John's Playing

[michelej1]

A few weeks ago I was trying to remember what I'd read what John said about his playing, but I wasn't very good at doing so. Here's the actual quote:

He said with Chris gone,

I had to think more. That hurt. I was just getting used to playing against the guitar and drums without her keyboard fill. I used to play off Chris' left hand, which was playing piano.

Also, since we'd been talking about the old story about his retort to Peter Green, this caught my eye.

I have a 14-year-old in school and a Beverly Hills Jewish American Princess wife. But, no, it's not for the money. You know, this is what I do. I can't do anything else except for a few hobbies like fishing. I've been on the road since I was 16.

[jbrownsjr]

You can hear those two interacting in many live situations...

Rhiannon (Dance vers).. right before dreams.. unwinds... Chris lays down some cool riff with sustained foundation... and John puts down a 'bump bump, bump bump, bump bump'

Sisters of the Moon (Mirage)... opening segment where Chris is pumping some really low keyboards parts and john is accenting them ...

I think her keyboard choices on this SOTM version is pretty amazing... and under-rated.. or not heard at all....

MAKES ME MAD AS HELL !!!

[jenniferuk]

Thanks for posting. While reading that PG discussion I thought of the above quote from John but I couldn't recall where I'd read it. Thanks for digging it up.

[David]

I wish I knew what John meant by that. "play off Christine's left hand"
Can any of you tell me what John meant?

[michelej1]

I wish I knew what John meant by that. "play off Christine's left hand"
Can any of you tell me what John meant?

Of course, you would be the one to explain it.

But, not knowing, I was just thinking that he meant Chris is doing the melody with her right hand and the supporting chords with her left and maybe he was playing bass in time with her chords.

I don't know.

Michele

[David]

But, not knowing, I was just thinking that he meant Chris is doing the melody with her right hand and the supporting chords with her left and maybe he was playing bass in time with her chords.

I don't know.That's as good a guess as I would have, believe me.

But if John is timing according to Chris & Chris is timing according to John, someone in the band had damn well better time according to the drummer! :mad:

[jbrownsjr]

That's as good a guess as I would have, believe me.

But if John is timing according to Chris & Chris is timing according to John, someone in the band had damn well better time according to the drummer! :mad:

I think Chris is playing off Mick.. and John off Chris...

Link the chain David...

And yes I believe John's saying he's playing off CMs bass riffs... (left hand)

[nicepace]

And yes I believe John's saying he's playing off CMs bass riffs... (left hand)

I recall reading in an interview that Christine said she considers herself part of the rhythm section. So this all makes some sort of intuitive sense.

I wish that musicians would explain what they mean in more detail when they make comments like this. I hack around on the guitar a little but I don't consider myself a musician, and I enjoy understanding more about the way the musical process works.

I also especially enjoy hearing any sort of remark that gives credit to Christine's musicianship, since her skill as a keyboard player is so often overlooked.

[michelej1]

I recall reading in an interview that Christine said she considers herself part of the rhythm section. So this all makes some sort of intuitive sense.



Yes, she talked about perceiving herself as a part of the rhythm section on the Best Buy cd too.

Michele

[David]

Yes, she talked about perceiving herself as a part of the rhythm section on the Best Buy cd too.But I always assumed that what she meant was that she played rhythm motives rather than grandly orchestrated & arpeggiated figures. The latter typically span multiple octaves & draw attention (by complementing & balancing) to the melodic lines of the lead vocal with a swelling & surging rubato, whereas the former emphasizes triads & two-note chords played (unbroken) in metronomic fashion, with left & right hand close together, & figures propelled by the bass & drums rather than by the singer.

I always cite Angel as an example because it's the easiest for everyone to hear the role the keyboard plays. Compare Christine's arrangement of it with Roy Bittan's arrangement of it (for Stevie's solo renditions).

But this idea that John is timing according to Christine's left hand is odd to me. It makes more sense the other way round. John has to punch in Mick's "pocket," not in Christine's. Color me baffled.

If Steve MacDougall is around, maybe he can clarify. He plays bass.

[michelej1]

But I always assumed that what she meant was that she played rhythm motives rather than grandly orchestrated & arpeggiated figures.

And I always thought that part of what she was doing was giving us a window into her psychological approach, saying, "Whether I am or not, I don't think of myself as one of the 3 front people."

[nicepace]

And I always thought that part of what she was doing was giving us a window into her psychological approach, saying, "Whether I am or not, I don't think of myself as one of the 3 front people."

I don't think this is what she was saying at all. I'm sure Chris thought of herself as one of the three frontpeople. She may not have had the flashy star disposition like the other two lead vocalists, but she couldn't possibly have been that modest.

I think a more accurate interpretation is that she was saying that she didn't consider her keyboards to be a lead instrument. This would be more accurate. With rare exceptions, Chris seldom played a solo on her keyboards. (I wish she had.)

[michelej1]

I don't think this is what she was saying at all.


Oh, I'm pretty certain that's what she meant in part. Especially since with regard to that comment, she elaborated that she, John and Mick formed the bed on which Lindsey could roll around and do whatever he wanted.

I know that she was one of the three front people and she knows that she was. She also knows that she penned the bands most popular songs. So, it's not a question of modesty or seeing herself in the back row. Still, I think she was saying that being a star or showman is not how she sees herself, even when alone on the stage, as on Songbird.

Michele

[michelej1]

Looking for the rhythm talk, these are other comments that indicate what I was trying to say.

After the Dance: "I've been trying to put together a solo album, but I don't regard myself as a solo artist. I don't enjoy that kind of attention. I like my place behind the keyboards. In that regard, I struggle with a solo career."

Just Before Rumours: "Stevie's a show woman and she loves it. I'm the keyboard player, which keeps me out of the limelight. I enjoy it because I'm not a extrovert."

Of course, by saying she's part of the rhythm section, I think she means that she is laying a musical foundation which creates a spring board for everything else, but I also think she means, "Oh, don't stop and pay attention to me. I'm just part of the crew. Nothing to see here."

Best Buy CD: I don't like to be the sole source of interest.


Best Buy CD: "I always regard myself somewhat as being more the rhythm section, if anything. I always kind of feel that I'm linked to John and Mick closer than I am to the front line, the singers. Because I always feel that I'm playing with John and Mick very tightly, because I'm more a rhythm player than a -- I'm not forever doing glitzes [not sure of the word she used] and twinkly bits and solo things. I'm a pretty solid player. So, I'm playing with John and Mick pretty much constantly and let Lindsey do all the -- you know -- we provide the bed on which Lindsey can pretty much do what he wants."

[David]

After the Dance: "I've been trying to put together a solo album, but I don't regard myself as a solo artist. I don't enjoy that kind of attention. I like my place behind the keyboards. In that regard, I struggle with a solo career." For those of us who saw a 1984 solo show, this makes much sense. Christine doesn't command her spotlight on a stage, & I can't think of a time she ever did. She merely team-plays. She doesn't cower & hide, either, but she doesn't mug under a spotlight.

I see her as neither particularly extroverted nor particularly introverted.

[michelej1]

I see her as neither particularly extroverted nor particularly introverted.

After thinking about the comments you relayed to us regarding a view of each band member a couple of weeks ago, it made me go look for an interview with her where she said that sometimes she was thought of as snobbish or stuck up, when in reality it was just shyness.


I have this mask of aloofness, which really isn't aloofness, but shyness. Once you get over that, I'm easy to know. I have a reputation as the easiest member of Fleetwood Mac to know. But people have told me they thought I was stuck up. It's a kind of protective shell I have, English reserve or whatever.

Michele

[SteveMacD]

If Steve MacDougall is around, maybe he can clarify. He plays bass.
I lurk a bit, still...

John probably "played off of the left hand" (aka paid attention to when the keyboardist was playing the bass keys) to create a groove.

If you think about it, he was in the best possible spot for a bassist. He could pay attention to the keyboardist AND the guitarists from where he was positioned on the stage. Recently, when my band was going through practice, it was decided that I would be on the right side of the stage (like Bob, Lindsey, et. al.) by the bassist and lead guitarist because they were both looking at what I was doing in terms of chording.

[David]

I lurk a bit, still...Well, don't go away entirely. There are too many people flying the coop.

John probably "played off of the left hand" (aka paid attention to when the keyboardist was playing the bass keys) to create a groove.But Christine didn't play bass lines. (It's rude -- & dangerous -- for keyboard players to double the bass line.) What was John relying on her for? Her rhythm was bass-like, but doesn't experienced John rely on his own rhythm (coupled with that of Mick Fleetwood)?

If you think about it, he was in the best possible spot for a bassist. He could pay attention to the keyboardist AND the guitarists from where he was positioned on the stage. Recently, when my band was going through practice, it was decided that I would be on the right side of the stage (like Bob, Lindsey, et. al.) by the bassist and lead guitarist because they were both looking at what I was doing in terms of chording.Now please note that I'm not saying that a bassist has no business observing the keyboard player, because I'm not. I'm only saying that I am confused about how John was using Christine's left hand.

I think you guys should just call me insane & ignore me.

[michelej1]

I'm only saying that I am confused about how John was using Christine's left hand.



That's what she said.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

I think you guys should just call me insane & ignore me.

I've tried for so many years.. lol...but you keep making good points... :lol: