DISCUSSION: Christine's songs from Rumours

[MacShadowsBall]

Here's the first discussion thread for Rumours focusing on Christine McVie's songs.

Songs up for discussion...
1. Don't Stop
2. Songbird
3. You Make Loving Fun
4. Oh Daddy
5. The Chain

Since "The Chain" is a true Fleetwood Mac collaboration, it can be discussed in which every threads you feel like. :cool:

Will "Don't Stop" go to Christine or collaboration due to Lindsey's vocals?:shrug:

[nailatixela]

Wow, what a great list of songs.

Don't Stop - Kind of tired of it just because it's been overplayed. But this is obviously an important song in Mac history.

Songbird - I never tire of this one. It's such a beautiful song. Chris has such a great talent for writing simple lyrics that still mean so much at the same time. I think of it as a love song, but there is still something about it that makes me sad.

YMLF - This is one of my favorite mac songs ever. So catchy! Amazing lyrics. "I never did believe in miracles, but I've a feeling it's time to try" I love the luscious "ahhh ahhh ah" harmonies. I can't find any faults with this song.

Oh Daddy - It took a bit but this song has really grown on me. I really like it because it doesn't sound like anything else on the album, so that sets it apart. Besides the fact that musically it sounds awesome, my favorite parts are the background harmonies. "sorrow..."

[tilthefirefades]

Songbird is one of the most beautiful songs ever. So sentimental, and really heartfelt. The Dance is probably my favorite performance of it, especially with her tearing up.

[Artemis]

Although Lindsey sings on Don't Stop, I'd still class it as a Christine song, rather than a collaboration, since only she wrote it.

Anyhoo, my thoughts on each song -

Don't Stop - I used to love the song, it's so fun and upbeat, and really has a positive message. However, now, I LOATHE the song. LOATHE it. I can't listen to it at all. Whenever it comes on shuffle, I cringe and skip it. I think I just overplayed it D=

Songbird - A masterpiece, and I think it's become more popular lately, seeing how many artists cover it. Eva Cassidy has an absolutely gorgeous cover version, which made me appreciate the original so much more. I didn't really care for it before I heard that cover.

You Make Loving Fun - It's one of my favourite songs this month, it's so much fun. It's great fun to sing and dance to (provided no one sees me.)

Oh Daddy - This is Don't Stop in reverse, for me. I hated the song at first, but now, I love it. I love the demo where Stevie's more prominent, but the album version is really stunning too.

[David]

You Make Loving Fun is my favorite. No other band could have pulled together such a clever, inventive track. (Another band would have started the vocal on the tonic tone, but Christine starts on the 7th.)

It's probably the most tasteful & poised rhythm & blues number an American rock band ever recorded. But it also has energy & drive, & keeps fresh in or out of the refrigerator.

Please visit my blog & leave comments!

[MissLadyLoki]

Gotta give my vote to You Make Loving Fun. It's ridiculously catchy, has a nice groove to it, and is just fun to listen to in general.

[ButterCookie]

Don't Stop - I consider it a Christine song but I rarely listen to it. It's a lovely song for it's purpose but, I too have over played it :distress:

Songbird - One of the two songs that can reduce me to tears every single time. My faourite is the version is the one off the Rumours Classic Albums. Her voice is perfect and so are the lyrics.

You Make Loving Fun - I would call SYLM a definitive FM song. For me, it really captures who they are and the relationships within the band. The Chorus contains some of my all time favourite lyrics, too.

Oh Daddy - I have had a funny relationship with Oh Daddy, funny because it's rare that I skip a Christine track... ever. For a while I liked it, then I loved it, then I hated it and now I love it again. It's lovely, sweet and heartfelt even if we don't know who it's for :laugh: My favourite is definitely the version off Rumours disk 2, Stevie's harmonies are perfect.

[michelej1]

Wow, Christine's songs on this album are my least favorite in her catalog. These don't hold a candle to her work on Tango, Mirage, Tusk or the White Album, as far as I'm concerned. I've never been into YMLF, although I've always gotten a bit of a smile out of Lindsey's enthusiasm for it. I guess I would like it more if I hadn't heard it so much -- which should be even truer for Don't Stop. But I think I will have to choose Don't Stop over Songbird.

Oh Daddy has got to be my least favorite of any of her songs. I was just watching a biograph of Lucrezia Borgia last night. They should have played Oh Daddy for that. Otherwise, I have no use for it.

Michele

[HomerMcvie]

You Make Loving Fun - I would call SYLM a definitive FM song.
???I'm so confused???

For me, definitely YMLF. One the all time best FM songs, ever.
I actually prefer the version on the Reissue, though. Love me those alternate lyrics at the end.

[bluefox4000]

Chris' songs on Rumours.

If I never hear Don't stop again.......I'll be Just fine. Songbird I adore and always have. Just a beautiful beautiful song. Had it played at my wedding:D

Not a huge fan of YMLF. Too disco for my taste. Good..but not the winner a lot of fans say it is.

Strangely i really Dig Oh Daddy. I can't explain it. love it:nod:

Mick

[Ulpian]

Hm, for me it's a tie between YMLF and Songbird. If it came to a crunch, I'd pick the former just now, but that could change.

I can take or leave Don't Stop (album version) but I **love** the version on The Dance. Just love it. I love Christine's keyboard playing and the use of the marching band, and her vocals are divine.

Oh Daddy I like, but I really don't like to hear it too often as it makes me a little melancholy. Ditto, actually, for Songbird.

The Chain is a Christine song at its core. I loved hearing how that came together.

I don't think these are necessarily her strongest songs as a collective - TITN, I think, beats Rumours on that front. However, for Songbird and YMLF alone, this album is a very fine display of her work.

[GypsySorcerer]

Don't Stop -- I appreciate the sentiment, but I'm sick to death of this song.

You Make Lovin' Fun -- Pretty close to perfect. Musically, it's one of my favorite Mac songs ever.

Songbird -- Simple and beautiful.

Oh Daddy -- I ADORE this. The version on the bonus disc is even better. I love that this song is a little darker than what Christine typically wrote. "If there's been a fool around, it's got to be me."

[Dodfather]

I don't hate Don't Stop but I very, very rarely listen to it any more. I've just heard it far too often and would quite happily see it dropped from the live set.

I really like You Make Lovin' Fun - it's catchy, quirky and even though it's of a similar sentiment to the other "break-up" songs on Rumours, it doesn;t sound quite as agressive as the others.

Songbird is just gorgeous - nothing else to day.

Oh Daddy is weird. Sometimes Ilike, other times I find it a bit sull. It's incredibly atmospheric and you have to be in the right mood for it - but when you are it's brilliant.

[aleuzzi]

YMLF all the friggin' way. I rarely think a Lindsey song is the best on a record, but GYOW might be the best Rumours song. YMLF, however, is as close a second as I can imagine. It not only has a killer groove, but these amazing choir like background vocals that ride in on the chorus--twentyseven Christines and a few Stevie and Lindeys creating this incredibly dense texture. There's also the matter of the incredible lead vocal, the guitar solo, that crazy clavinet... Can you tell I love this song?

Don't Stop. I've only ever liked the album version. The song just doesn't work for me live. It's a blues shuffle that is, in my opinion, inferior to Dissatisfied and the live versions of Get Like You Used to Be. On record, of course, the production is so fantastic that the song is given this incredible lift.

Songbird. Lovely.

Oh Daddy. More than any other song, Oh Daddy seems to me Christine's signature: it's dark, somber and--yes--haunting. Her pain is as ancient as Sappho's. And Dave, since we're talking chords, how about that diminished 7th chord that begins the line: "Yes, it's got to be me"!

[HejiraNYC]

YMLF is one of my all-time favorite FM songs, but I absolutely loathe it live. I hate the way that the rhythm just slows. down. to. a. crawl. when the chorus kicks in, unlike the album version where the rhythm just pushes right along. And the live version does not have that heavenly choir effect either, which really underscores the almost religious epiphany belied by the words "I never did believe in miracles..." YMLF is lightning in a bottle, I guess... it can be re-attempted, but never recaptured.

[Gailh]

You Make Lovin Fun and Songbird would be in my top 10 or top 5 Christine songs. Actually they'd make the top 2.

If we have to vote on this I'm going to be in serious trouble. I may have to consider registering again with a new user name and vote for them both :laugh:

I can take or leave Oh Daddy and although I love Don't Stop it has been played to death. I love The Chain but I hear John's bass solo at least 3 times a week because the Grand Prix season is on and the BBC use it as their theme music

Gail

[jbrownsjr]

Songbird - Sometimes the simplest things in life are the most beautiful. Give it up folks, she nailed it.

Oh Daddy - Haunting and brilliant. Lots of space, beautiful vocal. Great use of Fender rhodes piano and wonderful all around sound.

Don't Stop - Simply Amazing pop hit for 1977. Not too many people haven't heard this tune.

YMLF - Wow.. she totally captured the vibe in 1977 and put the FM spin on it. The play of the 4 instrumentalists showed how they really started to groove from the first FM album. I agree w/ Hejira that the live versions lose the song's ever so important essence. However, it's a cool rockin tune when they blues it up a little. The engineering of this song gets special mention.

The Chain - If you're a psycho like I am and actually have heard Christine's shell song of this, you know which parts she's written. Just like Christine was the glue for FM, she really was on this song as well.

We'll miss you Chris ~ Mick Fleetwood

[michelej1]

I love that this song is a little darker than what Christine typically wrote. "If there's been a fool around, it's got to be me."

See, to me, Christine's songs are almost all dark. YMLF and Don't Stop are exceptions, but to me, there's usually a sad strain in her songs and the dense orchestration usually emphasizes loss and longing, rather than celebrates joy.

Now, when I look for a contrast, I think a song like Behind the Mask is a departure for her, not because it's dark, but because it's almost a little sinister. And the lyrics say, "I don't want you back." Well, they don't actually say that. They really say, "I don't know if l. . ." but it's as close to Christine's lyrics come to saying hit the road and don't come back. In most of her songs, even through the pain, I think the underlying message is still grasping, whereas BTM pushes away.

Michele

[SpyNote]

1. Don't Stop

I see it as a Christine song, too, even though Lindsey has a greater presence on it. He also seems to take over on Think About Me and Hold Me. It would have been nice to hear Stevie's backups on all three of these songs. Why is she missing?

2. Songbird

It's a pretty song, though I don't really listen to it often. My favorite line is "And I wish you all the love in the world, but, most of all, I wish it for myself."

3. You Make Loving Fun

I love her bluesy pop/rock songs. This is one of her best.

4. Oh Daddy

This is my least favorite Christine song on Rumours. I don't know why. It just doesn't appeal to me.

5. The Chain

It's a classic. What more can be said?

[HejiraNYC]

2. Songbird

It's a pretty song, though I don't really listen to it often. My favorite line is "And I wish you all the love in the world, but, most of all, I wish it for myself."


I hate to burst your bubble, but I think it's "I wish it from myself." However, I like your twist on it better... it's so self-affirming. It's almost another way of saying if you can't love yourself, how can you love anyone else?

[SpyNote]

I hate to burst your bubble, but I think it's "I wish it from myself." However, I like your twist on it better... it's so self-affirming. It's almost another way of saying if you can't love yourself, how can you love anyone else?

Wow, then I've missed heard that line for years! But what does that mean? Isn't the first part wishing John all the love from her?

[tilthefirefades]

Wow, then I've missed heard that line for years! But what does that mean? Isn't the first part wishing John all the love from her?

Maybe it means that she is hurt so much that she doesn't want to fall back into it again for a while :shrug:

[ryan4136]

Here's the first discussion thread for Rumours focusing on Christine McVie's songs.

Songs up for discussion...
1. Don't Stop
2. Songbird
3. You Make Loving Fun
4. Oh Daddy
5. The Chain

Since "The Chain" is a true Fleetwood Mac collaboration, it can be discussed in which every threads you feel like. :cool:

Will "Don't Stop" go to Christine or collaboration due to Lindsey's vocals?:shrug:


It's been fun reading everyone's thoughts before putting my own down. Ah we make it to Rumours. I'm going to put a bit of this on each post so feel free to skip it on the others.

Rumours to me is the first "band" album of the Rumours era grouping. While the white album sold well, to me it was a hodge podge of things the band came together with previously. To me it was 1/2 Buckingham Nicks, and 1/2 Heros/Mystery to Me. With the only song that seemed like a progression to a a band sound being Rhiannon, which was still in it's infancy as a song at the merger.

However, when we arrive at Rumours we find an album where all parties seem to be coming together (even while personally they are pulling apart) to put the best that each person has to offer on every song, and to really push a "band" sound. There is nearly zero solo feel to any song. Sometimes Tusk gets a rap as being overproduced (which it is), but it's no more overproduced than Rumours the members of the band just swim the same direction down stream together on this one.

It's a true gem of pop/rock (not my favorite FM album, but it's place in thier catalog is important to aknowledge). Overproduced at times, but done (largely by LB) with the blessing of the band, unlike Tusk where we seem some disagreement in sound.


On to Christine....

Don't Stop....very popular song. You see a great writing partnership in Christine and Lindsey here. This song does better in sales with LB singing it, however this is easily a standard Christine type song.


Songbird...has done well with Mac fans, the negative about Songbird was the attempt by the band to recreate the feel of the song on nearly every album afterwards. It would've had a bigger impact historically if it sat alone in it's feel in the bands history (similar to a never going back again from LB).

You make loving fun.....my favorite CM song on this album. Easily the most produced song on this album, but I don't see how they could've made as strong without all the layering of sounds. If I was introducing someone to FM that had never heard them before I'd be hard pressed not to pick this one. Gotta think everyone can relate to this song.

Oh Daddy....I rarely pick Oh daddy out on a play list for some reason. But everytime I listen to it, I love how it has a unique sound that can't be easily copied. I find it unique lyrically for CM, because nearly every song she writes is about falling in or out of love....this one really is only asking for forgiveness, love be damned.

The Chain........you can put everyone's name on it all you want...this is an LB song. And epitomizes the movement towards full band songs of this album.

[AliceLover]

YMLF is one of my all-time favorite FM songs, but I absolutely loathe it live. I hate the way that the rhythm just slows. down. to. a. crawl. when the chorus kicks in, unlike the album version where the rhythm just pushes right along. And the live version does not have that heavenly choir effect either, which really underscores the almost religious epiphany belied by the words "I never did believe in miracles..." YMLF is lightning in a bottle, I guess... it can be re-attempted, but never recaptured.

I agree with you here. Especially on the chorus aspects. Those choir harmonies are pure gold. However, I do love the older live versions because of Lindsey's guitar work on the choruses. Plus the ending on the live version is so dramatic. Love it!

Gotta say my favorite live version has to be Rosebud 77'

[TrueFaith77]

It needs to be said that Clinton RUINED Don't Stop.

[chiliD]

The Chain........you can put everyone's name on it all you want...this is an LB song. And epitomizes the movement towards full band songs of this album.

:eek:Don't really see how you can say that, since the lyrics are stereotypically Stevie Nicks...the instrumental work behind the vocals, yeah, that's Lindsey (listen to live versions of "Lola (My Love)"). From the bass break on, that's a typical "Fleetwood Mac" vibe...from as far back as the Peter Green/Danny Kirwan days ("Searchin' For Madge", "Tell Me All The Things You Do", etc)

[Ulpian]

The Chain........you can put everyone's name on it all you want...this is an LB song. And epitomizes the movement towards full band songs of this album.


That's not true at all. If it's anyone's song in particular, it's Christine's. The original Keep Me There / Butter Cookie demos can be heard in one form or another in that final cut.

[Villavic]

Since "The Chain" is a true Fleetwood Mac collaboration, it can be discussed in which every threads you feel like. :cool:
:shrug:

It is? According to the "making of Rumours" dvd, Lindsey was playing with John,, but they didn't have a song, Stevie recalls, and Lindsey didn't want anybody to add but at the end he agree to accept Stevie's help (lyrics, I understand). I can't find where Christine includes parts in this song (jbrownsjr help me)..

[Villavic]

It needs to be said that Clinton RUINED Don't Stop.

Just because a song is too much played, or associated with someone, it is ruined? I think it can be a temporary effect, but saying it's ruined.. I consider it too much.

I've been tired of Don't Stop. But these days I'm dating someone new in my life who loves this song, so Don't Stop is now our song. And he is discovering Fleetwood Mac and I'm playing to him all version (Rumours, Rumours demo, Live, The Dance, Tango Live, etc..)... Then it is on my top ten songs again. Of course is a matter of moods and ideas association. One day you are saturated of, tomorrow you love it again... that's the magic of music, IMHO.

[Artemis]

1. Don't Stop

I see it as a Christine song, too, even though Lindsey has a greater presence on it. He also seems to take over on Think About Me and Hold Me. It would have been nice to hear Stevie's backups on all three of these songs. Why is she missing?

Excellent question! I've always wondered this, it just seems so odd. Especially in Hold Me, since in the video Stevie just... lies around and looks fabulous :lol:

[jbrownsjr]

The Chain........you can put everyone's name on it all you want...this is an LB song. And epitomizes the movement towards full band songs of this album.

I couldn't disagree more, it was a collaboration of CM and LB's music in certain parts... then the rest was added..

[jbrownsjr]

It is? According to the "making of Rumours" dvd, Lindsey was playing with John,, but they didn't have a song, Stevie recalls, and Lindsey didn't want anybody to add but at the end he agree to accept Stevie's help (lyrics, I understand). I can't find where Christine includes parts in this song (jbrownsjr help me)..

see the post right above yours..

[aleuzzi]

The song began as a Christine song that had no words. Lindsey and Christine scrapped it and began working on it bit by bit. Stevie contributed the great lyrics and vocal melody. As Christine once said in an interview in Songwriter (1984), "The Chain" was very much worked on as a trio. John and Mick's names are added, I suspect, to give them a crack a bit of royalties.

[michelej1]

On to Christine....

Don't Stop....very popular song. You see a great writing partnership in Christine and Lindsey here. This song does better in sales with LB singing it, however this is easily a standard Christine type song.


Lindsey didn't write the song. This is the type of shuffle that Christine would and could have written long before she ever met Lindsey.

Even Lindsey would admit as much, but he has talked about the confusion created because he starts off the vocal on the song. He knows that's why people associate with his work, even though it's not.

Michele

[ryan4136]

Interesting what everyone hears on the Chain.

Maybe I overstated my feelings a little, I guess I've always heard more LB on that song than the others (regardless of vocals). I always thought the arrangement had a solo LB quality to it....maybe his solo has more of a Christine influence than I've given her credit for over the years.

[MacShadowsBall]

As far as "Don't Stop" goes, Lindsey's voice fits better that Christine's. When she gets the 2nd verse, its like eh,okay.

The album version of "The Chain" vocally seems to be all Stevie and Lindsey; yet in live performances its all three vocalist!