We're always discussing favs... so look at the ugly!

[louielouie2000]

I just posted a variation of this on the Stevie board. It seems we're always talking about favorites, the best of the best, what speaks to our hearts, etc. So let's dish some dirt now instead! :lol: What's the worst Mac album to you, and why? I say we should include any album from 1975-present, including Behind the Mask and Time.

To me, the title, tiara, and bouquet go to Mirage. The whole heaping mess just seems like an afterthought, filler, and half hearted. Lindsey's songs are all abominations, sans Eyes Of The World. The whole '50s pop throwback theme he was going for was just gross, and unimaginative. I realize he probably did it as a way to protest the band members wanting to go back to a more pop-commercial sound. Stevie's nod to country western, That's Alright, has no place on a Mac album. The only person who has consistently good material on this album is Christine.

It's not all bad though. Stevie's songs Straight Back and Gypsy were the last really great Mac songs she ever recorded. Christine's material is predictably good, with Hold Me being one of my favorite Mac tunes of all time. It just makes me smile hugely, and ALWAYS puts me in the best mood when I hear it on the radio. As a whole though, the album just comes across as flat and soulless to me though. :distress:

[LikeAMagnet]

I just posted a variation of this on the Stevie board. It seems we're always talking about favorites, the best of the best, what speaks to our hearts, etc. So let's dish some dirt now instead! :lol: What's the worst Mac album to you, and why? I say we should include any album from 1975-present, including Behind the Mask and Time.

To me, the title, tiara, and bouquet go to Mirage. The whole heaping mess just seems like an afterthought, filler, and half hearted. Lindsey's songs are all abominations, sans Eyes Of The World. The whole '50s pop throwback theme he was going for was just gross, and unimaginative. I realize he probably did it as a way to protest the band members wanting to go back to a more pop-commercial sound. Stevie's nod to country western, That's Alright, has no place on a Mac album. The only person who has consistently good material on this album is Christine.

It's not all bad though. Stevie's songs Straight Back and Gypsy were the last really great Mac songs she ever recorded. Christine's material is predictably good, with Hold Me being one of my favorite Mac tunes of all time. It just makes me smile hugely, and ALWAYS puts me in the best mood when I hear it on the radio. As a whole though, the album just comes across as flat and soulless to me though. :distress:

Two words to back up that entire arguement:

Oh Diane..

What in the name of Lucifer was he thinking? It's the worst song ever. Not just the worst Fleetwood Mac song.. but EVER. Everynow and again I contemplate erasing it off itunes so it won't come on when shuffle is on.. only that I'm completely OCD and have to have the entire album it'd be gone in a flash. Mess of a song.

Oh, and the only reason Eyes Of The World is so good is cos of the Pachelbel intro! :p

[TrueFaith77]

I like "Oh Diane."

Though Mirage would not be my choice for worst post-75 Mac album, I think it marked the end of the Mac as a unified force in their albums. Each individual song on Mirage is actually quite lovely (by all three artists), but I don't hear them communicating to each other or even really complimenting each other the way they do on Rumours -- which has a narrative -- and Tusk -- in which the intertwined/alternating voices are united by a shared artistic impulse, amounting to a social vision. The songs on Mirage seem connected only if you follow the abstract theme suggested by the album's title. Still, Lindsey's attempts to understand both his desires and his musical heritage (the language that allows him to articulate his desires) on tracks like "Oh Diane" and "Can't Go Back" are interesting, pretty, touching, and... catchy. His voice sounds great too.

("Talkin' bout Diane...")

[TheWILDheart]

Oh, and the only reason Eyes Of The World is so good is cos of the Pachelbel intro! :p

I really don't like Eyes Of The World on the album, but I do enjoy it live. Can't stand Oh Diane at all. But for me, worse albums are...

pre-75: The first 2 - Fleetwood Mac & Mr. Wonderful. Don't like them at all. Having said that, I'm not a blues fan.
Rumours lineup - Tango In The Night. Some great songs, but in general I didn't like it. Stevie's absence was obvious, Lindsey's unhappiness and desire to break out was obvious, which left Christine and the boys to carry the album. She did it well as all her songs were fantastic. But Fleetwood Mac has never been about 1 person.
Post-Rumours: Time. Never felt like a Fleetwood Mac album

[Villavic]

I say we should include any album from 1975-present, including Behind the Mask and Time.

I think it's hard if we compare different lineups, but since you asked for it, I'd say I never listen the TIME album, so that's my choice.

[BellaDonna93]

For me it's Behind The Mask because it isn't Fleetwood Mac, the real Fleetwood Mac, because of that Lindsey left...so yeah, Behind The Mask.

[holidayroad]

I love Lindsey, but I hate "Save Me A Place" from Tusk. It has okay lyrics but that's it! As for "Oh Diane", I've always liked it!

[LikeAMagnet]

I love Lindsey, but I hate "Save Me A Place" from Tusk. It has okay lyrics but that's it! As for "Oh Diane", I've always liked it!


:shocked:..

wh..whyyyyy??? :confused:

[holidayroad]

:shocked:..

wh..whyyyyy??? :confused:

It's too slow and sounds out of tune to me. I have always felt that song had zero effort put into it musically. Lyrics are fine though.

[louielouie2000]

It's too slow and sounds out of tune to me. I have always felt that song had zero effort put into it musically. Lyrics are fine though.

I much prefer the earlier renditions of this song heard on the Tusk Documentary. It was quicker, and in tune. :nod:

[AncientQueen]

I have always disliked "Tango in the night". Even when it came out I found the sound dated. I like some of the songs, but most of them bore me to death. Stevie never had a weaker outing, every song of her is subpar. Worst song on the album is "Mystified" who happens to be the worst song ever by any incarnation of FM.

I also came to hate "Little Lies" with a passion, it still pops up in elevators, shopping centers and in other random places - they did so much better, so why is this borefest their signature song? It is not that the song is bad, the overly polished, heavily overproduced final product grates on my nerves. Same for "Everywhere", the early Christine demo is just fine, then Lindsey produced it to death (and seemed to want a thank you for doing that, oh the irony).

Well, not all is bad - "Isn't it midnight" is a good song, once you hear it on the box set with the more jazzy background, you'll start liking it. The live version of "Big Love" is a fantastic song, so under all the jiggle jaggle and harmonies lies some substance. And - "Seven Wonders" had a beautiful video, at least for the 80's standard.

I would really like to be more positive, but from first listen there has always been that "What were they thinking" element about this album for me.

[vivfox]

I played the Time album twice and hated all of it. From Tango, Oh Diane and Only Over You make me barf.

Eva cassidy sings Songbird way better than Christine and while I'm on the subject of Chris: when she wasn't looking Dennis should have thrown the master of Never make Me Cry off the sailboat. And when Lindsey wasn't in the studio Stevie should have burned the master of Not That Funny. The band should have refused to let Lindsey sing Not That Funny live for longer than 3 minutes. And when Stevie was antique shopping Lindsey should have taken the master tape of Welcome To The Room Sara and hid it under the console next to his copy of Bella Donna.

[AncientQueen]

I played the Time album twice and hated all of it. From Tango, Oh Diane and Only Over You make me barf. Eva cassidy sings Songbird way better than Christine and while I'm on the subject of Chris: when she wasn't looking Dennis should have thrown the master of Never make Me Cry off the sailboat. And when Lindsey wasn't in the studio Stevie should have burned the master of Not That Funny. The band should have refused to let Lindsey sing Not That Funny live for longer than 3 minutes. And when Stevie was antique shopping Lindsey should have taken the master tape of Welcome To The Room Sara and hid it under the console next to his copy of Bella Donna.
LOL! I agree on all points. :wavey:

[chiliD]

For me it's Behind The Mask because it isn't Fleetwood Mac, the real Fleetwood Mac, because of that Lindsey left...so yeah, Behind The Mask.

The REAL Fleetwood Mac is: Peter Green, Jeremy Spencer, Danny Kirwan, John McVie, Mick Fleetwood

So don't EVEN THINK about Fleetwood Mac not being "Fleetwood Mac" because there was no Lindsey Buckingham! :mad::mad::mad::mad:

The only "bogus" Fleetwood Mac was the one that attempted to finish out the Mystery To Me tour. Everything else is legitimate, Buckingham or no Buckingham. :mad::mad::mad:

I played the Time album twice and hated all of it. From Tango, Oh Diane and Only Over You make me barf.


Um...you mean "Oh Diane" & "Only Over You" from MIRAGE and not TANGO, right? Helps to know what album you're listening when you're rating the songs; adds credibility to your opinions. ;)



The list of Fleetwood Mac "stinkers" (in chronological order from oldest to newest):

When You Say
(I'm A) Roadrunner
Not That Funny (studio version)
Oh Diane
Welcome To The Room...Sara
The Second Time
Running Through The Garden
Silver Girl

To me, that's about it. In 40+ years and all the songs they've released, that's a pretty good percentage of decent material to only have 8 "stinkers" in the bunch.

[LikeAMagnet]

The REAL Fleetwood Mac is: Peter Green, Jeremy Spencer, Danny Kirwan, John McVie, Mick Fleetwood

So don't EVEN THINK about Fleetwood Mac not being "Fleetwood Mac" because there was no Lindsey Buckingham! :mad::mad::mad::mad:


The REAL Fleetwood Mac?? The REAL Fleetwood Mac is the Fleetwood Mac lineup that appeals to a person individually..
My own personal REAL Fleetwood Mac is the Rumours lineup..
Some others might consider the SYW lineup to be the REAL Fleetwood Mac.. its a subjective term really isn't it?

Surely your REAL Fleetwood Mac mightn't be others REAL Fleetwood Mac.

I do agree though, saying its not Fleetwood Mac due to the absence of one band member is, you can dress it up as much as you like but basically, ignorance..:(

[samthrax]

I do agree though, saying its not Fleetwood Mac due to the absence of one band member is, you can dress it up as much as you like but basically, ignorance..:(

In the same vain as your post, can't the REAL Fleetwood Mac be different for everyone and not just ignorant? ;)

Mirage has grown on me but I still don't think it's a great album at all. "That's Alright" and "Oh Diane" continually battle each other for "worst song on my itunes".

[goldustsongbird]

In the same vain as your post, can't the REAL Fleetwood Mac be different for everyone and not just ignorant? ;)

Mirage has grown on me but I still don't think it's a great album at all. "That's Alright" and "Oh Diane" continually battle each other for "worst song on my itunes".

:shocked: :shocked:

[samthrax]

:shocked: :shocked:

I just played the song to make sure I was talking about the correct song. I was. The first note just gives me the creeps. heh. I'm better off just ignoring it and pretending it doesn't exist.

[goldustsongbird]

I just played the song to make sure I was talking about the correct song. I was. The first note just gives me the creeps. heh. I'm better off just ignoring it and pretending it doesn't exist.

But... but... I thought everyone liked this song. :laugh: It's one of the best from Mirage.

[samthrax]

But... but... I thought everyone liked this song. :laugh: It's one of the best from Mirage.

haaa. I'm new to the party. The sarcasm was lost on me. < /obvious statement> :)

[daniellaaarisen]

Time for me, definitely. In terms of albums with the full Rumours lineup, I can't really pick one... I like Fleetwood Mac, Rumours and Tusk more than I like Mirage and Tango in the Night but there are enough gems on those two albums that I still see them as quality works as a whole. I mean, "Love In Store", "Hold Me", "Gypsy", "Stand Back, "Isn't It Midnight", "Big Love", "Family Man" (I know I'm crazy, but I like the production), "Seven Wonders" (on good days)....

[markolas]

Keep in mind, I have never owned Mirage, Behind the Mask, or Time - so I'm not considering them.

For me, the "worst" is Say You Will, mainly by default because I really love FM, Rumours, Tusk, Live, TITN, and The Dance. I remember loving SYW when it first came out, but now I see a lot of the negatives. I don't like that Christine (for the most part) isn't on it, and I don't care for most of Stevie's songs. I didn't care for her songs on TITN either, but on SYW they make up half the album, and that hurts it a lot.

I've always intended to pick up Mirage & BTM at some point, but it's never happened. I'm not too terribly interested in Time (maybe CM's contributions, but that's about it).

[ILoveFM]

Time for me, definitely. In terms of albums with the full Rumours lineup, I can't really pick one... I like Fleetwood Mac, Rumours and Tusk more than I like Mirage and Tango in the Night but there are enough gems on those two albums that I still see them as quality works as a whole. I mean, "Love In Store", "Hold Me", "Gypsy", "Stand Back, "Isn't It Midnight", "Big Love", "Family Man" (I know I'm crazy, but I like the production), "Seven Wonders" (on good days)....

Same here. Time and Behind the Mask actually . From BTM, I love Affairs of The Heart, Freedom, and Skies the Limit, but that's about it. And Time just isn't very good at all. As for 'Rumours' line-up, I agree with you Dani. I can't really choose one. I really love them all.

[belladonnadream]

Same here. Time and Behind the Mask actually . From BTM, I love Affairs of The Heart, Freedom, and Skies the Limit, but that's about it. And Time just isn't very good at all. As for 'Rumours' line-up, I agree with you Dani. I can't really choose one. I really love them all.
I don't own Time or know much about it so I guess I can't add that album in with my consideration . ...but I guess if we're talking Rumours Lineup and BTM lineup...I would have to say BTM album for the stinker. I like some of Stevie's contribution's better on BTM then Tango...like Freedom, but as a whole I liked Tango better...I really like Big Love and Christine's contribution's on this album over Rick and Billy's on BTM....though I've always been partial to Stevie. Plus Tango seemed to have more of the older Big Mac aura surrounding it... it was the last of the glitz before Lindsey left...they got a little stale after that till Lindsey came back for the Dance.

[louielouie2000]

The REAL Fleetwood Mac is: Peter Green, Jeremy Spencer, Danny Kirwan, John McVie, Mick Fleetwood

If we really want to play the technicality game, John McVie cannot be included in that list, as he wasn't a full time member in Fleetwood Mac when the band was formed.

Using your logic, Stuart Sutcliffe is a REAL member of the Beatles, and Ringo Starr is not. Millions of Beatles fans across the world would raise hell at that suggestion however (though I suspect the really hard core ones would agree).

My point is, we can be technical all we want, but the reality is the most successful lineup of any one band is what the world considers to be the real deal. I almost wish the band had changed names when Lindsey and Stevie joined, because that incarnation of the band was so very disconnected from the band's roots. But in their own way, Fleetwood Mac did just that: by simply titling the 1975 album Fleetwood Mac, they were making a statement that this was definitively a new band.

My take on post 1975 Fleetwood Mac is this. For better or worse, the band entered a new realm of success that year, effectively rendering all previous incarnations of the band null and void. In my personal opinion, so long as greater than 50% of the 1975 members of the band are present, you can call it Fleetwood Mac. With the Time album, 60% of the band was still in tact, so I definitely agree that it is a link in the Fleetwood Mac chain. However, the Time tour only had 40% of the lineup present, so I don't consider it to be the real deal. We can all argue semantics forever and twist technicalities to fit our own definitions, but the definition of real Fleetwood Mac is subjective, and can really only be defined by the individual fans themselves. I think once you reach a certain level of success and fame, your name is no longer your own, but belongs instead to the public domain. But that's just my two cents... and they are worthless to anybody but myself! :p

[GypsySorcerer]

Time for me, definitely. In terms of albums with the full Rumours lineup, I can't really pick one... I like Fleetwood Mac, Rumours and Tusk more than I like Mirage and Tango in the Night but there are enough gems on those two albums that I still see them as quality works as a whole. I mean, "Love In Store", "Hold Me", "Gypsy", "Stand Back, "Isn't It Midnight", "Big Love", "Family Man" (I know I'm crazy, but I like the production), "Seven Wonders" (on good days)....

Agreed. I would have to say Time as well, though I like a few of Christine's songs. And aside from Welcome to the Room...Sara and Whatsamattababy, I think Tango is great. Yes, I even like Family Man, Caroline, and Mystified.

[gypsy4life]

One word------TIME

[chriskisn]

One word------TIME

*throws hands up in despair*

:lol:

[GoldDustWoman87]

Well... I suppose it would be 'Mirage'. However, I do like some of the songs on Mirage. Gypsy is one of my all-time favourite FM songs. I can't help liking Can't Go Back. And Hold Me is a great tune, really feel-good. However, the album as a whole just doesn't sound very... coherent? If that's the right word to use.

A few people mentioned 'Tango'. I happen to adore 'Tango' and Welcome To The Room... Sara is one of my favourite Stevie songs. :shrug: Go figure! I guess variety really is the spice of life. :cool:

[chriskisn]

It is all the same band...there isn't a REAL Fleetwood Mac, there is one band called Fleetwood Mac, forty-two years, sixteen members, thirteen vocalists (not including Mick), numerous albums, etc.

I can't draw the line in the sand like so many other members can. For me, it is just the evolution of a band, I can't ignore part of the history, I can't ignore part of the back catalogue.

Sure some eras were more popular than others, some members more popular than others, but they are still all one and the same...

It is like watching a long-running TV series, over the years the characters change, the storylines change, the ratings figures rise and fall, the writing team changes, the production team changes, but it is still the same TV series.

One of the problems I see on the Ledge is that these artificial divides occur between pre-rumours, rumours and post rumours. I know there are there for ease of discussion, but sometimes a discussion topic can cover several forums...

To those who have never listened to anything earlier or later than the Rumours period, you should give it a go, you might find something you like.

(I'm listening to Heroes Are Hard to Find as I type - one of the best albums ever to be released by FM).

[OldTimer]

the band entered a new realm of success that year, effectively rendering all previous incarnations of the band null and void.

null and void? :shocked::shocked::( You've just designated all the FM music of Green, Spencer, Kirwan, Welch, etc, to be null and void?!?!?!

There is no justice. :shrug:

[markolas]

null and void? :shocked::shocked::( You've just designated all the FM music of Green, Spencer, Kirwan, Welch, etc, to be null and void?!?!?!

Yeah, I definitely think that's overstating it. I generally prefer the LB/SN/CM incarnation of FM, but I do enjoy the early Peter Green FM and I like what I've heard of Kiln House an awful lot. The Bob Welch era I might be inclined to agree with louie about - but *all* previous incarnations? I don't think so. The Green/Spencer FM might as well be a different band from the Stevie/Lindsey FM, and I can appreciate both on their own terms.

[dino]

Yeah, I definitely think that's overstating it. I generally prefer the LB/SN/CM incarnation of FM, but I do enjoy the early Peter Green FM and I like what I've heard of Kiln House an awful lot. The Bob Welch era I might be inclined to agree with louie about - but *all* previous incarnations? I don't think so. The Green/Spencer FM might as well be a different band from the Stevie/Lindsey FM, and I can appreciate both on their own terms.

Ditto, I've always appreciated the Green/Spencer/Kirwan band and the Rumours band on their own terms.
The first one made important, innovative music. The second one made/makes good and commercial but ultimately dispensable pop music.

[dino]

Yeah, I definitely think that's overstating it. I generally prefer the LB/SN/CM incarnation of FM, but I do enjoy the early Peter Green FM and I like what I've heard of Kiln House an awful lot. The Bob Welch era I might be inclined to agree with louie about - but *all* previous incarnations? I don't think so. The Green/Spencer FM might as well be a different band from the Stevie/Lindsey FM, and I can appreciate both on their own terms.

Ditto, I've always appreciated the Green/Spencer/Kirwan band and the Rumours band on their own terms.
The first one made important, innovative music. The second one made good and commercial but ultimately dispensable pop music. But that's just my opinion :D.

[holidayroad]

It is all the same band...there isn't a REAL Fleetwood Mac, there is one band called Fleetwood Mac, forty-two years, sixteen members, thirteen vocalists (not including Mick), numerous albums, etc.

I can't draw the line in the sand like so many other members can. For me, it is just the evolution of a band, I can't ignore part of the history, I can't ignore part of the back catalogue.

Sure some eras were more popular than others, some members more popular than others, but they are still all one and the same...

It is like watching a long-running TV series, over the years the characters change, the storylines change, the ratings figures rise and fall, the writing team changes, the production team changes, but it is still the same TV series.

One of the problems I see on the Ledge is that these artificial divides occur between pre-rumours, rumours and post rumours. I know there are there for ease of discussion, but sometimes a discussion topic can cover several forums...

To those who have never listened to anything earlier or later than the Rumours period, you should give it a go, you might find something you like.

(I'm listening to Heroes Are Hard to Find as I type - one of the best albums ever to be released by FM).

I completely agree with you!