Should The Ledge message board be members only?

[holidayroad]

To see more about the issues that have led to this question, please read the threads "A Message From Miranda (StreetAngel95)' and 'Safety issues for teen users of The Ledge'

For anyone who doesn't know how this question came up........It started with finding out that StreetAngel95's parents' said she couldn't come here. This then turned into some people being concerned about teen (or anyone's) safety and privacy here at The Ledge.
Then the discussion also led to opinions on whether guests should be here, since they also see everything we post. Some people said in the other thread that they were for a private board, others said they were against. I figured this vote would be the best way to know how everyone feels.

[bluefox4000]

Yes for me

Mick

[MissLadyLoki]

I voted yes cause there is too many people lurking around and looking and not being members, which can be a problem. Also, it seems perfectly right that if you wanna read the boards, you have gotta be a member, as with many forums (such as IMDb, which I was once a member of).

As for worries about less people coming in, the Penguin comes up in searches a lot if someone is looking for something related to the Mac, and they could easily find this board afterwards.

[BTFLCHLD]

no.


if the true agenda here is teen safety, IMO, a headline or sticky thread with a warning on posting personal information and/or providing personal information within private message is discouraged should be sufficient. In today's age, I would hope the majority of children/adults have been advised of this tid-bit previously. But being as gentle reminders can be good, the above would seem appropriate. As well, moderators can be of assistance in the removal of private information and guidance can be given by members with a possible referral to forum rules/FAQs...should they feel the need to do so.

in reading the Teen Safety Thread (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=44031) it began to read more an exclusion of guests reviewing pics and/or obtaining download links; not quite in-line with teen safety.

[Tango]

I voted yes cause there is too many people lurking around and looking and not being members, which can be a problem. Also, it seems perfectly right that if you wanna read the boards, you have gotta be a member, as with many forums (such as IMDb, which I was once a member of).

As for worries about less people coming in, the Penguin comes up in searches a lot if someone is looking for something related to the Mac, and they could easily find this board afterwards.

Exactly how are lurkers a "problem." Your post seems to suggest a perjorative meaning to the word "lurker." To me a lurker is a "reader." They are watching the happenings and not participating. Exactly how can that be a problem? Seems to me that most of the moderating issues are caused by those that are signed in and participating, ;) not those that keep their mouths shut.

Some people lurk because they just have nothing current to say. Is that wrong in your mind? There are lots of Fleetwood Mac fans that read the board with no need to comment. It's always been like that here. If you look at The Ledge front page there were 300 + people reading the night a show began. Did that hurt anyone? How would that affect you? There are people that financially support this board that "lurk." Lurking need not be a sinister, evil practive. Actually, it's those that probably display undo familiarity that you probably should be careful with--those who say inappropriate things to you, ask for personal information, (phone numbers, your school, address, etc) etc--not those that keep their mouths shut and merely read The Ledge and other areas of The Penguin. Shall we blindfold people from reading a Fleetwood Mac message board because one 15 year old was told by her parents (for reasons that are not clear) that she can't post here?

btw, 15 year olds are rather hard to "control." There's libraries, and any other number of places were she might also lurk. Either her parents trust her, or they don't. And she is either trustworthy or she's not to her parents demands. In the end, she will be 18 soon, and have to make all her own decisions about life. Meanwhile, shall The Ledge be changed for her?

In terms of safety, is it necessary for minors to post on a board where they are sitting at a show? And post their photos? Anyone could just PM/email those people that you really know and trust. This is the age of the internet. "Kids" are educated quite young in school about "the evil internet," and there has been plenty of education available about it on TV, magazines, and on the internet itself.

A Fleetwood Mac website hardly seems the place for pediphiles to hang out anyhow.

In the end, none of this is really up to us. The board is privately owned. It's not a democracy. The moderators have been doing a tireless job on this website for a number of years now. Isn't that enough policing?

[BTFLCHLD]

. ditto :D

still scratchin my head over this one... :laugh:

[LukeA]

I think the teen aspect is only part of a rather compelling argument to make The Ledge accessible to registered members only.

[HomerMcvie]

Tango- excellent post! I agree!

[ButterCookie]

A Fleetwood Mac website hardly seems the place for pediphiles to hang out anyhow.


I agree with your post and I voted No. This point in particular, though. The 'creepers' are going to be on Taylor Swift forums where the posters are younger and not necessarily as 'internet savvy' as Ledgie minors. Since beginning to post here I have learned that Fleetwood Mac fans are intelligent and are (mainly) people who I love to sit down and have a meaningful conversation with. People who are too smart to fall into the 'trap' of a paedophile. The 'lurkers' probably just want to avoid the cat fights! :eek:

[TrueFaith77]

No, members should be restricted to 18+.

[ButterCookie]

No, members should be restricted to 18+.

When I signed up to Facebook a few years ago, it was still 18+. I was at least 13 then.

[JWS]

No, members should be restricted to 18+.

How is that policed? Would you have to scan in your birth certificate? Complete an application?

[holidayroad]

no.


if the true agenda here is teen safety, IMO, a headline or sticky thread with a warning on posting personal information and/or providing personal information within private message is discouraged should be sufficient. In today's age, I would hope the majority of children/adults have been advised of this tid-bit previously. But being as gentle reminders can be good, the above would seem appropriate. As well, moderators can be of assistance in the removal of private information and guidance can be given by members with a possible referral to forum rules/FAQs...should they feel the need to do so.

in reading the Teen Safety Thread (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=44031) it began to read more an exclusion of guests reviewing pics and/or obtaining download links; not quite in-line with teen safety.

I do agree that, at the least, there needs to be a sticky/ advisement to any minor here or one that joins that states to not put private info or info that shows your location on the board. I also think that if a minor Does put the info on the board, it should be deleted. If they want to give a certain Ledgie their address/info/etc., it at least needs to be in a private message. (not the best thing to do either, but better than showing it to everyone).

[holidayroad]

btw, 15 year olds are rather hard to "control." There's libraries, and any other number of places were she might also lurk. Either her parents trust her, or they don't. And she is either trustworthy or she's not to her parents demands. In the end, she will be 18 soon, and have to make all her own decisions about life. Meanwhile, shall The Ledge be changed for her?

In the end, none of this is really up to us. The board is privately owned. It's not a democracy. The moderators have been doing a tireless job on this website for a number of years now. Isn't that enough policing?

I don't feel the boards should be changed Just because of what happened, it just brought up some underlying issues.
I do agree that none of this is 'up to us', but if a clear majority of people feel the boards should be 'members only', or a majority thinks they should remain public, then at least it will show the moderators how we feel about it

[Musicman408]

No we shouldn't limit it to members only. It isn't necessarily our job to teach about online safety and whatnot- that's a family's job. Though I wouldn't necessarily be against an age limit of 16.

[Artemis]

I would vote no, I moderate on another message board and our policy is "We're not here to police the internet or be parents" besides, some people like to lurk before they sign up to the community. I know I lurked here for months before finally deciding "Well, it seems like a really friendly community, I wanna sign up!" getting those awful "You need to be a member to see this page!" messages would really put people off from signing up, in my opinion.

If minors posting details are an issue, then any posts where they post personal information should just be deleted / not allowed. Or something. I'm rambling xD

[LikeAWillow]

I think the teen aspect is only part of a rather compelling argument to make The Ledge accessible to registered members only.

This. x1000.

[TrueFaith77]

I'm surprised non-members aren't registering to vote "No" :wavey:

[Nathan]

I don't think 'I don't have an opinion' should be an option here. If the goal of this is any kind of meaningful result, then people should make up their minds' or not vote. No fence-riders, in my opinion.

[jaycee]

I don't think 'I don't have an opinion' should be an option here. If the goal of this is any kind of meaningful result, then people should make up their minds' or not vote. No fence-riders, in my opinion.

Personally, I think it's a helpful option - it's most likely that Ledies who have considered the many arguments here, but are still unable to reach a conclusion and don't expect to be able to any time soon, will vote "I don't know". If there's lots of "I don't know"s, it indicates that we have to keep this poll open longer to discuss it further; if there aren't many, and it starts to appear much in favour of "Yes"/"No", then it's means it's about time to settle the matter.

[LukeA]

Personally, I think it's a helpful option - it's most likely that Ledies who have considered the many arguments here, but are still unable to reach a conclusion and don't expect to be able to any time soon, will vote "I don't know". If there's lots of "I don't know"s, it indicates that we have to keep this poll open longer to discuss it further; if there aren't many, and it starts to appear much in favour of "Yes"/"No", then it's means it's about time to settle the matter.

Yes, I agree. Plus, its not like its a binding vote... at least not in the legislative sense (again, not a democracy). Its a registration of opinion pertaining to how the issue stands at the moment- nothing more and nothing less.

The points that arise in the discussion within this thread & the ones made in the other threads will, in and of themselves, drive the issue far more than a simple (yet still interesting) yes/no vote. Just my opinion.

[fringed n fab]

I can see the benefits of keeping the forum either way. But if it's lasted over 10 years as an open board for anyone to browse, why go changing it now? I know I browsed SevenWonders before it became a private board, before joining and had a lot to say (that's all behind me now) but I think a lot of people want to browse maybe before they feel like joining. I also feel with this board in particular being open to anyone, we should always be on our best behavior and careful what we post because you never know who might be watching and reading what is posted about any of the Mac. They themselves could very well visit this board from time to time or anyone in the business that have worked with them. The latter we know is true because they've posted here. So in that sense I think keeping this an open board has encouraged the ones in the music business with FM to join and share with us their personal stories and none of us want to lose that, I'm sure.

[jaycee]

I can see the benefits of keeping the forum either way. But if it's lasted over 10 years as an open board for anyone to browse, why go changing it now?

Perhaps because it might be change for the better? It doesn't matter how long something's been around, it can still be wrong.
However...

I know I browsed SevenWonders before it became a private board, before joining and had a lot to say (that's all behind me now) but I think a lot of people want to browse maybe before they feel like joining.

This reason has pushed me over the edge into definitive "No" territory. :)

[holidayroad]

I don't think 'I don't have an opinion' should be an option here. If the goal of this is any kind of meaningful result, then people should make up their minds' or not vote. No fence-riders, in my opinion.

I agree with you, but I figured if I didn't put that option, people would complain.:)

[T8rBoi]

To see more about the issues that have led to this question, please read the threads "A Message From Miranda (StreetAngel95)' and 'Safety issues for teen users of The Ledge'

For anyone who doesn't know how this question came up........It started with finding out that StreetAngel95's parents' said she couldn't come here. This then turned into some people being concerned about teen (or anyone's) safety and privacy here at The Ledge.
Then the discussion also led to opinions on whether guests should be here, since they also see everything we post. Some people said in the other thread that they were for a private board, others said they were against. I figured this vote would be the best way to know how everyone feels.


:laugh: :laugh:

A teenager goes against their parents, gets caught and punished - so let's change the world. :laugh: :laugh:

It's a public message board that has private messages. If you don't want a "lurker" reading something you wrote, then don't post it on a public message board. Just common sense.

Why don't the 20 some yes votes all get together and start their own private message board where they can talk about whatever or whoever they want and not have to worry about the lurkers. Then they can post stuff here that doesn't have to be so secretive. Best of both worlds right?

How do you attract new members to a message board about a band (that is in it's later years and downswing of popularity) if you make everything private? Is it a case of "we got all the cool people who have all the knowledge about Fleetwood Mac we need, now lets close the doors"? How did that work out for 7 Wonders?

Just my opinions of course.

I think the teen aspect is only part of a rather compelling argument to make The Ledge accessible to registered members only.

??

Where is this rather compelling argument?

This. x1000.

Where is this compelling argument x1000? lol

Seriously though, teenagers are gonna write the book of how The Ledge should be?

[holidayroad]

:laugh: :laugh:

A teenager goes against their parents, gets caught and punished - so let's change the world. :laugh: :laugh:

It's a public message board that has private messages. If you don't want a "lurker" reading something you wrote, then don't post it on a public message board. Just common sense.

Why don't the 20 some yes votes all get together and start their own private message board where they can talk about whatever or whoever they want and not have to worry about the lurkers. Then they can post stuff here that doesn't have to be so secretive. Best of both worlds right?

How do you attract new members to a message board about a band (that is in it's later years and downswing of popularity) if you make everything private? Is it a case of "we got all the cool people who have all the knowledge about Fleetwood Mac we need, now lets close the doors"? How did that work out for 7 Wonders?

Just my opinions of course.



??

Where is this rather compelling argument?



Where is this compelling argument x1000? lol

Seriously though, teenagers are gonna write the book of how The Ledge should be?

It really isn't all about what happened with a teen at The Ledge. It is something that brought up further questions/ opinions about safety and privacy. I am not out to completely change things here, nor do I want to start another board. I'm also not saying the board should limit who joins. ANYone can sign up. The point is that they don't.

[Tango]

It really isn't all about what happened with a teen at The Ledge. It is something that brought up further questions/ opinions about safety and privacy. I am not out to completely change things here, nor do I want to start another board. I'm also not saying the board should limit who joins. ANYone can sign up. The point is that they don't.

Why do you care who signs up and joins? You see strangers on the street-- do you need to "know" everyone? You won't really know who these people are even if they DO join, will you? "Pssssst, watch these folks. They are former LURKERS! Shhhhh!" Safety and privacy? YOU control your own safety and privacy here and anywhere else you visit. "And it all comes down to you--well, you know that it does." If you can't control what you post (or know of someone else that can't), maybe a closed board is something you (he or she) want to go to and consider. Seven Wonders is a possibility. I think the Leg Board is still a closed site--not sure (anyone know?), as I quit going there once they "closed" it. Almost forgot--there's MICK's board, too! LOL! But they are Fleetwood Mac/fan run boards with very enthusiastic members--some of them post here and there and you'll have your privacy.

Can someone post links to these sites for holiday road and others so they can check them out?

[Hawkeye]

Nothing pisses me off more then wanting to get info on some other band or artist (or for that matter anything not even music related) and not being able to view message board unless I register. I don't want to ****ing go through an annoying registrarion process to view intresting and inormative info. I only want to register if i actually feel like engaging in the disscussions like here. And I have no idea what password is. It auto signs me on with my main computer, if I'm somehwere else I have to view as a guest.

Worst Idea Ever, especially for those whose reasoning is the lets protect the teenagers argument.

[LukeA]

Can someone post links to these sites for holiday road and others so they can check them out?

I'm very well aware of them, thank you. Its a bit intellectually disingenuous to compare The Ledge to those boards, though, don't you think?

[Tango]

I'm very well aware of them, thank you. Its a bit intellectually disingenuous to compare The Ledge to those boards, though, don't you think?

Nope, not a bit disingenuous.

[LukeA]

Nope, not a bit disingenuous.

Well, it just seems to me that its silly to compare The Penguin/The Ledge (both of which have been around for about 15 years) and its 4000+ registered members to niche sites/forums that either feature far less content, focus solely on one band member/era, cater to non-English speaking fans, etc. They are not fair comparisons/alternatives to The Ledge, nor will they likely ever be.

I'm willing to bet that 4000+ people registered for The Ledge more because of its proximity/connection to the wealth of information found on The Penguin rather than a stray Google search or two. Make the forum topics/thread names visible to all, but require registration to view the threads/participate. Best of both worlds.

[jmn3]

Worst Idea Ever, especially for those whose reasoning is the lets protect the teenagers argument.

Totally agree - it's aggravating to have to do this. I've not bothered with many websites who force this issue. Who cares who lurks? I still don't get that argument, are they bothering anyone? I lurked here for years before registering...and even then, I think I'm on 8+ years since registering, and I still lurk a boatload more than I actively post. I don't think I'm bothering anyone. If you don't want personal info getting out to strangers, then don't post it on the net.

And really, protecting teenagers...come on, it's a Fleetwood Mac message board and that would be the parent's job anyway.

[T8rBoi]

I'm willing to bet that 4000+ people registered for The Ledge more because of its proximity/connection to the wealth of information found on The Penguin rather than a stray Google search or two. Make the forum topics/thread names visible to all, but require registration to view the threads/participate. Best of both worlds.


I'm willing to bet that 4000+ people registered for The Ledge did so because they lurked around for awhile and when they felt comfortable and had something worthwhile to contribute, they knew what they were getting into.

What freaking sense does it make to tease people with topics and thread names and not allow them to see whats going on? Is there anything here that is so private and secretive that the general public can't or shouldn't read?

Again, it's a public message board about Fleetwood Mac, if people choose to overshare in the Chit Chat forum and make themselves less safe or look like idiots, should we really be changing for them? Though I do imagine it's frustrating for some when they can't keep their facebook stories and their Ledge stories straight. :laugh: :laugh: (Where is my Beret?)

Do you think 7 Wonders has benefited since they changed? Where would you go if you were a newer fan whose parents just gave you their collection of rare bootlegs of Fleetwood Mac. Hopefully here, cos you had a chance to check it out and can see there are people who care (and share) about the band and would love to hear those and be glad to help someone find more to listen to. :shrug:

[holidayroad]

Why do you care who signs up and joins? You see strangers on the street-- do you need to "know" everyone? You won't really know who these people are even if they DO join, will you? "Pssssst, watch these folks. They are former LURKERS! Shhhhh!" Safety and privacy? YOU control your own safety and privacy here and anywhere else you visit. "And it all comes down to you--well, you know that it does." If you can't control what you post (or know of someone else that can't), maybe a closed board is something you (he or she) want to go to and consider. Seven Wonders is a possibility. I think the Leg Board is still a closed site--not sure (anyone know?), as I quit going there once they "closed" it. Almost forgot--there's MICK's board, too! LOL! But they are Fleetwood Mac/fan run boards with very enthusiastic members--some of them post here and there and you'll have your privacy.

Can someone post links to these sites for holiday road and others so they can check them out?

I know that I am in charge of my own privacy and safety here. I have posted very little personal information here. Please remember a lot of this conversation about a members-only board started on a thread concerning the safety of minors posting here.

[tilthefirefades]

This is actually the only forum besides PFWW where you don't have to sign up to see posts :wavey: And I joined those forums so that I could read what was going on. People will register so that they can read, and then never post. Seems like a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" kind of thing.

[Nathan]

Nothing pisses me off more then wanting to get info on some other band or artist (or for that matter anything not even music related) and not being able to view message board unless I register. I don't want to ****ing go through an annoying registrarion process to view intresting and inormative info. I only want to register if i actually feel like engaging in the disscussions like here. And I have no idea what password is. It auto signs me on with my main computer, if I'm somehwere else I have to view as a guest.

Worst Idea Ever, especially for those whose reasoning is the lets protect the teenagers argument.



Yes - I registered here to view the pictures, get the downloads and participate in the discussions. And I lurked for a long time before that. I'm one of the top posters on Seven Wonders, but I've really all but stopped going there. The Ledge is the authority on Fleetwood Mac.

Point being - there will no traffic here if people have to register to view.

But my god -- think of the children... :laugh:

[RickRobert]

Yes - I registered here to view the pictures, get the downloads and participate in the discussions. And I lurked for a long time before that. I'm one of the top posters on Seven Wonders, but I've really all but stopped going there. The Ledge is the authority on Fleetwood Mac.

Point being - there will no traffic here if people have to register to view.

But my god -- think of the children... :laugh:

Yeah man I want to be able to post my personal info without lurkers seeing it grrr :mad:

:lol:

[iamnotafraid]

Just say no.

[Brad]

Though I wouldn't necessarily be against an age limit of 16.

I'll take it a step further and say 22.

:rolleyes: