Michael Jackson heart problem

[RoseGarden]

Our local news had just announced that Michael Jackson was enroute to a Los Angelos Hospital due to cardiac problems.

He is listed as critical condition.


I thought he lived in another country?

[LukeA]

Apparently, he experienced cardiac arrest. This is bad.

(He's been in Los Angeles rehearsing for the London O2 shows)

[RoseGarden]

I enjoyed Michaels 70-80's music so much.

It is indeed sad that Farrah died today, and another legend could be passing also.

Of corse, family and freinds ALWAYS are more important, but so sad to see so many public figures leaving ---seems like all at once.

A little off the subject, but Patrick Swayze is another cheerished icon and seems to be fighting a tuff battle with Pancreatic cancer and of corse Michael Fox with the Parkingson (sorry bout the spelling)............

[LukeA]

TMZ.com is reporting he has passed.

[trackaghost]

I'm shocked, I just knew those O2 dates wouldn't go ahead but I didn't think it would be because of anything like this.

Are TMZ generally reliable?

[UnwindedDreams]

According to CNN, he's hospitalized w/ a cardiac arrest and alive.

[chiliD]

MSNBC reporting he's in a coma. :shrug:

[trackaghost]

That's still pretty bad. Those O2 shows definitely aren't going ahead now! I imagine there were more than a few bets put on that.

[UnwindedDreams]

Is anyone hearing that he wasn't able to be revived?

[jenniferuk]

The latest (radio) news said that his heart had stopped and paramedics were unable to revive him,but no word on whether the hospital staff revived him. TMZ says he has passed but LA Times says coma.

[LukeA]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/06/pop-star-michael-jackson-was-rushed-to-a-hospital-this-afternoon-by-los-angeles-fire-department-paramedics--capt-steve-ruda.html

[Updated at 3:15 p.m.: Pop star Michael Jackson was pronounced dead by doctors this afternoon after arriving at a hospital in a deep coma, city and law enforcement sources told The Times.]

[BombaySapphire3]

The Los Angeles Times is reporting him dead.

[UnwindedDreams]

I cannot believe this.

[estranged4life]

NBC news confirmed he has died

[RoseGarden]

Yes, it's been confirmed he has died.


I hope the tabloids will just leave his family alone and let them grieve in peace. There will be loads of "stories" about this....................


I really enjoyed his music the most 70-80's. I loved watching him dance as he did the physically impossible.

Very sad ..............


This is a small wake up call to me and perhaps some others......REALLY love your family/friends as we don't know what the next day could bring..........

[JazmenFlowers]

LA Times is also confirming - SO sad

[MacMan]

This is unreal.... The truth is after I first heard it, and before turning on cnn, I thought - okay, this has to be some sort of publicity stunt! Man, this is so unreal... That is young... I'm not THAT far from 50!

[danax6]

Unbelievable. I'm really saddened by this news. :(

[OldTimer]

My God, what a shock.....what a sad ending for that exquisitely talented, tormented genius. :distress:

[gldstwmn]

He and Farrah passing is too much for one day. They are two huge parts of my childhood. My condolences to his family and may he rest in peace.

[gldstwmn]

Are TMZ generally reliable?

Unfortunately yes.

[RoseGarden]

Now that the shock has sunk into my head------what are his children going to do?
Makes it more the sadder. Life had to be different and who is going to teach them life in "another" world? The real world? Very sad all around.

[Stephanie]

I have missed all this b/c I have little kids and NOGGIN is on my TV. We got in the car for a second to move it in the driveway, and heard "Obviously we will be playing lots of Michael Jackson" and from there, figured it out. So Surreal for me.

[jbrownsjr]

I am in shock as well.... very saddened....:distress:

[jenniferuk]

Very sad. I feel for his children and hope they are able to have some privacy.

[BombaySapphire3]

I hate to say it but you know how things come in threes.....

[Steviefan49]

What a sad, sad day in the entertainment world today. And yes, Michael and Farrah were 2 huge loves of mine, while I was growing up, in the 70's. I'm devistated beyond words today, as it's been a very sad one. God definitely needed 2 stars in Heaven today.. May both Michael and Farrah RIP...:angel:

[Nico]

Wow. I have to say that this is an extreme shock to me. I grew up in the 80s and MJ was, to me and so many others, an icon. I loved his music and it just makes me really, really sad. He was an odd little man, but so gifted and seemed so kind. Troubled but kind. I can't quite take it all in. I have all the albums and I'm remembering dancing to Thriller. Oh...:distress: I'm just going to be sad for a while...and my childhood best friend is going to be mortified.

[chiliD]

I hate to say it but you know how things come in threes.....

Michael WAS the "three":

Ed McMahon, then Farrah, then Michael.

[vivfox]

I was driving to one of my accounts this afternoon when the radio dj announced Farrah's death. Then he played "One of these Nights" by the Eagles. I burst into tears and cried for about 20 minutes. I almost was gonna cancel work over my grief. She was such a huge part of my teenage years.
Later while at another work location I heard on their tv about Michael having a cardiac arrest and being brought to the hospital. A heart surgeon on the news was saying it wasn't good news. He said that most people who suffer cardiac arrest outside a hospital will die.
A couple hours later as I'm eating dinner and watching tv the sad news was announced.
The very first album I ever owned was the BEN Soundtrack in 1973.
This is so hard to accept for me, the passing of these two great Icons. Please, everbody take your health issues seriously. Please seek help if you need it.

[LukeA]

Michael WAS the "three":

Ed McMahon, then Farrah, then Michael.

I really hate the whole "in threes" myth.

[Mac_Villain]

I had tickets for his show on July 22, was shaping up to be the best year ever seeing MJ and the Mac. Now it just seems empty.

[David]

I've always kept these on my iPod:

ABC
The Love You Save
Mama's Pearl
Human Nature
Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'

[Macfanforever]

At6pm est tonight..I put the local news on to hear about farrah.All a sudden breaking news came on about Michael Jackson passed on. at 50.Its so sad.this week we've loss Ed,Farrah and now MJ.RIP Michael.

[Macfanforever]

I had tickets for his show on July 22, was shaping up to be the best year ever seeing MJ and the Mac. Now it just seems empty.

Wow this reminds me about my late sister had Elvis Presley tickets for a concert that was a month later of Elvis's passing in 1977.She was so upset she cried for days,,now 30 years later shes up there with him forever.also Mickael and Farrah.

[gldstwmn]

I've always kept these on my iPod:

ABC
The Love You Save
Mama's Pearl
Human Nature
Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'

I immediately thought of I'll Be There when I heard the news.

[sara1998]

Wanna be start ing something has been on my mind since. What a day. I cried when I heard Farrah died. But Michael Jackson just has me in shock. What a huge loss the world has suffered (entertainment wise) today.

[GODDESS6]

wow i am speechless~ tho he looked atrocious as of late & was anorexic, the plastic surgeries, his nose falling off, i never saw this one coming~ this makes 3 now for those of us who are a little superstitious~ ed mcmahon, farrah fawcett & now the king of pop~ i was watching coverage on farrah & my step ma called & said they said on the radio he was dead~ now i am not going to jump on his bandwagon & say i was a huge fan, more of a casual one~ i do feel in my heart that he molested the boys that accused him~ seeing as he paid off 2 of the families, to me points to his guilt~ i do not like to think that he would do such a thing, but in my heart of hearts, i know he did & went unpunished~ i hope somehow, more so for the victims, but also for michael's own soul he was able to someway make amends~

that being said~ this has been a surreal day for me~ i grew up hearing the jackson 5 on the radio & i do have to admit i own thriller on album~ tho i haven't looked at it, in probably 10 years, i know it is still in there in our stacks of vinyl~ there are about 20 songs of his that he sang w/ his brothers & solo that i absolutely loved~ i liked him more when he was still, well let's just face it, when he still looked black~ he lead an interesting, tragic, yet musically talented life~ to his fans he was elvis like, larger than life~ there are people outside the hospital & the home where he died right now & it brings back memories of the crowds for princess di~ they were saying on the news that the premiere of "bruno" is tonight & that the red carpet is covering up michael's star on the hollywood walk of fame, but fans are so compelled to leave mementos, that they have been leaving them at a brit's star who has the same name michael jackson~

hopefully michael had sometime to heal his demons~ & i have to admit when i heard the news, tho i didn't shed a tear, i did grab my crotch do a little jig & let out a collective whohoohoo ;)~

RIP michael:angel:

[RoseGarden]

I immediately thought of I'll Be There when I heard the news.

That did it......the water works ......I'll be there. What a beautiful song!!!!!! So much meaning. Yeah, this is a horrific loss......................................

[SandyMac]

I am so saddened by this news. Rest in Peace Michael.

I also grew up listening to his music and will always be a part of the soundtrack to my life.
The 80's belonged to Michael. This is so surreal I can not wrap my mind around it.

My college roommate was a huge fan of Michael like I am of Stevie and FM, so hearing news of his loss just makes me want to cry. :distress:

[GoldDustBoy]

This is just so sad. :( I just got up, and everywhere you look, there are news about Michael's death. I am still in shock.

RIP Michael Jackson

[Keith]

Sad. Michael Jackson has passed on.. I wanted to be him when I was ten…

"..won't you please let me back into your heart..."

I’ve loved his music for as long as I remember.. From ‘I Want You Back‘ to the underrated ‘Dangerous‘ CD - my favorite from Michael. He must have been hanging out in Sly Stone’s recording studio lounge when he wrote the first six songs for Dangerous. Best when wrapped around a toke. ..

Man, this is sad…..Such a talent.. Thanks for the music Michael.. especially Dangerous and Billie Jean and This Time Around - It stays deep inside my heart.. Stay peaceful.

“Why you wanna trip on me…” Michael.

[gldstwmn]

Thriller is currently at #1 on iTunes.

[JWS]

Thriller is currently at #1 on iTunes.

Probably on Youtube too.

[JWS]

wow i am speechless~ tho he looked atrocious as of late & was anorexic, the plastic surgeries, his nose falling off, i never saw this one coming~ this makes 3 now for those of us who are a little superstitious~ ed mcmahon, farrah fawcett & now the king of pop~ i was watching coverage on farrah & my step ma called & said they said on the radio he was dead~ now i am not going to jump on his bandwagon & say i was a huge fan, more of a casual one~ i do feel in my heart that he molested the boys that accused him~ seeing as he paid off 2 of the families, to me points to his guilt~ i do not like to think that he would do such a thing, but in my heart of hearts, i know he did & went unpunished~ i hope somehow, more so for the victims, but also for michael's own soul he was able to someway make amends~


RIP michael:angel:

I think you're right. He bought his way out. What is it...three times he was brought for child molestation charges.

[TrueFaith77]

It's so sad to know how much pain went unhealed, how many internal conflicts remained unresolved. I suppose if he had lived a 100 years, he never would have assuaged that pain or solved those conflicts, as he embodied (literally) the anxieties of the era. Ironically, he also found the pop language (the groove, the spectacle that drew from any and all sources and cultures) that the entire world recognized and shared. He would utilize that language of universal appeal to express those very anxieties, ever refining that approach, culminating with, to my ear/heart/mind, his best work: HIStory (1995) and Blood On The Dance Floor (1997). How many people had their formative art experiences with Michael Jackson? How many people had their first experiences of racism or homophobia directed at Michael Jackson? How many people loved him? He showed us who we are, even as he struggled to find himself. May he rest in peace.

[gldstwmn]

He showed us who we are, even as he struggled to find himself.

Nicely put.

[Steviefan49]

It's so sad to know how much pain went unhealed, how many internal conflicts remained unresolved. I suppose if he had lived a 100 years, he never would have assuaged that pain or solved those conflicts, as he embodied (literally) the anxieties of the era. Ironically, he also found the pop language (the groove, the spectacle that drew from any and all sources and cultures) that the entire world recognized and shared. He would utilize that language of universal appeal to express those very anxieties, ever refining that approach, culminating with, to my ear/heart/mind, his best work: HIStory (1995) and Blood On The Dance Floor (1997). How many people had their formative art experiences with Michael Jackson? How many people had their first experiences of racism or homophobia directed at Michael Jackson? How many people loved him? He showed us who we are, even as he struggled to find himself. May he rest in peace.

What a beautiful post.. My sentiments here too.. RIP Michael..:angel:

[Enchanted_Stevi]

So I am pretty sure while I was at work tonight. I was like BEMBARDED with like 20 text messages from friends saying that Michael Jackson died!! I was seriously like "YOU ****TING ME?" I called my mom because I knew she wasnt watching the news or TV...and I was like "Mom, Michael Jackson just ****in died!!"

Like I seriously dont believe it!! He was like one of the last people I'd expect to die so sudden. Its been such a loss this year in the entertainment business. Bea Arthur, Ed McMahn, Farrah Fawcett, Michael Jackson....its insane!

Even though Michael Jackson's personal life wasnt the best and he was a little messed up. You have to admit he's an amazing artist and performer. He was also gonna go on tour next month!! DAMN

R.I.P. Michael =\

[HejiraNYC]

This is an unprecedented tragedy. By any measures, Michael Jackson was the most famous person in the world. Hands down. Wow. I think one could argue that this is more momentous than Elvis' passing. Once in a generation...

That being said, I can't help but wonder why people on TV are dancing and smiling in front of the LA hospital. I mean, I can understand the notion of "celebrating one's life," but it seems downright morbid. If I didn't know better, I would have thought that Osama bin Laden had been found. Dead. As sad as this may sound... could it be that people had already written MJ off of their collective consciences- almost as if he was already dead to them? Could it be that they had already mourned the passing of the young, brown-skinned dancing machine years ago and were merely tolerating the eccentric, ashen scandal-plagued relic that took over his physical being in recent years?

Anyway, RIP, MJ. May you dance on the moon forever.

[Remy]

I think you're right. He bought his way out. What is it...three times he was brought for child molestation charges.

Well... I have read every possible book, article, interview from both sides of the case... And let me tell you, I wouldnt have remained a fan if I had the SLIGHTEST doubt about Mj's innocence. Weird, eccentric, strange-looking- yes. a child molester, a pedophile - not.

[GODDESS6]

they just said on the news, that billie jean has left the building:distress:~

i have to say i like they way this thread is going~ i know michael did bad things, i am not blind~ but other boards are reveling in his death & that breaks my heart~

does anyone remember the year michael was winning all the grammy's for thriller & during one of the latter wins, the cameras flashed on stevie nicks in the audience real quick & she was saying "oh wow"?~ i do~

[estranged4life]

Best comment I have read online in regards to MJ's passing:

"However, what I can't not say is how sickened I am to see the same 'media machine' hyenas that vilified Michael now proving themselves the ultimate hypocrites raving up his memory.

How do you people live with your selfish selves?"

[rubytuesday]

This is an unprecedented tragedy. By any measures, Michael Jackson was the most famous person in the world. Hands down. Wow. I think one could argue that this is more momentous than Elvis' passing. Once in a generation...I don't think it's quite like that, as in he wasn't quite as significant to music but Elvis and john lennon are the only ones that come in as in a similar league.

[skcin]

I don't think it's quite like that, as in he wasn't quite as significant to music but Elvis and john lennon are the only ones that come in as in a similar league.

You really don't think he was as significant to music? :shocked: Wow. I'm not really a fan (of course, when I was 8 years old I was), but the guy did make history. Still has the top selling album of all time & has influenced countless musical artists & entertainers. I don't really care to compare artists or to try & rate which loss is more tragic, but I do think he was very important to music - just as important as Elvis & The Beatles. :shrug: JMO.

[LINDSEY#1FAN]

God Bless Michael Jackson!!! :angel:

[TrueFaith77]

^^^and James Brown!

Also:

The Wow Jones Report posted the following. I can't watch them at work so cannot attest to the quality of the recording, but I was at the event.

Critic Armond White on Michael Jackson's LEGACY (Parts 1 and 2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdb5jEDFxSM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBe0Aeh_jO4

[rubytuesday]

You really don't think he was as significant to music? :shocked: Wow. I'm not really a fan (of course, when I was 8 years old I was), but the guy did make history. Still has the top selling album of all time & has influenced countless musical artists & entertainers. I don't really care to compare artists or to try & rate which loss is more tragic, but I do think he was very important to music - just as important as Elvis & The Beatles. :shrug: JMO.I hate to do the comparisons but he's the most significant artist since Elvis or the beatles but there's no way his impression on music is anything like those two. Without MJ we would still have pop music, without Elvis the whole modern era of music would be completely different. Elvis literally changed modern music, MJ just broke record sales etc. He didn't shape music like elvis or the beatles, so no, I don't think he's as significant but as I said, I think he's the most significant since those two and I highly doubt there'll be anyone as significant to come along after him.

[Lee]

First of all, I have to say that I’m shocked like everyone else that he passed away. I knew he was kind of frail & really didn’t know how he was going to handle a big tour. I had though no idea though that he was abusing prescription drugs that I’ve just heard & didn’t know how much pain he was in with his back, etc. I feel for his family & his children. I was a big fan of his & his brothers growing up; I had posters of the Jacksons & the Osmonds all over my room. I still have Michael’s Off the Wall & Thriller albums. I probably wore them out. My niece (who is 27 now & will probably not remember this since she was so small) used to go around saying “Beat It” over & over again. Drove everyone nuts. Michael was so huge in the 80s, & I do think his music influenced other artists, maybe not like Elvis or The Beatles though, but to some extent. And then Michael just got strange, & of course the child molestation charges & I just started to not really like him personally. The only time you heard about him was when he was in the hospital having his plastic surgeries or moving to his next rented house. I was hoping his tour would kind of be his big comeback. But it wasn’t to be. And it is so hypocritical of the media who jumped all over him when he was brought up on the child molestation charges to now praise him & hype him up because they see how his fans are affected. And the fans are celebrating his music, dancing in the streets, a sort of tribute; I don’t think that is morbid at all. I think he would want that; to be remembered for his music. That is how I will remember him, for his music. :nod:

Lee :distress:

[strandinthewind]

At first, I thought it was another feigned illness as he often did that. Then, the news of his death, which was a shock. My life has been filled with glorious music for 40 or so years. RIP MJ

[bellagypsy79]

The first record my parents bought for me and my sister was "Thriller". I still have it! I don't know how it plays now since I don't have a record player but it's still good to keep and hold onto until I am gone. My mom used to tell my sister and I to stop jumping down on the beds when we were playing "Beat It". It was so funny because the record would constantly skip because of the floor shaking. My first memory of Michael was at the American Music Awards" in 1983 or 84 when he moon-walked across the stage. I looked at his feet and was facinated by the way he danced with such grace. It was almost as if his feet had wings because of how smoothly they would glide across the floor. It was as if he was flying. Now he really does have wings. He is in heaven and I know that I will see him there someday and get my chance to dance with him. Because I've always wanted too. Thank you Michael for the memories. I had a happy childhood.:angel:

[GODDESS6]

The first record my parents bought for me and my sister was "Thriller". I still have it! I don't know how it plays now since I don't have a record player but it's still good to keep and hold onto until I am gone. My mom used to tell my sister and I to stop jumping down on the beds and in the bedroom when we were playing "Beat It". It was so funny because the record would constantly skip because of the floor shaking. My first memory of "Him" was at the American Music Awards" in 1983 or 84 when he moon walked across the stage. I looked at his feet and was facinated by the way he danced with such grace. It was almost as if his feet had wings because of how smoothly they would glide across the floor. It was as if he was flying. Now he really does have wings. He is in heaven and I know that I will see him there someday and get my chance to dance with him. Because I've always wanted too. Thank you Michael for the memories. I had a happy childhood.:angel:

my soon to be 10 year old has been watching the news & video shows all morning trying to see as many moonwalk scenes as he can, he is so fascinated by michael's fluidity while doing it~ i have tried to do it, & can master a pretty good version in socks on a slippery floor, but it will never match the magicalness when michael did it:D

[wondergirl9847]

Best comment I have read online in regards to MJ's passing:

"However, what I can't not say is how sickened I am to see the same 'media machine' hyenas that vilified Michael now proving themselves the ultimate hypocrites raving up his memory.

How do you people live with your selfish selves?"

I thought the same exact thing yesterday.

Michael is a legend. Thriller is his Rumours....that once in a lifetime album that changed history and skyrocketed him to superstardom. He was already a superstar, but that album took him into the stratosphere. It's one of my first albums and will always be a fave.

I hope Michael's soul is at peace. :angel:

[skcin]

I hate to do the comparisons but he's the most significant artist since Elvis or the beatles but there's no way his impression on music is anything like those two. Without MJ we would still have pop music, without Elvis the whole modern era of music would be completely different. Elvis literally changed modern music, MJ just broke record sales etc. He didn't shape music like elvis or the beatles, so no, I don't think he's as significant but as I said, I think he's the most significant since those two and I highly doubt there'll be anyone as significant to come along after him.

I see your point. So how do you feel about Kurt Cobain? :shrug: The "grunge" music scene certainly wasn't created by him alone, but Nirvana sure as hell had a lot to do with bringing it into the mainstream.

[gldstwmn]

^^^and James Brown!



Yup. That was who he emulated/idolized. You can see it in his early years performing with the Jackson 5. It influenced his style of dance throughout his entire career. His trademark spins - those were pure James.

[wheart]

I was never much of an MJ fan but his passing has really shaken me. He's just someone who you always though would be around and now he's not. An enormous talent...and I know he had very devoted fans. I can't imagine what they're going through.

The toxicology reports should prove interesting.

[JWS]

I don't think it's quite like that, as in he wasn't quite as significant to music but Elvis and john lennon are the only ones that come in as in a similar league.


I've heard boxer Muhammed Ali is the most famous person in the world. He is in bad shape and the end may be near for him as well.

[GoldDustBoy]

I am 25 years old, and I remember I loved Michael so much when I was a little kid. I couldn't even pronounce his name right. After I grew up I never was a hardcore fan, but I had the highest respect for him. He could sing, dance, and write great songs, and was an incredible showman. I believe there never will be anyone like him.

P.S. Currently 23 of his songs are on the itunes top 100.

[sara1998]

I don't think it's quite like that, as in he wasn't quite as significant to music but Elvis and john lennon are the only ones that come in as in a similar league.

You're just kidding yourself. To say that MJ isn't as significant to music is to say that the grass is orange.

I was a big fan as a kid and teenager. I guess I never cared for anything past Dangerous. I have always had the upmost respect for his talent. I think it's sad my children will never really understand how big his passing really is. They have been learning his music in the past 24 hours because I've youtubed and played what's on my ipod. They like it!

[shackin'up]

Well I feel sorry for his family and fans. But I hated the **** out of him. The only good thing ever on a Michael Jackson record was those thrilling ten seconds from Eddie van Halen.

He represented everything I despised during my youth. During Thriller I was still listening to Tusk everyday and I was into Iggy Pop, Talking Heads and discovering Led Zep and CCR because I was too young during their heydays. Michael just was the enemy. I'll miss him for that.

[HejiraNYC]

^^^^Wow, and I thought I was just sort of indifferent about MJ's music- but I didn't actually hate the man! Still... although I never really was a fan of MJ's, I could appreciate him as a musician and as a maverick in a lot of ways. Hate it or love it, he practically invented the genre of big theatrical dance pop music- copied today by Madonna, Justin Timberlake, Beyonce, etc.

In death, I am distraught- not because I will miss him or his music. I just find it sad that he was a truly damaged person who, despite having so much wealth, fame and talent, just could not escape his own demons in the end.

[gldstwmn]

P.S. Currently 23 of his songs are on the itunes top 100.

What a nice tribute.

[markolas]

In death, I am distraught- not because I will miss him or his music. I just find it sad that he was a truly damaged person who, despite having so much wealth, fame and talent, just could not escape his own demons in the end.

Does wealth, fame, & talent really ever help anyone escape their demons? I think they probably helped create them, in his case. He had a terrible childhood by all accounts, and was apparently surrounded by leeches and sycophants as an adult, who I'm sure had a vested interest in his increasingly loose grip on reality. It's incredibly sad, but not entirely surprising that this happened.

It's interesting to me that what people are remembering is his musical talent, and not so much his grotesque personal life; I think it's unfortunate that it took him dying for that to happen, tho. And I say that as someone who was never a fan of his music.

[David]

Well I feel sorry for his family and fans. But I hated the **** out of him. The only good thing ever on a Michael Jackson record was those thrilling ten seconds from Eddie van Halen.

He represented everything I despised during my youth. During Thriller I was still listening to Tusk everyday and I was into Iggy Pop, Talking Heads and discovering Led Zep and CCR because I was too young during their heydays. Michael just was the enemy. I'll miss him for that.Some of Jackson's early tracks have something in common with Fleetwood Mac: intricate orchestration in which some instruments are used to simulate other instruments or sounds.

[Hawkeye]

It was just so strange to be in Canada when Michael Jakson suddenly died. And then I came home to Phoneix and find out that Farahh Fawcett the inspiration to my Rumours era hair cut had also died. Well I just didn't know what to do.

[RoseGarden]

It's interesting to me that what people are remembering is his musical talent, and not so much his grotesque personal life; I think it's unfortunate that it took him dying for that to happen, tho. And I say that as someone who was never a fan of his music.

I honestly don't think people realize that he came from an abusive father , with 9 living in a small home and the fact he became the cash cow very quickly once he fought his way to prove he was star material.

Of corse, I don't know all his personal stories, but the obvious does stand out. He was a young boy that was forced to grow into an adult world without much say in how his earnings would go.

On a real personal note, I am so sorry if back pain lead him to over take pain meds for relief. I understand lumbar and cervical nerve damage that can take over thoughts from the grueling pain...........I certaintly hope he is pain free and in the peaceful overside now............

[Villavic]

I honestly don't think people realize that he came from an abusive father , with 9 living in a small home and the fact he became the cash cow very quickly once he fought his way to prove he was star material.

Of corse, I don't know all his personal stories, but the obvious does stand out. He was a young boy that was forced to grow into an adult world without much say in how his earnings would go.


And that's not a unique story, there are several children artists that suffered the same. Most of them didn't have a normal adult life. But Michael was the most known example.

Rest in peace Michael. I loved your music in the 80s, dissapointed about your personal life/decisions during the 90s, but you were a great artist anyway.

[gldstwmn]

It's interesting to me that what people are remembering is his musical talent, and not so much his grotesque personal life.

I'm remembering the impact on my life and childhood. The Jackson Five and later MJ were huge. As I said before, losing MJ and Farrah in one day is quite a jolt for any 70's child. Much has been said about the other stuff. I just don't want to go there right now. I'd rather just linger a bit in memories of a golden time when it seemed things were simpler and yet quite magical.

[gldstwmn]

I
On a real personal note, I am so sorry if back pain lead him to over take pain meds for relief. I understand lumbar and cervical nerve damage that can take over thoughts from the grueling pain...........I certaintly hope he is pain free and in the peaceful overside now............

I think it started with the burns he got while doing that Pepsi commercial.

[desertangel]

RIP Michael and deep gratitudes for your wonderful legacy of music.

He was a true musical genius and a tortured soul who many tried to save and couldn't. My heart mourns for this tragedy. I loath the enablers and those who contributed to his emotional and physical demise, this is the price of their ignorance.

[shackin'up]

Some of Jackson's early tracks have something in common with Fleetwood Mac: intricate orchestration in which some instruments are used to simulate other instruments or sounds.

There's a lot of bands I don't like that have something in common wit FM. His voice gave me the creeps.

[shackin'up]

Hate it or love it, he practically invented the genre of big theatrical dance pop music- copied today by Madonna, Justin Timberlake, Beyonce, etc.


Well, the answer is: Hate it. All of it that he invented. I guess I really don't like big theatrical dance-pop-music.

I can see how the guy was a big influence, performer, and what an icon it was, but I would have liked it if he had taken the chance to make a " Tusk" and not again and again make slight variations on his dancepopsongs.

[BellaDonna93]

It's sooo sad that Michael died...he was a king!!! He had such a huge talent and he was amazing!! I watched a documentary about his life yesterday. It was a really great documentary...And awww, he was soooo cute when he hadn't done those face operations! When he was little...it's sad that he distroied himself that much. I think that he wasn't a happy person...But he had that amazing talent that a few people have, the dancing and singing...R.I.P Michael Jackson...

http://www.bordersmedia.com/motown/galleries/ss_images/MichaelJacksonMillen_sm.jpg

[rubytuesday]

You're just kidding yourself. To say that MJ isn't as significant to music is to say that the grass is orange.I think your majorly kidding yourself to take his death to the level that he was as influential to music as elvis was. Maybe it's because he's so recent by comparison and it's hard to remember music before elvis and what his role was. There's a reason that he was the king and MJ was the king of pop. I love MJ and I'm not a big fan of elvis but that's insane to think he's as influential as elvis was. Elvis gave the world rock 'n' roll and if you calculate all the record sales, dance moves and stage spectaculars it still doesn't amount up to giving the whole world rock 'n' roll.

I see your point. So how do you feel about Kurt Cobain? :shrug: The "grunge" music scene certainly wasn't created by him alone, but Nirvana sure as hell had a lot to do with bringing it into the mainstream.Yeah grunge wouldn't have been what it was without him but I guess the difference is that it's a small particular pocket of music and also a kind of redo of punk which went before it. So he was like the elvis of a much smaller part of music whereas elvis was the beginning of pretty much popular modern music in general.

[rubytuesday]

Well I feel sorry for his family and fans. But I hated the **** out of him. The only good thing ever on a Michael Jackson record was those thrilling ten seconds from Eddie van Halen.

He represented everything I despised during my youth. During Thriller I was still listening to Tusk everyday and I was into Iggy Pop, Talking Heads and discovering Led Zep and CCR because I was too young during their heydays. Michael just was the enemy. I'll miss him for that.
I looooove iggy pop and talking heads are one my favourites ever but I like MJ quite a lot too. I don't know how you could hate him personally. But I guess I hate a lot of modern artists but you have to give him credit for creating new creative pathways that the modern artists aren't doing unless you call strip shows with background music the new creative pathway.

[Tango]

In case you missed it, there is an interview that Sheryl Crow did on CNN about Michael:


http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/showbiz/2009/06/25/ac.crow.jackson.reax.cnn

[bucklind17]

I think your majorly kidding yourself to take his death to the level that he was as influential to music as elvis was. Maybe it's because he's so recent by comparison and it's hard to remember music before elvis and what his role was. There's a reason that he was the king and MJ was the king of pop. I love MJ and I'm not a big fan of elvis but that's insane to think he's as influential as elvis was. Elvis gave the world rock 'n' roll and if you calculate all the record sales, dance moves and stage spectaculars it still doesn't amount up to giving the whole world rock 'n' roll.



Yet it's pretty fair to say that if you take Michael Jackson out of the equation, we would be without a lot of people who found their way to entertainment. Not just songwriters or singers, but he had such a huge influence in the world of dance. He may not have had the influence that Elvis had in terms of bringing forth a new genre (even that is debatable when you consider how iconic many elements of his style and performance became) but he definitely comes close to having the impact and influence that Elvis had in terms of touching a huge span of people. Outside of Elvis and the Beatles, I'm not sure there are many other people who reach that scope of impact.

[JWS]

Yet it's pretty fair to say that if you take Michael Jackson out of the equation, we would be without a lot of people who found their way to entertainment. Not just songwriters or singers, but he had such a huge influence in the world of dance. He may not have had the influence that Elvis had in terms of bringing forth a new genre (even that is debatable when you consider how iconic many elements of his style and performance became) but he definitely comes close to having the impact and influence that Elvis had in terms of touching a huge span of people. Outside of Elvis and the Beatles, I'm not sure there are many other people who reach that scope of impact.

In his day (1940's - 70's), Frank Sinatra, was equal in mass appeal as Elvis and the Beatles in their time.

[BombaySapphire3]

Yet it's pretty fair to say that if you take Michael Jackson out of the equation, we would be without a lot of people who found their way to entertainment. Not just songwriters or singers, but he had such a huge influence in the world of dance. He may not have had the influence that Elvis had in terms of bringing forth a new genre (even that is debatable when you consider how iconic many elements of his style and performance became) but he definitely comes close to having the impact and influence that Elvis had in terms of touching a huge span of people. Outside of Elvis and the Beatles, I'm not sure there are many other people who reach that scope of impact.

I would have to say that on an international scale love them or hate them ABBA has also come close to that impact.

[David]

There's a lot of bands I don't like that have something in common wit FM. His voice gave me the creeps.When he was a youngster, he had a great R&B voice: pliable, pyrotechnic, swinging.

As an adult, he developed a series of mannerisms -- hiccups, warbly vibrato, breathiness -- that marred his singing, to my ears.

[David]

In his day (1940's - 70's), Frank Sinatra, was equal in mass appeal as Elvis and the Beatles in their time.And Beethoven's titanic influence stretched over the entire nineteenth century like a sunbeam across the vast expanse of sea. Romanticism's roster of composers who were eager heirs to Beethoven's mighty legacy include Berlioz, Schumann, Schubert, Liszt, Rossini, Brahms, Paganini, Meyerbeer, Wagner, Richard Strauss, Mendelssohn, Verdi, Glinka, Bruckner, Mahler, Stravinsky, & Schoenberg.

Not to mention primarily non-musical figures such as Goethe, E.T.A. Hoffmann, Tolstoy, Vladimir Lenin, Queen Victoria & Prince Albert, Adolph Hitler, the Allied forces during WWII, & Stanley Kubrick.

All shaped the posthumous portrait of Beethoven as the Promethean hero, the demigod.

[markolas]

I'm remembering the impact on my life and childhood. The Jackson Five and later MJ were huge. As I said before, losing MJ and Farrah in one day is quite a jolt for any 70's child. Much has been said about the other stuff. I just don't want to go there right now. I'd rather just linger a bit in memories of a golden time when it seemed things were simpler and yet quite magical.

I think I'm just a hair too young to get what the big deal was about Farrah Fawcett - I think I was like 2 when Charlie's Angels went off the air. Anything from the '70s freaked me out when I was little, for some reason. :laugh: MJ was def. a fixture throughout my childhood, tho I remember him just as much for his personal oddities as for his music.

[Livia]

I'm supposed to be getting ready to go out, but I've been glued to VH1 Classic for the last 90 minutes - they're running videos all weekend.

I agree w/ David, I do prefer MJ's vocals from earlier in his career. As soon his death was confirmed, the radio station I had on played "I Want You Back." I've got a Jackson 5 greatest hits CD and my favorite track on there is "Who's Loving You."

I went to my favorite BBQ joint for lunch yesterday - when I walked in, a Jackson 5 song was playing. I asked the cashier if they were playing nothing but MJ songs or if it was a coincidence. He said they had the 70s station on and it was just coincidence (the next song was Clapton). I almost lost it, but I haven't cried at all until today.

No one on the planet can dance like him. I was just noticing that even when Michael would dance in a group, and they were all doing the same moves, he stood out amongst them - his moves were always sharper and just popped more. I don't think that was intentional, for the other dancers to hold back, Michael was just so much better.

I can't believe I don't own Thriller. Now I want the 25th Anniv. edition.

[GoldDustBoy]

This is amazing... 52 of his songs are currently on the itunes top 100... I hope his kids benefit from this since he was in such a bad financial position.

[TrueFaith77]

This is amazing... 52 of his songs are currently on the itunes top 100... I hope his kids benefit from this since he was in such a bad financial position.

I am happy, of course, that these sales figures evidence people's need to reconnect with personal memories of MJ. However, I'm saddened that in the upsurge, HIStory and Blood On The Dance Floor (the towering achievements of his recording career) are showing little movement. I honestly think that it was the public rejection of those two works that killed his spirit, more than any of the allegations, legal woes, drugs, personal problems. Hopefully, someday, they will be (re)discovered. Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad bring back my childhood -- the unique era where the pop landscape was dominated by ONE man. However, HIStory, Vol. 1 and HIStory, Vol. 2: Blood On The Dance Floor, while continuing to yield discoveries, represent the works that first awakened my political, artistic consciousness. I think those were the albums that taught me how to LISTEN to music. And the development, musically and thematically, is so extreme that, clearly, Michael knew the difference too. He tried to use his appeal earned from those first three albums to take the popular audience into deeper territory.

I hope, eventually, history catches up to HIStory.

[LukeA]

I am happy, of course, that these sales figures evidence people's need to reconnect with personal memories of MJ. However, I'm saddened that in the upsurge, HIStory and Blood On The Dance Floor (the towering achievements of his recording career) are showing little movement.

They aren't selling because people don't know much about them- the sales uptick is largely nostalgia-driven, and you can't be nostalgic about something you're wholly unaware of.

That, along with those releases being wildly uneven.

[The Chain]

I hope, eventually, history catches up to HIStory.

The new material on HIStory disc 2 is great, some of my favorite :nod:
Scream, Money, Earth Song. His lyrical abilities were seeming to blossom at this time, subject matter was politicol, relevant as opposed to just your typical pop love song. It's a shame this time period turned out the way it did for MJ. I think we could have had seen more great, consistent records, more intellegent records from the king o' pop had the 90s been different for him.

[strandinthewind]

Here is the wiki on History:

Chart performance

"HIStory" debuted at number-one on the Billboard 200 and Top R&B/Hip-Hop Albums charts selling over 391,000 copies in its first week.[21][22] The album was certified seven times platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America on October 22, 1999 in recognition of 3.5 million shipments in the United States.[23] Multi-disc albums are counted once for each disc within the album if it is over 100 minutes in length, in this case "HIStory" is 148:50 minutes long. It is counted twice meaning each album was certified platinum after 500,000 copies were shipped. The Canadian Recording Industry Association certified it 5× platinum after shipping in excess of 500,000 units.[24]

In Europe, the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry certified "HIStory" six times platinum, denoting six million shipments within the continent. Meanwhile, in the United Kingdom, the album debuted at number-one on the official albums chart and was certified four times platinum by the British Phonographic Industry for shipments of 1.2 million copies.[25] In France, "HIStory" became Jackson's fourth diamond-seller album after Dangerous (1991), Bad (1987) and Thriller (1982), denoting sales of over one million units.[26] In addition, Germany was the European country where the double-disc set sold the most, over 1.5 million copies, being certified three times platinum by the IFPI.[27]

"HIStory" has sold over twenty million copies worldwide[28] and, according to Access Hollywood, is the best-selling multiple-disc album of all-time.[29]

20 million world wide is very good, though his past records did better http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Records_and_achievements_of_Michael_Jackson

[becca]

"if you take Michael Jackson out of the equation, we would be without a lot of people who found their way to entertainment."

Most of those people I have never been interested in while noting many are very talented in their ways (Paula Abdul, Madonna, Mariah Carey, Justin Timberlake, Britney Spears New Kids, Spice Girls, Garth Brooks even). Like a previous commentor I am not into the big splashy coreographed stage pop show thing for whatever reason. Vintage Queen would be as far as I'd go I suppose. A lot of his dance moves seemed to me to have been drawn pretty directly from James Brown, but I will take it his dancing was entertaining and influential to a ton of people if a shade less than James Brown. Musically I can comment though. I had a load of funk and disco records around me in the '70s and '80s as my brother was a DJ. I would have to rank Michael Jackson and The Jacksons circa 1975-1986 as generally up there with Kool & The Gang, Dazz Band, Gap Band, Earth Wind & Fire, Prince, Rick James, Boney M... you get the idea. He owed a lot to Stevie Wonder and to Quincy Jones. Of the first hit solo album as an adult his name is on song credits for two tracks and a co-credit on one. Paul McCartney and David Foster contributed as well as Stevie Wonder, but three songs are by Rod Temperton. King of pop? Hyperbole. Barry Gibb in terms of songwriting would probably be a fit holder of that title if not Elton John or Paul McCartney. Jackson was no genius, and he took from a lot of people who came before besides James Brown. No James Brown, no Michael to be king of pop, totally impossible. No Smokey Robinson, again no Michael. That is saying a lot. Unless you just don't know who those two people are you can't possibly say otherwise. Who was bigger than Michael besides them was and is Stevie Wonder. Simply a fact. He didn't make hit videos and have the massive hype machine but aside from that he beats Michael in every way other than sales of one single album. More songs, more albums, more hits over a longer time period, more influential (Erykah Badu, India Aire, Jamiroquai, Angie Stone and other more substantive creative people).

Now Elvis did a lot, but he was a popularizer to whites, an interpreter of other people's music on a scale of Frank Sinatra or Bing Crosby. Elvis didn't play an instrument, didn't write hardly anything, was not even the first white guy to have a hit with covers of already popular r&b race records (Bill Haley had several nationally before the hillbilly cat from Memphis had even a regional hit single, plus had some originals in the style that were also hits). But it is true, no Elvis no Rock & Roll as we white folks know it, this they have right... but no Michael Jackson you would probably lose Prince and Madonna and a load of teenybopper flashy nothings backed by even heavier synthesizers mostly. Michael Jackson in the light of the funk and disco music of the late '70s to middle '80s is one of the tops, '80s dance also one of the tops, but outside of that he is not so much honestly. Nowhere near Smokey Robinson, James Brown or Stevie Wonder in import and influence, probably not even equal to Marvin Gaye or Curtis Mayfield musically speaking. He was extremely popular for a very short time, the life span of two heavily produced albums involving literally a hundred other people. Abba and the Bee Gees made music every bit as world-wide popular for a longer time, much longer for the Bee Gees if you start at 1967, never mind The Beatles, Bob Marley or The Rolling Stones. Basically where pop music is concerned I can think of as many as fifty more likely kings. They may've had a bit less marketing muscle or flash of some kind but substance-wise there is not all that much to Michael Jackson's actual music, and not really worthy of the term genius if you had a funk and dance music record collection of any depth. Even in sales I have to think Smokey Robinson with his work covered by so many has outshone Jackson, I'm not aware of too many Jackson authored songs covered or recorded by anybody else. I was going to say Pebbles but that hit MJ song was written by Stevie Wonder...

I've always had a problem with the Jackson hype being too overblown and it's annoying to hear these claims yet again mostly from the ignorant part of the same mass media machinery.

[strandinthewind]

. . . He was extremely popular for a very short time, the life span of two heavily produced albums involving literally a hundred other people . . . .

Actually, Michael was the clear stand out star from the J5 (one of the biggest pop-music phenomena of the 1970s) and they began singing in 1966. He also maintained huge popularity through 2008 as in 12 weeks Thriller 25 sold over three million copies worldwide. As of November 2008, US sales of Thriller 25 stood at 688,000 copies, making it the best-selling catalog album of 2008, with 774,000 copies in the US. So, this, the sales in the millions of History and Blood on the Dance Floor in the mid and late 90's, the very successful world tour for History, the rather unprecedented upcoming London dates (which sold out in minutes) , the massive public outpouring of grief in the last few days, and the Elvis like current and instant rise in his record sales - clearly indicate MJ was popular for more than a very short time :shrug:

Also - he wrote several of the songs in Thriller and no matter how much anyone else produced those songs, they were not on that stage thrilling people with those dance moods. And, they all acknowledge MJ's talent.

In the end, there was and will be no one like MJ. Does that make him better than the people you mentioned or negate the opinions you stated? IMO it does not. It does, however, demonstrate MJ was a very talented man who touched the hearts of many just like Lennon, Elvis, etc. - which you seem not to be acknowledging.

[strandinthewind]

And Beethoven's titanic influence stretched over the entire nineteenth century like a sunbeam across the vast expanse of sea. Romanticism's roster of composers who were eager heirs to Beethoven's mighty legacy include Berlioz, Schumann, Schubert, Liszt, Rossini, Brahms, Paganini, Meyerbeer, Wagner, Richard Strauss, Mendelssohn, Verdi, Glinka, Bruckner, Mahler, Stravinsky, & Schoenberg.

Not to mention primarily non-musical figures such as Goethe, E.T.A. Hoffmann, Tolstoy, Vladimir Lenin, Queen Victoria & Prince Albert, Adolph Hitler, the Allied forces during WWII, & Stanley Kubrick.

All shaped the posthumous portrait of Beethoven as the Promethean hero, the demigod.

Well said!

[strandinthewind]

This is amazing... 52 of his songs are currently on the itunes top 100... I hope his kids benefit from this since he was in such a bad financial position.

I know - but - here is an article on the assets he had, which were huge:

The King’s Ransom

Though years of excessive spending had left Michael Jackson deep in debt, the star's estate should eventually be profitable.
Johnnie L. Roberts
Newsweek Web Exclusive

Michael Jackson died this week while preparing for a 50-night schedule of shows at London's 02 Arena that were scheduled to begin in July. The concerts would have been Jackson's first since 2001, and he was doing them in part for a simple reason: he desperately needed the money.

During his life, Jackson sold hundreds of millions of records, and his musical legacy should easily have led him to amass one of the greatest fortunes in show-business history. But instead, a history of bad management, excessive personal spending, and big legal bills left him, at his death, facing continual rumors that he might file for bankruptcy. "After all is said and done, he was almost broke," one close associate told NEWSWEEK. "He needed to do this tour." In the hours after his death, NEWSWEEK spoke with three sources who'd been close to Jackson and involved in his finances, and though their views differ in some respects, they agree that the crisis-ridden financial life he left behind is almost certain to remain as murky and complex as it's been since the mid- to late 1990s.

Jackson's financial problem stems from the fact he continued to spend tens of millions of dollars a year even as his musical output—and his income—slowed down. (His last album, Invincible, was released in 2001.) In recent years Jackson financed these personal debts by borrowing against assets, and by some estimates his total borrowings at his death may have exceeded $400 million. And it wasn't all personal spending: according to record-industry executives, Jackson would drop as much as $30 million recording an album over two or three years in his quest for perfection. His videos cost as much as $8 million. While Sony picked up part of the tab, Jackson was responsible for a hefty portion. "I hold everyone around him responsible," says a former associate. "No one said no. They said, 'Yes, Michael, yes, Michael.' "

According to two of Jackson's former advisers, Sony Music Group, his most pivotal business partner and record label, will likely end up owning his most valuable musical asset: his share of Sony/ATV Music Publishing. A joint venture that Jackson and Sony formed 14 years ago, Sony/ATV owns 750,000 era-spanning hits and classics; its most prized asset is the song rights to most of the works of the Beatles, which Jackson managed to stealthily purchase in 1985 for $47.5 million—a deal that destroyed his friendship with Paul McCartney. In the music industry's 1990s heyday, Sony/ATV might have been worth as much as $1.5 billion, according to the Jackson associates who spoke with NEWSWEEK. Its value in today's recessionary global economy is anyone's guess. One of Jackson's associates says Sony/ATV's value might have plunged to $500 million; a second simply says it's worth "a big number." Jackson's share of the joint venture, in which both he and Sony once had equal stakes, may now be less than 25 percent, one of the associates told NEWSWEEK.

Compounding his woes, the lucrative publishing catalog of Jackson's hits, MiJac, is also encumbered by massive loans, one of the confidants told NEWSWEEK. MiJac is administered by Warner Chappell, a division of Warner Music Group.

Jackson's business associates and family aren't officially commenting on his financial affairs. A spokesperson for Sony/ATV declined to speak on any financial matters beyond describing the publishing operation as a 50-50 joint venture. Expressing his condolences in a prepared statement, Martin Bandier, Sony/ATV's CEO, called Jackson "a trusted and passionate partner, who was very proud of our accomplishments." As for the status of Jackson's stake, the spokesman would only say, "There are specific beneficiaries of that asset." In a statement, Jackson's attorney, Joel Katz, commented generally on his business affairs, noting that Jackson was involved extensively in the preparations for the London concerts. "Michael Jackson was a perfectionist, and his business affairs are worldwide," Katz said. "Many of them are quite ongoing and will be dealt with appropriately."

While there's no denying Jackson's grim financial circumstances, others in his financial life say future earnings from his recordings and assets may largely offset his debts and leave him with a significant estate. "His legacy has a better chance of being preserved for his estate than ever before," a key adviser said this morning. "I don't think people understand the significance of his assets." According to this source, Jackson's publishing assets generate $50 million to $75 million a year. He collects a share of it, which is split with his partners. Sales of his past recordings easily yield another $5 million annually. At one point, Jackson was spending up to $20 million a year, however, and his mountainous debt had to be serviced from the proceeds, too. With his death, that spending will end, of course.

At the same time, Jackson's estate is likely to be caught up in the mother of all probate cases. That, this source says, will help buy time "for things to right themselves," especially given the explosion of income that his assets will now begin to generate. The estate "will earn tremendous amounts over the next few years, as would be the case when any legendary talent like Michael passes," this person says. "He's an icon like Marilyn Monroe and Elvis," says Keith Estabrook of the public-relations firm Estabrook Group. Larry Mestel, CEO and founder of music publisher Primary Wave, agrees. As lead of the Jackson 5, a quintet that included his brothers, and as a solo artist, Jackson "made some of the most incredible music," Estabrook says. "Like many of the greats, it will last for an enormous time." Jackson also leaves behind an uncounted trove of unreleased recordings, many of which may now be released.

Although the Los Angeles County medical examiner is conducting an autopsy to determine the exact cause of Jackson's death, his associates believe the financial pressures he faced were likely an indirect cause. Whatever health or substance-abuse problems Jackson had can't have been helped by the daily six-hour rehearsals he'd been doing for the upcoming concerts, which were made necessary by his frayed finances. "That had to be completely overwhelming," says one close associate. In the past decade Jackson's deteriorating finances had assumed a prominent role—alongside the surgical masks, unending cosmetic surgeries, childlike behaviors, and alleged molestations—in Jackson's eccentric, troubled public persona. In the hours after his death, Jackson would likely have been encouraged that most of the public focus has remained where he would have wanted it: on his music.

At James Brown's funeral a few years ago, standing alongside Al Sharpton at the open casket, Jackson spoke to the reverend about legacies: "When a legend dies, maybe he will get in death what he didn't get in life in terms of credit." Recalling that story today to NEWSWEEK, Sharpton added, "I hope that's true for Michael."

URL: http://www.newsweek.com/id/204011

[sara1998]

Actually, Michael was the clear stand out star from the J5 (one of the biggest pop-music phenomena of the 1970s) and they began singing in 1966. He also maintained huge popularity through 2008 as in 12 weeks Thriller 25 sold over three million copies worldwide. As of November 2008, US sales of Thriller 25 stood at 688,000 copies, making it the best-selling catalog album of 2008, with 774,000 copies in the US. So, this, the sales in the millions of History and Blood on the Dance Floor in the mid and late 90's, the very successful world tour for History, the rather unprecedented upcoming London dates (which sold out in minutes) , the massive public outpouring of grief in the last few days, and the Elvis like current and instant rise in his record sales - clearly indicate MJ was popular for more than a very short time :shrug:

Also - he wrote several of the songs in Thriller and no matter how much anyone else produced those songs, they were not on that stage thrilling people with those dance moods. And, they all acknowledge MJ's talent.

In the end, there was and will be no one like MJ. Does that make him better than the people you mentioned or negate the opinions you stated? IMO it does not. It does, however, demonstrate MJ was a very talented man who touched the hearts of many just like Lennon, Elvis, etc. - which you seem not to be acknowledging.

Great points. Thank you.

[trackaghost]

Thank god for Becca and Gerald. I hate it when someone dies everyone suddenly such a huge fan.

[Hawkeye]

Thank god for Becca and Gerald. I hate it when someone dies everyone suddenly such a huge fan.


Heh I only commented on how I felt this would spark Edge of 17 part 2. This whole death thing hasn't really affected me, I still don't like MJ's music and don't see his "genius"

His death has made me even happier to still have Stevie and enjoy every 20 second new song clip she throws at us :laugh:

[becca]

Stevie Wonder stayed in his community, employs people in his community, built and didn't wall himself off in mansions like Michael and O.J. Same with Smokey and many others who don't blow their own horn or draw attention to themselves like many others. I see the fruits of people influenced by them and compare and their fruits are lasting, Michael did not and will not. He made dance music about zombies and people trying to get money from him and his self-absorbed loss of his childhood. He did not overcome, he has not prevailed, except on white bankers pieces of paper. Thank you for this space and I've said all I want to now. Think about people homeless families on the street of your town or in Tehran fighting for scraps of freedom instead of this entertainer who overdosed and who many that crossed his path in real life have some very bad things to say about.

[goldustboi]

Stevie Wonder stayed in his community, employs people in his community, built and didn't wall himself off in mansions like Michael and O.J. Same with Smokey and many others who don't blow their own horn or draw attention to themselves like many others. I see the fruits of people influenced by them and compare and their fruits are lasting, Michael did not and will not. He made dance music about zombies and people trying to get money from him and his self-absorbed loss of his childhood. He did not overcome, he has not prevailed, except on white bankers pieces of paper. Thank you for this space and I've said all I want to now. Think about people homeless families on the street of your town or in Tehran fighting for scraps of freedom instead of this entertainer who overdosed and who many that crossed his path in real life have some very bad things to say about.

I'm not sure what you're saying here - are you implying that MJ hasn't influenced others? If you are then I'd say you need to watch the BET awards which are a tribute to MJ and find out about all the artists (ranging from Justin Timberlake to Coldplay) who are expressing their interest in performing at other tribute shows.

How can you trivialise Thriller as 'a dance song about zombies'? The album was the biggest seller of all time before the video was even made and the video itself completely revolutionised music video. His influence is literally everywhere. MTV would not be the same without MJ - before 1983 MTV refused to play videos by black artists, until the vid for Billie Jean came along and they had no choice.

I'm glad other people are now starting to appreciate 'MJs music after years of it being overshadowed by his private life. As for the homeless people on the street, MJ has done more than his fair share for people less priveliged than himself - he's in the Guiness book of records for being the celebrity whose donated more money to charity than any other.

[sparky]

The entire clown show that is unfolding, and will likely explode like an atom bomb over the next few months in the wake of MJ's death fascinates me.

Even the responses in this thread are interesting.

The news shocked me in some way, but it did not surprise me. For many years now, MJ has been a circus freak. His eccentricities and scandal had come to overshadow his talent so much that most people had forgotten the enormity of his popularity and the massive machine that sprung up around the empire his success created.

I never liked his music very much. At his peak, I found him annoying, hyper produced and so full of the vocal ticks David pointed out that his singing made my flesh crawl.

But, in hindsight, his career at that time was utterly huge. I did not know a single soul who was a big fan, but the brouhaha that surrounded him in those glory years still makes every other pop phenomenon look dinky and like a flash in the pan.

But none of this death parade has much to do with that.

Ultimately, I think Michael Jackson has ended up having been a bit player in his own life. The real drama of this concerns what he represented. The reaction to his death says more about the machinery of the media, the star making process, and his fans and detractors than it says about him.

The devotion I always saw, and now see again in his fans boggles the mind. But it smacks of the same flavor that chiffonheads exhibit.
More than anything, he was wounded. Even his most aggressive songs had vocals that carried a tinge of sadness and the ferocity always looked to be coming from the POV of a person who only struck back because they had been trod upon. It isn't particularly unique or even interesting for an artist who comes across as primarily weak and wounded to have a large following. Many extremely popular artists give off that vibe.

But the way his story has unfolded is that archetype amplified in screaming technicolor and exploded in our faces. He really was a sad human being who was utterly unequipped to deal with the consequences of his fame and financial success. And people eat that **** up.

The way all the vultures swooped in on him, and will continue to swoop in is a train wreck of historic proportions. Here comes that charlatan Al Sharpton. On his heels is the opportunistic and utterly shameless Jesse Jackson. And his family, who he had evidently shunned to a large degree, is swooping in with exposed claws and gnashing teeth to pick the emaciated, surgery scarred carcass clean.

It all takes on such a grandly symbolic, historic passion play scope and the stars of the show are greed, exploitation, dishonesty, avarice, and the greatest hits of the seven deadly sins.

The poor man was doomed the second he was filmed and recorded way back at the beginning of his career in the Jackson 5. Ironically, it seems that the only people born with gifts that vast are utterly unequipped to survive all that such talent will bring. It eats them alive.

And human beings, by our very nature, seem to love nothing more than to watch them combust, self destruct and splatter into the sky in a fury of blood and guts.

It isn't a new story. Shakespeare wrote it, so did Sophocles, and the story is in the text of every religious text that exists.

It is who we are as humans. It is what we do.

I think his story is in the same vein as all the great tragic stories
ever written and lived. He just played the part.

And the audience for such a performance will never be lacking.

[danax6]

I love you, Sparky.

[shackin'up]

I love you, Sparky.

I adore you Sparky. No, worship you.

:angel: :angel: :thumbsup: :angel: :angel:





serious: thet's the best post about this man. I haven't read something like it anywhere yet. Very cool.

[TrueFaith77]

"if you take Michael Jackson out of the equation, we would be without a lot of people who found their way to entertainment."


No Michael Jackson = No Scritti Politti

[BombaySapphire3]

So Michael and Latoya aren't the same person after all?!

[skcin]

The entire clown show that is unfolding, and will likely explode like an atom bomb over the next few months in the wake of MJ's death fascinates me.

Even the responses in this thread are interesting...


I see his death moved you enough to post here. :cool:

[JWS]

The entire clown show that is unfolding, and will likely explode like an atom bomb over the next few months in the wake of MJ's death fascinates me.


The way all the vultures swooped in on him, and will continue to swoop in is a train wreck of historic proportions. Here comes that charlatan Al Sharpton. On his heels is the opportunistic and utterly shameless Jesse Jackson. And his family, who he had evidently shunned to a large degree, is swooping in with exposed claws and gnashing teeth to pick the emaciated, surgery scarred carcass clean.




You just knew they would come. At every black tragedy, Sharpton and Jesse "Johnny on the spot" to stick their nose into it for their own self-promotion. Next lined up are the lawyers and accountants to get a piece. And, this quack "doctor" from Texas who gave up his "practice " to go on Jackson's payroll...then fled the scene like a hit-and-run. The whole thing is one big mess that will take years to play out.

[sparky]

I love you, Sparky.

Vanessa!

I see his death moved you enough to post here.

I want to make a reference to Frank's Red Hot but can't manage the right joke.

The whole thing is one big mess that will take years to play out.

I am predicting a decade. Just in time for the kids' tell all books to come out and then we will watch the whole thing erupt anew.

[gldstwmn]

Thank god for Becca and Gerald. I hate it when someone dies everyone suddenly such a huge fan.

That's not it. We are losing an iconic part of our childhood, therefore the loss is personal. If you didn't grow up with the Jackson 5 and MJ then maybe you just don't get it. But it's certainly not your place to sit in judgement of the grief of others. I don't know maybe you have to be American to understand this. :shrug:

[gldstwmn]

Stevie Wonder stayed in his community, employs people in his community, built and didn't wall himself off in mansions like Michael and O.J. Same with Smokey and many others who don't blow their own horn or draw attention to themselves like many others. I see the fruits of people influenced by them and compare and their fruits are lasting, Michael did not and will not. He made dance music about zombies and people trying to get money from him and his self-absorbed loss of his childhood. He did not overcome, he has not prevailed, except on white bankers pieces of paper. Thank you for this space and I've said all I want to now. Think about people homeless families on the street of your town or in Tehran fighting for scraps of freedom instead of this entertainer who overdosed and who many that crossed his path in real life have some very bad things to say about.

Come down from your ivory tower already.

[gldstwmn]

I'm glad other people are now starting to appreciate 'MJs music after years of it being overshadowed by his private life. As for the homeless people on the street, MJ has done more than his fair share for people less priveliged than himself - he's in the Guiness book of records for being the celebrity whose donated more money to charity than any other.

Thank you.

[gldstwmn]

So Michael and Janet aren't the same person after all?!

Makes you wonder:

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[gldstwmn]

You just knew they would come. At every black tragedy, Sharpton and Jesse "Johnny on the spot" to stick their nose into it for their own self-promotion. Next lined up are the lawyers and accountants to get a piece. And, this quack "doctor" from Texas who gave up his "practice " to go on Jackson's payroll...then fled the scene like a hit-and-run. The whole thing is one big mess that will take years to play out.

Daddy Money Joe Jackson's speech on the red carpet at the BET Awards was just gross to watch.

[JWS]

I am predicting a decade. Just in time for the kids' tell all books to come out and then we will watch the whole thing erupt anew.

There is probably already a movie in the works. Look for it this Fall. Some kind of book will hit shelves in a few weeks. These books have already been written. They just fill in death details in the last chapter. There were Elvis books out in the market in just days.

[carrie721]

That's not it. We are losing an iconic part of our childhood, therefore the loss is personal. If you didn't grow up with the Jackson 5 and MJ then maybe you just don't get it. But it's certainly not your place to sit in judgement of the grief of others. I don't know maybe you have to be American to understand this. :shrug:

i can't speak for sharon so i don't know if she was talking about anyone specifically in this thread, but her comment can certainly be applied to the MSM, who mocked and pilloried MJ for years ... until now. that's what i find really appalling.

[strandinthewind]

That's not it. We are losing an iconic part of our childhood, therefore the loss is personal. If you didn't grow up with the Jackson 5 and MJ then maybe you just don't get it. But it's certainly not your place to sit in judgement of the grief of others. I don't know maybe you have to be American to understand this. :shrug:

plus - as I mentioned earlier, MJ, despite all his bad press and litigation nightmares, sold out 50 concerts in the same city in a matter of minutes. That and the other stats I posted earlier indicates that he had and maintained a very loyal fan base up until his death. Moreover, the press has presented his faults as well as accolades during these past few days.

In the end, the world has many truly talented people who inspired and were beloved by many. To judge the best of them is subjective. Not to include Michael Jackson in the top few is ridiculous.

[GODDESS6]

That's not it. We are losing an iconic part of our childhood, therefore the loss is personal. If you didn't grow up with the Jackson 5 and MJ then maybe you just don't get it. But it's certainly not your place to sit in judgement of the grief of others. I don't know maybe you have to be American to understand this. :shrug:

i agree w/ you 100%~ just because michael died, doesn't mean all of a sudden i am going to jump on the fan bandwagon~ he does however have quite a few songs throughout my life that i really like & will contine to do so~ but anyone who was a child in the 70's knew how huge he was then, as was farrah & having them both pass on the same day was eerie & i also felt a huge part of my childhood die:shrug:~

i was just starting to grieve for farrah when the news of michael hit & it was hard to hear it, that is all, it is still surreal to me~

[trackaghost]

That's not it. We are losing an iconic part of our childhood, therefore the loss is personal. If you didn't grow up with the Jackson 5 and MJ then maybe you just don't get it. But it's certainly not your place to sit in judgement of the grief of others. I don't know maybe you have to be American to understand this. :shrug:

Chris, I wasn't really talking about anyone in this thread, most of whom seem to be genuine fans, so I understand why you are all upset and I apologize if it came across the wrong way. I just appreciated reading Becca and Gerald's comments because they never were fans and suddenly didn't pretend to be just because Jackson is now dead.

i can't speak for sharon so i don't know if she was talking about anyone specifically in this thread, but her comment can certainly be applied to the MSM, who mocked and pilloried MJ for years ... until now. that's what i find really appalling.

Exactly. While a lot of people here may have thought they were being disrespectful, I just appreciated that Becca and Gerald were consistent in their opinions about the man that was unaffected by the hypocritical media coverage.

[becca]

Well, this guy and the massively exaggerated claims of greatness about him are being shoved down our throats yet again from every direction as we're told the whole world is in mourning. I thought he said it best himself with "Just Leave Me Alone" and "Beat It"? What a waste of so much time and money. No money for charity organizations desperately needed but which are going under, yet somehow billions for the same old dance-pop product available right now for free everywhere via all mediums?

But anyway, another thought, the white socks thing was famous from a '50s or early '60s movie... I think it was Syd Charise but possibly even Audrey Hepburn or Judy Garland. A very famous scene where she is dancing in white socks and black outfit. Just like James Brown moonwalking people have blocked that out in the glare of the man with a 'special' love for children nobody else can understand bleaching his skin. If this was a genius or something so positive I'm glad to be a negative idiot, but not so stupid to waste anymore time on this.

A note about John Lennon before I go; the image of the white suited peace and love spokesman is in major contradiction to his actions at the same time against the McCartneys (public name-calling and causing them major financial hardship for awhile), but then he was a negative and sometimes violent man disliked by many all along. This is the guy who kicked a bleeding Stu Sutcliffe in the head in Hamburg because he wanted to leave his group, repeatedly with his steel toed cowboy boot so badly it left a dent in Sutcliffe's skull according to a German autopsy report. Months of headaches and dizzyness culminated in his death as we know. I'm not supposed to say this either as it upsets raving Beatlemaniacs and yet it is true.

[strandinthewind]

^

Step away from the crackpipe!

:cool:

Seriously, you are entitled to your opinion, but that does not your opinion grounded in realty or in any supported by any facts. Now, how are things in Tehran or have you been to busy nursing and feeding the poor to check?

[Stew_Matthews]

$22m to Jordan Chandler. That has always undermined his credibilty,

[gldstwmn]

But anyway, another thought, the white socks thing was famous from a '50s or early '60s movie... I think it was Syd Charise but possibly even Audrey Hepburn or Judy Garland. A very famous scene where she is dancing in white socks and black outfit. Just like James Brown moonwalking.


James never moonwalked. He did have a killer shuffle move that probably gave birth to the moonwalk.
And as far as borrowing, ALL artists are influenced by others. Otherwise there would be no art.

[gldstwmn]

He did not overcome, he has not prevailed, except on white bankers pieces of paper.

Again, you may not get this because you are not American but the minute Michael put Eddie Van Halen on Beat It in 1982 he broke a barrier.

Also, with regards to your earlier comment about Elton John being a songwriter, Bernie Taupin was 1/2 of that partnership. He wrote lyrics and later gave them to Elton who put a melody to them.

And with your gross Lennon comment, I do see now that you're into the grave pissing. It's been 4 days and MJ's body is cold now so I guess it's time to commence.

[strandinthewind]

$22m to Jordan Chandler. That has always undermined his credibilty,

Perhaps as a human being. But, that did not negate his brilliance as an artist. Moreover, you never know why people settle lawsuits. To him then, that likely was the actual cost of the litigation fee. The prolonged trial, however, likely would have cost him more. The child's statement was given under the influence of a controversial drug and the desciption of MJ's penis was not an exact match. Moreover, the father was hardly a saint in the proceedings having invited Jackson to build a wing on their house so he could spend more time with them.

But, a settlement is seen by many not as the financial calculation it is - but, as an admission of guilt. Interestingly, public opinon of Jackson remained positive but as the father used the media it began to waver. Thus, IMO the settlement. People do strange things when the smell lots of money.

[Stew_Matthews]

Again, you may not get this because you are not American

.....I'm sure we're not worthy:)......but we get to use this board!

If you check out the BBC (UK) or if you speak Italian, French or German and check out their press today, the theme is the same. Sad he's dead for his families sake, sad he had a difficult upbringing but............. he shared a bed with adolescent boys and paid the family of one $22m. Sadly that is overshadowing the brilliant talent he had.

[becca]

I apologize for being unpleasant here, I'm taking out some frustrations where I shouldn't. A lot of people are seeing budgets for social services cancelled and unable to get the time of day from the media because their stories aren't 'sexy' enough. My anger is more at the U.S. led/inspired media giants right now than Michael Jackson or anyone here who likes his music. I really do not enjoy seeing and hearing that person so much, especially Canadian and Britsh media down to the local level. I'm not on any kind of social assistance myself or in any trouble, except for being angry the last few days I guess. Again, sorry, I will try harder to avoid this current phase of preoccupation by others.

[HejiraNYC]

A most fascinating article in yesterday's Daily Mail. Yes, it is one of those lurid British tabloids, but the article seems so thoroughly researched and well written- and it helps to try to explain some of this madness. For me it crystallized the absolute absurdity of these 50 London concerts. This was a frail 50-year-old man who had not sung a note or performed live on a stage in nearly a decade. I know we give Mama a lot of grief over her unwillingness to record new music, but at least we know she can still sting and perform. But we haven't heard a peep from MJ since basically 2001. Sure, there's been plenty of tumult and drama in the ensuing years that would have hampered his ability to make music. But there's also been lots of down time, e.g., his year in Bahrain. So why didn't he record new music? Simple- he couldn't. I suspect that he or his people saw that Britney Spears was getting away with performing live without singing a single note, so they probably saw the opportunity to make a BIG cash grab- the bigger the risk, the bigger the reward, as the old saying goes.


Anyway, here it is:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196009/Im-better-dead-Im-How-Michael-Jackson-predicted-death-months-ago.html

'I'm better off dead. I'm done': Michael Jackson's fateful prediction just a week before his death


By Ian Halperin
Last updated at 3:58 PM on 29th June 2009

Whatever the final autopsy results reveal, it was greed that killed Michael Jackson. Had he not been driven – by a cabal of bankers, agents, doctors and advisers – to commit to the gruelling 50 concerts in London’s O2 Arena, I believe he would still be alive today.

During the last weeks and months of his life, Jackson made desperate attempts to prepare for the concert series scheduled for next month – a series that would have earned millions for the singer and his entourage, but which he could never have completed, not mentally, and not physically.

Michael knew it and his advisers knew it. Anyone who caught even a fleeting glimpse of the frail old man hiding beneath the costumes and cosmetics would have understood that the London tour was madness. For Michael Jackson, it was fatal.

I had more than a glimpse of the real Michael; as an award-winning freelance journalist and film-maker, I spent more than five years inside his ‘camp’.

Many in his entourage spoke frankly to me – and that made it possible for me to write authoritatively last December that Michael had six months to live, a claim that, at the time, his official spokesman, Dr Tohme Tohme, called a ‘complete fabrication’. The singer, he told the world, was in ‘fine health’. Six months and one day later, Jackson was dead.

Some liked to snigger at his public image, and it is true that flamboyant clothes and bizarre make-up made for a comic grotesque; yet without them, his appearance was distressing; with skin blemishes, thinning hair and discoloured fingernails.

I had established beyond doubt, for example, that Jackson relied on an extensive collection of wigs to hide his greying hair. Shorn of their luxuriance, the Peter Pan of Neverland cut a skeletal figure.

It was clear that he was in no condition to do a single concert, let alone 50. He could no longer sing, for a start. On some days he could barely talk. He could no longer dance. Disaster was looming in London and, in the opinion of his closest confidantes, he was feeling suicidal.

To understand why a singer of Jackson’s fragility would even think about travelling to London, we need to go back to June 13, 2005, when my involvement in his story began.

As a breaking news alert flashed on CNN announcing that the jury had reached a verdict in Jackson’s trial for allegedly molesting 13-year-old Gavin Arvizo at his Neverland Ranch in California, I knew that history had been made but that Michael Jackson had been broken – irrevocably so, as it proved.
Nor was it the first time that Michael had been accused of impropriety with young boys. Little more than a decade earlier, another 13-year-old, Jordan Chandler, made similar accusations in a case that was eventually settled before trial – but not before the damage had been done to Jackson’s reputation.

Michael had not helped his case. Appearing in a documentary with British broadcaster Martin Bashir, he not only admitted that he liked to share a bed with teenagers, mainly boys, in pyjamas, but showed no sign of understanding why anyone might be legitimately concerned.

I had started my investigation convinced that Jackson was guilty. By the end, I no longer believed that.

I could not find a single shred of evidence suggesting that Jackson had molested a child. But I found significant evidence demonstrating that most, if not all, of his accusers lacked credibility and were motivated primarily by money.

Jackson also deserved much of the blame, of course. Continuing to share a bed with children even after the suspicions surfaced bordered on criminal stupidity.

He was also playing a truly dangerous game. It is clear to me that Michael was homosexual and that his taste was for young men, albeit not as young as Jordan Chandler or Gavin Arvizo.

In the course of my investigations, I spoke to two of his gay lovers, one a Hollywood waiter, the other an aspiring actor. The waiter had remained friends, perhaps more, with the singer until his death last week. He had served Jackson at a restaurant, Jackson made his interest plain and the two slept together the following night. According to the waiter, Jackson fell in love.

The actor, who has been given solid but uninspiring film parts, saw Jackson in the middle of 2007. He told me they had spent nearly every night together during their affair – an easy claim to make, you might think. But this lover produced corroboration in the form of photographs of the two of them together, and a witness.

Other witnesses speak of strings of young men visiting his house at all hours, even in the period of his decline. Some stayed overnight.

When Jackson lived in Las Vegas, one of his closest aides told how he would sneak off to a ‘grungy, rat-infested’ motel – often dressed as a woman to disguise his identity – to meet a male construction worker he had fallen in love with.

Jackson was acquitted in the Arvizo case, dramatically so, but the effect on his mental state was ruinous. Sources close to him suggest he was close to complete nervous breakdown.

The ordeal had left him physically shattered, too. One of my sources suggested that he might already have had a genetic condition I had never previously come across, called Alpha-1 antitrypsin deficiency – the lack of a protein that can help protect the lungs.

Although up to 100,000 Americans are severely affected by it, it is an under-recognised condition. Michael was receiving regular injections of Alpha-1 antitrypsin derived from human plasma. The treatment is said to be remarkably effective and can enable the sufferer to lead a normal life.

But the disease can cause respiratory problems and, in severe cases, emphysema. Could this be why Jackson had for years been wearing a surgical mask in public, to protect his lungs from the ravages of the disease? Or why, from time to time, he resorted to a wheelchair? When I returned to my source inside the Jackson camp for confirmation, he said: ‘Yeah, that’s what he’s got. He’s in bad shape. They’re worried that he might need a lung transplant but he may be too weak.

‘Some days he can hardly see and he’s having a lot of trouble walking.’

Even Michael Jackson’s legendary wealth was in sharp decline. Just a few days before he announced his 50-concert comeback at the O2 Arena, one of my sources told me Jackson had been offered £1.8million to perform at a party for a Russian billionaire on the Black Sea.

‘Is he up to it?’ I had asked.

‘He has no choice. He needs the money. His people are pushing him hard,’ said the source.
Could he even stand on a stage for an hour concert?

‘He can stand. The treatments have been successful. He can even dance once he gets in better shape. He just can’t sing,’ said the aide, adding that Jackson would have to lip-synch to get through the performance. ‘Nobody will care, as long as he shows up and moonwalks.’

He also revealed Jackson had been offered well over £60million to play Las Vegas for six months. ‘He said no, but his people are trying to force it on him. He’s that close to losing everything,’ said the source.

Indeed, by all accounts Jackson’s finances were in a shambles. The Arvizo trial itself was a relative bargain, costing a little more than £18million in legal bills.

But the damage to his career, already in trouble before the charges, was incalculable. After the Arvizo trial, a Bahraini sheikh allowed Jackson to stay in his palace, underwriting his lavish lifestyle. But a few years later, the prince sued his former guest, demanding repayment for his hospitality. Jackson claimed he thought it had been a gift.

Roger Friedman, a TV journalist, said: ‘For one year, the prince underwrote Jackson’s life in Bahrain – everything including accommodation, guests, security and transportation. And what did Jackson do? He left for Japan and then Ireland. He took the money and moonwalked right out the door. This is the real Michael Jackson. He has never returned a phone call from the prince since he left Bahrain.’

Although Jackson settled with the sheikh on the eve of the trial that would have aired his financial dirty laundry, the settlement only put him that much deeper into the hole. A hole that kept getting bigger, but that was guaranteed by Jackson’s half ownership of the copyrights to The Beatles catalogue. He owned them in a joint venture with record company Sony, which have kept him from bankruptcy.

‘Jackson is in hock to Sony for hundreds of millions,’ a source told me a couple of months ago. ‘No bank will give him any money so Sony have been paying his bills.

‘The trouble is that he hasn’t been meeting his obligations. Sony have been in a position for more than a year where it can repossess Michael’s share of the [Beatles] catalogue. That’s always been Sony’s dream scenario, full ownership.

‘But they don’t want to do it as they’re afraid of a backlash from his fans. Their nightmare is an organised 'boycott Sony' movement worldwide, which could prove hugely costly. It is the only thing standing between Michael and bankruptcy.’

The source aid at the time that the scheduled London concerts wouldn’t clear Jackson’s debts – estimated at almost £242million – but they would allow him to get them under control and get him out of default with Sony.

According to two sources in Jackson’s camp, the singer put in place a contingency plan to ensure his children would be well taken care of in the event of bankruptcy.

‘He has as many as 200 unpublished songs that he is planning to leave behind for his children when he dies. They can’t be touched by the creditors, but they could be worth as much as £60million that will ensure his kids a comfortable existence no matter what happens,’ one of his collaborators revealed.

But for the circle of handlers who surrounded Jackson during his final years, their golden goose could not be allowed to run dry. Bankruptcy was not an option.

These, after all, were not the handlers who had seen him through the aftermath of the Arvizo trial and who had been protecting his fragile emotional health to the best of their ability. They were gone, and a new set of advisers was in place.

The clearout had apparently been engineered by his children’s nanny, Grace Rwaramba, who was gaining considerable influence over Jackson and his affairs and has been described as the ‘queen bee’ by those around Jackson.

Rwaramba had ties to the black militant organisation, the Nation of Islam, and its controversial leader, Louis Farrakhan, whom she enlisted for help in running Jackson’s affairs.

Before long, the Nation was supplying Jackson’s security detail and Farrakhan’s son-in-law, Leonard Muhammad, was appointed as Jackson’s business manager, though his role has lessened significantly in recent years.

In late 2008, a shadowy figure who called himself Dr Tohme Tohme suddenly emerged as Jackson’s ‘official spokesman’.

Tohme has been alternately described as a Saudi Arabian billionaire and an orthopaedic surgeon, but he is actually a Lebanese businessman who does not have a medical licence. At one point, Tohme claimed he was an ambassador at large for Senegal, but the Senegalese embassy said they had never heard of him.

Tohme’s own ties to the Nation of Islam came to light in March 2009, when New York auctioneer Darren Julien was conducting an auction of Michael Jackson memorabilia.

Julien filed an affidavit in Los Angeles Superior Court that month in which he described a meeting he had with Tohme’s business partner, James R. Weller. According to Julien’s account, ‘Weller said if we refused to postpone [the auction], we would be in danger from 'Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam; those people are very protective of Michael'.

He told us that Dr Tohme and Michael Jackson wanted to give the message to us that 'our lives are at stake and there will be bloodshed'.’

A month after these alleged threats, Tohme accompanied Jackson to a meeting at a Las Vegas hotel with Randy Phillips, chief executive of the AEG Group, to finalise plans for Jackson’s return to the concert stage.

Jackson’s handlers had twice before said no to Phillips. This time, with Tohme acting as his confidant, Jackson left the room agreeing to perform ten concerts at the O2.

Before long, however, ten concerts had turned into 50 and the potential revenues had skyrocketed. ‘The vultures who were pulling his strings somehow managed to put this concert extravaganza together behind his back, then presented it to him as a fait accompli,’ said one aide.
‘The money was just unbelievable and all his financial people were telling him he was facing bankruptcy. But Michael still resisted. He didn’t think he could pull it off.’

Eventually, they wore him down, the aide explained, but not with the money argument.
‘They told him that this would be the greatest comeback the world had ever known. That’s what convinced him. He thought if he could emerge triumphantly from the success of these concerts, he could be the King again.’

The financial details of the O2 concerts are still murky, though various sources have revealed that Jackson was paid as much as £10million in advance, most of which went to the middlemen. But Jackson could have received as much as £100million had the concerts gone ahead.

It is worth noting that the O2 Arena has the most sophisticated lip synching technology in the world – a particular attraction for a singer who can no longer sing. Had, by some miracle, the concerts gone ahead, Jackson’s personal contribution could have been limited to just 13 minutes for each performance. The rest was to have been choreography and lights.

‘We knew it was a disaster waiting to happen,’ said one aide. ‘I don’t think anybody predicted it would actually kill him but nobody believed he would end up performing.’

Their doubts were underscored when Jackson collapsed during only his second rehearsal.

‘Collapse might be overstating it,’ said the aide. ‘He needed medical attention and couldn’t go on. I’m not sure what caused it.’

Meanwhile, everybody around him noticed that Jackson had lost an astonishing amount of weight in recent months. His medical team even believed he was anorexic.

‘He goes days at a time hardly eating a thing and at one point his doctor was asking people if he had been throwing up after meals,’ one staff member told me in May.

‘He suspected bulimia but when we said he hardly eats any meals, the doc thought it was probably anorexia. He seemed alarmed and at one point said, 'People die from that all the time. You’ve got to get him to eat.'’

Indeed, one known consequence of anorexia is cardiac arrest.

After spotting him leave one rehearsal, Fox News reported that ‘Michael Jackson’s skeletal physique is so bad that he might not be able to moonwalk any more’.

On May 20 this year, AEG suddenly announced that the first London shows had been delayed for five days while the remainder had been pushed back until March 2010. At the time, they denied that the postponements were health-related, explaining that they needed more time to mount the technically complex production, though scepticism immediately erupted. It was well placed.
Behind the scenes, Jackson was in rapid decline. According to a member of his staff, he was ‘terrified’ at the prospect of the London concerts.

‘He wasn’t eating, he wasn’t sleeping and, when he did sleep, he had nightmares that he was going to be murdered. He was deeply worried that he was going to disappoint his fans. He even said something that made me briefly think he was suicidal. He said he thought he’d die before doing the London concerts.

‘He said he was worried that he was going to end up like Elvis. He was always comparing himself to Elvis, but there was something in his tone that made me think that he wanted to die, he was tired of life. He gave up. His voice and dance moves weren’t there any more. I think maybe he wanted to die rather than embarrass himself on stage.’

The most obvious comparison between the King of Pop and the King of Rock ’n’ Roll was their prescription drug habits, which in Jackson’s case had significantly intensified in his final months.
‘He is surrounded by enablers,’ said one aide. ‘We should be stopping him before he kills himself, but we just sit by and watch him medicate himself into oblivion.’

Jackson could count on an array of doctors to write him prescriptions without asking too many questions if he complained of ‘pain’. He was particularly fond of OxyContin, nicknamed ‘Hillbilly heroin’, which gave an instant high, although he did not take it on a daily basis.

According to the aide, painkillers are not the only drugs Jackson took.

‘He pops Demerol and morphine, sure, apparently going back to the time in 1984 when he burned himself during the Pepsi commercial, but there’s also some kind of psychiatric medication. One of his brothers once told me he was diagnosed with schizophrenia when he was younger, so it may be to treat that.’

His aides weren’t the only ones who recognised that a 50-concert run was foolhardy. In May, Jackson himself reportedly addressed fans as he left his Burbank rehearsal studio.

‘Thank you for your love and support,’ he told them. ‘I want you guys to know I love you very much.
'I don’t know how I’m going to do 50 shows. I’m not a big eater. I need to put some weight on. I’m really angry with them booking me up to do 50 shows. I only wanted to do ten.’

One of his former employees was particularly struck by Jackson’s wording that day. ‘The way he was talking, it’s like he’s not in control over his own life any more,’ she told me earlier this month. ‘It sounds like somebody else is pulling his strings and telling him what to do. Someone wants him dead.
'They keep feeding him pills like candy. They are trying to push him over the edge. He needs serious help. The people around him will kill him.’

As the London concerts approached, something was clearly wrong. Jackson had vowed to travel to England at least eight weeks before his first shows, but he kept putting it off.

‘To be honest, I never thought Michael would set foot on a concert stage ever again,’ said one aide, choking back tears on the evening of his death.

‘This was not only predictable, this was inevitable.’

On June 21, Jackson told my contact that he wanted to die. He said that he didn’t have what it would take to perform any more because he had lost his voice and dance moves.

‘It’s not working out,’ Jackson said. ‘I’m better off dead. I don’t have anywhere left to turn. I’m done.’
Michael’s closest confidante told me just two hours after he died that ‘Michael was tired of living. He was a complete wreck for years and now he can finally be in a better place. People around him fed him drugs to keep him on their side. They should be held accountable.’

Michael Jackson was undoubtedly a deeply troubled and lonely man. Throughout my investigation, I was torn between compassion and anger, sorrow and empathy.

Even his legacy is problematic. As I have already revealed, he has bequeathed up to 200 original songs to his three children, Prince Michael, aged 12, Paris Katherine, 11, and Prince Michael II (also known as Blanket), seven. It is a wonderful gift.

Yet I can reveal that his will, not as yet made public, demands that the three of them remain with Jackson’s 79-year-old mother Katherine in California. It promises an ugly row.

Ex-wife Deborah Rowe, the mother of the eldest two, has already made it clear to her legal team that she wants her children in her custody, immediately.

The mother of the third child has never been identified. I fully expect that it will emerge that the children had a ‘test tube’ conception, a claim already made by Deborah Rowe.

Michael Jackson may very well have been the most talented performer of his generation, but for 15 years that fact has been lost to a generation who may remember him only as a grotesque caricature who liked to share his bed with little boys. Now that he’s gone, maybe it’s time to shelve the suspicions and appreciate the music.

Unmasked: The Final Years of Michael Jackson by Ian Halperin is published by Transit Publishing in the UK at £14.99 and Pocket Books in the US at $24. To order your copy at the special price of £13.50 with free p&p, call The Review Bookstore on 0845 155 0713.

[Stew_Matthews]

Perhaps as a human being. But, that did not negate his brilliance as an artist. Moreover, you never know why people settle lawsuits. To him then, that likely was the actual cost of the litigation fee. The prolonged trial, however, likely would have cost him more. The child's statement was given under the influence of a controversial drug and the desciption of MJ's penis was not an exact match. Moreover, the father was hardly a saint in the proceedings having invited Jackson to build a wing on their house so he could spend more time with them.

But, a settlement is seen by many not as the financial calculation it is - but, as an admission of guilt. Interestingly, public opinon of Jackson remained positive but as the father used the media it began to waver. Thus, IMO the settlement. People do strange things when the smell lots of money.

Lawyer aside:) you are a very decent man!

I could never (and I think most men would agree) pay off someone who said I slept with their child. I can't comprehend circumstances when I would do that and neither can any of my friends. Your name and self respect is all you have really at the end of the day.

I understand how US law works but had he defended the Chandler case and won, he would never have faced the cases that followed in 1995.

I have never had chance to weigh up the 'evidence' but my instinct says that I would have fought the allegations down to my last cent.

[trackaghost]

I could never (and I think most men would agree) pay off someone who said I slept with their child. I can't comprehend circumstances when I would do that and neither can any of my friends. Your name and self respect is all you have really at the end of the day.

I understand how US law works but had he defended the Chandler case and won, he would never have faced the cases that followed in 1995.

I have never had chance to weigh up the 'evidence' but my instinct says that I would have fought the allegations down to my last cent.

I loved Michael Jackson as a kid, but I have to say that's my exact feelings on the matter. I can't really listen to his music in the same way now.

[HejiraNYC]

Lawyer aside:) you are a very decent man!

I could never (and I think most men would agree) pay off someone who said I slept with their child. I can't comprehend circumstances when I would do that and neither can any of my friends. Your name and self respect is all you have really at the end of the day.

I understand how US law works but had he defended the Chandler case and won, he would never have faced the cases that followed in 1995.

I have never had chance to weigh up the 'evidence' but my instinct says that I would have fought the allegations down to my last cent.

Just my $0.02, but back then I believe he had a new album and tour to promote, so I suspect that he nor his people would have wanted a prolonged, scandalous trial. And heaven forbid the ****storm that would have ensued from a guilty verdict. Ultimately, innocent or guilty, I don't think MJ's career would have withstood a full trial. It's bad enough that MJ will forever be known as the peddler of 'Jesus Juice' to young boys. I'm sure far worse details that would have emerged at trial.

[strandinthewind]

Lawyer aside:) you are a very decent man!

I could never (and I think most men would agree) pay off someone who said I slept with their child. I can't comprehend circumstances when I would do that and neither can any of my friends. Your name and self respect is all you have really at the end of the day.

I understand how US law works but had he defended the Chandler case and won, he would never have faced the cases that followed in 1995.

I have never had chance to weigh up the 'evidence' but my instinct says that I would have fought the allegations down to my last cent.

I cannot tell you how many times people have said to me or other lawyers I know that they will spend their last dime defending their name, etc. Then, they realize the cost and cave. I mean $22 million to MJ then was comparatively $500 to us normal folks when you consider the trial would have taken years and he likely could not work during much of that time. So, I think he made what at the time was a smart business decision.

But, to each their own. I mean had he fought it and won - he likely stood to gain more. However, he did Spend the $$$ and win in 2005 and it did not make him more popular. Etc. So, who knows.

In the end, the 2005 jury saw past the freakish looking grown man who sleepovers with kids and found MJ not guilty.

I think the facts supported neither case - but, there was clearly something creepy about MJ notwithstanding. Do I think he molested little boys - probably not in that there were too many people around. But, that is just my opinion.

[gldstwmn]

.....I'm sure we're not worthy:)......but we get to use this board!

If you check out the BBC (UK) or if you speak Italian, French or German and check out their press today, the theme is the same. Sad he's dead for his families sake, sad he had a difficult upbringing but............. he shared a bed with adolescent boys and paid the family of one $22m. Sadly that is overshadowing the brilliant talent he had.

I know. :)

[Stew_Matthews]

Just my $0.02, but back then I believe he had a new album and tour to promote, so I suspect that he nor his people would have wanted a prolonged, scandalous trial. And heaven forbid the ****storm that would have ensued from a guilty verdict. Ultimately, innocent or guilty, I don't think MJ's career would have withstood a full trial. It's bad enough that MJ will forever be known as the peddler of 'Jesus Juice' to young boys. I'm sure far worse details that would have emerged at trial.

Yep - I get your point. But in life there is always a line to be drawn. Being accused of child abuse isn't a comercial consideration - it is something you would want to defend to your last breath (imo). Jackson didn't have Altzimers, he made the calls himself - his reputation would have been enhanced if he'd taken a different approach (maybe).

[LukeA]

Yep - I get your point. But in life there is always a line to be drawn. Being accused of child abuse isn't a comercial consideration - it is something you would want to defend to your last breath (imo). Jackson didn't have Altzimers, he made the calls himself - his reputation would have been enhanced if he'd taken a different approach (maybe).

I think that's debatable. Example- if you believe what Michael publicly stated in the last days/months of his life, he had no knowledge of/interest in extending the London run from 10 shows to as many as 50. Of course he has people acting on his behalf, but AEG sure as hell wouldn't have committed to the project if they didn't have every assurance that they needed that Michael was on board for all 50.

When it comes to legal matters/contracts/obligations, Michael was no mastermind. You can't really presume anything with him.

[Stew_Matthews]

I cannot tell you how many times people have said to me or other lawyers I know that they will spend their last dime defending their name, etc. Then, they realize the cost and cave. I mean $22 million to MJ then was comparatively $500 to us normal folks when you consider the trial would have taken years and he likely could not work during much of that time. So, I think he made what at the time was a smart business decision.

But, to each their own. I mean had he fought it and won - he likely stood to gain more. However, he did Spend the $$$ and win in 2005 and it did not make him more popular. Etc. So, who knows.

In the end, the 2005 jury saw past the freakish looking grown man who sleepovers with kids and found MJ not guilty.

I think the facts supported neither case - but, there was clearly something creepy about MJ notwithstanding. Do I think he molested little boys - probably not in that there were too many people around. But, that is just my opinion.

My bro runs Google's legal firm so I get the point of making a deal even when you're right/innocent.

However the charge in this case was particularly serious. I get the Chandlers were after cash and the evidence may have been inadmissible in a court room in 2009. I get there were witnesses who supported MJ but………

………..the worst thing I could be accused of (as a father of 3) is abusing kids. As I posted earlier I just couldn’t ‘settle’ out of court cos I had a lucrative tour coming up. I’d have to defend myself - it is the worst thing anyone could say about you. I just don’t understand why he didn't take a stand if he was innocent……..

[Stew_Matthews]

I think that's debatable. Example- if you believe what Michael publicly stated in the last days/months of his life, he had no knowledge of/interest in extending the London run from 10 shows to as many as 50. Of course he has people acting on his behalf, but AEG sure as hell wouldn't have committed to the project if they didn't have every assurance that they needed that Michael was on board for all 50.

When it comes to legal matters/contracts/obligations, Michael was no mastermind. You can't really presume anything with him.

Good point about 2009 when he was desperate to raise cash and full of drugs (it would seem) but.........

.....we're talking about 1993/95. A lot of his complex Sony deals were done around this time and I think he knew what he was doing.........

[shackin'up]

When he was a youngster, he had a great R&B voice: pliable, pyrotechnic, swinging.

As an adult, he developed a series of mannerisms -- hiccups, warbly vibrato, breathiness -- that marred his singing, to my ears.

If I may say so: as a youngster -and I mean KID here, he was a great singer and even dancer. His mannerisms came soon: not only in his singing, but also in his dancing. All those hooked movements, the pulling up of trousers, his hand on his weeny ( I can't simply type "d*ck here in the case of this "man". AGAIN: if you are so talented it is a pity that you stick to just some format. And after Ben he never ever wrote one decent ballad anymore. All kitsch. Brrrr.

[shackin'up]

BTW: I never hated the man personally until he hung his newborn kid out of the hotelwindow. That is not a deranged popstar. That is a firstclass nutcase, who will never/ever have my advantage of the doubt in his sexual harrassment cases.

[LukeA]

Good point about 2009 when he was desperate to raise cash and full of drugs (it would seem) but.........

.....we're talking about 1993/95. A lot of his complex Sony deals were done around this time and I think he knew what he was doing.........

Jackson checked into rehab in Fall '93 due to his increasing addiction to painkillers- apparently spurred by stress due to Chandler's allegations that publicly surfaced summer of that year.

I have no doubt that his involvement with these drugs at this point helped to influence the settlement in the hopes that it would make it all (the addictions included) go away.

[strandinthewind]

Jackson checked into rehab in Fall '93 due to his increasing addiction to painkillers- apparently spurred by stress due to Chandler's allegations that publicly surfaced summer of that year.

I have no doubt that his involvement with these drugs at this point helped to influence the settlement in the hopes that it would make it all (the addictions included) go away.

I think so too - though at the time I thought the rehab thing was BS.

I also think that at the time he say History coming out and did not want to do anything to jeopardize it and the cash cow it turned out to be. The Double Album History sold 20 million (40 million in units) world wide and the tour was wildly successful. So, what was $22 million (some of which may have been covered by Sony who was heavily invested in the record - but who knows) in those terms?

[strandinthewind]

. . . who will never/ever have my advantage of the doubt in his sexual harrassment cases.

Did you read the facts of the cases?

They hardly portray a credible claimant and/or their parents :shrug:

Thus, though MJ was a nutcase, he likely did not molest those children. They are two sep. issues :shrug:

[David]

The Double Album History sold 20 million (40 million in units) world wide and the tour was wildly successful. Ah, but was Jackson the toast of the Congress of Vienna?

[strandinthewind]

^^

I have no clue :cool:

[SNLB]

I've got a Jackson 5 greatest hits CD and my favorite track on there is "Who's Loving You."

I've told this story several times since I heard about Michael Jackson passing. I've heard his music throughout my lifetime. I like some of his songs and although I didn't follow him, say, like Fleetwood Mac, I own a few of his cds. Years ago, during a miniseries about Michael Jackson, I heard him sing a song for the first time. I asked my sister what the song was as she knew more about MJ's music than I do, and she told me it was Who's Lovin' You. This is not a song that is really my cup of tea (give me The Love You Save, Music And Me, Beat It, or The Way You Make Me Feel any day!), but I could NOT believe what was coming out of that kid's mouth! Here was this 10 year old kid with a vocal take of a 40 year old on a big old blues song. It floored me. I took my iPod to work and even had a couple of people listen to the song.

Like him or not, Micheal Jackson was a huge talent. His dancing alone speaks for itself. He did all right in the music department too. Rest in peace, Michael.

[strandinthewind]

This was in 2001 - he is 42 and IMO still fantastic. He works MSG like he's a roman candle. Look at the people crying in the audience. Look at the sheer joy on the faces of almost everyone.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/p2nTSbHfJvk&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/p2nTSbHfJvk&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

The man had issues in his life, performing to enthrall was not one of them :shrug:

[bucklind17]

^ ^ ^

I was just watching that vid and part of your avatar was still showing. Even Hillary, Obama and Biden are bopping along to MJ! ;)

[strandinthewind]

^ ^ ^

I was just watching that vid and part of your avatar was still showing. Even Hillary, Obama and Biden are bopping along to MJ! ;)

I know - I saw that too :laugh:

Interestingly, I defy anyone to watch that and not smile at least once, or tap their toe in time, etc. The man could do it like no other IMO :cool:

[trackaghost]

However the charge in this case was particularly serious. I get the Chandlers were after cash and the evidence may have been inadmissible in a court room in 2009. I get there were witnesses who supported MJ but………

………..the worst thing I could be accused of (as a father of 3) is abusing kids. As I posted earlier I just couldn’t ‘settle’ out of court cos I had a lucrative tour coming up. I’d have to defend myself - it is the worst thing anyone could say about you. I just don’t understand why he didn't take a stand if he was innocent……..

That's how I feel too. I just can't think of a worse allegation and all I would be able to think about is trying to clear my name. And the fact he put himself in that position to be accused again (by hanging out with kids, even after he became a father, and sleeping in a bed with a child who wasn't his) strikes me as someone who can't control himself.
This is just my gut feeling about it and it has forever tainted his music for me.

[strandinthewind]

He did clear his name with second accusations. So, I guess it is the '94 that one that bothers people.

Interestingly, the father in the first case gave his son controversial drugs and arguably suggested the entire thing to his son. Moreover, what kind parent settles this kind of suit. Seemingly any responsible parent would not want this to happen again and jail for the molester would be the only option.

In any event, people should read the facts and conclude for themselves. Sadly, people in general and not referring to people here rely on the media which is not an accurate source.

[vivfox]

The media is not an accurate source.
It's not?
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd169/cielosharon/24e87edf1ebeabdbdb5271b87ad856f3.jpg

[strandinthewind]

Bless her heart

[Livia]

This is my favorite Billy Jean - I love the robot things he does beginning at the 5:00 mark - and again after the moonwalk.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RPDZiyimdqg&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RPDZiyimdqg&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Zombie]

^^^^

Anyone else end up with a "Sex Offender Registry" ad on that second Billie Jean video? Oy. Google's algorithms sure are interesting sometimes.

I was never a huge MJ fan or anything, but I liked watching him dance, and I will always and forever love the long version of "Smooth Criminal" from Moonwalker.

Everything about this video is amazing to me.

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/c-WVpQ0ZG8Q&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/c-WVpQ0ZG8Q&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

Love it. MJ was a smooth pimp indeed back in the day.

As an aside, my life has been punctuated by that song - or rather, just the chorus - because my name is Annie.

I suffer way too many "Annie, are you okay?" jokes way too often, including one 2 year stint in which my roommate came home from work every. single. day and inquired, in a placid, conversational tone, "Annie? Are you okay? Are you okay, Annie?"

"YES I AM FINE GOD WILL YOU EVER KNOCK THAT OFF."

"Well, I just wanted to make sure you hadn't been hit by and/or struck by a smooth criminal. "

Every. Single. Day.

It was always the "and/or" that made me laugh and prevented me from killing him.

[LukeA]

I've always been fond of "Smooth Criminal"- song and video.

I always assumed that the "Annie are you okay" was a play on words re: Annie Oakley. Or am I the only person who thought that? (apparently, the original setting for the video was to be the wild west, so maybe I'm on to something :p)

[TrueFaith77]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1196369/New-pictures-Michael-Jackson-hard-work-rehearsing-just-days-died.html


1. It is expected that when released this [the recording of the final concert rehearsal] could become one of the star’s biggest selling works. It is understood filming took place last Wednesday during Jackson’s rehearsals at the Los Angeles Staples Centre for the 50-date This Is It tour. It remains unclear who has official ownership of the footage. A spokesman for concert promoter AEG declined to comment. It is expected that the star’s estate will make more money in the next year from his music than he did in the last decade of his life.

2. The king of pop’s family will release a series of posthumous albums, starting this Christmas. It is understood Jackson wrote a number of songs for his three children, which were not to be released until after his death.

3. There are also songs left over from his last album, Invincible, released in 2001.


A tribute show is planned for September with Diana Ross, Bruce Springsteen, Stevie Wonder and Barbra Streisand said to be in talks to appear

1. Word is that Kenny "high school musical" Ortega directed the concert film!

2. I wonder if these are already tracklisted by Michael or if the family will decide what to do with them (Please God, don't let them turn them in to Jacksons albums! -- not that there's anything wrong with The Jacksons' output, but, you know. . . )

3. Yay! Maybe that album will finally be re-released! It's one of the best of the decade and deserves a re-evaluation.


Holy frickin' cow. This man will rule pop culture for the next 40 years.

[GODDESS6]

I've always been fond of "Smooth Criminal"- song and video.

I always assumed that the "Annie are you okay" was a play on words re: Annie Oakley. Or am I the only person who thought that? (apparently, the original setting for the video was to be the wild west, so maybe I'm on to something :p)

omg, it was bound to happen, we actually agree on something~ i love the "smooth criminal" video & michael's lean that he does in it~ catchy song too~

[strandinthewind]

In the SC video, his lean forward with no effect of gravity is acheived with strings. He recreated the effect live by designing shoes with special pegs in them that would grip one spot on the stage - brilliant :shrug:

[GODDESS6]

In the SC video, his lean forward with no effect of gravity is acheived with strings. He recreated the effect live by designing shoes with special pegs in them that would grip one spot on the stage - brilliant :shrug:

don't know if it's brilliant or not, but it sure the hell looked cool:nod:~

[trackaghost]

In any event, people should read the facts and conclude for themselves. Sadly, people in general and not referring to people here rely on the media which is not an accurate source.

I have read the facts and concluded for myself, thank you.

[shackin'up]

I have read the facts and concluded for myself, thank you.


me too. but the facts only made one clear interpretation possible says mister Strandinthecourt. I don't know if he's been framed. Fact is that he spent several nights/evenings in bed with kids. Fact is that he hung his kid out of the widow of his hotel. The guy's an idiot. Well, that only makes him someone I can't have faith in.

[strandinthewind]

I have read the facts and concluded for myself, thank you.

You are welcome. And, good thing you weren't on the 2005 jury, which aquitted MJ based largely on a lack of actual evidence and the prior history of extortion by the child's family. But, unlike the 1994 child's parents, the 2005 child's parents did not offer to let MJ move in with them, give their child heavy drugs to get the testimony, and then let the man who they said molested their son walk away free to do it again in exchange for setting them up financially for life.

[strandinthewind]

me too. but the facts only made one clear interpretation possible says mister Strandinthecourt. I don't know if he's been framed. Fact is that he spent several nights/evenings in bed with kids. Fact is that he hung his kid out of the widow of his hotel. The guy's an idiot. Well, that only makes him someone I can't have faith in.

Your faith in him has nothing to do with his talent, which he had lots of. Logs of creepy people are or were highly talented despite their creepiness :shrug:

[shackin'up]

Your faith in him has nothing to do with his talent, which he had lots of. Logs of creepy people are or were highly talented despite their creepiness :shrug: We were not at all talking about his talent. I never said that he didn't have talent. You are so good in tossing arguments around to something where I say"huh"? was that the topic? You do that as good as my girlfriend does. (May I ask you NEVER to isolate that last sentence and let it pop up in any other context?:thumbsup:)

At least "Standinthecourt"was the tease of the day, if I may say so myself.

[TrueFaith77]

I agree with pretty much everything strandinthewind has posted.

It was honor to bum rush the MSG stage with you.

[strandinthewind]

We were not at all talking about his talent. I never said that he didn't have talent. You are so good in tossing arguments around to something where I say"huh"? was that the topic? You do that as good as my girlfriend does. (May I ask you NEVER to isolate that last sentence and let it pop up in any other context?:thumbsup:)

At least "Standinthecourt"was the tease of the day, if I may say so myself.

I thought you earlier were arguing he had no talent - mea culpa

and meinthecourt was pretty fab.

[David]

I've always been fond of "Smooth Criminal"- song and video.

I always assumed that the "Annie are you okay" was a play on words re: Annie Oakley. Or am I the only person who thought that? You're the only person who thought that. But we like you anyway!

[markolas]

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31666253/ns/entertainment-access_hollywood/

This really chaps my ass.

So these kids were essentially bred like shih tzu puppies, and have no idea who their parents are. The one (marginal) parental figure they did have is dead, and now they're going to be handed over to Joe & Katherine Jackson (hey let's give them 3 more kids, since they did so well raising their own :rolleyes: )? Who, at closing in on 80 years old, will probably both be dead in 5 years and yet more custody battles will ensue.

MJ may have been talented, but he had no business having children, especially not in this manner. And what screwball doctor would agree to do this? This makes me so mad I could spit nails - why are these kids not in foster care?

[HejiraNYC]

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31666253/ns/entertainment-access_hollywood/

This really chaps my ass.

So these kids were essentially bred like shih tzu puppies, and have no idea who their parents are. The one (marginal) parental figure they did have is dead, and now they're going to be handed over to Joe & Katherine Jackson (hey let's give them 3 more kids, since they did so well raising their own :rolleyes: )? Who, at closing in on 80 years old, will probably both be dead in 5 years and yet more custody battles will ensue.

MJ may have been talented, but he had no business having children, especially not in this manner. And what screwball doctor would agree to do this? This makes me so mad I could spit nails - why are these kids not in foster care?

In ten years we're going to start seeing some very juicy tell-all books from these kids. I hope someone in the camp is assiduously interviewing these kids on video.

Ultimately I don't think there is anything wrong with what MJ did in terms of "acquiring" kids; it's perfectly legal to pay a surrogate to birth your children, e.g., SJ Parker and Matthew Broderick's recent twins. I just think it's hilarious that MJ really thought people were stupid enough to believe that he could have possibly fathered lily-white children with blue eyes/straight hair, let alone actually have relations with a woman. :rolleyes: There was never, ever any doubt (at least in my mind) that these kids were genetically unrelated to MJ. But was MJ a good father? He may have been naive and eccentric, but I would suspect that at the very least he was an affectionate, emotionally present parent who devoted the final years of his life to their well-being, which is a lot more than I could say about most parents.

It would be a shame if they did end up with the elder Jacksons, or even worse, get split up. The Jackson parents do seem to be awfully indifferent to what just happened- Joe is out pimping his new record label on TV while Katherine was spotted casually shopping at Target a couple of nights ago. First of all, what happened to the grieving; losing a child is the worst thing that could happen to a parent. Secondly, why is an 80-year-old scion of a musical dynasty pushing around a cart at Target? Doesn't she have a few hundred kids, grandkids and staff to do this for her? I can only imagine that they have done lost their marbles at this point- definitely not a good environment for the kids. I truly hope that they end up with the nanny who, by all accounts, seemed to be the only one in the Jackson camp with any common sense. And whatever happened to Rebe Jackson? :shrug:

[JWS]

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31666253/ns/entertainment-access_hollywood/

This really chaps my ass.

So these kids were essentially bred like shih tzu puppies, and have no idea who their parents are. The one (marginal) parental figure they did have is dead, and now they're going to be handed over to Joe & Katherine Jackson (hey let's give them 3 more kids, since they did so well raising their own :rolleyes: )? Who, at closing in on 80 years old, will probably both be dead in 5 years and yet more custody battles will ensue.

MJ may have been talented, but he had no business having children, especially not in this manner. And what screwball doctor would agree to do this? This makes me so mad I could spit nails - why are these kids not in foster care?

This is going down the same as Anna Nicole Smith.

[becca]

I've taken some time out to meditate. Everytime MJ is suddenly pushed in my face I've had a reexperience of something from my past so that I get part angry and part panicky. It's gotten confused with my own attackers getting credit for being accomplished at something and I guess I want to fight back and discredit any person like that. I wonder if coverage of Jackson brings that kind of stuff up for others? If I'd been ruined financially by some money guru I trusted perhaps Madoff coverage would be 'retraumatising'?

But... reading some of this stuff I called a waste of time maybe I can see it's possible Jackson could've been some kind of messed up person who couldn't relate in an adult way in some regards, and genuinely liked opportunities to function at a 12 year old level socially without any sexual assaulting going on. It's hard to imagine but... maybe. On the surface it sure looks like a powerful adult man using other people's kids and lavishing gifts etc., and I still think with his money he could've gotten serious help to grow out of it even if he was in denial about something. Way back before all the inforamtion I used to think maybe he should have a sex change, had a motherly type of love for kids, although the sexually aggressive wanting to seem tough dance moves seemed to contradict that.

Okay, I feel sorry for him a little now, I guess that's a change. I don't think I can enjoy or appreciate the music again like I did when Off The Wall first came out, and so for me he is just another funk-disco artist of the past like Carl Carlton or whoever.

[Livia]

I can see it's possible Jackson could've been some kind of messed up person who couldn't relate in an adult way in some regards, and genuinely liked opportunities to function at a 12 year old level socially without any sexual assaulting going on. It's hard to imagine but... maybe.


That's what I've always believed - that for awhile he had ceased to grow up, mentally, and lived as if he were between 10 and 12 years old. He was what, in his 20s, early 30s during the success of Thriller and Bad? After working his ass off since the age of 5? I think he'd reached a point where he had the money and time to just take a break, enjoy his success and get to experience the childhood he never had. To us, it was odd, but to him, it was making up for lost time. Imagine being 12, winning the lottery, being allowed to spend your money however you wanted, without any parents to tell you what you could or couldn't do. Who wouldn't want an amusement park in their back yard and a pet chimp?

There are LOTS of people out there who are addicted to plastic surgeries. But we don't hear about them because they're otherwise considered normal. People buy weirder **** on eBay than the Elephant Man's bones, but you rarely hear about them being ridiculed.

Sparky, I copied and pasted your post on another board, giving you full credit, of course. :xoxo:

[Zombie]

I've always been fond of "Smooth Criminal"- song and video.

I always assumed that the "Annie are you okay" was a play on words re: Annie Oakley. Or am I the only person who thought that? (apparently, the original setting for the video was to be the wild west, so maybe I'm on to something :p)

Haha, I always just thought the song was about a hitman offing some chick named Annie in her apartment. With the bloodstains. On the carpet.

But maybe it's a play on words, too. Who knows what lurked about in his brain?

[Ghost_Tracker]

For those of us who think this whole thing is going to be a big huge unprecedented mess,
and that most people just don't get it, about what a huge mess it's going to be - - -
I have a sneaky suspicion that we're not even close to getting it, yet...

There's an excellent article about the whole thing on the Time Magazine website:

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1907344-1,00.html

"Right now we could all use a selective memory wipe — a magical eraser to remove all the misery Michael Jackson endured and caused. Just for a minute, we'd like to have pure recollections of the thrilling dancer and singer who dominated '80s music, created the all-time best-selling album of new songs (Thriller) and seemed the very model of the cool dude with the sensitive soul. And we wouldn't mind feeling some uncomplicated warmth for the young Jacko who, as the Cupid and Kewpie doll of the Motown brother act the Jackson Five, displayed the charisma that marked him for future and, we thought, perpetual stardom. Why can't a pop icon's life and legacy be as easy as ABC? . . . .

...And now, in his early and sudden death, his mourners can see him as more sinned against than sinning. They might have used that magical memory wipe on themselves.

But as the first grieving fades, and all those people Jackson's lawyers paid to keep quiet get other people to pay for their stories, the tabloid tattling will return. The noise should be as instructive as it is ugly. It will force Michael Jackson's fans and foes to ask: Why must our stars fall so spectacularly and fail us so egregiously? Perhaps it's because we want them to. Indeed, it may be the primary function of celebrities like Jackson to show us, in their early radiance, what we could dream of being — and in the murk of their decline, what we fear we could become."

Anyway, it's come out that Jackson may not have been the biological father of ANY of the three kids...

[BTFLCHLD]

<object width="445" height="364"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/SgtWIx2zLtk&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SgtWIx2zLtk&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="445" height="364"></embed></object>




His father has proven to be a greedy f'kin PIG over and again.
Promoting his "new" record label at pressconferences relating to his son's death... :distress:

[Stew_Matthews]

You are welcome. And, good thing you weren't on the 2005 jury, which aquitted MJ based largely on a lack of actual evidence and the prior history of extortion by the child's family. But, unlike the 1994 child's parents, the 2005 child's parents did not offer to let MJ move in with them, give their child heavy drugs to get the testimony, and then let the man who they said molested their son walk away free to do it again in exchange for setting them up financially for life.

The jury made their decision and as they don't have to justify it, we don't actually know why they arrived at the conclusion they did. We have to respect it, we don't have to agree.

When it comes to the actual penalty, I can see why $22m is more attractive to the parents than seeing Jackson spend 50 years in San Quentin. Chandler (if he needed it) will have got much better support than many and as you say, is set up for life.

[strandinthewind]

The jury made their decision and as they don't have to justify it, we don't actually know why they arrived at the conclusion they did. We have to respect it, we don't have to agree.

When it comes to the actual penalty, I can see why $22m is more attractive to the parents than seeing Jackson spend 50 years in San Quentin. Chandler (if he needed it) will have got much better support than many and as you say, is set up for life.

The $22 million was more attractive because they were whores - pure and simple. As for taking care of their kid that they alleged to cared so much about, his father was a successful dentist - so, I am sure there was insurance :shrug:

In any event, the rumors are burning like wildfire on the net that Jordan Chandler is admitting he lied. Time will tell. But, if he is not, his parent sold him out and allowed a predator to remain on the loose. There's no two ways about that.

In any event, for those who want to read more on this case - here is a good starting point with references http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_child_sexual_abuse_accusations_against_Michael_Jackson

[Stew_Matthews]

Time will tell.

On that I agree.

[LikeAWillow]

In any event, the rumors are burning like wildfire on the net that Jordan Chandler is admitting he lied.

Wow. If it's true, it's too bad this couldn't have come out a week ago.

[David]

Wow. If it's true, it's too bad this couldn't have come out a week ago.
All this Michael Jackson stuff is funky.
What does it all mean? What does it all mean? What does it all mean?

[LikeAWillow]

All this Michael Jackson stuff is funky.
What does it all mean? What does it all mean? What does it all mean?

It took me over a thousand quotes, but I have finally been quoted by David.

[David]

It took me over a thousand quotes, but I have finally been quoted by David.David has always been watching you. . . .

[LikeAWillow]

David has always been watching you. . . .

Am I getting presents or coal this year?

[TrueFaith77]

MJ catharsis is here.
http://www.nypress.com/article-20022-in-mjrss-shadow.html
God Bless Armond White.

[David]

MJ catharsis is here.
http://www.nypress.com/article-20022-in-mjrss-shadow.html
God Bless Armond White.
Every so often, I read something about a movie by Armond White.

[fleetwoodtrick]

David has always been watching you. . . .

I've tried to ignore this thread, because even though I respect him and don't think he deserved to die so young, Micheal Jackson freaks me out. (I used to cry whenever he was on TV when I was like 3.) But this made me laugh. David, you stalker!! :]

[BTFLCHLD]

<object width="345" height="264"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Uo4lL1jK4vg&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x3a3a3a&color2=0x999999&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Uo4lL1jK4vg&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x3a3a3a&color2=0x999999&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="345" height="264"></embed></object>

<img src="http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/BTFLCHLD/GOODBYE/RIP.png">

[skcin]

^ Ugh. I hate that video & song. Creepy.


Some of you may want to head out there & pay your respects properly:
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20090701/NEWS/907010358/1001/NEWS

[Livia]

U2 dedicated "Angel of Harlem" to MJ at their opening show in Barcelona last night - they mixed "Man in the Mirror" and "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough" into it. I can't watch this yet 'cause I'm at work, but I just heard it mentioned on the radio, did a google search and found this vid:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jWHAUx31HY0&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jWHAUx31HY0&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[ShangriLaTroubl]

I was just re-reading the beginning of this thread, and it reminded me of an article I recently read after Jackson's passing. It was about how the web/blogs broke the news of Jackson's death, but traditional media CONFIRMED IT.

It's kind of an interesting point where we are at today in terms of the media. TMZ was the first to break the news of MJ's death, and while some took it as fact, others questioned it until the LA Times, CNN, NBC, etc. "confirmed it" (even in the beginning of this thread). The "traditional" media were behind the curve, some still saying he was "in a coma" etc.

[CelticGypsy]

I read that his ex-wife, Debbie, will try to gain custody of her two children and possibly the third child so they won't be separated. She's willing to undergo any testing necessary to prove she is their mother. She also wants the children kept away from Joseph Jackson which I totally agree with. Hopefully, she will get custody of those children. They need a normal upbringing away from Hollywood. Michael's parents messed up their kids and its best they don't mess up Michael's kids. Whatever financial agreement she had with Michael before his death, I feel she should be the one to raise those kids.


<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/michael%20jackson" target="_blank"><img src="http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f217/albertv8/Michael.jpg" border="0" alt="Michael Jackson Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>
RIP Michael

[The Chain]

Hmm.. don't know how convinced I am. Seems like she's just after money... again?

[LukeA]

I read that his ex-wife, Debbie, will try to gain custody of her two children and possibly the third child so they won't be separated. She's willing to undergo any testing necessary to prove she is their mother. She also wants the children kept away from Joseph Jackson which I totally agree with. Hopefully, she will get custody of those children. They need a normal upbringing away from Hollywood. Michael's parents messed up their kids and its best they don't mess up Michael's kids. Whatever financial agreement she had with Michael before his death, I feel she should be the one to raise those kids.


Its insane to think that just because Rowe is the biological parent of these children that they belong with her. Example- if a child is given up for adoption immediately after birth, and the adoptive parents die in a car crash, you're saying that if the biological mother petitioned for custody, she should deserve it over adoptive grandparents/aunts/uncles/designated godparents/etc? They have never met her & they have no clue who she is and, therefore (surprise) don't want to live with her.

She was compensated handsomely to serve as the egg donor/surrogate for the two children, and there likely were legal documents crafted where she agreed not to pursue custody in such a situation. Its pretty transparent that she only wants the kids for the money.

As for the "Hollywood" reasoning, I don't buy it. They will be fine with Katherine- who Michael loved dearly, and named in his will. Joseph lives in Las Vegas and is not in the picture at all. Its one of those situations where Michael's trust likely set aside money for Joseph with the explicit instructions to stay the F away.

Ultimately, Michael made his wishes crystal clear- and I happen to agree with them.

[CelticGypsy]

Katherine Jackson isn't able to take care of three young children. She's much too old to be providing for them until they're old enough to be on their own. She's in her late 70's. I don't know if you have kids Luke but they are a lot of responsibility and its a tough job being a full-time parent. I have grandchildren. I am only 52. NO way could I handle my three grandchildren full-time until they are 18 years old. That is why there isn't a lot of 52 or 79 year old MOMS out there in the world. haha It's a huge responsibility and a 24 hour job for many years!!! Katherine may be a wonderful grandmother but a mother to three children is a lot of responsibility and at her age, I don't think she can truely handle the everyday routine of taking care of three children. Yes, she could get nannies and so forth but I believe those kids should get to know their real mother too. I also don't believe that Joe Jackson is "out of Katherine's" life completely either. Maybe, I'd feel differently if Katherine had divorced Joe many, many years ago. If they had been estranged for 10 years why didn't she divorce him? Whatever happens, I wish the best for those kids. Michael Jackson was their father and I think he was a good father to them, the best that he could be. He should have kept Debbie Rowe Jackson in their lives so her children would have known her. He was married to her for three years. Whose to say the two oldest children never saw her or knew she is their mother? I'm really surprised that none of the Jackson siblings, Rebbie, Jackie, Tito, Jermaine, La-Toya, Marlon, Janet or Randy were named as godparents or guardians to those kids. At least I haven't heard about any of his siblings being that close to him other than Jermaine and Janet. Maybe, those kids should go live with Mark Lester or Barry Gibb who were also close friends to Michael before his death. Mark is a godfather to one of Michael's children and Michael was godfather to one of Barry's sons. It's up to the court to figure out who should raise those kids and who is physically able to be a full-time parent to three young children. Katherine may be a wonderful grandmother but her age will weigh a lot in a decision in court whether she's the best person to raise three young children. Each case if different.

[sparky]

I was driving home today and listening to my favorite misanthropes on the radio. They were railing against MJ, unlike everyone else in the media. They read this article out loud and my jaw just dropped. I was stunned a major media outlet would publish it. But I suspect it is what many people think but will not say. Pity I do not hear Howard Stern anymore, because I suspect he agrees and is turning in some fantastic radio on the subject. This was in the New York Post on July 2nd and was written by a woman named Linda Stasi.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

SHED NO TEARS FOR THIS TWISTED SICKO


You'd have thought by the media lovefest that the pope had died a tragic death after a lifetime of caring for lepers.

But, no, it was the death of Michael Jackson, a drug-addled, creepy-beyond-words, accused pedophile who literally bought his children with the help of two brood mares and, apparently, his dermatologist -- a group of amoral savages who had no problem giving their kids to a man who looked like the Phantom of the Opera and who behaved like a depraved worm.

You can call it "adoption," but I call it child-trafficking.

OK, I said it -- and it's about time somebody had the nerve to say what millions of people must feel and believe about the once-talented black man who turned himself into a white woman before turning himself into a monster.

But you'd never know any of that if you'd listened for the past week to the endless prattle from the sickening, fawning media and all those Hollywood music phonies who were crying crocodile tears over someone they'd mostly avoided like, well, a pedophile.

Even the president of the United States felt compelled to issue a statement. Are you kidding me?

I say all this not just as some casual bystander to the Michael Jackson freak show -- though I was a Jacko freak back in 1993, when I was as in awe of him as the rest of the world. But then one day, a friend came to see me at my office at another newspaper and everything changed.

"My cousin's boy's been hijacked by Michael Jackson," he said. He pulled out two photos of the boy, Jordie Chandler, with Jackson. They were dressed alike -- in fedoras, little black suits, each wearing one freaking glove. They were on a roller-coaster -- in Europe.

Jordie's mother had remarried, and his stepfather had introduced her to Jackson. Within weeks, the sleepovers among Jackson and her gorgeous 13-year-old son and 5-year-old daughter began. The boy broke down and told his father that he'd been molested at Jackson's playground, Neverland Ranch, and in Europe.

The dad, a dentist-to-the-stars and screenwriter, contacted authorities, and shortly thereafter was jumped and beaten bloody in a garage. His home was broken into, and thugs menaced patients in his waiting room. The authorities told him it might be best if he and his son disappeared for a while. They settled for more than $20 million. The father took the boy underground, and he had plastic surgery and disguised himself for safety. Dental practice destroyed, screenwriting career over, family in tatters.

Jackson walked free -- or as free as a tortured soul can be -- to repeat over and over again his hideous tricks with children at Neverland, a place straight out of "Hansel and Gretel."

It is in this very spot where his family wanted to put on their grotesque public display of his sadly emaciated, needle-marked body, reportedly to be dressed "like a prince," as though he has become one of the garish statues upon which he loved to drop millions in Las Vegas hotel tchotchke shops. Another circus of the macabre to add to the horror that became Michael Jackson's life.

This is the kind of madness that's followed Jackson's death -- everyone is acting as though the world has lost one of its greatest men.

The King of Pop was a great entertainer -- innovative beyond anyone the world had ever seen -- but he turned into a disgustingly depraved man who hung an infant off a balcony and forced his kids to walk around with masks, veils, towels and even nets over their faces.

Great men don't pretend to be childlike to disguise their depravities. Shameful.

The king is dead, and I for one am not crying.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Discuss.

[Remy]

Stevie Wonder stayed in his community, employs people in his community, built and didn't wall himself off in mansions like Michael and O.J. Same with Smokey and many others who don't blow their own horn or draw attention to themselves like many others. I see the fruits of people influenced by them and compare and their fruits are lasting, Michael did not and will not. He made dance music about zombies and people trying to get money from him and his self-absorbed loss of his childhood. He did not overcome, he has not prevailed, except on white bankers pieces of paper. Thank you for this space and I've said all I want to now. Think about people homeless families on the street of your town or in Tehran fighting for scraps of freedom instead of this entertainer who overdosed and who many that crossed his path in real life have some very bad things to say about.

Stevie Wonder enjoys a different kind of celebrity. He didnt have to wall himself off, because there was no risk of fans trampling him, which was the case anywhere Michael went.
As for your last sentence, it's definately noble to think about the needy, and even more noble to help them, which MJ did his whole life. no other singer gave away even near the amount he did throughout his career. so how about, instead of spewing hate in words more or less refined, we just take this page out of the book and do something nice and helpful for others in our own field.

[Remy]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Discuss.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Needless.

[carrie721]

Needless.

thank you for posting.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Katherine Jackson isn't able to take care of three young children. She's much too old to be providing for them until they're old enough to be on their own. She's in her late 70's. I don't know if you have kids Luke but they are a lot of responsibility and its a tough job being a full-time parent. I have grandchildren. I am only 52. NO way could I handle my three grandchildren full-time until they are 18 years old. That is why there isn't a lot of 52 or 79 year old MOMS out there in the world. haha It's a huge responsibility and a 24 hour job for many years!!! Katherine may be a wonderful grandmother but a mother to three children is a lot of responsibility and at her age, I don't think she can truely handle the everyday routine of taking care of three children. Yes, she could get nannies and so forth but I believe those kids should get to know their real mother too. I also don't believe that Joe Jackson is "out of Katherine's" life completely either. Maybe, I'd feel differently if Katherine had divorced Joe many, many years ago. If they had been estranged for 10 years why didn't she divorce him? Whatever happens, I wish the best for those kids. Michael Jackson was their father and I think he was a good father to them, the best that he could be. He should have kept Debbie Rowe Jackson in their lives so her children would have known her. He was married to her for three years. Whose to say the two oldest children never saw her or knew she is their mother? I'm really surprised that none of the Jackson siblings, Rebbie, Jackie, Tito, Jermaine, La-Toya, Marlon, Janet or Randy were named as godparents or guardians to those kids. At least I haven't heard about any of his siblings being that close to him other than Jermaine and Janet. Maybe, those kids should go live with Mark Lester or Barry Gibb who were also close friends to Michael before his death. Mark is a godfather to one of Michael's children and Michael was godfather to one of Barry's sons. It's up to the court to figure out who should raise those kids and who is physically able to be a full-time parent to three young children. Katherine may be a wonderful grandmother but her age will weigh a lot in a decision in court whether she's the best person to raise three young children. Each case if different.

It's not as if she will be caring for them alone. They will have nannies I'm sure. No way should they go to Debbie Rowe imo

[strandinthewind]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Needless.

I agree in that the Chandler suit horse has been beaten to death above. Note - I do not think anyone here or in the media has not acknowledged that MJ has serious issues in his personal life - hell, the man was a junkie :shrug: I think people are just fondly remembering the MJ of their youth when he seemingly was less complicated and brought such joy to so many people.

[RoseGarden]

Hmm.. don't know how convinced I am. Seems like she's just after money... again?

It sure seems that way to me. What kind of woman sells her kids for $8.5 million?
It's not like she decided to be a surrogate---she married Michael at one time.

[GODDESS6]

It sure seems that way to me. What kind of woman sells her kids for $8.5 million?
It's not like she decided to be a surrogate---she married Michael at one time.

but didn't they said debbie rowe not only gave up her parental rights not only once but twice?~ & i was reading where she said she wouldn't let them call her mom~ that she had the children for michael, because she thought he'd be a great dad~

i am thinking there is so much more to debbie & michael's story & the fact that he made a point ot add to his will to provide nothing for her,,,,this so reminded me of the end of the movie "mommie dearest" when they read joan crawford's will & she leaves christopher & christina nothing~

[Musicman408]

Guys, I have a question about a song here- I heard it on the radio and I really liked it, but they didn't give the title!

It was a softer mid tempo song, and I seem to recall on the chorus him singing something like "and you say why, why..... bla bla bla- other words I don't know". Anyway, it was a really nice song, and I can't figure out the title of it- any help???

Thanks Bunches!

[TrueFaith77]

^^human nature

[TrueFaith77]

debbie rowe just wants ANOTHER pay off. She doesn't want the kids.

[gldstwmn]

Discuss.

Nice hit piece. :shrug:

[David]

^^human natureI used to love that song, written by a couple of session players who later formed a hugely popular band.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee197/clivebrook/th_HUMANNATURE01.jpg (http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee197/clivebrook/HUMANNATURE01.jpg) http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee197/clivebrook/th_HUMANNATURE02.jpg (http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee197/clivebrook/HUMANNATURE02.jpg) http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee197/clivebrook/th_HUMANNATURE03.jpg (http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee197/clivebrook/HUMANNATURE03.jpg) http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee197/clivebrook/th_HUMANNATURE04.jpg (http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee197/clivebrook/HUMANNATURE04.jpg) http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee197/clivebrook/th_HUMANNATURE05.jpg (http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee197/clivebrook/HUMANNATURE05.jpg)

[Musicman408]

Thank you for letting me know!

[Lee]

Katherine Jackson isn't able to take care of three young children. She's much too old to be providing for them until they're old enough to be on their own. She's in her late 70's. I don't know if you have kids Luke but they are a lot of responsibility and its a tough job being a full-time parent. I have grandchildren. I am only 52. NO way could I handle my three grandchildren full-time until they are 18 years old. That is why there isn't a lot of 52 or 79 year old MOMS out there in the world. haha It's a huge responsibility and a 24 hour job for many years!!! Katherine may be a wonderful grandmother but a mother to three children is a lot of responsibility and at her age, I don't think she can truely handle the everyday routine of taking care of three children. Yes, she could get nannies and so forth but I believe those kids should get to know their real mother too. I also don't believe that Joe Jackson is "out of Katherine's" life completely either. Maybe, I'd feel differently if Katherine had divorced Joe many, many years ago. If they had been estranged for 10 years why didn't she divorce him? Whatever happens, I wish the best for those kids. Michael Jackson was their father and I think he was a good father to them, the best that he could be. He should have kept Debbie Rowe Jackson in their lives so her children would have known her. He was married to her for three years. Whose to say the two oldest children never saw her or knew she is their mother? I'm really surprised that none of the Jackson siblings, Rebbie, Jackie, Tito, Jermaine, La-Toya, Marlon, Janet or Randy were named as godparents or guardians to those kids. At least I haven't heard about any of his siblings being that close to him other than Jermaine and Janet. Maybe, those kids should go live with Mark Lester or Barry Gibb who were also close friends to Michael before his death. Mark is a godfather to one of Michael's children and Michael was godfather to one of Barry's sons. It's up to the court to figure out who should raise those kids and who is physically able to be a full-time parent to three young children. Katherine may be a wonderful grandmother but her age will weigh a lot in a decision in court whether she's the best person to raise three young children. Each case if different.

I actually think that Debbie Rowe SHOULD NOT get the kids. Just because someone is the biological parent does not mean that they can be a parent. She has stated numerous times that she's more interested in raising horses than raising children. And if she suddenly interested in the children, it's because she's interested in the money that will be coming with them.

JMO, but I think one should always honor the wishes of the deceased as stated in the will. Katherine Jackson was named in the will as the guardian & it should be honored. And Diana Ross was named as a back-up. And I think Michael's other siblings will also keep an eye on his children. :nod:

Lee :)

[becca]

Stevie Wonder enjoys a different kind of celebrity. He didnt have to wall himself off, because there was no risk of fans trampling him, which was the case anywhere Michael went.
As for your last sentence, it's definately noble to think about the needy, and even more noble to help them, which MJ did his whole life. no other singer gave away even near the amount he did throughout his career. so how about, instead of spewing hate in words more or less refined, we just take this page out of the book and do something nice and helpful for others in our own field.


You're right, I went off on a hate jag more about me than about MJ. He became extremely hard to relate to the black guy in the photos on The Jacksons Destiny LP I found I still have (1978). My CD copy of Off The Wall doesn't show anything but white socked feet. You really have to admit an adult man having sleepovers with kids not related to him is a big red flag 99.9 times out of 100 though right? If some 40 year old on my street were to do that there'd be a lot of questions, but I can accept extremely few 40 year old men would've had the background he did.

[Stew_Matthews]

I used to love that song, written by a couple of session players who later formed a hugely popular band.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee197/clivebrook/th_HUMANNATURE01.jpg (http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee197/clivebrook/HUMANNATURE01.jpg) http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee197/clivebrook/th_HUMANNATURE02.jpg (http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee197/clivebrook/HUMANNATURE02.jpg) http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee197/clivebrook/th_HUMANNATURE03.jpg (http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee197/clivebrook/HUMANNATURE03.jpg) http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee197/clivebrook/th_HUMANNATURE04.jpg (http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee197/clivebrook/HUMANNATURE04.jpg) http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee197/clivebrook/th_HUMANNATURE05.jpg (http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee197/clivebrook/HUMANNATURE05.jpg)





Not sure I ever liked it much but I remember reading that Steve Porcaro made more money out of this track than he ever did in his whole career with Toto. What must Rod Temperton have made?!

[Musicman408]

Not sure I ever liked it much but I remember reading that Steve Porcaro made more money out of this track than he ever did in his whole career with Toto. What must Rod Temperton have made?!

I don't know about that one. Toto was dope as hell!!!:D

[Remy]

thank you for posting.

sorry :) i felt too overwhelmed with the article to even respond. aside from the jordan chandler topic discussion, even for those who haven't done extensive reading on the matter - doesnt this article seem suspicious even in the style of writing? If someone truly was defending a just cause, wouldnt they want to bring their facts forward in a most objective way to gather everyone's attention and possibly convince them - instead of induging in your own dislike of the person by means of nasty, hateful language AND, as a result, antagonizing numerous readers from the start?

[strandinthewind]

sorry :) i felt too overwhelmed with the article to even respond. aside from the jordan chandler topic discussion, even for those who haven't done extensive reading on the matter - doesnt this article seem suspicious even in the style of writing? If someone truly was defending a just cause, wouldnt they want to bring their facts forward in a most objective way to gather everyone's attention and possibly convince them - instead of induging in your own dislike of the person by means of nasty, hateful language AND, as a result, antagonizing numerous readers from the start?

You would - but, this knd of hype sells more magazines.

[David]

You would - but, this knd of hype sells more magazines.SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS!!!

[strandinthewind]

SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS!!!

she writes for The Post, which is a rag amongst rags - what can you expect from a hog but a grunt :shrug:

[David]

she writes for The Post, which is a rag amongst rags - what can you expect from a hog but a grunt :shrug:What is The Post?

[strandinthewind]

What is The Post?

www.nypost.com

She is, I believe, the TV critic.

[JWS]

www.nypost.com

She is, I believe, the TV critic.

OK. I was thinking the Washington Post which is hardly a "rag" paper.

[David]

www.nypost.com

She is, I believe, the TV critic.Who is "she"? Am I not paying attention to the thread?

What is a "TV critic"?

Did you ever see PADDLE TO THE SEA?

[strandinthewind]

. . . Did you ever see PADDLE TO THE SEA?

Only in my Fred Flintstone car with Dino barking.

[BTFLCHLD]

seeing his last rehearsal, with ORIANTHI on lead guitar, I would have seen that show in a heartbeat. :(

<object width="345" height="264"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nvWMLAWrEjU&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x3a3a3a&color2=0x999999&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nvWMLAWrEjU&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x3a3a3a&color2=0x999999&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="345" height="264"></embed></object>

[CelticGypsy]

I actually think that Debbie Rowe SHOULD NOT get the kids. Just because someone is the biological parent does not mean that they can be a parent. She has stated numerous times that she's more interested in raising horses than raising children. And if she suddenly interested in the children, it's because she's interested in the money that will be coming with them.

JMO, but I think one should always honor the wishes of the deceased as stated in the will. Katherine Jackson was named in the will as the guardian & it should be honored. And Diana Ross was named as a back-up. And I think Michael's other siblings will also keep an eye on his children. :nod:

Lee :)


Well, let's hope they don't let La-Toya get anywhere near those kids. She has her own set of problems:p

[gldstwmn]

www.nypost.com

She is, I believe, the TV critic.

I love how she assumes guilt because she saw pictures of them on a roller coaster together. As for the rest, she has no direct proof.

[gldstwmn]

OK. I was thinking the Washington Post which is hardly a "rag" paper.

No the Washington "rag" paper would be the Washington Times.

[vivfox]

Well, let's hope they don't let La-Toya get anywhere near those kids. She has her own set of problems:p
LaToya never existed. It was Mikey's alter ego.

[vivfox]

July 4, 2009, 1:02 PM EST
Entertainment Tonight

Madonna will pay special tribute to Michael Jackson when she resumes her Sticky & Sweet tour in London tomorrow night.

Madonna's rep tells the Associated Press that she'll perform a special song and dance number in memory of Michael during the concert.

In exclusive photos of a dress rehearsal for the show (posted on Madonna's Web site), a man dressed like the late King of Pop is pictured busting dance moves while the Material Mom and an entourage watch on, looking impressed.

The concert takes place at London's O2 arena, where Michael was slated to stage his 50-date tour.
http://music.msn.com/music/article.aspx?news=418968&GT1=28102

[BombaySapphire3]

July 4, 2009, 1:02 PM EST
Entertainment Tonight



In exclusive photos of a dress rehearsal for the show (posted on Madonna's Web site), a man dressed like the late King of Pop is pictured busting dance moves while the Material Mom and an entourage watch on, looking impressed.


http://music.msn.com/music/article.aspx?news=418968&GT1=28102

I think I'd prefer to see Madonna busting dance moves while a man dressed like the late King of Pop and his entourage watch on,looking horrified.

[strandinthewind]

I think I'd prefer to see Madonna busting dance moves while a man dressed like the late King of Pop and his entourage watch on,looking horrified.

I agree.

She certainly is not afraid of cross dressing :shrug:

[Remy]

I think I'd prefer to see Madonna busting dance moves while a man dressed like the late King of Pop and his entourage watch on,looking horrified.

That would be precious.:)

[Dreamz19]

You are welcome. And, good thing you weren't on the 2005 jury, which aquitted MJ based largely on a lack of actual evidence and the prior history of extortion by the child's family. But, unlike the 1994 child's parents, the 2005 child's parents did not offer to let MJ move in with them, give their child heavy drugs to get the testimony, and then let the man who they said molested their son walk away free to do it again in exchange for setting them up financially for life.

Thank you for bringing this up. People keep bringing up the settlement as proof he was guilty, but you can also ask....why would the parents take it? If my child was molested, I would want the bastard who did it in jail. There is no way in hell I would take his money and go away. Here's an interview he did on "Primetime" where he talks about the settlement.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0L33VBSPsUE&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0L33VBSPsUE&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>



So these kids were essentially bred like shih tzu puppies, and have no idea who their parents are. The one (marginal) parental figure they did have is dead, and now they're going to be handed over to Joe & Katherine Jackson (hey let's give them 3 more kids, since they did so well raising their own :rolleyes: )? Who, at closing in on 80 years old, will probably both be dead in 5 years and yet more custody battles will ensue.

I agree considering his mother is pretty up in age. I don't think that was a smart move. Perhaps he should have had another person (along with his mother) in line. However I read from a couple of places that Diana Ross was next in line. I don't know how true that is considering that there has been false articles going around.

BTW MJ didn't leave the children to Joe. He left them with his mother. On Nancy Grace she was complaining about the kids going to Joe, but one of the lawyers told her that Joe and Katherine do not live together and haven't for years. He lives in Vegas and she lives in California.


It would be a shame if they did end up with the elder Jacksons, or even worse, get split up. The Jackson parents do seem to be awfully indifferent to what just happened- Joe is out pimping his new record label on TV while Katherine was spotted casually shopping at Target a couple of nights ago. First of all, what happened to the grieving; losing a child is the worst thing that could happen to a parent. Secondly, why is an 80-year-old scion of a musical dynasty pushing around a cart at Target? Doesn't she have a few hundred kids, grandkids and staff to do this for her? :

The father was a total piece of ****. I was appalled at what he did, but not surprised. As for the mother, it was said that she was getting things for the children. She wasn't just shopping for no reason. Perhaps she likes to do her own shopping and on a bargain? :shrug:

[LukeA]

seeing his last rehearsal, with ORIANTHI on lead guitar, I would have seen that show in a heartbeat. :(

You know what? Me too. Seriously.

There are a few tracks on HIStory that have always stood out to me- and this is one of them. For a clip of this song to be the one that was released with tantalizing, to say the least.

That said, I strongly prefer the other video for the song-

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9mmjypW_hNw&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9mmjypW_hNw&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I remember watching when this video debuted.

[Zombie]

Oh y'all. I was looking at that video of MJ's last rehearsal, and it led me to this video:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NfVHPY8JpkY&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NfVHPY8JpkY&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I feel SO bad for those kids! :distress:

[CelticGypsy]

Oh y'all. I was looking at that video of MJ's last rehearsal, and it led me to this video:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NfVHPY8JpkY&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NfVHPY8JpkY&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I feel SO bad for those kids! :distress:


Hopefully, very good things will come their way. Would be very nice if a DVD of the rehearsals with and without Michael are released. They're very talented bunch of kids and deserve to be seen on some kind of tribute show for Michael.

[BTFLCHLD]

That said, I strongly prefer the other video for the song
yea but the audio sux.

shamone. :D

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[vivfox]

Where To Watch The Michael Jackson Memorial On TV - Satellite TV Guru
By Christine
Though the line-up for the memorial has not been confirmed, Stevie Nicks and Mariah Carey are both rumored to be performing. Topics: General | No Comments ». Related Articles. TV Networks Plan Specials on Michael Jackson and Farrah ...
Satellite TV Guru - http://satellitetvguru.net/

[DavidMn]

how F***ED up is thw traffic in downtown L.A going to be later this morning and afternoon?:laugh::eek: What a nightmare....

[LukeA]

how F***ED up is thw traffic in downtown L.A going to be later this morning and afternoon?:laugh::eek: What a nightmare....

Through a connection, I could have a ticket for the Nokia Theatre thing. But, while I might have gone if I lived in the LA area, I wouldn't have flown down from Portland for that.

I feel bad for the people who flew from great distances, drove to Dodgers Stadium to pick up their tickets, only to find out they'd be in the Nokia Theatre, watching the same TV broadcast as everyone else is.

[Tango]

Where To Watch The Michael Jackson Memorial On TV - Satellite TV Guru
By Christine
Though the line-up for the memorial has not been confirmed, Stevie Nicks and Mariah Carey are both rumored to be performing. Topics: General | No Comments ». Related Articles. TV Networks Plan Specials on Michael Jackson and Farrah ...
Satellite TV Guru - http://satellitetvguru.net/


I suspect this satelliteguru got it's "Stevies" wrong--not the first time mixing this up, either. Stevie WONDER. ;)

[David]

I feel bad for the people who flew from great distances, drove to Dodgers Stadium to pick up their tickets, only to find out they'd be in the Nokia Theatre, watching the same TV broadcast as everyone else is.I felt bad for those people looong before Michael Jackson died.

[David]

I suspect this satelliteguru got it's "Stevies" wrong--not the first time mixing this up, either. Stevie WONDER. ;)Reminds me of the two guys in the crowd at the Aug. 31, 1980, Hollywood Bowl show, who can be heard on the audio tape:

Guy #1: We want Stevie!
Guy #2: Wonder!

[JWS]

how F***ED up is thw traffic in downtown L.A going to be later this morning and afternoon?:laugh::eek: What a nightmare....

They closed down the Ventura freeway East going to Burbank...right at the peak commute 8:00 am. The whole SFV was choked. Why...because the Jacksons were an hout late leaving their Encino compound.

Next closed was Interstate - 5 going into the city. A major truck route. Fortunately, I don't have to go that way today.

[David]

They closed down the Ventura freeway East going to Burbank...right at the peak commute 8:00 am. The whole SFV was choked. Why...because the Jacksons were an hout late leaving their Encino compound.

Next closed was Interstate - 5 going into the city. A major truck route. Fortunately, I don't have to go that way today.I think it's wonderful that a state with higher-than-twelve-percent unemployment should shut down freeways during morning commute in order to accommodate the Jackson family -- thus ensuring that that those California residents who are still lucky enough to be employed will be late to work (& possibly docked pay or even fired).

On a virtually daily basis, what I see around me amazes me that the populace aren't tarring & feathering their elected (& unelected) officials.

[strandinthewind]

^^

arguably, this spec., no matter how awful to some, has brought likely tens of millions in rev to the city, created 100's of jobs, and boosted the income of housands of businesses :shrug: moreover, like in any situation plan ahead and leave early.