Lindsey & John

[Fleetwoodmark]

How do you reckon they get on...In the past and more recently. I gather that they are not exactly the best of friends. In interviews Lindsey if complementing him seems to put a subtle dig at the same time. Such that he was described as Mick's "Halo point" and in Behind the Music where he points out Christine was writing songs about him but he couldn't write anything back.

What do you folks think ?

[michelej1]

Actually, the comment about John not being able to write anything back to Christine sounded like male support to me, not a dig. I think he was saying that John's side of the story didn't get heard because he wasn't a songwriter. He wasn't impugning John for not being a song writer. To me, he was saying that John didn't get fair representation in discussing the divorce.

I would say more recently Lindsey has had more laudatory things to say about John and they weren't tempered with any type of criticism whatsoever. But I don't think they see each other outside of Fleetwood Mac. I know after SYW Lindsey said that he heard from Christine once a year and that he and John had ever been that close. It gave me the impression that as little as he communicated with Chris, it was more than with John.

I did love Christine's Dance comment when they were working, about seeing John and Lindsey walk away from her with their arms around each other. She never thought she'd witness that. Then, she told the interviewer not to get any ideas about John and Lindsey being lovers:laugh:.

She commented that the bandmates weren't blood brothers, but then she said actually they were closer than real brothers and sisters, in a way.

Now, in Cory's diary, she wrote something about Lindsey keeping the band waiting, so after that John kept Lindsey waiting, to make a point. So, I think they do passive aggressive stuff to each other.

Michele

[Lindsfan]

Actually, the comment about John not being able to write anything back to Christine sounded like male support to me, not a dig. I think he was saying that John's side of the story didn't get heard because he wasn't a songwriter. He wasn't impugning John for not being a song writer. To me, he was saying that John didn't get fair representation in discussing the divorce.

I would say more recently Lindsey has had more laudatory things to say about John and they weren't tempered with any type of criticism whatsoever. But I don't think they see each other outside of Fleetwood Mac. I know after SYW Lindsey said that he heard from Christine once a year and that he and John had ever been that close. It gave me the impression that as little as he communicated with Chris, it was more than with John.

I did love Christine's Dance comment when they were working, about seeing John and Lindsey walk away from her with their arms around each other. She never thought she'd witness that. Then, she told the interviewer not to get any ideas about John and Lindsey being lovers:laugh:.

She commented that the bandmates weren't blood brothers, but then she said actually they were closer than real brothers and sisters, in a way.

Now, in Cory's diary, she wrote something about Lindsey keeping the band waiting, so after that John kept Lindsey waiting, to make a point. So, I think they do passive aggressive stuff to each other.

Michele

What is that from??? I'd LOVE to see it. Is it on video somewhere???

[lbfan]

I think a lot of the friction, as Lindsey has previously commented, that Lindsey would typically play most, if not all of the instruments on his songs. Lindsey played bass in Fritz (someone else owned the "fuzz"). I think it reached a boiling point during the making of Tusk when Lindsey came into the studio with bass and drum tracks already completed and John especially took offense and reportedly commented he did not want people to think he played so badly.

John and Lindsey's relationship appears to be all business oriented. They never seemed to talk about social activities. During the Say You Will tour, Lindsey stayed in the hotel and wrote songs for Under the Skin and Gift of Screws. Lindsey is an anal studio rat whereas John appears to be laid back and would rather be sailing. They tour together for the cash.

That's my opinion/two cents worth.

[michelej1]

What is that from??? I'd LOVE to see it. Is it on video somewhere???

I don't think it's on video. But here's the written interview.

http://fleetwoodmac.net/penguin/archive/orlando.htm

[Lindsfan]

I don't think it's on video. But here's the written interview.

http://fleetwoodmac.net/penguin/archive/orlando.htm

THANKS! It's nice to hear from Christine :)

[Lindsfan]

Lindsey has said that he used to think John's bass line was too busy, but, once he learned to just accept it, that he also came to appreciate John's playing/skill. Didn't Ken Callait say in his interview that the two were like "oil and water"? On the other hand, I love the part on the Destiny Rules DVD where John says ( of Mick and Lindsey ) that "they're nice guys". They seemed to get along fine at that time, and still today. Just not much in common - except for love of music. So I think they like each other, but, just have nothing much to talk about, and no particular reason to hang out together.

[AliceLover]

Well, on the Unleashed Tour Lindsey would go over to John on Rhiannon and sort of jam for a bit before the chorus kicked back in.

Also, another thing that comes to my mind, on the SYW documentary, Lindsey gets emotional talking about the band getting back together and i remember a quote "and seeing John".

[HomerMcvie]

I love it in the Tusk doc, where John takes a drink of Lindsey's beer. There couldn't be hate there, could there? Would you drink after someone you didn't like?

[Nico]

How do you reckon they get on...In the past and more recently. I gather that they are not exactly the best of friends. In interviews Lindsey if complementing him seems to put a subtle dig at the same time. Such that he was described as Mick's "Halo point" and in Behind the Music where he points out Christine was writing songs about him but he couldn't write anything back.

What do you folks think ?

See, I didn't really detect that malice in what LB said in his "Behind the Music." I think he was just being straight-up. He was probably saying something John would have said to the band himself, "I couldn't write any songs back..." Now if it was meant as a dig, that is not nice. But I personally didn't feel it was a dig. John and LB appear to have a healthy working camaraderie. I don't think they're best friends, but then again I don't think LB is best friends with the other members either. In fact, the only person I could ever see LB ever being "besties" with (and that's a stretch) is someone like Brett Tuggle. Just because they appear to get along fabulously well and even have that teasing type of thing going- where you know they're comfortable with each other enough to say certain things out loud and in front of each other.

But I digress... imo John and Lindsey do get along, play music together brilliantly, and when the day is done go on to their separate lives. I think there is a definite mutual respect and they are probably comfortable enough to give each other an opposing opinion or two. Just not too many more than that. ;)

[hippilil86]

I've always wondered more about Mick and Lindsey's relationship, moreso than John and Lindsey. Do you think that Lindsey feels that he partially owes his success to Mick? I've always wondered why they've stayed in touch, even though Mick seems fame/money hungry, and Lindsey seems "dedicated to artistic integrity"

[Fleetwoodmark]

Fair does,

I feel John being typically Britishly understated I think he feels Lindsey is a tad over the top a lot of the time....maybe they have learned over the years to respect each other !

[ButterCookie]

Fair does,

I feel John being typically Britishly understated I think he feels Lindsey is a tad over the top a lot of the time....maybe they have learned over the years to respect each other !

This would make a LOT of sense. People in America seem so much more friendly than people in the UK. I've heard that in stores over there people talk to eachother and make contact like people actually should (Yes, shock horror, British Public) Over here, we talk very little to eachother and I know for a fact in shops the money is echanged and people do leave without having said hello, thankyou or goodbye. For John being british, I imagine meeting Lindsey before he knew him properly would be really... overwhelming? If that's the right way to put it?

[Fleetwoodmark]

This would make a LOT of sense. People in America seem so much more friendly than people in the UK. I've heard that in stores over there people talk to eachother and make contact like people actually should (Yes, shock horror, British Public) Over here, we talk very little to eachother and I know for a fact in shops the money is echanged and people do leave without having said hello, thankyou or goodbye. For John being british, I imagine meeting Lindsey before he knew him properly would be really... overwhelming? If that's the right way to put it?

Haha, I meant British in the sense that John wouldn't go about blowing his own trumpet like Lindsey & Stevie are quite good at ;)

Where on earth do you stay by the way ?

[ButterCookie]

Haha, I meant British in the sense that John wouldn't go about blowing his own trumpet like Lindsey & Stevie are quite good at ;)

Where on earth do you stay by the way ?

I've not been over (yet :D ) But my uncle frequently visits all over and always comes back saying how much more helpful and polite people are in general. :shrug:

[bucklind17]

I've always gotten the impression that John and Lindsey have a typical "co-worker" relationship, or as typical as can be in their profession. I work in a small department and I get along with all of my co-workers, but the majority are not people I would seek to be friends with had we not been placed together by our jobs, nor people that I particularly find it necessary to see beyond the 40 hours of the week I already spend with them. I think John and Lindsey have a similar type of relationship where they can work together relatively peacefully, respect each other, don't mind the other's company but don't actively maintain a relationship outside of work and aren't particularly close friends.

[HomerMcvie]

This would make a LOT of sense. People in America seem so much more friendly than people in the UK. I've heard that in stores over there people talk to eachother and make contact like people actually should (Yes, shock horror, British Public) Over here, we talk very little to eachother and I know for a fact in shops the money is echanged and people do leave without having said hello, thankyou or goodbye. For John being british, I imagine meeting Lindsey before he knew him properly would be really... overwhelming? If that's the right way to put it?
You should try our southern states! I live in Indiana, but spend a lot of time in Tennessee. Even though it's only 300 miles difference, there IS a difference in people greeting people. Down there, strangers greet you on the street. That rarely happens(or at least not to the extent) here at home. So there's "southern hospitality" for you.

[goldustsongbird]

So I think they like each other, but, just have nothing much to talk about, and no particular reason to hang out together.

That's exactly how Rolling Stone described it in 1980.
There isn't much conversation besides what needs to be said to get the job done. It's not that this rehearsal isn't friendly; it's just that these people seem to have evolved beyond camaraderie. They've spent too much time with each other, though lately not so much.

Buckingham, casually passing by Fleetwood, stops to ask him what he did after the record-company party last night.

"We definitely transcended. Ended up jamming with Curry (Grant, the lighting director) till the wee hours. Actually, we were playing one of your songs, from Buckingham Nicks," Fleetwood says, mentioning the album that prompted him to ask Lindsey and Stevie to join the band five years ago.

"Oh, really?" Buckingham says, suddenly interested. "Which song?"

"Uh...I forget the name," says Fleetwood sheepishly.

"Was it 'Don't Let Me Down Again'?"

"Noooo...."

"'Without A Leg To Stand On'?"

"Nooo...well, I'm not sure," Fleetwood answers. "It could've been. Yeah."

They smile politely and Buckingham goes his way, Fleetwood his.

[michelej1]

Lindsey has said that he used to think John's bass line was too busy, but, once he learned to just accept it, that he also came to appreciate John's playing/skill.

Yes, he talked about the tension of thinking that someone is going to step all over your guitar parts and then they don't and he appreciated the creativity that stemmed from that tension.

I think John and Lindsey would never have picked each other as friends and aren't friends. However, just because they've spent many, many hours crammed up together, like it or not, and gone through the drama of Rumours and its aftermath together, I think they have a familial relationship, the more ingrained because it developed during very formative stages in their lives.

I think when you learn to co-exist with one another, a bond develops. I think it's beyond mere co-worker thing. Maybe a cousin thing, I don't know . . . I'm just thinking I have cousins I haven't spoken to in years, but if I got word that she died tomorrow, it would phase me quite a bit, just because of the reservoir of memories that built up many years ago.

As for Mick, I don't think Lindsey thinks Mick is at all responsible for his success -- not at all. However, I get the feeling that Lindsey's feelings for Mick are quite strong. I think Mick is one of those people he has cared about consistently for decades, even during times when he would rather not have. Deep affection, love, sometimes grudging love.

Michele

[hippilil86]

Yes, he talked about the tension of thinking that someone is going to step all over your guitar parts and then they don't and he appreciated the creativity that stemmed from that tension.

I think John and Lindsey would never have picked each other as friends and aren't friends. However, just because they've spent many, many hours crammed up together, like it or not, and gone through the drama of Rumours and its aftermath together, I think they have a familial relationship, the more ingrained because it developed during very formative stages in their lives.

I think when you learn to co-exist with one another, a bond develops. I think it's beyond mere co-worker thing. Maybe a cousin thing, I don't know . . . I'm just thinking I have cousins I haven't spoken to in years, but if I got word that she died tomorrow, it would phase me quite a bit, just because of the reservoir of memories that built up many years ago.

As for Mick, I don't think Lindsey thinks Mick is at all responsible for his success -- not at all. However, I get the feeling that Lindsey's feelings for Mick are quite strong. I think Mick is one of those people he has cared about consistently for decades, even during times when he would rather not have. Deep affection, love, sometimes grudging love.

Michele

That's a good way to put it, Michele. As for Mick, I just always think of the story I have heard about Mick living in a trailer at the end of Lindsey's garden (or driveway, or whatever) during the recording of TITN, because he had run out of money. It's a definite begrudging friendship, consistently caring for one another in some sort. Lindsey may not have invited Mick to live with him during that time, but he allowed him to stay on his property. (I hope I got that story right, and didn't just imagine it.)

[Lindsfan]

I've always wondered more about Mick and Lindsey's relationship, moreso than John and Lindsey. Do you think that Lindsey feels that he partially owes his success to Mick? I've always wondered why they've stayed in touch, even though Mick seems fame/money hungry, and Lindsey seems "dedicated to artistic integrity"

I think Mick and Lindsey are very close, and always have been. They've upset each other a lot at various times, but, I think they take it particularly harder because they care so much about each other.

I love this article, where Mick and John talk about how they met:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/how-we-met-mick-fleetwood-and-lindsey-buckingham-1149147.html


After Lindsey left the band I didn't see him for years. To be quite blunt, we grew apart. Then we both reached out to each other two years ago. I wrote to him around the time me and John broke the band up. I was very much at a loose end, when Lindsey asked me to play on his solo album. Initially I thought it would just be two weeks in the studio as two players, two guys. It turned out to be over a year.

That was the beginning of a whole new relationship for me and Lindsey. We'd go out and have meals and talk about things that'd worried him in the past. I love his ability to be terrifyingly truthful. It's a great attribute, but he needs to be careful with it. And his intensity makes me nervous. In the past I would get devastated by it. Meeting up again was good stuff, and it continues to be good stuff: I think he loves me, I feel he has respect for me, and in a friendly way he knows I'm a bit of an old rascal.

Will we be friends in 10 years time? Absolutely. One hundred per cent. If we never played another note together, the relationship would still be there.

[hippilil86]

I think Mick and Lindsey are very close, and always have been. They've upset each other a lot at various times, but, I think they take it particularly harder because they care so much about each other.

I love this article, where Mick and Lindsey talk about how they met:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/how-we-met-mick-fleetwood-and-lindsey-buckingham-1149147.html


After Lindsey left the band I didn't see him for years. To be quite blunt, we grew apart. Then we both reached out to each other two years ago. I wrote to him around the time me and John broke the band up. I was very much at a loose end, when Lindsey asked me to play on his solo album. Initially I thought it would just be two weeks in the studio as two players, two guys. It turned out to be over a year.

That was the beginning of a whole new relationship for me and Lindsey. We'd go out and have meals and talk about things that'd worried him in the past. I love his ability to be terrifyingly truthful. It's a great attribute, but he needs to be careful with it. And his intensity makes me nervous. In the past I would get devastated by it. Meeting up again was good stuff, and it continues to be good stuff: I think he loves me, I feel he has respect for me, and in a friendly way he knows I'm a bit of an old rascal.

Will we be friends in 10 years time? Absolutely. One hundred per cent. If we never played another note together, the relationship would still be there.

I like this quote from Mick about Stevie and Lindsey: "Lindsey and Stevie are always gonna be an item of sorts, though, they have an unsquashable alliance whether they like it or not."

[Lindsfan]

Well, on the Unleashed Tour Lindsey would go over to John on Rhiannon and sort of jam for a bit before the chorus kicked back in.

Also, another thing that comes to my mind, on the SYW documentary, Lindsey gets emotional talking about the band getting back together and i remember a quote "and seeing John".

"and seeing John" :) That's so sweet!

Typical John and Lindsey near the end...at about 3:50:

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How cute are they??:nod: