The Evil Internet

[Tango]

I was following up a discussion on Don Henley & Mike Campbell's lawsuit over use of the song Boys of Summer and All She Wants To Do Is Dance to make a parody video that was used in a political campaign in California. This blog summarizes a lot of stuff that Stevie Nicks backs as well in her distain for the internet:

http://copyrightsandcampaigns.blogspot.com/2010/08/henley-devore-settle-lawsuit-henley.html

Thursday, August 5, 2010


Henley, DeVore settle lawsuit; Henley rails against remixes and mash-ups, YouTube, 'dark side' of Internet; songs are not 'toys or playthings'

[michelej1]

[Stevie's name is just one in a list, but I think it is related to the reasons why Stevie hates the internet and ties into those frequent comments of hers. ]

Los Angeles Times, November 14, 2012, by Randy Lewis
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/posts/la-et-ms-pandora-congress-irfa-musicians-letter-protest-20121114,0,775927.story

Musicians oppose Pandora radio's effort to cut payments

More than 100 pop, rock, R&B, country and hip-hop musicians are protesting Pandora radio’s efforts to persuade Congress to reduce the fees the Internet radio service pays for playing their music, arguing that the measure would “gut the royalties that thousands of musicians rely upon.”

Katy Perry, Britney Spears, the Dead Kennedys, Jackson Browne, Don Henley, Cee Lo Green, the Jazz Crusaders and Ne-Yo are among 127 musicians who have signed an open letter to be published this week in Billboard that applauds Pandora for its success but criticizes its push for Congress to pass the Internet Radio Fairness Act (H.R. 6480 and S. 3609).

“We are big fans of Pandora,” the letter states. “That’s why we helped give the company a discount on rates for the past decade. Pandora is now enjoying phenomenal success as a Wall Street company. Skyrocketing growth in revenues and users. At the same time, the music community is just now beginning to gain a footing in this new digital world.

“Pandora’s principal asset is the music,” the letter continues. “Why is the company asking Congress once again to step in and gut the royalties that thousands of musicians rely upon? That’s not fair and that’s not how partners work together.”

Pandora officials have said a reduction in fees paid by Internet radio services is necessary to keep them competitive with broadcast radio. IRFA is described on Pandora’s website as “An important piece of legislation… to help end the long-standing discrimination against Internet radio.

“Today, the discrimination is extraordinary. In 2011, Pandora paid over 50% of revenues in performance royalties, while SiriusXM paid less than 10%,” according to Pandora’s statement. “Internet radio brings millions of listeners back to music, plays the songs of tens of thousands of promising working artists, enabling them to build their audience while receiving fair compensation.”

Other musicians who have lent their names to the protest effort include David Crosby, Missy Elliot, Sheryl Crow, Keyshia Cole, George Clinton, Stevie Nicks, Jason Mraz, Pink Floyd, Bonnie Raitt and the Zac Brown Band.

The musicians’ group, musicFIRST, has launched a website of its own, outlining its position. The group also has the backing of the Screen Actors Guild-American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (SAG-AFTRA), the AFL-CIO, the NAACP and the Recording Academy.

A letter from the Recording Academy opposing passage of IRFA argues that “the bill claims to create fairness but fails to address the real inequity that while Internet radio services properly pay creators, terrestrial radio pays nothing… Radio broadcasters are the only business in America that can use another’s intellectual property without permission or compensation.”

Pandora also has taken heat recently after Securities and Exchange Commission filings revealed the salaries, bonuses, stock options and other compensation for its top executives. For fiscal 2012, Chief Executive Joseph Kennedy received $732,000, Chief Marketing Officer Thomas Conrad received nearly $3.4 million and Chief Revenue Officer John Trimble was listed for total compensation of more than $4.5 million.

Update at 1:58 p.m.: The Internet Radio Fairness Coalition (IFRC) issued a statement Wednesday in response to the musicFIRST open letter: “The Internet Radio Fairness Coalition believes that we and the artists all want the same thing — a growing Internet radio industry that helps artists. The Internet Radio Fairness Act will help accomplish that goal.

“We respect the artists’ concerns and are willing to work with them through the legislative process," the statement continued, "to create a healthy, sustainable, growing Internet radio business that benefits them as well as labels, distributors and consumers.”

An IFRC spokeswoman added: "The Internet Radio Fairness Act does not address any exact royalty rates at all. Rather, the bill would allow the Copyright Royalty Board to evaluate internet radio royalty rates under the widely used 801(b) standard instead of the current, misleadingly-named 'willing buyer, willing seller' rate evaluation standard. The IRFA bill does not request or make a recommendation as to what a future rate for internet radio would be."

[Macfanforever]

I think most of the older generation including Stevie does not like the internet.I do understand why Stevie keeps nagging about the internet freeloaders are stealing her music without paying for it.I agree with her on that.I would be pissed too.I know how mush I love computers and the internet.I don't trust the internet to do banking,Pay bills and anything with money involve.The only purchases that I do are concert tix and Ebay transactions through Pay Pal. I already got my email hacked last March and send out embarrassing spam emails to everybody in my addy book.

The younger generation love the internet including some artists.Probably some of those artists are saying thank goodness for the internet for being discovered by music biz people and fans and got their break being on the internet.probably YouTube.

On the other hand.record companies got to stop being a money hog and pay the artists for their work.They don't make much on their song writing royalties as years pass along.


The only way to stop what is going on is to shut down the internet.LOL.Thats not going to happen.

[louielouie2000]

This proves just how out of touch many celebs are. I can't even count how many artists I've discovered through Pandora, and subsequently, how many albums I've bought through these discoveries. I've then told friends about these great new artists I've found, then some of them have also gone out and bought albums as well. These artists railing against Pandora had better be careful... Pandora could easily cut them from their programming, and that would impact the artists bottom lines fare more than they might imagine. The internet, specifically sites like Pandora, are how the younger generations are listening to & discovering music. Artists who wage war against sites like Padora are truly endangering their exposure to new fans.

[KindOfWoman90]

This proves just how out of touch many celebs are. I can't even count how many artists I've discovered through Pandora, and subsequently, how many albums I've bought through these discoveries. I've then told friends about these great new artists I've found, then some of them have also gone out and bought albums as well. These artists railing against Pandora had better be careful... Pandora could easily cut them from their programming, and that would impact the artists bottom lines fare more than they might imagine. The internet, specifically sites like Pandora, are how the younger generations are listening to & discovering music. Artists who wage war against sites like Padora are truly endangering their exposure to new fans.

^^ That was so well put! I'm in my 20s, so I feel what many older artists don't understand is that sites like Pandora or Spotify provide them with free advertising, essentially. Same with Facebook or Myspace! In fact, I just found a new duo called North Meets South on YouTube last night. The only reason I found them was because I was listening/watching LB on Youtube, and they had done a really fabulous cover of Go Insane - here's the link if anyone's interested http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xntHstjx7-w&feature=plcp
Well this YouTube video led me to their Facebook page, etc.
While I think piracy is wrong, all artists, young and old, need to understand how the internet is a tool. If they look at it as the enemy, they will only be doing a disservice to themselves!

[UndoingTheLaces]

In fact, I just found a new duo called North Meets South on YouTube last night. The only reason I found them was because I was listening/watching LB on Youtube, and they had done a really fabulous cover of Go Insane - here's the link if anyone's interested http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xntHstjx7-w&feature=plcp
Well this YouTube video led me to their Facebook page, etc.
While I think piracy is wrong, all artists, young and old, need to understand how the internet is a tool. If they look at it as the enemy, they will only be doing a disservice to themselves!


Just out of curiosity, have you purchased any music by North Meets South since discovering them on YouTube?

[KindOfWoman90]

Just out of curiosity, have you purchased any music by North Meets South since discovering them on YouTube?

No, not yet. But, I did just discover them yesterday. When I have time to actually explore them some more, I most definitely will. I don't make impulse music purchases :nod:
I can tell you a list of artists I have discovered online, via Spotify or links from friends, that I have purchased. It doesn't even have to be a new artist actually. Sometimes I'll be listening to some older music on Spotify, but for whatever reason, the mood strikes me to buy some more of their work because Spotify just doesn't satisfy me.

So as far as new artists, I've discovered/purchased music from: Two Door Cinema Club, Rumer (a beautiful voice! she sounds uncannily like Karen Carpenter at times), and Sufjan Stevens. I could go on, but I don't want to bore people :)

An example of Spotify driving me to buy some old music...
The first thing that pops into my mind is Joni Mitchell. I was on a big Joni Mitchell kick this summer. I had been listening to her on Spotify, but then decided I needed more! I bought Ladies of the Canyon on CD - now I can listen wherever I go because it's on my iPod, and when I was back in the states I'd pop it in while I was driving all the time.
Also, and here is an excellent example for this board, the first time I found the BN album in full on YouTube I fell in love. Obviously, we still don't have an official CD or digital version, but I now have two vinyl copies. Plus, Lindsey signed one for me :) (Nothing new, I know he does it a lot, but that made my summer this year!)

Oh! I also bought a bunch of The Who this summer as well! All because I watched this documentary on Netflix. After I watched that I was like, "Why the hell don't I have more of The Who on my iPod?!" lol

Obviously the internet can also work in terms of advertising concerts, which lead to record sales. I was perusing local concerts online, where I found Bad Finger and America would be playing near me. I went to both concerts. I already had America in my music collection, but that led me to actually purchase Bad Finger on iTunes so my dad and I could listen on our drive to the venue :)

[michelej1]

But are the artists really against Pandora or just against the pricing structure?

I see what you're saying though. Even if they are not getting paid the royalties they think are justified, the free advertising and exposure that Pandora offers them more than makes up for it.

Michele

[vivfox]

Bravo KindOfWoman90 for post #7. It was such a pleasure to read and I thank you.

[soul_drifter333]

Some of us that's been around the block has heard all this before. The industry caused a big stink in the early 80's over selling blank cassette tapes. They claimed that people would just record the music and not buy it. Yes this did happen to some degree, but these artist still got mega rich anyway.The same with video blank tapes and CD and DVD-Rs. I'm not saying that these artist shouldn't be paid, but they tend to lose perspective. Something leaves a real bad taste in my mouth when I hear people who are already multimillionaires complaining that they aren't paid enough. It's bad enough that a concert ticket cost hundreds of dollars these days, so there is plenty of money to be made all round. After all, virtually everyone has shared music at some time, even Stevie has said that she made "road tapes" from the radio that she plays backstage at her shows and you can be sure she didn't pay royalties to those artist. I realize that the internet is huge and that there is a lot of sharing going on, but there are still a lot of artist getting rich. Taylor Swift's new CD sold a million copies in the first week! And there are plenty of others doing well too. The music industry is not hurting and the artist that utilize the internet and other virtually free internet resources, like You Tube, can really do well. So please stop complaining artist, you are doing better than most of this country during these tough times.

All this really bothers me because of my love of music and its healing powers and to turn it into pure greed takes away from the joy of it. At least for me.

Just my opinion, and I'm sure that some will disagree. :p

[louielouie2000]

But are the artists really against Pandora or just against the pricing structure?

I see what you're saying though. Even if they are not getting paid the royalties they think are justified, the free advertising and exposure that Pandora offers them more than makes up for it.

Michele

The reason Pandora is trying to restructure their pricing is because apparently they pay several times more per song than satellite radio stations like Sirius do. If anything, artists should be rallying against the satellite radio stations vs Pandora.

[KindOfWoman90]

Bravo KindOfWoman90 for post #7. It was such a pleasure to read and I thank you.

Aw thank you! You're very welcome :) I love music, and I love sharing any and all finds! I can ramble a bit on such things :o



All this really bothers me because of my love of music and its healing powers and to turn it into pure greed takes away from the joy of it. At least for me.

Just my opinion, and I'm sure that some will disagree. :p

^^ I agree with you. It especially bothers me when it comes from an artist I love.

[michelej1]

After all, virtually everyone has shared music at some time, even Stevie has said that she made "road tapes" from the radio that she plays backstage at her shows and you can be sure she didn't pay royalties to those artist.

And that raises a question we've had before: What about the Ipods that Stevie gives troops. Does she buy the music separately for each gift ipod or does she (Karen, her employee or whatever) download one library of music onto all of the different ipods?

Michele

[Macfanforever]

I can take both sides on this topic.

Still today I don't see the difference between recording off the radio and the internet except for a little more cleaner recording. .I've been recording music and shows off the radio for about 37 plus years now. And still doing so.I do remember the artists gripping about cassettes years ago like the movie industry was gripping about VCR's with the Sony Betamax case.they did not get far with them and everyone can timeshift and collect their favorite TV shows for generations to come.

And again I do agree on artists should get paid for their work. But I always like to say how many times they have to get paid for the same job over and over again.

OK how many times do we get paid for doing our jobs.Once a week for us hourly paid and every two weeks for us on salary.We get payed ONCE a week for our work.


I know people should get paid for their work but not get greedy and overpay-ed like they are in the entertainment industry are.

New struggling artists should get payed for their work.They deserve it .

I'm glad and proud that Stevie is still able to tour every year to make up the loss of bucks.


Other artists stay home and sit on their lazy a$$es and whine about everything instead of going out to tour and promoting themselves .

Sooner or later if this radio performance tax gets passed which that will put a clamp on radio stations airplay of artists and most radio stations will be forced to stop playing their music because they cant afford to pay the new performance tax and run a news/talk format instead of playing tunes.How boring for some that will be.We will no longer hear Stevie's and Lindsey's or FM classics on the radio anymore.

I don't listen to Pandora but they should settle the case like other internet radio streamers have and everybody will be happy campers at the end .

[HejiraNYC]

Perhaps it's time to just gut the system and start from scratch again anew. While I do respect songwriters/musicians who create original works of music, I also believe that enough is enough when it comes to "intellectual property" rights, residuals and royalties that are paid in perpetuity forever and ever. Sure, artists deserve to be paid... but why is their compensation structure such that they must continue to be compensated for work that they expended years and decades earlier? A painter doesn't get paid every time a person looks at his/her painting. An author doesn't get paid every time somebody checks out a book from the library. IKEA doesn't get paid every time you sit in one of their chairs. I don't know if there is a better way to structure compensation than what currently exists. But that the same time, I would like to think that musicians who are in this to make music, first and foremost, should not be getting their panties in a knot just because their music is now being introduced to new audiences in a new medium. If anything, they are effectively trying to stifle innovation by making this type of music access prohibitively costly to operate.

Regarding the specific case with Pandora, I tend to agree with Pandora. It is unfair for Pandora to be charged on a pay-for-play basis when terrestrial broadcast radio pays nothing. And musicians cannot make the argument that Pandora somehow increases digital piracy; those digital streams are nowhere even remotely close to the audio quality of a CD. The difference, it seems, is that digital streaming media has become a completely different business model even though it essentially provides the same service as broadcast radio. And it's all due to the fact that lawyers, labels and musicians got wise to a new revenue stream- a new way to make money. If the standard being applied to Pandora was applied across the board to all broadcasting media, music and radio would completely cease to exist; it would be tantamount to the leaves deciding to kill the roots of the tree because they weren't delivering enough water. At some point these artists have to realize that broadcasting media of any sort is essential to the viability of their musical catalogs. Pandora is part of their lifeblood and should not be scapegoated for any drop in musical revenue. I would much rather see artists go after the REAL enemy- monolithic broadcast monopolies like ClearChannel that stifle competition in major radio markets and prevent musical diversity with homogenized, rigid playlists.

[vivfox]

Regarding the specific case with Pandora, I tend to agree with Pandora. It is unfair for Pandora to be charged on a pay-for-play basis when terrestrial broadcast radio pays nothing.

I would much rather see artists go after the REAL enemy- monolithic broadcast monopolies like ClearChannel that stifle competition in major radio markets and prevent musical diversity with homogenized, rigid playlists.


All radio stations pay a royalty fee for each track they play.

Clear Channel morphed into Live Nation some years ago. If you want to "go after" Live Nation, in a sense you'll be attacking the one we love so much; Stevie.

[HejiraNYC]

All radio stations pay a royalty fee for each track they play.

Clear Channel morphed into Live Nation some years ago. If you want to "go after" Live Nation, in a sense you'll be attacking the one we love so much; Stevie.

That's not entirely true. Terrestrial radio only pays royalties to the composer, but not the artist (satellite and digital broadcasters pay both). In addition, the fee structure is much, much different, resulting in terrestrial broadcasters paying a relatively nominal sum.

Also, the opposite happened from what you stated: Clear Channel divested itself of Live Nation, which went on to become a separate company. I'm not sure how Stevie and Live Nation are intimately involved :shrug: other than the fact that she performs in some Live Nation concert venues. The LiveNation-Ticketmaster cartel is another monopoly that seriously needs to be investigated and broken up. It's hard to believe we are a nation of laws playing by the rules when rackets like these are allowed to continue to flout them.

[Macfanforever]

Corp radio stinks.It ruined radio altogether.They play what they want to play.They are crude to their employees .To bad the FCC deregulated the ownership rules for radio.back in time it used to be 7-7-7 then it went up to 12-12-12 to 12-18-18 rule in 1992 and mushroomed later on with more deregulation..The small Ma-Pa Stations are hurting bad due to the music industry rights fees and running their revenues dry.Plus most corporate radio stations are automated voiced tracked Robo run with no live DJ's and have no local feel to them.

Read more info here on ownership rules.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_cross-ownership_in_the_United_States

http://02e1390.netsolhost.com/broadcastownershipreg.html

Clear-Channel is like a Walmart of radio. They want to own everything in the biz.

I do understand how radio works because I've studied the biz for about 33 plus years.Plus have friends in the biz too.


Heres a radio broadcasting forum that I hang out at .Its loaded with in's and outs of everything in radio,TV biz.My screen-name is WPPCProductions.Happy reading.

http://www.radiodiscussions.com/smf/

I just notice the forum is down.Try later.

Clear-Channel owns Premiere Radio which is the top radio syndicator in the country.Plus they own Iheart Radio.


Read more on music royalties and how it works.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royalties


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Radio_Equality_Act

[AncientQueen]

Here is a quote from an article about Mariah Carey from 2002

Lawyer: Mariah Got $49 Million From EMI
Her attorney, Marshall Grossman, told me just a few minutes ago that Mariah was paid $21 million in April 2001 when she signed on with Virgin/EMI Records. In her current separation from the label, she was paid an additional $28 million, Grossman told me.

This money was based on a reported $81.6 million contract Mariah had signed with EMI for four albums. In the end, she was paid $49 million for just one album, Glitter.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,43736,00.html#ixzz2CPpWP7H3

Mariah signed to Geffen and made "We belong together" soon after that.

I don't need to hear any label or artist whine ever again! And don't tell me not to visit sites to listen to some music before I buy it, whatever I do, the shameless debaunchery of the music industry surpasses it.

[starshine]

Some of us that's been around the block has heard all this before. The industry caused a big stink in the early 80's over selling blank cassette tapes. They claimed that people would just record the music and not buy it. Yes this did happen to some degree, but these artist still got mega rich anyway.The same with video blank tapes and CD and DVD-Rs. I'm not saying that these artist shouldn't be paid, but they tend to lose perspective. Something leaves a real bad taste in my mouth when I hear people who are already multimillionaires complaining that they aren't paid enough. It's bad enough that a concert ticket cost hundreds of dollars these days, so there is plenty of money to be made all round. After all, virtually everyone has shared music at some time, even Stevie has said that she made "road tapes" from the radio that she plays backstage at her shows and you can be sure she didn't pay royalties to those artist. I realize that the internet is huge and that there is a lot of sharing going on, but there are still a lot of artist getting rich. Taylor Swift's new CD sold a million copies in the first week! And there are plenty of others doing well too. The music industry is not hurting and the artist that utilize the internet and other virtually free internet resources, like You Tube, can really do well. So please stop complaining artist, you are doing better than most of this country during these tough times.

All this really bothers me because of my love of music and its healing powers and to turn it into pure greed takes away from the joy of it. At least for me.

Just my opinion, and I'm sure that some will disagree. :pI like what you said it makes alot of sense really. I really think Mac/Stevie could use the Net more to there advantage than not but they don't make the best use of it they could since they are from the 'old' school of thinking. which is said really. So I don't feel sorry for them either. Just for us fans thats all cause we lose really. They could but out a wonderful amount of great unrelease stuff but for some reason they choose not to. Oh well it is what it is. Thanks for your thoughts.