Paper Doll

[cristochango]

This is my first time posting in this forum, but Paper Doll came on on the CD I was listening to today, and I was busy so I didnt hit next like I usually do, I really dug it. What do you guys think of it?

[OldTimer]

This is my first time posting in this forum
Yay! Bring some coffee -- it's kinda quiet over here these days. Wish I could have been here when it was livelier! :)

As for Paper Doll -- it's Stevie's lyrics with music by Rick and his friend, the late John Herron, right? As much as I appreciate most of Rick's contributions to FM, this isn't one of my favorites. :o I think the lyrics are clever and fun, but the musical arrangement is just a bit too boppy for me. Never really figured out why it was on the 25 Yrs Box Set.

[cristochango]

I'm thinkin about going out and buying Behind the Mask and Time.
I know critics said it sucked, but im thinkin i wanna listen to them just to say I have

[Miss Vicky]

You should give them a try.

Only, you have to listen to them with an open mind. They aren't from the Rumours era band so don't expect the music to be all that similar.

Personally, I really like both albums and have become a big fan of both Billy Burnette and Bekka Bramlett as a result.

As for the song "Paper Doll," eh, it's okay. I'm not crazy about the music or the lyrics, but it's passable.

[AgeOldDesire]

Paper Doll was an adjustment for me. It's not that I didn't like it, it was just different. Way different. But after a few more plays, I came to like the song. It's not a fave; but I don't skip it when it plays.

BTM is a nice album. I got the CD that has the CGI stuff embedded into it that required a special player to view the extra features such as animations/pics of the band while the lyrics displayed. Anyhoo, the songs, imo, are good. I know alot of fans don't care for it much; but I like it a lot.

I don't have the Time album; but the couple of songs I do have from it are pretty good, too.

[michelej1]

This is my first time posting in this forum, but Paper Doll came on on the CD I was listening to today, and I was busy so I didnt hit next like I usually do, I really dug it. What do you guys think of it?

Like it very much. I recall that when it came out with the video full of clips from FM's past, it was like a blow to the stomach. I was overwhelmed with nostalgia then and I still have great fondness for its rollicking sound and wry words today.

Michele

[EnchantedKiwi]

I loved paper doll even before songs like Sara and gypsy, cause it was on the very best of album my parents bought me ages ago. I just think its so catchy and upbeat, plus i love the lyrics like "you like a man with a future you like a woman with a passstt!!.."

[mylittledemon]

I loved paper doll even before songs like Sara and gypsy

Cheyne... tsk tsk. Ahh, to be young ;)

[Fannymac]

I LOVED "Paper Doll" when it first came out, and I love it now....kind of edgy, and very different for Stevie!
As for BEHIND THE MASK and TIME......DEFINITELY pick up BTM....very good album!
I would try to listen to TIME first....very choppy album that was weak 15 years ago, and one that certainly has not stood the test of time. You can definitely tell this was an album that was not done as a group (particularly Christine's songs!)....the harmonies ~ and harmony! ~ just aren't there! (Yeah, I know "harmony" isn't a word that's usually associated with Fleetwood Mac, but even dissonant harmony is better than none at all!)

[PenguinHead]

I think Paper Doll is a fun and quirky collaboration between Stevie and Rick. It was actually released as a single, but I never heard it on the radio. It's one of those singles that gets conveniently omitted official singles lists.

[chiliD]

Over the past 18 years (YIKES!! Has it REALLY been that long already?), "Paper Doll" has definitely grown on me. Didn't like it at all when the Chain box first was released, but now, compared to other of La Nicks' tunes of the era, it's one of my faves. (why they decided to release "No Questions Asked" over "Paper Doll" to begin with, still boggles the mind...unless the released version of "Paper Doll" was SEVERELY improved for inclusion on the box set than any version that was around in '88 when the Greatest Hits was being compiled.)

[Miss Vicky]

Over the past 18 years (YIKES!! Has it REALLY been that long already?), "Paper Doll" has definitely grown on me. Didn't like it at all when the Chain box first was released, but now, compared to other of La Nicks' tunes of the era, it's one of my faves. (why they decided to release "No Questions Asked" over "Paper Doll" to begin with, still boggles the mind...unless the released version of "Paper Doll" was SEVERELY improved for inclusion on the box set than any version that was around in '88 when the Greatest Hits was being compiled.)

I see it totally differently. I LOVED "Paper Doll" when I first heard it. I thought it was fun and catchy at the time (circa 1998 when I first got the set). Nowadays it's just okay/borderline annoying. Whereas I've always loved "No Questions Asked."

[Phoenixgypsy]

I really love Paper Doll!! Oh--I'll admit it, I love everything Stevie does!

[jrpjr]

OMG!!! her worst song..the lyrics r rediculous....her vocals??? wow!! i guess to each their own...im glad ppl like it....but i cannot bear to listen to 1 note of this clanging mess...sorry

[bellagypsy79]

Paper Doll...a big plus in my book. I love that song. "you prefer to be just a little bit in and out of love with me..." I love that line. It reminds me of me and someone else I know. Has there ever been a demo for this song? And if so could someone post it? When did Stevie write this song anyway? Also, was there ever a music video for it?

[sjpdg]

Always sort of liked "Paper Doll". I wouldn't rank it as one of my favourites, but certainly not one of the songs I try to skip when playing CDs. True it's not what most would consider "traditional" FM type material, but really everyone, what is "traditional" FM material??

Definitely agree with those who think it should have been put out as a single instead of "No Questions Asked". That is one of my least favourite of all FM songs, any album, any era, bar none, IMHO. I just have never been able to get into that song. That one I skip every time I have the "Greatest Hits" CD playing. Didn't even include it in my iTunes library when I put my whole CD library on there.

As for "Behind The Mask", think it's a great CD. Have always liked it, have expressed that numerous times on this forum, along with my feelings about Rick, Billy and their contributions to the Mac. Not a huge fan of "Time" but don't hate it either. Seems disjointed and not all the material fits together. Not all bad, just not a "great" CD. I became a little more of a Billy fan because of this and one of his solo CD's after, along with coming to appreciate the talents of Bekka Bramlett.

[paleshadow]

OMG!!! her worst song..the lyrics r rediculous....her vocals??? wow!! i guess to each their own...im glad ppl like it....but i cannot bear to listen to 1 note of this clanging mess...sorry

I never liked it either. I remember when the boxed set was coming out, and the single was released. I went straight to the record store and bought the "cassingle". The sales person asked me how the song was, and I said "I haven't heard it yet". She was amazed that I would buy a song without knowing if I would like it or not. I popped it in the cassette player in my car and disliked it from the moment I heard it. I thought her vocal was really bad, and for the most part the lyrics were too. I think the best lyrics in the song are the ones she lifted from Oscar Wilde.

[michelej1]

Paper Doll...a big plus in my book. I love that song. "you prefer to be just a little bit in and out of love with me..." I love that line. It reminds me of me and someone else I know. Has there ever been a demo for this song? And if so could someone post it? When did Stevie write this song anyway? Also, was there ever a music video for it?

And I love it that being in and out of love with her is tantamount to being in and out of agony.

Being fascinated by someone else yesterday puts me in mind of "sunflowers and your face," so I just love that line and I also embrace the simplicity of "well, you could have said no. You could have said I just can't." It makes me think of something she might have said during the Tango fight, so that gets to me too.

I mean, the way I hear the words in this song is heavily influenced by the video, therefore an FM film strip flashes through my head fullspeed, with every line in the song until it gives me a rush that has little rational relation to the song's quality as music.

We were mirrors of our former selves.

Michele

[louielouie2000]

I'm thinkin about going out and buying Behind the Mask and Time.
I know critics said it sucked, but im thinkin i wanna listen to them just to say I have

I definitely encourage you to get Behind The Mask, and any other Mac/solo album you don't have. If for no other reason, to better understand the journey the band has gone through the past 40 years. Behind The Mask definitely doesn't rank anywhere near the top of my favorite Mac albums... but it does have some solid material on it. Christine's material, as always, is great. The title track is spooky and wonderful, and Save Me is textbook bopping Christine. Minus the fabulously malicious Freedom, Stevie's songs are pretty lackluster. Rick and Billy were really starting to showcase their unique imprints on the Mac in this album... with somewhat mixed results. I think Rick really had something to add to the band... but it's my most humble opinion that Billy seemed out of step.

Anyway, I really do like Paper Doll. But I seem to like most any of Stevie and Rick's pairings. The song is just fun, upbeat, and more than a touch snarky... which I particularly enjoy. I've always wondered who the song was about. In my mind, it's about Mick Fleetwood, and the awkward transition of Fleetwood Mac away from Lindsey Buckingham. We all know that Stevie resented staying in Fleetwood Mac after Lindsey's departure, and my guess is that's what this song is about. About Lindsey instantly being replaced by "men with a future" and she was the "woman with a past" who would allow the band to keep floating along, even without one of it's major stars. Stevie obviously wasn't buying it, saying: "Do you really believe that? She said to the faces in the crowd." I could be totally off base, but I strongly suspect the song to be her directing anger towards Mick for insisting Fleetwood Mac trudge on despite the circumstances. Again, this is just my speculation. The song could be directed solely at Lindsey himself... but I just don't think that makes sense if you really listen to the lyrics.

[vivfox]

And I love it that being in and out of love with her is tantamount to being in and out of agony.
I just love that line and I also embrace the simplicity of "well, you could have said no. You could have said I just can't." It makes me think of something she might have said during the Tango fight, so that gets to me too.
Michele

I think she is talking about herself like she usually does. To me this refers to the Buckingham Nicks album cover photo shoot.

[sleepless child]

I love Paper Doll. My big problem with it was the vocal mix. kind of muddy. It was hard to make out some of the lyrics. No Questions Asked was even harder to figure out. But I love the music and flow of the lyrics.

[michelej1]

Anyway, I really do like Paper Doll. But I seem to like most any of Stevie and Rick's pairings. The song is just fun, upbeat, and more than a touch snarky... which I particularly enjoy. I've always wondered who the song was about. In my mind, it's about Mick Fleetwood, and the awkward transition of Fleetwood Mac away from Lindsey Buckingham. We all know that Stevie resented staying in Fleetwood Mac after Lindsey's departure, and my guess is that's what this song is about. About Lindsey instantly being replaced by "men with a future" and she was the "woman with a past" who would allow the band to keep floating along, even without one of it's major stars. Stevie obviously wasn't buying it, saying: "Do you really believe that? She said to the faces in the crowd." I could be totally off base, but I strongly suspect the song to be her directing anger towards Mick for insisting Fleetwood Mac trudge on despite the circumstances. Again, this is just my speculation. The song could be directed solely at Lindsey himself... but I just don't think that makes sense if you really listen to the lyrics.

I think she is talking about herself like she usually does. To me this refers to the Buckingham Nicks album cover photo shoot.

Mark, I know she used the same language in describing what her father said about the album cover, but to me it's unlikely that she was writing about that by the time Paper Doll came around.

But reflecting on what you said, I don't think song lines that are about Lindsey are not about Stevie too. They seldom seem to be mutually exclusive in her lyrics.

Louie, I also think many songs about Lindsey and Stevie are about Fleetwood Mac. Actually, I think the Scholastic Aptitude Test people should construct syllogisms based on these major and minor premises.

For instance, the way Stevie describes FFG she says its about FM on tour and then she breaks it down and says that almost always is going to be about her and Lindsey. To her, I think King's horses are Mick's horses and Mick's horses are Fleetwood Mac. In that same sense, I agree with you that Paper Doll is about FM as a whole. I mean, I see the same thing in Ooh My Love. I think it's about Lindsey leaving and I think it's about that departure leading to the disintegration of Fleetwood Mac's castle walls. So, you go from a very small picture about one or two people (starting maybe as early as BN in the coffee plant, in the shadow of the castle walls, where he used to love to be with her) to a much larger picture of Fleetwood Mac collapsing upon itself. I can see your take on "do you really believe that she said to faces in the crowd" as quite likely.

Also, I am not sure what I would have thought of Paper Doll if I'd never seen the video, but having loved the video as I did, I can't help but see FM in the song. The image of them on the wintry beach, huddled in coats, all looking sinister, together but not touching -- it's even more penetrating and stunning when it flits by in Paper Doll than it was originally in Big Love.

At any rate, I doubt that there are many of Stevie's songs that are about any one thing anyway.

If I'd just heard this song on the radio, without the video images in my mind, I don't know how I would have responded to it, but as it is, the rollicking melody almost resembles music you hear at a circus, as you ride the carousel or in the fun house. Giddy, exciting, but a little distorted, with a hint of the sad and macabre.

Michele

[OldTimer]

the rollicking melody almost resembles music you hear at a circus, as you ride the carousel or in the fun house. Giddy, exciting, but a little distorted, with a hint of the sad and macabre.

Michele

Wow, that's an excellent description! I hadn't thought of it that way but it's perfect.

Here's the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5SOmSEZGzY

I thought WB took away all the FM vids?

[sjpdg]

Wow, that's an excellent description! I hadn't thought of it that way but it's perfect.

Here's the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5SOmSEZGzY

I thought WB took away all the FM vids?

Hey OldTimer!!

You can get this video, as well as a few others on the official FM site too. Here's a link to the video in question.

http://www.fleetwoodmac.com/media/videos/paper-doll

Cheers!
SJPDG

[Villavic]

Wow, that's an excellent description! I hadn't thought of it that way but it's perfect.

Here's the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5SOmSEZGzY

I thought WB took away all the FM vids?

And the video is just a collage of 80s video clips, though there are some shots from Tusk and Rumours years, but few seconds.

[Macfan4life]

Paper Doll is not great but I will say this.......Paper Doll and No Questions Asked are far better than any Stevie song on BTM. If you could put these on BTM, it would have been a better album.

[michelej1]

Paper Doll is not great but I will say this.......Paper Doll and No Questions Asked are far better than any Stevie song on BTM. If you could put these on BTM, it would have been a better album.

Agreed. Plus, I think PD is pretty good actually.

[DownOnRodeo]

I've never entirely understood the animus many fans seems to have against No Questions Asked. I can see how the 'wall of sound' production may not be to everyone's taste, and it's not exactly one of my favorite songs, but I think it's a good track and don't even mind it being on the Greatest Hits collection.

I am ambivalent about Paper Doll. It has good parts, but the drum and bass on the verses annoy me, and Stevie's vocal is not up to scratch. I don't care for the fact that it's on the Very Best collection either. But then, that has some other unusual inclusions (like 'Storms').

[jbrownsjr]

Agreed. Plus, I think PD is pretty good actually.

We've always had a little love for PD. :angel:

[On Ice]

I can see the love for Paper Doll but I don't share it. What irks me is the overuse of the word "well". We were mirrors of our former selves WELL... overwrought and overemphasized in a not so great vocal part. Well made so many appearances in her lyrics over the Rock a Little onwards, well it's worthless thing so... and in Thousand Days, similar to Paper Doll. But, that said, well is used to great effect in older songs like Races are Run- if we could start again, well, who knows have we really changed. The difference is that the line has follow through and connects to the next phrase where later, it was left dangling. So in the end, well, ruins Paper Doll and so many other songs for me.

[DownOnRodeo]

Well said.

[bwboy]

I can see the love for Paper Doll but I don't share it. What irks me is the overuse of the word "well". We were mirrors of our former selves WELL... overwrought and overemphasized in a not so great vocal part. Well made so many appearances in her lyrics over the Rock a Little onwards, well it's worthless thing so... and in Thousand Days, similar to Paper Doll. But, that said, well is used to great effect in older songs like Races are Run- if we could start again, well, who knows have we really changed. The difference is that the line has follow through and connects to the next phrase where later, it was left dangling. So in the end, well, ruins Paper Doll and so many other songs for me.

I listened to Paper Doll after reading this post, expecting to hear the word ‘well’ numerous times, but I only counted 4. That’s fine, I’m not criticizing you, we all have idiosyncrasies, but hearing the word 4 times didn’t bother me, nor would it have been something that caught my attention. Now if she has said it 10 times I might have noticed and been turned off LOL.

For me, Paper Doll is a song I like because I love Fleetwood Mac, but if someone else had recorded it, I’m quite certain I would never have given it another listen. I can also completely see how this song was not a hit. It’s not rock, it’s not pop, it’s not country, it’s almost a folk song on acid. I heard it one time on my local radio station when it was released, and it clearly didn’t catch on locally, let alone anywhere else. I really felt the same way about every one of her songs on BTM- I remember thinking “wow, there’s not one solo Stevie song I could imagine being a single or on the radio.”

[BombaySapphire3]

I really felt the same way about every one of her songs on BTM- I remember thinking “wow, there’s not one solo Stevie song I could imagine being a single or on the radio.”

She didn't have one on Tango either. Sandy Stewart supplied the hit single.

[bwboy]

She didn't have one on Tango either. Sandy Stewart supplied the hit single.

Yeah, I’m the only person on this board who doesn’t care who writes the song. As far as I’m concerned, the singer is just as important, if not more so, than the songwriter. Crystal and I Don’t Want to Know are two of my favorite Lindsey songs, and I don’t care that Stevie wrote them. Seven Wonders is a Stevie song in my eyes because she sang it- just like every song Christine gave FM after Mirage was co-written by Eddy Quintala, but as long as Christine sang it, it’s a Christine song. To me, anyway- maybe not to anyone else here.

[UnwindedDreams]

Yeah, I’m the only person on this board who doesn’t care who writes the song. As far as I’m concerned, the singer is just as important, if not more so, than the songwriter. Crystal and I Don’t Want to Know are two of my favorite Lindsey songs, and I don’t care that Stevie wrote them. Seven Wonders is a Stevie song in my eyes because she sang it- just like every song Christine gave FM after Mirage was co-written by Eddy Quintala, but as long as Christine sang it, it’s a Christine song. To me, anyway- maybe not to anyone else here.
I call Seven Wonders a Stevie song. Would you call "Crash Into Me" and "Rock and Roll" Stevie Nicks songs?

I Don't Want To Know is a duet though isn't it?

Isn't It Midnight was co-written with E.Q. and L.B.

[SteveMacD]

Yeah, I’m the only person on this board who doesn’t care who writes the song. As far as I’m concerned, the singer is just as important, if not more so, than the songwriter.

So, you're telling me it's the singer, not the song?

[SteveMacD]

I call Seven Wonders a Stevie song. Would you call "Crash Into Me" and "Rock and Roll" Stevie Nicks songs?
The difference there is that, to my knowledge, Sandy Stewart wrote the song for Stevie, and Stevie added some additional lyrics, which isn't exactly the same thing as two covers of massive hits that had nothing to do with Stevie.

I Don't Want To Know is a duet though isn't it?
And, it's authorship has recently come under question, since the lyrics are much more like something Lindsey would have written and Stevie's never performed the song since early 1975.

[DownOnRodeo]

So, you're telling me it's the singer, not the song?

Did you ever notice... that's the only song from the Gift of Screws bootleg not to make it onto a subsequent album? Wait, so is Got To Get Away.

[UnwindedDreams]

The difference there is that, to my knowledge, Sandy Stewart wrote the song for Stevie, and Stevie added some additional lyrics, which isn't exactly the same thing as two covers of massive hits that had nothing to do with Stevie. I agree with you. Stevie's lyric contribution for Seven Wonders was "All the way down to Emmaline".
I consider Everyday, Talk to Me, Sometimes It's a Bitch, Stop Draggin' Stevie songs too. But I don't consider Just Like a Woman or Carousel Stevie Nicks songs because they were released first by someone else. But they are good covers by Stevie.


And, it's authorship has recently come under question, since the lyrics are much more like something Lindsey would have written and Stevie's never performed the song since early 1975.
It's rather than its?!!! :p I believe it's a Stevie composition. The talk of listening to your spirit, trying to survive, standing between you and love. It sounds Stevieish.
Stevie said she resents the song because it replaced Silver Springs on the album. I wish she would've dons it with Neil.

[michelej1]

Welllllllllll, i don’t think you do.

[bwboy]

I agree with you. Stevie's lyric contribution for Seven Wonders was "All the way down to Emmaline".
I consider Everyday, Talk to Me, Sometimes It's a Bitch, Stop Draggin' Stevie songs too. But I don't consider Just Like a Woman or Carousel Stevie Nicks songs because they were released first by someone else. But they are good covers by Stevie.



It's rather than its?!!! :p I believe it's a Stevie composition. The talk of listening to your spirit, trying to survive, standing between you and love. It sounds Stevieish.
Stevie said she resents the song because it replaced Silver Springs on the album. I wish she would've dons it with Neil.

I feel exactly as you do about all those songs you mentioned being Stevie songs. And here I thought I was the only one who felt that way.

As for I Don’t Want to Know, no way do I believe Stevie didn’t write that. The whole reason they put that song on the album was to placate her because they took Silver Springs off Rumours- I hardly think taking SS off and putting a song written by Lindsey on instead would have made her feel better.

[UnwindedDreams]

I feel exactly as you do about all those songs you mentioned being Stevie songs. And here I thought I was the only one who felt that way.
Yep, Some Become Strangers, I Will Run To You, Too Far From Texas, Maybe Love, Your Hand I Will Never Let It Go are all Stevie songs to me.

Now I consider I Still Miss Someone, I Need To Know, Docklands, and Cry Wolf to be covers. Do you consider them to be Stevie Nicks songs? Just interested.

[bwboy]

Yep, Some Become Strangers, I Will Run To You, Too Far From Texas, Maybe Love, Your Hand I Will Never Let It Go are all Stevie songs to me.

Now I consider I Still Miss Someone, I Need To Know, Docklands, and Cry Wolf to be covers. Do you consider them to be Stevie Nicks songs? Just interested.

Nope, I’m right there with you! What do you think about Blue Letter and the Farmer’s Daughter? Fleetwood Mac songs or covers?

And to make this subject even more complicated, what are your thoughts about Make Me a Mask? Do you consider that song a FM song?

[UnwindedDreams]

Nope, I’m right there with you! What do you think about Blue Letter and the Farmer’s Daughter? Fleetwood Mac songs or covers?

And to make this subject even more complicated, what are your thoughts about Make Me a Mask? Do you consider that song a FM song?
Farmer's Daughter is a cover to me. Blue Letter is an FM song for me because it was first released by FM, but it's also a Curtis Bros song because they wrote it. It's like If You Ever Did Believe is a Louis Goffin song but it's a Stevie song because she wrote it. Or Everyday is a Stevie song but it's also a Damon Johnson song because he wrote it.

Make Me a Mask is a Lindsey solo song to me.

[bwboy]

Farmer's Daughter is a cover to me. Blue Letter is an FM song for me because it was first released by FM, but it's also a Curtis Bros song because they wrote it. It's like If You Ever Did Believe is a Louis Goffin song but it's a Stevie song because she wrote it. Or Everyday is a Stevie song but it's also a Damon Johnson song because he wrote it.

Make Me a Mask is a Lindsey solo song to me.

Yep to everything you said. Blue Letter is such a great song, and Lindsey sings it so well, and it even sounds like a song Lindsey would write LOL! Blue Letter is a perfect example of why I wish both FM and their individual members had performed more songs written by other people. I’d love to have heard songs written for Lindsey by someone like Michael Stipe or Brandi Carlisle, for example.

[michelej1]

Yes. IDWTK is definitely a Stevie song and neither one of them would not mention that it wasn’t after all these lo 100 years. Stevie probably just doesn’t like it because Lindsey made her sick of it even before they joined FM. She wanted to move on to her new material and have a song on Rumours that didn’t include so much of his vocals.

[bombaysaffires]

Lindsey recently said that in the past he often gave Stevie tracks to write to which he said "she used to like". IDWK feels like it could definitely be such a song. He didn't name any songs where that might be the case and it would appear he never took any credit for doing so, and that would make one more piece of the puzzle that explains why he has been so angry and took any number of digs at her over the years... I've always felt the extent of his grudge had to go further than just a spurned lover and had just as much if not more to do with his belief that without his playing, arranging and producing her songs she would never have had the level of success she had. If you add to that that he provided music for her to write to and didn't take credit, that would explain a LOT. (For those who think he wouldn't do that, recall she totally wrote at least part of Wild Heart to his track for Can't Go Back and I've never seen him credited as a cowriter).

[HomerMcvie]

Lindsey recently said that in the past he often gave Stevie tracks to write to which he said "she used to like". IDWK feels like it could definitely be such a song. He didn't name any songs where that might be the case and it would appear he ever took any credit for doing so, and that would make one more piece of the puzzle that explains why he has been so angry and took any number of digs at her over the years... I've always felt the extent of his grudge had to go further than just a spurned lover and had just as much if not more to do with his belief that without his playing, arranging and producing her songs she would never have had the level of success she had. If you add to that that he provided the music for her to write to and didn't take credit, that would explain a LOT. (For those who think he wouldn't do that, recall she totally wrote at least part of Wild Heart to his track for Can't Go Back and I've never seen him credited as a cowriter).

That's because she's a bitter old shrew, who surrounded herself with a Yes Army 40 years ago, who tell her that her gas smells like honey. And she believes every bit of smoke they blow up her arse. No wonder she's crazy...

[DownOnRodeo]

Lindsey recently said that in the past he often gave Stevie tracks to write to which he said "she used to like". IDWK feels like it could definitely be such a song. He didn't name any songs where that might be the case and it would appear he ever took any credit for doing so, and that would make one more piece of the puzzle that explains why he has been so angry and took any number of digs at her over the years... I've always felt the extent of his grudge had to go further than just a spurned lover and had just as much if not more to do with his belief that without his playing, arranging and producing her songs she would never have had the level of success she had. If you add to that that he provided the music for her to write to and didn't take credit, that would explain a LOT. (For those who think he wouldn't do that, recall she totally wrote at least part of Wild Heart to his track for Can't Go Back and I've never seen him credited as a cowriter).

Not sure about the music per se, but as for the lyrics alone I could easily believe that Lindsey wrote the verse (which is fairly inane and repetitive) and Stevie wrote the chorus (which has very Stevie lyrics). Also in terms of the story the lyrics tell, the verses sound like Lindsey talking to Stevie and the chorus sounds like Stevie talking to Lindsey--whether in 1974 or in 2018.

[David]

Not sure about the music per se, but as for the lyrics alone I could easily believe that Lindsey wrote the verse (which is fairly inane and repetitive) and Stevie wrote the chorus (which has very Stevie lyrics).

I’m fairly certain that it was written on a guitar (not a piano or anything else) — just the way it moves along, bar to bar, modulates on upbeats and downbeats in a really straightforward way with some syncopation on 2 and 4, “communicates” with the bass, and lays rhythm down for the vocal, etc. That song was written on rhythm guitar, and I don’t think Stevie has ever written an up-tempo guitar song. (Sometimes I think she wrote “Angel” on guitar.)

I think many of the words, too, are Lindseyish, but that’s harder to pin down. Now you tell me that I’m crazy/It’s nothin’ that I didn’t know — Lindsey has written a million other songs with that sort of humor and sarcastic self criticism (I didn’t wanna be this late/So don’t make me wait). Stevie doesn’t write stuff like that. She doesn’t admit to her character flaws with quite so much tongue in cheek. But maybe she wrote this lyric to mimic her man’s hippie/mountain man voice. Maybe that’s part of what the song means: Our relationship is hot and cold so often that we can’t even keep up with it, and I’m starting to sound like you.

[blinker12]

Back to Paper Doll, I just looked up the Wikipedia entry for the song, and apparently it made #9 in Canada??? Like #9 on the pop chart, not even adult contemporary. That kinda blows my mind if it’s true.

It got to #8 on Bubbling Under Hot 100 in the US.

I like the song, except for the lead vocal. Her voice sounds really blown out to me on this one.

[DownOnRodeo]

David, are you trying to tell me that you can't see Stevie composing a song in the key of B on the piano? You wouldn't say that to Dvořák!

[DownOnRodeo]

I like the song, except for the lead vocal. Her voice sounds really blown out to me on this one.

Not only is the vocal subpar, to me it sounds very "tacked on", not integrated into the music, like it was recorded in a different time zone.

I also think it might sound a bit better with Christine singing the verses, Stevie singing the bridge, and everyone singing the chorus.

[bombaysaffires]

I’m fairly certain that it was written on a guitar (not a piano or anything else) — just the way it moves along, bar to bar, modulates on upbeats and downbeats in a really straightforward way with some syncopation on 2 and 4, “communicates” with the bass, and lays rhythm down for the vocal, etc. That song was written on rhythm guitar, and I don’t think Stevie has ever written an up-tempo guitar song. (Sometimes I think she wrote “Angel” on guitar.)

I think many of the words, too, are Lindseyish, but that’s harder to pin down. Now you tell me that I’m crazy/It’s nothin’ that I didn’t know — Lindsey has written a million other songs with that sort of humor and sarcastic self criticism (I didn’t wanna be this late/So don’t make me wait). Stevie doesn’t write stuff like that. She doesn’t admit to her character flaws with quite so much tongue in cheek. But maybe she wrote this lyric to mimic her man’s hippie/mountain man voice. Maybe that’s part of what the song means: Our relationship is hot and cold so often that we can’t even keep up with it, and I’m starting to sound like you.

To your point, the line "hanging on to you" just doesn't sound Stevie to me at all and never has. And given what we know about their relationship as it fell apart, and each of them saying that the more ambivalent she got about staying with him the harder he hung onto her and the more controlling he became, that line feels very like him at that time and not like her at all.

[HomerMcvie]

Y'all spend way too much time thinking about the dynamic between them, when their relationship ended a half century ago. :woohoo:

[DownOnRodeo]

To your point, the line "hanging on to you" just doesn't sound Stevie to me at all and never has. And given what we know about their relationship as it fell apart, and each of them saying that the more ambivalent she got about staying with him the harder he hung onto her and the more controlling he became, that line feels very like him at that time and not like her at all.

Yes, that line at the end is an inconvnient flaw in my theory... Hoped no-one would zoom in on it. (Sticks fingers in ears.) I don't want to know!

[Macfan4life]

Not only is the vocal subpar, to me it sounds very "tacked on", not integrated into the music, like it was recorded in a different time zone.

I also think it might sound a bit better with Christine singing the verses, Stevie singing the bridge, and everyone singing the chorus.
Now that's funny "recorded in a different time zone" But its funny because I know what you are saying. Paper Doll is ok but IMHO it always just seemed like a rushed recorded song to me. Hurry up, Stevie has a solo career going and just record something and slap it on the greatest hits package.

[bwboy]

It’s interesting to me that people have mentioned Stevie’s vocals, but no one seems to mind the bizarre… I’m not sure what the word is… cartoon-like sound effects prevalent throughout the song that makes me think the video for Paper Doll could feature the Road Runner being chased by Wile E. Coyote.

Beep beep indeed!

[DownOnRodeo]

It’s interesting to me that people have mentioned Stevie’s vocals, but no one seems to mind the bizarre… I’m not sure what the word is… cartoon-like sound effects prevalent throughout the song that makes me think the video for Paper Doll could feature the Road Runner being chased by Wile E. Coyote.

Beep beep indeed!

Now I'm going to be picturing Road Runner whenever I hear Sugar Daddy.

[SteveMacD]

Now I'm going to be picturing Road Runner whenever I hear Sugar Daddy.

Roadrunner and Sugar Daddy are way better songs.

[jbrownsjr]

Roadrunner and Sugar Daddy are way better songs.

Gonna have to agree with you on that one.

[moon]

Better than Paper Doll???
So let me add Forever on the list. Similar atmosphere, similar rythm...
I like Paper Doll! But there's some songs which from other albums which sound similar or even better...
In fact, it's a collaboration between Nicks and Rick. And a good one to give the band a little pause after the BTM tour! And it's a funny and happy song anyway!! :thumbsup: