Any Vegetarian/Vegan Ledgies?

[chriskisn]

Ok lets make a point at the beginning of this thread, I'm asking if anyone is vegetarian on here. If you aren't that is fine, I won't preach to you if you don't preach to me. :)

Anyway, it is now about 14 months since my wife and I stopped eating red meat and chicken, and now we have pretty much cut out the fish as well.

We have done this for ethical reasons, we have rescued pets over the years, helped out at an animal shelter, etc, and one day just decided that we couldn't keep doing that and serving them up for dinner at the same time.

I have to admit that I don't have the same sort of compassion for fish, but my wife has never actually liked seafood anyway, so we have decided to stop eating the fish as well. That should be interesting at Christmas when we go to my parents and Mel's parents for lunch and dinner respectively (hard enough for them to feed us as it is).

So any other Ledgies on here who are vegetarian or vegan?

[holidayroad]

I'm a vegetarian for a lot of reasons. The main one is why eat animals when you don't have to! There are so many other options! I've tried to get my husband to join me in this but I don't think it will ever happen. He did try though!! My son kind of goes back and forth on the issue. (He's 7) I hate that I still have to shop for meat on occasion. I don't even like to look at it or touch it, but I get it for the rest of my family because overall they respect my opinion on it, so I try to respect theirs. Glad to know that you respect animals!

[chriskisn]

I'm a vegetarian for a lot of reasons. The main one is why eat animals when you don't have to! There are so many other options! I've tried to get my husband to join me in this but I don't think it will ever happen. He did try though!! My son kind of goes back and forth on the issue. (He's 7) I hate that I still have to shop for meat on occasion. I don't even like to look at it or touch it, but I get it for the rest of my family because overall they respect my opinion on it, so I try to respect theirs. Glad to know that you respect animals!

My wife and I have said that if we ever have kids we will let them choose whatever they want to do. We won't be cooking up meat for them, but if they want to eat meat when they aren't at home then they can make that decision for themselves.

Just don't have any kids though... :lol:

[chriskisn]

Yep, I've been vegetarian for about 20 years. I gave up eating meat when I was pretty young. I think having a pet brought me to the conclusion I couldn't eat meat anymore and now I really couldn't ever go back. Meat is pretty disgusting really, just to prepare, from the blood to the fat and the bone. I don't tend to preach to people about it but God knows the amount of people that have tried to convince me that being a vegetarian is wrong over the years. I think it makes them feel bad or something and they have to try and justify what they eat by trying to convince me that I'm wrong.

Actually it is funny how many people make out you are missing out on something by not eating meat. I think it was my biggest fear when I started that I would miss meat, and although sometimes I miss some nice crispy bacon it really isn't an issue.

Like you say meat is disgusting...when we give our cats chicken necks (as we don't enforce our vegetarianism on them) my wife can't even stand to handle them and I have do it. She couldn't even bring herself to serve out some cold meats when we held a birthday party for her mother earlier in the year (yep I had to do it again!).

[HejiraNYC]

Include me in the cult. :wavey:

I've been vegetarian for over 21 years, but on the cusp of veganism for the past seven (virtually no dairy). I do make an active effort to be vegan as much as possible... but in the modern non-farm, non-commune world, it's really, really hard to be 100% vegan. Perhaps someday when I am old and have all the time in the world I will be able to cook wonderful vegan dishes... but as of now, I am kind of at the mercy of doing the best with the time I have and what is available. Living in the city offers a few more options, but you would be surprised by the hostility that most restaurants harbor towards veggies. My biggest pet peeve, and I mean BIG, are restaurants that assume that since I don't meat, I don't eat like to eat; so some steamed vegetables thrown on a plate would be considered a meal. That is the height of disrespect to me. Any restaurant that does not put out the same thoughtfulness and care into preparing a veggie dish as a meat dish does not deserve my money.

My reason for going veggie all those years ago was: why not? :shrug: And why is it necessary to eat meat in the first place? It certainly isn't healthy. It's certainly not good for the environment. And most importantly, it's tragically inhumane. I basically became veggie without thinking about it- one day, after realizing that I had not eaten meat for a couple of days unwittingly, I made the conscious decision to see how long I could live without meat. And that was basically it- I never ate meat again and I never really missed it (although I have had dreams about eating meat every once in a while, namely KFC!). The whiners who insist that they could never live without meat have never really tried to do without it. It's amazing how quickly you lose your taste for meat, and for me that's saying a lot since I ate red meat twice a day, every day, as a kid.

[FMlex]

I eat vegetarians and vegans! :laugh:



Just kidding... but yeah, me & meat have been getting along just fine thus far in my life.


"All God's creatures look best next to the mashed potatoes and gravy"

[seekerj]

I don't eat meat and can't understand why anyone would want to.

My cat eats meat, but she has to in order to live. Humans don't. And neither do dogs.

[holidayroad]

My wife and I have said that if we ever have kids we will let them choose whatever they want to do. We won't be cooking up meat for them, but if they want to eat meat when they aren't at home then they can make that decision for themselves.

Just don't have any kids though... :lol:

I agree that's it's best to let the child decide.

[Remy]

Hey, count me in! I'm semi-vegetarian (I eat fish once in a while).

I need to work on my menu, though - my iron has always been low (even back when I used to eat meat).

I'm very happy to see fellow vegetarians on the Ledge! :)

(there are more VegLedgies, i remember we've had a conversation about it before)

[Meowi]

Im not sure if I count, but you could call me a half-vegetarian:thumbsup: I dont really like most meat (chicken, Steaks) but I enjoy a roast. However, I absolutely love vegetarian substitutes, like Lasagne:nod:

I also deeply respect all you Vege/Vegan Ledgies! Keep it up - Id love to join, but I have low iron.

Yum,
Meowi

[Remy]

Id love to join, but I have low iron.


I know the drill (i started going to the dietician): broccoli, brussell sprouts, peanuts, apricots, soy, chickpeas, all types of beans plus lemon or orange juice regularly.

(vitamin C from citruses activates the absorption of non-heme iron in the above vegetables)

now i've got to come up with some way to integrate all of those :)

PS. David's co-blogger, Cassandra, gives great ideas for veg. meals

[HejiraNYC]

I know the drill (i started going to the dietician): broccoli, brussell sprouts, peanuts, apricots, soy, chickpeas, all types of beans plus lemon or orange juice regularly.

(vitamin C from citruses activates the absorption of non-heme iron in the above vegetables)

now i've got to come up with some way to integrate all of those :)

PS. David's co-blogger, Cassandra, gives great ideas for veg. meals

It's hard to believe that people can have low iron these days when everything is so enriched- flour, cereal, rice, bread, etc. If anything, I have to try to avoid consuming too much iron!

[HejiraNYC]

Im not sure if I count, but you could call me a half-vegetarian:thumbsup: I dont really like most meat (chicken, Steaks) but I enjoy a roast. However, I absolutely love vegetarian substitutes, like Lasagne:nod:

I also deeply respect all you Vege/Vegan Ledgies! Keep it up - Id love to join, but I have low iron.

Yum,
Meowi

I believe that makes you a Roastafarian. ;)

[jenniferuk]

We are partially there...we eat fish but I don't prepare meat (chicken, beef, pork, etc) at home and I never eat it. My husband and 1 of the kids will sometimes have meat when dining out, which is fine by me. I don't like the taste of meat and I won't eat anything with bones or blood--just never had a desire to do so. I always refused lamb chops, roast etc as a child--the rareness always put me off. I ate chicken for a long time but really got put off by the stories of antibiotics, hormones, etc.

I had low iron for a long time but it's been fine for the last few years. I'm not sure if I vary my diet more or if it's the fortified foods--probably both. I took a supplement for awhile and hated it-I had a constant hungry feeling.

I let the children make up their own minds and never forced it on them--I explained that Mummy doesn't care for the look/taste/smell of meat and so I don't cook it or eat it. They have had their carnivore phases but for the most part it's short-lived.

[HejiraNYC]

We are partially there...we eat fish but I don't prepare meat (chicken, beef, pork, etc) at home and I never eat it. My husband and 1 of the kids will sometimes have meat when dining out, which is fine by me. I don't like the taste of meat and I won't eat anything with bones or blood--just never had a desire to do so. I always refused lamb chops, roast etc as a child--the rareness always put me off. I ate chicken for a long time but really got put off by the stories of antibiotics, hormones, etc.

I had low iron for a long time but it's been fine for the last few years. I'm not sure if I vary my diet more or if it's the fortified foods--probably both. I took a supplement for awhile and hated it-I had a constant hungry feeling.

I let the children make up their own minds and never forced it on them--I explained that Mummy doesn't care for the look/taste/smell of meat and so I don't cook it or eat it. They have had their carnivore phases but for the most part it's short-lived.

Well, hopefully your kids are not being indoctrinated in school by the meat industry's propaganda aka "four food groups." I know as a kid in elementary school we were taught that meat was a necessary part of our diets; there was no mention of the increased risks for heart disease, obesity, colon cancer, gout, etc. If kids are taught that eating meat is purely optional and that consuming large quantities of meat comes with potential health risks (as well as helping to pollute the environment), I think a lot of kids would go the veggie route.

[thatgirlwasme]

I'll raise my hand as a Veggie Ledgie! I do eat fish--I just can't get enough protein without it. I can only eat so many Boca Burgers!

A

[fleetwoodtrick]

I'm mostly a veg. I have been known to cave for a chicken nugget, though.

But I'm NOTNOTNOTNOTNOTNOTNOT a vegan. I couldn't live without my dairy products!!!

[chriskisn]

I need to work on my menu, though - my iron has always been low (even back when I used to eat meat).



Actually that is the same for my wife, even though we eat all of the right foods. She had low iron as a regular meat-eater, it has dropped a bit as a veggie, and now she takes a liquid iron supplement (suitable for vegetarians) so hopefully her iron levels will start to go back up.

I think it is one of those things that vary between individuals.

[golddustdrummer]

I eat vegetarians and vegans! :laugh:



Just kidding... but yeah, me & meat have been getting along just fine thus far in my life.


"All God's creatures look best next to the mashed potatoes and gravy"

bahahaha I love you Alexa :laugh:

I'm an omnivore too lol
but I totally respect all the vegetarians and vegans...
I couldn't do it if I wanted to.

[jannieC]

I eat dairy (omg cheese) and occasionally fish. I haven't eaten meat (chicken, pork, beef) in over 20 years.

These posts are great and I am nodding while reading. However, it's late and I am eating a fake chicken sandwich for dinner, so I don't have anything to add right now.

Well wait, if you like to cook, check <a href="http://enviromom.com">THIS</A> out. She is doing a weekly (I think?) recipe swap and I have gotten some amazingly easy and great tasting recipes.

[fleetwoodtrick]

I eat dairy (omg cheese) and occasionally fish. I haven't eaten meat (chicken, pork, beef) in over 20 years.

These posts are great and I am nodding while reading. However, it's late and I am eating a fake chicken sandwich for dinner, so I don't have anything to add right now.

Well wait, if you like to cook, check <a href="http://enviromom.com">THIS</A> out. She is doing a weekly (I think?) recipe swap and I have gotten some amazingly easy and great tasting recipes.


Story.of.my.life! But I live in Wisconsin. It'd just be wrong if I didn't love cheese!

[daniellaaarisen]

I eat dairy (omg cheese) and occasionally fish. I haven't eaten meat (chicken, pork, beef) in over 20 years.

These posts are great and I am nodding while reading. However, it's late and I am eating a fake chicken sandwich for dinner, so I don't have anything to add right now.

Well wait, if you like to cook, check <a href="http://enviromom.com">THIS</A> out. She is doing a weekly (I think?) recipe swap and I have gotten some amazingly easy and great tasting recipes.

I'm French. We know and dearly love our cheese. I could eat a baguette and brie for EVERY meal easily. Or goat cheese, anything. I think I love you a little more for that random interjection.

In my family, I would starve if I decided to go vegetarian-- although I've considered it many times, it just isn't practical for me at this point in my life, which kinda sucks. I couldn't care less about eating meat.... but my favorite food in the world is foie gras. I know everything about it is unethical and just bad.... but seriously, I love it.

[David]

I eat dairy (omg cheese) and occasionally fish. I haven't eaten meat (chicken, pork, beef) in over 20 years.Cassandra would be thrilled to hear you're vegetarian. She is staunchly so. She loves creating & collecting veggie recipes too. She published her own cookbook years ago, but that was before she went vegetarian.

I myself love chicken marsala, a hamburger from North Woods Inn, fish & shellfish of all sorts, & steak grilled on the outdoor Weber. Maybe one day they'll invent faux meat that tastes exactly like real meat.

[FMlex]

bahahaha I love you Alexa :laugh:

I'm an omnivore too lol
but I totally respect all the vegetarians and vegans...
I couldn't do it if I wanted to.

Haha thanks! I know I can count on you to laugh with (at) me. :)

[ILoveFM]

I was a veggie for over a year. I started eating meat again because we're kind of struggling financially right now and not eating meat was costing us more money than we had. Once I start college, I'll probably start again because it wasn't very hard for me to stop eating the meat and I felt healthier.

[BellaDonna93]

Vegetarian here!

I have been a vegetarian my whole life, 16 years, because my mother and father already were vegetarians when I was born so they decided that :) I can eat meat if I want, they say, but I absolutley don't want to!! Tho I'm not a real vegetarian, because I eat fish and egg and cheese :)

[GypsySorcerer]

Not a veggiesaurus here, though I only eat chicken and the occasional burger. No steak, seafood, or pork. I have always hated pork. Yuck.

But I'm with the others who love cheese. Goat cheese and brie? Mmmmm.

[chriskisn]

Actually for those that love cheese, while there are certainly ethical issues regarding milk production (that is a discussion for another day), one of the biggest problems with cheese is rennet.

Rennet, of course, is an enzyme that is extracted from the fourth stomach of a slaughtered newly born calf. :eek:

There are numerous non-animal rennet cheeses on the market these days that are identical to cheese produced with animal rennet.

[chriskisn]

I was a veggie for over a year. I started eating meat again because we're kind of struggling financially right now and not eating meat was costing us more money than we had. Once I start college, I'll probably start again because it wasn't very hard for me to stop eating the meat and I felt healthier.

Yes it is definitely more expensive to be a vegetarian, especially if you eat the "fake meat" products.

When we were meat eaters I would only buy meat when it was being reduced in price at the supermarket on a Saturday afternoon (because in backwards Western Australia our main stores don't open on a Sunday) and then freeze it.

That doesn't work as well with vegetables :(

[Musicman408]

Alexa- you are too much!!!! :laugh:

For those of you all who don't eat meat, you all are charting and making sure you're getting all of the essential amino acids, correct???? Wouldn't want any of my Ledgies to be nutrient deprived!

[HejiraNYC]

Alexa- you are too much!!!! :laugh:

For those of you all who don't eat meat, you all are charting and making sure you're getting all of the essential amino acids, correct???? Wouldn't want any of my Ledgies to be nutrient deprived!

That whole urban myth about "complete proteins" vs. "incomplete proteins" has been debunked. Protein is protein. If anything, most people are eating way too much protein in their diets; it's not good for the kidneys.

But thanks for your concern.

[Musicman408]

That whole urban myth about "complete proteins" vs. "incomplete proteins" has been debunked. Protein is protein. If anything, most people are eating way too much protein in their diets; it's not good for the kidneys.

But thanks for your concern.

We just talked about it in my biology class this week, so I was just throwing it out there.

[Musicman408]

Lil' tidbit I found! :)

http://women.webmd.com/guide/nutrition-101-how-to-eat-healthy

Nothing that I saw mentions the fact that these thoughts have been debunked.

[HejiraNYC]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_combining#cite_note-1

There was no basis for [protein combining] that I could see.... I began calling around and talking to people and asking them what the justification was for saying that you had to complement proteins, and there was none. And what I got instead was some interesting insight from people who were knowledgeable and actually felt that there was probably no need to complement proteins. So we went ahead and made that change in the paper. [Note: The paper was approved by peer review and by a delegation vote before becoming official.] And it was a couple of years after that that Vernon Young and Peter Pellet published their paper that became the definitive contemporary guide to protein metabolism in humans. And it also confirmed that complementing proteins at meals was totally unnecessary.

[Musicman408]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_combining#cite_note-1

Thank you for bringing that to my attention.


I think I'll go eat a burger now!:D

[ILoveFM]

Yes it is definitely more expensive to be a vegetarian, especially if you eat the "fake meat" products.

Oh yeah! I use to buy the fake chicken, but I was only allowed one bag because it was around 5 dollars for just a pack. My mom was not having it haha.

[golddustdrummer]

I agree totally. The amount of people here saying "I couldn't live without meat!" supports that I think. We are brought up to think it's essential to our diets and meals are created completely around meat. Aside from the person who cited financial reasons, which I can totally understand, it's completely a choice. I used to love chicken and fish and thought I couldn't live without them, but I have now for 20 years without any problems. There's so many delicious, wonderful things to eat beside meat.

I have to disagree. I don't eat meat because I was told to. I like the taste of meat. Sure, I love animals. I think they should be treated with the upmost respect while they are on this earth for giving their lives for our consumption. but, I can't help it cows, pigs, and chickens taste so good.

[FMlex]

I don't know about you Shawna, but my mama was shoving pork ribs and filet mignons down my throat ten days after I was born!

What's the purpose of cows, pigs and chickens if not to use them for their meat, dairy, eggs, feathers, skins, etc?
To play with them? There's a reason we don't eat dog or cat (well, at least in my neck of the woods :laugh:)

[jannieC]

I think they should be treated with the upmost respect while they are on this earth for giving their lives for our consumption.

Be assured, they are NOT. We take every bit we can from them (skin for clothing, flesh for food) and treat them as inhumanely as possible. And the animals know it. So, keep in mind when you're eating that burger that you are ingesting the fear hormones that cow released as she was being slaughtered. (<a href="http://www.scn.org/~bk269/fear.html">One study here</a>)

Did you know that a pig has roughly the same (or higher) intelligence level as a three year old human and that mother pigs sing to their piglets when they're nursing?

Truthfully, it matters none to me what other people eat. Just as it shouldn't matter to anyone what I eat or why I choose to eat the way I do.

[jannieC]

I don't know about you Shawna, but my mama was shoving pork ribs and filet mignons down my throat ten days after I was born!

What's the purpose of cows, pigs and chickens if not to use them for their meat, dairy, eggs, feathers, skins, etc?
To play with them? There's a reason we don't eat dog or cat (well, at least in my neck of the woods :laugh:)

Why do they need a defined purpose?

[FMlex]

Well, you're assuming the main purpose of animals on this Earth is for humans to use. It's all down to your perspective I guess.

True that!

[FMlex]

Why do they need a defined purpose?

Every living, breathing thing has a purpose in life, or at least I would hope so!

[jannieC]

Every living, breathing thing has a purpose in life, or at least I would hope so!

But you're saying that because you can't think of any other purpose, an animal's sole purpose is for human consumption.

[jannieC]

Jannie, I agree. I rarely talk about this stuff with people I know. In fact they are often surprised if we ever go out for a meal etc. Usually it's a bigger issue for them than it is for me.

Right. The people in my life are supportive and not worried about what I am eating. I noticed it more several years ago. The best was when I used to smoke, people would say, "but you're a vegetarian!" :shocked: Not sure how the two are related. :)

[FMlex]

But you're saying that because you can't think of any other purpose, an animal's sole purpose is for human consumption.

Well I do think that cows, pigs and chickens are here for our consumption, yes.
Like Shawna said, they should get the respect and care they deserve while they're here.

In the case of household animals, such as dogs or cats, I believe they're here to be our companions for as long as they live (or we live -- by the way, Old Yeller should be required viewing for any young kid who owns a dog). So we don't eat them. (At least in this part of the world.)

[FMlex]

Right. The people in my life are supportive and not worried about what I am eating. I noticed it more several years ago. The best was when I used to smoke, people would say, "but you're a vegetarian!" :shocked: Not sure how the two are related. :)

:laugh: That's funny! Not sure how those two are connected either.

[jannieC]

Well I do think that cows, pigs and chickens are here for our consumption, yes.
Like Shawna said, they should get the respect and care they deserve while they're here.



But they're not, and most people eat them anyway, in spite of this knowledge.

(I'm not trying to be argumentaztive, but this is a point that often gets lost(.)

[FMlex]

But they're not, and most people eat them anyway, in spite of this knowledge.

(I'm not trying to be argumentaztive, but this is a point that often gets lost(.)

To each his own!

[trackaghost]

I don't know about you Shawna, but my mama was shoving pork ribs and filet mignons down my throat ten days after I was born!


So you're saying that your parents didn't feed you meat when you were a kid? Most babies start eating meat from around seven months, starting with chicken.
I grew up in a house where a lot of meat was eaten. I didn't have a choice when I was a kid because it was assumed eating meat was a healthy part of your diet and dinner always had meat at its centre. When I decided to stop my mum was actually really worried about it, as were other people and that continues to this day. That's all I was saying. I'm not attacking anyone because they choose to eat meat.



In the case of household animals, such as dogs or cats, I believe they're here to be our companions for as long as they live (or we live -- by the way, Old Yeller should be required viewing for any young kid who owns a dog). So we don't eat them. (At least in this part of the world.)

Well, even as your post suggests, it sounds to me as if it's an entirely cultural thing don't you think?


Right. The people in my life are supportive and not worried about what I am eating. I noticed it more several years ago. The best was when I used to smoke, people would say, "but you're a vegetarian!" :shocked: Not sure how the two are related. :)

I always get stuff like that. I don't understand at all why smoking is related, I guess they must think it's entirely a health thing to give up meat, but for me it's a variety of different reasons.

[golddustdrummer]

But they're not, and most people eat them anyway, in spite of this knowledge.

(I'm not trying to be argumentaztive, but this is a point that often gets lost(.)

I can't help that some of the farms/slaughter houses don't treat them right.
I know that when I lived on a cow farm, we treated them like Kings and Queens.
abusing animals isn't right. I don't eat veil, I don't eat foie gras, I try to get free-range beef.

I'm not going to stop eating meat, but I try to make the best choices that I can.


and once again: I totally respect everyone's individual dining choices. Don't give me crap about meat and I won't hassle you about being a vegan/vegetarian. To each his/her own.

[HejiraNYC]

I can't help that some of the farms/slaughter houses don't treat them right.

Of course you can! You're supporting industrial farming techniques with your money! If enough people take a stand and decide that enough is enough, farmers will adopt alternatives.


I know that when I lived on a cow farm, we treated them like Kings and Queens.
abusing animals isn't right. I don't eat veil, I don't eat foie gras, I try to get free-range beef.

I'm not going to stop eating meat, but I try to make the best choices that I can.

I really don't get this kind of veiled atonement / guilt-purging that meat-eaters make by eating only free-range this or that. At the end of the day, they still get rounded up and slaughtered in the same fashion. So does it actually make people feel better that animals were able to run around in their pens before they were slaughtered? And given the bulging human population of the earth and the relatively finite amount of arable land, free-range farming is not sustainable. Free-range animal farming on the scale needed to feed the entire planet is just not feasible or would be prohibitively expensive. So at the end of the day, all of this free-range stuff just seems to me like a spendy way for yuppies to assuage their guilt at Whole Foods.


and once again: I totally respect everyone's individual dining choices. Don't give me crap about meat and I won't hassle you about being a vegan/vegetarian. To each his/her own.

I don't think anyone is giving you crap/hassle about eating meat. I think the general sentiment from the veggies on here is that: animals were not made for eating and that eating meat is an option that is purely up to the individual. You have the right to eat the way you want, and the rest of us have the right to our opinions about it and vice-versa. :cool:

[louielouie2000]

My next door neighbor is vegan, and ever since meeting her a couple of years ago I've thought about doing it myself. That girl eats better than anybody I know! Her food is so hearty, delicious, flavorful, and filling. The only reason I haven't really done it is it's such a new approach to everything: a totally new approach to shopping, a new way to prepare and cook food; it'd be a complex conversion for me. I'm just now getting the hang of how to cook traditionally, and I'm 27! :laugh: Add to the fact my other half thoroughly loves meat (especially chicken), and it'd be hard for me to go at it alone. I keep thinking about it though. I've already taken some of her ideas and used them for myself... marinating and sauteing mushrooms in red wine vinegar, roasting cauliflower with fresh lemon juice, etc. I know how much better Jessica says she feels because of the way she eats, and I absolutely believe her. I should just try it for a couple weeks and see what happens. :)

[David]

Well I do think that cows, pigs and chickens are here for our consumption, yes.Some Koreans think that dogs are here for their consumption. Religious Jews & Muslims do not think that pigs are here for their consumption. Religious Hindus do not think that cows are here for their consumption. I do not think snakes are here for my consumption. I wouldn't eat a snake for anything.

Some people eat the plastic cases on DVDs. They say it tastes like chicken. :shrug:

[Musicman408]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_chain


It is GREAT how we are able to have this debate! :nod:

[camchristo]

^What are you actually debating?


Anyway, I don't eat mammals. I mostly eat veggies and meat alternatives or soy-based products. However, I do eat fish and on occasion I chicken and turkey.

I have not eaten red meat or pork for about 15 years and I don't miss it. I don't ever have a craving for a steak or a burger.

I could definitely cut chicken and turkey out of my diet and not miss it but I don't think I will ever cut fish/seafood out completely. I would not become vegan because I do love cheese.

My reasons for not eating mammals are a multi-faceted. First, I think the health benefits are remarkable. Second, I don't like it. I grew up having meat, potatoes and veggies for dinner every night and I never really liked the meat portion of dinner. When I got old enough to choose for myself, I did. Third, humane reasons come into play. Even though I do eat chicken on occasion, I don't eat KFC because I've heard they are the worst offenders regarding cruelty. I don't eat duck and I would never eat foie gras.

That being said, I would not refuse to dine with someone eating steak or veal - everyone needs to decide for themselves. I don't preach to people about what they eat and I don't generally have people question me. They might ask why but once I answer, they are usually respectful.

[jannieC]

I don't know why it's a debate. I also don't know why someone who eats meat would come to a Any Vegetarian/Vegan Ledgies thread, other than either curiosity or the desire to defend a diet choice (which doesn't HAVE to be debated).

I'd also like to add that you are fooling yourself if you think that your current hamburger was treated like a King or a Queen before it was slaughtered, unless you raised it yourself.

[golddustdrummer]

Of course you can! You're supporting industrial farming techniques with your money! If enough people take a stand and decide that enough is enough, farmers will adopt alternatives.

I really don't get this kind of veiled atonement / guilt-purging that meat-eaters make by eating only free-range this or that. At the end of the day, they still get rounded up and slaughtered in the same fashion. So does it actually make people feel better that animals were able to run around in their pens before they were slaughtered? And given the bulging human population of the earth and the relatively finite amount of arable land, free-range farming is not sustainable. Free-range animal farming on the scale needed to feed the entire planet is just not feasible or would be prohibitively expensive. So at the end of the day, all of this free-range stuff just seems to me like a spendy way for yuppies to assuage their guilt at Whole Foods.

I don't think anyone is giving you crap/hassle about eating meat. I think the general sentiment from the veggies on here is that: animals were not made for eating and that eating meat is an option that is purely up to the individual. You have the right to eat the way you want, and the rest of us have the right to our opinions about it and vice-versa. :cool:

there will NEVER be enough people turning vegan/vegetarian to make the farmer's adopt alternatives. and they are trying to make a living, just like you and me. If you've actually lived the situation and tried to do it for a job to raise and feed your children, you can't make generalizations.

I'm not a yuppie. I don't feel guilty about eating meat. and I wasn't saying anyone was giving me crap, yet trying to get across the fact that I don't care what other people eat. Its a free country and that you (or any other vegan/vegetarian) gets nothing but my respect for your choices as long as you give me the same. There is no argument or debate about anything. Just people posting opinions, on a messageboard. ;)

but I'll gladly leave this thread alone.
it should have said "no meat eaters allowed"


and yes, JannieC growing up we raised our own meat for burgers.
they were treated well while they were here.
as for nowadays, I can't say for sure.
neither can anyone else unless you've worked in every meat processing plant on Earth.

[chriskisn]

Yep you see it always turns into a debate between vegetarians and meat eaters. Why do the meat eaters feel the need to come in here and add their 2c worth? I asked if there were any other vegetarian ledgies...simple question, a few people answered yes, a disussion could then have occured between those of us who are vegetarian and perhaps those who are interested in becoming vegetarian.

If you aren't, then this thread isn't about you. Great, so you eat meat, how nice for you. Go and start a "Any meat eating Ledgies" thread.

If this thread was called "Animal Murderers" or something then sure, come in and defend your position, otherwise please lets not have the debate...it hasn't be resolved outside of this forum it isn't likely to get resolved in here either...

[daniellaaarisen]

I'm not a vegetarian, but I've considered it.... so if I say anything obnoxious on here as a meat-eating poster, let me know and I'll shut up.

But really, I'm curious because this thread has gotten me thinking about trying this. I'm just petrified that I would let my carb addiction run wild. :distress: This is a serious concern, haha.

I don't eat a lot of meat as it is (only a few times a week) but I'm curious: what is a typical meal for you guys?

[golddustdrummer]

Yep you see it always turns into a debate between vegetarians and meat eaters. Why do the meat eaters feel the need to come in here and add their 2c worth? I asked if there were any other vegetarian ledgies...simple question, a few people answered yes, a disussion could then have occured between those of us who are vegetarian and perhaps those who are interested in becoming vegetarian.

If you aren't, then this thread isn't about you. Great, so you eat meat, how nice for you. Go and start a "Any meat eating Ledgies" thread.

If this thread was called "Animal Murderers" or something then sure, come in and defend your position, otherwise please lets not have the debate...it hasn't be resolved outside of this forum it isn't likely to get resolved in here either...

I take it back. I have one more thing to say.
There shouldn't be segregation and separation in this forum.
you can't expect to start a thread then try to regulate who responds.

it seems like these days, you can't have a conversation on here without someone getting defensive and starting an argument or debate. There is nothing to debate, I'm not saying one lifestyle is better than the other. Although a few veggie Ledgies have....

what if I started a "any Catholic Ledgies thread" and then tried to say people of other religions couldn't post or give opinions?
not very nice, is it?
I've stayed nice, and will continue to do so. I apologize for intruding on "your" vegetarian thread. It won't happen again.

[GypsySorcerer]

I'm not a vegetarian, but I've considered it.... so if I say anything obnoxious on here as a meat-eating poster, let me know and I'll shut up.

But really, I'm curious because this thread has gotten me thinking about trying this. I'm just petrified that I would let my carb addiction run wild. :distress: This is a serious concern, haha.

I don't eat a lot of meat as it is (only a few times a week) but I'm curious: what is a typical meal for you guys?

I don't eat a lot of meat, either -- mostly just chicken. But I'm like you in that I'm afraid I would binge on carbs if went vegetarian. That's not really an excuse, though. I should just do it.

[jenniferuk]

I don't eat a lot of meat as it is (only a few times a week) but I'm curious: what is a typical meal for you guys?

Some of our usuals/favourites: veggie lasagna, butternut squash risotto, lentil soup, chilli (with Morningstar crumbles), veggie sausages (bangers and mash), black bean quesadilla, pasta. We have fish 1-2 times a week, depending on season. Now that it's cold outside we'll have a lot of soups, stews, etc.

For sandwiches I like cheese and tomato or maybe a falafel pita.

We eat dairy and have eggs once a week or so--usually a frittata or such.

Cheese. Yum.

[jannieC]

Some of our usuals/favourites: veggie lasagna, butternut squash risotto, lentil soup, chilli (with Morningstar crumbles), veggie sausages (bangers and mash), black bean quesadilla, pasta. We have fish 1-2 times a week, depending on season. Now that it's cold outside we'll have a lot of soups, stews, etc.

For sandwiches I like cheese and tomato or maybe a falafel pita.

We eat dairy and have eggs once a week or so--usually a frittata or such.

Cheese. Yum.

We eat a lot of pasta, rice, beans, and yes I am a carb addict too, Dani. But animal fat is SO fattening and since it's not part of my diet I can maintain my weight and eat my carbs.

[jannieC]

I take it back. I have one more thing to say.
There shouldn't be segregation and separation in this forum.
you can't expect to start a thread then try to regulate who responds.

it seems like these days, you can't have a conversation on here without someone getting defensive and starting an argument or debate. There is nothing to debate, I'm not saying one lifestyle is better than the other. Although a few veggie Ledgies have....

what if I started a "any Catholic Ledgies thread" and then tried to say people of other religions couldn't post or give opinions?
not very nice, is it?
I've stayed nice, and will continue to do so. I apologize for intruding on "your" vegetarian thread. It won't happen again.

I don't really mind the debate, but I have found over the years, that it's kind of a losing battle on both ends. I'm not going to convince you to stop eating meat and you're not going to convince me that I should eat it. No biggie!

What bugs me is when people KNOW what animals go through to get on our plates (or our feet, in our cars, and so on) and still make excuses for it (and argue about it!). I will never eat meat, but for those who do I wish that you would care more about the animals you are consuming. The treatment of animals is horrible. HORRIBLE. And as I said earlier, unless you live on your own farm, you can't be sure what's going on behind the scene.

I have often said that if everyone would give up eating meat just one day a week (in protest) perhaps it would hurt the cattle industry enough to make some changes. <a href="http://www.goveg.com/factoryFarming.asp">This</a> is what's happening, more often than not. It is the norm.

All this being said, it's not my job to change the world (though I try in my own little way on a daily basis ;) ). I won't *start* an argument about this, but I will defend my position. And as long as we're all respectful to one another, I see no problem with it.

[daniellaaarisen]

Some of our usuals/favourites: veggie lasagna, butternut squash risotto, lentil soup, chilli (with Morningstar crumbles), veggie sausages (bangers and mash), black bean quesadilla, pasta. We have fish 1-2 times a week, depending on season. Now that it's cold outside we'll have a lot of soups, stews, etc.

For sandwiches I like cheese and tomato or maybe a falafel pita.

We eat dairy and have eggs once a week or so--usually a frittata or such.

Cheese. Yum.

You officially have me sold. I'm eating a falafel sandwich as we speak. We have this awesome drive-in on San Jose's "vintage row"-- it is basically a street with a bunch of tacky thrift stores and old light up signs.

http://photos-sf2p.fbcdn.net/v329/52/81/1047240493/n1047240493_30464469_8369.jpg

Yum.

Okay, Jannie, you're making me feel better about this entire thing in regards to the massive amounts of carbs I would undoubtedly eat.... Hmmm.

[jannieC]

You officially have me sold. I'm eating a falafel sandwich as we speak. We have this awesome drive-in on San Jose's "vintage row"-- it is basically a street with a bunch of tacky thrift stores and old light up signs.

http://photos-sf2p.fbcdn.net/v329/52/81/1047240493/n1047240493_30464469_8369.jpg

Yum.

Okay, Jannie, you're making me feel better about this entire thing in regards to the massive amounts of carbs I would undoubtedly eat.... Hmmm.

Your breath will be lethal but falafel is soooo good. :)

[thatgirlwasme]

I'm not a vegetarian, but I've considered it.... so if I say anything obnoxious on here as a meat-eating poster, let me know and I'll shut up.

But really, I'm curious because this thread has gotten me thinking about trying this. I'm just petrified that I would let my carb addiction run wild. :distress: This is a serious concern, haha.

I don't eat a lot of meat as it is (only a few times a week) but I'm curious: what is a typical meal for you guys?

If you're serious, be sure you make the change gradually. The key is to try to get well-balanced meals and always try for some kind of protein to go with your carbs. Try switching to more complex carbs like whole grains, brown rice, etc. That way you will get more protein and fiber with your carbs.

It's really not that hard--I also eat a lot of beans, veggie substitute products, eggs, dairy, and veggies and fruit of course! I think there is this misconception from some people that you have to eat tofu all the time.

A

[vivfox]

Is it possible to be Vegan and be overweight?

[David]

Some people who eat a lot of carbs have really smelly ga . . . I mean, they have really . . . I mean . . . they stink!

But see my blog for a meatless "meatloaf" recipe that's out of this world: http://claverandconverse.blogspot.com

[chriskisn]

I take it back. I have one more thing to say.
There shouldn't be segregation and separation in this forum.
you can't expect to start a thread then try to regulate who responds.

it seems like these days, you can't have a conversation on here without someone getting defensive and starting an argument or debate. There is nothing to debate, I'm not saying one lifestyle is better than the other. Although a few veggie Ledgies have....

what if I started a "any Catholic Ledgies thread" and then tried to say people of other religions couldn't post or give opinions?
not very nice, is it?
I've stayed nice, and will continue to do so. I apologize for intruding on "your" vegetarian thread. It won't happen again.

But if I start a thread saying "hey anyone like horse racing", should someone come along and tell me how much better NASCAR is? Plus, if you started the Catholic ledgies thread, then would it be polite and respectful if the atheists like me came in and criticised your religious beliefs?

Anyway, my comment was in no way aimed specifically at you Shawna...

The one thing that annoys me about those who aren't vegetarians is that when a vegetarian says "I don't eat meat" or "I'm a vegetarian", the first thing most people respond with is "I couldn't do that," or "I like meat too much", or "We are meant to eat meat", etc. I never asked the meat eater to become vegetarian. Those that preach their vegetarianism are no better. Discuss yes, argue, preach and criticise no.

Once again, I wasn't aiming this at you or anyone in particular, it just annoys me how quickly this topic always develops into an arguement over who is right.

[LukeA]

I'm FAR from vegetarian/vegan, but I love going to gourmet vegan restaurants. Some of the most delicious meals I've ever had in my life were completely vegan. Its gotten to the point that I've started to make a habit of seeking out vegan restaurants in other cities (Portland has a ton)- Millennium in SF is awesome, as is Green Zebra in Chicago. Had a delicious slice of vegan pizza at a great new vegan pizzeria in my favorite Boston neighborhood of Allston just yesterday, in fact.

If I have a healthy, tasty alternative to meat, I'll always consider choosing it.

[David]

Had a delicious slice of vegan pizza at a great new vegan pizzeria in my favorite Boston neighborhood of Allston just yesterday, in fact.
You did not, you liar!

[LukeA]

You did not, you liar!

Oh, its true. The wonders of air travel.

Speaking of traveling, Hayley & I had drinks when I was in Chicago 3 weeks ago. I brought her up to date on all your shenanigans. She says hi :wavey:

[LukeA]

I miss Hayley. I was sad when she stopped posting.

She's doing fine. She's just busy.

[DavidMn]

I am someone who loves a good steak but I would never look down on someone who chooses either the Veg or Vegan route. I have actually started eating less meat as part of my new diet (lost 25 pounds) but I still enjoy it.

[Stew_Matthews]

The one thing that annoys me about those who aren't vegetarians is that when a vegetarian says "I don't eat meat" or "I'm a vegetarian", the first thing most people respond with is "I couldn't do that," or "I like meat too much", or "We are meant to eat meat", etc. I never asked the meat eater to become vegetarian. Those that preach their vegetarianism are no better. Discuss yes, argue, preach and criticise no.


An interesting aspect of this thread, for me, is the number of vegetarians/vegans who post who have no children. Aside from my own food preferences, it is difficult to get the right vitamins, nutrients and fuel into my 1 year old without fish or meat. She only eats fish but I can't abandon that. I saw Jannie C posting so maybe she has discovered a better diet than me. Yes I prefer an organic and mainly vegetarian diet but until kids get into their teens, I don't think it is appropriate that they are entirely vegetarian.

[jannieC]

An interesting aspect of this thread, for me, is the number of vegetarians/vegans who post who have no children. Aside from my own food preferences, it is difficult to get the right vitamins, nutrients and fuel into my 1 year old without fish or meat. She only eats fish but I can't abandon that. I saw Jannie C posting so maybe she has discovered a better diet than me. Yes I prefer an organic and mainly vegetarian diet but until kids get into their teens, I don't think it is appropriate that they are entirely vegetarian.

I eat fish, so Laney does too. My mother in law makes salmon patties that she adores. Our pediatrician fully supports our decision to go this route (even before we told him she would be eating fish) and he is an older doctor that has been around for many years. I trust him completely. He actually thinks it's healthier to raise a child this way.

Her appetite SUCKS lately. At 14 months, I'm lucky if I can't get anything other than fruit into her. Laney is a Frutitarian. :) I try not to stress over it too much though- I try to stay mellow and just re-introduce food to her from time to time.

[jenniferuk]

We eat fish and dairy and fish cakes are a favourite around here, too. All of my children go through 'picky' phases--last week the 3 yr old said no to nearly everything aside from yogurt and blueberries and today it's no to those and 'yes please mummy' to carrots, dried cereal, and 'things to dip in salsa'. Our ped assures me that this is normal--they are all healthy and don't seem to be lacking nutrionally.

I try to be patient and I'm pleased that when they are picky or fixated on a food it's something healthy (a fruit, veg, etc) because that is pretty much all they know. I have meat eating friends with a toddler who will eat only chicken nuggets and hotdogs...my worst nightmare as I am sure my food world is to them!

[jenniferuk]

But see my blog for a meatless "meatloaf" recipe that's out of this world: http://claverandconverse.blogspot.com

Thanks for that--recipe printed and meatloaf added to next weeks menu.

[David]

She's doing fine. She's just busy.Glad to hear she's doing well. I want her to e-mail me but she never does because she thinks I'm assholish.

[Stew_Matthews]

I eat fish, so Laney does too. My mother in law makes salmon patties that she adores. Our pediatrician fully supports our decision to go this route (even before we told him she would be eating fish) and he is an older doctor that has been around for many years. I trust him completely. He actually thinks it's healthier to raise a child this way.

Her appetite SUCKS lately. At 14 months, I'm lucky if I can't get anything other than fruit into her. Laney is a Frutitarian. :) I try not to stress over it too much though- I try to stay mellow and just re-introduce food to her from time to time.

We eat fish and dairy and fish cakes are a favourite around here, too. All of my children go through 'picky' phases--last week the 3 yr old said no to nearly everything aside from yogurt and blueberries and today it's no to those and 'yes please mummy' to carrots, dried cereal, and 'things to dip in salsa'. Our ped assures me that this is normal--they are all healthy and don't seem to be lacking nutrionally.

I try to be patient and I'm pleased that when they are picky or fixated on a food it's something healthy (a fruit, veg, etc) because that is pretty much all they know. I have meat eating friends with a toddler who will eat only chicken nuggets and hotdogs...my worst nightmare as I am sure my food world is to them!



Thanks for these :)- my kids eat fish and never have red meat & poultry. I guess I have misunderstood the definition of a vegetarian used here. I thought vegetarians ate plant based foods and dairy/eggs but didn't eat meat and fish. It was the stricter definition (without fish) that I have some reservations with when it comes to children's diets.

[HejiraNYC]

Thanks for these :)- my kids eat fish and never have red meat & poultry. I guess I have misunderstood the definition of a vegetarian used here. I thought vegetarians ate plant based foods and dairy/eggs but didn't eat meat and fish. It was the stricter definition (without fish) that I have some reservations with when it comes to children's diets.

I tend to think fish eaters are pescetarians rather than vegetarians.

So what are your reservations when it comes to children's diets? :shrug:

[jannieC]

I don't call myself a vegetarian anymore since I starting eating fish. I used to be hardcore but have relaxed quite a bit. I just say I don't eat meat (if anyone asks).

Almost every food contains protein: nuts, seeds, beans, soy products (tofu, soy milk, tempeh), grains (wheat, oats, rice), eggs, and dairy products all being excellent vegetarian sources. My family physician told me once that protein deficiencies are very rare. I don't think there's anything wrong raising a child on a no-meat or fish diet. But of course, to each his own. :)

[daniellaaarisen]

I haven't eaten meat for 2 days (which isn't rare for me, but I'm going to go for an extended period of time and see how this goes). I told my mom that I was planning on trying a no-meat diet and she flipped out on me, telling me that I will be severely malnourished and die by age 50. :lol:

I told her that a) she was wrong and b) I was gonna try it anyway. Ha.

[HejiraNYC]

I haven't eaten meat for 2 days (which isn't rare for me, but I'm going to go for an extended period of time and see how this goes). I told my mom that I was planning on trying a no-meat diet and she flipped out on me, telling me that I will be severely malnourished and die by age 50. :lol:

I told her that a) she was wrong and b) I was gonna try it anyway. Ha.

More power to ya, kiddo! :xoxo: Let us know how it's going... To be honest, I totally forgot how I felt at the earliest stages. All I know is that I was eating a lot of junk, lost a bit of weight, but then gained it back once I figured out how to make it work. It may take some trial and error, but you'll get there. :angel:

[Meowi]

I haven't eaten meat for 2 days (which isn't rare for me, but I'm going to go for an extended period of time and see how this goes). I told my mom that I was planning on trying a no-meat diet and she flipped out on me, telling me that I will be severely malnourished and die by age 50. :lol:

I told her that a) she was wrong and b) I was gonna try it anyway. Ha.

she was only looking out for you :p! Anyway good luck!

[bucklind17]

Is it possible to be Vegan and be overweight?

My roommate for a time was vegan and she was morbidly obese. I'm not sure how tied in the two were, there were definitely some issues with food in general but there's plenty of vegan-friendly foods that are high in fat and calories. There's a vegan bakery in the Village that is to die for. My roommate often ate things like deep fried tofu or vegan nachos (essentially tortilla chips with soy-based cheese and sour cream, refried beans, etc.). I rarely saw her eating vegetables or fruit on their own, or without a sauce. So I would say yes. Just because a person is vegan or vegetarian doesn't necessarily mean they are maintaining a healthy enough diet to assure they wouldn't be overweight.

[desertangel]

I went vegan for two or three years. It was pretty good at first, but then became harder and harder for me to get the protein in without taking a supplement, which I didn't want to do. My lack of creativity and motivation caused me to get stuck in a rut with the protein part of it... eating the same rice, tofu and beans over and over until it started creating digestion problems. Eventually had to visit the doctor. He ran a blood test and said there was so little protein in my blood that he thought I was close to liver failure. I lost hope and became a quitter. At the risk of sounding hypocritical - if you're new at it, make sure you get enough protein and variety. There are charts on the internet that will tell you how many grams you need for your size. Protein is important for proper liver function and the liver is a major organ, which means if you don't take good care of it, it won't take good care of you.


To those who have been doing it successfully for years... ROCK ON!!! :wavey:

[LiamMcConville]

Well I do think that cows, pigs and chickens are here for our consumption, yes.
Like Shawna said, they should get the respect and care they deserve while they're here.

In the case of household animals, such as dogs or cats, I believe they're here to be our companions for as long as they live (or we live -- by the way, Old Yeller should be required viewing for any young kid who owns a dog). So we don't eat them. (At least in this part of the world.)

Are you seriously posting this? Are you being underhandedly funny?


How can you possibly logically connect that some animals were placed on this earth for companionship and some for food? That's completely similar to thinking some people were placed on this earth to prosper, and others were put on this earth to be slaves.

:shrug:

DUMB.

[FMlex]

Are you seriously posting this? Are you being underhandedly funny?


How can you possibly logically connect that some animals were placed on this earth for companionship and some for food? That's completely similar to thinking some people were placed on this earth to prosper, and others were put on this earth to be slaves.

:shrug:

DUMB.

Looks like I did post that. Hm.

Thanks for the compliment!

[jannieC]

Direct quote from Sarah Palin’s new book:
“If any vegans came over for dinner, I could whip them up a salad, then explain my philosophy on being a carnivore: If God had not intended for us to eat animals, how come He made them out of meat?”

So original. :rolleyes: (and really I'm just rolling my eyes without smiling)

[golddustdrummer]

Looks like I did post that. Hm.

Thanks for the compliment!



All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.
George Orwell, "Animal Farm"
English essayist, novelist, & satirist (1903 - 1950)

[golddustdrummer]

Have you read Animal Farm?


yes, but I wasn't trying to make a point for either side.
I just like that quote and the book.

[vivfox]

LiamMcConville
Addicted Ledgie Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,080



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMlex
Well I do think that cows, pigs and chickens are here for our consumption, yes.
Like Shawna said, they should get the respect and care they deserve while they're here.

In the case of household animals, such as dogs or cats, I believe they're here to be our companions for as long as they live (or we live -- by the way, Old Yeller should be required viewing for any young kid who owns a dog). So we don't eat them. (At least in this part of the world.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LiamMcConville
Addicted Ledgie Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,080

Are you seriously posting this? Are you being underhandedly funny?


How can you possibly logically connect that some animals were placed on this earth for companionship and some for food? That's completely similar to thinking some people were placed on this earth to prosper, and others were put on this earth to be slaves.

DUMB.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

She's not dumb Liam, for sharing her opinion. It clearly says in the Old Testament in the Bible which types of animals and which types of sea creatures were put on this earth to feed humans.

[Musicman408]

LiamMcConville
Addicted Ledgie Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,080



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMlex
Well I do think that cows, pigs and chickens are here for our consumption, yes.
Like Shawna said, they should get the respect and care they deserve while they're here.

In the case of household animals, such as dogs or cats, I believe they're here to be our companions for as long as they live (or we live -- by the way, Old Yeller should be required viewing for any young kid who owns a dog). So we don't eat them. (At least in this part of the world.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LiamMcConville
Addicted Ledgie Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,080

Are you seriously posting this? Are you being underhandedly funny?


How can you possibly logically connect that some animals were placed on this earth for companionship and some for food? That's completely similar to thinking some people were placed on this earth to prosper, and others were put on this earth to be slaves.

DUMB.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

She's not dumb Liam, for sharing her opinion. It clearly says in the Old Testament in the Bible which types of animals and which types of sea creatures were put on this earth to feed humans.

Amen!!

If everyone had the same opinion, things would be hella boring. So let's not call someone dumb when their opinion differs from yours! THAT is being dumb, and just flat out intolerance!!!

[LikeAWillow]

So let's not call someone dumb when their opinion differs from yours!

Some opinions are more equal than others.

[daniellaaarisen]

I'm getting to the point that Sarah Palin is just flat out entertaining. The disillusioned stage has worn off for me.

[David]

Direct quote from Sarah Palin’s new book:
“If any vegans came over for dinner, I could whip them up a salad, then explain my philosophy on being a carnivore: If God had not intended for us to eat animals, how come He made them out of meat?”I like Sarah Palin's politics & her love of liberty & her rugged individualism, but I have to admit that I don't think she has a high IQ. I think she has a pretty low IQ. She seems incapable or at least uninclined to draw rational conclusions in the abstract from specific premises. Abstracting reasonably from specifics is the surest sign of elevated IQ. Just consider my own humble case.

[LiamMcConville]

LiamMcConville


She's not dumb Liam, for sharing her opinion. It clearly says in the Old Testament in the Bible which types of animals and which types of sea creatures were put on this earth to feed humans.

If that's the case, I surely hope she hasn't eaten any shellfish or she'll soon be basking in the fiery depths of hell. :shrug: (Leviticus 11:9-12)

The Bible also says that homosexuality is wrong. If she were to agree with that, would you still argue her intelligence?

Amen!!

If everyone had the same opinion, things would be hella boring. So let's not call someone dumb when their opinion differs from yours! THAT is being dumb, and just flat out intolerance!!!

I'm intolerant to ignorance, Ethan. Considering you have contributed not a single thought of substance to this conversation, I find it quite ironic that you're choosing to call me out.

Some opinions are more equal than others.

[FMlex]

If that's the case, I surely hope she hasn't eaten any shellfish or she'll soon be basking in the fiery depths of hell. :shrug: (Leviticus 11:9-12)

The Bible also says that homosexuality is wrong. If she were to agree with that, would you still argue her intelligence?


Umm... hello, guys. I'm right here.

No need for personal attacks on people, Liam.

This is a forum where we all share our own perspectives and beliefs with each other.
We aren't all going to agree on every issue, but we can agree to disagree. :)

[LiamMcConville]

Umm... hello, guys. I'm right here.

No need for personal attacks on people, Liam.

This is a forum where we all share our own perspectives and beliefs with each other.
We aren't all going to agree on every issue, but we can agree to disagree. :)

Personal attacks? I called you dumb. :distress:

I'm not interested in agreeing to disagree with you, I'm honestly interested in you replying to the points I made in my previous posts. :shrug:

[carrie721]

I like Sarah Palin's politics & her love of liberty & her rugged individualism, but I have to admit that I don't think she has a high IQ. I think she has a pretty low IQ. She seems incapable or at least uninclined to draw rational conclusions in the abstract from specific premises. Abstracting reasonably from specifics is the surest sign of elevated IQ. Just consider my own humble case.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[FMlex]

Personal attacks? I called you dumb. :distress:

I'm not interested in agreeing to disagree with you, I'm honestly interested in you replying to the points I made in my previous posts. :shrug:

You can't always get what you want.

[cristochango]

I'm getting to the point that Sarah Palin is just flat out entertaining. The disillusioned stage has worn off for me.

Hey Dani, I dig Sarah.
Yeah my political views are influenced by her looks.
...but I'm 16. Thats okay :p

[Angel69]

I have not consumed meat, fish or chicken since 1993. As a child the only meats I would eat were hamburgers and hot dogs. I remember my parents trying to bribe me into eating more meat but I wanted no part of it. Around 1970 they told the family Dr. about the situation who told them that Iwould be no less healthy than them. Of course at this point Iwas still eating eggs and cheese. I have completely cut out milk, eggs and other dairy product since 1997. However at times I succumb to the occasional slice of pizza. I dont know if I am healthier than your average meat eater, though my cholesterol and blood pressure has been great for years. No more zits, better hair/skin. I choose not to consume animals because of ethical reasons which have been discussed. A book that changed my life back in 1993 was "Diet For A New America" by John Robbins of Baskin Robbins fame.

Today for example I made vegan mashed potatoes using Earth Balance and soy milk. I love to cook and do it well. If I make a soup I start it with 8 cups of filtered water. I see no reason to spend 4 bucks on 32 oz of vegetable broth when there is no need for it. Just add about a tablespoon of olive oil and a can of tomato paste to the water for the base. Take about 2 onions chop it up throw it in. Crush about 4 cloves of garlic and toss it in, take about 5 tomato, crush them and throw them in also. Throw in a bag of 16 bean soup mix. Add a can of black beans. Now you can sea salt it and also use oregano, crushed red pepper, a lttle curry powder(go easy with this), some Braggs seasoning and voila, delicious hearty soup. I also baked a vegan chocolate cake with vegan frosting today.

Also if anyone has a Trader Joes near them by all means go shop there. You will save a ton of money!! If I walk out of there spending 100 bucks I would easily have spent about 150 in say Stop and Shop. All their frozen organic vegetables are 1.99 per bag as opposed to conventional supermarkets which charge like 3.89.

[Remy]

I wonder if Shawna ever takes a look at this thread anymore, if she does, i wanted to add my two pence...
Many of my veg friends dont approve of my way of thinking, but I dont condemn people who have their own moderate-sized farms and keep their animals for food.
I spent much of my childhood on a farm, I saw how much work my relatives put into assuring the animals were fine and healthy, had proper nutrition, spent enough time out in the open air, grazing, being around each other. They were killed at some point in their life, the procedure being as quick and as painless as possible. My grandpa always cried when he had to do it, he was emotionally attached to our animals. There is a huge difference between this and factory farming.

I also see how someone makes an effort buying free range eggs or meat.

For many people, it still seems impossible to shun meat completely, but even if you don't feel like you're ready to go all the way, there's still a big difference you can make! (Never buy factory-farmed meat. Buy free-range from local farmers.)