Danny Kirwan Discussion

[chriskisn]

Ok so this forum is pretty dead at the best of times. You can get 50 threads a day started over at the twirling gypsy forum (oh sorry Rumours Forum) but anything pre or post Rumours seems to be pretty quiet.

So, bored as I am and with a couple of glasses of wine (or so) inside of me I thought I'd start listening to some Danny Kirwan stuff and then logically followed that through with a starting a thread on here. I apologise in advance if I don't make enough sense!

We all know that Danny was a brilliant, under-rated guitarist who sadly has been overshadowed by Peter.

Four FM albums (more if you include Pious Bird of Good Omen or English Rose), two Tramp albums and three solo albums were all we got from Danny. Oh, well that and a few contributions to solo albums by Jeremy, Christine and bits and pieces of miscellaneous stuff.

For one so young and brilliant we have so little to look back on of his work. We have had comebacks by Peter, Jeremy, Dave W and Bob Weston yet we will probably never see a comeback by Danny, we will never again hear a new song from him.

What, therefore, is your favourite Danny song, what do you consider his best period, etc.

For me, it will always be the early stuff that I like the best, Purple Dancer, Dragonfly, Coming Your Way and Although The Sun Is Shining and Trinity being my favourites.

I know so many people like his Bare Trees/Future Games work, but for me, nothing has surpassed his earlier work.

What about the rest of you?

[holidayroad]

I also like Trinity and Jewel Eyed Judy, but I guess I'm one of those who prefer his work on Future Games/Bare Trees.

[TrueFaith77]

Future Games/Bare Trees, for me, is the peak. I think his later solo work runs from interesting to gorgeous, but Future Games/Bare Trees is all sublime.

My absolute favorite Kirwan track is "Dust" -- rhythmically pulls you in like a slipstream, sonically transporting and lush, thematically moving. And his voice. wow. It's also my favorite non-Stevie, -Lindsey, or -Christine Mac track.

[chiliD]

I liked his contributions to the Blues Jam At Chess album..."Like It This Way", "World In A Tangle", etc.

Other than "When You Say", he didn't have any "stinkers". He may have had some limitations lyrically at times, but overall, I really liked his stuff.

Ones that "rise to the top" that I like most (in no order):

Jigsaw Puzzle Blues
One Sunny Day
My Dream
World In Harmony
Something Inside Of Me
Dragonfly
Purple Dancer
Station Man
Tell Me All The Things You Do
Sands Of Time
Woman Of 1000 Years
Child Of Mine
Sunny Side Of Heaven


Not too thrilled with the (over)use of the synth on his Midnight In San Juan album, those parts could've/should've been played on electric guitar by Danny, IMHO...would've made the songs a whole lot more listenable. From my first listen back when it came out (in the AGE of "synths") to now, that synth sound just grates on my nerves and ruins the great songs. That said, that album is actually my favorite of his three "solo" albums.

[holidayroad]

[QUOTE=TrueFaith77;847676]Future Games/Bare Trees, for me, is the peak. I think his later solo work runs from interesting to gorgeous, but Future Games/Bare Trees is all sublime. My absolute favorite Kirwan track is "Dust" -- rhythmically pulls you in like a slipstream, sonically transporting and lush, thematically moving.

I agree! I went back to listen to some of Danny's songs and I think "Dust" is the best. "Sands of Time" from Future Games is also a great one! I can't say much about solo albums. I only have Second Chapter.

[chriskisn]

I can't say much about solo albums. I only have Second Chapter.

Correct me if I'm wrong but these are generally considered out of print?

http://rapidshare.com/files/150879120/Hello_There_Big_Boy.rar

http://rapidshare.com/files/150879121/Midnight_in_San_Juan.rar

[slipkid]

One of Kirwan's best songs was done early in Fleetwood Mac, "Without You". It used to be on the U.K. release of "Then Play On". In the states it was released on "English Rose", and later on "The Original Fleetwood Mac" remastered CD.

That song may contain Kirwan's most passionate guitar solo. He was doing an excellent "Love That Burns" imitation of Peter Green. I like all the ones chiliD mentioned, but this song deserves a mention.

I'm also a fly to flypaper when it comes to "Sunny Side of Heaven". You can't teach that talent, and it's why Green, and Kirwan would've been extremely proficient, and successful together had it not been for outside distractions, and problems. Only a handful of bands ever had that top notch quality songwriting talent from two members.

[doodyhead]

my two top favorites from danny are :
Dragonfly
Although The Sun Is Shining

doodyhead

[dino]

I love his stuff on Bare Trees. Yes, "Dust" is wonderful. I love "Child of Mine", which sounds like 3 songs in one, but it works. Not a big fan of the stuff he did while Green was in the band. Most of Kirwan's songs have minimal lyrics, but who said that lyrics are important in pop music? Fleetwood Mac lyrics mostly suck anyway :)

[chriskisn]

Got another one to throw into the mix - Early Morning Come from the Live At BBC album. Quite a stripped down song, you can just imagine Danny sitting there with his guitar recording it. Almost doesn't sound like Fleetwood Mac.

[TrueFaith77]

I have to give some love to Woman of a 1000 Years. It is so beautiful and moving it's astonishing. And it's one of the great first songs in record history because it completely sets the mood for the rest of the album and invites you into its mysteries. Its sense of longing is so huge and spiritual and profound -- it's truly mythic and connects all incarnations of the Mac. Stevie Nicks might even be the band's answer to its call.

[nicepace]

I enjoy every single one of Danny's songs. I even like "WhenYou Say." I can understand why it might not be everyone's favorite but I like the way the "la la la" sections sound. The vocals sound like the lower notes of a string instrument being played by someone in a somber mood, with rich texture and harmony.

Danny is my third favorite FM singer/songwriter, after Christine and Bob.

Is there a handy list anywhere of all the songs Danny did while in the band? I have occasionally thought of burning a CD of all his songs for when I'm in a Danny mood, and I'd hate to miss any. (I've done the same for Chris' and Bob's songs.)

It's only in relatively recent times that I heard "Purple Dancer" for the first time, and wow what a great song that is.

[bretonbanquet]

One of Kirwan's best songs was done early in Fleetwood Mac, "Without You". It used to be on the U.K. release of "Then Play On". In the states it was released on "English Rose", and later on "The Original Fleetwood Mac" remastered CD.

That song may contain Kirwan's most passionate guitar solo. He was doing an excellent "Love That Burns" imitation of Peter Green. I like all the ones chiliD mentioned, but this song deserves a mention.



:nod:

I like every single song he recorded, but I'd agree that his peak was probably '71-'72. "Hello There Big Boy" might be my least favourite album, but the reasons for its shortcomings are pretty clear. That said, "Spaceman" and "Caroline" are awesome.

I sometimes wonder what the "Second Chapter" songs would have been like if Danny had stayed with Fleetwood Mac. The follow-up to "Bare Trees" might well have included songs like "Cascades" and "Silver Streams", as they were written around the time he left, or soon afterwards.

Having just seen the above post, here's a handy list of the songs he either wrote, co-wrote or sang on while with Fleetwood Mac :) If I've forgotten any, I'm sure ChiliD or someone equally switched-on can fill in the gaps.

ALTHOUGH THE SUN IS SHINING - Then Play On
BARE TREES - Bare Trees
BLUES WITH A FEELING - Live at the BBC
CHILD OF MINE - Bare Trees
COMING YOUR WAY - Then Play On
DANNY’S CHANT - Bare Trees
DOWN AT THE CROWN - Madison Blues Demo
DRAGONFLY - Single
DUST - Bare Trees
EARL GRAY - Kiln House
EARLY MORNING COME - Live at the BBC
ENCORE JAM - Live in Boston
FAREWELL - Vaudeville Years (demo of Earl Gray)
JEWEL EYED JUDY - Kiln House
JIGSAW PUZZLE BLUES - B-side
LIKE CRYING - Then Play On
LIKE IT THIS WAY - Blues Jam at Chess etc
LOVE IT SEEMS - Vaudeville Years
LOVING KIND - Live in Boston etc
MIND OF MY OWN - Show-Biz Blues
MY DREAM - Then Play On
OCTOBER JAM 1 & 2 - Vaudeville Years jams
ONE-SIDED LOVE - Live bootlegs
ONE SUNNY DAY - Then Play On / English Rose
ON WE JAM - Live in Boston
ONLY YOU - Live at the BBC
OPEN THE DOOR - Madison Blues (live)
SANDS OF TIME - Future Games
SOMETHING INSIDE OF ME - English Rose
SOMETIMES - Future Games
STATION MAN - Kiln House
SUNNY SIDE OF HEAVEN - Bare Trees
TALK WITH YOU - Blues Jam at Chess etc
TELL ME ALL THE THINGS YOU DO - Kiln House
TELL ME FROM THE START - Vaudeville Years
THE MADGE SESSIONS 1 & 2 - Vaudeville Years jams
THE PURPLE DANCER - B-side of Dragonfly
TRINITY - Bare Trees outtake / 25 Years- The Chain box set
WHAT A SHAME - Future Games
WHEN I SEE MY BABY - Live at the BBC
WHEN YOU SAY - Then Play On
WITHOUT YOU - English Rose / Then Play On
WOMAN OF 1000 YEARS - Future Games
WORLD IN HARMONY - B-side etc
WORLD’S IN A TANGLE - Blues Jam at Chess

This doesn't include of course all the songs written by others where Danny is soloing - I love his work on Christine's "Show Me a Smile" for instance, "Homeward Bound", "Spare Me a Little" etc.

[holidayroad]

Correct me if I'm wrong but these are generally considered out of print?

http://rapidshare.com/files/150879120/Hello_There_Big_Boy.rar

http://rapidshare.com/files/150879121/Midnight_in_San_Juan.rar

Thanks for the links. Yes, I do think both are considered out of print. I bought Second Chapter in the '90s at a used record store.

[chriskisn]

:nod:

I like every single song he recorded, but I'd agree that his peak was probably '71-'72. "Hello There Big Boy" might be my least favourite album, but the reasons for its shortcomings are pretty clear. That said, "Spaceman" and "Caroline" are awesome.

I sometimes wonder what the "Second Chapter" songs would have been like if Danny had stayed with Fleetwood Mac. The follow-up to "Bare Trees" might well have included songs like "Cascades" and "Silver Streams", as they were written around the time he left, or soon afterwards.

Having just seen the above post, here's a handy list of the songs he either wrote, co-wrote or sang on while with Fleetwood Mac :) If I've forgotten any, I'm sure ChiliD or someone equally switched-on can fill in the gaps.

ALTHOUGH THE SUN IS SHINING - Then Play On
BARE TREES - Bare Trees
BLUES WITH A FEELING - Live at the BBC
CHILD OF MINE - Bare Trees
COMING YOUR WAY - Then Play On
DANNY’S CHANT - Bare Trees
DOWN AT THE CROWN - Madison Blues Demo
DRAGONFLY - Single
DUST - Bare Trees
EARL GRAY - Kiln House
EARLY MORNING COME - Live at the BBC
FAREWELL - Vaudeville Years (demo of Earl Gray)
JEWEL EYED JUDY - Kiln House
JIGSAW PUZZLE BLUES - B-side
LIKE CRYING - Then Play On
LIKE IT THIS WAY - Blues Jam at Chess etc
LOVE IT SEEMS - Vaudeville Years
LOVING KIND - Live in Boston etc
MIND OF MY OWN - Show-Biz Blues
MY DREAM - Then Play On
OCTOBER JAM 1 & 2 - Vaudeville Years jams
ONE-SIDED LOVE - Live bootlegs
ONE SUNNY DAY - Then Play On / English Rose
ONLY YOU - Live at the BBC
OPEN THE DOOR - Madison Blues (live)
SANDS OF TIME - Future Games
SOMETHING INSIDE OF ME - English Rose
STATION MAN - Kiln House
SUNNY SIDE OF HEAVEN - Bare Trees
TALK WITH YOU - Blues Jam at Chess etc
TELL ME ALL THE THINGS YOU DO - Kiln House
TELL ME FROM THE START - Vaudeville Years
THE MADGE SESSIONS 1 & 2 - Vaudeville Years jams
THE PURPLE DANCER - B-side of Dragonfly
TRINITY - Bare Trees outtake / 25 Years- The Chain box set
WHAT A SHAME - Future Games
WHEN I SEE MY BABY - Live at the BBC
WHEN YOU SAY - Then Play On
WITHOUT YOU - English Rose / Then Play On
WOMAN OF 1000 YEARS - Future Games
WORLD IN HARMONY - B-side etc
WORLD’S IN A TANGLE - Blues Jam at Chess

This doesn't include of course all the songs written by others where Danny is soloing - I love his work on Christine's "Show Me a Smile" for instance, "Homeward Bound", "Spare Me a Little" etc.

Well the only one I can think of is "Sometimes" from Future Games which I would think is just a typing error of omission on your part. He was also given writing credit on Encore Jam and On We Jam from the Live In Boston albums.

The only one I don't recognise/have from the above list is "One-Sided Love" so shall have to try and find it ;) There are probably a few other bootlegs floating around too I would imagine?

[bretonbanquet]

^^^

Ooops, thanks for that - I knew I'd forget at least one. I've added those three to the list to make it complete-r :)

One-Sided Love is on the "Roughage" bootleg, which somone might post here if they're able to. It's a slow one, a typical Danny number which reminds me a little of "Without You". Not as good though.

[bjornense]

One of Kirwan's best songs was done early in Fleetwood Mac, "Without You". It used to be on the U.K. release of "Then Play On". In the states it was released on "English Rose", and later on "The Original Fleetwood Mac" remastered CD.

That song may contain Kirwan's most passionate guitar solo. He was doing an excellent "Love That Burns" imitation of Peter Green. I like all the ones chiliD mentioned, but this song deserves a mention.

I agree, when the album came out I believed it was PG taking that solo, it was sooo good. Several years later a friend noted the Kirwan vibrato and then I understood it was DK playing. The only live version I know of is from The Golden Circle, Stockholm, late 1968, a killer version which clocks in at 6:16 with a much more aggressive solo than on the album.

[slipkid]

The only one I don't recognise/have from the above list is "One-Sided Love" so shall have to try and find it ;) There are probably a few other bootlegs floating around too I would imagine?

Seek out "Fleetwood Mac Live in Amsterdam 1969".

[chriskisn]

Just went and ripped One-Sided Love off of a YouTube video so am listening to it as I write. :)

Yeah naughty I know but...

[Wouter Vuijk]

The only one I don't recognise/have from the above list is "One-Sided Love" so shall have to try and find it ;) There are probably a few other bootlegs floating around too I would imagine?

Here are (among others) two versions of One Sided Love:
http://rapidshare.com/files/294263325/1969-02-28_Holland.zip

[Wouter Vuijk]

Seek out "Fleetwood Mac Live in Amsterdam 1969".

The Den Haag version, played a few hours earlier, was better IMO :wavey:

[zoork_1]

I enjoy every single one of Danny's songs. I even like "WhenYou Say." I can understand why it might not be everyone's favorite but I like the way ...[...].

I think "When You Say" is beautiful, ...

/z

[chriskisn]

Here are (among others) two versions of One Sided Love:
http://rapidshare.com/files/294263325/1969-02-28_Holland.zip

Brilliant Wouter thank you :)

[slipkid]

I think "When You Say" is beautiful, ...

/z

When I first heard "When You Say" I cringed, but it later grew on me. It has a Brian Wilson vibe. Kirwan's songwriting around this time involved playing the guitar melody to match the vocal notes of a song. It's a simple technique, yet very effective. By Bare Trees his songwriting had grown leaps and bounds. Yet those early songs (especially his blues/rock contributions) should not be ignored. He was only 18 when he joined the band, and penned these songs, unbelievable. I have to keep reminding myself of that fact.

Jimmy McCulloch was 16 when he joined Thunderclap Newman, and he had great guitar chops just like Danny. I find the two guitarists led similar paths, since Danny had a total mental breakdown. In Jimmy's case he later joined Paul McCartney's Wings, and died of a heroin overdose in 1979.

There was a rumor that Mick Jagger wanted Danny Kirwan to replace Brian Jones. I think if Danny was the Stones replacement guitarist instead of Mick Taylor, he too would've died over thirty years ago.

[slipkid]

The Den Haag version, played a few hours earlier, was better IMO :wavey:

Well this is a discovery for me. I'm not sure if the Den Haag version of "One Sided Love" is better, but Freddie King's "San Ho Zay"!?!? That's a pure blues rhythm lockdown, Fleetwood and McVie are Al Jackson Jr., and Donald Duck Dunn! I wish Peter's guitar was as loud as Danny's, because I could tell he was ripping a monster solo. Are there better sounding boots of this song available?



Then there's "Blue Suede Shoes". If this version was performed in the states, the entire band would've been deported within 24 hours. Rap artists were arrested over much less twenty years ago. Jeremy Spencer, you were a true trailblazer! :lol:

[chriskisn]

Then there's "Blue Suede Shoes". If this version was performed in the states, the entire band would've been deported within 24 hours. Rap artists were arrested over much less twenty years ago. Jeremy Spencer, you were a true trailblazer! :lol:

Actually I only heard this song last night for the first time, but it made me think of what Mick said in his book about Harold the dildo (I think that was its name?) and how Jeremy used to stick it out of his fly when on stage. I could almost imagine him strutting around the stage with it and waving it at the crowd during that song.

[aleuzzi]

I love so much of Kirwan's FM work.

It's tough to say which two or three songs I like best because he developed dramatically in the four years with the band. I'll list my favorites by periods:

1968-69:

Something Inside of Me
Like It This Way
Without You

1969-70:

Only You (at BBC live)
When I See My Baby (at BBC Live)
Station Man
Tell Me...

1971-72:
Dragonfly
Sometimes
Trinity (still don't know why this wasn't included on Bare Trees!)
Dust

[chriskisn]

Trinity (still don't know why this wasn't included on Bare Trees!)

You're right, Trinity is such a great DK song, I don't know why it never saw release until the box set

[chriskisn]

Ok, so I thought I'd finally get around to saying this...

What is everyone's obsession with Dust and Woman of 1000 years? I can not tolerate those songs (in fact I can't really tolerate the Bare Trees or Future Games albums at all and never play them). I don't think I've listened to Bare Trees since before I met my wife (which is 11 years ago) and the only redeeming feature of Future Games is Bob's "Lay it All Down"

Give me "Hello There Big Boy" over these songs any day...

[Almost Simon]

Ok, so I thought I'd finally get around to saying this...

What is everyone's obsession with Dust and Woman of 1000 years? I can not tolerate those songs (in fact I can't really tolerate the Bare Trees or Future Games albums at all and never play them). I don't think I've listened to Bare Trees since before I met my wife (which is 11 years ago) and the only redeeming feature of Future Games is Bob's "Lay it All Down"

Give me "Hello There Big Boy" over these songs any day...

I think you prefer the bluesier or heavier tracks. Nothing wrong with that.

I too love those 2 songs. They are more laid back and melodic than his earlier bluesy tunes. Also very mature songs to be written by one so young. Although we do have to remember than Danny didn't write the lyrics for Dust, but its still a beautiful tune.

[Almost Simon]

There was a rumor that Mick Jagger wanted Danny Kirwan to replace Brian Jones. I think if Danny was the Stones replacement guitarist instead of Mick Taylor, he too would've died over thirty years ago.


Never heard that before. It could've happened I guess. He was the right age and had plenty of ability. Only thing is he wouldn't have good a look-in when it came to writing songs. And chances are, just like with Mick Taylor, if he did contribute to songs in the studio he wouldn't have received any credit.

[Almost Simon]

Correct me if I'm wrong but these are generally considered out of print?

http://rapidshare.com/files/150879120/Hello_There_Big_Boy.rar

http://rapidshare.com/files/150879121/Midnight_in_San_Juan.rar

Nice...........i'll download those this evening.

I got the reissue of Second Chapter last year. Not spectacular and I dont expect these two to be classics, but as a fan of Danny's work i'd really like to hear them to get a fuller picture of his whole career. :nod:

[Almost Simon]

Trinity (still don't know why this wasn't included on Bare Trees!)


Its very good and maybe would've sat better on the album than 'Danny's Chant.'

[Almost Simon]

Just in case they haven't been listed before, here's the Rupert Brooke's poem 'Dust' from where Danny obtained the lyric's:


Dust
by Rupert Brooke (1887-1915)
When the white flame in us is gone,
And we that lost the world's delight
Stiffen in darkness, left alone
To crumble in our separate night;

When your swift hair is quiet in death,
And through the lips corruption thrust
Has stilled the labour of my breath---
When we are dust, when we are dust!---
Not dead, not undesirous yet,
Still sentient, still unsatisfied,
We'll ride the air, and shine, and flit,
Around the places where we died,

And dance as dust before the sun,
And light of foot, and unconfined,
Hurry from road to road, and run
About the errands of the wind.

And every mote, on earth or air,
Will speed and gleam, down later days,
And like a secret pilgrim fare
By eager and invisible ways,

Nor ever rest, nor ever lie,
Till, beyond thinking, out of view,
One mote of all the dust that's I
Shall meet one atom that was you.

Then in some garden hushed from wind,
Warm in a sunset's afterglow,
The lovers in the flowers will find
A sweet and strange unquiet grow

Upon the peace; and, past desiring,
So high a beauty in the air,
And such a light, and such a quiring,
And such a radiant ecstasy there,

They'll know not if it's fire, or dew,
Or out of earth, or in the height,
Singing, or flame, or scent, or hue,
Or two that pass, in light, to light,

Out of the garden, higher, higher. . . .
But in that instant they shall learn
The shattering ecstasy of our fire,
And the weak passionless hearts will burn

And faint in that amazing glow,
Until the darkness close above;
And they will know---poor fools, they'll know!---
One moment, what it is to love.

[chriskisn]

Never heard that before. It could've happened I guess. He was the right age and had plenty of ability. Only thing is he wouldn't have good a look-in when it came to writing songs. And chances are, just like with Mick Taylor, if he did contribute to songs in the studio he wouldn't have received any credit.

From the sleevenotes to Ram Jam City:

"As happenstance would have it, a couple of years after Danny Kirwan left Fleetwood Mac, Mick Taylor quit the Rolling Stones. By this time Kirwan happily was away from the limelight, and busily putting together material for his debut solo album, Second Chapter. One day his wife at the time, Clare, answered the phone at their Essex home. It was the Rolling Stones office. Could they speak to Danny.

As fate would have it, he was up in London for the day. Clare gave them another contact number but the guitarist wasn't there either.

They didn't ring again..."

[chriskisn]

Nice...........i'll download those this evening.

I got the reissue of Second Chapter last year. Not spectacular and I dont expect these two to be classics, but as a fan of Danny's work i'd really like to hear them to get a fuller picture of his whole career. :nod:

Actually Midnight in San Juan is quite good (can't say they same for Hello There Big Boy)

[Almost Simon]

From the sleevenotes to Ram Jam City:

"As happenstance would have it, a couple of years after Danny Kirwan left Fleetwood Mac, Mick Taylor quit the Rolling Stones. By this time Kirwan happily was away from the limelight, and busily putting together material for his debut solo album, Second Chapter. One day his wife at the time, Clare, answered the phone at their Essex home. It was the Rolling Stones office. Could they speak to Danny.

As fate would have it, he was up in London for the day. Clare gave them another contact number but the guitarist wasn't there either.

They didn't ring again..."

Well, well, well. Although to be fair, the Stones did audition many guitarists before deciding on Ron Wood, but being English he would've certainly been near the top of the list. Just depends on if he'd actually want to step back into the limelight to that extent??

[chriskisn]

There was a rumor that Mick Jagger wanted Danny Kirwan to replace Brian Jones. I think if Danny was the Stones replacement guitarist instead of Mick Taylor, he too would've died over thirty years ago.

Not that Danny has actually had much of a life in the past thirty years...

[Almost Simon]

Not that Danny has actually had much of a life in the past thirty years...

I had always thought that Danny's problems were caused solely by alcohol and him being uncomfortable in the spotlight.................but this thread prompted me to go back and look up a few writings and they mention that Danny was with Peter Green in Munich when they took LSD. That would explain things better. Cant see why I didnt make that connection before. Maybe because most reviews of the Munich Incident concentrate on the affect it had on Peter, not Danny.

Its just a shame that Danny isnt playing at all. Good to see that Peter and Jeremy are still playing though.

[TrueFaith77]

Actually Midnight in San Juan is quite good (can't say they same for Hello There Big Boy)

I like all three solo albums, but Hello There Big Boy is my favorite.

[chriskisn]

I like all three solo albums, but Hello There Big Boy is my favorite.

It is interesting isn't it, how an album that some of us think is poor is the favourite of someone else. I think that perhaps the greatest thing about FM if you include all of the solo careers of the various members is that there is really someone for everyone.

[stubbie7]

Seems like for me my favorite Danny song is the one I am listening to at the moment. I am rather partial to the Bare Trees/Future Games era, however. And yet, lately, I think my favorite thing by Danny is Something Inside of Me from Shrine 69. His vocals are great and, unless I am wrong and the lead is Peter, the guitar is amazing. Incredible sustain.

Rick

[chiliD]

Jimmy McCulloch was 16 when he joined Thunderclap Newman, and he had great guitar chops just like Danny. I find the two guitarists led similar paths, since Danny had a total mental breakdown. In Jimmy's case he later joined Paul McCartney's Wings, and died of a heroin overdose in 1979.

Interesting that you mention Jimmy McCulloch...I've always thought that Danny (post-FMac) would've been a perfect choice as Wings guitarist. Some of his songwriting on Midnight In San Juan has a very "Wings"-ish feel...even his reggae version of "Let It Be" sounds like a Wings track.

There was a rumor that Mick Jagger wanted Danny Kirwan to replace Brian Jones. I think if Danny was the Stones replacement guitarist instead of Mick Taylor, he too would've died over thirty years ago.

I don't recall ever reading that....at least not at that point when Brian was dumped. Although, I recall Danny's name being mentioned by Jagger a few years down the road, when searching for Mick Taylor's replacement (if you recall, Ron Wood wasn't their first choice...it took 'em quite a while to choose. They'd considered Jeff Beck, Rory Gallagher, Wayne Perkins among quite a few others).

OOOPS...I missed this exchange when I was reading through the thread...sorry about that, guys:

From the sleevenotes to Ram Jam City:

"As happenstance would have it, a couple of years after Danny Kirwan left Fleetwood Mac, Mick Taylor quit the Rolling Stones. By this time Kirwan happily was away from the limelight, and busily putting together material for his debut solo album, Second Chapter. One day his wife at the time, Clare, answered the phone at their Essex home. It was the Rolling Stones office. Could they speak to Danny.

As fate would have it, he was up in London for the day. Clare gave them another contact number but the guitarist wasn't there either.

They didn't ring again..."

Well, well, well. Although to be fair, the Stones did audition many guitarists before deciding on Ron Wood, but being English he would've certainly been near the top of the list. Just depends on if he'd actually want to step back into the limelight to that extent??

[bretonbanquet]

Interesting that you mention Jimmy McCulloch...I've always thought that Danny (post-FMac) would've been a perfect choice as Wings guitarist. Some of his songwriting on Midnight In San Juan has a very "Wings"-ish feel...even his reggae version of "Let It Be" sounds like a Wings track.


Danny was a big McCartney fan and I agree he would have been a perfect fit for Wings, at least in the studio. There still would have been that whole playing live problem though :(

[Wouter Vuijk]

Seems like for me my favorite Danny song is the one I am listening to at the moment. I am rather partial to the Bare Trees/Future Games era, however. And yet, lately, I think my favorite thing by Danny is Something Inside of Me from Shrine 69. His vocals are great and, unless I am wrong and the lead is Peter, the guitar is amazing. Incredible sustain.

Rick
The lead is definitely Danny himself: the typical vibrato, the licks, the way the sustains are cut off. Need I say more. :cool:

[WithoutYou]

I had to find a Danny Kirwan topic to post on, because I am going through a Kirwan kick right now listening to everything of his that I have my hands on.

The only solo record I have is Hello there big boy! Which I found at a record store in Ann Arbor, which I was very surprised to find. Anyways I was wondering if One-sided love was a danny kirwan original and what the lyrics were.

[holidayroad]

I have Second Chapter and need to get the other solos. I like Danny better than Jeremy and Peter (as a singer). I know some people won't agree with that!!

[zoork_1]

I have Second Chapter and need to get the other solos. I like Danny better than Jeremy and Peter (as a singer). I know some people won't agree with that!!

He was a great player (and singer) - College of Distributive Trade 1969 as well as one of the shows spring 1970' s (can't remember which one right now) are essential...

/z

[Wouter Vuijk]

I had to find a Danny Kirwan topic to post on, because I am going through a Kirwan kick right now listening to everything of his that I have my hands on.

The only solo record I have is Hello there big boy! Which I found at a record store in Ann Arbor, which I was very surprised to find. Anyways I was wondering if One-sided love was a danny kirwan original and what the lyrics were.
Don'know if Danny wrote the song (Jeremy, if you read this, any clues?), sadly it has never been published on an official album.
Anyway, here are the lyrics (quite simple):

One sided love, is the outcome of you and me
One sided love, is the outcome of you and me
I do all the giving, while you're still around, so contentedly

One day you say you love me,
The next day you ever wanna know
I can see you laughing,
If you love me, please let it show
One sided love, is the outcome of you and me
I do all the giving, while you're still around, so contentedly

Guitarsolo

One sided love, is the outcome of you and me
One sided love, is the outcome of you and me
I do all the giving, while you're still around, so contentedly
While you're still around, so contentedly.
:)

[Cussion]

I don't have the "Ram Jam City" CD. Is there some good '70s photos of Danny in the booklet?

[chriskisn]

I don't have the "Ram Jam City" CD. Is there some good '70s photos of Danny in the booklet?

No. There are basically no photos to speak of...

[moon]

Hi! Last night I listened to the Second Chapter album, just to know something about Danny's solo work. Wow, I still can't believe how he changed! Sounded more like Bread or Dr. Hook than the Danny of Fleetwood Mac.
I really loved Odds & Ends, Hot Summer Day, Second Chapter, and Best Girl in the World, and I think Lovely Days and Cascades have a little FM sound. I know maybe I'm wrong! I want to read your opinions about this album.
So, I'll start my search for more...
Regards!

[LesPaul7]

I love Second Chapter as well. Very beautiful arrangements and tasteful guitar playing, not to mention a great voice. Midnight in San Juan is interesting. It sounds like Kirwan got himself a backing band and played synth all over it too. Hello There Big Boy sounds more like the Buckingham/Nicks Fleetwood Mac to me. I don't know how much Kirwan actually played on this record due to his declining health, but his voice is still pretty solid.

[THD]

Maybe because most reviews of the Munich Incident concentrate on the affect it had on Peter, not Danny.



At the time ,or shortly after ,the story circulating was definitely that only Peter had been there ,that he had been" kidnapped" and because he was on his own they were able to dose him with damaging amounts of , and /or defective , LSD and he was never the same again . Therefore ,the Peter Green Man of The World documentary was a complete revelation ! By his own account,Peter enjoyed it, and thought he made some of the best music ever (Not Jeremy's view in the doc!) And it turns out Danny was there too ,and according to Jeremy ( in one version of the doct at least) they- he and Mick and others -went to "rescue" them and both Danny and Peter had facial paralysis symptoms (indicating stroke or similar )in the car on the way back!

[THD]

Just in case they haven't been listed before, here's the Rupert Brooke's poem 'Dust' from where Danny obtained the lyric's:


Dust
by Rupert Brooke (1887-1915)
[B]When the white flame in us is gone,
And we that lost the world's delight
Stiffen in darkness, left alone
To crumble in our separate night;



Now ,I don't claim to be the authority on every pop/ rock song ever composed .but Danny must be pretty unique in setting established poems to music,especially those written some generations previously ,in a rock group context , mustn't he ? And so young to be doing it! You could understand a wise 50 year old with some experience of life doing it So lets give him credit for this .

[THD]

I think if Danny was the Stones replacement guitarist instead of Mick Taylor, he too would've died over thirty years ago.

I think you are very right Slipkid I don't think being in the Stones did any favours for Mick Taylor's health or general well being (he is still an excellent guitarist though ! )

[ejb1969]

My favorites of Danny's songs are:

1. Station Man
2. Purple Dancer
3. Jewel Eyed Judy

[slipkid]

At the time ,or shortly after ,the story circulating was definitely that only Peter had been there ,that he had been" kidnapped" and because he was on his own they were able to dose him with damaging amounts of , and /or defective , LSD and he was never the same again . Therefore ,the Peter Green Man of The World documentary was a complete revelation ! By his own account,Peter enjoyed it, and thought he made some of the best music ever (Not Jeremy's view in the doc!) And it turns out Danny was there too ,and according to Jeremy ( in one version of the doct at least) they- he and Mick and others -went to "rescue" them and both Danny and Peter had facial paralysis symptoms (indicating stroke or similar )in the car on the way back!

The Munich story is complete BS. If Green really went mental in Munich 3/70, *****WHY DID FLEETWOOD MAC ASK PETER GREEN BACK TO FILL IN FOR JEREMY SPENCER ELEVEN MONTHS LATER?***** I've watched all the Syd Barrett documentaries. Syd Barrett was GONE after a weekend with acid mid 1967. Peter Green was not that person. Peter Green was just sick of being a rock star. The music Spencer heard in Munich in the basement was something called "Krautrock", German progressive rock music. That's why Green after Munich wanted to solo with a wah pedal. Not that he was crazy, he LIKED IT!! Did Green eventually break down mentally? YES, but it wasn't when he was with FM. Mick Fleetwood has lied for years to protect his legacy. It all came down to Peter Green wanting to give away a percentage of their earnings to charity (in Mick Fleetwood's mind....PG is crazy). Mick Fleetwood said no. Peter Green decided it was time to leave.

Danny Kirwan's story is more like Jimmy McCollough, except Danny just drank. Jimmy OD'd on heroin. That would've been Kirwan's fate had he chose the Rolling Stones in 1969 vs. FM. While Danny Kirwan is living from hostel to hostel in Europe, Jimmy McCollough died in 1979 at the age of 26. Danny still wanders Europe.

[aleuzzi]

While Danny Kirwan is living from hostel to hostel in Europe, Jimmy McCollough died in 1979 at the age of 26. Danny still wanders Europe.

Is Danny traveling through Europe? I thought he was living in a sort of half-way house in England. Can you tell me what you know? I'm hoping if he is wandering through Europe that he is enjoying himself.

[chiliD]

Danny Kirwan's story is more like Jimmy McCollough, except Danny just drank. Jimmy OD'd on heroin. That would've been Kirwan's fate had he chose the Rolling Stones in 1969 vs. FM. While Danny Kirwan is living from hostel to hostel in Europe, Jimmy McCollough died in 1979 at the age of 26. Danny still wanders Europe.

Speaking of Jimmy McColloch, I've always thought (after hearing Danny's first 2 solo albums) that he would've been the perfect lead guitarist for Wings. Of course, it wouldn't have been all that democratic, but Danny probably would've gotten at least ONE song per album (like Denny Laine got)...I can definitely hear a LOT of Wings (and Beatles) influence in his song "I Can Tell" from Midnight In San Juan and most of Second Chapter is quite "McCartney-esque". He & Paul may have gotten to be a fairly good songwriting team...of course nothing tops Lennon/McCartney, but McCartney/Kirwan may have been pretty darned good. :nod:

[THD]

He & Paul may have gotten to be a fairly good songwriting team...of course nothing tops Lennon/McCartney, but McCartney/Kirwan may have been pretty darned good. :nod:


Except that after the She Loves You period they pretty much wrote individually It's pretty much the case of who ever sings the lead vocal wrote it .Which is why Macca gets upset when people credit a song that he wrote to Lennon . He rarely performs a Lennon song in any of his concerts.

[becca]

Re: acid casualties... Peter seems pretty coherent and often very sly in the great Man Of the World doc. I loved the closing bit about being a better musician than Sooty though maybe not with Sweep!

The Munich commune visit makes a great spooky story, but seems like Peter was uncomfortable with fame and fortune before then, and Danny took a few years more to suddenly have been effected and then still played great and created original material post FM. I always wondered if Yes might have been a great fit for Danny? I'd definitely rate him as being as good as Peter Banks (r.i.p.) or Steve Howe, two other favorites of mine.

Anyway, I've met musicians claiming over a hundred acid trips who are totally coherent and sharp (into their '60s anyway). :]

I really think Syd was going to be how he was regardless, just a question of degree perhaps.

[sharksfan2000]

Not sure whether this has been posted here before, but I happened to spot the comment below (from about a year ago) about Danny Kirwan on this YouTube clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpULSQyfhUQ

I did some agency work cooking at the centre in London where he is last month.

Had a little chat with him,he's well looked after,eats well and apparently plays his guitar up in his flat for his own enjoyment.

Good to hear...of course its still sad in the big picture but it may be about the best we can hope for him these days.

[slipkid]

Re: acid casualties... Peter seems pretty coherent and often very sly in the great Man Of the World doc. I loved the closing bit about being a better musician than Sooty though maybe not with Sweep!

The Munich commune visit makes a great spooky story, but seems like Peter was uncomfortable with fame and fortune before then, and Danny took a few years more to suddenly have been effected and then still played great and created original material post FM. I always wondered if Yes might have been a great fit for Danny? I'd definitely rate him as being as good as Peter Banks (r.i.p.) or Steve Howe, two other favorites of mine.

Anyway, I've met musicians claiming over a hundred acid trips who are totally coherent and sharp (into their '60s anyway). :]

I really think Syd was going to be how he was regardless, just a question of degree perhaps.


You're too good to be true! Stop repeating what I've typed the last five years. Wow!

[slipkid]

You're too good to be true! Stop repeating what I've typed the last five years. Wow! You have to admit (FBI) I found the best UK blues guitarist in the history of music.

[slipkid]

Re: acid casualties... Peter seems pretty coherent and often very sly in the great Man Of the World doc. I loved the closing bit about being a better musician than Sooty though maybe not with Sweep!

The Munich commune visit makes a great spooky story, but seems like Peter was uncomfortable with fame and fortune before then, and Danny took a few years more to suddenly have been effected and then still played great and created original material post FM. I always wondered if Yes might have been a great fit for Danny? I'd definitely rate him as being as good as Peter Banks (r.i.p.) or Steve Howe, two other favorites of mine.

Anyway, I've met musicians claiming over a hundred acid trips who are totally coherent and sharp (into their '60s anyway). :]

I really think Syd was going to be how he was regardless, just a question of degree perhaps.

WHO ARE YOU!?!? I either want to know you as a real person, or I don't care, you type the right things so I'm going to a super-duper trap. I wish Becca was a real person, not an FBI personoa.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul4hxJQIdZk

[becca]

As Denny Doherty used to say... Hah?

Join Date: Jul 2002

blog: http://hippiesstolemyblog.blogspot.com/

I may actually have said (okay typed) some things first but I just don't keep track much. Did I champion the Derelict track first, hoo nose, did I bring up liking Satie here before anyone, hoo kares. I'm off line for various stretches traveling or creating or something else. :sorry:

I do know I was a fanatic for Danny Kirwan and Peter Green before I ever saw the Penguin/Ledge website though. :nod:

I heard from someone in the know that Danny was given a guitar once and didn't want it and then later was able to play for himself. It was nice to have heard but don't know about the Youtube quote. Nice also if so! Thank you for so much truly beautiful music Danny!

[LesPaul7]

I remember reading a Danny Kirwan interview online from around 1970 where he was talking about Green leaving and some rumors about Green and Syd Barrett starting a new band and flying in fancy planes while the Mac had to take vans on the road. I've searched but I can't seem to find it anywhere and I know I'm not crazy!

[Wouter Vuijk]

I remember reading a Danny Kirwan interview online from around 1970 where he was talking about Green leaving and some rumors about Green and Syd Barrett starting a new band and flying in fancy planes while the Mac had to take vans on the road. I've searched but I can't seem to find it anywhere and I know I'm not crazy!

Interesting! Though I can hardly believe an online interview (not back in 1970, that is) would have been possible. I suppose you mean that somewhere online on the internet you read the interview. It would really be nice if you could find it again. Syd and Peter.... what an amazing duo that would have been. Keep searching, I am really desperate to know how Pete and Syd thought it would have worked. :nod:

[LesPaul7]

Yes, of course it would have been transcribed online. The more I think of it the more I'm thinking maybe it was an excerpt from the book Strange Brew. I'll have to check. I was looking online and I couldn't find anything.

[THE HORNET 81]

Hi everyone,my names Sam and am new to the forum.
I joined especially to reply to this thread as I'm the guy a couple of years back who put the youtube comment up of working where Danny Now lives.
I worked for alot of Chef Agencys in London and one day go the call to cover for a home for alcoholics in South London for a week.
When I got there it was an assortment of interesting characters,most of them lovely and interesting in their own way(one an ex MP.one an Ex Teacher)untill they'd had a few then they turned like most Alcoholics do!
Was preparing Lunch one day and this particular Man looked familiar to me but I didn't know where.
As I was talking to a Jamaican member of staff she enlightened me on the variety of residents here
"Oh one used to be in big group,I mean big group in 1970s.I mean we look him up on internet and he were huge!"
"Ummm what Band was that?" I asked.
"Oh I never heard of them but you might,Fleetwood Mac?"
Then the Penny dropped and I asked her what his name was to which she replied "Danny,Danny Kirwan"
Well being a huge fan of the original FM and of Green and Kirwan I was dumbstruck to realise it was him.
After being there a week I realised he was well looked after,went out when he felt like it on day trips with the other residents and ate very very well.
I feel like I teased him one day when I brought in a blues cd and put it on in the kitchen and he walked in and said "Now,I like this mate!"
Like alot of reports on him,he does have a guitar and plays it when he feels like it but no big comeback is ever gonna happen soon,he's just too vulnerable.
Before I left I said to him people out there had alot of love for him to which he smiled then walked away,I'd hate for him to pass away one day not knowing the huge ammount of respect he has for him.

[holidayroad]

Sam, thanks so much for this information! :thumbsup:





Before I left I said to him people out there had alot of love for him to which he smiled then walked away,I'd hate for him to pass away one day not knowing the huge ammount of respect he has for him.


I feel the same way. I hope Danny somehow does realize what an influence he has had on fans and how much we have enjoyed his talent.

[becca]

Thank you for passing this experience on Sam! :woohoo:

[ejb1969]

Sam, your news brings me a great relief. I loved Danny's playing and often wondered about his quality of life.

Welcome to The Ledge!

[Wouter Vuijk]

Hi everyone,my names Sam and am new to the forum.
I joined especially to reply to this thread as I'm the guy a couple of years back who put the youtube comment up of working where Danny Now lives.
I worked for alot of Chef Agencys in London and one day go the call to cover for a home for alcoholics in South London for a week.
When I got there it was an assortment of interesting characters,most of them lovely and interesting in their own way(one an ex MP.one an Ex Teacher)untill they'd had a few then they turned like most Alcoholics do!
Was preparing Lunch one day and this particular Man looked familiar to me but I didn't know where.
As I was talking to a Jamaican member of staff she enlightened me on the variety of residents here
"Oh one used to be in big group,I mean big group in 1970s.I mean we look him up on internet and he were huge!"
"Ummm what Band was that?" I asked.
"Oh I never heard of them but you might,Fleetwood Mac?"
Then the Penny dropped and I asked her what his name was to which she replied "Danny,Danny Kirwan"
Well being a huge fan of the original FM and of Green and Kirwan I was dumbstruck to realise it was him.
After being there a week I realised he was well looked after,went out when he felt like it on day trips with the other residents and ate very very well.
I feel like I teased him one day when I brought in a blues cd and put it on in the kitchen and he walked in and said "Now,I like this mate!"
Like alot of reports on him,he does have a guitar and plays it when he feels like it but no big comeback is ever gonna happen soon,he's just too vulnerable.
Before I left I said to him people out there had alot of love for him to which he smiled then walked away,I'd hate for him to pass away one day not knowing the huge ammount of respect he has for him.
Ahem, welcome Sam. However, I'm quite sure I've read this story here on The Ledge before. Can't recall when, must have been at least a year ago.
:confused:

[michelej1]

Here's an article and thread about Danny that did mention him being in a care facility from 2005.

http://www.ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=17701&highlight=50th+danny

[THE HORNET 81]

Ahem, welcome Sam. However, I'm quite sure I've read this story here on The Ledge before. Can't recall when, must have been at least a year ago.
:confused:

Not from me,only just joined the other week.

[Wouter Vuijk]

Not from me,only just joined the other week.

Oh well. But thanks anyway, it was nice to read your recollection :nod:.

[FuzzyPlum]

Remembering Danny Kirwan - an interview with James Ingham

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5obwmkdzD9c


I don't know whether a link has been posted to this youtube discussion before, but I just came across it and found it really interesting.
James- I don't know whether you are a member of The Ledge, but I just wanted to say I found this really interesting. Well worth 48 minutes of anyone's time if they have any interest in Danny.

[Mr Scarrott]

Thanks Fuzzy, this is a really good interview. James has some interesting stories about meeting both Peter and Danny. Haunting, heartbreaking stuff.

[dougl]

Thanks Fuzzy!