Trouble in Shangri-la vs Say You Will

[BigLee770]

Hi everyone,

As all of us know Stevie's solo album Trouble in Shangri-la was released in 2001, whilst the Fleetwood Mac album was released in 2003. So both were released within a fairly short period of time.

My question is which of the 2 albums in your opinion is better?
You're answer must only be based upon Stevie's contributions regarding Say You Will.
So do you prefer the songs from Stevie's Trouble... or do you think the songs she contributed to Say You Will were better than her own solo songs??

Personally, I will be voting for Say You Will. If I have the choice between putting on either album it would be Say You Will. I think out of the 13 songs on Trouble there are really only a handful of solid Stevie songs: - ie. I personally think her best songs are Sorcerer, Planets - (note how both are actually old demo's), and one or two other are listenable.

For me i think her contributions to Say You Will are far stronger. I think Thrown Down and Everybody Finds Out are musically superb. Lyrically all of her songs are strong with the odd exception.
So for me Say You Will wins...

I hope this poll doesn't start any arguments... lol But i'm just wondering what other people's opinions are...

You Decide...

[TerraRhiannon]

I personally like Trouble in Shangri-La songs the best. Sorcerer, Planets of the Universe, Trouble in Shangri-La, Love Is, Fall From Grace.... I like her vocals on TISL the best too, though I sometimes find her Say You Will songs a bit edgier.

edit: how did I forget fall from grace?

[OooMissionary]

Hmm...

The production in TISL wins, by far.

The song choice for SYW wins, by far.

I'm totally in love with the following on TISL:

Trouble in Shangri-La
Sorcerer
Planets of the Universe
I Miss You
Bombay Sapphires
Fall From Grace
Love Is

I totally in love the following on SYW:

Thrown Down
Everybody Finds Out
Destiny Rules

That being said... I like and listen to both... But TISL wins out

[tilthefirefades]

TISL is my favorite album ever, it is just brilliant from start to finish. And while That Made Me Stronger is not a Love Is or Planets, it's still a decent enough song with a strong melody. SYW is my favorite FM album, mostly because it was my first. I've grown more fond of Lindsey's songs, but Silver Girl is still my favorite from the album :D

[TerraRhiannon]

Hmm...

The production in TISL wins, by far.

The song choice for SYW wins, by far.

I'm totally in love with the following on TISL:

Trouble in Shangri-La
Sorcerer
Planets of the Universe
I Miss You
Bombay Sapphires
Fall From Grace
Love Is

I totally in love the following on SYW:

Thrown Down
Everybody Finds Out
Destiny Rules

That being said... I like and listen to both... But TISL wins out

I've never heard Everybody Finds Out :O But I'm totally in love with Illume, however.

[BigLee770]

I think I agree in that respect with you Ooo Missionary ... The Production in TISL was better but I would argue that the song choices for SYW were better.

[Artemis]

I say. TISL. See. I love evebry day. and the others.

SYW has.. therown down,. RRTG and that otnet one. but. TISL is amazing. I can even listen to the dude s and enjoy them. Wghile Silver Girls make me want to smahs things.

[KarmaContestant]

I'm going to vote for Say You Will, though it's not without disclaimers.

The production on TISL is better.
The vocals on TISL are better.
The songwriting on SYW is better.

Ideally, The songs on SYW combined with Planets, Sorcerer, Candlebright, Love Is, Bombay Sapphires, Fall From Grace and I Miss You in place of Silver Girlwould have made a superior album in my opinion. I think I'll make this playlist for myself when I get home from work.

[HejiraNYC]

TISL fo' shizzle. :nod:

There isn't a Stevie song on SYW that makes me go, "wow, this is among the best stuff she's ever done." TISL is full of those moments- "TISL," "Planets...", "It's Only Love," etc. It's frustrating because there were so many songs with potential on SYW that were completely botched by Lindsey. They seriously should have called in John Shanks to produce.

[BigLee770]

"I've never heard Everybody Finds Out :O But I'm totally in love with Illume,"

Here's a link for you Terra Rhiannon....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjF0svqQR9k

I love this song... especially the build up to when Stevie practically spits out the lyrics, "When everybody finds out ... Don't you know" (repetition) - and how the strings build up!!!

[Pyewacket]

It's TISL for me...so much so that, though I've heard Say You Will and (to my surprise) it appears in its entirety on my itunes...I would only be able to sing along with a song or two.

Something about this album just never grabbed me, whether it's the lack of Christine or the fact that "Peacekeeper" sounds in places like Simon and Garfunkel's "Kodachrome"...I think overall it's that packaging-wise and music-wise, it doesn't seem very "juicy." It's a little dry, unlike all my previous entanglements with the Mac.

TISL suffers from this dry blandness a little too (not nearly as badly), but still it's Stevie's best album since Rock A Little.

[TerraRhiannon]

I've never heard Everybody Finds Out :O But I'm totally in love with Illume, however.[/COLOR]

Here's a link...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjF0svqQR9k

I love this song... especially the build up to when Stevie practically spits out the lyrics, "When everybody finds out ... Don't you know" (repetition) - and how the strings build up!!![/QUOTE]

Oh thanks! That is a really good song!

[KarmaContestant]

It's frustrating because there were so many songs with potential on SYW that were completely botched by Lindsey. They seriously should have called in John Shanks to produce.

This, exactly.

[Musicman408]

I'm almost having to choose SYW, simply because that is the album my dad bought for himself in 2003 while we were on vacation that got me started on Fleetwood Mac/Stevie!!!!

[chiliD]

Both albums have major flaws, but both also have some great tunes.

Initially, I would lean toward Say You Will due to it being Fleetwood Mac and not just "studio cats" making the music. (How can you top John McVie's bass work on "Smile At You"?? That's right, you can't!) After hearing Richard Ashcroft's "New York", Stevie's "Illume" dropped a few notches on my list...they're almost identical, but Ashcroft's was released considerably earlier. If it weren't for the first two lines of "Destiny Rules", that was in the running for my favorite Stevie tune on the album...but, jeez, those first two lines just ruin the rest of the song. She sounds like Johnny friggin' Cash on those...and not in a GOOD way.

But, as far as Stevie Nicks solo albums, TISL, to me, is her best album through & through.

I have a couple of tweaks that would've made it better (for ME, that is):

add "Touched By An Angel" & "Thrown Down" (what has heretofore been referred to as the "wall of sound" version) and toss "Too Far From Texas" off the album and onto a single B-side.

[mezzoforte]

I think TISL is a more even album-- I like most of the songs, and don't hate any. But while I will literally leap across the room to skip away from Silver Girl, I love almost all of Stevie's other songs on SYW.
I completely, totally adore Thrown Down, Destiny Rules, and Running Through the Garden. And I know Goodbye Baby and Smile at You were disappointing to many, but I think they're pretty great. Since I'm a newer fan and hadn't heard or loved the demos, I wasn't approaching them from the same perspective, I guess.

And I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I think the production on SYW is aging better than that on TISL. Some of the songs sound a little dated, but most don't, to my ears.

[GoldDustOrphan]

TISL by a landslide.

All I can say about SYW is that I'm still waiting for my personal, hand-written apology from the guy that murdered Smile at You, The Tower and Running Through the Garden in cold blood.

[louielouie2000]

These two albums are just so very different that I've never really even thought about comparing them. To me, I guess SYW is the better of the two, though. I'm on the other side of the coin from HejiraNYC (per usual!), but like he said, there are just no songs on TISL that can be ranked among the best she's ever done. However, I would stack Destiny Rules and Illume in the same ranks as some of Stevie's classics. The only song I even find myself listening to from TISL anymore is Bombay Sapphires. That song still just sparkles out of the speakers, while the rest of TISL just sounds murky to my ears. I think it's cool Bombay Sapphires is the only song of her own she's ever self-produced, too. Makes me wonder if Stevie might have a third act in life as a producer? Weirder things have happened...

[peer_gynt10]

I voted for Trouble, because her vocals are stronger and more passionate. I love Thrown Down, Running through... and Everybody..., but on some SYW tracks, her vocals are so flat and boring and non-committed (Illume, Destiny Rules, Smile at You, not to speak of the title track). Hope I didn't offend anyone now. :shrug:

[Phoenix]

trouble in shangri la for me but I love thrown down say you will and
illume. I know this does not factor in but the music videos for trouble we
beautiful but the ones for sale you will were so bland. plus my favorite show
CHARMED played I miss you now and planets of the universe on 2 of my favorite episodes which I loved.

[KarmaContestant]

I voted for Trouble, because her vocals are stronger and more passionate. I love Thrown Down, Running through... and Everybody..., but on some SYW tracks, her vocals are so flat and boring and non-committed (Illume, Destiny Rules, Smile at You, not to speak of the title track). Hope I didn't offend anyone now. :shrug:

The drudgery of working with Lindsey on a project that doesn't really interest her, I suppose.

[jwd]

TISL is all about continuum and flow. The songs collectively pull you in and take you on a journey, from beginning to end.

SYW is a collection of fragmented songs with no real connection between them. It's like a record with a lot of pops and skips.

[Christopher]

Both albums have major flaws, but both also have some great tunes.

Initially, I would lean toward Say You Will due to it being Fleetwood Mac and not just "studio cats" making the music. (How can you top John McVie's bass work on "Smile At You"?? That's right, you can't!) After hearing Richard Ashcroft's "New York", Stevie's "Illume" dropped a few notches on my list...they're almost identical, but Ashcroft's was released considerably earlier. If it weren't for the first two lines of "Destiny Rules", that was in the running for my favorite Stevie tune on the album...but, jeez, those first two lines just ruin the rest of the song. She sounds like Johnny friggin' Cash on those...and not in a GOOD way.

But, as far as Stevie Nicks solo albums, TISL, to me, is her best album through & through.

I have a couple of tweaks that would've made it better (for ME, that is):

add "Touched By An Angel" & "Thrown Down" (what has heretofore been referred to as the "wall of sound" version) and toss "Too Far From Texas" off the album and onto a single B-side.

I agree with most of this. More specifically I concur that "Thrown Down" should have never been thrown off of TISL (making that record near perfect) and John McVie really really shines on many of Stevie's SYW songs. Even if I don't love the overall arrangement and direction SAY ended with, Mcvie's bass is extraordinary and a highlight on Illume & Everybody Finds Out as well. Lindsey really shines on the guitar finale of Destiny Rules. I remember a critic referred to it as Fleetwood Mac meets The Smiths... I was like HELL yes!! Johnny Marr is a brilliant guitarist and The Smiths are one of my favorite bands.

But as a total package I had to vote for TISL. Sure I argue with myself thinking Stevie's SYW songs are a bit edgier, and I always wanted an edgy Stevie Nicks record. But I wonder how they recorded her vocals, or what they were hearing in playbacks. Were they all stoned?!:rolleyes: Cause Stevie sounds like she was smoking something... because to my ears her vocals are sonically razor sharp to the point of nails on a chalk board cringe worthy at times, and that ruins it for me in places. On the other hand her vocals on Thrown Down and even Silver Girl are nice. While SAY, EFO & Illume have great moments. But ultimately I've decided Stevie current voice requires delicate layers of production to make it palatable for the masses. This is what I'm hoping for on In Your Dreams. No T Bone for Stevie, unless she wants to go out with a total Johnny Cash or Marianne Faithful vibe.

In the future the only way we are getting another Fleewtood Mac record is if Lindsey & Stevie agree on using an outside producer & agree on the producer. And I think the odds are in favor of this happening. So then it will not be SYW pt. 2, instead they should pared down to hopefully 12 stellar tracks where they both can shine.

[bluefox4000]

Funny I've been spinning TISL relentlessly lately. I used to not think much of it.....but it's growing on me. Some really great Tunes on that album. SYW....not much there at all. That album just frustrates me too no end. TISL has more of a classic Nicks feel Though. Trim off..for me.....Planets of the Universe, Bombay Sapphires, and Fall From Grace, and you've got a great album. Stevie needs to learn album trimming, but I digress. I also don't like the nose singing on TISL....Oh well. Getting warmer on that album though:thumbsup:

Mick

[TerraRhiannon]

Funny I've been spinning TISL relentlessly lately. I used to not think much of it.....but it's growing on me. Some really great Tunes on that album. SYW....not much there at all. That album just frustrates me too no end. TISL has more of a classic Nicks feel Though. Trim off..for me.....Planets of the Universe, Bombay Sapphires, and Fall From Grace, and you've got a great album. Stevie needs to learn album trimming, but I digress. I also don't like the nose singing on TISL....Oh well. Getting warmer on that album though:thumbsup:

Mick

After 10 years, oh dear. Haha ;) That was a real grower.

[bluefox4000]

Lol I know:lol: I hated it...But I said....Mick Give it a go. You know when something for no reason clicks. Well it happened.:thumbsup: She better not crush me with In Your Dreams

Mick

[CADreaming]

I knew this would turn into the bash Lindsey again thread....:wavey:

Meanwhile, I LOVE Stevie's songs on SYW. I LOVE Illume, Running Through the Garden, Everybody Finds Out, Thrown Down, Say You Will, Smile at You, Not Make Believe and I've come to appreciate Destiny Rules and Silver Girl.

I don't think it's fair to compare this body of work with TISL because that was a solo thing and regardless of everyone saying how jacked up they think SYW is - I actually appreciate it more when I listen to the entire project together.

I think TISL is wonderful and I think the production on it was perfect for a Stevie solo album. But, I prefer her songs as a whole on SYW and admire the artistry behind the production of the SYW songs. Lindsey's guitar solo at the end of RTTG is by far one of my all-time favorites. Also, I'm always going to love their harmonies and I love that whole funky voice stuff in the middle of Illume and how she picks her vocals up right after that as if she's just totally overcome with the emotion and his voice echoing hers - very haunting vibe and perfect for the song.

I don't know why everybody hates on Smile at You. Sure, the demo was great...a hundred years ago when it was recorded. I appreciate the new lyrics and the mature perspective she brings to it in the SYW version though and again the vocal layering and the spanish acoustic guitar at the end is delicious.

Just love these songs!

[Jondalar]

TISL had too many producers. It was sorta a good try, but no dice. The title track + planets are memorable, but a lot of the songs had no presence whatsover.

[AliceLover]

Trouble in Shangri La is good but it is also boring at the same time. I rarely will flip to a song on my Ipod from TISL. If I do, I skip to the end of Fall From Grace, the choruses of Sorcerer, or the middle of Planets.

None of the songs can sustain my attention for very long. I think its a good album, just not great.

With that said, I'll vote Say You Will.

[Christopher]

These two albums are just so very different that I've never really even thought about comparing them. To me, I guess SYW is the better of the two, though. I'm on the other side of the coin from HejiraNYC (per usual!), but like he said, there are just no songs on TISL that can be ranked among the best she's ever done. However, I would stack Destiny Rules and Illume in the same ranks as some of Stevie's classics. The only song I even find myself listening to from TISL anymore is Bombay Sapphires. That song still just sparkles out of the speakers, while the rest of TISL just sounds murky to my ears. I think it's cool Bombay Sapphires is the only song of her own she's ever self-produced, too. Makes me wonder if Stevie might have a third act in life as a producer? Weirder things have happened...

Louie, I usually love your insights, even though I don't always agree - especially on this point highlighted. Seriously, how can you not rank "Trouble In Shangri~La" (the song) & POTU among some of the best things Stevie has ever done solo or even in her entire career. The production on TISL is fantastic. The layered chorus is BRILLIANT and still gives me goosebumps. And the whole ending "You can consume all the beauty in the room BABY" Before the dawn of seperation"....is awesomely delicious and friggin' sonic masterbation IMHO:xoxo: I've seen some Ledgies say Stevie's vocals on TISL are dull. But I don't think thats necessarily so...She really sings TISL with conviction & passion! "It's Only Love" is probably my favorite Stevie vocal in the last 25 years! "Love is" has some real highlights vocally in the beginning and ending. And I feel every reflective and yearning emotion she conveys during "I Miss You". I could go on...... But I will give you Too Far From Texas....she definitely phoned that one in.:p And it's too bad cause that is a catchy nice little ditty, ruined in part by a uninspired delivery.

[KarmaContestant]

I knew this would turn into the bash Lindsey again thread....:wavey:



My intention isn't to bash Lindsey, since he's amazing in his own right. That said, I do think their best days of working together are long gone; their passion for making music together seems lacking on most - but not all - of Stevie's Say You Will material. On the other hand, Say Goodbye is great, for example and feels like a Fleetwood Mac song.

[Jondalar]

Well here is my take on TISL

TISL- was the best track on the album, great great chorus, the lyrics though were a little too cinematic, hard to follow what she was talking about

Candlebright - was good and atmospheric but for some reason Sheryl Crow managed to ruin it by using the mandolin.

Sorcerer - was nice, glad she went for the higher notes, no where near as the Marylin Martin version, ended up a little bland, it was ok

Planets - probably one of the most well written songs of her career was really good track, a little wordy, but defintely really good, unfortunately it lacked something that the slow version had, beauty

Everyday - a good song, great chorus, but too small, needed more presence.

That Made Me Stronger - gross

It's Only Love - great vocal, too small, doesn't stick in your mind, no presence

Love Changes - bland, no presence, should of been rock, not synthed out

I Miss You - great chorus, good song, the emotional core of the album that somehow ended up being bland and small

Bombay Sapphires - really good music, the lyrics are way too experiemental, sounds like a space-age love songs, the lyrics make you feel stupid for listening to it

Fall from Grace - really good rocker until you realize that Stevie is never going to shut up, there are way too many words in this song, she does not give the listener a rest

Love is - apparantly Love is very bland, no presence, anyone could of written this

That's why Trouble in Shangri is marginal to me. I have a problem with almost every track. The album fealt off too. You could tell that the songs were produced by different people.

[CADreaming]

My intention isn't to bash Lindsey, since he's amazing in his own right. That said, I do think their best days of working together are long gone; their passion for making music together seems lacking on most - but not all - of Stevie's Say You Will material. On the other hand, Say Goodbye is great, for example and feels like a Fleetwood Mac song.

I understand your view. It's just that I honestly wonder if Stevie had never said the recording wasn't a "happy" experience would her fans still have the same negative opinion about those songs? Unfortunately, we'll never know.

Maybe you're right about their working together - but I don't hear SYW like that. I felt it was a real masterpiece of a joint-effort. It was the first FM album I bought after becoming a fan and I was blown away by what I assumed at the time was a true artistic partnership. Honestly, as much as you felt there was no passion on SYW, I felt the exact opposite. My initial response was they were still relevant as a band and had proven it with that material. Just the way I interpreted it.

[Jondalar]

I understand your view. It's just that I honestly wonder if Stevie had never said she the recording wasn't a "happy" experience would her fans still have the same negative opinion about those songs? Unfortunately, we'll never know.

Maybe you're right about their working together - but I don't hear SYW like that. I felt it was a real masterpiece of a joint-effort. It was the first FM album I bought after becoming a fan and I was blown away by what I assumed at the time was a true artistic partnership. Honestly, as much as you felt there was no passion on SYW, I felt the exact opposite. My initial response was they were still relevant as a band and had proven it with that material. Just the way I interpreted it.

I thought Lindseys songs were stellar. Stevie had some moments, but I fealt that that was his album. I liked what she did on that better than TISL. The songs had more presence.

[louielouie2000]

Louie, I usually love your insights, even though I don't always agree - especially on this point highlighted. Seriously, how can you not rank "Trouble In Shangri~La" (the song) & POTU among some of the best things Stevie has ever done solo or even in her entire career. The production on TISL is fantastic. The layered chorus is BRILLIANT and still gives me goosebumps. And the whole ending "You can consume all the beauty in the room BABY" Before the dawn of seperation"....is awesomely delicious and friggin' sonic masterbation IMHO:xoxo: I've seen some Ledgies say Stevie's vocals on TISL are dull. But I don't think thats necessarily so...She really sings TISL with conviction & passion! "It's Only Love" is probably my favorite Stevie vocal in the last 25 years! "Love is" has some real highlights vocally in the beginning and ending. And I feel every reflective and yearning emotion she conveys during "I Miss You". I could go on...... But I will give you Too Far From Texas....she definitely phoned that one in.:p And it's too bad cause that is a catchy nice little ditty, ruined in part by a uninspired delivery.

The thing about TISL vs SYW is this. TISL didn't have any particular songs which blew me out of the water, but as an entire work... it was probably one of Stevie's best. On the flip side, SYW had some *amazing* songs, but totally sucked as an album. My biggest beefs with TISL were Stevie's extremely lackluster vocals (for most, not ALL songs), and the production tended to be soupy in places (again, there are exceptions). Stevie had some stellar works on SYW, but they just seem like a jumbled, random hot mess when put together. I think Stevie still has the ability to easily do better both in quality of individual songs AND album quality as whole. Again, neither album is her best or worst career moment. At the same time, both were missing a bit of magic, too. That's just my opinion, though :wavey:

[SapphireSister]

For me, there is no comparison - TISL by far. Believe it or not the only song of Stevie's I love on SYW is Everybody Finds Out. I really dig SYW, Illume, and Goodbye Baby but the others are mediocre at best in my opinion (not a huge fan of Thrown Down or Destiny rules. I don't know why, I'm just not). And Silver Girl? That speaks for itself...Lindsey's songs, on the other hand, are stellar! As some of you know I'm not a huge LB fan but Come, Murrow Turning Over in His Grave, and Say Goodbye are all brilliant! I mean, I love those 3 songs more than I ever imagined I could be capable of loving an LB composition! I listen to those songs far more than any of Stevie's on SYW.
TISL on the other hand, do I even need to go through each song? With the exception of That Made Me Stronger, I Miss you,Every Day, and TFFT the album is near perfection.

[sorcerer999]

The thing about TISL vs SYW is this. TISL didn't have any particular songs which blew me out of the water

Louie, since none of the songs on TISL really amazed you, what are some of the songs on that album that you at least "like" or can "tolerate"?

I voted for TISL because I really do think it's a good album, granted I only really like 6 songs on it. I love the first 4 tracks, then I skip to "I Miss You" and "Bombay Sapphires".

I don't like her voice at all on SYW. The only song (Stevie song) that I really enjoy is "Running Through The Garden". I prefer the wall of sound "Thrown Down" from the outtakes of TISL than the version that ended up on SYW. I'm probably in the minority there. "Smile At You" and "Goodbye Baby" are okay but nothing special. "Everybody Finds Out" and "Destiny Rules" are GREAT songs (lyrically and musically)...but I don't like them because of her crappy vocal.

[Jondalar]

Louie, since none of the songs on TISL really amazed you, what are some of the songs on that album that you at least "like" or can "tolerate"?

I voted for TISL because I really do think it's a good album, granted I only really like 6 songs on it. I love the first 4 tracks, then I skip to "I Miss You" and "Bombay Sapphires".

I don't like her voice at all on SYW. The only song (Stevie song) that I really enjoy is "Running Through The Garden". I prefer the wall of sound "Thrown Down" from the outtakes of TISL than the version that ended up on SYW. I'm probably in the minority there. "Smile At You" and "Goodbye Baby" are okay but nothing special. "Everybody Finds Out" and "Destiny Rules" are GREAT songs (lyrically and musically)...but I don't like them because of her crappy vocal.

You know I Miss You I think was my biggest disappointment off that album. The chorus was great, it stuck in my head, I got the sentiment, I fealt the song... somehow though it sounded totally bland and small. Yet, I think that song and TISL stuck with me the most because it struck an emotional chord.

[louielouie2000]

Louie, since none of the songs on TISL really amazed you, what are some of the songs on that album that you at least "like" or can "tolerate"?

I voted for TISL because I really do think it's a good album, granted I only really like 6 songs on it. I love the first 4 tracks, then I skip to "I Miss You" and "Bombay Sapphires".

I don't like her voice at all on SYW. The only song (Stevie song) that I really enjoy is "Running Through The Garden". I prefer the wall of sound "Thrown Down" from the outtakes of TISL than the version that ended up on SYW. I'm probably in the minority there. "Smile At You" and "Goodbye Baby" are okay but nothing special. "Everybody Finds Out" and "Destiny Rules" are GREAT songs (lyrically and musically)...but I don't like them because of her crappy vocal.

I adore Bombay Sapphires. It's in no way earth shattering or anything, but it's one of my all time fav songs regardless. I think Love Is is one of the most beautifully emotive songs she's ever written. When the album came out, Candlebright and Planets were my favs. I now think Planets is way, way overproduced... and her vocal on Candlebright is just plain lazy. I've pretty much stopped listening to TISL at this point, and only listen to mp3's of my fav SYW songs. Perhaps in time my opinions will shift on both songs. I know Rock A Little used to be my least fav Stevie album, and now it's one of my favs. So who knows...

Add another vote for the Wall Of Sound Thrown Down. I was so crushed when I heard the flat, skeletal, lifeless version that ended up on SYW. To me, the wall of sound version was the best Buckingham Nicks collaboration in decades.

[markolas]

To me, there's no contest. TISL is far stronger than Stevie's SYW offerings. If it weren't for That Made Me Stronger & Too Far from Texas, TISL would be a perfect album, IMO.

Stevie's SYW songs are just...meh. Over the years, I've come to find Thrown Down to be terribly bland. Say You Will desperately needed a 3rd verse. Illume is good, but that crappy "old lady voice" LB does at the end ruins the whole thing for me. I like what LB did with Smile at You, but the lyrics make me cringe. Destiny Rules is marred by that nasally vocal of Stevie's; and again, lyrically it's a bit weak. Goodbye Baby is...meh. Wasn't that thrilled with the demo, either. EFO, Silver Girl, and RTTG are prob. the only songs I have no problems at all with.

[daniellaaarisen]

TISL fo' shizzle. :nod:

There isn't a Stevie song on SYW that makes me go, "wow, this is among the best stuff she's ever done." TISL is full of those moments- "TISL," "Planets...", "It's Only Love," etc. It's frustrating because there were so many songs with potential on SYW that were completely botched by Lindsey. They seriously should have called in John Shanks to produce.

Couldn't agree more. Her only track that I truly love on SYW is "Thrown Down" and on TISL, I ADORE the first four tracks plus "Love Is," "It's Only Love," "Fall From Grace"....

[Meowi]

Neither win for me.
TISL: Love is
SYW: Bleed to love her
:shrug:

[StandbackStevie]

I truely love both albums myself my highlights from each or my favorites are

Trouble In Shangria-La Album:

Sorcerer
Planets of the Universe
Trouble In Shangri-La
Bombay Sapphires
Everyday
Candlebright
Fall From Grace
Love Is
--------------------------------------------------
Say You Will Album:

Illume
Thrown Down
Destiny Rules
Say You Will
Goodbye Baby
Everybody Finds Out
Silver Girl
Smile At You
Running Through The Garden

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I think all of Stevie's songs on Say You Will are awesome love both cd's very much

[mitzo]

To me TISL is a random collection of near-hits and real misses with very uneven production quality. The songs and the styles are all over the place and few of them manage to highlight the themes of the songs or her vocal abilities. I like some tracks well enough, but when I first got the album I worked to appreciate a lot of it. I think Sheryl Crow was a mistake, she left Stevie bellowing and growling in the wrong places on Sorcerer, Candlebright. She seems to have been trying to put a stripped-down Landslide spin on some of the songs to highlight Stevie's voice and it didn't work. Other tracks are either dull or generic, with exceptions like I Miss You, TISL, Fall from Grace, and Love Is (so beautiful, I wish she'd worked with Sarah throughout). SYW is to me Stevie's best since way way back. I hear her tearing into most of her songs with a vengeance, and Lindsey's complex production on some tracks is to me delicious - I kept listening over and over to savour some of the details of the instrumentation, layering of sounds and vocals, real atmosphere shines from most of the songs. How could anyone resist quirky strange dark stuff like Illume, the floating anger and despair of Smile at You, the straight at you chug chug chug of SYW, the sardonic full-throttle roar of Everybody Finds Out, the resigned sadness of Destiny Rules (like a shrug of resignation put to music), the runaway train chorus of self revelation of Running Through the Garden, the deep depressed whisper of a memory that is Goodbye Baby? Her best since Tusk, and a lot of it has to do with Lindsey's help, IMO. SYW is complex and sophisticated, TISL is Stevie trying to imitate herself with clued-out hired help.

[DestinyRules]

I'm going with Trouble in Shangri-la.

As much as I *love* "Destiny Rules" and "Everybody Finds Out", I can't get past Stevie's AWFUL "Silver Hurl" er, I mean "Silver Girl."

"Trouble in Shangri-la", "Candlebright", "Sorcerer", "Planets Of The Universe", "It's Only Love" and "Fall From Grace" (ESPECIALLY "Fall From Grace") are outstanding on TISL. "Too Far From Texas" is solid. On Say You Will, "Destiny Rules" and "Everybody Finds Out" outstanding. "Say You Will", "Running Through The Garden", "Thrown Down" and "Smile At You" are solid. "Illume" is just bad and "Silver Girl" is dreck. The worst songs on TISL are below average IMO.

[Jondalar]

To me TISL is a random collection of near-hits and real misses with very uneven production quality. The songs and the styles are all over the place and few of them manage to highlight the themes of the songs or her vocal abilities. I like some tracks well enough, but when I first got the album I worked to appreciate a lot of it. I think Sheryl Crow was a mistake, she left Stevie bellowing and growling in the wrong places on Sorcerer, Candlebright. She seems to have been trying to put a stripped-down Landslide spin on some of the songs to highlight Stevie's voice and it didn't work. Other tracks are either dull or generic, with exceptions like I Miss You, TISL, Fall from Grace, and Love Is (so beautiful, I wish she'd worked with Sarah throughout). SYW is to me Stevie's best since way way back. I hear her tearing into most of her songs with a vengeance, and Lindsey's complex production on some tracks is to me delicious - I kept listening over and over to savour some of the details of the instrumentation, layering of sounds and vocals, real atmosphere shines from most of the songs. How could anyone resist quirky strange dark stuff like Illume, the floating anger and despair of Smile at You, the straight at you chug chug chug of SYW, the sardonic full-throttle roar of Everybody Finds Out, the resigned sadness of Destiny Rules (like a shrug of resignation put to music), the runaway train chorus of self revelation of Running Through the Garden, the deep depressed whisper of a memory that is Goodbye Baby? Her best since Tusk, and a lot of it has to do with Lindsey's help, IMO. SYW is complex and sophisticated, TISL is Stevie trying to imitate herself with clued-out hired help.

(If you guys like more songs from TISL than Say You Will that is probably because TISL had four more tracks. I mean if your judging that way.)

I agree with a lot of this. At least, SYW had some really creative songs that I was not expecting. Illume & Thrown Down (althought I hate what she did to the lyrics.) Smile at You was a triumph. Her voice sounded great and that was very worked out song. Lindsey finally got that song to work. I like Destiny Rules and Say You Will. Running through the Garden and Everybody Finds Out are decent.

I think John Shanks should of produced TISL. He did the best job and I thought Crow made a huge mistake with Candlebright using Mandolins.

[markolas]

(If you guys like more songs from TISL than Say You Will that is probably because TISL had four more tracks. I mean if your judging that way.)

No, it's b/c I don't think most of her SYW songs are very good.

Also, I like mandolins. :)

[APerfectLie]

I still don't get the hate for Silver Girl. Nor do I get the hate for Smile At You... it is practically lyrically the same as it was in the early 80's and her vocal is rather good. I have to say I like her contributions to SYW more than TISL. Not that I don't love TISL, I do, but there are some songs on TISL that I don't love. It's Only Love and Everyday aren't my favorites. Maybe because she didn't write them or maybe they are just less than stellar songs. I do however enjoy Too Far From Texas and also the infamous That Made Me Stronger. Her TISL songs are much more atmospheric, but I think her SYW songs rock more and step away from the typical Stevie Nicks. The only song on SYW that I don't love is the song SYW itself. It is a good song, but it is way too commercial sounding.

[Artemis]

Right. Now that I have my wits about me. I'll go in detail.

For me, TISL > Stevie's contributions on SYW. But only just.

Each of them has one total dud, for me. I Miss You, and Silver Girl.

For me, TISL-Candlebright-Sorcerer-Planets-Everyday is one of the strongest 5 song runs on a Stevie solo album, period. The title track still gives me goosebumps, she does Candlebright and Planets justice, I love the falsettos in Sorcerer, and I just love Every Day. I don't care that Stevie didn't write it, or that it's adult contemporary, I love it.

Too Far From Texas isn't fabulous, but it's not as bad as some album filler from... say, Rock A Little, and it's certainly better than half of OSOTM. That Made Me Stronger is an ode to Stevie... by Stevie, but that's why I think it's fabulous, who else could write such narcissism? :laugh:

It's Only Love is fantastic, and Love Changes is one of my favourites on the album. I really love how she tried something different and a little out of her comfort zone.

I don't really like I Miss You, it just sounds bland.

Bombay Sapphires - I adore this one. Macy Gray singing backup was a genius move, in my opinion, she adds so much to that chorus.

Fall From Grace - one of Stevie's best rocking songs, love the energy in this one.

Love Is - I didn't like it much at first, but, it's grown on me, and those backing vocals are just gorgeous.

All in all, I Miss You is the only song on TISL that I can't tolerate, and the others are either fabulous or so-so. :laugh:

Now, Say You Will.

Illume and Thrown Down are great songs, I think they're both produced awesomely, I like her vocals on both.

Say You Will... eh. I think Stevie tried to do a Christine-type song and it just didn't really work for me. I loathe the children singing at the end, such an unnecessary addition.

Smile At You - Right. I love the verses, and her vocals on the verses. But, this "should have turned away and ran / as fast as I can" rubbish for a chorus, with the "aaah aaaahs" ... no. Hideous production, not a fan of that at all.

Running Through The Garden - I don't see why this isn't more loved. It's her best rock song with the Mac since Mirage, probably. Lindsey's guitar is awesome, and I think she sounds really passionate on this one.

Silver Girl - "Immersed with a hardcore world" Really, Stevie? Ew. Although, I'll give her this, the chorus is actually pretty awesome, and I love the production on that. The verses are just hideously vile.

Everybody Finds Out - Again, love this one. Her vocals sound full of energy and anger, and I love the string(?) section, it's wonderful.

Destiny Rules - The most frustrating song on the album! The lyrics are great, and the production is fantastic... but her vocal is so boring. I loved this song live, it was just a huge improvement. I love the song, but not Zombie-Stevie.

Goodbye Baby - Loved her softer vocals on this one, and a nice way to close the album.

All in all on SYW, Stevie has some amazing songs, and her lyrics are pretty great, but sometimes they suffer from bad production or a lifeless, uninspired vocal.

That's why, for me, TISL just edges out SYW.

[jwd]

Destiny Rules - The most frustrating song on the album! The lyrics are great, and the production is fantastic... but her vocal is so boring. I loved this song live, it was just a huge improvement. I love the song, but not Zombie-Stevie.


From what I've read and feel about this song, this is the consensus. Would've been my favorite of hers from SYW if it weren't for the uninspired vocals.

[TheWildHeart67]

I actually LOVE both albums.
The only song I don't like is "Come" on SYW.

[Villavic]

Both albums have major flaws, but both also have some great tunes.

Initially, I would lean toward Say You Will due to it being Fleetwood Mac and not just "studio cats" making the music. (How can you top John McVie's bass work on "Smile At You"?? That's right, you can't!) After hearing Richard Ashcroft's "New York", Stevie's "Illume" dropped a few notches on my list...they're almost identical, but Ashcroft's was released considerably earlier. If it weren't for the first two lines of "Destiny Rules", that was in the running for my favorite Stevie tune on the album...but, jeez, those first two lines just ruin the rest of the song. She sounds like Johnny friggin' Cash on those...and not in a GOOD way.

But, as far as Stevie Nicks solo albums, TISL, to me, is her best album through & through.

I have a couple of tweaks that would've made it better (for ME, that is):

add "Touched By An Angel" & "Thrown Down" (what has heretofore been referred to as the "wall of sound" version) and toss "Too Far From Texas" off the album and onto a single B-side.

I've never been a strong fan of Stevie's solo albums, so I voted for SYW, but I admit it's my least favorite FM album (where L&S are). Actually it's not that I like it much more than TISL.

But I find chiliD's opinions very interesting. They always were, I miss him.

[Macfan4life]

TISRL sucks. Comparing it to SYW is insulting. Even the people that don't care for SYW I think would say it was creative in many ways. TISRL has zero creativity. Its all very safe, same beat, same studio musicians, same tempo on almost every song. Sheryl was trying to create some sort of sterile pop masterpiece which flopped IMHO. Like Tusk, SYW took many chances. TISRL took none.
Planets is a bad version of the demo. NO creativity what so ever. There are 2 or 3 good songs but IMHO Street Angel is better than this one.