Would Stevie have become the success she is without Lindsey

[holidayroad]

Of course, Stevie is an amazing performer, but would she have been as successful if she had never worked with Lindsey??

[David]

Nobody's defining "success" in these polls. Everyone assumes we are talking only about commercial success.

I think it's very possible Nicks could have been commercially successful without her compadres in Fleetwood Mac, including Lindsey Buckingham. But I don't think she'd have been artistically successful (which is something subjective & not a "macroview" event).

She simply didn't have the talent to create wonderful records on her own. People say that she'd have signed up with label people: producers, session players, engineers, etc. But that sort of impersonality & corporate decision-making doesn't often make for wonderful, memorable music. The annals of pop, especially in 1973, 1974, 1975, & 1976, are filled with crappy records made under just those conditions -- records essentially pulled together by lawyers. Those records are in the dustbin of history or faux novelty now.

[holidayroad]

Nobody's defining "success" in these polls. Everyone assumes we are talking only about commercial success.

I think it's very possible Nicks could have been commercially successful without her compadres in Fleetwood Mac, including Lindsey Buckingham. But I don't think she'd have been artistically successful (which is something subjective & not a "macroview" event).

She simply didn't have the talent to create wonderful records on her own. People say that she'd have signed up with label people: producers, session players, engineers, etc. But that sort of impersonality & corporate decision-making doesn't often make for wonderful, memorable music. The annals of pop, especially in 1973, 1974, 1975, & 1976, are filled with crappy records made under just those conditions -- records essentially pulled together by lawyers. Those records are in the dustbin of history or faux novelty now.

I guess I really should have said it as "Would Stevie Nicks have been a worldwide commercial success if she had never met Lindsey Buckingham?"

[HejiraNYC]

Nobody's defining "success" in these polls. Everyone assumes we are talking only about commercial success.

I think it's very possible Nicks could have been commercially successful without her compadres in Fleetwood Mac, including Lindsey Buckingham. But I don't think she'd have been artistically successful (which is something subjective & not a "macroview" event).

She simply didn't have the talent to create wonderful records on her own. People say that she'd have signed up with label people: producers, session players, engineers, etc. But that sort of impersonality & corporate decision-making doesn't often make for wonderful, memorable music. The annals of pop, especially in 1973, 1974, 1975, & 1976, are filled with crappy records made under just those conditions -- records essentially pulled together by lawyers. Those records are in the dustbin of history or faux novelty now.

I agree to the extent that without Lindsey, FM would not have been so successful and therefore Stevie would not have had the visibility and/or credibility to make t0p notch solo albums. However, that being said, I don't think Lindsey had any kind of influence whatsoever over her solo work. If anything, Tom Petty and Don Henley were much larger influences on her solo sound than Lindsey. And Lindsey did not teach Stevie how to write poetry and he did not inspire her interest in ghosts, witches and haunting heroines. Stevie is/was always her own person with a truly unique persona and point of view. So, at the end of the day, Lindsey may have helped her success indirectly by making FM a commercial success. But the success of Stevie's solo career has everything to do with Stevie and her other collaborators/boyfriends.

[Tango]

I'm not sure how to answer this, so I picked 'unsure.'

I think they were both extremely lucky that Lindsey was tapped to get into Fleetwood Mac. That was one of those things that "stories are told, rumours" were literally written about. ;) They were just picking up some interest in Birmingham, AL when Buckingham Nicks came out, but they were dropped by their label Polydor-- as are most talented singer/song writers. Achieving success isn't just about talent--it's about luck. There's a lot of talented musicians on the planet--there's a few even on this board. Stevie and Lindsey were lucky musicially to find each other. They happened to meet at a young people's group one evening.

Stevie was lucky when she got the tap to get into "The Fritz Rabyne Memorial Band." They were both lucky to get some exposure and get picked by "powers" to leave the group. They were fortunate to have the wherewithall to pursue BN. Then they were incredibly lucky to have their music heard by Mick who happened to be scoping out a potential need for a guitarist.

Would Stevie have become the success she is without Lindsey? Probably not. And Lindsey might not have achieved his own success without Stevie. There were a lot of stars aligning up for this whole "thing" to happen. It's not all about talent. It's not just about Lindsey. It's not just about Stevie. There's a LOT of luck involved. If they had no talent, nothing would have happened. Stevie and Lindsey both had a full measure of talent.

[holidayroad]

I'm not sure how to answer this, so I picked 'unsure.'

I think they were both extremely lucky that Lindsey was tapped to get into Fleetwood Mac. That was one of those things that "stories are told, rumours" were literally written about. ;) They were just picking up some interest in Birmingham, AL when Buckingham Nicks came out, but they were dropped by their label Polydor-- as are most talented singer/song writers. Achieving success isn't just about talent--it's about luck. There's a lot of talented musicians on the planet--there's a few even on this board. Stevie and Lindsey were lucky musicially to find each other. They happened to meet at a young people's group one evening.

Stevie was lucky when she got the tap to get into "The Fritz Rabyne Memorial Band." They were both lucky to get some exposure and get picked by "powers" to leave the group. They were fortunate to have the wherewithall to pursue BN. Then they were incredibly lucky to have their music heard by Mick who happened to be scoping out a potential need for a guitarist.

Would Stevie have become the success she is without Lindsey? Probably not. And Lindsey might not have achieved his own success without Stevie. There were a lot of stars aligning up for this whole "thing" to happen. It's not all about talent. It's not just about Lindsey. It's not just about Stevie. There's a LOT of luck involved. If they had no talent, nothing would have happened. Stevie and Lindsey both had a full measure of talent.

Very well said!!

[daniellaaarisen]

She may have been successful to some degree, but I think Stevie would have been a very two-dimensional artist. Imagine if we only ever heard her solo albums.... now imagine that you couldn't hear a drop of Lindsey's influence on any of those tracks. You simply can't picture it. NOW, take out every song about Lindsey....

Yeah, not happening. I mean I could still see her being fairly successful but would she be THE Stevie Nicks? I don't think so.

[michelej1]

Stevie and Lindsey were lucky musicially to find each other. They happened to meet at a young people's group one evening.

Stevie was lucky when she got the tap to get into "The Fritz Rabyne Memorial Band." They were both lucky to get some exposure and get picked by "powers" to leave the group. They were fortunate to have the wherewithall to pursue BN. Then they were incredibly lucky to have their music heard by Mick who happened to be scoping out a potential need for a guitarist.


You make me think of Jack Finney. What if I went back in time to that youth group meeting and waylaid Stevie before she entered the room and saw Lindsey playing? I'd detain her until the strains of California Dreaming faded away and ensure they never met, changing history.

Michele

[louielouie2000]

I don't know if anybody would have been patient enough to work with Stevie's raw talent besides Lindsey. I think it would take somebody who was in a relationship with her, who was a musician, and had industry ties. I tend to think the stars aligned when she met Lindsey... and again when Mick heard Frozen Love. I just can't see her getting those one in a bazillion chances again...

[Tango]

You make me think of Jack Finney. What if I went back in time to that youth group meeting and waylaid Stevie before she entered the room and saw Lindsey playing? I'd detain her until the strains of California Dreaming faded away and ensure they never met, changing history.

Michele

You make me think of "It's A Wonderful Life." There'd be no Crystal, Go Your Own Way, Never Going Back Again, Not That Funny, I Know I'm Not Wrong, on one hand, and on the other hand, there would be no Rhiannon, Landslide, Gold Dust Woman, Dreams . . . would there be a Rumours?

http://static.open.salon.com/files/jamesstewart4601231343406.jpg

;)

There'd be no money, no excesses, no laying on the floor smoking hash, developing his guitar techniques . . . Lindsey might have ended up forever playing bass for Javier and Fritz. His song would truly be I'm So Afraid. Perhaps he might have finished his education and worked in the family business.

Stevie was almost done her degree-- what was it? Speech Communication and an ability to take shorthand and dictation?

http://www.house8.com/weblog/The%2BWABAC%2BMachine.jpg
The "Danger" sign on the "way back machine" is there for a purpose.

:laugh:

[David]

I don't know if anybody would have been patient enough to work with Stevie's raw talent besides Lindsey. That's the omnipresent theme in all the master-reel audio I've heard: Whenever all those musicians aren't tracking an actual take of one of Stevie's songs, they're off on their own thing. To them, her music was a drag -- a job -- & they spend every spare moment playing other music (& they generally sound a lot spunkier doing the latter, too). That's the <i>real</i> revelation in the master reels.

I know others hear "masterpiece" when they listen to "Bella Donna," but I hear "We wish we were playing James Brown instead of <i>After the Friggin Glitter Fades</i>."

[chiliD]

I agree to the extent that without Lindsey, FM would not have been so successful and therefore Stevie would not have had the visibility and/or credibility to make t0p notch solo albums. However, that being said, I don't think Lindsey had any kind of influence whatsoever over her solo work. If anything, Tom Petty and Don Henley were much larger influences on her solo sound than Lindsey. And Lindsey did not teach Stevie how to write poetry and he did not inspire her interest in ghosts, witches and haunting heroines. Stevie is/was always her own person with a truly unique persona and point of view. So, at the end of the day, Lindsey may have helped her success indirectly by making FM a commercial success. But the success of Stevie's solo career has everything to do with Stevie and her other collaborators/boyfriends.

No. Stevie's solo success is DIRECTLY a result of her gaining fame with Fleetwood Mac. No Lindsey, No Fleetwood Mac, No Fleetwood Mac, No Fame. Simple as that.

[David]

I agree to the extent that without Lindsey, FM would not have been so successful and therefore Stevie would not have had the visibility and/or credibility to make t0p notch solo albums. However, that being said, I don't think Lindsey had any kind of influence whatsoever over her solo work. I agree.

If anything, Tom Petty and Don Henley were much larger influences on her solo sound than Lindsey. I agree.

And Lindsey did not teach Stevie how to write poetryI don't think <i>anybody</i> taught Stevie how to write poetry. That's the problem.

So, at the end of the day, Lindsey may have helped her success indirectly by making FM a commercial success. But the success of Stevie's solo career has everything to do with Stevie and her other collaborators/boyfriends.Her stardom in 1981 played a pretty big role in her solo success, I would think.

[belladonnadream]

Well in the early years Lindsey was her backbone and she was his in many ways bringing in the dough....so as much as I love her to death...I voted no....they broke in to the business together and they learned and grew together in the beginning..so I don't think that either one would have had the experience under their belts to just have become strong solo artists..they fed off eachother musically and emotionally.

[RoseGarden]

There are some very good points stated here.
I voted unsure ..... I really think Stevie would have broke out into country music even if it took her until she was 40 to be noticed. Stevie was destined to be a musical story teller.

[grace_face]

I was re-reading Read Between My Lines last night, and was thinking about how Buckingham Nicks didn't get any real commercial success, but then later on after she and Lindsey were already known, it became popular.

And to me, the songs sound very Fleetwood Mac-ish, so it annoys me actually that nobody gave them that recognition back then...it's like some sort of nerd making a joke and nobody laughing, and then 5 minutes later a cool kid makes the exact same joke and everyone laughs. NOT FAIR! But then of course, if they'd been successful, they wouldn't probably have joined FM.

I think Lindsey and Stevie, not necessarily as a pair, but in combination with Fleetwood Mac's vibe and the timing of everything in the music industry and society, made it so they and especially Stevie, so gorgeous, unique and charismatic, became really amazingly popular. I think it was just a combination of many factors and the right timing.

In terms of Lindsey adding his magic to Stevie's songs...I don't really know...but I think this is a big thing. He really did give a lot of her songs the magical sort of feeling and catchiness we know today...but then, on her solo songs, he wasn't there to do that then, and they're still amazing...so who the hell knows! My brain hurts now. :shrug:

[louielouie2000]

I was re-reading Read Between My Lines last night, and was thinking about how Buckingham Nicks didn't get any real commercial success, but then later on after she and Lindsey were already known, it became popular.

And to me, the songs sound very Fleetwood Mac-ish, so it annoys me actually that nobody gave them that recognition back then...it's like some sort of nerd making a joke and nobody laughing, and then 5 minutes later a cool kid makes the exact same joke and everyone laughs. NOT FAIR! But then of course, if they'd been successful, they wouldn't probably have joined FM.

I think Lindsey and Stevie, not necessarily as a pair, but in combination with Fleetwood Mac's vibe and the timing of everything in the music industry and society, made it so they and especially Stevie, so gorgeous, unique and charismatic, became really amazingly popular. I think it was just a combination of many factors and the right timing.

In terms of Lindsey adding his magic to Stevie's songs...I don't really know...but I think this is a big thing. He really did give a lot of her songs the magical sort of feeling and catchiness we know today...but then, on her solo songs, he wasn't there to do that then, and they're still amazing...so who the hell knows! My brain hurts now. :shrug:

You've definitely summed up my feelings on the matter. Buckingham Nicks is indeed similar in style to the first several Fleetwood Mac albums, especially Lindsey's material. Stevie however, blossomed by leaps and bounds in Fleetwood Mac. In Buckingham Nicks, she was still a bit raw and unpolished. I think being in a band with such strong personalities, she kinda had to carve out her own identity more, and up her ante. Her vocals on the early Fleetwood Mac albums are far superior to anything she did in Buckingham Nicks, and even more notably her lyrics got WAY better post '75. Perhaps more notably yet, she polished her visual style in Fleetwood Mac, and blossomed into one of the most gorgeous and unique women rock has ever seen. Stevie has always been a talent... but she needed the nurturing of years of struggling with Lindsey, then the inter-competition within Fleetwood Mac to truly make her great.

[CADreaming]

You've definitely summed up my feelings on the matter. Buckingham Nicks is indeed similar in style to the first several Fleetwood Mac albums, especially Lindsey's material.

The reason is because those are Buckingham Nicks tracks. If you remove Christine McVie's songs off the first two albums, you essentially have Buckingham Nicks II.

Stevie however, blossomed by leaps and bounds in Fleetwood Mac. In Buckingham Nicks, she was still a bit raw and unpolished. I think being in a band with such strong personalities, she kinda had to carve out her own identity more, and up her ante. Her vocals on the early Fleetwood Mac albums are far superior to anything she did in Buckingham Nicks, and even more notably her lyrics got WAY better post '75. Perhaps more notably yet, she polished her visual style in Fleetwood Mac, and blossomed into one of the most gorgeous and unique women rock has ever seen. Stevie has always been a talent... but she needed the nurturing of years of struggling with Lindsey, then the inter-competition within Fleetwood Mac to truly make her great.

Whoa, I disagree with your BN assessment. She sounds just as good there as she did on the early FM, which as I pointed out was an extension of already conceieved (for the most part) BN tunes.

I agree FM catapulted her into stardom but I think everything you pointed out about Stevie had been cultivated in Fritz and early BN. Let's not forget (ducking all the pre-BN lovers here) that BN is what caused FM's sucess to explode. When she calls FM "her" band...I think she's right. BN owned that band after "Rumours" and it took them both coming back in '97 to salvage it.

Would Stevie had been the success she is without Lindsey? No. She said herself they were both too afraid to leave San Francisco alone. They needed each other. If she had not met him, who knows? Could she have been successful? Maybe - but more than likely she would have always needed someone like Lindsey to mold her songs into radio friendly music.

[michelej1]

Whoa, I disagree with your BN assessment. She sounds just as good there as she did on the early FM, which as I pointed out was an extension of already conceieved (for the most part) BN tunes.


I kind of agree with Louie about her vocals on the BN album. However, the BN live boots we have . . . she's smokin'. So, she had the pipes then. She just didn't use them to great effect on that studio album, imo.

Michele

[michelej1]

I don't know if anybody would have been patient enough to work with Stevie's raw talent besides Lindsey.

Yeah, I always got a kick out of Waddy saying he asked Lindsey how he could stand it. I don't know what Waddy thought of Stevie's voice, but he objected to the flowery stuff. I got the impression that not many would have muddled through those demos. Love makes you do a lot. Michele

[David]

Let's not forget (ducking all the pre-BN lovers here) that BN is what caused FM's sucess to explode. But BN had to gel into BN first (which took about four years). That's why BN couldn't get BN to explode.

Lindsey & Stevie didn't join FM as superstars; in fact, they joined as commercial failures. They turned into superstars & commercial powerhouses only after having been in FM for a year or two, & by that time, the entire group was really big & it was already difficult to separate out the individual strands responsible for all the hits & the fame.

[CADreaming]

But BN had to gel into BN first (which took about four years). That's why BN couldn't get BN to explode.

Lindsey & Stevie didn't join FM as superstars; in fact, they joined as commercial failures. They turned into superstars & commercial powerhouses only after having been in FM for a year or two, & by that time, the entire group was really big & it was already difficult to separate out the individual strands responsible for all the hits & the fame.


I think the BN sound infused into FM (along with great PR by Warners) is what really caused the band to go over the top. I believe BN would have been successful - not as successful without FM but they were being played in the South and establishing a solid fan base here. I think it would have continued to grow. Personally, I think they were being courted or had other labels interested...maybe even WB... I don't think Olsen had given up on them yet, which is why he played FL for Mick that fateful day...

But, you are right on about it being difficult to separate out those strands. And, I think that's why Stevie likes FM so much as it was with Christine - Stevie gets to be shuffled in and the mix becomes much more muddled. Otherwise, if you take Christine out, it does go back to BN and you can definitely hear Lindsey's influence all over her songs. I think that fact alone brings out all sorts of insecurities whether she would admit it or not.

[louielouie2000]

The reason is because those are Buckingham Nicks tracks. If you remove Christine McVie's songs off the first two albums, you essentially have Buckingham Nicks II.



Whoa, I disagree with your BN assessment. She sounds just as good there as she did on the early FM, which as I pointed out was an extension of already conceieved (for the most part) BN tunes.

See? And I can't disagree with that more :D. Just imagine Rhiannon without John McVie's killer bass... or Dreams without Mick Fleetwood's snarey drums. Fleetwood Mac MADE those songs into what they are. We know The Chain is another Stevie lyric song... just imagine that one without the Fleetwood Mac influence on it. Fleetwood Mac was the glazing that made Stevie's doughnut edible... the sugar that made her coffee drinkable :lol:. Stevie needed Lindsey to work with her for years crafting her sound and style... and even more so, she needed Fleetwood Mac to polish up her songs into a blinding sheen to make them digestible for the general public. Still having doubts? Listen to Crying In The Night and Gold Dust Woman back to back... those songs are not only in different leagues, they're in different universes. Stevie developed her mystical sound and style as a reaction to listening to the back catalogue of Mac material (she's said this herself), and as a need to set herself apart in a band of big personalities. In BN she was writing songs about sunflowers and whores... in Fleetwood Mac she wrote about mythological ladies and dreams :laugh:. Stevie had the possibility of breaking into the music biz without Lindsey or Fleetwood Mac, but she wouldn't have had the chance at becoming a superstar.

[David]

I think the BN sound infused into FM (along with great PR by Warners) is what really caused the band to go over the top. I believe BN would have been successful - not as successful without FM but they were being played in the South and establishing a solid fan base here. I think it would have continued to grow. Personally, I think they were being courted or had other labels interested...maybe even WB... I guess I'm not very knowledgeable about those days. I thought B&N were forced into the position of doing their second album on spec. I had no idea that record labels were lined up hoping to sign them.

[LukeA]

I think the BN sound infused into FM (along with great PR by Warners) is what really caused the band to go over the top.

Warners pushed the BN dynamic? Huh? They released two CM singles, and the one Stevie song/BN composition, "Rhiannon", was pretty middling in terms of Top 40 success. I don't think Warner needed to push any PR as far as the band's relationships went.

[BombaySapphire3]

Warners pushed the BN dynamic? Huh? They released two CM singles, and the one Stevie song/BN composition, "Rhiannon", was pretty middling in terms of Top 40 success. I don't think Warner needed to push any PR as far as the band's relationships went.

Rhiannon hit number 11 pop as did Say You Love Me. However Rhiannon was the number one most played FM rock track of 1976 ..it was a huge hit with massive airplay then in that respect.

[LukeA]

Rhiannon hit number 11 pop as did Say You Love Me. However Rhiannon was the number one most played FM rock track of 1976 ..it was a huge hit with massive airplay then in that respect.

Yes, but Warners released two CM singles (point being, they weren't pushing the BN dynamic as the "new FM")

[CADreaming]

Warners pushed the BN dynamic? Huh? They released two CM singles, and the one Stevie song/BN composition, "Rhiannon", was pretty middling in terms of Top 40 success. I don't think Warner needed to push any PR as far as the band's relationships went.

Point taken about CM's singles. I didn't say WB "pushed" the BN dynamic - you put words in my mouth. I said I felt their sound is what made FM a huge success. Releasing CM singles is a natural thing to do when you are trying to adjust an existing fan base to new band members - of course they would ease them in gently. "Rhiannon" may have not been a chart hit - but it is what made Stevie Nicks the star of the show.

But, you don't think the record label had anything to do with pushing the relationships? Oh my! Rumours did not get to be the biggest selling album based on the music alone - and it certainly wasn't because the relationship issues were kept so "hush hush". If you think that WB wasn't behind that gravy train, you're underestimating the power of the machinery. Hard to fathom your obtuseness on this, Luke.

[CADreaming]

I guess I'm not very knowledgeable about those days. I thought B&N were forced into the position of doing their second album on spec. I had no idea that record labels were lined up hoping to sign them.

Reasons for this speculation:

1. Lindsey isn't jumping up and down to join FM
2. Keith Olsen is still in the picture
3. SnL are still working on music for a follow up album
4. Mick Fleetwood spends hours trying to convince SnL to join his relatively successful band

If you don't have options, you don't sit around a studio all day working on music. You tuck your tail betweeen your legs and go back home. Or, you join the Everly Brother tour without your girlfriend. You certainly don't still have an engineer/"producer" promoting your stuff.

By the end of 1974, BN had met a lot of people in the industry. I believe there is more to the business side than we've been told.

[Matthew]

Maybe later, but I´m sure she would be success singer even without working with Lindsey. She writes, she sings... sooner or later she would definitely be a star. Maybe not so big (because without Fleetwood Mac), but I´m sure we would know about her.

[michelej1]

Reasons for this speculation:

1. Lindsey isn't jumping up and down to join FM
2. Keith Olsen is still in the picture
3. SnL are still working on music for a follow up album
4. Mick Fleetwood spends hours trying to convince SnL to join his relatively successful band

If you don't have options, you don't sit around a studio all day working on music. You tuck your tail betweeen your legs and go back home. Or, you join the Everly Brother tour without your girlfriend. You certainly don't still have an engineer/"producer" promoting your stuff.

By the end of 1974, BN had met a lot of people in the industry. I believe there is more to the business side than we've been told.

But Stevie sounds like she did have her tail between her legs and was ready to go home (or back to school) at the time. Lindsey didn't, but Lindsey is . . . crazy. I don't think it means he had other irons in the fire. I think it means he might have been a little in denial and he needed to miss a few meals or rent payments before it really hit him that their options were exhausted.

On the other hand, in that Warren Zevon book, I'll Sleep When I'm Dead, I have always said since I read it that it shocked me how the guy (Eddie something I think) pointed out that Lindsey had been making a lot of money on tour and didn't need Fleetwood Mac. In fact, he remembers asking Lindsey how he could even consider giving up what he had (?) to join the band. That was something I had never heard before reading that.

Michele

[michelej1]

Yes, but Warners released two CM singles (point being, they weren't pushing the BN dynamic as the "new FM")

Yes, I didn't like the way the Don't Stop documentary made it sound like Rhiannon is what made the White album explode.


Michele

[Villavic]

I think probably yes. Stevie made great albums where Lindsey was no present.

Though all things in life is produced by a combination of opportunites plus talent.

And I think the correct question would be Would Stevie have become the success she is without Fleetwood Mac?

and another question is
Would Fleetwood Mac have become the success she is without Stevie Nicks? I mean, what would have happened if Mick hired Lindsey without Stevie? White Album and Rumours without the Stevie hits, probably Rumours wouldn't be that best selling album

[CADreaming]

But Stevie sounds like she did have her tail between her legs and was ready to go home (or back to school) at the time. Lindsey didn't, but Lindsey is . . . crazy. I don't think it means he had other irons in the fire. I think it means he might have been a little in denial and he needed to miss a few meals or rent payments before it really hit him that their options were exhausted.

On the other hand, in that Warren Zevon book, I'll Sleep When I'm Dead, I have always said since I read it that it shocked me how the guy (Eddie something I think) pointed out that Lindsey had been making a lot of money on tour and didn't need Fleetwood Mac. In fact, he remembers asking Lindsey how he could even consider giving up what he had (?) to join the band. That was something I had never heard before reading that.

Michele

That's why I think there was more going on from the business side than we have heard about. Also, I think Stevie was deathly afraid that Lindsey would drop her (at least professionally) after BN failed when he could get jobs gigging and make good money. (ie: Aspen fight) I think Stevie's DAD was the one who was ready for her to make some different life choices but she was determined to 1. not lose Lindsey and 2. not give up on the dream - in whatever priority or overlapping priorities those two things would have been placed.

My point being BN, as both a duo and an album, had made at least a few waves to get more exposure and more visibility in the industry. Enough for Keith Olsen to still be in the game, enough for Lindsey to continue working on BN music, enough for Mick Fleetwood to beg Lindsey to join the band - and "hey, we'll even take your girlfriend too"...

What if BN had already been shopped to WB? What if Mo Ostin decided BN was exactly what FM needed to become successful in North America? What if a band-with-couples-formula was being replicated by WB to spice up the competition(ie: ABBA)?

Lindsey put it this way in his documentary - Mo Ostin had enough foresight to allow FM to "ferment" until they were "ready" for Buckingham Nicks to join the band. It couldn't have been Mick Fleetwood's sole decision. Mo Ostin or other powers that be had to give the green light for BN to join FM. WB had invested in the band but were looking for a way to really get them going. Too many executives who get a piece of the pie are involved for this "merger" to not have been a little less fairy tale and little more where do I sign...

[David]

It couldn't have been Mick Fleetwood's sole decision. Mo Ostin or other powers that be had to give the green light for BN to join FM. WB had invested in the band but were looking for a way to really get them going. I don't think that was the case at all. I think the remaining three members of Fleetwood Mac were the only people necessary to OK the additions. (Bob Welch would have been in on any such decision, too, had he stayed, because the band was considering "fresh blood" earlier in 1974 -- not to replace Bob but to supplement him.) Mickey Shapiro, who started legally representing the band in 1974, described how Warner Bros. treated Fleetwood Mac at the time: "They don't come here & bother us, & we don't bother them. We mail them a check & they mail us back an album & we put a cover on it."

After Clifford Davis, Bob Welch managed the band's business affairs, but Mick seems to have slowly assumed those duties over time -- probably because Bob Welch was getting tired of the whole scene during the 1974 recording of "Heroes Are Hard to Find" & the tour afterward. By the time Welch said he was leaving, in December, I would imagine that only Mick, John, & Chris were needed to make personnel decisions legally. I doubt Warner or the new lawyer even cared.

And I don't think Keith Olsen had some grand new scheme to make over Fleetwood Mac. Mick Fleetwood didn't even know Keith Olsen until December, & he only went to see Olsen at Sound City because an acquaintance named Thomas Christian told him to. Had Mick not bumped into Christian at the grocery store, he could have ended up at virtually any recording studio in Los Angeles to record the band's next album. Christian only mentioned Sound City to Mick because he was working there. It really was all a freakish series of random incidents.

[CADreaming]

I don't think that was the case at all. I think the remaining three members of Fleetwood Mac were the only people necessary to OK the additions. (Bob Welch would have been in on any such decision, too, had he stayed, because the band was considering "fresh blood" earlier in 1974 -- not to replace Bob but to supplement him.) Mickey Shapiro, who started legally representing the band in 1974, described how Warner Bros. treated Fleetwood Mac at the time: "They don't come here & bother us, & we don't bother them. We mail them a check & they mail us back an album & we put a cover on it."

After Clifford Davis, Bob Welch managed the band's business affairs, but Mick seems to have slowly assumed those duties over time -- probably because Bob Welch was getting tired of the whole scene during the 1974 recording of "Heroes Are Hard to Find" & the tour afterward. By the time Welch said he was leaving, in December, I would imagine that only Mick, John, & Chris were needed to make personnel decisions legally. I doubt Warner or the new lawyer even cared.

And I don't think Keith Olsen had some grand new scheme to make over Fleetwood Mac. Mick Fleetwood didn't even know Keith Olsen until December, & he only went to see Olsen at Sound City because an acquaintance named Thomas Christian told him to. Had Mick not bumped into Christian at the grocery store, he could have ended up at virtually any recording studio in Los Angeles to record the band's next album. Christian only mentioned Sound City to Mick because he was working there. It really was all a freakish series of random incidents.

I didn't know about the earlier stuff. Great info.

I don't think Olsen had any grand ideas about FM either. I do think he was still trying to get a deal for BN...but far be it from me to burst anybody's randomly freakish bubble. I guess WB and Ostin weren't as smart as I thought. What a happy surprise for them...

[David]

I didn't know about the earlier stuff. Great info.

I don't think Olsen had any grand ideas about FM either. I do think he was still trying to get a deal for BN...but far be it from me to burst anybody's randomly freakish bubble. I guess WB and Ostin weren't as smart as I thought. What a happy surprise for them...You know you can burst my bubble any time. I was just thinking about how Keith might have wanted to push Buckingham & Nicks into an already up & running band -- say, one of the bands he was affiliated with, like the Music Machine, Dr. John, or the Grateful Dead.

Imagine Lindsey Buckingham & Stevie Nicks working with Jerry Garcia & Bob Weir in the Dead during the folkie years of 1974 to 1976!

[CADreaming]

You know you can burst my bubble any time. I was just thinking about how Keith might have wanted to push Buckingham & Nicks into an already up & running band -- say, one of the bands he was affiliated with, like the Music Machine, Dr. John, or the Grateful Dead.

Imagine Lindsey Buckingham & Stevie Nicks working with Jerry Garcia & Bob Weir in the Dead during the folkie years of 1974 to 1976!

It would have been wild!! What about the James Gang? Stevie could have hooked up with Joe even sooner! :laugh:

[daniellaaarisen]

Imagine Lindsey Buckingham & Stevie Nicks working with Jerry Garcia & Bob Weir in the Dead during the folkie years of 1974 to 1976!

My trainer for horses worked at Magoo's Pizza Parlor in Palo Alto when the Grateful Dead started there under the name The Warlocks. She first met them at 15. One night, she was cleaning up after closing and the band was packing their stuff away. Jerry Garcia looked at her and was like, "you, how old are you?" She lied and told him that she was 17. She apparently partied with them every Friday and Saturday night for about six months. :lol:

[hippilil86]

My trainer for horses worked at Magoo's Pizza Parlor in Palo Alto when the Grateful Dead started there under the name The Warlocks. She first met them at 15. One night, she was cleaning up after closing and the band was packing their stuff away. Jerry Garcia looked at her and was like, "you, how old are you?" She lied and told him that she was 17. She apparently partied with them every Friday and Saturday night for about six months. :lol:

Dani, you are so California.
It's not a bad thing, it's just....no one in say....my lovely home state of Minnesota would have as many stories like this as you do.
I love it.

[CADreaming]

My trainer for horses worked at Magoo's Pizza Parlor in Palo Alto when the Grateful Dead started there under the name The Warlocks. She first met them at 15. One night, she was cleaning up after closing and the band was packing their stuff away. Jerry Garcia looked at her and was like, "you, how old are you?" She lied and told him that she was 17. She apparently partied with them every Friday and Saturday night for about six months. :lol:

LOL!!! Love that! Great story! :laugh:

[daniellaaarisen]

Dani, you are so California.
It's not a bad thing, it's just....no one in say....my lovely home state of Minnesota would have as many stories like this as you do.
I love it.

I know, its a little ridiculous. I don't even live down in LA where all the action takes place, haha.