Underrated in FM?

[peer_gynt10]

Now I don't know if this has been discussed before and, if so, please accept my apologies. But don't you all think that Stevie's contributions to FM have been horribly underrated over the years? And I'm not talking about the album reviews in Rolling Stone that always criticized her contributions. Why has she always been the one to be represented with the least amount of songs on each album? I suppose that neither she nor Lindsey were accepted as full members during the recording of what is known as The White Album, but when it came to Rumours, it's not like Mick took Christine aside on a parking lot telling her that they needed to delete "Oh Daddy" in order to make room for "Silver Springs". And why did she only get three songs on Mirage and TITN? Solo career or not, she was a prolific writer and would always send her demos to the band when they were in the studio.

[CADreaming]

Let the Lindsey-bashing begin...

[vivfox]

Many people have said that with Stevie, less is more.

Although I agree with you.

Probably because she didn't technically play an instrument on Chris or Lindsey's songs.

I know I'm in the minority here, but I love Stevie's piano playing.

[baboles]

Probably because she didn't technically play an instrument on Chris or Lindsey's songs.


Very true. There could be many reasons, but I agree with the whole 'less is more' vibe. She still managed to crank out some of FM's biggest hits though.

[peer_gynt10]

Let the Lindsey-bashing begin...

Oh no! I never meant this to be an anti-Lindsey statement. :eek: Do you honestly think that he's to blame?

[louielouie2000]

I've always felt Stevie was under-represented within Fleetwood Mac, too. I've always boiled it down to band politics, though. Stevie was probably the most prolific songwriter of the lot, but most of her songs were airy fairy gibberish garbage... and thus she probably lost credibility because of that. Add that to the fact she played no instruments, and that's why she wasn't taken very seriously by the likes of Christine and Lindsey. Compound these attributes with the always tenuous relationship with Lindsey, who was in many ways the musical director of the band and Stevie's crutch, and we start to see why Stevie didn't get much air time. I think Christine and Lindsey respected one another greatly as musicians, even though the way they approached their crafts was so different. They just naturally energized each other, and bounced ideas and energy off one another. In contrast, it was probably a creative drain to work with Stevie, since she played no instruments and has no real musical knowledge. Her product was so raw, that the band members spent large amounts of time fashioning it into a useable product. Hence why she didn't get much airtime on Mac albums.

[SapphireSister]

Are you guys joking? Stevie is obviously the STAR of the band! I mean, she's the "lead singer" lol. Without her, they are nothing today. I say this all in jest of course :p.

Seriously though, coming from a hard-core fan perspective as we do then yes, she may be a bit underrated but for the rest of the world that statement is totally false. If you took a poll and asked people to name a singer in FM it's a guarantee Stevie's gonna win. IThat to me does not fall under the category of "underrated". She's just the most famous I guess...

[TerraRhiannon]

What Sapphire said. If I asked 10 people on the streets to name a member from Fleetwoodmac, 15/10 of them will say Stevie.:nod:

[GoldDustOrphan]

Stevie does play piano, obviously not as well as Chris, but according to several interviews with Stevie, she is playing piano on "Sara," although she is uncredited.

[bluefox4000]

Are you guys joking? Stevie is obviously the STAR of the band! I mean, she's the "lead singer" lol. Without her, they are nothing today. I say this all in jest of course :p.

Seriously though, coming from a hard-core fan perspective as we do then yes, she may be a bit underrated but for the rest of the world that statement is totally false. If you took a poll and asked people to name a singer in FM it's a guarantee Stevie's gonna win. IThat to me does not fall under the category of "underrated". She's just the most famous I guess...

I third this:nod:

Mick

[fringed n fab]

Are you guys joking? Stevie is obviously the STAR of the band! I mean, she's the "lead singer" lol. Without her, they are nothing today. I say this all in jest of course :p.

Seriously though, coming from a hard-core fan perspective as we do then yes, she may be a bit underrated but for the rest of the world that statement is totally false. If you took a poll and asked people to name a singer in FM it's a guarantee Stevie's gonna win. IThat to me does not fall under the category of "underrated". She's just the most famous I guess...

Isn't this the truth though. :nod: And it makes the Stevie-bashers squirm in their seats over it.

[bluefox4000]

Why does there have to be camps......can't we all just get along:distress:

ok hippie moment over:lol:

Mick

[fringed n fab]

Pay no attention to me, I appreciate the board as a whole really. I'm not one trying to dice everyone up into isolated little camps or cliques lately in some sort of juvenile fun. I talk to anyone on these boards and that's the way things should be. Whatever it is people end up doing though, I don't care because I'll continue to post anyway if there's something I want to contribute or share.

[David]

But don't you all think that Stevie's contributions to FM have been horribly underrated over the years? I don't think so. Good heavens, no.

[louielouie2000]

Are you guys joking? Stevie is obviously the STAR of the band! I mean, she's the "lead singer" lol. Without her, they are nothing today. I say this all in jest of course :p.

That's kind of the irony of it all, isn't it? Stevie got them back onstage... live Mac shows were all about Stevie Nicks.

[APerfectLie]

Many people have said that with Stevie, less is more.

Although I agree with you.

Probably because she didn't technically play an instrument on Chris or Lindsey's songs.

I know I'm in the minority here, but I love Stevie's piano playing.

It seems like this would mean they would do more of her songs. If you think about it, Lindsey and Chris had a lot of involvement in Stevie's songs, and her songs became their songs because the entire band had to contribute. However, Stevie was neglected and only used for backing vocals for Lindsey's and Christine's songs. So to me it seems like they would use more of Stevie's songs so that way they would be more of a collaborative effort. That being said, I do think band politics and jealousy were the reason Stevie seemed to get the sham. Stevie was the one who got the most attention from the fans and media, why let her get all the songs too? And also, her songs are usually longer than Christine's or Lindsey's. That being said tho, even if you add up the time each one got in time per album, Stevie still gets shafted except for on Tusk.

[CADreaming]

Oh no! I never meant this to be an anti-Lindsey statement. :eek: Do you honestly think that he's to blame?

No, I don't think he's to blame but a lot of Stevie fans think that. Perpetuating drama...

I've always boiled it down to band politics, though. Stevie was probably the most prolific songwriter of the lot, but most of her songs were airy fairy gibberish garbage... and thus she probably lost credibility because of that. Add that to the fact she played no instruments, and that's why she wasn't taken very seriously by the likes of Christine and Lindsey. Compound these attributes with the always tenuous relationship with Lindsey, who was in many ways the musical director of the band and Stevie's crutch, and we start to see why Stevie didn't get much air time. I think Christine and Lindsey respected one another greatly as musicians, even though the way they approached their crafts was so different. They just naturally energized each other, and bounced ideas and energy off one another. In contrast, it was probably a creative drain to work with Stevie, since she played no instruments and has no real musical knowledge. Her product was so raw, that the band members spent large amounts of time fashioning it into a useable product. Hence why she didn't get much airtime on Mac albums.

Louie, both Christine and Lindsey have expressed an affinity for Stevie's songwriting and even her style of composing being "simple" - it actually gave them a lot of wiggle room - musicians love that. I think as a producer and member of the band, Lindsey would vote in her songs that he felt would best enhance the project. It's not like he didn't know what he was getting.

In the end, if Stevie's (and the other two songwriters) management was on the ball they would insist their client would have a certain number of songs on each FM album.

[baboles]

In some ways I believe Stevie didn't mind only having a couple songs on the first two records. She was just happy being a part of the band. She could come and go as she pleased and did her job when they needed her present. But eventually she needed another outlet for her other songs, which led to Bella Donna.

[jellyman10]

In some ways I believe Stevie didn't mind only having a couple songs on the first two records. She was just happy being a part of the band. She could come and go as she pleased and did her job when they needed her present. But eventually she needed another outlet for her other songs, which led to Bella Donna.

This is my hunch as well. I remember her saying once that she would have done anything, been a gopher or a secretary or anything, just to be with those people.

So yeh, I also feel it was a gradual feeling of there not being the outlet that she would have had if it had just stayed her and Lindsey. Clearly there were also people around her whose business interests in how many units she could sell on her own coincided with certain other events - by which I mean that if Mick hadn't taken her best friend away from her, she wouldn't have given Paul Fishkin and Danny Goldberg a five-album solo contract. (I tend to think losing Sara hurt SN much more than losing Mick!)

Seem to have got a bit OT there, soz!

[fairydust75]

It always seems to me that Lindsey worked it out so that he was on every song as much as possible. His duets with Christine, Hold Me and World Turning were not originally meant to be duets but Christine songs. I have always wondered why Stevie and Christine didn't sing together more often, I suspect Lindsey discouraged it. Stevie has said that when Lindsey was happy everybody was happy, so to keep what little peace they had the rest of the band let Lindsey have his way. Lindsey is a great guitarist, singer and producer, but Fleetwood Mac needed an outside producer to balance out the three distinctive sounds.

[priestofnothing]

In some ways I believe Stevie didn't mind only having a couple songs on the first two records. She was just happy being a part of the band. She could come and go as she pleased and did her job when they needed her present. But eventually she needed another outlet for her other songs, which led to Bella Donna.

I totally agree with this statement, but in addition, I believe that Mick and the rest of the band also did not want to become Stevie's backup band, so that they would become or be known as Stevie Nicks & Fleetwood Mac, kinda like Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers or Bruce Springsteen & the East Street Band.... so they limited her input as a way of keeping her in line and not being 100% in the spotlight....

[peer_gynt10]

Stevie Nicks & Fleetwood Mac, kinda like Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers or Bruce Springsteen & the East Street Band....

That's hilarious!! :laugh:

[CADreaming]

It always seems to me that Lindsey worked it out so that he was on every song as much as possible. His duets with Christine, Hold Me and World Turning were not originally meant to be duets but Christine songs. I have always wondered why Stevie and Christine didn't sing together more often, I suspect Lindsey discouraged it. Stevie has said that when Lindsey was happy everybody was happy, so to keep what little peace they had the rest of the band let Lindsey have his way. Lindsey is a great guitarist, singer and producer, but Fleetwood Mac needed an outside producer to balance out the three distinctive sounds.

There weren't any duets. There were harmonies and they all worked out those parts. Stevie wasn't around even by her own admission for the majority of recording for Tango in the Night. Lindsey had to compensate for her vocals however possible.

Fleetwood Mac also had Richard Dashut, Ken Caillat, Keith Olsen (White Album), and other band members who I am sure all voiced their opinions on their sound.

[David]

His duets with Christine, Hold Me and World Turning were not originally meant to be duets but Christine songs.I don't think that's true about "World Turning." I think Lindsey & Chris wrote that specifically to be a blues rock two-singer production & to provide the band with a newly written concert muscle-flexer. The very backbone of the song is Buckingham's Travis-like riff.

I have always wondered why Stevie and Christine didn't sing together more often, I suspect Lindsey discouraged it. What prevented those two from singing more together on "Behind the Mask" or any of their numerous solo projects? I don't think there was very keen interest from one party or the other, or perhaps there's the old cliche "the time was never right."

[michelej1]

It always seems to me that Lindsey worked it out so that he was on every song as much as possible. His duets with Christine, Hold Me and World Turning were not originally meant to be duets but Christine songs. I have always wondered why Stevie and Christine didn't sing together more often, I suspect Lindsey discouraged it. Stevie has said that when Lindsey was happy everybody was happy, so to keep what little peace they had the rest of the band let Lindsey have his way. Lindsey is a great guitarist, singer and producer, but Fleetwood Mac needed an outside producer to balance out the three distinctive sounds.

If Lindsey ever bogarted himself onto their songs, I don't think it was as a vocalist. Instrumentally, yeah maybe YMLF, Rhiannon and SOTM had some extra guitar action, but I I don't think he was sitting there just dying to sing on Hold Me, Think About Me , Don't Stop or Crystal. In fact, Stevie once said she had to drag Lindsey to go and sing on Christine's songs, because she refused not to have singing. She acted like the harmonizing was more her idea than anyone else's.

Yeah, when I really love something that she [Christine] does, I really get in there and help her with it. She can do it alone, she really doesn’t need anyone, but when she writes something that I really take to heart, then I go for it. I stay up all night with her and we work on it. I really work on it and I drag Lindsey and her in there and make them sing, because that’s what they forget—they forget that there’s three of us and how good we sing. I irritate them to death, it’s like a little bug. I keep saying, "Lindsey, you and I should sing this part. It’s important that we sing this part, it would sound terrific." And they eventually do it. Especially because I am not going to stand by and watch no singing go on this album.


Then, based on that one mention when they're high in the limo talking about Lindsey singing on Hold Me and Stevie telling Christine that "it's over" if she has Lindsey sing on another one of her songs, I think that Stevie thought the vocals were fully Christine's idea. I think when you have men and women in a band, it's just natural to have one singer from both sexes trade lyrics. It's just following an historic trend.

I don't think Lindsey would have to sit around trying to devise ways for Straight Back never to happen again. The boy/girl thing is just more natural and organic.

Michele

[michelej1]

Mick LaSalle on Stevie Nicks, Gallery of the Underrated, San Francisco Chronicle [she is listed 45 of 50 underrated celebs]

http://blog.sfgate.com/mlasalle/2011/12/23/gallery-of-the-underrated/#1945-45

Stevie Nicks: When I was a teenager photos like the one above would make my jaw drop, and I'd just stare with devouring lust. Stevie Nicks looked like what everyone wanted their girlfriend to look like in 1976. But as a result of being so pretty, she was always written about as the lightweight of Fleetwood Mac. Lightweight? She was the best songwriter by far and put the others in the shade. (Getty Images)

[Silver Springs]

I'm probably going to receive a verbal backlash for this, but am I the only one who thinks Stevie is kind of, well...overrated? The people talk about Fleetwood Mac most of the time, you'd think she was the only member. John and Mick deserve the Lion's share of the rating because of the sheer fact that the band wouldn't even exist without them. Just because she's at the forefront of the stage, doesn't mean she's the "highlight" of the show. People forget those in the back who, nine times out of ten, contribute a hell of a lot more to the overall musical "recipe" than those in the limelight do.

[bluefox4000]

I'm probably going to receive a verbal backlash for this, but am I the only one who thinks Stevie is kind of, well...overrated? The people talk about Fleetwood Mac most of the time, you'd think she was the only member. John and Mick deserve the Lion's share of the rating because of the sheer fact that the band wouldn't even exist without them. Just because she's at the forefront of the stage, doesn't mean she's the "highlight" of the show. People forget those in the back who, nine times out of ten, contribute a hell of a lot more to the overall musical "recipe" than those in the limelight do.

I do. Before i got fully into FM. she was ALL i ever heard about. You'd think she WAS FM. i suppose in the public's mind......she is.

So i agree. But i suppose you're thinking.......Of course YOU would, Mick. lol

Mick

[beccamorrisfift]

Mick LaSalle on Stevie Nicks, Gallery of the Underrated, San Francisco Chronicle [she is listed 45 of 50 underrated celebs]

http://blog.sfgate.com/mlasalle/2011/12/23/gallery-of-the-underrated/#1945-45

Stevie Nicks: When I was a teenager photos like the one above would make my jaw drop, and I'd just stare with devouring lust. Stevie Nicks looked like what everyone wanted their girlfriend to look like in 1976. But as a result of being so pretty, she was always written about as the lightweight of Fleetwood Mac. Lightweight? She was the best songwriter by far and put the others in the shade. (Getty Images)

My eyes popped out of their sockets when I saw that Anne Heche was included in this list! :laugh:

I personally think John is the most under rated, he's so cool.

[GoldDustGypsy]

I'm probably going to receive a verbal backlash for this, but am I the only one who thinks Stevie is kind of, well...overrated? The people talk about Fleetwood Mac most of the time, you'd think she was the only member. John and Mick deserve the Lion's share of the rating because of the sheer fact that the band wouldn't even exist without them. Just because she's at the forefront of the stage, doesn't mean she's the "highlight" of the show. People forget those in the back who, nine times out of ten, contribute a hell of a lot more to the overall musical "recipe" than those in the limelight do.

I don't think Stevie is overrated.... I just think the rest of the band is underrated. I don't think that Stevie should be talked about less or given less credit, just that the others should receive more.

:thumbsup:

[jellyman10]

From my perspective (British, age 47), I'd say that FM as a whole are underrated, and that over the last decade or so, whenever someone drags them up in order to point out that they were/are actually quite good, what they do is point to 'Tusk' and get all wet-knickered about LB, so I don't agree that Stevie gets more than her fair share of artistic credit for her talent. Attention isn't credit.

[vivfox]

Bee, Stevie is the best looking member and that is why she gets the most attention. You already knew that. The best looking people everywhere in life get the most attention from those around them. I see that all the time.

[STEVEHEDRICK]

stevie is the star and always has been look at tickets sales stevie does very well and lindsay does not!

[tabruns]

All member of Fleetwood Mac deserve a lot of credit. They're five exceptionally talented individuals and when they're "on" they're amazing (Rumours, Tusk).

Stevie's clearly the star and she always has been. I think it simply has a lot to do with charisma. Stevie's got it, in spades. She's a people magnet.

I've always wondered as well why Mac albums generally broke down 5 Lindsey, 4 Christine and 3 Stevie songs. I just figured its mainly because:

- Lindsey is the producer
- Stevie's songs need to be worked out
- Stevie's songs are longer
- Stevie tended to not be in the studio unless she was needed

All of this added up the usual "Mac balance". Plus, although Stevie is clearly the star and she had some great hits with Mac, really Christine wrote most of the Mac's hits if you're counting sheer numbers. Still, when gems like "Secret Love" went unrecorded it does seem like Mac missed some opportunities by limiting Stevie to 3 songs per album.

[jcalzaretta]

Stevie did typically get least number of songs but they are generally longer. On Tusk, she had 5 of 20, but I think her songs were so long, there was actually more of her singing on Tusk than Lindsey, whose songs were shorter.

[On Ice]

I think Fleetwood Mac missed some golden opportunities especially in the early days by limiting Stevie's input. The white album, although stellar, would have been even more so if they had recorded a couple more Stevie rockers to balance out the sometimes overly mello vibe. Particularly Sorcerer, Farewell Failure and You Won't Forget Me would have been awesome Mac songs and surely would be on the classic list. I'm also in the camp that Silver Springs should have been on Rumours side one and Songbird the closer on side two. I also think they gave up too soon on Think About It and Planets of the Universe. Although it was harder to get more songs onto an LP, some clever editing would have easily brought more Stevie onto these albums. The balance was better on Tusk but Mirage and Tango both missed amazing Stevie opportunities as we've seen with Smile at You, If you Were My Love and Joan of Arc. Not sure of all the reasons, but certainly there were enough Stevie hidden classics that absolutely should have been on these albums without question. But who are we to say, we're just the ones listening to the music. ;)

[Artemis]

I think Fleetwood Mac missed some golden opportunities especially in the early days by limiting Stevie's input. The white album, although stellar, would have been even more so if they had recorded a couple more Stevie rockers to balance out the sometimes overly mello vibe. Particularly Sorcerer, Farewell Failure and You Won't Forget Me would have been awesome Mac songs and surely would be on the classic list. I'm also in the camp that Silver Springs should have been on Rumours side one and Songbird the closer on side two. I also think they gave up too soon on Think About It and Planets of the Universe. Although it was harder to get more songs onto an LP, some clever editing would have easily brought more Stevie onto these albums. The balance was better on Tusk but Mirage and Tango both missed amazing Stevie opportunities as we've seen with Smile at You, If you Were My Love and Joan of Arc. Not sure of all the reasons, but certainly there were enough Stevie hidden classics that absolutely should have been on these albums without question. But who are we to say, we're just the ones listening to the music. ;)

Definitely agree with Mirage and Tango needing more Stevie. Mirage would have been a much stronger album if two Lindsey songs (I think he's the weakest one on Mirage) were ditched in favour of Smile At You and If You Were My Love, for sure.

As for Tango... Stevie just frustrates me in general on that album. Her contributions are just so... blech. Juliet and Joan of Arc would have worked so much better than WTTR...S, at least.

Also, I think I read somewhere that Sorcerer was almost going to be on the white album, but, Rhiannon made it instead... why not both?

Although, if Silver Springs is included, Stevie is all over Rumours. She's the dominant vocalist on that album in a way she isn't on any of the others.

[krrrby]

If Stevie hadn't been restricted to 2-3 songs per album and had more songs than both Lindsey and Christine combined...she probably wouldn't have ever made a solo record.

Instead, she was restricted to a number of songs granted the other two had more songs than her if they were to ever divide it evenly...

But I think Stevie is content with the fact that her solo career did fine and she was able to have the extra outlet to release songs and only have a couple for a mac album.

She knows very well that 2-3 songs on a Mac record will give her more money than a solo career ever will because she's most recognized with her band...hence why she says, "Never break up with your band"

[vivfox]

stevie is the star and always has been look at tickets sales stevie does very well and lindsay does not!


Are you talking about Lohan?

[AliceLover]

To be honest, I love the woman to death, but if anything...shes overrated. Sure she has cranked out an outrageous number of awesome songs, but I don't think anyone else will ever come along like Lindsey Buckingham. His production, craft, style, and genius like guitar skills will never be replicated or outdone. JMO

[David]

But don't you all think that Stevie's contributions to FM have been horribly underrated over the years?No. It's impossible. She has more fans than all the other members combined.

[David]

I'm also in the camp that Silver Springs should have been on Rumours side one and Songbird the closer on side two. Nothing in my universe feels more absolutely right to me than the Welsh witch howls that permeate the fade-out of "Gold Dust Woman"--& end the album.

[WildHearted]

I don't think she's underrated by the general public - she is, without a doubt, the most popular member of FM - but she certainly is/has been by critics in the past.

[mikephxaz]

I have never bought the arguement that Stevie was too airy, fairy to be taken seriously... for every one - Welcome To The Room, Sara = there's two - Family Man - Stevie's delving into the "hippy chick" stuff is not compariable to Lindsey's over produced gimmicks

[poetinmyheart]

Why does there have to be camps......can't we all just get along:distress:

ok hippie moment over:lol:

Mick

I wish we could all get along like we used to in middle school... I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy... :laugh:

Sorry, I watched Mean Girls earlier lol

[tabruns]

The balance was better on Tusk

You're not the first person to say this but frankly I don't understand it. To me the balance on Tusk was *worse* because technically Stevie should have had SIX songs on Tusk (matching her "3 per album" quota) and she only had five. Tusk was the album where I felt she was short-changed.

[PenguinHead]

Nothing in my universe feels more absolutely right to me than the Welsh witch howls that permeate the fade-out of "Gold Dust Woman"--& end the album.

I completely agree with that. Gold Dust Woman is a great closer. Songbird is an obvious choice, but Gold Dust Woman is an inspired choice.

[PolishStevieFan]

I don't think that Stevie has ever been underrated in Fleetwood Mac. Of course some reviews try to criticize her input but on the other hand for the most part these are her songs that have stood the test of time and served as a foundation for Fleetwood Mac's ongoing legacy. Stevie gave the band its only #1 hit single and thanks to her image she made it more popular. Before Stevie's presence in the band, Fleetwood Mac had been more or less obscure ex-blues British group of stellar musicians. Stevie gave them recognizable identity, even if for some people it was kind of itchy/witchy identity. Most people associate Fleetwood Mac with Stevie...Stevie gave them good face:)