Carol Ann Harris

[gypsy4life]

I have to say this. The more I learn about this woman, the more I think she was just an attention seeking groupie! I mean, she just seems so fake to me.
I have been thinking of reading her book, so, I have been doing a little research before I pay good money for it.
I'm sure some of you have read it. What do you think?

[michelej1]

It's been discussed a lot over the years and here is the thread that has a bulk of the many musings and opinions.

http://www.ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=36386&highlight=storms+carol

[louielouie2000]

I've expressed my opinion on Carol Ann (I'll leave out my nickname for her, because some people get offended :cool:) and her book many times. I say regardless of what you think of her, read the book. Realize you must take every single thing she says with a grain of salt. Look more at the big picture. I think overall, she weaves a pretty accurate tapestry of at least the way the band interacted during it's heyday. I wouldn't give any specific events she mentions much credence at all. Despite that, I think this is still a must read for any avid Mac fan. It's pure gossipy trashy fun... and that's what the Mac is all about! :laugh:

[Dodfather]

I've expressed my opinion on Carol Ann (I'll leave out my nickname for her, because some people get offended :cool:) and her book many times. I say regardless of what you think of her, read the book. Realize you must take every single thing she says with a grain of salt. Look more at the big picture. I think overall, she weaves a pretty accurate tapestry of at least the way the band interacted during it's heyday. I wouldn't give any specific events she mentions much credence at all. Despite that, I think this is still a must read for any avid Mac fan. It's pure gossipy trashy fun... and that's what the Mac is all about! :laugh:

More like a great big bag of the stuff!

Ahhh yes, it is a gossipy, trashy book! I'd advise reading it, just because it's a Mac book really!

[skuncles]

I found the book to be a great read. I look at this way she either is for the most part telling the truth or she is one hell of a writer. I believe she filled in a lot of blanks. She of course comes off as an angel in the book, so you know she's not telling EVERYTHING. But I thought it was a great read. I recommend this way above and beyond that piece of crap book "Read Between My Lines" which rates as one THE worst bios of Stevie ever published. That book is nothing more than a collection of info from the web (and not very well organized either) not to mention there is tons of inaccurate info in there. As for "Storms" though, despite how accurate it may or may not be, it is a great read.

[David]

I think Carol (or her ghostwriter) created a very phony atmosphere of interrelating among the dramatis personae. Dialog, moods, & emotional reactions as described in the book were no more believable or recognizably human than they are in a nighttime soap opera like "Dynasty."

Carol's book is a play, not a biography -- not even an anecdotal biography.

[HomerMcvie]

I found the book to be a great read. I look at this way she either is for the most part telling the truth or she is one hell of a writer. I believe she filled in a lot of blanks. She of course comes off as an angel in the book, so you know she's not telling EVERYTHING. But I thought it was a great read. I recommend this way above and beyond that piece of crap book "Read Between My Lines" which rates as one THE worst bios of Stevie ever published. That book is nothing more than a collection of info from the web (and not very well organized either) not to mention there is tons of inaccurate info in there. As for "Storms" though, despite how accurate it may or may not be, it is a great read.

I agree. I thoroughly enjoy the book, and have read it several times. And although I don't believe she's an angel(much akin to Don Felder's Eagles book), I do believe most of the "anger trash" about Lindsey. I've always believed him of possessing a volatile temper, way before "Storms" came along.

[gypsy4life]

Thanks for the input. I'll probably read it, w/ the grain of salt idea in mind!

[louielouie2000]

Thanks for the input. I'll probably read it, w/ the grain of salt idea in mind!

Please do share your thoughts once you've read the book. The Mac community seems to have wildly differing thoughts on it. I personally enjoy hearing them all. To quote a line from one of my favorite movies: "Truth, like art, is in the eye of the beholder."

[ButterCookie]

Ooh, Momma bought me a copy recently. I just finished Suzi Quatro's book so I'll start Storms tonight :thumbsup:

[jbrownsjr]

Her writing is horrible.. (even if it's a ghostwriter)... It really pained me at the end....

But I found some of what was in the book believable... 1. She was there and it was her story to tell 2. She was not the only person to write about the abusiveness physical or otherwise.

It's about as believable as Mick's book... Did I believe all of it? No.. Did I believe some of it... Yes...

I love Fleetwood Mac's music and respect them as musician's. Having said that, I don't love them or worship them or even think that they these perfect people. I don't want them to be perfect (that's unbelievable).

They built the latter part of their career's on drama and drugs and that's exactly what they got.. So whether all of it's true or not, this book fits right into to what made them extremely rich and famous. It's full of drama.

She's a lot... like.... you....

[gypsy4life]

Please do share your thoughts once you've read the book. The Mac community seems to have wildly differing thoughts on it. I personally enjoy hearing them all. To quote a line from one of my favorite movies: "Truth, like art, is in the eye of the beholder."

Absolutely! I just got the confirm from Amazon that it shipped today. I should have it soon.

[louielouie2000]

Ooh, Momma bought me a copy recently. I just finished Suzi Quatro's book so I'll start Storms tonight :thumbsup:

You know I wanna hear your thoughts once you're done, too! :D I know you won't filter yourself! ;)

[ButterCookie]

Haah, you'll know my exact thoughts on it :p On the note of FM biographies, Rumours and Lies annoyed me no end. There were bits here and there in which the spelling and grammar was atrocious! I was tearing my hair out :lol: A good read overall, but seriously, sack the editor!

[erwk05]

I actually thought it was a really good read - Im sure for the most part it was true, of course some was probably embellished but any good writer needs to do that!

I didnt put the book down, read it solid over 2 evenings

I enjoyed learning lots of little bits of info that I never knew :)

I brought it on ebay and it was well worth it

[ButterCookie]

I started it and it's juicy, true or not. I laughed SO hard at the story of Christines strip search and her 'usuals'

[DashingDan]

I just kindled it and I'm only 5 or 6 screens in and I LOVE IT ALREADY!

[Amlyn]

I read it awhile ago, but everyone reading again has me thinking I might too.

Looking forward to some more discussion with everyone.

[gypsy4life]

Ok, my book should be here in about two days. So, I'll be sure to fill you all in on my opinion.
I am almost done with Triad now. I'm on a Stevie/Mac inspired reading frenzy!! Triad is very interesting. Stevie got the name Rhiannon from the novel, but, it's interesting apart from the song title.

[louielouie2000]

I found Triad at my neighborhood used book store probably 5 years back. I was surprised at just how different it was from my expectations. Neat little book, though. I can see why it appealed to Stevie, besides just the names. I need to dig that one out and read it again, it's probably been a couple of years! :D

And yeah, like I said, Carol Ann's book is trashy fun. If you keep that in mind, you'll snicker your butt off reading it! :laugh:

[David]

And yeah, like I said, Carol Ann's book is trashy fun. If you keep that in mind, you'll snicker your butt off reading it! :laugh:
I agree with LouieLouie!

But what keeps it from being even more fun for me is all the blurry tiny Polaroids.

[ButterCookie]

But what keeps it from being even more fun for me is all the blurry tiny Polaroids.


I love the polariods!! Although, I suppose I'm just a general sucker for polaroid.

[APerfectLie]

I found Triad at my neighborhood used book store probably 5 years back. I was surprised at just how different it was from my expectations. Neat little book, though. I can see why it appealed to Stevie, besides just the names. I need to dig that one out and read it again, it's probably been a couple of years! :D

And yeah, like I said, Carol Ann's book is trashy fun. If you keep that in mind, you'll snicker your butt off reading it! :laugh:

I ****in loved Triad!

[SmileAtYou]

I happily checked Storms out from my public library, pleased that I didn't have to spend my $$$....

I agree with everyone's comments, it was a trashy fun read...

until the parts about Lindsey's seizures.... omg that section of the book was sooo boring and dramatic and looooong.... I never finished the book because I could not get past those boring parts!

[vivfox]

I've never read the book because it was stolen from the Library. They tried to get it from another location and that copy was stolen too.
I'm not interested in buying it either.

[goldustsongbird]

I started it and it's juicy, true or not. I laughed SO hard at the story of Christines strip search and her 'usuals'

Oh, god. The granny panties.

This is my favourite part of the book, and I haven't even read all of it yet. I've only read what's available on googlebooks. Second favourite part was CAH's play-by-play of her first date with Lindsey, including the important detail of how utterly fragile he thought she was. :p

[HomerMcvie]

Oh, god. The granny panties.

This is my favourite part of the book, and I haven't even read all of it yet. I've only read what's available on googlebooks. Second favourite part was CAH's play-by-play of her first date with Lindsey, including the important detail of how utterly fragile he thought she was. :p

I can't believe you've not read it!!!!!


And, btw, I think "Oh no, granny panties" should be your next sheep caption!

[michelej1]

Second favourite part was CAH's play-by-play of her first date with Lindsey, including the important detail of how utterly fragile he thought she was. :p

Said he thought she had fragile shoulders, which is especially creepy. When they were separated and reunited for one last time after Desi's funeral, he said something like, "you're still the person with the most fragile shoulders I've ever seen." Yeah, well . . . hmm. I suppose there are worse fetishes you could have.

Michele

[StreetAngel95]

I'm reading the preview on googlebooks now-

i love how CAH describes Lindsey's hands - with long fingers, strong, but like the hands of an artist
i always thought Lindsey's hands were interesting.
And Rumours-era Lindsey sounds sooo adorable! Like i was reading it, and wished that it were Lindsey with his arms around me...*sigh*...ok, sorry, i went into teenage fangirl mode

[vivfox]

And Rumours-era Lindsey sounds sooo adorable! Like i was reading it, and wished that it were Lindsey with his arms around me...*sigh*...ok, sorry, i went into teenage fangirl mode

Speaking of older men...
Miranda, are you also attracted to Grandpa on The Munsters?

[Sahara]

I've never read the book because it was stolen from the Library. They tried to get it from another location and that copy was stolen too.
I'm not interested in buying it either.

Who on earth would want to steal that? Twice?? It's kind of specific!

And Rumours-era Lindsey sounds sooo adorable! Like i was reading it, and wished that it were Lindsey with his arms around me...*sigh*...ok, sorry, i went into teenage fangirl mode

You're allowed to do that, Miranda, because you ARE a teenage fangirl.
The rest of us have no excuse ;)
(though I'm still twenteen, do I count? :wavey:)

[StreetAngel95]

Speaking of older men...
Miranda, are you also attracted to Grandpa on The Munsters?

haha...:laugh:...:o...:distress:

no

[ButterCookie]

I can't believe you've not read it!!!!!


And, btw, I think "Oh no, granny panties" should be your next sheep caption!

"Oh my god, Chris! Not the cotton English granny knickers!" :eek:

[goldustsongbird]

I can't believe you've not read it!!!!!


And, btw, I think "Oh no, granny panties" should be your next sheep caption!

I was just at the library the other day, but unless I go there with a list, any book I was recommended or had thought to look up is always forgotten. I'm going to read it eventually, I promise!

Done. :wavey:

Said he thought she had fragile shoulders, which is especially creepy. When they were separated and reunited for one last time after Desi's funeral, he said something like, "you're still the person with the most fragile shoulders I've ever seen." Yeah, well . . . hmm. I suppose there are worse fetishes you could have.

Michele

lol. wow. And at a funeral, no less.

[CADreaming]

I agree with LouieLouie!

But what keeps it from being even more fun for me is all the blurry tiny Polaroids.


For real. Looks like typical groupie pictures...

Said he thought she had fragile shoulders, which is especially creepy. When they were separated and reunited for one last time after Desi's funeral, he said something like, "you're still the person with the most fragile shoulders I've ever seen." Yeah, well . . . hmm. I suppose there are worse fetishes you could have.

Michele

LOL! That was so...odd, and random...Did they really have a housekeeper named Desi?!

How bizarre, how bizarre.

[michelej1]

LOL! That was so...odd, and random...Did they really have a housekeeper named Desi?!



Carol said Desi was like a mother to her and Lindsey. Sounds like the makings of a great sitcom. The rock star, his beautiful girlfriend, and the crazy housekeeper who keeps them all in line.

Michele

[HomerMcvie]

I was just at the library the other day, but unless I go there with a list, any book I was recommended or had thought to look up is always forgotten. I'm going to read it eventually, I promise!

Done. :wavey:



I think I own every FM book. I constantly read at work, until we got wifi about 6 months ago. Now, it's just more needles, in my online addiction! :lol: Facebook is evil!

Made my day! :wavey:

[goldustsongbird]

I think I own every FM book. I constantly read at work, until we got wifi about 6 months ago. Now, it's just more needles, in my online addiction! :lol: Facebook is evil!

Made my day! :wavey:

Even Mick's book? More entertaining than facebook, though. I didn't even keep mine for two weeks. :p

[Nico]

I'd say the book was definitely an interesting read because it had a lot of information on things we would otherwise not know about. However, I dislike her quite obvious subjective portrayal of events: she's the innocent angel and everyone else has issues. I don't respect people who shade over their own transgressions when writing autobiographically. If you've chosen to go down that path, do it completely and fairly or don't do it at all. And if you must hide the horrible stuff then don't bring up everybody else's because it's too obvious.

Stevie came off as a flake in the truest sense. And I'm sure that wasn't by accident.

I thought Lindsey came off very human. He definitely had/has issues, but that is par for the course with brilliant artists. They are so fascinatingly screwed up in many ways. Anyway, I'll always adore the fact that he has said nothing about this and continues to live his life without a care in the world about CAH or her book.

I forgot how the other members were depicted, but I think I remember Dennis Wilson being a manwhore of sorts, or was that someone else's book?

[HomerMcvie]

Even Mick's book? More entertaining than facebook, though. I didn't even keep mine for two weeks. :p

Oh, Mick's is probably my favorite! Storms would be #2. I've got "Rumours" book, some FM discography book, Mick's coffee table picture book(two copies actually - the first one I bought was factory shrink wrapped, and I couldn't bear to open it). I think I've got one other, too......

My best friend just deleted his FB, even though his friends were begging him not to. He's a little paranoid, tbh, and he felt like everyone knew his business, because of FB.

[skuncles]

Oh, Mick's is probably my favorite! Storms would be #2. I've got "Rumours" book, some FM discography book, Mick's coffee table picture book(two copies actually - the first one I bought was factory shrink wrapped, and I couldn't bear to open it). I think I've got one other, too.......

One the better Mac bio's is "Headliner's ~ Fleetwood Mac" by Charley Walters. It came out in 1980 and is a very good read. That was the first Mac book I read, although at the time I had no interest in Fleetwood Mac. My mom got it in a "bonus giftbox" for buying a new vacuum cleaner.
One of the worst books is "The Complete Fleetwood Mac Sessions". The book says is supposed to be a run down of all of the Mac recording sessions, oddly enough it only mentions released material!! Not very complete if you ask me.
Another cruddy one is one called "The Fleetwood Mac Discography" or something and it reviews every Mac album. Along the way the author pretty much trashes every Stevie song while praising every Christine song.

[michelej1]

I forgot how the other members were depicted, but I think I remember Dennis Wilson being a manwhore of sorts, or was that someone else's book?

That was in this book, although he may have been portrayed the same way in others. CAH said that Dennis lied and told Christine that he slept with CAH, when he really hadn't.

Michele

[CADreaming]

Carol said Desi was like a mother to her and Lindsey. Sounds like the makings of a great sitcom. The rock star, his beautiful girlfriend, and the crazy housekeeper who keeps them all in line.

Michele

:laugh::laugh: LOVE IT!!

"It's Not THAT Funny, Is It?" starring Bill Hader from SNL as LB, who never speaks. He just sits around and doodles on the guitar, humming and making funny facial expressions while Carol Ann dresses up like Stevie all the time, wandering from room to room, in flowing black chiffon proclaiming her birthday is May 26th and how she should be a model since she looks just like Stevie Nicks. Wanda Sykes could play Desi...

I'd say the book was definitely an interesting read because it had a lot of information on things we would otherwise not know about. However, I dislike her quite obvious subjective portrayal of events: she's the innocent angel and everyone else has issues. I don't respect people who shade over their own transgressions when writing autobiographically. If you've chosen to go down that path, do it completely and fairly or don't do it at all. And if you must hide the horrible stuff then don't bring up everybody else's because it's too obvious.

Stevie came off as a flake in the truest sense. And I'm sure that wasn't by accident.

I thought Lindsey came off very human. He definitely had/has issues, but that is par for the course with brilliant artists. They are so fascinatingly screwed up in many ways. Anyway, I'll always adore the fact that he has said nothing about this and continues to live his life without a care in the world about CAH or her book.

I forgot how the other members were depicted, but I think I remember Dennis Wilson being a manwhore of sorts, or was that someone else's book?

Oh yeah? I would bet the lawyers had been all over that book like white on rice forever....the really good stuff may have been left out...

That was in this book, although he may have been portrayed the same way in others. CAH said that Dennis lied and told Christine that he slept with CAH, when he really hadn't.

Michele

Bwaaa! About that ocean front property in Arizona... ;)

[michelej1]

Bwaaa! About that ocean front property in Arizona... ;)

Oh, so you don't believe her?! Ha.

There was an old rumor going around that Christine found Dennis and CAH in bed. Carol must have heard it and she sought to address and quietly dispute it in her book.

Michele

[ButterCookie]

Oh, so you don't believe her?! Ha.

There was an old rumor going around that Christine found Dennis and CAH in bed. Carol must have heard it and she sought to address and quietly dispute it in her book.

Michele

Why on earth would he ever sleep/consider sleeping with CAH when he had Chris :confused::shocked:

[luckydimecaper]

I'm reading the preview on googlebooks now

I just found it on there too! Hopefully there's not too much of it omitted. Will have to save it for later to read though, got too much uni work to do atm, but looking forward to it :)

[goldustsongbird]

Oh, Mick's is probably my favorite! Storms would be #2. I've got "Rumours" book, some FM discography book, Mick's coffee table picture book(two copies actually - the first one I bought was factory shrink wrapped, and I couldn't bear to open it). I think I've got one other, too......

My best friend just deleted his FB, even though his friends were begging him not to. He's a little paranoid, tbh, and he felt like everyone knew his business, because of FB.

Someone posted a txt file of Mick's books, but I never got through it. The formatting makes for an even choppier read. :laugh:

If I ever reactivate my account, it'll be for lurking purposes only. lol. Twitter's enough for me, thank you, sir!

Why on earth would he ever sleep/consider sleeping with CAH when he had Chris :confused::shocked:

Right?! Obviously bull****.

[HomerMcvie]

Someone posted a txt file of Mick's books, but I never got through it. The formatting makes for an even choppier read. :laugh:

If I ever reactivate my account, it'll be for lurking purposes only. lol. Twitter's enough for me, thank you, sir!



Right?! Obviously bull****.Lord, I think you can buy Mick's book at half.com, for.....75 cents!!!!!! Hardcover!!!
http://product.half.ebay.com/Fleetwood_W0QQtgZinfoQQprZ1323953

[gypsy4life]

My book arrived!! Opinions to come....

[golddustgypsy09]

Is it bad that I bought this book when it first came out, read it, and loved it. I felt like I was reading one of those trashy supermarket novels that I consider myself to intellectual for (yet still love). I take it with a grain of salt, but really loved the book. Its poorly written and really trashy, but hey it appeals to the cheap side of me :)

[HomerMcvie]

One of the worst books is "The Complete Fleetwood Mac Sessions". The book says is supposed to be a run down of all of the Mac recording sessions, oddly enough it only mentions released material!! Not very complete if you ask me.

Is this one yellow? If so, I have it. I've only glanced through it a couple of times. I found it dirt cheap, in a used bookstore.

[chelluversu]

I'm reading the preview on googlebooks now-

i love how CAH describes Lindsey's hands - with long fingers, strong, but like the hands of an artist
i always thought Lindsey's hands were interesting.
And Rumours-era Lindsey sounds sooo adorable! Like i was reading it, and wished that it were Lindsey with his arms around me...*sigh*...ok, sorry, i went into teenage fangirl mode

I started reading the preview on googlebooks too and got really interested-- then got abruptly cut off which made me sad =[

[luckydimecaper]

^ Yeah me too! :( It just got to a cool bit at Eric Claptons mansion!
I actually enjoyed reading it! It is badly written and CAH seems to just be this innocent victom in the midst of it all. Maybe she was, I did feel quite sorry for her having to take coke to fit in with everybody just because she was "Lindsey's girl". I also found it amusing how much of a little bitch Stevie was depicted as.. but actually, I wouldn't be surprised if she WAS like that, as much as I love her.
Might have to get myself a copy!

[LittleCharmer]

I'm going to have to read this again when I get home for summer! I really enjoyed it first time round, though she's not the most enchanting of narrators..

[APerfectLie]

Was it just me, or did CAH seem to be a huge Stevie fan? I mean, I know she talked some **** about Stevie, but she talked a lot about Stevie and seemed to worship her in a sense. I just imagine CAH writing the book thinking, "God, I hope Stevie reads this and befriends me!!"

[StreetAngel95]

Personally, i enjoyed the way it was written. Not your normal biographical book. Moreso like a fanfiction, where i could feel emotions and such. I really wanted to be in CAH's position in certain parts...Teehee

[ButterCookie]

Personally, i enjoyed the way it was written. Not your normal biographical book. Moreso like a fanfiction, where i could feel emotions and such. I really wanted to be in CAH's position in certain parts...Teehee

Oh I'll bet ;)

[chelluversu]

^ Yeah me too! :( It just got to a cool bit at Eric Claptons mansion!
I actually enjoyed reading it! It is badly written and CAH seems to just be this innocent victom in the midst of it all. Maybe she was, I did feel quite sorry for her having to take coke to fit in with everybody just because she was "Lindsey's girl". I also found it amusing how much of a little bitch Stevie was depicted as.. but actually, I wouldn't be surprised if she WAS like that, as much as I love her.
Might have to get myself a copy!

I will buy a copy when I actually have money to do that lol. I am freeloading off of my mother for the time being :laugh:

Personally, i enjoyed the way it was written. Not your normal biographical book. Moreso like a fanfiction, where i could feel emotions and such. I really wanted to be in CAH's position in certain parts...Teehee

Lol. I'm pretty sure that, anywhere there was a Lindsey/Carol Ann moment, you wanted to be her -- minus the Stevie bitch moments lol

[Almost Simon]

It's a poorly writtem book, regardless of whether its truth or fiction. I got as far as the Rumours section I think, shortly after the band meet up with Eric Clapton for a drunken evening I think?? By that stage it was getting tiresome in its detail and emptyness. It wasnt telling me anything, felt like reading a dull diary.

Maybe I gave up too soon?? Not sure. I dont really feel inclined to return to the book. For the record I bought it cheap, £3 in a Fopp record shop, so no real loss to my wallet. Just pained to have spent so much time trying to read a very dull persons writings.

[MissLadyLoki]

I'll be honest: I found it to be very poorly written, full of plot holes, and very biased towards her, not to mention that 75% of it didn't feel that quite truthful, but it was hilarious.

[michelej1]

Just watched a Nicole Kidman interview and she was asked what she liked most about spending time with her baby and she said she loved her "little shoulders". When she sees her in the bath with those small shoulders, she just gets so much pleasure. She reminded me of Lindsey and CAH. What a strange, strange thing.

Michele

[Silver Springs]

I read the book for a little while, then I lost interest in it when it started to turn too dark for my tastes. Now it has gained a lifelong place as my go to "Spider Smasher" :p

[CADreaming]

Just watched a Nicole Kidman interview and she was asked what she liked most about spending time with her baby and she said she loved her "little shoulders". When she sees her in the bath with those small shoulders, she just gets so much pleasure. She reminded me of Lindsey and CAH. What a strange, strange thing.

Michele

Funny, I've noticed Stevie showing her shoulders off now too. She rocks the look, but it's strange for a woman her age and always makes me think of Lindsey's fetish. LOL.

[michelej1]

Funny, I've noticed Stevie showing her shoulders off now too. She rocks the look, but it's strange for a woman her age and always makes me think of Lindsey's fetish. LOL.

It's not enough to have shoulders for Lindsey. They have to be fragile. I think Stevie's may be a little too sturdy.

Actually though, if I had to make a guess as to what feature of Stevie's is Lindsey's favorite, I'd say her hair.

Cher has this habit of moving her hair out of her face and once in awhile, Sonny used to reach over and move it for her, which I thought would have made a really intense gesture -- if it hadn't been so staged on his part.

During the Tusk photo shoot, one of my favorite moments is when the photographer is telling Christine that her hair needs to be fluffier and then Lindsey leans over and fluffs it up for her. Stevie does too. I really get into stuff like that. That's my fetish.:laugh:

Michele

[CADreaming]

It's not enough to have shoulders for Lindsey. They have to be fragile. I think Stevie's may be a little too sturdy.

Actually though, if I had to make a guess as to what feature of Stevie's is Lindsey's favorite, I'd say her hair.

Cher has this habit of moving her hair out of her face and once in awhile, Sonny used to reach over and move it for her, which I thought would have made a really intense gesture -- if it hadn't been so staged on his part.

During the Tusk photo shoot, one of my favorite moments is when the photographer is telling Christine that her hair needs to be fluffier and then Lindsey leans over and fluffs it up for her. Stevie does too. I really get into stuff like that. That's my fetish.:laugh:

Michele

LOL! "Sturdy" shoulders! Just call her Sturdy Stevie.

Christine getting her hair fluffed by Lindsey & Stevie?!? They missed their calling. They could have gone into hair care together. Hair by Buckingham Nicks. Never enough fluff! :laugh:

[mezzoforte]

Ah, Carol Ann of the fragile shoulders. One of the book's odder stories, but certainly memorable!

I really wish she'd worked with a ghostwriter (or if she did, a better one)-- the book could have been so much better than it was. Certainly there was no shortage of stories to tell. But instead we got endless descriptions of drippy, melancholic romance.
Stevie'd better get around to writing that autobiography eventually. I'm still waiting for a decent telling of Fleetwood Mac.

[Artemis]

But instead we got endless descriptions of drippy, melancholic romance.
Stevie'd better get around to writing that autobiography eventually. I'm still waiting for a decent telling of Fleetwood Mac.

I think if Stevie ever writes her autobiography, the levels of drippiness and romanticism in hers will make Carol Ann's book look like a serious graphic novel. :laugh:

[mezzoforte]

I think if Stevie ever writes her autobiography, the levels of drippiness and romanticism in hers will make Carol Ann's book look like a serious graphic novel. :laugh:

Believe me, I don't disagree. But I think being higher-profile than Carol Ann (to put it mildly), she will likely have an excellent ghost writer, or a brilliant editor at the very least. Someone to rein in the drip and bring out the awesome. Eh, I'm an optimist.

[jellyman10]

It's not enough to have shoulders for Lindsey. They have to be fragile. I think Stevie's may be a little too sturdy.



Oh, I can't let that go! :laugh:

Shoulders and back were practically all the flesh Stevie EVER showed, for years and years, and I'll bet that that was at least partly because she knew very well that a) hers looked rather fine and b) her looking rather fine would wind LB up! :]

Each to their own, of course, but even today 'sturdy' isn't a word that comes to mind when I see a wee bit of shoulder peeking outa SN's top!

I am a freak.

[michelej1]

Each to their own, of course, but even today 'sturdy' isn't a word that comes to mind when I see a wee bit of shoulder peeking outa SN's top!

I am a freak.


Yeah, ok. Stevie does not have workhorse shoulders.

I think everyone thinks it's a fine moment in SOTM when Stevie is bending over singing and Lindsey just comes and lies on her back.

That's pretty hot.

Michele

[Villavic]

I have to say this. The more I learn about this woman, the more I think she was just an attention seeking groupie! I mean, she just seems so fake to me.
I have been thinking of reading her book, so, I have been doing a little research before I pay good money for it.
I'm sure some of you have read it. What do you think?

Carol's book has lot of interesting, curious stories, like the night at Eric Clapton's home. But to me it's more like a collection of episodes, and almost gossip. I never "got hooked" to the book, actually never finished.

Mick Fleetwood's book is far better, looks more authentic (though I know many people questioned it) and very good written. I've read it lot of times, the first time I read it continously for several hours until I fell asleep (actually i bought in Europe so I started it in the 15 hours flight :thumbsup:)

[mezzoforte]

Carol's book has lot of interesting, curious stories, like the night at Eric Clapton's home. But to me it's more like a collection of episodes, and almost gossip. I never "got hooked" to the book, actually never finished.

Mick Fleetwood's book is far better, looks more authentic (though I know many people questioned it) and very good written. I've read it lot of times, the first time I read it continously for several hours until I fell asleep (actually i bought in Europe so I started it in the 15 hours flight :thumbsup:)


Those little stories were fun--probably my favorite part of the book. You're right about it feeling like episodes, though--it really wasn't cohesive at all. I don't think she's much of a storyteller.
I'm not sure, though, what made the book so boring. Since it's a topic all of us here are obviously interested in, you would think it would hold a little more interest, in spite of the princess-y tone. The "groupie" comment is an interesting one. She obviously wasn't--they did have a real, long-term relationship. But because the books lacks introspection, it does feel like she didn't really know the band (aside from Lindsey) at all, in spite of touring with them for years. She talks endlessly about being in the inner circle, and no doubt she was, but she writes as though blithely detached from it.

This is, BTW, the most positive review of Mick's book I've heard. I've considered reading it, but heard it was dull and unreliable. You recommend it, though?

[jellyman10]

This is, BTW, the most positive review of Mick's book I've heard. I've considered reading it, but heard it was dull and unreliable. You recommend it, though?

I agree, that's about the nicest thing I've read on here about Mick's book!

I've read it and my feeling is that the emotional and personal content of it is very likely to be largely true, but it's been very poorly copy edited (I know, because that's my day job). What this means is that some people have taken the inclusion of factual inaccuracy to imply that there are inaccuracies of other, perhaps more important, kinds as well.

I think that's a risky assumption, rather like me telling you that I had the worst meal of my life at a certain restaurant but you don't believe me because I get the date I was there wrong.

As for CAH, I agree she doesn't qualify for the label of 'groupie' as I would ever understand it. I also think she, too, cops a lot of flak for a poor copy-editor - and also because some LB fans are upset by her accounts of LB's aggression towards her.

By the way, there's a thread somewhere that had a full text file of Mick's book.

Loz

[Villavic]

This is, BTW, the most positive review of Mick's book I've heard. I've considered reading it, but heard it was dull and unreliable. You recommend it, though?

I strongly recommend it. I found it far more interesting and enjoyable than Bob Brunning (a good book, too) and Carol Ann's.

I couldn't detect unrealiable info. The most controversial episode (at least controversial for ledgies, as I recall all those threads) was the day Lindsey left the band, August 7, 1987.

Several ledgies said it was impossible Lindsey reacted that way, even that Lindsey grabbed Stevie and slapped her. But I never found any interview where the members denied that. In fact I found where Stevie talks about it and describes the angry situation (something about she would call her brother if he touches her again). And John also confirmed he said to Lindsey I think you'd better leave now. Though he meant the room, not the band ha haa.

Mick's description about Lindsey & John didn't go along the first sessions was also confirmed by themselves. Lot of info was confirmed. Maybe he exaggerates some points and numbers, the typical emotion and because he always loved that band, but I don't find it dull and unreliable at all.

[michelej1]

Several ledgies said it was impossible Lindsey reacted that way, even that Lindsey grabbed Stevie and slapped her. But I never found any interview where the members denied that.

Lindsey denies that that ever happened. And Stevie never said he slapped her either when she described what happened. On that Rock Family Tree special, she said she's really ferocious and flew off the couch to "seriously attack him" and grabbed him. Once she did, he started chasing her around Christine's house and outside and up the block and then once he caught her he threw her against the car. That's when she screamed at him and said she thought he was going to kill her and he probably thought he was going to kill her too. She says she told him her father and brother would get him if he did -- if the rest of the band didn't kill him.

As for CAH's book, some of the things I find incredible have little to do with Lindsey and it's not about location, dates or chronology either. I do wonder why she says the Rolling Stone photo shoot with the band in bed took place in her house and in her bed. That's a hard thing to remember incorrectly, but the place is just one discrepancy. Her description of the event differs from the band members and from Annie's.

Then, little things like her saying she was standing in the wings during a concert wearing a see-through dress and the crowd saw her and started reacting to her and she inadvertently stole the spotlight from Stevie. Please. I just find it hard to believe that anything like that remotely happened. She may have been wearing a transparent skirt and someone whistled at her, but all eyes in the Fleetwood Mac crowd did not turn turn to her. Forget the fact that she got the chronology wrong. It's that her book is full of descriptions of events that are so ridiculously flattering to herself that make me discount its credibility.

Michele

[jellyman10]

Lindsey denies that that ever happened. And Stevie never said he slapped her either when she described what happened.

My impression is that both LB and SN are or have been very careful what they say about 'that day', and that SN always takes care to emphasise that he was provoked rather than focusing on what he actually did. But we really could go all round the houses on this .... I'm of the school that thinks he did have a problem with his temper around women, but he recognised it and it's ok now. I respect anyone who sorts themselves out like that.

As for CAH's book, some of the things I find incredible have little to do with Lindsey and it's not about location, dates or chronology either.

It's that her book is full of descriptions of events that are so ridiculously flattering to herself that make me discount its credibility.
Michele

I totally agree with you here. The actual content of CAH's book is far more questionable than Mick's, but the real problem is not that you can't believe any of it, it's that some of it is almost certainly true!

The annoying thing for all of us who spend too much time thinking about these matters is that it's impossible to know which bits they are, but some people don't really admit that. I mean, sometimes on here it's almost like I could say 'Fleetwood Mac released an album in 1977 called Rumours - I know that because it's in Carol Ann Harris's book' and someone will pop up and say 'Well, I wouldn't put any store in that, because she's was a cokehead and her book's full of lies.'

I guess people just have to read it themselves and draw their own conclusions, really?:shrug:

Loz

[Silver Springs]

I guess people just have to read it themselves and draw their own conclusions, really?:shrug:

Loz

Alot of what has been discussed in the thread thus far is exactly why I refuse to read anymore of Carol's book. I'm the first to admit how sensitive I am when it comes to reading about my idols, and especially so idols who I hold in the highest of esteem. I try to avoid anything that could shatter my rose tinted spectacles. Having said that, I'm not naive enough to not know some of the more grim aspects of the band. I know perfectly well that they're not saintly, at least they weren't in their heyday. But rather than upset myself to the point of turning myself off of them and ruining the whole experience for myself, I choose not to dwell on what has happened. I guess it's an embodiment of the "Never meet your Idols" advice, really. You get to know them to such an extent that the enjoyment and esteem you had for them dissipates, and such familiarity more often than not breeds contempt.

[jellyman10]

I guess it's an embodiment of the "Never meet your Idols" advice, really.

Quite so. If I'd had my wits about me I would have said I guess people just have to read it - or not! Couldn't agree more. :thumbsup:

[michelej1]

My impression is that both LB and SN are or have been very careful what they say about 'that day', and that SN always takes care to emphasise that he was provoked rather than focusing on what he actually did.

At the time that Stevie said that, she was at odds with the band and had lots of negative things to say. It wasn't a diplomatic period for her. Plus,
I doubt she'd be careful about what she said regarding that 1987 incident, when her description of him kicking and throwing the guitar at her has only become more elaborate over the years, not less so. She's not really careful at all.

Michele

[jellyman10]

At the time that Stevie said that, she was at odds with the band and had lots of negative things to say. It wasn't a diplomatic period for her. Plus,
I doubt she'd be careful about what she said regarding that 1987 incident, when her description of him kicking and throwing the guitar at her has only become more elaborate over the years, not less so. She's not really careful at all.

Michele

Hmm. I'd be genuinely interested to see what your sources are for saying this, because it's really not the impression I get, and I've read and seen just about everything!:o

We'll just disagree, then, unless you care to persuade me with evidence (and I am definitely persuadable - I love to have my mind changed!)

Loz

[PenguinHead]

I've expressed my opinion on Carol Ann (I'll leave out my nickname for her, because some people get offended :cool:) and her book many times. I say regardless of what you think of her, read the book. Realize you must take every single thing she says with a grain of salt. Look more at the big picture. I think overall, she weaves a pretty accurate tapestry of at least the way the band interacted during it's heyday. I wouldn't give any specific events she mentions much credence at all. Despite that, I think this is still a must read for any avid Mac fan. It's pure gossipy trashy fun... and that's what the Mac is all about! :laugh:

I agree with you. Almost all autobiographies or tell-all books are part fact and part fiction. I like the book because, as you say, it does paint a very good eye-witness account of social dynamic of the group, as well as individual characteristics.

I love when Carol describes the situation when Lindsey suffered a seizure during a huge outdoor show. He ended up the hospital for a few days, a couple of scheduled shows were cancelled, and no one from the band ever visited Lindsey.

In bizzare attempt to show Carol empathy to what was a potentially tragic situation, Stevie related a similar experience: when her dog was left in a sunroom and almost died from the heat. :laugh: Carol shared the weird story with Lindsey, who exclaimed that Stevie was crazy.

I absolutely see Stevie saying that!

[MissLadyLoki]

I agree with you. Almost all autobiographies or tell-all books are part fact and part fiction. I like the book because, as you say, it does paint a very good eye-witness account of social dynamic of the group, as well as individual characteristics.

I love when Carol describes the situation when Lindsey suffered a seizure during a huge outdoor show. He ended up the hospital for a few days, a couple of scheduled shows were cancelled, and no one from the band ever visited Lindsey.

In bizzare attempt to show Carol empathy to what was a potentially tragic situation, Stevie related a similar experience: when her dog was left in a sunroom and almost died from the heat. :laugh: Carol shared the weird story with Lindsey, who exclaimed that Stevie was crazy.

I absolutely see Stevie saying that!


Like the book or not, that part had me rolling. I could even see CAH, standing around all upset and Stevie, stoned out of her mind, telling her the story, and the look on her face :laugh:

[CADreaming]

Like the book or not, that part had me rolling. I could even see CAH, standing around all upset and Stevie, stoned out of her mind, telling her the story, and the look on her face :laugh:

You mean you could see CAH stoned out of her mind, standing around and Stevie stoned out of her mind telling her the story...

Two peas in a very proverbial pod. ;)

[CADreaming]

At the time that Stevie said that, she was at odds with the band and had lots of negative things to say. It wasn't a diplomatic period for her. Plus,
I doubt she'd be careful about what she said regarding that 1987 incident, when her description of him kicking and throwing the guitar at her has only become more elaborate over the years, not less so. She's not really careful at all.

Michele

She gets sloppy at times (or just loopy) but she's careful when it behooves her to be so.

[michelej1]

Hmm. I'd be genuinely interested to see what your sources are for saying this, because it's really not the impression I get, and I've read and seen just about everything!:o

We'll just disagree, then, unless you care to persuade me with evidence (and I am definitely persuadable - I love to have my mind changed!)

Loz

What do you mean what's my source? I'm not relaying backstage gossip. I'm talking about interviews Stevie has given. In that Rock Family tree interview, she is dissing all of FM to the point where even John objects and complains that according to her everything about FM was bad and he says her version is all lies.

If you look at the entire Rock Family tree interview (transcript from the video) in which she describes the 1987 fight, she's negative about everything she says about FM. Based on the timing of that interview, when she was mad at both Lindsey and Mick, I don't think she would be careful about what she said Lindsey did to her.

Moreover, in that interview she says she thought he was going to kill her. That's pretty extreme. That's not pulling punches. I don't know why she'd lie and say she provoked it when she didn't or not say he slapped her, if she's going to say he killed her.

I compared that to her descriptions of the earlier New Zealand incidents where she said he kicked her or something (in the earlier interviews October 30, 1997 Rolling Stone, she didn't remember exactly what he did, but said he must have kicked her or something) and then around the time of SYW she started adding to that description and said that he threw a guitar at her on stage in New Zealand and she ducked and that's why it missed her. Her version of the New Zealand incident has gained more details over time. In Mojo 2007 she said,


“I think I was singing through one of his solos or something, and he walked across the stage and kicked me and then went back to his microphone and we just sort of went on with the show. Me being pretty much the ultimate professional, I’m like, OK that didn’t just happen, it was just a joke everybody. Then he threw his guitar at me, wwwosh! I saw it coming and ducked. And he would have killed me if it had hit me; a Les Paul weighs about 30lbs.


It's not like she makes a habit of protecting Lindsey by changing the violent descriptions of events Mick has given. Her version of the August 1987 incident is violent enough, it's just not the same as Mick's version. Since she was one of the 2 people involved in the fight I believe her over Mick and based on other things she has said about Lindsey's temper, I don't think she softened the events of 1987 to protect him, especially not when she gave the interview, when she and Lindsey weren't talking, she wasn't with FM and was not saying favorable things about her days with the band. Michele

[iamnotafraid]

Unless they have video proof of this guitar throwing incident,
I don't believe it.

It does sound like a Stevie story though, those Les Paul's
weigh a third of what she suggested.

If he threw a guitar at her, she was nuts to stay.

[David]

Unless they have video proof of this guitar throwing incident, I don't believe it.I believe one of those Down Under Tusk shows featured a drunken Lindsey who did a Stevie dance with his jacket during "Rhiannon." I believe Christine's corroboration of the anger the band all felt about it because it embarrassed all of them. Stuff like that probably happened more than once during the heavy touring years. It happens in other bands regularly, so why shouldn't it happen in Fleetwood Mac?

But throwing a guitar at the sexy lead singer? Rolling Stone would have written that up in Random Notes way back in 1980!

It does sound like a Stevie story though, those Les Paul's
weigh a third of what she suggested.Stevie's probably got the story wrong--& definitely got the guitar wrong. There was no Les Paul onstage in 1980.

[Nikolaj]

Wow, this thread just keeps coming back and back, but the fact that Michelej1 writes here makes me lurk though I've never written anything here before- Someone questioned Michele? Of course that person has a right, and said he liked to have his mind changed. I bet she did it.
Michelej1 doesn't get things wrong. She just doesn't. And she's nice, too. Never met her in my life, I just know.
No, I am not kissing up; nyet. I am being helpful. Yes, you do!
The initials of the writer of this book in question spelled backwards incorrectly, kind of sums her up, whether or not it's "k" to think so. I think I think so. Michele, let me know!
Now, I want to go back and see if that guy told Miss Michele that she indeed did convince him of what she was right about.
Admit it, Mister :)
- I know it can be tough, soon I have to go back to another forum and concur that the 'How Still My Love' scarf dance was sexy, just as Michelej1 said. I was wrong to say I thought SN looked silly, like she was dusting an enormous, invisible Wardrobe and it looked like she was going to spray the scarf with Lemon Pledge any second. But she never wanted to be a cleaning lady, she wanted to be a star, I forgot.
Imagine how I feel, I was so sure.

[Nikolaj]

Not trying to change anyone's minds, think as you do, of course. So, I'll just do the same.
I believe Lindsey did kick Stevie, did throw a guitar at her, no matter if it was a Les Paul or not, did choke her against the automobile the day he left Fleetwood Mac in '87- and Christine confirmed years ago that she chased LB from the stage to the dressing room when he performed the ghastly 'Rhiannon' spoof at the band's expense during a concert.
I also believe SN at times provoked Lindsey.
In the past, many years ago, I believe LB was violent against women he was involved with, yes. Much of it could have been substance abuse related, or perhaps there are issues from his childhood, abusers often have been abused or have witnessed it. I believe he got help, or changed, or SN wouldn't be working with him.
Stevie, Mick, John and Christine all have made public statements that the various instances did take place. I don't think all four of them would lie.
The man is flawed. They all are, we all are.
I know nothing. But 4 people of the 5 gave accounts very similar to each other, at very different times, over the years. LB probably has a lot on them, too. I don't think that Mick, John, Christine and Stevie all lied.

[jellyman10]

Someone questioned Michele? Of course that person has a right, and said he liked to have his mind changed. I bet she did it.
Michelej1 doesn't get things wrong. She just doesn't. And she's nice, too. Never met her in my life, I just know.

Now, I want to go back and see if that guy told Miss Michele that she indeed did convince him of what she was right about.
Admit it, Mister :)


:lol::lol:

Don't worry, it's all good, Nikolaj. I've been sleeping, that's all! I live in Scotland and it was gone 1.00 a.m. when I last posted (now about 6.30 a.m. and the first thing is, I'm back on the Ledge, ha ha).

Has Michele changed my mind? No, not really, regarding my original assertion that, taken over the whole piece, both LB and SN are very careful about what they say about the day of the argument in 1987. It could just be that our judgement of what 'careful' means doesn't agree, but I still think they talk around it, and that that's deliberate.

Has Michele changed my mind about whether SN has embellished and changed the guitar-chucking episode? Yes, I think so. And I also think that she's absolutely right to bring up that the state of SN-FM relations colours what she says. :nod:

Two other wee points: I think the HSML dance is sexy, too. And I'm a woman. (I registered when I was trolleyed one night listening to Tusk, used a name that's a private joke and now have to live my whole Ledgie life with it! :rolleyes:)

[jellyman10]

What do you mean what's my source? I'm not relaying backstage gossip. I'm talking about interviews Stevie has given. Michele

I'm sorry if asking for sources sounded more aggressive than I meant it. I do a lot of work for academics and publishers and it just means 'what are you basing your opinion on?' to me. I really do have an open mind on most things, but I guess sometimes it must come over like a challenge rather than a request? :sorry:

Thanks for taking the time to bring some quotes. I respect that (and feel respected by it) so much, it's completely pathetic, and when I don't have so much work to do I'll be back to the Blue Letter Archives and on YouTube trying to work out my new 'policy paper' on all of this! :o

You'll see in my other reply to Nikolaj where I'm at now, with it. Hope that's ok.

Cheerie,
Loz

[iamnotafraid]

There was no Les Paul onstage in 1980.

What about Mary Ford?

And I wish I could see that Stevie dance
that Lindsey did.


I haven't read all the post in this thread,
so is the guitar throwing story in Harris'
book? POV are so enlightening.

[Nikolaj]

:lol::lol:

Don't worry, it's all good, Nikolaj. I've been sleeping, that's all! I live in Scotland and it was gone 1.00 a.m. when I last posted (now about 6.30 a.m. and the first thing is, I'm back on the Ledge, ha ha).

Has Michele changed my mind? No, not really, regarding my original assertion that, taken over the whole piece, both LB and SN are very careful about what they say about the day of the argument in 1987. It could just be that our judgement of what 'careful' means doesn't agree, but I still think they talk around it, and that that's deliberate.

Has Michele changed my mind about whether SN has embellished and changed the guitar-chucking episode? Yes, I think so. And I also think that she's absolutely right to bring up that the state of SN-FM relations colours what she says. :nod:

Two other wee points: I think the HSML dance is sexy, too. And I'm a woman. (I registered when I was trolleyed one night listening to Tusk, used a name that's a private joke and now have to live my whole Ledgie life with it! :rolleyes:)

Thanks, Miss/Ms. Jellyman for the very nice reply and clarifications. I'm glad you knew there was an attempt at humor in what I wrote.
Of course, your points are beautifully stated and very interesting, and hot dang, there's another good writer to enjoy on The Ledge. There's quite a number of exceptionally interesting bardscribes here.
So, you were "trolleyed" were you? I love that! Never heard the term before, but it requires no translation! More, please.
I am so sorry I called you 'Mister', yikes. I'm on a Mister kick, lately. I should stop.
Oh, and, you wrote 'the first thing is, I'm back on The Ledge'-- that's a really good sign- your life is over! Kidding of course, see it's 4:57 a.m. as I type. Some of us go to bed when others like you wake up at 6:30 am, others never seem to sleep...except when I drone on. I know, hard to imagine, but it's happened.
Oh, ok, ok, it was sexy, already! Everybody says so! What was I thinking? :)

[CADreaming]

You know, not to start anything, but Lindsey kicks at Stevie even now. She just keeps her distance, stays on her side of the stage. Smart gal. ;)

<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/y94-9t1rKf4?rel=0" frameborder="0"></iframe>

(see 4:20's for kicking action)

[jellyman10]

Thanks, Miss/Ms. Jellyman for the very nice reply and clarifications. I'm glad you knew there was an attempt at humor in what I wrote.
Of course, your points are beautifully stated and very interesting, and hot dang, there's another good writer to enjoy on The Ledge. There's quite a number of exceptionally interesting bardscribes here.
So, you were "trolleyed" were you? I love that! Never heard the term before, but it requires no translation! More, please.
I am so sorry I called you 'Mister', yikes. I'm on a Mister kick, lately. I should stop.
Oh, and, you wrote 'the first thing is, I'm back on The Ledge'-- that's a really good sign- your life is over! Kidding of course, see it's 4:57 a.m. as I type. Some of us go to bed when others like you wake up at 6:30 am, others never seem to sleep...except when I drone on. I know, hard to imagine, but it's happened.
Oh, ok, ok, it was sexy, already! Everybody says so! What was I thinking? :)

Thank you very much, Nikolaj. I always like to read your posts - even the 'droning' ones. ;)

Here's to many more good discussions and laughs in future here. :blob1:

Loz

[vivfox]

I'm a woman. (I registered when I was trolleyed one night listening to Tusk, used a name that's a private joke and now have to live my whole Ledgie life with it! :rolleyes:)


Glad you cleared that up. I thought you were a man also. We just found out this week that MacShadowsBall is a man also. I totally thought he was a woman.

[David]

I believe Lindsey did kick Stevie, did throw a guitar at her, no matter if it was a Les Paul or not, Why didn't the 1990 book (which was the very first mention ever of the New Zealand incident) mention the guitar being thrown?

It certainly wasn't because Mick & Stephen Davis were holding back.

[jellyman10]

Glad you cleared that up. I thought you were a man also. We just found out this week that MacShadowsBall is a man also. I totally thought he was a woman.

I know, usernames can be confusing, or just daft in my case. Anyway, yes, female I am indeed.

I'm totally gonna pimp my profile when I get a minute, too. I love all the pics and gifs and all that. :)

Loz

[michelej1]

I believe one of those Down Under Tusk shows featured a drunken Lindsey who did a Stevie dance with his jacket during "Rhiannon." I believe Christine's corroboration of the anger the band all felt about it because it embarrassed all of them. Stuff like that probably happened more than once during the heavy touring years. It happens in other bands regularly, so why shouldn't it happen in Fleetwood Mac?

But throwing a guitar at the sexy lead singer? Rolling Stone would have written that up in Random Notes way back in 1980!



I think Lindsey threw a guitar at her, but not on stage. The reason I think it happened is that during the SYW tour when they did the Mojo interview one of them outright said to the other, "Remember when you threw that Les Paul at me?" Now, the way the article was written, you couldn't tell if Stevie or Lindsey was speaking. But I assume it was Stevie. The Mojo writer also didn't say what the other person's response was. However, if Stevie asked Lindsey in front of a reporter if he remembered throwing a guitar at her, I guess it probably happened.

I don't think it happened on stage though, because, as you said, it would have been in the press. Mick said that in New Zealand the audience thought what Lindsey did was part of the show. But if he'd thrown a guitar at her, I think it would have earned a mention in the media.

In 1997 she said to Rolling Stone,

That wasn't the only psychodrama Australia would see; one evening, as Nicks performed her patented witchy dance on "Rhiannon," twirling under her hooded poncho, Buckingham wrenched his jacket over his head and began dancing in a crude, crowlike imitation of her. "Lindsey was angry - just mad at me," recalls Nicks. "That wasn't a one-time thing. Lindsey and I had another huge thing that happened onstage in New Zealand. We had some kind of a fight, and he came over - might have kicked me, did something to me, and we stopped the show. He went off, and we all ran at breakneck speed back to the dressing room to see who could kill him first. Christine got to him first, and then I got to him second - the bodyguards were trying to get in the middle of all of us."

So, years later she said he threw a guitar at her and aside from the fact that I don't think it happened on stage in New Zealand, I also don't believe she was able to duck and avoid it. The whole scenario made me conclude she had been watching too many ninja movies.

Crouching Stevie Hidden Gibson.

Michele

[michelej1]

What about Mary Ford?

And I wish I could see that Stevie dance
that Lindsey did.


I haven't read all the post in this thread,
so is the guitar throwing story in Harris'
book? POV are so enlightening.

No, not in Carol's book. Although Carol has her own guitar story. She says Lindsey was going to teach Stevie how to play GYOW (I think) and Stevie got jealous of Carol and couldn't concentrate. Stevie and Lindsey fought and Stevie stalked off in a huff.

Michele

[michelej1]

You know, not to start anything, but Lindsey kicks at Stevie even now. She just keeps her distance, stays on her side of the stage. Smart gal. ;)



I questioned the wisdom of Lindsey swinging his amplifier cord at Stevie during the SYW tour. He wasn't doing it to menace her, but I'm not sure why he was doing it. It stopped towards the end of the tour.

Michele

[michelej1]

I was wrong to say I thought SN looked silly, like she was dusting an enormous, invisible Wardrobe and it looked like she was going to spray the scarf with Lemon Pledge any second. But she never wanted to be a cleaning lady, she wanted to be a star, I forgot.
Imagine how I feel, I was so sure.

Staged gestures can hit or miss. Probably the most sexy is the spontaneous moments. The BTM made me think of the SYW dance and the little lasso move. How quaint and unnatural it looks. But it was fun at the time.

Of course, I've a great bias in favor of HSML anyway. I love the part where she's saying it's me that's talking to you in the still of the night, it's always me, so by the time she gets to the scarf dance, I'm already thinking sultry. That no doubt lends to the scarf perceptions.
Michele

[Villavic]

I compared that to her descriptions of the earlier New Zealand incidents where she said he kicked her or something (in the earlier interviews October 30, 1997 Rolling Stone, she didn't remember exactly what he did, but said he must have kicked her or something) and then around the time of SYW she started adding to that description and said that he threw a guitar at her on stage in New Zealand and she ducked and that's why it missed her. Her version of the New Zealand incident has gained more details over time.

Mick describes also that episode in his book. He also kind of justifies the behavior:

In mid-March we flew off to New Zealand to play in front of sixty thousand fans in Auckland. The show also went out live over the radio to the rest of the country. By then, the exhaustion of constant travel began to set in, and we were all pretty brainfried. Lindsey hit the old scotch bottle a little too hard before the concert, and halfway through the performance he snapped like a guitar string tuned ten octaves too high. First I noticed that he was playing out of tune.
Then he started to clown around and mimic Stevie while she was dancing around the stage. Then, while she was hunched over, upstage of Lindsey, during her "Rhiannon" performance, he stopped playing and pulled his jacket over his head in a grotesque imitation of her pose. At that point he lost all control, playing anything except "Rhiannon," laughing like a madman. Then he started to kick Stevie while she was trying to salvage the number. Sixty thousand people were watching! Lindsey would flick his foot at her and Stevie would shy away, trying to cover up his stoned-out behavior to save us all from dying of embarrassment. The rest of the band could only look at each other in disbelief.

The show finally over, we stumbled into the stadium's rugby changing rooms, where we were dressing. There would be no encore that night: we were all freaked out. I could hear the crowd screaming for more as Christine McVie stormed into the room, utterly hell-bent, and made straight for Mr. Buckingham, who was slumped miserably on a bench. Lindsey stood up, and Chris smacked him crack! right in the face. Then she threw her drink at him for good measure. "Don't you ever do this to this band again," she shouted. "Ever! Is that clear?" Then she stormed out again.

Silence. Then someone pulled on my sleeve to tell me I had to go on live radio ta say a few words and I'm completely traumatised! They shoved me into a trailer and started to ask questions. I dreaded talking about the incident with Lindsey, but it turned out they either didn't notice it or thought
his behavior was part of the act, or just a joke.

[CADreaming]

Then he started to kick Stevie while she was trying to salvage the number. Sixty thousand people were watching! Lindsey would flick his foot at her and Stevie would shy away, trying to cover up his stoned-out behavior to save us all from dying of embarrassment.

Is this also the supposed guitar flinging/throwing/almost killing Stevie incident?

Mick or the ghostwriter did a great job of embellishing, I think. Seems like Lindsey was "flicking" his foot at her - not actually kicking her. Just like the video I posted, he still kicks his foot at her. It's part of his schtick. She points at him angrily and he kicks his foot.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LxvwZDQ3O28?rel=0" frameborder="0"></iframe>

If he would only do his Rhiannon dance now, my life would be complete. He already does an excellent version of lip synching Stand Back. I think Lindsey is really one chiffon dress away from headlining Night of a Thousand Stevies.:laugh:

[mezzoforte]

Is this also the supposed guitar flinging/throwing/almost killing Stevie incident?

Mick or the ghostwriter did a great job of embellishing, I think. Seems like Lindsey was "flicking" his foot at her - not actually kicking her. Just like the video I posted, he still kicks his foot at her. It's part of his schtick. She points at him angrily and he kicks his foot.



Mick's version of the kicking incident is actually very consistent with Carol Ann's book, from what I remember. Carol Ann didn't actually witness it (she missed the Australian tour--illness, I think), but Sara Recor (later Fleetwood), her best friend, called Carol to explain how Lindsey fell apart and turned violent on stage. The story was essentially identical to Mick's. Neither of them made it sound like it was a casual flicking thing, as in the video. I'd type it up, but the book's at my parents' house.

I don't think anyone but Stevie has talked about a guitar incident, though. I think Michele's idea has legs: he may have thrown the guitar, just not on stage at that particular concert. If it happened, it would have been a totally different incident.

[CADreaming]

Mick's version of the kicking incident is actually very consistent with Carol Ann's book, from what I remember. Carol Ann didn't actually witness it (she missed the Australian tour--illness, I think), but Sara Recor (later Fleetwood), her best friend, called Carol to explain how Lindsey fell apart and turned violent on stage. The story was essentially identical to Mick's. Neither of them made it sound like it was a casual flicking thing, as in the video. I'd type it up, but the book's at my parents' house.

I don't think anyone but Stevie has talked about a guitar incident, though. I think Michele's idea has legs: he may have thrown the guitar, just not on stage at that particular concert. If it happened, it would have been a totally different incident.

I have the book. I just didn't bother to read most of it. Persued it. I was just pointing out that the kicking was also simultaneously described as "flicking" and in various descriptions, it was never clear if he actually kicked her or just kicked AT her.

Anything can happen when people are wasted.

[David]

Mick's version of the kicking incident is actually very consistent with Carol Ann's book, from what I remember. Carol Ann didn't actually witness it (she missed the Australian tour--illness, I think), but Sara Recor (later Fleetwood), her best friend, called Carol to explain how Lindsey fell apart and turned violent on stage. The story was essentially identical to Mick's. Neither of them made it sound like it was a casual flicking thing, as in the video. Did you hear how Mick described the "kick" on "The Inside Track with Graham Nash" TV show in 1990?

[mezzoforte]

I have the book. I just didn't bother to read most of it. Persued it. I was just pointing out that the kicking was also simultaneously described as "flicking" and in various descriptions, it was never clear if he actually kicked her or just kicked AT her.

Anything can happen when people are wasted.

*shrugs* Agree to disagree. IMO, both accounts sounded basically horrified, so I'm assuming that even if his leg didn't actually make contact, it was considerably more threatening than the current, sober incarnation. But you're right that Mick's story doesn't specifically state that he physically harmed her on stage.

Did you hear how Mick described the "kick" on "The Inside Track with Graham Nash" TV show in 1990?

Nope. Do tell!

[Nikolaj]

Why didn't the 1990 book (which was the very first mention ever of the New Zealand incident) mention the guitar being thrown?

It certainly wasn't because Mick & Stephen Davis were holding back.


I think that's a good point you raise, David.
I'd say that you would know as well or better than anyone (me) who reached conclusions from the old war stories.
Come to think of it; had SN been kicked on stage by LB, and had a guitar thrown at her, I don't think a 'show must go on' mentality would have kept her performing along, what a giving performer. Human nature would have had to factor in- I think she'd have grabbed a handy SOTM triangle or a tambo or just given a high kick to his lower regions with those nutcracker boots. SN doesn't uh - strike me- as someone who would just take it.
Maybe David and others- notafraid, I think it was- are right. Even with the band on the other side of the world, it likely would have made news, somewhere.
And no-one at the NZ concert seemed to "notice" a kick or a flying guitar?
It is possible that the 'Rhiannon impersonation' which seems for sure to be true, was embellished to include a kick and a tossed guitar.
Maybe that was the point of David and others- just saw that this CAH thread kept coming back to near the top of the Rumours forum, so read a bit of it last night, but not all of it. Not the best way to approach leaving an informed reply of any substance. I'm sorry.
'Rumours' don't convict a person, and the proof does seems vague.

[michelej1]

The Graham Nash interview that David mentioned is on You Tube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDgt3wcmhk0

[jellyman10]

I think Michele's idea has legs: he may have thrown the guitar, just not on stage at that particular concert. If it happened, it would have been a totally different incident.

I agree with this, too. :nod:

[MissLadyLoki]

I think that's a good point you raise, David.
I'd say that you would know as well or better than anyone (me) who reached conclusions from the old war stories.
Come to think of it; had SN been kicked on stage by LB, and had a guitar thrown at her, I don't think a 'show must go on' mentality would have kept her performing along, what a giving performer. Human nature would have had to factor in- I think she'd have grabbed a handy SOTM triangle or a tambo or just given a high kick to his lower regions with those nutcracker boots. SN doesn't uh - strike me- as someone who would just take it.
Maybe David and others- notafraid, I think it was- are right. Even with the band on the other side of the world, it likely would have made news, somewhere.
And no-one at the NZ concert seemed to "notice" a kick or a flying guitar?It is possible that the 'Rhiannon impersonation' which seems for sure to be true, was embellished to include a kick and a tossed guitar.
Maybe that was the point of David and others- just saw that this CAH thread kept coming back to near the top of the Rumours forum, so read a bit of it last night, but not all of it. Not the best way to approach leaving an informed reply of any substance. I'm sorry.
'Rumours' don't convict a person, and the proof does seems vague.

That right there seals it for it probably not having happened. if it had happened, it certainly would've been on the news in at least NZ or have heard accounts from somebody who saw it go down (for example, CAH talks about Lindsey spinning on his back while playing a solo is true in that someone once spoke about seeing it and talking about how it topped off the awesomeness of their first Mac show and Spinal Tap even made fun of it), but the fact that it coincidently came out when Mick's book was written and was never heard about before does make a me a little suspicious.

[Sapphire Girl]

That right there seals it for it probably not having happened. if it had happened, it certainly would've been on the news in at least NZ or have heard accounts from somebody who saw it go down (for example, CAH talks about Lindsey spinning on his back while playing a solo is true in that someone once spoke about seeing it and talking about how it topped off the awesomeness of their first Mac show and Spinal Tap even made fun of it), but the fact that it coincidently came out when Mick's book was written and was never heard about before does make a me a little suspicious.

Is there anyone else who is also highly suspicious of this New Zealand story after all these years?

:laugh::laugh: LOVE IT!!

"It's Not THAT Funny, Is It?" starring Bill Hader from SNL as LB, who never speaks. He just sits around and doodles on the guitar, humming and making funny facial expressions while Carol Ann dresses up like Stevie all the time, wandering from room to room, in flowing black chiffon proclaiming her birthday is May 26th and how she should be a model since she looks just like Stevie Nicks. Wanda Sykes could play Desi...



Oh yeah? I would bet the lawyers had been all over that book like white on rice forever....the really good stuff may have been left out...



Bwaaa! About that ocean front property in Arizona... ;)

Or how about Christine?http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k243/crs97/1dc9ba034f862330c23f6e267a1016bb.jpg

[nicole21290]

Is there anyone else who is also highly suspicious of this New Zealand story after all these years?

Besides Mick's books, these are the accounts:

Stevie: Up Close New Zealand, 2005 [x (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=23615)]

We all think back to our trip to New Zealand, you know, its an amazing story, it was the fight of all fights, and I think there was thirty thousand people there, that had come form buses all around New Zealand to see us. We were on the last song, of the set, and Lindsey threw his Les Paul guitar at me. I ducked so it didn’t hit me, but i was so mad that he had endangered my life. He then stormed off the stage - and we all stormed off the stage after him. The bodyguards and everyone had to physically separate all of us, and we didn’t do an encore that night, and that is the first and only time we have not done an encore. He was mad at me probably because he… it was okay for me to be the performer that i was when we were a couple, but when we broke up, he hated that fact that i was such a lead singer. And I’m sure when we left New Zealand, we were not even on the same plane.

Rolling Stone, 1997 [x (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/fleetwood-mac-back-on-the-chain-gang-19971030)]

That wasn’t the only psychodrama Australia would see; one evening, as Nicks performed her patented witchy dance on “Rhiannon,” twirling under her hooded poncho, Buckingham wrenched his jacket over his head and began dancing in a crude, crowlike imitation of her. “Lindsey was angry - just mad at me,” recalls Nicks. “That wasn’t a one-time thing. Lindsey and I had another huge thing that happened onstage in New Zealand. We had some kind of a fight, and he came over - might have kicked me, did something to me, and we stopped the show. He went off, and we all ran at breakneck speed back to the dressing room to see who could kill him first. Christine got to him first, and then I got to him second - the bodyguards were trying to get in the middle of all of us.”

"I think he’s the only person I ever, ever slapped," says Christine McVie. "I actually might have chucked a glass of wine, too. I just didn’t think it was the way to treat a paying audience. I mean, aside from making a mockery of Stevie like that. Really unprofessional, over the top. Yes, she cried. She cried a lot."

Without quite denying such incidents, Buckingham looks genuinely a bit puzzled to hear them played back. “What I do remember,” he says, “is a show where I purposely sang much of the set out of tune. We got offstage, and everyone was irate, obviously. They were talking about firing me and getting Clapton. Very well founded, because it was not a professional thing to do.”

Mojo, 2003 [x (http://www.fleetwoodmac-uk.com/articles/FMarticle1103.html)]

In March 1980, playing to 60,000 in Auckland, New Zealand while loaded with whisky (according to Fleetwood), he pulled his jacket over his head in grotesque imitation of Nicks’s drapes and started to ape her twirling moves. Then he ran across the stage and kicked her. Nicks carried on like a trouper.

In the dressing-room, head hung in shame, he was confronted by Christine McVie who slapped him and threw a glass of wine over him: “Don’t you ever do that to this band again! Ever! Is that clear?”

Buckingham can’t remember the events, but says, with bemusement: “Oh, I wouldn’t doubt that I mimicked Stevie on-stage. And kicked her? That could have happened too.”

…

And when Nicks rejoined Fleetwood Mac for the intriguingly Tusk-like Say You Will – he found her ready to forgive – and not forget, but laugh about “the time you threw that Les Paul at me” and such.

And The Daily Fail duly rehashed the story in 2013 [x (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/event/article-2529544/Fleetwood-Mac-You-make-fighting-fun-OK-Lindsey-Buckingham-admits-I-did-kick-Stevie-Nicks-Fleetwood-Mac-settling-old-scores.html)]

‘I was dancing on stage,’ begins Nicks, now 65, in the salon of her rented Parisian pied-à-terre.

‘It was the Tusk tour, 1980, Auckland, New Zealand. I was doing my thing with my shawl and Lindsey pulled his jacket up over his head and started mimicking me, behind my back.

'I thought, “Well, that’s not working for me.” But I didn’t do anything. This must have infuriated him, because he came over and kicked me.

'And I’d never had anyone be physical with me in my life. Then he picked up a black Les Paul guitar and he just frisbee’d it at me. He missed, I ducked – but he could have killed me.’
I’m not sure that happened,’ Buckingham, 64, states flatly at his gated LA estate.

‘Oh, it happened, all right,’ asserts Christine McVie, 70, drinking in a glorious view of the Thames. ‘I threw a glass of wine in his face.’

CAH’s version in 'Storms'

Four days later I received a phone call from Sara. Things were not good, she told me. As I listened in stunned disbelief she told me about what had just happened in Auckland, New Zealand. At a concert in front of thirty thousand people, Lindsey totally lost it on stage. The show was being simulcast over radio to all of New Zealand, which only added to the horror of what she was telling me. I sank down onto the floor as I listened to her story.

The band had only been playing for a little while, she said, when Lindsey suddenly pulled his jacket over his head - once again mimicking Stevie and her shawl-draped stage persona. He followed her around in grotesque imitation, intentionally playing the wrong parts on his guitar song after song. And then, before anyone could even try to stop him, he started kicking out at her with his heavy cowboy boots, doing his best to land blows on her unprotected legs - and when he did, the kick seemed to stun her.

The audience was also stunned, Sara said. Stevie frantically tried to stay away from his steel-toed cowboy boots and the whole show fell apart. And it all happened in front of thirty thousand fans in the audience and untold thousands listening on their radios.

Afterward, when the band headed back to the dressing room, Christine walked up to Lindsey and slapped him hard across the face as she screamed, “Don’t you dare do that to us again, do you hear me? How dare you do that to the band and Stevie?” She then threw a drink in his face.

A Journalist Writes, 2009 [x (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503462&objectid=10986356)]

Then there’s the worst concert ever. You probably wouldn’t guess who gets my top billing in that category in a million years. A clue: they’re coming back in December, and their tickets for a one-off concert go on sale Monday.

That’s right - supergroup Fleetwood Mac.

It was March 1980 in Wellington, and they were riding high on Rumours (1977) and the recently released Tusk. But in true rock fashion that wasn’t all they were riding high on and the state of their personal relationships - four of the band members had once made two happily married couples - was chaotic.That concert has been on my mind lately because of a couple of texts sent to Hawke’s Bay Today bemoaning the Mission’s Motown act, and the inability to get an act like the Mac. It brought a sly grin to the face as I remembered back to the debacle that night at Athletic Park.

I know Mick Fleetwood has written about it, but the best reference I could find on the internet was the following passage: “(Lindsey) Buckingham finally succumbed to the curse of Fleetwood Mac guitarists.

"At one show in New Zealand, as (Stevie) Nicks sang Rhiannon he pulled his jacket over his head and began performing a grotesque imitation of her. Christine McVie slapped him. ‘I might have chucked a glass of wine over him, too,’ she says. ‘I didn’t think that was the way to treat a paying audience’."

I suspect that incident came just before the band left the stage to temporarily sort out their differences so the show could go on. Legendary New Zealand bluesman Hammond Gamble and his band, Street Talk, was the support act that night and they had played superbly. As Fleetwood Mac deteriorated in front of our eyes, I remember a chant starting up: “Bring back Street Talk.” I joined in. I gave Hammond a call this week to check that my memory hadn’t faded. It hadn’t - his had. “Are you sure it wasn’t earlier than 1980?” he said down the phone from Auckland. But he remembered the important stuff.

"They were arguing among themselves," he said. "We were told to leave them alone and don’t get near them." Hammond said the gig that followed at Western Springs was a good concert but Wellington was most definitely “meltdown night”. After their team meeting, Fleetwood Mac did return to the stage and Nicks used all of her considerable charm in an attempt to win the crowd over and prove she was the rock goddess we had come to see. Somehow, though, it was forced. And 29 years later as the band, minus the delightful Christine McVie, prepare for their first New Zealand concert since that fateful March, it remains my worst live rock experience.

On that night, despite my liking for their music and lusting for Nicks, personal problems won out over the band’s reputation and ability.

[Sapphire Girl]

Besides Mick's books, these are the accounts:

Stevie: Up Close New Zealand, 2005 [x (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=23615)]

We all think back to our trip to New Zealand, you know, its an amazing story, it was the fight of all fights, and I think there was thirty thousand people there, that had come form buses all around New Zealand to see us. We were on the last song, of the set, and Lindsey threw his Les Paul guitar at me. I ducked so it didn’t hit me, but i was so mad that he had endangered my life. He then stormed off the stage - and we all stormed off the stage after him. The bodyguards and everyone had to physically separate all of us, and we didn’t do an encore that night, and that is the first and only time we have not done an encore. He was mad at me probably because he… it was okay for me to be the performer that i was when we were a couple, but when we broke up, he hated that fact that i was such a lead singer. And I’m sure when we left New Zealand, we were not even on the same plane.

Rolling Stone, 1997 [x (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/fleetwood-mac-back-on-the-chain-gang-19971030)]

That wasn’t the only psychodrama Australia would see; one evening, as Nicks performed her patented witchy dance on “Rhiannon,” twirling under her hooded poncho, Buckingham wrenched his jacket over his head and began dancing in a crude, crowlike imitation of her. “Lindsey was angry - just mad at me,” recalls Nicks. “That wasn’t a one-time thing. Lindsey and I had another huge thing that happened onstage in New Zealand. We had some kind of a fight, and he came over - might have kicked me, did something to me, and we stopped the show. He went off, and we all ran at breakneck speed back to the dressing room to see who could kill him first. Christine got to him first, and then I got to him second - the bodyguards were trying to get in the middle of all of us.”

"I think he’s the only person I ever, ever slapped," says Christine McVie. "I actually might have chucked a glass of wine, too. I just didn’t think it was the way to treat a paying audience. I mean, aside from making a mockery of Stevie like that. Really unprofessional, over the top. Yes, she cried. She cried a lot."

Without quite denying such incidents, Buckingham looks genuinely a bit puzzled to hear them played back. “What I do remember,” he says, “is a show where I purposely sang much of the set out of tune. We got offstage, and everyone was irate, obviously. They were talking about firing me and getting Clapton. Very well founded, because it was not a professional thing to do.”

Mojo, 2003 [x (http://www.fleetwoodmac-uk.com/articles/FMarticle1103.html)]

In March 1980, playing to 60,000 in Auckland, New Zealand while loaded with whisky (according to Fleetwood), he pulled his jacket over his head in grotesque imitation of Nicks’s drapes and started to ape her twirling moves. Then he ran across the stage and kicked her. Nicks carried on like a trouper.

In the dressing-room, head hung in shame, he was confronted by Christine McVie who slapped him and threw a glass of wine over him: “Don’t you ever do that to this band again! Ever! Is that clear?”

Buckingham can’t remember the events, but says, with bemusement: “Oh, I wouldn’t doubt that I mimicked Stevie on-stage. And kicked her? That could have happened too.”

…

And when Nicks rejoined Fleetwood Mac for the intriguingly Tusk-like Say You Will – he found her ready to forgive – and not forget, but laugh about “the time you threw that Les Paul at me” and such.

And The Daily Fail duly rehashed the story in 2013 [x (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/event/article-2529544/Fleetwood-Mac-You-make-fighting-fun-OK-Lindsey-Buckingham-admits-I-did-kick-Stevie-Nicks-Fleetwood-Mac-settling-old-scores.html)]

‘I was dancing on stage,’ begins Nicks, now 65, in the salon of her rented Parisian pied-à-terre.

‘It was the Tusk tour, 1980, Auckland, New Zealand. I was doing my thing with my shawl and Lindsey pulled his jacket up over his head and started mimicking me, behind my back.

'I thought, “Well, that’s not working for me.” But I didn’t do anything. This must have infuriated him, because he came over and kicked me.

'And I’d never had anyone be physical with me in my life. Then he picked up a black Les Paul guitar and he just frisbee’d it at me. He missed, I ducked – but he could have killed me.’
I’m not sure that happened,’ Buckingham, 64, states flatly at his gated LA estate.

‘Oh, it happened, all right,’ asserts Christine McVie, 70, drinking in a glorious view of the Thames. ‘I threw a glass of wine in his face.’

CAH’s version in 'Storms'

Four days later I received a phone call from Sara. Things were not good, she told me. As I listened in stunned disbelief she told me about what had just happened in Auckland, New Zealand. At a concert in front of thirty thousand people, Lindsey totally lost it on stage. The show was being simulcast over radio to all of New Zealand, which only added to the horror of what she was telling me. I sank down onto the floor as I listened to her story.

The band had only been playing for a little while, she said, when Lindsey suddenly pulled his jacket over his head - once again mimicking Stevie and her shawl-draped stage persona. He followed her around in grotesque imitation, intentionally playing the wrong parts on his guitar song after song. And then, before anyone could even try to stop him, he started kicking out at her with his heavy cowboy boots, doing his best to land blows on her unprotected legs - and when he did, the kick seemed to stun her.

The audience was also stunned, Sara said. Stevie frantically tried to stay away from his steel-toed cowboy boots and the whole show fell apart. And it all happened in front of thirty thousand fans in the audience and untold thousands listening on their radios.

Afterward, when the band headed back to the dressing room, Christine walked up to Lindsey and slapped him hard across the face as she screamed, “Don’t you dare do that to us again, do you hear me? How dare you do that to the band and Stevie?” She then threw a drink in his face.

A Journalist Writes, 2009 [x (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503462&objectid=10986356)]

Then there’s the worst concert ever. You probably wouldn’t guess who gets my top billing in that category in a million years. A clue: they’re coming back in December, and their tickets for a one-off concert go on sale Monday.

That’s right - supergroup Fleetwood Mac.

It was March 1980 in Wellington, and they were riding high on Rumours (1977) and the recently released Tusk. But in true rock fashion that wasn’t all they were riding high on and the state of their personal relationships - four of the band members had once made two happily married couples - was chaotic.That concert has been on my mind lately because of a couple of texts sent to Hawke’s Bay Today bemoaning the Mission’s Motown act, and the inability to get an act like the Mac. It brought a sly grin to the face as I remembered back to the debacle that night at Athletic Park.

I know Mick Fleetwood has written about it, but the best reference I could find on the internet was the following passage: “(Lindsey) Buckingham finally succumbed to the curse of Fleetwood Mac guitarists.

"At one show in New Zealand, as (Stevie) Nicks sang Rhiannon he pulled his jacket over his head and began performing a grotesque imitation of her. Christine McVie slapped him. ‘I might have chucked a glass of wine over him, too,’ she says. ‘I didn’t think that was the way to treat a paying audience’."

I suspect that incident came just before the band left the stage to temporarily sort out their differences so the show could go on. Legendary New Zealand bluesman Hammond Gamble and his band, Street Talk, was the support act that night and they had played superbly. As Fleetwood Mac deteriorated in front of our eyes, I remember a chant starting up: “Bring back Street Talk.” I joined in. I gave Hammond a call this week to check that my memory hadn’t faded. It hadn’t - his had. “Are you sure it wasn’t earlier than 1980?” he said down the phone from Auckland. But he remembered the important stuff.

"They were arguing among themselves," he said. "We were told to leave them alone and don’t get near them." Hammond said the gig that followed at Western Springs was a good concert but Wellington was most definitely “meltdown night”. After their team meeting, Fleetwood Mac did return to the stage and Nicks used all of her considerable charm in an attempt to win the crowd over and prove she was the rock goddess we had come to see. Somehow, though, it was forced. And 29 years later as the band, minus the delightful Christine McVie, prepare for their first New Zealand concert since that fateful March, it remains my worst live rock experience.

On that night, despite my liking for their music and lusting for Nicks, personal problems won out over the band’s reputation and ability.

I remember reading anything and everything about Fleetwood Mac in all sorts of publications as early as May 1977. Surely what was alleged to have transpired at that show would have been in Rolling Stone's Random Notes section in either March or April 1980.

Doesn't anyone have a review of this show that was in the local paper the next day?

[michelej1]

I remember reading anything and everything about Fleetwood Mac in all sorts of publications as early as May 1977. Surely what was alleged to have transpired at that show would have been in Rolling Stone's Random Notes section in either March or April 1980.

Doesn't anyone have a review of this show that was in the local paper the next day?


Yes, we have often remarked that it's strange that there was not a more contemporaneous report of the incident. I think they all remember Christine throwing a drink at Lindsey more than they remember what Lindsey did -- although he obviously did something. And it may not have been obvious to the local audience that anything was amiss on stage at all, so if there was a review in the paper after the show, it may not have said anything about it.

Michele

[kara]

I happily checked Storms out from my public library, pleased that I didn't have to spend my $$$....

I agree with everyone's comments, it was a trashy fun read...

until the parts about Lindsey's seizures.... omg that section of the book was sooo boring and dramatic and looooong.... I never finished the book because I could not get past those boring parts!

I know everyone has their own opinions, but I enjoyed reading the entire book. When she talks about Lindsay seizures it makes me think of me because I also have them. Given that, I do take somewhat of offense to that.

[HomerMcvie]

I have seizures when people can't spell LindsEy. That is all.:sorry:

[kara]

I have seizures when people can't spell LindsEy. That is all.:sorry:

I didn't mean to miss spell his name. I use voiceover screen reader's dictation sometimes, which I did yesterday. I am blind, and that is why I did it. Sorry.

[singertobe]

I haven't read the whole book yet. But so far from what Carol has described Stevie sounds like a real snob. I was quite shocked. It seemed so unlike her. Did anyone else get that vibe?

[teedeerocks]

I haven't read the whole book yet. But so far from what Carol has described Stevie sounds like a real snob. I was quite shocked. It seemed so unlike her. Did anyone else get that vibe?

Yes I did and still do.It has always seemed to me that she didn't want Lindsey herself but she didn't want anyone else to have him either and had to show her a$$.This has been my beef with her for the past couple of years now.Her recent interviews compared to earlier ones are so disheartening and such a turn off IMO.Usually high profile people exhibit that kind of behavior when they first get famous b/c they haven't adjusted to the attention yet but I'd say 40 years is plenty of time to adjust.It seems that ever since she has been referred to as "a living legend" and an "icon" she has been a real egomaniac.Either that or she has to build herself up herself b/c she needs constant appraisal due to low self esteem issues and insecurities(which we all have),and MUST be noticed at all times.Kind of like when someone appears to be the life of the party and laughing and smiling all the time but is really sad and cries all the time when no one is around(sad clown syndrome).And I think the loss of her Mom has alot to do with it too b/c she was Stevie's rock,reality checker, safety net,psychologist,and anchor.I apologize to everyone for the long post but I was just discussing this with a friend and your post really struck a chord with me:sorry:.All of the above is in my non-professional humble opinion of course.Moderator,if this is in the wrong forum let me know and I will post it elsewhere.Still love her though....:xoxo:

[kara]

I haven't read the whole book yet. But so far from what Carol has described Stevie sounds like a real snob. I was quite shocked. It seemed so unlike her. Did anyone else get that vibe?

Yes, I got that vibe. But she may have been at that time.

[aleuzzi]

Besides Mick's books, these are the accounts:

Stevie: Up Close New Zealand, 2005 [x (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=23615)]

We all think back to our trip to New Zealand, you know, its an amazing story, it was the fight of all fights, and I think there was thirty thousand people there, that had come form buses all around New Zealand to see us. We were on the last song, of the set, and Lindsey threw his Les Paul guitar at me. I ducked so it didn’t hit me, but i was so mad that he had endangered my life. He then stormed off the stage - and we all stormed off the stage after him. The bodyguards and everyone had to physically separate all of us, and we didn’t do an encore that night, and that is the first and only time we have not done an encore. He was mad at me probably because he… it was okay for me to be the performer that i was when we were a couple, but when we broke up, he hated that fact that i was such a lead singer. And I’m sure when we left New Zealand, we were not even on the same plane.

Rolling Stone, 1997 [x (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/fleetwood-mac-back-on-the-chain-gang-19971030)]

That wasn’t the only psychodrama Australia would see; one evening, as Nicks performed her patented witchy dance on “Rhiannon,” twirling under her hooded poncho, Buckingham wrenched his jacket over his head and began dancing in a crude, crowlike imitation of her. “Lindsey was angry - just mad at me,” recalls Nicks. “That wasn’t a one-time thing. Lindsey and I had another huge thing that happened onstage in New Zealand. We had some kind of a fight, and he came over - might have kicked me, did something to me, and we stopped the show. He went off, and we all ran at breakneck speed back to the dressing room to see who could kill him first. Christine got to him first, and then I got to him second - the bodyguards were trying to get in the middle of all of us.”

"I think he’s the only person I ever, ever slapped," says Christine McVie. "I actually might have chucked a glass of wine, too. I just didn’t think it was the way to treat a paying audience. I mean, aside from making a mockery of Stevie like that. Really unprofessional, over the top. Yes, she cried. She cried a lot."

Without quite denying such incidents, Buckingham looks genuinely a bit puzzled to hear them played back. “What I do remember,” he says, “is a show where I purposely sang much of the set out of tune. We got offstage, and everyone was irate, obviously. They were talking about firing me and getting Clapton. Very well founded, because it was not a professional thing to do.”

Mojo, 2003 [x (http://www.fleetwoodmac-uk.com/articles/FMarticle1103.html)]

In March 1980, playing to 60,000 in Auckland, New Zealand while loaded with whisky (according to Fleetwood), he pulled his jacket over his head in grotesque imitation of Nicks’s drapes and started to ape her twirling moves. Then he ran across the stage and kicked her. Nicks carried on like a trouper.

In the dressing-room, head hung in shame, he was confronted by Christine McVie who slapped him and threw a glass of wine over him: “Don’t you ever do that to this band again! Ever! Is that clear?”

Buckingham can’t remember the events, but says, with bemusement: “Oh, I wouldn’t doubt that I mimicked Stevie on-stage. And kicked her? That could have happened too.”

…

And when Nicks rejoined Fleetwood Mac for the intriguingly Tusk-like Say You Will – he found her ready to forgive – and not forget, but laugh about “the time you threw that Les Paul at me” and such.

And The Daily Fail duly rehashed the story in 2013 [x (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/event/article-2529544/Fleetwood-Mac-You-make-fighting-fun-OK-Lindsey-Buckingham-admits-I-did-kick-Stevie-Nicks-Fleetwood-Mac-settling-old-scores.html)]

‘I was dancing on stage,’ begins Nicks, now 65, in the salon of her rented Parisian pied-à-terre.

‘It was the Tusk tour, 1980, Auckland, New Zealand. I was doing my thing with my shawl and Lindsey pulled his jacket up over his head and started mimicking me, behind my back.

'I thought, “Well, that’s not working for me.” But I didn’t do anything. This must have infuriated him, because he came over and kicked me.

'And I’d never had anyone be physical with me in my life. Then he picked up a black Les Paul guitar and he just frisbee’d it at me. He missed, I ducked – but he could have killed me.’
I’m not sure that happened,’ Buckingham, 64, states flatly at his gated LA estate.

‘Oh, it happened, all right,’ asserts Christine McVie, 70, drinking in a glorious view of the Thames. ‘I threw a glass of wine in his face.’

CAH’s version in 'Storms'

Four days later I received a phone call from Sara. Things were not good, she told me. As I listened in stunned disbelief she told me about what had just happened in Auckland, New Zealand. At a concert in front of thirty thousand people, Lindsey totally lost it on stage. The show was being simulcast over radio to all of New Zealand, which only added to the horror of what she was telling me. I sank down onto the floor as I listened to her story.

The band had only been playing for a little while, she said, when Lindsey suddenly pulled his jacket over his head - once again mimicking Stevie and her shawl-draped stage persona. He followed her around in grotesque imitation, intentionally playing the wrong parts on his guitar song after song. And then, before anyone could even try to stop him, he started kicking out at her with his heavy cowboy boots, doing his best to land blows on her unprotected legs - and when he did, the kick seemed to stun her.

The audience was also stunned, Sara said. Stevie frantically tried to stay away from his steel-toed cowboy boots and the whole show fell apart. And it all happened in front of thirty thousand fans in the audience and untold thousands listening on their radios.

Afterward, when the band headed back to the dressing room, Christine walked up to Lindsey and slapped him hard across the face as she screamed, “Don’t you dare do that to us again, do you hear me? How dare you do that to the band and Stevie?” She then threw a drink in his face.

A Journalist Writes, 2009 [x (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503462&objectid=10986356)]

Then there’s the worst concert ever. You probably wouldn’t guess who gets my top billing in that category in a million years. A clue: they’re coming back in December, and their tickets for a one-off concert go on sale Monday.

That’s right - supergroup Fleetwood Mac.

It was March 1980 in Wellington, and they were riding high on Rumours (1977) and the recently released Tusk. But in true rock fashion that wasn’t all they were riding high on and the state of their personal relationships - four of the band members had once made two happily married couples - was chaotic.That concert has been on my mind lately because of a couple of texts sent to Hawke’s Bay Today bemoaning the Mission’s Motown act, and the inability to get an act like the Mac. It brought a sly grin to the face as I remembered back to the debacle that night at Athletic Park.

I know Mick Fleetwood has written about it, but the best reference I could find on the internet was the following passage: “(Lindsey) Buckingham finally succumbed to the curse of Fleetwood Mac guitarists.

"At one show in New Zealand, as (Stevie) Nicks sang Rhiannon he pulled his jacket over his head and began performing a grotesque imitation of her. Christine McVie slapped him. ‘I might have chucked a glass of wine over him, too,’ she says. ‘I didn’t think that was the way to treat a paying audience’."

I suspect that incident came just before the band left the stage to temporarily sort out their differences so the show could go on. Legendary New Zealand bluesman Hammond Gamble and his band, Street Talk, was the support act that night and they had played superbly. As Fleetwood Mac deteriorated in front of our eyes, I remember a chant starting up: “Bring back Street Talk.” I joined in. I gave Hammond a call this week to check that my memory hadn’t faded. It hadn’t - his had. “Are you sure it wasn’t earlier than 1980?” he said down the phone from Auckland. But he remembered the important stuff.

"They were arguing among themselves," he said. "We were told to leave them alone and don’t get near them." Hammond said the gig that followed at Western Springs was a good concert but Wellington was most definitely “meltdown night”. After their team meeting, Fleetwood Mac did return to the stage and Nicks used all of her considerable charm in an attempt to win the crowd over and prove she was the rock goddess we had come to see. Somehow, though, it was forced. And 29 years later as the band, minus the delightful Christine McVie, prepare for their first New Zealand concert since that fateful March, it remains my worst live rock experience.

On that night, despite my liking for their music and lusting for Nicks, personal problems won out over the band’s reputation and ability.

These accounts differ significantly. In the pattern similar to folklore, fuzzy recollection gives way to embellishments and new memories emerge from the embellishments.

We can be certain of only a few things. They were in Wellington. They were playing "Rhiannon." Lindsey put his jacket over I his head and began doing a crass parody of Stevie's witch dance. He was playing the wrong notes and elsewhere In the set he had already been playing and singing out of tune. All of that is enough to warrant a slap from Christine. (It appears that probably happened.) The rest is uncertain.

In his book, Mick was careful not to say outright that Lindsey kicked her. He may have. Whatever the case, the crowd appeared to think this was all part of the act and, by his reports, loved it. I am highly suspect of the fan's recollection. I'm also highly suspect of Stevie's saying he kicked her and threw his guitar at her.

[FuzzyPlum]

These accounts differ significantly. In a pattern similar to folklore, fuzzy recollection gives way to embellishments and new memories emerge from the embellishments.

We can be certain of only a few things. They were in Wellington. They were playing "Rhiannon." Lindsey put his jacket over his head and began doing a crass parody of Stevie's witch dance. He was playing the wrong notes and elsewhere in the set he had already been playing and singing out of tune. All of that is enough to warrant a slap from Christine. (It appears that probably happened.) The rest is uncertain.

In his book, Mick was careful not to say outright that Lindsey kicked her. He may have. Whatever the case, the crowd appeared to think this was all part of the act and, by his reports, loved it. I am highly suspect of the fan's recollection. I'm also highly suspect of Stevie's saying he kicked her and threw his guitar at her.

The outright kicking could have been embellished- though I can envisage him being a goon and maybe tapping at her feet or legs or something. It doesn't sound as if the crowd did think it was part of the act and love it (as per the account written by the journalist Grant Harding). Sounds like they were rather pi**ed off with it all.

[michelej1]

In his book, Mick was careful not to say outright that Lindsey kicked her. He may have. Whatever the case, the crowd appeared to think this was all part of the act and, by his reports, loved it. I am highly suspect of the fan's recollection. I'm also highly suspect of Stevie's saying he kicked her and threw his guitar at her.

The fact that Stevie's memory has improved over time is telling. First she said that Lindsey "did something" to her but couldn't remember exactly what.

Then, Mick said he kicked her for playing around during his GYOW solo. Then, after that, Stevie saying he threw his guitar at her and she ducked came along late and is a fairly recent version of the story.

I would say that seeing as how Stevie seemingly asked Lindsey (it's unclear because the magazine article doesn't say which one of them is speaking) if he remembered throwing a guitar at her in the MOJO interview during the SYW tour that he probably has thrown a guitar at her, but not necessarily at the New Zealand concert.

Lindsey said he played a whole concert out of tune and that the band was understandably mad at him, but I don't know if that happened that same night either.

Michele

[FuzzyPlum]

The fact that Stevie's memory has improved over time is telling. First she said that Lindsey "did something" to her but couldn't remember exactly what.

Then, Mick said he kicked her for playing around during his GYOW solo. Then, after that, Stevie saying he threw his guitar at her and she ducked came along late and is a fairly recent version of the story.

I would say that seeing as how Stevie seemingly asked Lindsey (it's unclear because the magazine article doesn't say which one of them is speaking) if he remembered throwing a guitar at her in the MOJO interview during the SYW tour that he probably has thrown a guitar at her, but not necessarily at the New Zealand concert.

Lindsey said he played a whole concert out of tune and that the band was understandably mad at him, but I don't know if that happened that same night either.

Michele

Yes, it sounds like there could have been elements from other events that got added into this particular story. Even then, I suspect there could be a degree of exaggeration. I can see Lindsey getting mad at Stevie and throwing his guitar down in anger- possibly near her. Whether he ever outright threw his guitar at her (frisbee-style!) is a different matter.