Tacky-lame TITN and Redrocks videos

[AnthonyMI]

Ok, so I dug out my old VHS of Tango In the Night and the DVD of Red Rocks I only ever watched once each. They are so incredibly tacky! Why on earth did people EVER think those Stevie Nicks closeups of her lip syncing were good? Uhg. Its so depressing. Both those shows would have been so much better if they had just filmed the shows and edited them like the way the HBO concert and the Mirage concert were presented. Stevie's Hair does not even match from cut to cut! Her eyes look dead on the closeups, but you can see in the live footage she is actually moving and breathing! The clothes and hair are one thing, but the editing HORRENDOUS.

Which gets me to asking. Does anyone know if there is raw footage of these concerts out there ? Maybe someday we will get a reedited DVD issue of TITN with a "Tacky" original version and then the "Original".

[chriskisn]

Ok, so I dug out my old VHS of Tango In the Night and the DVD of Red Rocks I only ever watched once each. They are so incredibly tacky! Why on earth did people EVER think those Stevie Nicks closeups of her lip syncing were good? Uhg. Its so depressing. Both those shows would have been so much better if they had just filmed the shows and edited them like the way the HBO concert and the Mirage concert were presented. Stevie's Hair does not even match from cut to cut! Her eyes look dead on the closeups, but you can see in the live footage she is actually moving and breathing! The clothes and hair are one thing, but the editing HORRENDOUS.

Which gets me to asking. Does anyone know if there is raw footage of these concerts out there ? Maybe someday we will get a reedited DVD issue of TITN with a "Tacky" original version and then the "Original".

One of the things that annoys me about Red Rocks is that the hair doesn't match on the close-ups. I understand that they did those close-ups afterwards, and even that she lip synched, but surely common sense said that she should have had the same hairstyle.

Worst thing was that her hairstyle for the concert was so much sexier than that used for the close-ups...

I can't even watch Red Rocks for this very reason...

[bellagypsy79]

When Marty Callner was directing them, the closeups of Stevie on both shows were edited to make it look like a music video. Those close ups were shot on a totally different day than the concerts. In the mid 1980's a lot of rock stars were doing that when they made music videos and stuff. It was considered cool, I guess. But like I said those closeups were shot on a completely different day. You have two images...the concert, and her. That's the way it was ment to be filmed.

[chriskisn]

When Marty Callner was directing them, the closeups of Stevie on both shows were edited to make it look like a music video. Those close ups were shot on a totally different day than the concerts. In the mid 1980's a lot of rock stars were doing that when they made music videos and stuff. It was considered cool, I guess. But like I said those closeups were shot on a completely different day. You have two images...the concert, and her. That's the way it was ment to be filmed.

Doesn't make it less annoying though... ;)

[john214x]

been askin about raw footage for awhile now..heard there is definitely the original vocals of Red Rocks but havn't seen anyone put it up..video would be cool though.

[AnthonyMI]

been askin about raw footage for awhile now..heard there is definitely the original vocals of Red Rocks but havn't seen anyone put it up..video would be cool though.

So does that mean the vocals we hear on Red Rocks was different than the "live" footage and also different than the closeups? That is retarded!

At least on the Dance they had the sense to prerecord the vocals and hide any lip sync issues with quick edits and hiding lips behind mics

[strandinthewind]

^
The Dance is a live vocal.

The editing of all the videos starting with Mirage was sloppy.

[HejiraNYC]

So does that mean the vocals we hear on Red Rocks was different than the "live" footage and also different than the closeups? That is retarded!


I believe there are some poor-quality audio boots of the "actual" Red Rocks show floating around; the vocals have definitely been re-recorded. So if you think about it, the video was mostly a studio/soundstage production with a few distant shots of Red Rocks thrown in. And it was a mash-up of pre-/post- rehab as well as pre-/post-Jose Eber Stevie. :eek: It's all so wrong, but it's strangely compelling. And didn't it actually win a Grammy for best long-form music video that year?

[AnthonyMI]

^
The Dance is a live vocal.

The editing of all the videos starting with Mirage was sloppy.

Back in the early days of the Ledge it was decided that the Dance was actually not totally live. Stevie once in an interview let it slip up that they were recording for 6 weeks or something before the Dance. Some of that might have been plain old rehearsal. But If you watch a lot of the video the lips don't match the vocals sometimes. There used to be a list of times but I know several instances where Stevie is supposed to be singing, cuz you can hear her, but her lips are nowhere near a microphone. True, they might have taken shots from one night and vocals from another. But the fact that all the vocals are spot on for the entire show make it seems TOO perfect, especially when you compare the vocals on all the live bootlegs from that tour. The vocals had to of been recorded in a controlled way over a longer period of time. Also, notice how the microphone always conveniently covers entire lips or cuts away at consonants or at the end of lines. You never actually, or seldom, see lines of vocals end.



In fact, I think this is actually what Stevie did during all that time in Nashville after/or before Soundstage. Nothing is live anymore! Not even at Redrocks or TITN

[Josh2003]

Back in the early days of the Ledge it was decided that the Dance was actually not totally live. Stevie once in an interview let it slip up that they were recording for 6 weeks or something before the Dance. Some of that might have been plain old rehearsal. But If you watch a lot of the video the lips don't match the vocals sometimes. There used to be a list of times but I know several instances where Stevie is supposed to be singing, cuz you can hear her, but her lips are nowhere near a microphone. True, they might have taken shots from one night and vocals from another. But the fact that all the vocals are spot on for the entire show make it seems TOO perfect, especially when you compare the vocals on all the live bootlegs from that tour. The vocals had to of been recorded in a controlled way over a longer period of time. Also, notice how the microphone always conveniently covers entire lips or cuts away at consonants or at the end of lines. You never actually, or seldom, see lines of vocals end.



In fact, I think this is actually what Stevie did during all that time in Nashville after/or before Soundstage. Nothing is live anymore! Not even at Redrocks or TITN

I'm pretty sure that the vocals were recorded live, but "sweetened" in a studio after the fact.

As for the video/audio discrepencies, I'd chalk it up to editing...probably issues with filming over two nights.

[carrie721]

When Marty Callner was directing them, the closeups of Stevie on both shows were edited to make it look like a music video. Those close ups were shot on a totally different day than the concerts. In the mid 1980's a lot of rock stars were doing that when they made music videos and stuff. It was considered cool, I guess. But like I said those closeups were shot on a completely different day. You have two images...the concert, and her. That's the way it was ment to be filmed.

no, i don't think that's the way it was meant to be filmed. i think the closeups were added after the fact because the raw footage was such a mess, much like the lady herself.

the whole thing should have just been scrapped.

[nailatixela]

I can still bare to watch redrocks for the good parts - that are more real than the close ups. Like the edge wail. The dove moment. The ending of Stand Back is great too. And I love BATB from that show.

But the TITN show is just so bad. I don't even own the DVD - but what I have seen on youtube is real bad editing. Half of the time the camera is on a fan, or backstage, or on a Stevie post-show close up! I can't get through one TITN song from that DVD.

[gldstwmn]

heard there is definitely the original vocals of Red Rocks but havn't seen anyone put it up.

The sound quality is horrible making the show virtually unlistenable. However, if memory serves there is a take of No Spoken Word that was recorded after the show had ended. At least I think it's from the RR show.

[David]

But the TITN show is just so bad. I don't even own the DVD - but what I have seen on youtube is real bad editing. Half of the time the camera is on a fan, or backstage, or on a Stevie post-show close up! I can't get through one TITN song from that DVD.It's horrible, every aspect of it. Extremely poor judgment from all involved, especially the director and/or cinematographer, who film just about every shot in stop-motion frame-by-frame or sometimes slow-motion. There's no artistically justifiable reason for making every shot an effects shot; it's utterly distracting. The cuts are so rapid, one after another, that any semblance of concert experience or arena space is destroyed. When you're watching the video, you're prevented from caring at all about Fleetwood Mac. The videomakers' judgment was abysmally poor. They ought to be ashamed.

I see Mick Fleetwood's stamp of approval all over this. He must have assumed he'd rake it in from a stupid concert video? What an odd notion.

It's a damn shame that no Fleetwood Mac tour has ever been served by a seriously filmic treatment, on par with U2's "Rattle & Hum" or Peter Gabriel's concert film from several years back, or even something grand like Demme's "Stop Making Sense." Even the Heartbreakers got a serious (& seriously enjoyable) film out of Bogdanovich's film last year.

[gldstwmn]

I see Mick Fleetwood's stamp of approval all over this. He must have assumed he'd rake it in from a stupid concert video? What an odd notion.

Well, he admittedly was drunk and high at that time so...

[jedw]

I Haven;t got either of these in my collection, do enjoy the mirage video though.

While on the subject; what is on this tape exactly ..

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=320358740200&Category=1508&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D2

anybody know which youtube clips might corespond to the concert on this tape?

[David]

While on the subject; what is on this tape exactly ..

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=320358740200&Category=1508&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D2

anybody know which youtube clips might corespond to the concert on this tape?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmQ_1sXZJxI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyWq25O2RbI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCc7MRfdB-8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZgpJY0Xnf0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHjidmNYqVc&feature=related

All filmed December 12 & 13, 1981, at Fox Wilshire Theatre in Beverly Hills

[jedw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmQ_1sXZJxI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyWq25O2RbI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCc7MRfdB-8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZgpJY0Xnf0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHjidmNYqVc&feature=related

All filmed December 12 & 13, 1981, at Fox Wilshire Theatre in Beverly Hills

Thanks very much for answering my question so well :)

[lacesundone]

I know many-a-Stevie fan that hates Red Rocks.
But I worship it! It is a time capusle performance of 1986.
I love the extended Stand Back Intro, I love the stage, I love the Bass Player swaying back and forth during Dreams, I love the dresses the girls are wearing. I even love how awful the editing and close ups are. I put Red Rocks DVD on as background when I'm getting ready for a night on the town. It's classic.

[petep9000]

I hated the slow-mo stuff, and how it all looked so gauzy or foggy. When I caught their NY leg in 1987, I could see that Stevie was dramatically different. But, this video makes it looks 900 times worse. She looks so dull and dazed.
Anyone remember the VH1 special they did to promote this concert video? It had a lot of weird Mick sequences, including him coming out of a box like he was Nosferatu. And Stevie's hair was frizzed out yet flat and she wasn't wearing much make-up, and Billy looked like he had a horrible cold.
Oh, and this is where we get to see Stevie smoking on stage while doing rehearsal.

[Johnny Stew]

I know many-a-Stevie fan that hates Red Rocks.
But I worship it! It is a time capusle performance of 1986.

I'm a Red Rocks fan too. I recognize its flaws, but I still love it. I was about 16 when it was released, and -- like most 16 year olds at that time -- I was totally obsessed with MTV. Red Rocks is basically an extended version of the concert videos that MTV used to play at the time. They really weren't meant to capture the concert experience, per se, but to venerate the artists. All the little 16 year olds idolized these bands, and the videos fed that with the reverential close-ups and slow-mo shots.

However, the one thing about Red Rocks that always grated on my nerves then, and still does today -- the looped audience noise. They must've sampled a 35-40 second recording of the audience cheering, and then tracked it all the way through the show. Listen for a long whistle, followed by a short whistle... and then pay attention to how it just keeps repeating over and over and over again. It can be a bit like Chinese water torture once you pick up on it.

[EnchantedKiwi]

Well, he admittedly was drunk and high at that time so...

What did Mick actually do in the video?
Ive got it and it says that he makes a guest appearance, the only thing I can see is that he's their just standing around, tapping some bongo drum here and there :laugh:

[watchdevil17]

Seems like I remember this weird editing trick in the RR video... I think it was during a guitar part of NSW where Waddy is in the foreground, in motion, but Stevie is in the background, FROZEN!!! within the same set of frames.... as a kid, I felt this only helped to provide proof to all the witch rumours!

[David]

What did Mick actually do in the video?
Ive got it and it says that he makes a guest appearance, the only thing I can see is that he's their just standing around, tapping some bongo drum here and there :laugh:He used to appear onstage at the Rock a Little shows & play either congas or bongo drums next to Bobbye Hall. Stevie always made a big playful deal out of introducing him during the band introductions.

[wheart]

I know many-a-Stevie fan that hates Red Rocks.
But I worship it! It is a time capusle performance of 1986.
I love the extended Stand Back Intro, I love the stage, I love the Bass Player swaying back and forth during Dreams, I love the dresses the girls are wearing. I even love how awful the editing and close ups are. I put Red Rocks DVD on as background when I'm getting ready for a night on the town. It's classic.

Well I"m glad I"m not the only who feels this way!! I love the entire thing; the good, the bad and the ugly!! For all its flaws, I believe it captures this period of Stevie's career perfectly. How can anyone watch that edge walk and not feel something incredibly special? It is classic and I, too, have put this on while getting ready for a night out!

[BellaDonna93]

Ok, so I dug out my old VHS of Tango In the Night and the DVD of Red Rocks I only ever watched once each. They are so incredibly tacky! Why on earth did people EVER think those Stevie Nicks closeups of her lip syncing were good? Uhg. Its so depressing. Both those shows would have been so much better if they had just filmed the shows and edited them like the way the HBO concert and the Mirage concert were presented. Stevie's Hair does not even match from cut to cut! Her eyes look dead on the closeups, but you can see in the live footage she is actually moving and breathing! The clothes and hair are one thing, but the editing HORRENDOUS.

Which gets me to asking. Does anyone know if there is raw footage of these concerts out there ? Maybe someday we will get a reedited DVD issue of TITN with a "Tacky" original version and then the "Original".

I think it's very sad that they refilmed it, with the close-ups...Stevie doesn't looks like that when she did the concert! When you see the parts when she isn't close o the camera, she doesn't looks like she does when she's filmed close up! It makes me feel sad...Her hair isn't the same...Her face doesn't looks the same...
Well, for example, when she does the Edge Walk, you can totally see that they have done something to the film...I don't like that they did that...but however, I LOVE the dvd!!! I use to watch it in hours! The songs are still the same, and her voice is still the same ;) I absolutley love Stand Back, Edge Of 17, BATB, HAEWAFY, the dove part is the best in the film!!! I have the conversation between Stevie and the dove down here as you can see...:thumbsup:

Love the dvd, but would prefer the original cuts :) :angel:

[lacesundone]

Well I"m glad I"m not the only who feels this way!! I love the entire thing; the good, the bad and the ugly!! For all its flaws, I believe it captures this period of Stevie's career perfectly. How can anyone watch that edge walk and not feel something incredibly special? It is classic and I, too, have put this on while getting ready for a night out!

YAY!! I'm not alone!

[lacesundone]

I'm a Red Rocks fan too. I recognize its flaws, but I still love it. I was about 16 when it was released, and -- like most 16 year olds at that time -- I was totally obsessed with MTV. Red Rocks is basically an extended version of the concert videos that MTV used to play at the time. They really weren't meant to capture the concert experience, per se, but to venerate the artists. All the little 16 year olds idolized these bands, and the videos fed that with the reverential close-ups and slow-mo shots.

However, the one thing about Red Rocks that always grated on my nerves then, and still does today -- the looped audience noise. They must've sampled a 35-40 second recording of the audience cheering, and then tracked it all the way through the show. Listen for a long whistle, followed by a short whistle... and then pay attention to how it just keeps repeating over and over and over again. It can be a bit like Chinese water torture once you pick up on it.

I can't believe I've never noticed the audience loop before! That is Brilliant!

[gldstwmn]

What did Mick actually do in the video?
Ive got it and it says that he makes a guest appearance, the only thing I can see is that he's their just standing around, tapping some bongo drum here and there :laugh:

Yeah. Not much. He did help out with the dove incident. :shrug:

[Matthew]

I have to say my opinion. I´m big fan of this period you´re talking about. It´s simply 80s. I like the fashion, hairstyle, the videos and also the two concert videos. One of the most favourite, Stevie had amazing voice in Tango video, I really love it, especially Gold Dust Woman and Stand Back. The music is great. And at Red Rocks... she is so crazy there, maybe the close-ups aren´t so great, but i really enjoy the sound, i just listen to the audio of this concert and i love it. Maybe my most favourite version of Edge of Seventeen, definitely best live performance of Talk To Me.

etc. etc. I just love this time :D. You know that.

[David]

One of the most favourite, Stevie had amazing voice in Tango video, I really love it, especially Gold Dust Woman and Stand Back. The music is great. It is indeed a big world out there. :o

In other news, Prague is one of the cities I have always wanted to visit most. I bet it's beautiful!

[jedw]

"Dreams" performed on the tango tour must rank amongst the more bizarre arrangements, electronic T-sk T-sk drums and Stevie seems to sing through some sort of Doubletrack/Chorus deal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt30jLk5NCo
It's trippy I say.

Red rocks is a horrible mess of editing, and studio fiddeling, but I still love parts, like the stand back intro; as mentioned by sombody else here I think.

[UndoingTheLaces]

But the TITN show is just so bad. I don't even own the DVD - but what I have seen on youtube is real bad editing. Half of the time the camera is on a fan, or backstage, or on a Stevie post-show close up! I can't get through one TITN song from that DVD.

I always thought it was odd that Stevie's closeups were all redone but nobody elses.

[StandbackStevie]

Ok, so I dug out my old VHS of Tango In the Night and the DVD of Red Rocks I only ever watched once each. They are so incredibly tacky! Why on earth did people EVER think those Stevie Nicks closeups of her lip syncing were good? Uhg. Its so depressing. Both those shows would have been so much better if they had just filmed the shows and edited them like the way the HBO concert and the Mirage concert were presented. Stevie's Hair does not even match from cut to cut! Her eyes look dead on the closeups, but you can see in the live footage she is actually moving and breathing! The clothes and hair are one thing, but the editing HORRENDOUS.

Which gets me to asking. Does anyone know if there is raw footage of these concerts out there ? Maybe someday we will get a reedited DVD issue of TITN with a "Tacky" original version and then the "Original".

well stevie on the red rocks concert yes the close ups where different hair is right after they filmed that concert the next day she entered into betty ford for cocaine and when she got out she did the closeups after she got out of betty ford so thats why they were different she probably didnt like the way she looked that night so they did that. i do like the red rocks concert and tango in the night concert too even though they might not be the best concerts of them on dvd rock a little tour was my first time seeing stevie in concert and tango in the night tour was my fleetwood mac first time seeing them on tour as well those concerts where awesome when i saw them live her in connecticut stevie actually toured twice thru connecticut she first played hartford civic center sold out show i believe May 2, 1986 and July 29, 1986 at the new haven coliseum.