Penguin

[nailatixela]

I just got this CD today - the last of the pre rumours albums that I needed. I forgot about it and didn't get around to getting it for a while. Thought we could talk about the album a little.

I love Remember Me...my favorite by Christine on this album. I like all her tunes on this though - wish she had more space on the record.

This might be my least favorite album for Bob Welch stuff though...or I may just need to get time to get into his stuff more. Revelation is my fav. of his for now.

I love the album ending with Caught in the Rain...

Dave Walker wise - I HATE Road Runner. I really hate it. Might be the worst song under the Fleetwood Mac title. The vocal just isn't FM to me. On the other hand, I LOVE The Derelict. Simple song but great lyrics. Maybe my favorite on the album. I'm getting the feeling that it might not be too popular though. :o

Compared to it's peers, I like it better than Bare Trees. However I don't care for Kirwan very much so that might be why. Not as good as MTM, and not as good as Heroes, but close. It's a good album but has it's weak spots. IMO - as good as Future Games. Chris shines more on this CD than she did on Future Games. Worth many listens for sure though.

What are your thoughts on the album?

[sjpdg]

We're all entitled to our opinion.

This IMHO has got to be the worst FM album in history, bar none! I would agree with you that Christine's contributions are clearly the best on the album though, without question.

I know Chriskin is going to chime in here at some point and he and I have a very friendly back and forth going about Dave Walker, so he'll be expecting my comments on this. I absolutely can't stand either "The Derelict" and "Roadrunner". Just can't hardly stand to have them on the stereo. Sorry. No offense meant to anyone but I just can't. Neither sound like FM songs to me at all. I would agree that Bob sounded better on other FM albums as well.

So, I'm sure you can tell that this is my least favourite FM album. But, I'm sure others have different opinions and, hey, that's cool with me.

[chriskisn]

I know Chriskin is going to chime in here at some point and he and I have a very friendly back and forth going about Dave Walker, so he'll be expecting my comments on this. I absolutely can't stand either "The Derelict" and "Roadrunner". Just can't hardly stand to have them on the stereo. Sorry. No offense meant to anyone but I just can't. Neither sound like FM songs to me at all.

Damn I hate being so predictable... :mad: :laugh:

The Derelict for those who don't know is one of my favourite FM songs, and I'm a big DW fan... While I can somewhat understand that (I'm A) Roadrunner isn't for everyone, I do think that the Derelict is just fantastic. There is a reason they promote him these days as Dave "The Voice" Walker.

Dissatisfied, Revelation, and of course The Derelict are the standout tracks. These three middle period albums (along with Heroes and Mystery) are more than equal to what came later.



Oh and totally beside the point - there is an unreleased "Dave Walker Band" album from 1979 that got a limited release a few years back that makes Dave sound something like Billy Joel. There are also a few new songs on Dave's myspace page worth listening to as well...

[golddustdrummer]

I think "Did You Ever Love Me" is my fav...it has cool calypso vibe that kind of takes me away to another place. I just really love the steel drums in the song.

[becca]

I can only guess and blame the legal troubles of the time for 'Did You Ever Love Me' not becoming a radio staple like Clapton's cover of I Shot The Sherriff or 10cc's Dreadlock Holiday. Bright Fire grew on me and is one of the best Welch tracks, and The Derelict and the sleeve photo are the two best things about the album. So I thought it was a bit of a weak album for both Christine and Bob but I rate it higher than Tusk which mostly wasn't my thing at all when it came out or now (and I loved a lot of the new wave quirky punk-pop of the day).

[jbrownsjr]

I'm really glad you picked this album up... I love the most of the tunes on the album... I'm gonna go listen to it now... thanks...:thumbsup:

[DavidMn]

Bright Fire and Revelation are the 2 standout songs on this album for my money's worth.:)

[chiliD]

If they'd just have put some other song than "Roadrunner" on the album, it would've improved the overall album ten-fold. They could've re-done Savoy Brown's cover of the Temptations' "Can't Get Next To You" (that Dave sang) and it would've been 100x's better. "The Derelict" took about 20 years to grow on me, so it's off the hit-list now.

Christine was in great form on this album. How those songs weren't radio hits is just mind boggling.

Welch hadn't quite hit his stride yet, but you could see that his songs were a step up from his Bare Trees tunes...Mystery To Me was definitely his strongest album.

Just amazing that back in those days, bands could release two albums of all-new material within a year's time. We were so spoiled and didn't even know it.

[vivfox]

Just amazing that back in those days, bands could release two albums of all-new material within a year's time. We were so spoiled and didn't even know it.

They still can and they still do. It's just that now the genre is in hip hop music.

[jenniferuk]

So glad that you picked up a copy and had the thought to start this thread. I've dusted off my copy and listened twice today. For some reason I hadn't done that in a long time...been on a BT and FG kick lately.

My thoughts on this one are similar to those posted: I like the album, I don't care for RR. Overall I'd put it in the middle in terms of top to bottom list of my favourite FM albums--if I'd been asked yesterday it would have been toward the bottom as I hadn't listened to it in ages. Need to go and see what else needs a dusting off...

[aleuzzi]

Christine was in great form on this album. How those songs weren't radio hits is just mind boggling.

Welch hadn't quite hit his stride yet, but you could see that his songs were a step up from his Bare Trees tunes...Mystery To Me was definitely his strongest album.

I entirely agree. Remember Me has one of those melodies that stick in my head. It could be rearranged as a hit for any number of younger stars.

I love Welch's work on Penguin, particularly "Night Watch," which is such a dynamic tune. The lead guitar (not Green's echo fills, but the other one--Welch's? Weston's?) is incredible. And the block chord harmonies (which are definitely strengthened by Walker's presence) are thrilling to hear.

I only wish Penguin was a bit longer.

[David]

The Derelict for those who don't know is one of my favourite FM songs, and I'm a big DW fan... It's my favorite too. Years ago, I think I posted the chords here. If I ever get rockin' again with others, I want to cover "The Derelict."

[sjpdg]

They still can and they still do. It's just that now the genre is in hip hop music.

Music? :shocked: Really? Looped tracks of the same beat with the same lyrics repeated over, and over, and over again?

No offense intended, but I just can't see how that is music. Some people really love it, and hey they have every right to. I just don't consider it music. Just my humble opinion.

[nicepace]

To my thinking 'Penguin' is the most uneven of the Bob Welch era albums, but I still love to listen to it. It's true that it's short, only nine songs, one of which is (almost) an instrumental. To my ear the two Dave Walker songs feel uncomfortably out of place, but when you think about the history of the Mac, they were constantly adding new singer/songwriters, and Dave was one they added who lasted for just a blink of an eye. "Derelict" is a good song, I think "Road Runner" is a real throwaway.

I think Chris's songs on here are particularly strong, and I think the wonderful faux-Caribbean treatment of "Did You Ever Love Me" shows the band were trying new musical ideas and branching out. The one defining characteristic of Fleetwood Mac over their history is you can't define them.

[David]

Music? :shocked: Really? Looped tracks of the same beat with the same lyrics repeated over, and over, and over again?

No offense intended, but I just can't see how that is music. Some people really love it, and hey they have every right to. I just don't consider it music. Just my humble opinion.I never got into hip-hop, either -- neither the music nor the look.

[SteveMacD]

Just amazing that back in those days, bands could release two albums of all-new material within a year's time. We were so spoiled and didn't even know it.
They still can and they still do. It's just that now the genre is in hip hop music.

In 2009 alone, Robert Pollard is set to release (full-length studio albums in bold)

January - Robert Pollard - The Crawling Distance
February - Boston Spaceships - The Planets Are Blasted
April - Circus Devils - Gringo
May - Cosmos (Bob and Richard Davies) - Jar Of Jam Ton Of Bricks and Eat 7
July - Licking Stamps and Drinking ****ty Coffee Live
August - Robert Pollard - Elephant Jokes and Boston Spaceships poster
September - Eat 8 and the Boston Spaceships Sub Pop 7"
October - Boston Spaceships - Zero to 99
November - The Devil Went Home And Puked DVD
December - Suitcase 3 4-CD boxset and Briefcase 3 LP (previously unreleased material)

So, that's SIX full-length albums, a live album, a DVD, his THIRD 4-CD set of unreleased material, two magazines of collages, and a 7" EP. In MY world, two albums a year would be a horrible year!

[sjpdg]

I never got into hip-hop, either -- neither the music nor the look.

Me either! Never could understand how walking around looking like you have a load in your pants was fashionable!!:D

And those "songs"?! Just never sounds like music to me. Sounds just aweful.

[michelej1]

Ultimate Classic Rock
http://ultimateclassicrock.com/fleetwood-mac-penguin/

40 Years Ago: Fleetwood Mac Release ‘Penguin’

by Dave SwansonMarch 31, 2013 11:35 AM

As 1972 rolled around, Fleetwood Mac were trying to re-invent themselves and move the band forward. 1973′s ‘Penguin’ album would do exactly that — but not before traveling a long, strange road.

1971 saw guitarist Bob Welch joining the ranks for the ‘Future Games’ LP. Both it and its follow up, ‘Bare Trees,’ helped the band gain ground in the US, but things were still slow moving. In early 1971, guitarist Jeremy Spencer abruptly quit the band as he became involved with the Children of God “religious group” (pronounced cult). In the fall of 1972, guitarist Danny Kirwan was sacked by the band after a drunken bust-up involving Welch. Amidst all this chaos, the band regrouped to record their next album.

“The result was ‘Penguin,’ an album that Bob Welch terms ‘obscure,’ and Christine [McVie] described as ‘weird,’” Mick Fleetwood wrote in his autobiography, ‘My Life and Adventures In Fleetwood Mac.’

The Mac had brought in guitarist Bob Weston and vocalist Dave Walker to round out the sound, but that turned out to be a wrong turn. “Halfway through ‘Penguin’ we started to wonder about our new lead singer, who was often drunk and disorderly around the studio,” Fleetwood recalled. Walker’s vocal character was nondescript at best, and didn’t really fit with their style. Despite the drama, the band came up with a mostly solid offering in ‘Penguin.’

Christine McVie contributed a couple of her finest moments in the Mac songbook. ‘Remember Me‘ and ‘Dissatisfied‘ are near-perfect pop songs in the classic McVie style. Had these tracks been cut during the later Buckingham/Nicks era, they probably would have been hits. Bob Welch also turned in some solid tunes in the form of ‘Bright Fire‘ and the dynamic ‘Revelation,’ which features some great lead guitar and some killer bass from John McVie.

The haunting ‘Night Watch,’ also written by Welch, features their former leader Peter Green on (uncredited) guitar, and is probably the album’s highlight. A clunky cover of the Jr. Walker & the All Stars hit ‘(I’m A) Road Runner‘ is totally unnecessary.

Released in March of 1973, ‘Penguin’ ended up pushing its way into the Top 50, outselling all of Fleetwood Mac’s previous efforts. Named for John McVie’s love of the bird itself, its penguin logo would be used by the band for years to come.

Dave Walker exited the band a few months after ‘Penguin’ was released, while Weston hung on through the making of its follow-up, ‘Mystery to Me.’

It would be a mere two years before the group’s luck would forever change with the addition of Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham.

[vivfox]

It would be a mere two years before the group’s luck would forever change with the addition of Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham.

My favorite part of the article. It warms my heart.

[aleuzzi]

Ultimate Classic Rock
http://ultimateclassicrock.com/fleetwood-mac-penguin/

40 Years Ago: Fleetwood Mac Release ‘Penguin’

by Dave SwansonMarch 31, 2013 11:35


...and the dynamic ‘Revelation,’ which features some great lead guitar and some killer bass from John McVie...

The bass parts for this song were actually performed by Welch. According to some reports, McVie got paranoid about his playing during the recording of the album and took some time off to go to France. He had to be persuaded back to finish the album. I imagine "Revelation" was recorded while McVie was away. And with Weston deftly handling the guitar leads, Welch stepped in...

That's okay. McVie makes up for his absence with his terrific bass parts on "Remember Me."

[chiliD]

The bass parts for this song were actually performed by Welch. According to some reports, McVie got paranoid about his playing during the recording of the album and took some time off to go to France. He had to be persuaded back to finish the album. I imagine "Revelation" was recorded while McVie was away. And with Weston deftly handling the guitar leads, Welch stepped in...

That's okay. McVie makes up for his absence with his terrific bass parts on "Remember Me."

From what I've heard/read (maybe even from the Welch Q&A) that John McVie & Dave Walker were just down the road at a pub (where they'd gone in a break in proceedings) and the rest of the band had tired of waiting for them to get back. Hence Welch playing the bass on that track.

[aleuzzi]

From what I've heard/read (maybe even from the Welch Q&A) that John McVie & Dave Walker were just down the road at a pub (where they'd gone in a break in proceedings) and the rest of the band had tired of waiting for them to get back. Hence Welch playing the bass on that track.

Yeah, I think Dave Walker said that, too. The France story was mentioned in Clarke's book on the band.

[Blueletter18]

I just got this CD today - the last of the pre rumours albums that I needed. I forgot about it and didn't get around to getting it for a while. Thought we could talk about the album a little.

I love Remember Me...my favorite by Christine on this album. I like all her tunes on this though - wish she had more space on the record.

This might be my least favorite album for Bob Welch stuff though...or I may just need to get time to get into his stuff more. Revelation is my fav. of his for now.

I love the album ending with Caught in the Rain...

Dave Walker wise - I HATE Road Runner. I really hate it. Might be the worst song under the Fleetwood Mac title. The vocal just isn't FM to me. On the other hand, I LOVE The Derelict. Simple song but great lyrics. Maybe my favorite on the album. I'm getting the feeling that it might not be too popular though. :o

Compared to it's peers, I like it better than Bare Trees. However I don't care for Kirwan very much so that might be why. Not as good as MTM, and not as good as Heroes, but close. It's a good album but has it's weak spots. IMO - as good as Future Games. Chris shines more on this CD than she did on Future Games. Worth many listens for sure though.

What are your thoughts on the album?

I agree with you on The Derelict! No one that I have forced it upon has appreciated it though...my friend called it "a mentally impaired love song." But there is something so honest in its simplicity, I just adore it. Alternately, I do like Roadrunner, but I agree that Walker's style is just not FM enough.

This was a good album for Christine, and I really wish she had more than three tracks. Did You Ever Love Me is probably a close second to Remember Me.

[chriskisn]

I agree with you on The Derelict! No one that I have forced it upon has appreciated it though....

Glad to know you have that problem too! I rank The Derelict in my top five or six Fleetwood Mac songs of all time, it really is that good. Sadly poor old DW does not get any love on these boards. As for me, I'd rate him as probably my second favourite male vocalist EVER (and I don't just mean in Fleetwood Mac). Oh the first of course is the God in human form, Bob Dylan :nod:

[moon]

I like Penguin.
Dave Walker's work is half-and-half. I like The Derelict, but I don't know what (I'm A) Road Runner is doing here!! It contrasts with the rest of the songs.
My favourites here are, definitely, Remember Me, Bright Fire, and Bob Weston's gem Caught in the Rain.
Did you ever love me? has a very special mention, because is the only where Bob Weston sings backing vocals.
About Bright Fire, it's a very relaxing song, I love it.
About Caught in the Rain, I don't remember who's "the voice" (if Bob Welch, Bob Weston, or both), but it's a beautiful end. Just guitar, piano, and two minutes. Great.

[redbird]

I've come around some on this album, it's got some really solid songs. Also I think "The Derelict" is great and get the feeling that most people think it's awful :laugh: I love it though!

[aleuzzi]

Penguin was the first Pre-Rumours FM record I really loved-- largely because of Chrstine's songs, which I immediately fell in love with. She came into her own on this lp. Welch's songs were also genuinely interesting.

The only other Pre-Rumours record I'd heard to that point was Heroes, which I did NOT like for several years. (I've now come to appreciate the songs "on paper" and love the live versions Welch did on the soundboard.)

I thought Walker's songs a weird fit but I loved is voice and still think his harmonies on Bright Fire, for instance, are excellent.

[streetangel27]

Penguin is one of my favourite FM albums.

And The Derelict is one of my favourite songs. I don't care what other people think :laugh:

Caught in the Rain is one of my "writing" songs. I find it so inspirational to listen to.

Dissatisfied is another favourite. I love the "false start" or however you'd classify it at the beginning.

[I'msoAfraid95]

Am I the only one who loves RoadRunner?
Penguin was the first pre Rumours album I liked. Its not their best, but its far from being their worst album.

[aleuzzi]

Am I the only one who loves RoadRunner?
Penguin was the first pre Rumours album I liked. Its not their best, but its far from being their worst album.

The "Dean of Rock Critics" Robert Christagu agrees with you. He loves how that tune goes down. He also loves Christine's "Husky laments" but hates the Welch tunes.

[Dr.Brown]

I agree with you on The Derelict! No one that I have forced it upon has appreciated it though...my friend called it "a mentally impaired love song." But there is something so honest in its simplicity, I just adore it.

I really love this song too but imagine what your friend would say after watching this: :thumbsup:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/i_MaqxFZWHw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[SteveMacD]

Wow. Just wow.