A random question about two Say You Will tracks

[KenshiMaster16]

Okay, so I've been a Mac fan since the late '90s and I bought Say You Will only after I saw them perform the tracks live in '04. So I've been reading up online that there are Center Channel Mixes, whatever those are, and special single mixes of Say You Will & Peacekeeper. Can anybody enlighten me on what exactly these are and what makes them different, or actually post them to download for me since I can't seem to find them anywhere else?? :confused:

[David]

Okay, so I've been a Mac fan since the late '90s and I bought Say You Will only after I saw them perform the tracks live in '04. So I've been reading up online that there are Center Channel Mixes, whatever those are, and special single mixes of Say You Will & Peacekeeper. Can anybody enlighten me on what exactly these are and what makes them different, or actually post them to download for me since I can't seem to find them anywhere else?? :confused:The center channel mixes aren't really officially generated mixes -- they're home "mixes" manipulated by eliminating certain speaker signals in the 5.1 edition of the album.

I don't know anything about single mixes for "Say You Will." But traditionally single mixes aren't very different from album mixes -- a little more guitar here or backup vocal there. Typically, these are mixes intended to maximize the sonic effects of hearing the single play on the radio in your car, which, in the olden days, was of lower quality than your sound system at home.

[Andy Man]

I do know that there was a slight lyric change with the Peacekeeper single version. I can't remember what it was exactly, but I know the line "take no prisoners, only kill" was changed to a more accessible line (i guess it was a little too dark for radio). Does anyone remember what it was changed to??

[michelej1]

Does anyone remember what it was changed to??

Break their will. That, to me, is not exactly non-violent and less controversial. You usually break someone's will through torture.

Michele

[LukeA]

I don't know anything about single mixes for "Say You Will."

There was a considerably different single/radio mix for "Say You Will". I lost it when my computer died earlier this month. Anyone else have it and would be nice enough to share?

[sjpdg]

Break their will. That, to me, is not exactly non-violent and less controversial. You usually break someone's will through torture.

Michele

Which is exactly what Lindsey was refering too I think when he made the change and when he originally wrote the song. I think he was referring to the Bush administration and war in Iraq and knowing what soldiers and others would have to do in a war that he was trying to get at.

War isn't pretty (as I'd like to think we all know by now) and I think Lindsey was trying to reflect that and also how we as humans are the only species who specifically create things in order to destroy. What other species does that? "Only creatures who are on their way/ever poison their own wells" talks about us creating things meant to destroy.

I personally feel this song is supposed to shake us up and is meant to be (at least somewhat) controversial. Good for Lindsey!!!

There was a kind of theme in some of Lindsey's material for SYW. What's The World Coming Too, Murrow Turning Over In His Grave, Peacekeeper, all sounded like protest type songs to me. Each one has connections to different ideas and themes about politics, celebrity, war, peace, torture, law enforcement. The songs are fantastic and really get you to think beyond the standard pop music that is meant only to melt your brain into mush.

Way to go Lindsey!! Keep it up!!

[UndoingTheLaces]

The center channel mixes aren't really officially generated mixes -- they're home "mixes" manipulated by eliminating certain speaker signals in the 5.1 edition of the album.


Basically, they highlight certain aspects of a mix. You might just hear the background vocals and the guitar or maybe a main vocal without background, or stuff like that. I recall on Miranda Stevie's vocals pop out very prominently in parts. They're not like listening to good remixes but are a very interesting curiosity.

[UndoingTheLaces]

There was a considerably different single/radio mix for "Say You Will". I lost it when my computer died earlier this month. Anyone else have it and would be nice enough to share?

This is very good. I have this but will need to search through all my mp3's to find it and as it's after 3 am now I need sleep. But I had to mention that I like this version much better. I remember hearing it and thinking how cool it was that they added a new guitar part to the beginning but then realized it's actually a little bit of the solo at the instrumental bridge, just taken out of context. I think it gives the beginning a lot more energy.

And in the original version, am I the only one who thinks the guitar sound in the solo sounds just like the guitar in Book Of Miracles?

[LukeA]

There was a kind of theme in some of Lindsey's material for SYW. What's The World Coming Too, Murrow Turning Over In His Grave, Peacekeeper, all sounded like protest type songs to me. Each one has connections to different ideas and themes about politics, celebrity, war, peace, torture, law enforcement. The songs are fantastic and really get you to think beyond the standard pop music that is meant only to melt your brain into mush.


Peacekeeper was first written/recorded in early 2001 and had nothing to do with 9/11 or the war on terror/in Iraq. The record label chose it as the first single because the war in Iraq had just started at the time. The original solo version (what was to be the lead single on Summer '01's "Gift of Screws") is awesome

WTWCT is about Lindsey's dealings with WBR over his solo album. Its not a coincidence that this is the first track on SYW.

Murrow doesn't get nearly as much love on these boards as it should. It is to This Is The Time as Led Zeppelin/Kashmir is to Warrant/Cherry Pie.

[GrahnNicks]

This is a bit off topic, but is "Say Goodbye" about Stevie?

[DigYourGrave]

This is a bit off topic, but is "Say Goodbye" about Stevie?

"was written not long after I took leave of the band in the late eighties, to get my own head together, and it just needed to wait, to find its time.
Its about coming to terms with the fact that there can be little gain without some loss and little redemption without forgiveness."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OC7Gcg_9os

[tothegypsy]

Is it true that What's The World Coming To is almost a cover, with a little bit of Lindsey thrown in? I thought I remembered reading that awhile back.

[ontheEdgeof17]

Speaking of covers, someone was stealing from somebody. Does the hook sound familiar?

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[GavinBrown]

omg thats hilarious....such a syw ripoff!!!!:laugh:

[David]

Speaking of covers, someone was stealing from somebody. Does the hook sound familiar?Wow! The verse in this is exactly the same chord progression & timing as the verse in "Say You Will":

Subdominant (4 beats) --> Dominant (2 beats) --> Root (2 beats) -->
Subdominant (4 beats) --> Dominant (2 beats) --> Root (2 beats) etc.

At least Fleetwood Mac wrote a new chorus. Whew.

[gldstwmn]

Speaking of covers, someone was stealing from somebody. Does the hook sound familiar?

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I LOVE RICHARD ASHCROFT!!!!! :blob1: That is all.

[gldstwmn]

Wow! The verse in this is exactly the same chord progression & timing as the verse in "Say You Will":

Subdominant (4 beats) --> Dominant (2 beats) --> Root (2 beats) -->
Subdominant (4 beats) --> Dominant (2 beats) --> Root (2 beats) etc.

At least Fleetwood Mac wrote a new chorus. Whew.

Actually I think Curt was comparing this to Illume.
Oops. On edit I'm thinking of New York, which we've discussed at greath length here. Anyhoo, someone in the band was either channeling Rich or he them. :shrug:

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[michelej1]

Which is exactly what Lindsey was refering too I think when he made the change and when he originally wrote the song.

Lindsey's motives aside, I just thought it ironic that the censors would find "only kill" too harsh, but they thought "break their will" was perfectly safe for a sensitive audience.

Of course, that's what tv writers will always tell you -- that they are forced to throw some jokes out as being too racy, but then when they replace them, the substitute dialogue is often even dirtier, but the censors never seem to notice.

Michele

[michelej1]

This is a bit off topic, but is "Say Goodbye" about Stevie?

Lindsey said repeatedly that it was for and about Stevie and the increasingly personal dedications he made to her before the song, as the SYW tour neared its end, were quite touching. I am sorry that I missed their last show in Michigan, if for no other reason than that I wanted to hear the last Say Goodbye introduction.

Although, while I liked many of the dedications, I found the live performance of Say Goodbye itself quite stultifying.

Michele

[MacMan]

Okay, so I've been a Mac fan since the late '90s and I bought Say You Will only after I saw them perform the tracks live in '04. So I've been reading up online that there are Center Channel Mixes, whatever those are, and special single mixes of Say You Will & Peacekeeper. Can anybody enlighten me on what exactly these are and what makes them different, or actually post them to download for me since I can't seem to find them anywhere else?? :confused:

Two single remix versions of "Say You Will"
Say You Will (Single Remix Fade) 3:49 (beginning is different, guitar added & is a little more upfront then the album version through out the song. The guitar bridge half way through the song is completely different then the album version, & the ending fades out)
Say You Will (Single Remix Cold) 3:37 (same as above except a cold ending)

On the Promo Only cd for "Running Through The Garden" this appears
Say You Will (Single Remix Fade) 3:49
Say You Will (Album Version) 3:47

On the Promo Only single of "PeaceKeeper" these two appear
Peacekeeper (Single Mix) 4:11 ("Break their will ending")
Peacekeeper (Single Mix Edit) 3:42 (fades out before the "break their will ending)

On the commercial single for PeaceKeeper
Peacekeeper (Single Mix) 4:11 (ending changed to "Break Their Will")

One another Promo Only single for Peacekeeper
Peacekeeper (tin tin out remix)

[gldstwmn]

There was a considerably different single/radio mix for "Say You Will". I lost it when my computer died earlier this month. Anyone else have it and would be nice enough to share?

Mixed by Chris Lord Alge, the Cold Remix of Say You Will is far superior to the album track, IMO. While the album track plods along and is pleasant, Lord Alge's mix brings out Lindsey's guitar and gives the song a more fun and bouncy feel. Out of the two mixes, this one is definitely the more radio friendly.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/q1rsfj

[gldstwmn]

Lindsey's motives aside, I just thought it ironic that the censors would find "only kill" too harsh, but they thought "break their will" was perfectly safe for a sensitive audience.

Michele

Yes. Torture was okay during the Bush administration (break their will) but killing was too harsh. :rolleyes:

[gldstwmn]

I think Lindsey was trying to reflect that and also how we as humans are the only species who specifically create things in order to destroy. What other species does that? "Only creatures who are on their way/ever poison their own wells" talks about us creating things meant to destroy.

That's a great interpretation.


There was a kind of theme in some of Lindsey's material for SYW. What's The World Coming Too, Murrow Turning Over In His Grave, Peacekeeper, all sounded like protest type songs to me. Each one has connections to different ideas and themes about politics, celebrity, war, peace, torture, law enforcement. The songs are fantastic and really get you to think beyond the standard pop music that is meant only to melt your brain into mush.


It makes me wonder what else would have made it on to the aborted double album in order to complete his statement. I wonder if the other three were uncomfortable with this theme. If you are correct in your assumptions, these songs would be the most powerful social statements from Lindsey and quite possibly FM ever.

[gldstwmn]

The original solo version (what was to be the lead single on Summer '01's "Gift of Screws") is awesome.


Yes it is. I listened to it the other day and I prefer it to the SYW version. It goes along at a nice clip, having more energy. What was it about SYW that made these two songs (SYW and Peacekeeper) seem to drag along?

[gldstwmn]

Is it true that What's The World Coming To is almost a cover, with a little bit of Lindsey thrown in? I thought I remembered reading that awhile back.

WTWCT reminds me very much of a late sixties Beach Boys melody.

[gldstwmn]

Lindsey said repeatedly that it was for and about Stevie and the increasingly personal dedications he made to her before the song, as the SYW tour neared its end, were quite touching. I am sorry that I missed their last show in Michigan, if for no other reason than that I wanted to hear the last Say Goodbye introduction.
Michele

And I was there and can't recall it now. Can you refresh my memory Michelle?

[KenshiMaster16]

Holy crap! That SYW mix is incredible. Makes the album version sound like a crappy demo. :blob2: :thumbsup:

[michelej1]

And I was there and can't recall it now. Can you refresh my memory Michelle?

I didn't see the last one, I think I read about it on Nicksfix, but as the tour wound down, his dedications started to get more emotional in general. One show he would do his dad, then his brother, then he thanked Cory and said she was a proud testament to her dad and he was basically crying. So, that's why I wanted to see all the final shows, because gradually they got more emotional every night.

When I saw them in New Jersey, which was the pentultimate show, Lindsey turned to her and said it had been too many years -- or maybe it hadn't been enough. Lindsey recalled that the night before at the Borgata he said some things he didn't think Stevie liked, so he suggested that maybe he shouldn't say it again. He said, "You didn't like it?" She demurred and basically gestured and mumbled that it was his song and he could introduce it any way he wanted.

She stretched out her arms and Lindsey was laughing, pausing and gazing at her. He said, "I wrote this song for Stevie [lots of applause]. Everyone in the band had separated, but we were still working together and it was difficult to get closure. I wrote this song after I left the band in 1987, when I was finally able to find that closure. It's called Say Goodbye." Lots of applause. I think the tentative, intimate intro got people more interested than they otherwise would have been. Lindsey tried to add extra words into the lyrics as he sung them here and there. At the end, he sang the ending in a broken, almost choked whisper and remained at his mic looking at Stevie longer than usual as the song closed.

Staged? Yeah, but it was a little extra than what we'd gotten for most of the tour and they were genuinely teary, real moisture (although Stevie's back was towards me most of the time during the song) and I think, love it or hate it, you do feel things as an 18 month tour comes to its conclusion. So, I was a little choked at the 2nd to last show and I imagine that the actual last show -- held where I grew up (saw many concerts at Pine Knob) would have been even better. Darn FM for making it on a Tuesday when I couldn't go. I hate them:(.

Michele

[gldstwmn]

Staged? Yeah, but it was a little extra than what we'd gotten for most of the tour and they were genuinely teary, real moisture (although Stevie's back was towards me most of the time during the song) and I think, love it or hate it, you do feel things as an 18 month tour comes to its conclusion. So, I was a little choked at the 2nd to last show and I imagine that the actual last show -- held where I grew up (saw many concerts at Pine Knob) would have been even better. Darn FM for making it on a Tuesday when I couldn't go. I hate them:(.

Michele

What I remeber most about Linds (and I was sitting on his side, very close) was that at the end of the show he just took off his guitar and handed it to someone and walked off the stage with a plaintive look on his face. That was opposed to Mick and Stevie who stayed out on the stage a little longer smiling and waving to everyone as if they didn't want it to end.
When I got back to my hotel (The Ritz Carlton, Dearborn) lo and behold there was Fleetwood Mac. There was some sort of computer glitch at LAX and they had planned on flying home after the show but couldn't. They were stuck for the night. So someone had bought their airplane food over for them (motzarella and tomatoes, tacos). I think at some point someone offered me a taco. :laugh: We (Strand and I) chatted with Neale, Brett and Taku at various times. Lori Nicks was there and Stevie was at the bar doing shots of tequila. Mick was floating around. Carlos passed with a quick hello. Sharon looked soooo thin, almost too thin. The Ryder Cup was going on at the same time and this horrendously drunk golf guy came over and exclaimed "Christine!" which is so close to my real name that it freaked me out for a second. I don't know if he was so hammered that he thought I was C. McVie. :laugh: Jamie Foxx was there with Sway from MTV. He was in town shooting Ray. It was one kooky after party. :laugh: I didn't see Lindsey or John though.

[ontheEdgeof17]

omg thats hilarious....such a syw ripoff!!!!:laugh:

The other way around. This was written and released prior to SYW.

[LukeA]

Mixed by Chris Lord Alge, the Cold Remix of Say You Will is far superior to the album track, IMO. While the album track plods along and is pleasant, Lord Alge's mix brings out Lindsey's guitar and gives the song a more fun and bouncy feel. Out of the two mixes, this one is definitely the more radio friendly.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=7702db0c3d590468bda4076e811714c8e04e75f6e8ebb871

There's nothing at the link.. could you please upload the file again? thank you! :)

[vivfox]

I love the center channel mix for Everybody Finds Out. My favorite parts are the guitar part in the very beginning and when Lindsey sings," you can't love him, you can't have him, I do have him all of the time."

[TrueFaith77]

The single version of Say You Will is commercially available on iTunes for purchase.

http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?id=1650292&s=143441

And it is awesome!!!!!!!!!! and totally freakin different than the album version.

[LukeA]

The single version of Say You Will is commercially available on iTunes for purchase.

http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?id=1650292&s=143441

And it is awesome!!!!!!!!!! and totally freakin different than the album version.

Didn't realize- if I knew, I wouldn't have asked. Thank you!

[TrueFaith77]

RE: Peacekeeper. I thought I read someplace that it was the first "single" ever released on iTunes. :shrug:

Either way, it's not available now as a single. I wonder if they had released it as a different version as well. Would be interesting to know...

[Musicman408]

Wow, that single version has some real kick to it!!!

Music really is a plagaristic artform (in response to those sound alike songs). There are only so many combos of chords and progressions that one can chose. :nod:

[gldstwmn]

The single version of Say You Will is commercially available on iTunes for purchase.

http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?id=1650292&s=143441

And it is awesome!!!!!!!!!! and totally freakin different than the album version.

I don't think this is the same version as the Cold Remix.

[gldstwmn]

There's nothing at the link.. could you please upload the file again? thank you! :)

http://www.sendspace.com/file/q1rsfj

[sjpdg]

Peacekeeper was first written/recorded in early 2001 and had nothing to do with 9/11 or the war on terror/in Iraq. The record label chose it as the first single because the war in Iraq had just started at the time. The original solo version (what was to be the lead single on Summer '01's "Gift of Screws") is awesome

WTWCT is about Lindsey's dealings with WBR over his solo album. Its not a coincidence that this is the first track on SYW.

Murrow doesn't get nearly as much love on these boards as it should. It is to This Is The Time as Led Zeppelin/Kashmir is to Warrant/Cherry Pie.

I stand corrected in regards to Peacekeeper. I did not know that. Thanks for the info.

I would agree that "Murrow" does not get a lot of attention. I love it personally and think it's a great song.

[KenshiMaster16]

The Say You Will on iTunes IS the same mix, it just fades out instead of ending abruptly. I went ahead and bought it anyway, gotta support the Mac. Hate that downloads went up in price though. Oh well.

[Ulpian]

On a SYW-related note, can anyone please clear something up for me: does Christine sing/play on 'Murrow'? My understanding was that she didn't, but I keep reading (on the internet, of course) that Stevie refused to sing on it, and so Lindsey asked Chris.

Thanks :)

[LukeA]

On a SYW-related note, can anyone please clear something up for me: does Christine sing/play on 'Murrow'? My understanding was that she didn't, but I keep reading (on the internet, of course) that Stevie refused to sing on it, and so Lindsey asked Chris.

Thanks :)

What does it say on the album credits? I wouldn't be surprised if neither were on it.

[michelej1]

On a SYW-related note, can anyone please clear something up for me: does Christine sing/play on 'Murrow'? My understanding was that she didn't, but I keep reading (on the internet, of course) that Stevie refused to sing on it, and so Lindsey asked Chris.

Thanks :)

I don't think Stevie refused to sing on anything except Come. But if Christine had been on Murrow, it would be about 6 years before Stevie was even asked to sing on it. Christine's only playing and singing on the songs was before the band began working on Say You Will.

Michele

[KenshiMaster16]

Outta curiousity, anybody got the Center Channel stuff handy? Also, I thought I read somewhere that Chris played on the Say You Will track, anyone know if that's true or not?

[michelej1]

Outta curiousity, anybody got the Center Channel stuff handy? Also, I thought I read somewhere that Chris played on the Say You Will track, anyone know if that's true or not?

Not true. Michele

[MacAttack88]

which tracks did feature Christine on the album?

[CADreaming]

which tracks did feature Christine on the album?

I thought she was only on "Bleed to Love Her" which was a throwback to "The Dance"...

[Erin]

Christine's also on Steal Your Heart Away.

[Ulpian]

Yeah, I thought she sang and played on BTLH and played (but not sang) on SYHA. I seem to remember there being a press pack which said so, but certainly there's nothing specific in the album sleeve. It's just that the Murrow thing keeps popping up on various (probably unreliable) sites.

[Mac_Villain]

I'm pretty sure I heard her in Murrow Turning Over in His Grave in the harmonies

[Erin]

I can clearly hear Christine singing on SYHA and BTLH. I don't think she's on any other track.

[Ulpian]

I can clearly hear Christine singing on SYHA and BTLH. I don't think she's on any other track.

I think I hear her on SYHA (and we know she's singing on BTLH), but I remember there being something about her only providing keyboards for one track. I don't know which, though.

In addition, at the time of recording SYW, Stevie mentioned that Lindsey was playing some of his tracks to her and she said "ooh is that Chris?" (singing in the background) and he said no, it was him manipulating his voice on some of the 'oohs and ahs'.

[michelej1]

Yeah, Johnny Stew posted a list from someone (John Run) that detailed exactly what Chris was doing on SYW.

It's here: http://www.ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpost.php?p=756121&postcount=11

It would be nice if the SYW liner notes told us. But it would also be nice if the current tour had a program, so I would know who is doing what up there on stage. I must try not to demand too much from this band.

Michele

[michelej1]

Thinking about that list, if Chris isn't playing keyboards on SYW, the odds are she is probably playing on some of Lindsey's other solo songs and maybe even singing too. I'd like to know which ones. Even if it's just on a demo, I'd like to know it's her.

Michele