Why doesn't Stevie ever lower the key to the songs she can't sing anymore??

[OutsideTheRain]

For instance, Silver Springs....often didn't do it on certain night of the FM tour, and when she did it, struggled with it because it is too high for her. So why not lower the song to the key of A, instead of C?? She has done this with certain songs in the past and it has worked out nicely: ie Landslide, Beautiful Child, SDMHA, etc. Most people would never identify a difference. :wavey:

[carrie721]

well, to say she doesn't ever do it is inaccurate. as you said, she's done it with a number of songs to varying degrees of success.

some songs just don't sound right when they're transposed. BC in a lower key sounds awful to me. SS would sound even worse. different key signatures have their own inherent moods and emotional characteristics. the ol' switcheroo just doesn't always work.

[Sanne2]

I think the biggest reason why she doesn't sing certain songs (anymore) isn't because she can't reach the notes, but simply because she doesn't like the songs.

[HejiraNYC]

Are you sure BC is in a different key? I am too lazy to go and compare the LIB and Tusk versions... but my musical memory leads me to believe that they are in the same key (or a half step different, tops).

Keys are a very odd thing with FM; it seems like none of them thought of recording songs in keys that could be reliably reproduced night after night on stage. E.g., even on the White Album tour, Stevie was screeching out the high note in "Rhiannon." And we all know that most of Lindsey's songs have been transposed lower over the years. And the keys for "Destiny Rules" and "Say You Will" were transposed UP for the stage while "Running Through the Garden" was transposed DOWN. :shrug:

I have to admit that I much prefer them keeping the original key intact, even if it means changing the melody/arrangements around. Maybe it's just me, but I think shifting down the key is such a wimp-out move. It's safe. It's predictable. Concerts are supposed to be like going to the circus- risks have to be taken. And while we overtly hope that the trapeze artist doesn't fall, our subconscious secretly wishes something unfortunate happens- it's that element of uncertainty that makes it exciting. Similarly, at a live concert, we all expect that every note will be perfect all the while hoping that somebody flubs or hits a bum note. Again, it's that element of risk and uncertainty. Otherwise, why not sit at home and watch the DVD if you just want rote perfection?

[carrie721]

Are you sure BC is in a different key? I am too lazy to go and compare the LIB and Tusk versions... but my musical memory leads me to believe that they are in the same key (or a half step different, tops).

i think you're right, it is only a half step. but to my ears, there's a big difference mood-wise between C major and B major.

[APerfectLie]

My question is why is Silver Springs so hard to sing?? To me it seems like one of the easiest Mac songs to sing. Granted I am no professional singer, but songs like BATB seem a lot harder.

[carrie721]

My question is why is Silver Springs so hard to sing?? To me it seems like one of the easiest Mac songs to sing. Granted I am no professional singer, but songs like BATB seem a lot harder.

it's difficult for stevie because her voice is shot and the melody of SS frequently jumps a major 6th and requires her to reach a c above middle C, which she has only been able to do once in the last, like, 20 years, and only in the studio.

[SapphireSister]

Being that I know very little technically about music (i.e. octaves, notes, etc.) I tend to not focus on the notes Stevie can't hit anymore and am just grateful she's bringing any of the old ones back for us to hear live like Storms!

[joe]

The only song of Stevie's I recall off the top of my head that she's lowered the key in concert is Stop Draggin...She did this in 2001. Otherwise, aside from the RTTG that I've heard only a handful of times from that single show they did it opening night of the tour, I think she's actually done the opposite through the years: Landslide until 1990, Angel on the Tusk tour, and SYW on the 2004 leg. All these off the top of my head. Maybe there's a few others.

I'm kind of up in the air about the issue. I realize a lot of older rockers are doing this and have been for some time. Just saw something with Genesis and I can pick up right away what songs have been lowered (Turn it on Again, for one). Obviously I am no middle-aged to senior citizen rocker and never will be. So, I have to trust their judgment that it's the way it has to be done now. I'm sure it's pretty uncomfortable to have to strain to sing in the keys that were natural and effortless in years past. Face it, our voices lower as we age. It's just the nature of the beast. By lowering the key you have a lot more room to move. Think about it, if Stevie lowered Rhiannon, she might be able to sing those upper parts, just in the lower key. Make sense?

I agree to an extent with HejiraNYC about changing the melody and arrangements around to fit the current voice rather than lowering the whole song. Stevie's been doing that for years with Rhiannon and Dreams. Remember how she used to sing the upper harmonies on Dreams until the early 80's? However, listen to how monotonous some of those songs sound now. To me, she's become very monotonous due to her very limited range. I remember an interview with Christine from the early 80s where she talked about Stevie's songs and her singing voice. I'll paraphrase here but it was to the effect that her vocals change keys dramatically and she can be all over the place. If I was more educated musically I could say "she goes immediately from an F minor to an A major" or something like that." It wasn't an insult to Stevie. So, now it's the complete opposite. Listen to "Sara" now. Can she even lift it up a few notches when she sings "but now it's gone, it doesn't matter what for etc etc." She used to go up a bit when she sang it and it gave it a more dramatic punch. Now it's so monotonous and boring to me. There's no life left to it. Sorry, just my opinion. Not trying to pick on her. I guess I'm a bit bitter that things aren't what they used to be.

For said reason above, carrie721, I agree with you too: "different key signatures have their own inherent moods and emotional characteristics." I guess for me when I hear those that are lowered it sounds slower and older and doesn't have that same punch. I think there's a mental thing that goes off in my head "uh oh, they can't sing it anymore and have to go to a lower key...they're gettin old!" Maybe that's the turn off? IDK. Anyway, I guess it probably doesn't phase those fans that haven't been listening for decades like some of us. Even when I heard "The Chain" on the Dance I could tell right away that it was different. I'm used to it now but really still prefer the older original key.

So, as contradicting as I sound lol, I guess it really depends on the song. Some may work lowered and others may benefit from altering the arrangements somehow.

[WarmSir3]

These days Stevie sings Landslide in the same key as the studio version... live she would sing it a minor third higher

They were also lowering the keys as far as back as 1987, for Seven Wonders... take care

[David]

i think you're right, it is only a half step. but to my ears, there's a big difference mood-wise between C major and B major.Beethoven agrees with you. To Beethoven, keys had specific inner significance; each key was associated with certain moods. No piece of music can be transposed without losing some aspect of its original mood & acquiring another aspect (sometimes inadvertent).

Beethoven's key of heroic struggle is C minor. Stevie's keys of whining narcissism are B flat major, C major, D major, F major, & G major. Stevie is Beethovenian in her identification of key with mood & metaphorical significance.

[carrie721]

Beethoven agrees with you. To Beethoven, keys had specific inner significance; each key was associated with certain moods. No piece of music can be transposed without losing some aspect of its original mood & acquiring another aspect (sometimes inadvertent).

Beethoven's key of heroic struggle is C minor. Stevie's keys of whining narcissism are B flat major, C major, D major, F major, & G major. Stevie is Beethovenian in her identification of key with mood & metaphorical significance.

like stevie knew what she was doing. correlation is not causation! :lol:

also, what the hell did stevie write in B flat?

[David]

like stevie knew what she was doing. correlation is not causation! :lol:

also, what the hell did stevie write in B flat?Bella Donna.

Don't you have Facebook account like me? How come you no friend me? First you insult me when you say "NO COME IN" at Horsemanity, then you no friend me on Facebook. You stinky poop.

[carrie721]

Bella Donna.

Don't you have Facebook account like me? How come you no friend me? First you insult me when you say "NO COME IN" at Horsemanity, then you no friend me on Facebook. You stinky poop.

i'm a cruel, cruel mistress, david.

there's nothing exciting on my facebook.

[drzubritsky]

it's difficult for stevie because her voice is shot and the melody of SS frequently jumps a major 6th and requires her to reach a c above middle C, which she has only been able to do once in the last, like, 20 years, and only in the studio.

IIRC, without pulling out the sheet music, the highest note in SS is an A above middle C. That song is actually not very rangy.

As for a high C, she actually did achieve that in the finale of "Rhiannon" on The Dance (and the associated tour as well as the following year's Enchanted tour). She only hits it a handful of times ("DREAMS unwind and still it's a state of mind..."; "TAKE me like the wind, child..."), but it sounds fine, not strained at all. Strangely, she doesn't even attempt it during the verses ("all your LIFE"), and on the tour she sounded strained on "WOULD you even try", even though that was an A, two steps lower than the C she hit during the finale.

She did even better on the House of Blues version of "Rhiannon" from 1994, where she was knocking out those high C notes during the coda like nothing since the 70s, although not at the same level of throat-shredding intensity.

The point is that she still had the ability to hit those high notes until the late 90s, but she rarely tried for them. I sometimes wonder if her voice lessons actually had a detrimental impact on her willingness to be more adventurous, vocally.

[Richard B]

I sometimes wonder if her voice lessons actually had a detrimental impact on her willingness to be more adventurous, vocally.

This has been in my thoughts for years now. I sometimes truly believe she is afraid and/or cautious. In interviews, she seems so determined to put on the best show possible, and sometimes I feel she directs that reserved, trained energy to how she sings compared to her earlier years. Her willingness to just "let go" seems hampered. :shrug:



*ON EDIT:
But then again maybe bad things happen vocally when she "let's go". I don't know. It has been many, many years since she's been doing this. Bless.

[drzubritsky]

I don't mind minor changes to the melody to retain the original key when there are a few notes that become unreachable with age. But when you have to rework the melody so much that it becomes boring, then it's time to consider lowering the key so that you can retain the range of the original melody.

For me, "Rhiannon" and "Dreams" really lost a lot of their melodic appeal when she began avoiding the high C on the verses (e.g. "all your LIFE", "it's only RIGHT"). Those melody changes date back at least to the very early 80s (as evidenced by the HBO concert). Perhaps bringing those songs down a half or whole step would have allowed her to sing the original melody, and still provide that fiery coda on "Rhiannon".

I thought "The Chain" worked fine in the lower key. For awhile, I got so accustomed to The Dance version that the original sounded kind of "chipmunky" when I revisited it. A lot of it depends on intensity of performance, dynamics, etc., which can largely compensate for a slight drop in key.

[carrie721]

IIRC, without pulling out the sheet music, the highest note in SS is an A above middle C. That song is actually not very rangy.

she hits the C above middle C at the end of the studio version. the range of the song is an octave + a minor third, which is pretty substantial in her current state.

ETA: you're right about rhiannon from the dance, i had forgotten about that. but i disagree that it doesn't sound strained - she is barely croaking it out to these ears.

[David]

I thought "The Chain" worked fine in the lower key.
Oh gosh, I never could stand that one in D minor. But I suppose it doesn't really matter.

[David]

i'm a cruel, cruel mistress, david.

there's nothing exciting on my facebook.Well, I just wanted to scribble on your wall.

[carrie721]

then grab a crayon and come on over.

[WarmSir3]

IIRC, without pulling out the sheet music, the highest note in SS is an A above middle C. That song is actually not very rangy.

A few tenor high C(C5)s towards the end... especially on the Rumours outtake version. She did these live for a long time, from Wild Heart to Tango she recorded dozens of C#5s and D5s, even the odd Eb5 and one E5. She has three recorded Eb5s in the studio however, I'm So Afraid, Wild Heart, and the Rumours outtake "duet" version of Oh Daddy

[skuncles]

For as much as I love music, I know nothing about keys. But I recall Lindsey saying that for The Dance tour they had to drop the keys for all of the songs, in particular Stevie's songs.

[drzubritsky]

For as much as I love music, I know nothing about keys. But I recall Lindsey saying that for The Dance tour they had to drop the keys for all of the songs, in particular Stevie's songs.

I didn't notice any additional key changes on the tour, other than lowering the key for "The Chain" as they did on the CD (and "Go Insane" which only appeared on the video). Stevie's songs were all in their original key, I believe.