Mac band to compete with Danny Christine and company, partly because he owns rights to some of their songs from that same deal

He is the person who elects to call the police on Peter. Was it real threat or convenience?

And because of the above He also stands to gain financially any time the good/or bad publicity hits surrounding Peter or the Band

any thoughts?

The inquiring Doodyhead

[Norton]

Here's where it gets interesting.

According to the PG bio on this site, and also Martin Celmins bio of PG, Clifford Davis was married to Mich Reynolds (who co-managed The Spliter Group), who is the sister of Nigel Watson.

[dino]

Here's where it gets interesting.

According to the PG bio on this site, and also Martin Celmins bio of PG, Clifford Davis was married to Mitch Reynolds (who co-managed The Spliter Group), who is the sister of Nigel Watson.

Clifford Davis doesn't hold any publishing rights. He signed over them to his wife (Mich, not Mitch) in the 70's, later on she divorced him so he lost the rights.

[sharksfan2000]

Good topic, and obviously a lot we could get into here. IIRC, Mick Fleetwood really laid into Clifford Davis in his book - very understandable from his viewpoint given the trouble caused by the fake Fleetwood Mac affair. I recall that Bob Brunning discusses Davis much more sympathetically in his book. Can't particularly remember how Celmins treats him but maybe more even-handedly? I'm sure he did a lot of positive things in the early days that helped with the band's success by the end of the '60s, but did that outweigh some of the other things he did? A controversial person in the history of the band for sure.

[peer_gynt10]

I think he arguably be a member of Fleetwood Mac, just because of his entanglements with the band.

Just imagine him being introduced into the Hall of Fame then!! :p

[michelej1]

[Excerpt from an article about Rich Engler's new book]

Pittsburgh Post Gazette

http://www.post-gazette.com/ae/books/2013/12/11/A-rock-n-roll-life-behind-the-scenes/stories/201312110022

In short order, DiCesare-Engler became one of the nation's top promoters, but it didn't start well. Mr. Engler's job was handling the deals, and the first show he booked was Fleetwood Mac, a band he'd worked with prior, at the Syria Mosque. The night of the concert, "Fleetwood Mac" showed up without Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, Bob Welch or anyone else people knew as Fleetwood Mac. When Mr. Engler balked at putting an imposter band on stage, the manager, who owned the Fleetwood name, took a swing at him. After much quarrelling, the show went on and the crowd, inexplicably, loved it.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/ae/books/2013/12/11/A-rock-n-roll-life-behind-the-scenes/stories/201312110022#ixzz2nIZtMng9

[chiliD]

Well, was it not for Clifford Davies, Fleetwood Mac may have not had the smooth ride as with Reprise/WB all those years. John Lennon had pretty much talked Peter into getting Fleetwood Mac signed with Apple. And we all know what happened to the Apple acts that weren't named "The Beatles". :shrug:

[chiliD]

...and the crowd, inexplicably, loved it.

I would THINK that was the one & only show where that happened. Every show I've read that they played, they were booed off the stage after about 3 songs.

[Evan Morris]

The version I've heard is that Davis did not call the police on Peter. He called the accountant that Peter vebally threated in a phone conversation with Davis.

The accountant then called the police.

[wetcamelfood]

I would THINK that was the one & only show where that happened. Every show I've read that they played, they were booed off the stage after about 3 songs.

Yeah Dave Wilkinson said in Bruns' book that the first show was in Pittsburgh and was well received but more questions about them came up as the gigs went on and we know the rest. It makes you wonder though how even 1 show can go on like that, with NO other real members and no one questioning/noticing that.

John

[aleuzzi]

The only virtue of Bob Brunning's book about the band is the section that discusses Davis, the fake Mac, and the ensuing lawsuit. There we see several sides to the story Mick never (understandably) mentions in his book. As far as Mick goes is when he says "we sort of let it happen to ourselves." That could mean a lot of things.

As much as the real story is probably murkier than the version in Mick's book, I can't ever imagine Mick being willing to play without John at his side. And it was clear that Davis didn't make room for John in his new band--only Mick and Christine, should they want to join in.

[SteveMacD]

Well, was it not for Clifford Davies, Fleetwood Mac may have not had the smooth ride as with Reprise/WB all those years. John Lennon had pretty much talked Peter into getting Fleetwood Mac signed with Apple. And we all know what happened to the Apple acts that weren't named "The Beatles". :shrug:
Well, James Taylor seems to be doing okay.

[SteveMacD]

It makes you wonder though how even 1 show can go on like that, with NO other real members and no one questioning/noticing that.
Elmer Gantry kind of looked like Bob Welch. And, remember, this was the era where there was a revolving door of personnel.

http://www.alexgitlin.com/stretch5.jpg

[Wendy Welch]

To become a member of Fleetwood mac, Clifford Davis/aka Adams required all members to give 50% of their publishing to him. I have that contract for Bob Welch . He owned 50% of all of Bob's songs until he either sold them or whatever. I have spent 13 years trying to track down these song titles and have finally gotten tw9 new companies, which just bought them to pay us Bob's 50% share since 2000 and prior. He played many games with the companies and never paid us. He is totally contemptible and a gangster as far as I am concerned. He also still gets 10% of all of Bob's record royalties as well as the rest of the bands for those early years. That is a fact. He gets 50% of Bob's publishing for his solo hit "Sentimental Lady" as well, or either the publishing company he sold the rights to does. He slams Bob, yet he is making more off Bob's songwriting than anyone else he managed because of Sentimental Lady. I cannot regain control of these coyrights until at least 50 some odd years after they were written per copyright law. More about all of this Davis /Adams stuff will be honestly told in the book Bob wrote in about a year.

[chiliD]

Elmer Gantry kind of looked like Bob Welch.

http://www.alexgitlin.com/stretch5.jpg

Maybe after a 12-pack of Colt-45 talls & few hits of black tar hash. :lol:

[SteveMacD]

Maybe after a 12-pack of Colt-45 talls & few hits of black tar hash. :lol:

Which was entirely possible in Pittsburgh in 1974. :laugh:

[THD]

To become a member of Fleetwood mac, Clifford Davis/aka Adams required all members to give 50% of their publishing to him. I have that contract for Bob Welch . He owned 50% of all of Bob's songs until he either sold them or whatever.


Wendy Are you saying that Cliff Adams ran a publishing company to which Fleetwood Mac and members of Fleetwood Mac were signed and that the publishing company took a 50%share ?(most publishing companies would have taken a 60%share incidentally ! Publishing companies are supposed to keep track of the usage of the songs ,organise sheet music printing and sales and grant permissions and gather the money from the recording of the songs by other artists etc etc if he did this, he was doing what a publishing company does for its 60% share !?
(Or are you saying that after the 60%share went to the publishing company he took a further personal 50% of the remaining 40% share and had a contract to prove it ?)


Northern songs had an approx 60 /40 split with Lennon and McCartney, but that 60% was sold to ATV, who subsequently sold it to Michael Jackon (or his companies) ,which is why he did( or his estate still does ?) earn more money than McCartney and Lennon's estate (Yoko )when one of their songs is played on the radio anywhere in the world!(not including the money L&M get for actually playing on the record ofcourse )He also had the right to say how it could be used even if McCartney didn't want it used in that advert or that film- the 60%gave him majority control That is why a 50%split would be unusual It's far too democratic !

Not paying royalties of the 40% due to the artists from the contract is a different thing ,and is outrageous (but unfortunately all to common in the music business ( apparently !) )

[wetcamelfood]

I can't ever imagine Mick being willing to play without John at his side.

The Zoo says hello. :)

John

[chiliD]

The Zoo says hello. :)

John

Let's not forget Lenny Castellano, too!

[aleuzzi]

The Zoo says hello. :)

John

I meant under the name Fleetwood Mac. But touché anyway :)

[wetcamelfood]

I meant under the name Fleetwood Mac. But touché anyway :)

I know, just kiddin'. :)

John

[aleuzzi]

I know, just kiddin'. :)

John

And I did appreciate the rib...gotta' have some fun on this. Otherwise, what's the point?

[dino]

Clifford Adams/Davis allegedly signed over all his Mac right to his wife who later divorced him. So he probably has no stake in copyrights at this stage.

[aleuzzi]

Clifford Adams/Davis allegedly signed over all his Mac right to his wife who later divorced him. So he probably has no stake in copyrights at this stage.

I think in a more recent interview, maybe for Brunning's book, he said that the divorce cleaned him out, and that now he's making a steadier living in real estate.

[dansven]

Yes, and his ex-wife was like... Michell Reynolds or something?
Nigel Watson's sister??

[dino]

Yes, and his ex-wife was like... Michell Reynolds or something?
Nigel Watson's sister??

Yes, Mich Reynolds, Nigel's sister and the first manager of Splinter Group who apparently owns Clifford's part of the early Mac publishing.