40 Years

[sharksfan2000]

It occurred to me this evening that it's been 40 years since the beginning of the string of live recordings that stretch from the San Francisco Fillmore West shows on 2 and 4 January 1970 through the New Orleans Warehouse shows at the end of that month, the Boston Tea Party shows in February, the European tour shows in March, the live BBC set from early April, to the Chalk Farm Roundhouse show on 24 April. I think the recordings we have from those few months, variable sound quality and all, are many of the band's finest. And all in all, the live recordings show much more of what this band was capable of than the studio tracks.

Do others here feel that this was the peak period for the Peter Green-era Fleetwood Mac? Or do you prefer an earlier period to this one?

[Mario]

It occurred to me this evening that it's been 40 years since the beginning of the string of live recordings that stretch from the San Francisco Fillmore West shows on 2 and 4 January 1970 through the New Orleans Warehouse shows at the end of that month, the Boston Tea Party shows in February, the European tour shows in March, the live BBC set from early April, to the Chalk Farm Roundhouse show on 24 April. I think the recordings we have from those few months, variable sound quality and all, are many of the band's finest. And all in all, the live recordings show much more of what this band was capable of than the studio tracks.

Do others here feel that this was the peak period for the Peter Green-era Fleetwood Mac? Or do you prefer an earlier period to this one?

I do feel that the last time with Peter Green is the BEST ever.....they were in sterling form, think about the BBC Radio One In Concert April 9th 1970... they didn't get any better than that.....
And this just proves that the Munich trip didn't put Peter in the care and attention category.....he was at his pinnacle even after that happened.....

[dino]

I agree wholeheartedly - those live tapes of the final months are very valuable and represent the band and Peter at their peak IMHO. Some may feel that the band was to "jammy" at this point, bring it on I say!

[ash1]

i completely agree. while the very early mac are superb i do get bored by the endless elmores and slow blues. it's the jammy stuff for me ! when i hear fm shows from late 69 to Peter leaving i have to say they must have been the best band in the world at that point. PG is the finest uk guitarist and if he does noodle it sounds beautiful and inspired unlike clapton whose "cult" i've never really understood. personally i'm always ready to hear another 25 minutes of rattlesnake shake. Danny was the perfect foil and when all 3 are slamming tiger and stranger blues i'm overwhelmed. it's such a desperate shame what happened to Peter and Danny. and the general public have lost out coz they dont get to hear the concert tapes that are around ...then play on is a bit of a mess (with some incredible highlights) so there isnt too much released evidence of this amazing bands abilities.
wouldn't it be great if Mick or someone official could stream or torrent all existing shows from a website or give a full release to the bbc in concert show. i wonder what else is lurking in Dinky Dawsons /wolfgangs vault archives.

[librax2]

I also agree. And I, too, get bored with the Elmore stuff. I generally just skip Elmore and the 50's rock numbers. No question that PG was at the top of his game when he left FM. Sometimes the jammy stuff gets a bit much, but I'll take that over the other stuff

[Mario]

I also agree. And I, too, get bored with the Elmore stuff. I generally just skip Elmore and the 50's rock numbers. No question that PG was at the top of his game when he left FM. Sometimes the jammy stuff gets a bit much, but I'll take that over the other stuff

Well, if you think about that, it was why Peter wanted a third guitar player, to develope.....

Mario.;)

[Wouter Vuijk]

It occurred to me this evening that it's been 40 years since the beginning of the string of live recordings that stretch from the San Francisco Fillmore West shows on 2 and 4 January 1970 through the New Orleans Warehouse shows at the end of that month, the Boston Tea Party shows in February, the European tour shows in March, the live BBC set from early April, to the Chalk Farm Roundhouse show on 24 April. I think the recordings we have from those few months, variable sound quality and all, are many of the band's finest. And all in all, the live recordings show much more of what this band was capable of than the studio tracks.

Do others here feel that this was the peak period for the Peter Green-era Fleetwood Mac? Or do you prefer an earlier period to this one?

I very much enjoy the late '68 and early '69 (Caroussel Ballroom, Shrine, Den Haag) and the very beginning. I also feel Peter is/was at his bluesbest on the yet to be published live tapes with John Mayall. From 1970 on there was much more jamming. Peter really developed himself, as did Danny, as a musician. However I get the shivers on my spine when they play the blues.
Happy new year everybody :wavey:

[Ms Moose]

personally i'm always ready to hear another 25 minutes of rattlesnake shake.

:lol: This is exactly how I feel, ash1. This is how you diagnose true addiction....

And it would be great if all those great '70 spring concerts could be shared with all music-lovers. 9th of April '70 BBC Concert off course. I had forgotten how great that is...

Just the same I agree with Wouiter - the late '68 and early '69 live stuff is great too. Also the unreleased live Mayall tapes. Pure clear superior british blues. (I wonder what happens to these tapes on John The Revelators homepage, anyway).

Ms Moose

[slipkid]

I agree with you all, the Peter Green 1970 concerts were Fleetwood Mac finally finding an identity, with a great live setlist. The Roundhouse show setlist in April (Wolfgang's Vault) could've been the beginning of a great U.S. tour that summer. I've said it before, if Green remained in the band another six months, they would be talking about him in the states as much as they talk about Eric Clapton today.

[Norton]

I have a double Live at the BBC album which is a compilation of tracks released in 1995. (this is not the Live BBC from the Paris Cinema, April 9th 1970 ). See the following comments from:-

http://discog.fleetwoodmac.net/discog.php?pid=192

Quote:-

"Contains live material recorded for the British Broadcasting Company between 1967 & 1970

On the whole, less improvisational than some may hope but still colorful and varied nonetheless. According to "The complete recording sessions" book, there's at least another 70 odd recordings still in the BBC vaultsof the Mac up until 1971, one can only hope these see the light of day soon too."

My question is:-

Does anyone know on what albums (if any) the 70 odd tracks surfaced over the last 15 years?

[Mario]

I have a double Live at the BBC album which is a compilation of tracks released in 1995. (this is not the Live BBC from the Paris Cinema, April 9th 1970 ). See the following comments from:-

http://discog.fleetwoodmac.net/discog.php?pid=192

Quote:-

"Contains live material recorded for the British Broadcasting Company between 1967 & 1970

On the whole, less improvisational than some may hope but still colorful and varied nonetheless. According to "The complete recording sessions" book, there's at least another 70 odd recordings still in the BBC vaultsof the Mac up until 1971, one can only hope these see the light of day soon too."

My question is:-

Does anyone know on what albums (if any) the 70 odd tracks surfaced over the last 15 years?


The whole Radio One In Concert April 9th 1970 is available on "Show-Biz Blues" the follow up to the "Vaudeville Years".....;)
That boxset has plenty of BBC recordings, stated as "Promotional sessions"......
Mario.

[Norton]

The whole Radio One In Concert April 9th 1970 is available on "Show-Biz Blues" the follow up to the "Vaudeville Years".....;)
That boxset has plenty of BBC recordings, stated as "Promotional sessions"......
Mario.

Mario, thanks for the info.

I have both Show-Biz Blues and The Vaudeville Years, Show-Biz has a total of 29 tracks, 3 of which are from Peter B's, not Fleetwood Mac, and Vaudeville has 31 tracks. This means that 13 odd tracks are still un-accounted for....
Does anyone know what happened to these?


Hppy New Year to one and all..

[sharksfan2000]

I have both Show-Biz Blues and The Vaudeville Years, Show-Biz has a total of 29 tracks, 3 of which are from Peter B's, not Fleetwood Mac, and Vaudeville has 31 tracks. This means that 13 odd tracks are still un-accounted for....
Does anyone know what happened to these?
Norton, it's actually a lot more complicated than that. A lot of the tracks from Show-Biz Blues and Vaudeville Years are not from BBC sessions, but are instead recording session out-takes or alternate takes of released tracks, i.e. "The Madge Sessions", "Do You Give A Damn For Me", "World In Harmony", and many others. So only a portion of the total tracks on those discs are actually from BBC sessions.

Where are the rest of them? Very good question...many have appeared on any number of bootlegs over the years, and as you'd expect from boots, the sound quality ranges from ok to poor. And many of these were originally taped straight from the radio broadcasts since you can hear the announcer talking over the beginning and/or end of some of these tracks. But even with these bootlegged tracks, there are still a lot of BBC session tracks that have never seen the light of day, and it's a good question as to whether we'll ever be able to hear many of those. Who knows whether they all even still exist and if so, what shape they're in...and then it would take someone with enough money to track them down, pay for licensing, compile them (and presumably clean up the sound as needed), and release them, and then have a reasonable expectation of at least recovering their expenses from sales.

Although most of us here would love to hear another BBC session collection, I don't know what the market for such a disc would be - anyone know how many copies of Live At the BBC were sold?

[Mario]

Norton, it's actually a lot more complicated than that. A lot of the tracks from Show-Biz Blues and Vaudeville Years are not from BBC sessions, but are instead recording session out-takes or alternate takes of released tracks, i.e. "The Madge Sessions", "Do You Give A Damn For Me", "World In Harmony", and many others. So only a portion of the total tracks on those discs are actually from BBC sessions.

Where are the rest of them? Very good question...many have appeared on any number of bootlegs over the years, and as you'd expect from boots, the sound quality ranges from ok to poor. And many of these were originally taped straight from the radio broadcasts since you can hear the announcer talking over the beginning and/or end of some of these tracks. But even with these bootlegged tracks, there are still a lot of BBC session tracks that have never seen the light of day, and it's a good question as to whether we'll ever be able to hear many of those. Who knows whether they all even still exist and if so, what shape they're in...and then it would take someone with enough money to track them down, pay for licensing, compile them (and presumably clean up the sound as needed), and release them, and then have a reasonable expectation of at least recovering their expenses from sales.

Although most of us here would love to hear another BBC session collection, I don't know what the market for such a disc would be - anyone know how many copies of Live At the BBC were sold?

Actually Sanctuary Records planned a 3 cds boxset some years ago, with unreleased numbers, Martin wrote the sleeve notes for that, but nothing happened due to copyright reasons, BBC wasn't so keen to licence (hope in my English here) the tracks, I'm afraid!
Mario.

[sharksfan2000]

Actually Sanctuary Records planned a 3 cds boxset some years ago, with unreleased numbers, Martin wrote the sleeve notes for that, but nothing happened due to copyright reasons, BBC wasn't so keen to licence (hope in my English here) the tracks, I'm afraid!
Mario.
I remember that planned box set, Mario. I wondered why it was never released, now I know - thanks for the info! Hope it might still be released sometime in the future.

[Norton]

I remember that planned box set, Mario. I wondered why it was never released, now I know - thanks for the info! Hope it might still be released sometime in the future.

This looks like another dead end!
From Wikipedia:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_Records_Group

In April 2007 Billboard Magazine reported that Sanctuary Records would cease to exist as a new release label in the US that summer, though catalog, licensing, and new media operations would continue. On October 22, 2007, the record company was absorbed by Universal Music Group.

Would Universal Music Group be likely to pick up the challenge?

I would be very interested to see Martins sleeve notes though as it may give a clue as to what is still hidden in Auntie Beebs bottom drawer.

[Almost Simon]

I would be very interested to see Martins sleeve notes though as it may give a clue as to what is still hidden in Auntie Beebs bottom drawer.

Me too, definitely. I'd love that job.

Not sure what the BBC holds. I've definitely heard some BBC studio session tracks re-broadcast over the years, tracks that never made the BBC Sessions double cd. In fact a lot of the tracks were from the Kiln House era, but some Peter Green tracks also before 1970.

As for live shows from the Green era, I did see some of the tracks from 1970 rebroadcast on BBC Radio 6 late last year. Only a couple of tunes, cant remember the names but the part they played was very jammy and lasted 20 mins or so.

But yes, let me down into the vaults, i'll happily go through the tapes. Please :cool:

Oh, just as a note, I was watching some of the music shows broadcast on BBC4 over the Christmas period last night. Friday nights (01/01/10) episode of 'Guitar Heroes at the BBC' showed the Top of The Pops clip from 1971 with Peter Green performing 'Heavy Heart.

I know that clip is readily viewable on Youtube but was nice to see again on TV. You can still catch it on the BBC Iplayer if you're watching from the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00pjl55/Guitar_Heroes_at_the_BBC_Part_V/

[sharksfan2000]

This looks like another dead end!
From Wikipedia:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_Records_Group

In April 2007 Billboard Magazine reported that Sanctuary Records would cease to exist as a new release label in the US that summer, though catalog, licensing, and new media operations would continue. On October 22, 2007, the record company was absorbed by Universal Music Group.

Would Universal Music Group be likely to pick up the challenge?

I would be very interested to see Martins sleeve notes though as it may give a clue as to what is still hidden in Auntie Beebs bottom drawer.
Thanks for the link, Norton. FWIW, this was the thread on the Ledge discussing that planned release, back when it was announced in the fall of 2004: http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=16113

And while we're on the subject of defunct record labels, I'd still love to know what happened to the recordings of Greeny and Duane Allman that were supposedly unearthed by Capricorn Records back in the late '90s: http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=15619 Here's what Wikipedia has to say about Capricorn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capricorn_Records

And now that I re-read that info, I noticed the mention of "newly discovered Mayall BBC and live tapes, many featuring the Hard Road touring band" - wonder if those are the same recordings that Wouter and Ms. Moose mentioned above, short clips of which are on the John The Revelator website: http://www.johntherevelator.nl/discografie.php?id=1d0c951afcda7000fd07e553678da424&item_id=43d801bce942a02616495f99f96260a3 Very possibly also the same recordings that Daniel had mentioned in a post back in 2004: December 3, 1998: MOJO magazine, December 1998 -- "A priceless live tape of John Mayall's Bluesbreakers featuring Peter Green has been discovered by Mike Vernon. Details are sketchy, but the recording includes versions of Double Trouble, Hideaway, All Your Love and The Stumble. Expect it next year on Deram."

So there is still a lot of unreleased music out there - let's hope we get to hear some of it in 2010!

[slipkid]

Me too, definitely. I'd love that job.

Not sure what the BBC holds. I've definitely heard some BBC studio session tracks re-broadcast over the years, tracks that never made the BBC Sessions double cd. In fact a lot of the tracks were from the Kiln House era, but some Peter Green tracks also before 1970.

This was added to Youtube not too long ago. It's Fleetwood Mac's version of Willie Dixon's "You Need Love". This song later became "Whole Lotta Love" by Led Zeppelin. Even though it's not Dixon's version, you can tell how Led Zeppelin used every loophole (thanks to Peter Grant) to get by with blatant stealing. They didn't admit to the original artists of the songs from the first LZ album until years, and years later! At least FM changed the lyrics (Ramblin' Pony = Rollin' and Tumblin', and it was considered traditional music).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIKu-EfgXfs

[Norton]

This was added to Youtube not too long ago. It's Fleetwood Mac's version of Willie Dixon's "You Need Love". This song later became "Whole Lotta Love" by Led Zeppelin. Even though it's not Dixon's version, you can tell how Led Zeppelin used every loophole (thanks to Peter Grant) to get by with blatant stealing. They didn't admit to the original artists of the songs from the first LZ album until years, and years later! At least FM changed the lyrics (Ramblin' Pony = Rollin' and Tumblin', and it was considered traditional music).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIKu-EfgXfs

I thought I had a very extensive collection of P Green flavoured Mac.... but I keep getting excited about things I have not heard before... this is one of them.

Where did it come from, I need to get a copy.

Also, MsMoose gave a link on YouTube to 'The Stumble'. Mario is absolutely correct, it is on 'Essentially John Mayall', CD5 track 3....

[Mario]

I thought I had a very extensive collection of P Green flavoured Mac.... but I keep getting excited about things I have not heard before... this is one of them.

Where did it come from, I need to get a copy.

Also, MsMoose gave a link on YouTube to 'The Stumble'. Mario is absolutely correct, it is on 'Essentially John Mayall', CD5 track 3....

;)If my memory serves me still right, that song was available on a Moby Dick bootleg called "Blues With A Feeling"....

Of course what I mean is the track "You Need Love".....

Mario.

[Ms Moose]

This was added to Youtube not too long ago. It's Fleetwood Mac's version of Willie Dixon's "You Need Love". This song later became "Whole Lotta Love" by Led Zeppelin. Even though it's not Dixon's version, you can tell how Led Zeppelin used every loophole (thanks to Peter Grant) to get by with blatant stealing. They didn't admit to the original artists of the songs from the first LZ album until years, and years later! At least FM changed the lyrics (Ramblin' Pony = Rollin' and Tumblin', and it was considered traditional music).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIKu-EfgXfs

I have never heard the FM version before. Great to hear something I haven't heard before. Does anyone know when it was recorded and where it is from?
This FM rendition reminds me of a song called 'Can I get a witness' (I have heard it in a version with Dusty Springfield, and a danish band called The Caravans (from 1964) - it is an old Rhytm and Blues number).

Talking about Led Zeppelin - and I know I have posted this Youtube audio before - listen to this Small Faces version form 1965(!), and Steve Marriotts vocal in particular. It is rather obvious who inspired Robert Plant....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkQpZpFLpv4

And Sharksfan2000: There is probably lots of great unreleased stuff out there. I also wonder what happened to the tapes on John The Revelator page. Lots of people posted requests on the homepage, but they never seemed to answer. I remember we were informed by a fellow ledgie who was the brother of the man who owned the tapes (?) that there was issues around ownership ect. Unfortunately I don't have time right now to find his name and the thread, sorry.

Ms Moose

[sharksfan2000]

I have never heard the FM version before. Great to hear something I haven't heard before. Does anyone know when it was recorded and where it is from?
It's from a BBC session recorded in late August 1968 and broadcast in October of that year. That was the first of the band's BBC session recordings after Danny Kirwan joined.

[Norton]

And Sharksfan2000: There is probably lots of great unreleased stuff out there. I also wonder what happened to the tapes on John The Revelator page. Lots of people posted requests on the homepage, but they never seemed to answer. I remember we were informed by a fellow ledgie who was the brother of the man who owned the tapes (?) that there was issues around ownership ect. Unfortunately I don't have time right now to find his name and the thread, sorry.

Ms Moose
Look at this thread, the guy you need is Derek Slade:-

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=15417&highlight=John+Revelator

Originally Posted by Derek Slade
Thanks indeed for these links, zoork! The John the Revelator site certainly whizzed me back 40 odd years, as Tom Huissen (who recorded the Bluesbreaker tapes) was staying with me and my brother John at our parents' house when most of the tapes were recorded. I was at some of the gigs and John at all of them. It's slightly miffing, though, that almost all of the Mayall/Green photographs from that period on the site were taken by John, and he's not credited, as far as I can see. I must contact Tom and try to get that rectified -- and also find out if CDs of the performances are available.

[Ms Moose]

Look at this thread, the guy you need is Derek Slade:-

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=15417&highlight=John+Revelator

Originally Posted by Derek Slade
Thanks indeed for these links, zoork! The John the Revelator site certainly whizzed me back 40 odd years, as Tom Huissen (who recorded the Bluesbreaker tapes) was staying with me and my brother John at our parents' house when most of the tapes were recorded. I was at some of the gigs and John at all of them. It's slightly miffing, though, that almost all of the Mayall/Green photographs from that period on the site were taken by John, and he's not credited, as far as I can see. I must contact Tom and try to get that rectified -- and also find out if CDs of the performances are available.

Thank you for your help. Yes, Norton - Derek Slade was the man I was thinking of. Of course I remembered going to work on the train some time after I wrote my thread. I even remembered his brother Johns name all of a sudden! :laugh:

Ms Moose

[Norton]

Thank you for your help. Yes, Norton - Derek Slade was the man I was thinking of. Of course I remembered going to work on the train some time after I wrote my thread. I even remembered his brother Johns name all of a sudden! :laugh:

Ms Moose

I've emailed Tom Huissen who very kindly responded today with this:-

Thank you for your interest in the Peter Green tapes.
At the moment I am still in negotiation about an official release of the albums.
The legal side of it takes a lot of time and effort.

As soon as the cd's will be released I will let you know.

With kind regards,
Tom Huissen
singer/bassplayer John the Revelator



..............I just hope that we will not have to wait for too long.

:)

[zoork_1]

Thanks Norton, for letting us know and for putting effort into this....

/z

[sharksfan2000]

Norton, thanks for sending the email and posting the response. I do hope that we see these recordings released sometime soon, though I can imagine there's a lot of red tape to get through in order to release them legally.

[Ms Moose]

Yes, thanks for taking the initiative and putting in the effort, Norton. It's good to know that Tom Huissen is working on it.

Let's hope that one day we will be able to hear this music - hopefully in this life :lol:

Ms Moose