Working my way through FM

[chriskisn]

For part of last week and the next two weeks I'm working in a store that is about 45 minutes drive from home, plus I do drive around a bit for work. So, I've decided to start at the dog and dustbin album and work through some sort of chronological order of the FM back catalogue. It is actually harder than you think because I don't know where to fit such albums as Vaudeville Years, the three Live in Boston, etc, so for now they are going to get missed out completely.

So far I've got through the following:

PG's Fleetwood Mac
Mr Wonderful
English Rose
Pious Bird of Good Omen
Then Play On
The Original Fleetwood Mac

Tomorrow morning I'll start on Kiln House. Once I have got through the Stevie/Lindsey Live in Boston (which I think is the most recent album if memory serves me correct?) then I'll maybe go back and pick up some of the compilations.

So far I've come to the following conclusions:


Jigsaw Puzzle Blues and Fleetwood Mac (the instrumental) are better than Albatross.
Listening to Mr Wonderful, English Rose and Pious Bird of Good Omen in the same day is just too much
The Original Fleetwood Mac album is way too underrated
Some of the best stuff didn't make it onto these albums

[Madelow]

Hello Chris: Sounds like a very ambitious project. One that will bring you great pleasure for a long time to come! Be sure to let us know what you think of each cd. I'm sure you'll get plenty of responses. Have fun! Madelow.

[chiliD]

Where's Blues Jam At Chess???

To me, English Rose trumps both Mr Wonderful and Pious Bird Of Good Omen....OR, the latter two should be listened to in lieu of the former (Or, preferably, the former should be listened to in lieu of the latter two). Yeah, listening to all three gets tedious & redundant.

Vaudeville Years (& the subsequent ShowBiz Blues) set(s) should be played directly BEFORE Then Play On

The three Live At The Boston Tea Partys should be played directly AFTER Then Play On

The Original Fleetwood Mac should be played directly AFTER Dog & Dustbin.

I'll ignore the blasphemous statement regarding "Albatross" (but I'll just let it seethe internally and it'll come out in some unrelated way in a later post) :cool:

[nailatixela]

Have fun! This is essentially how I've listened to the Mac since I've become a hardcore fan. I don't know how everyone else does it, but I have one large playlist on iTunes called "Fleetwood Mac". With over 1000 songs, I have all the Fleetwood Mac and solo member albums in chronological order. Well, all those that interest me. I have a selection of pre 1971 songs - then every Mac album from Future Games to LIB. All Christine, Stevie, Lindsey solo albums and some Bob Welch plus Buckingham Nicks are also thrown into the playlist in chronological order. I have a live show after most of the albums. Whatever live show they did to back up the album, of course. Not all live shows include every song that was preformed during other shows, so I throw any rare songs that weren't always preformed at each show into the mix where they could best fit. I also include soundtrack songs on here.

I love listening to the Mac this way - I couldn't do it any other way! This entire playlist takes me at least a month to finish 1 listen completely. After that I listen to my 100 some demo songs, (also in chronological order) and sometimes I'll listen to my "Favorites" playlist, with my favorite Mac and solo songs. After that I'll listen to other artists for about a week, and then I'm back to the first song on my Mac playlist - Love That Burns. (the playlist ends with Silver Springs from Unleashed, fyi)

Sorry that was so long! I'm just happy to find someone else listening like this, and I'm curious to see how others listen. I thought I'd share my process!

[chriskisn]

Where's Blues Jam At Chess???

To me, English Rose trumps both Mr Wonderful and Pious Bird Of Good Omen....OR, the latter two should be listened to in lieu of the former (Or, preferably, the former should be listened to in lieu of the latter two). Yeah, listening to all three gets tedious & redundant.

Vaudeville Years (& the subsequent ShowBiz Blues) set(s) should be played directly BEFORE Then Play On

The three Live At The Boston Tea Partys should be played directly AFTER Then Play On

The Original Fleetwood Mac should be played directly AFTER Dog & Dustbin.

I'll ignore the blasphemous statement regarding "Albatross" (but I'll just let it seethe internally and it'll come out in some unrelated way in a later post) :cool:

The problem with listening to all of these in a row - plus Blues Jam at Chess and Shrine '69 is that I will:

a) never get time to listen to anything other than the PG era FM
b) hate the PG era FM by the time I'm finished
c) have heard some songs so many times I will scream

So many releases for the PG era, which is weird as it only covered such a small timeframe.

:shrug:

[doodyhead]

The problem with listening to all of these in a row - plus Blues Jam at Chess and Shrine '69 is that I will:

a) never get time to listen to anything other than the PG era FM
b) hate the PG era FM by the time I'm finished
c) have heard some songs so many times I will scream

So many releases for the PG era, which is weird as it only covered such a small timeframe.

:shrug:

There were not that many releases by FM during that period.
There were so many different fleeetwood macs during that period that these "posthumous" releases are necessary
If you listen to Vaudevill Years or Showbiz blues you might begin to understand how a blues band could evolve to kild house in such a short period of time
If you listen to the Nicks Buckingham FM you go from evolution to creationism and stay there

doodyhead

[sjpdg]

For part of last week and the next two weeks I'm working in a store that is about 45 minutes drive from home, plus I do drive around a bit for work. So, I've decided to start at the dog and dustbin album and work through some sort of chronological order of the FM back catalogue. It is actually harder than you think because I don't know where to fit such albums as Vaudeville Years, the three Live in Boston, etc, so for now they are going to get missed out completely.

So far I've got through the following:

PG's Fleetwood Mac
Mr Wonderful
English Rose
Pious Bird of Good Omen
Then Play On
The Original Fleetwood Mac

Tomorrow morning I'll start on Kiln House. Once I have got through the Stevie/Lindsey Live in Boston (which I think is the most recent album if memory serves me correct?) then I'll maybe go back and pick up some of the compilations.

So far I've come to the following conclusions:


Jigsaw Puzzle Blues and Fleetwood Mac (the instrumental) are better than Albatross.
Listening to Mr Wonderful, English Rose and Pious Bird of Good Omen in the same day is just too much
The Original Fleetwood Mac album is way too underrated
Some of the best stuff didn't make it onto these albums


What's this not including "Blue Again" in the playlist at the end? Granted it is not an "official" Fleetwood Mac disc, but it could be for all intents and purposes.

I go through and listen to all of my favourite artists works in order of release on a somewhat regular basis. I find it a fun and interesting "walk down memory lane" type of exercise where I try to remember where I was the first time I heard that disc or this/that particular song. It also reminds me of some material I may not always immediately recall that artist having recorded. Honestly, I thought I was sort of a freak for doing, but now that I know I'm not alone, I feel much better!!

Right now I'm listening to my entire iTunes collection in alphabetical order on my iPod. I'm somewhere in the "O"s at the moment.

[slipkid]

If you listen to the Nicks Buckingham FM you go from evolution to creationism and stay there
doodyhead

I nominate this for "QUOTE of the year!".


Seriously, why did it take so long for The Boston Tea Party shows to be officially released on LP (on a third party label) in 1985? If Peter Green remained in the band beyond 1970, Warner Brothers would've released those Tea Party tapes in late '70! WB was so scared of FM without Green they buried him before he lost his way a couple years later. As it turned out, had WB released the Boston shows on 2 LP's, Peter Green would've returned to sit in for the absent Jeremy Spencer with more inspiration. Despite Green's reluctance to play his music, the popular live FM album from Boston '70 would've forced Green to play what he knows.

One suspects that the post '75 band didn't want any undiscovered material from the pre '75 band released during their "run" to ruin their illusion.

[chriskisn]

What's this not including "Blue Again" in the playlist at the end? Granted it is not an "official" Fleetwood Mac disc, but it could be for all intents and purposes.


Well the same argument could be almost said for Tramp for the Mick Fleetwood Zoo albums...

Anyway today I decided to back-track a little and take in Showbiz Blues, managed to listen to both discs, so might do Vaudeville Years tomorrow. Then I might do Shrine 69 and maybe Live in Boston but I think I'll give Live at the BBC and Blues Jam at Chess a miss. Sorry ChiliD!

However, I have to say that a track on an album should not be longer than 4 or 5 minutes. Really I do like Peter's playing but I don't need to hear 15 minutes of Green Manalishi.

[zoork_1]

Have fun! This is essentially how I've listened to the Mac since ...[...]...[...]... Sorry that was so long! I'm just happy to find someone else listening like this, and I'm curious to see how others listen. I thought I'd share my process!

Not to long at all, that process do appeal to me... :-)

/z

[aleuzzi]

I love Albatross, but the instrumental called Fleetwood Mac is also great--and I prefer it! I too like Jigsaw more than Albatross, but I realize these are just matters of taste and that all three are excellent.

Kiln House is to my way of thinking FM at its best, which is surprising, given there's no significant Christine participation and a lot more rockabilly than I normally enjoy. But who the heck cares! It's an amazing, honest, unpretentious record. A band that could record three consecutive studio records (Then Play On, Kiln House, Future Games) of such varying character and yet consistent quality is quite rare. Those three records represent the breadth of a band like FM.

[chriskisn]

After a day of Shrine '69 and Vaudeville Years, I'm well and truly over Peter Green's FM and am moving onto Kiln House tomorrow. Should I get through everything by the end of next week then I might go back to BBC and Boston albums. If I get bored and desperate I might do Blues Jam at Chess (never my favourite album at the best of times).

What I have discovered, perhaps more about myself than the band is that I can only take PG's FM in relatively small doses (if five days of it is considered a small dose).

I have particularly enjoyed Jeremy's work on Vaudeville, particularly his impersonations - Alexis Korner, John Mayall, etc. Danny's work as always is excellent, I can't ever really fault his stuff.

I was playing Jeremy doing Blue Suede Shoes last night when my wife came in and was trying to have a serious conversation with me. Hard to have one of those while in the background Jeremy is suggesting you should suck and lick a certain part of his anatomy. :laugh: Melissa was not impressed!

I did wonder though when he was singing that song, whether that was the one he used to do with Harold the dildo sticking out of his fly.

Two quotes from Vaudeville which made me laugh today while driving:

Just before we start can I just say, for those of you who live in Timbuktu...[a few seconds of silence follow]

and

It's got to be good its the only bluesy thing on the whole f**king LP! [in reference to Showbiz Blues]

One day I'm going to go to Timbuktu and play the song to find out what the message was :lol:

[TrueFaith77]

Have fun! This is essentially how I've listened to the Mac since I've become a hardcore fan. I don't know how everyone else does it, but I have one large playlist on iTunes called "Fleetwood Mac". With over 1000 songs, I have all the Fleetwood Mac and solo member albums in chronological order. Well, all those that interest me. I have a selection of pre 1971 songs - then every Mac album from Future Games to LIB. All Christine, Stevie, Lindsey solo albums and some Bob Welch plus Buckingham Nicks are also thrown into the playlist in chronological order. I have a live show after most of the albums. Whatever live show they did to back up the album, of course. Not all live shows include every song that was preformed during other shows, so I throw any rare songs that weren't always preformed at each show into the mix where they could best fit. I also include soundtrack songs on here.

I love listening to the Mac this way - I couldn't do it any other way! This entire playlist takes me at least a month to finish 1 listen completely. After that I listen to my 100 some demo songs, (also in chronological order) and sometimes I'll listen to my "Favorites" playlist, with my favorite Mac and solo songs. After that I'll listen to other artists for about a week, and then I'm back to the first song on my Mac playlist - Love That Burns. (the playlist ends with Silver Springs from Unleashed, fyi)

Sorry that was so long! I'm just happy to find someone else listening like this, and I'm curious to see how others listen. I thought I'd share my process!

If I knew anything about the internets (and a bit more about Fleetwood Mac), I would embark upon a full-scale timeline of Mac-related releases.

someday

[slipkid]

After a day of Shrine '69 and Vaudeville Years, I'm well and truly over Peter Green's FM and am moving onto Kiln House tomorrow. Should I get through everything by the end of next week then I might go back to BBC and Boston albums. If I get bored and desperate I might do Blues Jam at Chess (never my favorite album at the best of times).

What I have discovered, perhaps more about myself than the band is that I can only take PG's FM in relatively small doses (if five days of it is considered a small dose).

I have particularly enjoyed Jeremy's work on Vaudeville, particularly his impersonations - Alexis Korner, John Mayall, etc. Danny's work as always is excellent, I can't ever really fault his stuff.

I was playing Jeremy doing Blue Suede Shoes last night when my wife came in and was trying to have a serious conversation with me. Hard to have one of those while in the background Jeremy is suggesting you should suck and lick a certain part of his anatomy. :laugh: Melissa was not impressed!

I did wonder though when he was singing that song, whether that was the one he used to do with Harold the dildo sticking out of his fly.

Two quotes from Vaudeville which made me laugh today while driving:

Just before we start can I just say, for those of you who live in Timbuktu...[a few seconds of silence follow]

and

It's got to be good its the only bluesy thing on the whole f**king LP! [in reference to Showbiz Blues]

One day I'm going to go to Timbuktu and play the song to find out what the message was :lol:


This is why Fleetwood Mac is unique. As much as I've tried to compare this band to Chicago, the differences in style over the years are much more stark in comparison to the band that had the horn section with the brilliant guitarist who decided to play Russian roulette, and lose (he thought there were no bullets in the gun).

I've read you wrong chriskisn, I thought you were a Peter Green fan. I never tire of the Peter Green era, it's like listening to something new each time I hear Peter Green play the guitar, even if I've heard it many times over. I've come across many guitarists, most of them bore me to death. That includes Eric Clapton, Duane Allman, and Jimmy Page. Yet Peter Green never bores me. The way he played a solo is so special, it's original, melodic, and captivating at the same time. He never played the same solo twice, and it never bores me compared to the guitarists named above.

Personally I can take Led Zeppelin in relatively small doses. That means I was once a teenage fan of Led Zeppelin, but their overexposure to this day bores me because they were never as good as the media, and sycophantic fans under the age of fifty seem to think they were.

If you really want to hear Fleetwood Mac in the studio with Peter Green, "The Original Fleetwood Mac" (the 1999 Blue Horizon box set version), is the best example. It will explain my hatred towards Led Zeppelin (Track 1), and includes the original blues jam that spawned the name of the band.

Fleetwood Mac from 8/'68 (Danny Kirwan)-5/'70 had all the parts to be that big great band that Led Zeppelin became. Peter Green's timing was off, and he left Fleetwood Mac just as they were to make a breakthrough tour in the US during the summer of 1970. Green quit because he saw the grueling tour schedule ahead, and couldn't take it.

[chriskisn]

I've read you wrong chriskisn, I thought you were a Peter Green fan.


I am...don't get me wrong, I just can't listen to his Fleetwood Mac stuff for five days...:lol:

I actually prefer Peter's solo stuff and some of his more "gentle" songs such as Man of the World.

I do like Peter's guitar playing but it does all start to sound the same - only the lyrics vary. It is kind of like my opinion of Jeremy's Elmore James inspired songs.

I think I do have a renewed appreciation for Danny Kirwan though...

[chriskisn]

Well today I have a bit more respect for Bare Trees, so maybe I've discovered something from what is now a six-day Mac-fest.

I have worked my way through Kiln House, Future Games and Bare Trees. Kiln House I have always enjoyed and have played semi-regularly in the past. Future Games and Bare Trees have often been consigned to the back of the drawer never to see the light of day.

I haven't quite finished Bare Trees yet, the dreaded Mrs Scarrott is still to come - oh how I hate that track! However the tracks I have listened to I have actually reasonably enjoyed. Danny's Chant however annoys me - it is almost like he wrote some music and never bothered putting words to it, as if it should never have seen release.

I've still got Dust to listen to as well as Mrs Scarrott, but that certainly isn't anything to look forward to. I have never understood why people like Dust - to me it is one of Danny's worst songs, but I might yet be proven wrong tomorrow morning.

I'll do the Madison Blues set tomorrow, forgot to take it with me today or I'd have listened to it before FG and BT. Oh well :shrug:

Oh and one final though for today, I know a lot of you love Christine (though she is one of my least favourite of the 16) but I really think the version of Sentimental Lady on French Kiss is much better than the one on BT. Today for the first time in about 15 years I have worked out why - there is far too much Christine on backing vocals on the BT version. :sorry:

I am looking forward to Saturday when I get to Mystery to Me, Penguin and Heroes, my three favourite albums of the whole damn lot!

[dino]

Well today I have a bit more respect for Bare Trees, so maybe I've discovered something from what is now a six-day Mac-fest.

I have worked my way through Kiln House, Future Games and Bare Trees. Kiln House I have always enjoyed and have played semi-regularly in the past. Future Games and Bare Trees have often been consigned to the back of the drawer never to see the light of day.

I haven't quite finished Bare Trees yet, the dreaded Mrs Scarrott is still to come - oh how I hate that track! However the tracks I have listened to I have actually reasonably enjoyed. Danny's Chant however annoys me - it is almost like he wrote some music and never bothered putting words to it, as if it should never have seen release.

I've still got Dust to listen to as well as Mrs Scarrott, but that certainly isn't anything to look forward to. I have never understood why people like Dust - to me it is one of Danny's worst songs, but I might yet be proven wrong tomorrow morning.

I'll do the Madison Blues set tomorrow, forgot to take it with me today or I'd have listened to it before FG and BT. Oh well :shrug:

Oh and one final though for today, I know a lot of you love Christine (though she is one of my least favourite of the 16) but I really think the version of Sentimental Lady on French Kiss is much better than the one on BT. Today for the first time in about 15 years I have worked out why - there is far too much Christine on backing vocals on the BT version. :sorry:

I am looking forward to Saturday when I get to Mystery to Me, Penguin and Heroes, my three favourite albums of the whole damn lot!

Love "Dust"...one of Danny's top 5 songs, very beautiful.

So which members do you like? Not really Peter Green, not so much Danny Kirwan, not Christine McVie...is Stevie Nicks the answer? Just curious. ;)

[chriskisn]

Love "Dust"...one of Danny's top 5 songs, very beautiful.

So which members do you like? Not really Peter Green, not so much Danny Kirwan, not Christine McVie...is Stevie Nicks the answer? Just curious. ;)

Dave Walker, Rick Vito, Billy Burnette, Bob Welch oh and yes Stevie (hence the "sn" on the end of my username).

It really does sound like I don't like Peter Green and Danny doesn't it. :sorry: Really I do...I love almost all of Danny's songs, just not Dust or Danny's Chant (not even a song if you ask me). I even like his solo stuff...

Actually when I've gone through all this I'm going to maybe listen to all the Peter Green solo albums. I like most of those except End of the Game, Kolors and Katmandu - A Case For the Blues, and the only one out of those I can't tolerate is End of the Game.

[slipkid]

I am...don't get me wrong, I just can't listen to his Fleetwood Mac stuff for five days...:lol:

I actually prefer Peter's solo stuff and some of his more "gentle" songs such as Man of the World.

I do like Peter's guitar playing but it does all start to sound the same - only the lyrics vary. It is kind of like my opinion of Jeremy's Elmore James inspired songs.

I think I do have a renewed appreciation for Danny Kirwan though...

With no disrespect to Jeremy Spencer's Elmore James-esque blues songs, I think Peter's guitar playing changes while he was in FM. Obviously adding Danny Kirwan gave Peter Green a greater range to play with a backup guitarist playing rhythm. I don't think the songs heard live in the early months of 1970 can compare to the pre-Kirwan FM era. By this time there are more blues songs that are slower in pace, yet much more intense with the brilliant use of dynamics. For instance, the Roundhouse Chalkfarm show 4/70's version of "Black Magic Woman" is a much different animal compared to the Boston shows just two and a half months prior. In April/'70 Peter is playing as if Danny isn't there, Peter is playing as if he's possessed, and it's brilliant. The Boston shows were more laid back, and allowed Danny to contribute to the BMW jam.

It's the live music of Peter Green's time in FM that need to heard compared to the studio albums. They reveal so much more to what made this band respected by fellow musicians. They had their popularity in England, and most of Europe, Peter Green didn't stay in the band long enough to achieve success in the U.S..



As for Danny Kirwan, while I love the song "Hypnotized", I'm not compelled to own "Mystery to Me" compared to "Bare Trees". When Kirwan was fired, the original British version of Fleetwood Mac died.

[dino]

Dave Walker, Rick Vito, Billy Burnette, Bob Welch oh and yes Stevie (hence the "sn" on the end of my username).

It really does sound like I don't like Peter Green and Danny doesn't it. :sorry: Really I do...I love almost all of Danny's songs, just not Dust or Danny's Chant (not even a song if you ask me). I even like his solo stuff...

Actually when I've gone through all this I'm going to maybe listen to all the Peter Green solo albums. I like most of those except End of the Game, Kolors and Katmandu - A Case For the Blues, and the only one out of those I can't tolerate is End of the Game.

Okay, I should have seen the "sn" :). That's an interesting collection of favorite members. Well, Danny's Chant would have been great with a nice set of lyrics. Kolors and Katmandu are indeed the least interesting Green albums, but he didn't have much input in either and was very ill.

[chriskisn]

Okay, I should have seen the "sn" :). That's an interesting collection of favorite members. Well, Danny's Chant would have been great with a nice set of lyrics. Kolors and Katmandu are indeed the least interesting Green albums, but he didn't have much input in either and was very ill.

Actually I agree, the music for Danny's Chant is great just not the chanting. It's kind of like Teen Beat from years later...

Oh and on the PG solo stuff, I'm not sure he had much input into the Splinter Group stuff either but it is greatly enjoyable.

Perhaps my problem is that I don't have the musical education or the wide musical taste that a lot of you do on here (I bought my first album at 19 - such a late starter).

I don't have the ability to analyse and dissect an artist's playing I just listen to music and enjoy it.

[slipkid]

Actually I agree, the music for Danny's Chant is great just not the chanting. It's kind of like Teen Beat from years later...

Oh and on the PG solo stuff, I'm not sure he had much input into the Splinter Group stuff either but it is greatly enjoyable.

Perhaps my problem is that I don't have the musical education or the wide musical taste that a lot of you do on here (I bought my first album at 19 - such a late starter).

I don't have the ability to analyse and dissect an artist's playing I just listen to music and enjoy it.

"Child of Mine", from "Bare Trees", is a great song. Yet growing up as a pre-teen in the 70's, that song reminds me of the (US TV) "Brady Bunch" song called "Keep On". Just like the "Friends" theme was ripped from "Pleasant Valley Sunday" by the Monkees. As good as "Child of Mine" is, I can't erase that "hook" that I first heard through a silly American sitcom. This isn't Danny Kirwan's fault, it's those people behind the scenes that write songs for television.




The older you get, the more you "get it". In 1991 at a local Price Club (before it became Costco), I bought a four CD set of John Coltrane live in Japan, 1966. I was not aware at the time that by 1966, John Coltrane was playing free jazz. I heard a forty minute version of "My Favorite Things", I thought it was noise. It didn't sound anything like the Atlantic 1961 album. I've since sold that 4CD set, and have regretted that sale ever since.


This is why you don't understand "The End of the Game". The song, "Bottoms Up" is Miles Davis' "Bitches Brew" level material.

[chriskisn]

On Friday I listened to the Madison Blues two-disc set, which with a couple of exceptions didn't particularly excite me, but then that's just me.

Having already done Kiln House, Bare Trees and Future Games, on Saturday morning I did Penguin, putting The Derelict on repeat four times. Hard to grow tired of that one!

I then attended an 87th birthday party and on the way home subjected my wife (who had got a lift there from her sister) to Mystery to Me. She did turn it off once - only once which is good for her and Fleetwood Mac. :lol:

Those two albums, with the fantastic Heroes (which I will listen to this morning) are still, in my opinion, the best that Fleetwood Mac has to offer. Christine before she went sugar-coated pop, Bob Welch in full flight, and of course for just two tracks Dave Walker.

Funnily enough though I was listening to (I'm A) Roadrunner, and although it isn't his strongest effort nor the strongest effort by the Mac, it surely isn't the terrible song that most people think it is. Even the supporters of The Derelict don't like it. :shrug:

[TrueFaith77]

I think I do have a renewed appreciation for Danny Kirwan though...

yes. sigh. it's a wonderful feeling: that renewed appreciation

[holidayroad]

yes. sigh. it's a wonderful feeling: that renewed appreciation

I'm having the same kind of feeling about Danny Kirwan. I've been listening to 'Hello There Big Boy' a lot lately and it just reminds me of how varied Danny can be.

[aleuzzi]

Danny's Mac work is amazing--all of it (sans "When You Say"). Love "Dust", love "Child of Mine", love all the Future Games stuff. But it's the Kiln House material that slays me.

[chriskisn]

Yesterday I finished the pre-Rumours era, doing Heroes and the white album. Regardless of how the ledge classifies things, I do think that the white album really belongs in pre-rumours. Despite the personnel changes it is quite a natural follow-on from Heroes, especially Christine's work.

Oh and while this topic does belong to another forum, I haven't listened to the white album in a long time (nor Rumours for that matter). However I have to say I had forgotton how beautiful Stevie's voice was on that first album!

Oh well, I'm now battling through the Rumours era - just did Rumours and Tusk today. I shall perhaps get back to the Live in Boston set if time permits at the end of the week or into next week.

[zoork_1]

Danny's Mac work is amazing--all of it (sans "When You Say" ...[...]

I've said it before, I like "When You Say" :-)

Maybe I'm listening to the potential song...

/z

[ButterCookie]

Hate to hijack a thread, but I'm starting from the beggining too... ish.

I've had Christine's tracks off the pre-rumours for a while but I'm now starting from the beginning (in a funny order) on vinyl. So it could take me a while to gather everything together :laugh:

So far I've got a best of Peter Green's FM CD which was my taster just in case it wasn't my kinda thing. Mystery To Me - this is currently my second favourite album. Second only to the '75 White Album, a copy of Kiln House which I'm eagerly awaiting the delivery of and the reddy Best Of from '71. All I can say is how much I love them :D

[chiliD]

However, I have to say that a track on an album should not be longer than 4 or 5 minutes. Really I do like Peter's playing but I don't need to hear 15 minutes of Green Manalishi.

Then stay the f**k away from a live Allman Bros album...


...and by the way...YES, YOU DO NEED TO HEAR 15 MINUTES OF "GREEN MANALISHI"....over & f**king over until you start to appreciate the intricacies of each note.

And, that goes for the 25+ minute versions of "Rattlesnake Shake" on the Live At The Boston Tea Party albums, too.

[slipkid]

Then stay the f**k away from a live Allman Bros album...


...and by the way...YES, YOU DO NEED TO HEAR 15 MINUTES OF "GREEN MANALISHI"....over & f**king over until you start to appreciate the intricacies of each note.

And, that goes for the 25+ minute versions of "Rattlesnake Shake" on the Live At The Boston Tea Party albums, too.

:nod:

Preach brother, preach!


While I have no idea why the 1999 CD version of "Live in Boston Vol. 3" is no longer in print, every Fleetwood Mac fan, and I mean post '74 (including the post LB years), needs to hear "Jumping At Shadows" (the Vol. 3 version). In a very short four and a half minutes, Peter Green displays why the original band were... outstanding.

If you pass that test, then you need to hear "If You Let Me Love You", on the same CD.

[dansven]

Then stay the f**k away from a live Allman Bros album...


...and by the way...YES, YOU DO NEED TO HEAR 15 MINUTES OF "GREEN MANALISHI"....over & f**king over until you start to appreciate the intricacies of each note.

And, that goes for the 25+ minute versions of "Rattlesnake Shake" on the Live At The Boston Tea Party albums, too.

WOW...!!:confused:
...and without smileys too.


......................:D:D:D:thumbsup:
hahaha

[dino]

Hey, any PG Fleetwood Mac fans willing to do a critique of the Rumours years? :p
We'll post it in the Rumours section, of course...

[chriskisn]

...and by the way...YES, YOU DO NEED TO HEAR 15 MINUTES OF "GREEN MANALISHI"....over & f**king over until you start to appreciate the intricacies of each note.

And, that goes for the 25+ minute versions of "Rattlesnake Shake" on the Live At The Boston Tea Party albums, too.

Maybe I should just go out and buy the rope now - it would be quicker ;)

[slipkid]

Maybe I should just go out and buy the rope now - it would be quicker ;)

chiliD is going to have words with me on this, but I stand by what I type. You have no idea how good those long Peter Green FM jams are. Compared to the Grateful Dead in 1970, (one of their peak periods), FM blew them away on the same bill in New Orleans. In fact that was where FM recorded "I've Got a Good Mind to Give Up Living" , that's now featured on Youtube. Compared to the Allman Brothers (at times, not always), FM didn't noodle riff jam (I.E. stuck in a rut, this was Cream's problem at times). Fleetwood Mac in 1969/1970 were the perfect jam band. Not that I have a lot of love for Aerosmith, yet Joe Perry always talks about how Fleetwood Mac (with Peter Green) took blues rock to another level. Notice he didn't name Jimmy Page.

The problem is current jam bands know only of three; The Allmans, the Grateful Dead, and Phish. I can't stand the current jam band scene except for the Allman influenced bands (Widespread Panic, Gov't Mule).

[chriskisn]

Unfortunately jamming just doesn't do it for me and never has. Sure I appreciate that Peter Green was a fantastic guitarist and the occasional extended track is ok in small doses. I have listened to tracks like On We Jam, Encore Jam, etc probably once since I bought the 3 Boston albums.

It is like going to see a painting by a famous artist - nice to look at, you can admire it, but then you don't need to keep going back to see it regularly - you've already seen it.

Sorry :sorry:

[chiliD]

Unfortunately jamming just doesn't do it for me and never has. Sure I appreciate that Peter Green was a fantastic guitarist and the occasional extended track is ok in small doses. I have listened to tracks like On We Jam, Encore Jam, etc probably once since I bought the 3 Boston albums.

It is like going to see a painting by a famous artist - nice to look at, you can admire it, but then you don't need to keep going back to see it regularly - you've already seen it.

Sorry :sorry:


Piss poor attitude. :mad:

[doodyhead]

I can tell you first hand that I have witnessed jams from the Dead the Alman brothers Quicksilver Messenger Service, Canned Heat, Santana, Jimi Hendrix, The Jefferson Airplane, CSNY but not since 73

by 72 I had my fill of endless meandering but when a band was on it was something

doodyhead

[chiliD]

The only bands that CONSISTENTLY were/are good at the "extended jams":

Allman Bros Band
Little Feat

They rarely "meander", always have exciting peaks & valleys of dynamics and most always have a "point" to their jams....even to this day, despite personnel changes.

Groups like Jefferson Airplane, QMS & CSNY just kind of got caught up in that whole "extended jam" scene that was happening in the late 60's/early '70s...they never really were good at it, except on rare occasions. Even the so called "masters" of the extended jam, The Grateful Dead were so incredibly inconsistent...either they were on or not....IMO, mostly "not"...but the bad nights made the good nights that much more special.

[TrueFaith77]

The only bands that CONSISTENTLY were/are good at the "extended jams":

Allman Bros Band
Little Feat

They rarely "meander", always have exciting peaks & valleys of dynamics and most always have a "point" to their jams....even to this day, despite personnel changes.

Groups like Jefferson Airplane, QMS & CSNY just kind of got caught up in that whole "extended jam" scene that was happening in the late 60's/early '70s...they never really were good at it, except on rare occasions. Even the so called "masters" of the extended jam, The Grateful Dead were so incredibly inconsistent...either they were on or not....IMO, mostly "not"...but the bad nights made the good nights that much more special.

What about FM?

[chiliD]

Other than the extended "Green Manalishi" & "Rattlesnake Shake"s, they really didn't go off on "jams"....sure there are those two free-form things on the end of the Tea Party discs, but those were when "guests" were sitting in (Joe Walsh, Eric Clapton (supposedly))....but, there reluctance to REALLY jam was one of the reasons, it seems (from reading Celmins' bio on Green, and a few more recent interviews), why Peter decided to leave the band.

[aleuzzi]

You have no idea how good those long Peter Green FM jams are. Compared to the Grateful Dead in 1970, (one of their peak periods), FM blew them away on the same bill in New Orleans.

Agreed! Those long jams are amazing. Always found Green Manalishi a bit boring, though. Much prefer the Madge jams.

[slipkid]

Agreed! Those long jams are amazing. Always found Green Manalishi a bit boring, though. Much prefer the Madge jams.

If there's any evidence in "noodling" with FM it was the Fender Bass VI live jams at the end of "Green Manalishi". I tend to ignore, or forget that because Peter Green isn't playing guitar. Yet, it's similar to Berry Oakley's bass solo in "Mountain Jam". The Allmans loved to pull out that slide solo/Dickey Betts trill lick a lot to carry a couple measures ("Whipping Post", " In Memory of Elizabeth Reed").


With "Rattlesnake Shake" it's pure jam.

It starts with the original song, then comes the extended Peter Green solo (always inventive, never derivative), later comes the "Madge Jam" sequence at a faster tempo. After that is the dual guitar face off with harmonized guitars (done before the Allmans were "famous"). From that it goes into the "Underway" section. This is where Peter Green shows he was just as accomplished as Jeff Beck, or Jimi Hendrix in terms of controlling tone, and volume. Again, Peter Green was a master of dynamics, and using volume to achieve surprise. Finally, the jam drifts into a bit of "space", they find their bearings, and the final intense jam push arises. To end this great piece of work, Peter Green uses one of the greatest rock riffs I will ever hear in my lifetime (it's heard faintly at the end of the studio version of RS).

[chiliD]

...After that is the dual guitar face off with harmonized guitars (done before the Allmans were "famous").

Yes, true, however, those type of jams on "Rattlesnake Shake" (or in the sessions for Then Play On) didn't occur until AFTER Peter had met & jammed with Duane Allman (and the Grateful Dead----during those late 69/early 70 triple bill shows of Fleetwood Mac/Allman Bros Band/Grateful Dead)

[zoork_1]

Yes, true, however, those type of jams on "Rattlesnake Shake" (or in the sessions for Then Play On) didn't occur until AFTER Peter had met & jammed with Duane Allman (and the Grateful Dead----during those late 69/early 70 triple bill shows of Fleetwood Mac/Allman Bros Band/Grateful Dead)

Mmm, yes something pulled the trigger, and I think e.g. Santana contributed to that...

/z

[chiliD]

Mmm, yes something pulled the trigger, and I think e.g. Santana contributed to that...

/z

Sort of the "influenced" (Carlos) turning around and being the influence on the "influencer" (Peter)...since Carlos has said on numerous occasions that Peter's influence on him was quite great in the early days. (similar with Buddy Guy influencing Jimi Hendrix, then Buddy "borrowing back" from where Jimi took it.)

[slipkid]

Yes, true, however, those type of jams on "Rattlesnake Shake" (or in the sessions for Then Play On) didn't occur until AFTER Peter had met & jammed with Duane Allman (and the Grateful Dead----during those late 69/early 70 triple bill shows of Fleetwood Mac/Allman Bros Band/Grateful Dead)

Did FM play with the Allmans prior to the 2/11/70 show in NYC? I know FM played with the Dead in New Orleans late January. As far as I know, FM didn't have contact with The Allman Brothers until after the Boston Tea Party shows. There's also "Loving Kind" in Boston from Danny Kirwan. That would take a lot to learn on the fly after hearing the Allman Brothers for the first time.

Peter Green wrote "Albatross" with harmonized guitars at least six months before The Allman Brothers were a band. He knew what he was doing with Danny Kirwan.
The shame of it all is that he'll never get the credit because Green left as FM was on the verge of being one of those great bands.

As for the Santana argument, Carlos Santana owes Peter Green everything for "The Supernatural". While Carlos Santana laments of how he is so influenced by Jimi Hendrix, and John Coltrane, the truth is somewhere in the middle. It's Peter Green. Carlos owes his success to Peter Green. Everytime I hear Peter Green play his solo "Homework" from "Live in Chicago", I think of Carlos Santana. I should be thinking of Peter Green, but some Mexican kid who emigrated to San Francisco stole his style, and tone (yet not his feel, and dynamics, thank god). Later when he becomes famous, he drops the names of Jimi Hendrix (dead rock hero), or John Coltrane (dead jazz hero), as influences. During the eighties, and nineties, it's not cool to mention screwed up mental patients as influences. Yet Carlos stepped up to the plate to finally admit his credits for the Peter Green BBC documentary hoping it would only be viewed in Europe. A true grifter to the end.

[dino]

Everytime I hear Peter Green play his solo "Homework" from "Live in Chicago", I think of Carlos Santana. I should be thinking of Peter Green, but some Mexican kid who emigrated to San Francisco stole his style, and tone (yet not his feel, and dynamics, thank god). Later when he becomes famous, he drops the names of Jimi Hendrix (dead rock hero), or John Coltrane (dead jazz hero), as influences. During the eighties, and nineties, it's not cool to mention screwed up mental patients as influences. Yet Carlos stepped up to the plate to finally admit his credits for the Peter Green BBC documentary hoping it would only be viewed in Europe. A true grifter to the end.

What is "Live in Chicago"? A bootleg?
Think you're being a bit harsh on Santana; he has admitted the influence many many times. I don't see much similarity in their playing styles either, do you have an illustative example from Carlos' catalog?

[chriskisn]

What is "Live in Chicago"? A bootleg?
Think you're being a bit harsh on Santana; he has admitted the influence many many times. I don't see much similarity in their playing styles either, do you have an illustative example from Carlos' catalog?

I've always figured that it's the same thing as Blues Jam At Chess - the track listing being identical. Given that I only only the Blues Jam At Chess album I can't be positive....

[chriskisn]

Oh and for a point of interest - if it is of any interest by now - I finally finished listening to the Stevie/Lindsey Live in Boston album today - pretty much three weeks after I started at the Dog and Dustbin album.

I might go back and do the three PG Boston albums now, plus perhaps Live at the BBC, which I can't remember ever actually having listened to - I supposed I did when I got it?

[chiliD]

Did FM play with the Allmans prior to the 2/11/70 show in NYC? I know FM played with the Dead in New Orleans late January.

Oh, yeah. The Allman Bros were on the Warehouse bill in NOLA w/FMac & the GD.

[slipkid]

What is "Live in Chicago"? A bootleg?
Think you're being a bit harsh on Santana; he has admitted the influence many many times. I don't see much similarity in their playing styles either, do you have an illustative example from Carlos' catalog?

I was referring to "Blues Jam at Chess". There were older versions of the same material called "Live In Chicago". I have the first three Santana albums including live at the Fillmore West in 1968. There is a trigger in that "Homework" (Green) solo that Carlos picked up. I can't put my finger on it now, I must listen to old Santana. :)

[slipkid]

Oh, yeah. The Allman Bros were on the Warehouse bill in NOLA w/FMac & the GD.

There is no record the Allmans were on the same bill. In fact it was a band called The Flock. The Christopher Hjort book claims the same.

From this website I'm about to link, the Allmans didn't play the Warehouse until March of 1970. BTW, you can thank me later. :nod:


http://www.blackstrat.net/Allman-Audubon/Allman-Audubon.htm

So I think it's entirely possible that the Allman Brothers did not influence Fleetwood Mac's harmonized guitar attack. FM would've heard that new British band from 1969, Wishbone Ash before the Allman Brothers. Yet in either case, "Albatross" was recorded in October of 1968, before either band existed. Peter Green was influenced by "Sleepwalk", from Santo, and Johnny. That's where the harmonized guitar idea for Peter Green originated.