For the Britts...

[LiamMcConville]

How do you feel about Socialism (government sponsored health care, blah blah blah...)? :shrug:

[mylittledemon]

How do you feel about Socialism (government sponsored health care, blah blah blah...)? :shrug:

Sitting with my friend Gil here after dinner I asked her the same question to which she smiled and said "Are you being cheeky?" I said "No, I'm being a twat." She laughed and said "Well I love the idea of it about as much as I like the idea of pirates stealing everything I own." To which I said "No, what I mean is, what would the British people say to that question? Any Brit you stopped in the street; what would be their answer to that question?"

Gil then said "Well if you dont want to go have a pint with the guy, or get told to toss off, they'd probably say--we love the principles of socialism about as much as Americans do. That's why a lot of us emigrate to America you know."

[trackaghost]

Except the great majority don't actually emigrate to America.
As a Brit who still actually lives in England, I personally don't agree with Brandon's friend.

[mylittledemon]

Except the great majority don't actually emigrate to America.
As a Brit who still actually lives in England, I personally don't agree with Brandon's friend.

Well she didnt say the majority leave for America.

She lives here in New Zealand btw, not in America. But she loves the States.

[LiamMcConville]

Except the great majority don't actually emigrate to America.
As a Brit who still actually lives in England, I personally don't agree with Brandon's friend.

Well tell me about your Socialist experiences!

[gold_dust]

How do you feel about Socialism (government sponsored health care, blah blah blah...)? :shrug:

Well, as a Briton, without the NHS - National Health Service - we'd be lost. We have private health care, and many people choose to take that option, but, in my opinion, health isn't something you put a price on. You're ill - you see a doctor. You don't choose to get sick, even if you're risking it with things like smoking, or drinking - so why should you have to pay to get better? Everything here (except medicine, and even then certain people can be excempt from paying) is free. Doctors appointments are free, consultations are free, operations are free. We don't really see it as something socialist when you're all putting money into something that's helping everyone. I had an ear operation when I was five, there's no way I could've contributed towards the NHS at that age, but without them, I doubt I'd be able to listen to much now. And without the NHS - which started just after the war - my great grandmother couldn't get the treatment to save her hearing. As a consequence my great uncle (and all my cousins) are now deaf.

And, there's hardly a person I know that has emigrated to America, told someone to 'toss off' (complete wrong choice of wording to use in the UK), and I don't think people think too much about it, if they're asked. We all need healthcare when we're ill, so why see it as a negative thing when we're all putting money into it? I don't think I've ever connotated Socialism with the NHS before. Without it, we don't get treated, and if we want to go private, it'd have to be through a good job. I'm private until I turn 24. Then, if I need treatment for something, I either go to the NHS, or get a good job. And since I have Generalized Anxiety Disorder, with Social Anxiety and Depression, getting a job right now isn't really an option. But, at least, I'll still get treatment.

[rubytuesday]

Well, as a Briton, without the NHS - National Health Service - we'd be lost. We have private health care, and many people choose to take that option, but, in my opinion, health isn't something you put a price on. You're ill - you see a doctor. You don't choose to get sick, even if you're risking it with things like smoking, or drinking - so why should you have to pay to get better? Everything here (except medicine, and even then certain people can be excempt from paying) is free. Doctors appointments are free, consultations are free, operations are free. We don't really see it as something socialist when you're all putting money into something that's helping everyone. I had an ear operation when I was five, there's no way I could've contributed towards the NHS at that age, but without them, I doubt I'd be able to listen to much now. And without the NHS - which started just after the war - my great grandmother couldn't get the treatment to save her hearing. As a consequence my great uncle (and all my cousins) are now deaf.

And, there's hardly a person I know that has emigrated to America, told someone to 'toss off' (complete wrong choice of wording to use in the UK), and I don't think people think too much about it, if they're asked. We all need healthcare when we're ill, so why see it as a negative thing when we're all putting money into it? I don't think I've ever connotated Socialism with the NHS before. Without it, we don't get treated, and if we want to go private, it'd have to be through a good job. I'm private until I turn 24. Then, if I need treatment for something, I either go to the NHS, or get a good job. And since I have Generalized Anxiety Disorder, with Social Anxiety and Depression, getting a job right now isn't really an option. But, at least, I'll still get treatment.

Couldn't and wouldn't live without it. I live in Australia at the moment and it's the same here and its truly astounding at how Americans think its so peculiar and communist. My family was always fortunate enough to have complete private cover but I couldn't live like that knowing that lots of society had no cover. Have you seen Sicko? NHS is......well Tony Benn put it best "An educated, healthy and confident nation is harder to govern". I think that would frighten America and as he also said even the most conservative Tory wouldn't take NHS away or as he said, there'd be a revolution across the UK. We just wouldn't tolerate the government taking away our right to health.

[gold_dust]

Couldn't and wouldn't live without it. I live in Australia at the moment and it's the same here and its truly astounding at how Americans think its so peculiar and communist. My family was always fortunate enough to have complete private cover but I couldn't live like that knowing that lots of society had no cover. Have you seen Sicko? NHS is......well Tony Benn put it best "An educated, healthy and confident nation is harder to govern". I think that would frighten America and as he also said even the most conservative Tory wouldn't take NHS away or as he said, there'd be a revolution across the UK. We just wouldn't tolerate the government taking away our right to health.

I haven't seen Sicko, but know family/friends that have and have told me about it. I remember during the final bout of Obama/McCain debates, Obama said when his mother was dying, lawyers were fighting over her bed as to who was gonna pay for it (not sure how far fetched this is). My uncle died two years ago, and whilst the pain he went through is completely unimaginable to me, I thank God that paying for it was the least of his worries. He got all the help he could receive and it was of no cost to him. He didn't choose to get sick.

No one in any developed (or third world, for that matter) country should have to have a price on their health. This is something I can't comprehend. Many a time my family have considered moving to the US and then we always think that there's no free healthcare - there's no way we'd move. I don't get how having free healthcare means you're a communist. I may pay towards something that helps others, but then, someone else will pay towards something that may help me.

[sara1998]

Here's a question, though. How long does it take to get in to see your doctors or specialists? I mean, if I wake up in the morning with a fever and sore throat, I can call the doctor and be on my way to an appointment within a couple of hours. My daughter was recently diagnosed with Von Willebrands disease, and she was into the Hemotologist within a couple of days, and had a diagnosis within a week. It was my understanding that with national health care, it's pretty hard to get in to see a doc or specialist. And I don't know how true this is, but from my understanding the Canadians are only allowed one operation a year! What happens, say, if you had a car accident and needed an operation right then, and then, six months later, you need heart surgery? I mean, they're **** out of luck! I'm all for nationalized health care, only if things stay the way they are with my private insurance.

[rubytuesday]

Here's a question, though. How long does it take to get in to see your doctors or specialists? I mean, if I wake up in the morning with a fever and sore throat, I can call the doctor and be on my way to an appointment within a couple of hours. My daughter was recently diagnosed with Von Willebrands disease, and she was into the Hemotologist within a couple of days, and had a diagnosis within a week. It was my understanding that with national health care, it's pretty hard to get in to see a doc or specialist. And I don't know how true this is, but from my understanding the Canadians are only allowed one operation a year! What happens, say, if you had a car accident and needed an operation right then, and then, six months later, you need heart surgery? I mean, they're **** out of luck! I'm all for nationalized health care, only if things stay the way they are with my private insurance.

Sorry I meant to direct that quote to the original poster but I liked your post so I quoted it.

I don't have private insurance here in Australia but if I'm coming down with something I can call the doctor and be seen that day, sometimes straight away, sometimes they'll squeeze you in before they close if they're a bit busy. I don't know anything about one operation, never heard of that concept before.

You just have to trust the rest of the world that if its like our systems then it works and is far superior. You have to experience it I guess cause it seems to sound scary to Americans. But since you can't then you've just got to take our word. That's if they do it properly. I think the fact that its very hard to find someone in the other countries who wouldn't swear by NHS or whatever theirs is called speaks for itself. If the government attempted to tear apart NHS the houses of parliament would be on fire the whole of Britain would be in the streets marching.

That's the first thing I want my taxes to go to, public health. Everyone deserves to be seen even if they just suspect they have something, whether they're wealthy or whether they're on the dole.

[gold_dust]

Here's a question, though. How long does it take to get in to see your doctors or specialists? I mean, if I wake up in the morning with a fever and sore throat, I can call the doctor and be on my way to an appointment within a couple of hours. My daughter was recently diagnosed with Von Willebrands disease, and she was into the Hemotologist within a couple of days, and had a diagnosis within a week. It was my understanding that with national health care, it's pretty hard to get in to see a doc or specialist. And I don't know how true this is, but from my understanding the Canadians are only allowed one operation a year! What happens, say, if you had a car accident and needed an operation right then, and then, six months later, you need heart surgery? I mean, they're **** out of luck! I'm all for nationalized health care, only if things stay the way they are with my private insurance.

Whilst you can wait a while to see a doctor (it's not always that way), we also have NHS walk-in centers, where you just turn. I wouldn't say it's hard to get an appointment, but you may have to wait awhile before you see the consultant/doctor. If you are referred to a hospital, it can be pretty quickly. I've never heard of the 'one operation a year' rule, and it doesn't apply to the NHS. I've had two cousins, both sisters, who've been treated for Breast Cancer through the NHS and have needed surgery, as well as reconstructive surgery, multiple times. There is no limit with the NHS.

[sara1998]

Whilst you can wait a while to see a doctor (it's not always that way), we also have NHS walk-in centers, where you just turn. I wouldn't say it's hard to get an appointment, but you may have to wait awhile before you see the consultant/doctor. If you are referred to a hospital, it can be pretty quickly. I've never heard of the 'one operation a year' rule, and it doesn't apply to the NHS. I've had two cousins, both sisters, who've been treated for Breast Cancer through the NHS and have needed surgery, as well as reconstructive surgery, multiple times. There is no limit with the NHS.

I'm glad it works for you guys. I really am. I just hope if it's implemented here, it doesn't turn out broken like our Social Security, or basically useless like our Medicaid.

[jannieC]

I'm glad it works for you guys. I really am. I just hope if it's implemented here, it doesn't turn out broken like our Social Security, or basically useless like our Medicaid.

What do you mean by that?

Btw, hi! :wavey:

[sara1998]

What do you mean by that?

Btw, hi! :wavey:

Well, I have a friend who refuses to get a job, so she's always relied on Medicaid. I've just seen through her experience that she's forced to go to ****ty doctors and hospitals, and then they hesitate to provide services when needed for her kids. It doesn't even cover her. I'm not stereotyping any doctor or services who accepts Medicaid, but from my observation, (and maybe it's the doctors she chooses) they're a joke. She has a few medical problems herself, but won't shell out the money to go see any doctor because she's not covered.

[jannieC]

Well, I have a friend who refuses to get a job, so she's always relied on Medicaid. I've just seen through her experience that she's forced to go to ****ty doctors and hospitals, and then they hesitate to provide services when needed for her kids. It doesn't even cover her. I'm not stereotyping any doctor or services who accepts Medicaid, but from my observation, (and maybe it's the doctors she chooses) they're a joke. She has a few medical problems herself, but won't shell out the money to go see any doctor because she's not covered.

The reason I ask is because I had Medicaid for part of my time in graduate school and it was the best medical care I have ever had. Also during that time, we had my step-son on Medicaid and again, everything was covered- it was awesome.

Now that I'm out of school and have "real" benefits, I am pining for that Medicaid coverage! The only trouble I had with Medicaid was dental- virtually zero dentists accept it. Now I'm lucky if my stupid insurance company will cover ANYTHING I need and even then, they won't cover all of anything. It's so awful and expensive.

I do agree that the requirements for getting Medicaid make the system somewhat flawed, though. It really does not motivate one to find employment when the potential to lose those benefits is there. While the true poor and non working should definitely be covered, it seems like there should be a middle ground for folks who are working, but still can't afford decent benefits.

I have seen clients come in to my agency and then can't come back because they can't afford their co-pays. Our system here in the US is totally f*(&d, seriously.

[tuigirl]

For all they say about how bad the NHS is ( and yes, there are some horror stories around) they have helped us out alot, so it's swings and roundabouts, but at this point in time we are grateful for their services, for sure

[LiamMcConville]

Thanks all for your interesting answers! :)

[trackaghost]

Well tell me about your Socialist experiences!

I never replied to this! But basically what the other Brits have been saying in this thread. The NHS is one of the Labour government's greatest achievements. I'm not saying it's perfect, it's far from that, but try taking the NHS away from the people now in favour of a system like in the US where the poorest are unprotected. There would be a huge outcry - it just wouldn't be allowed to happen, even the most conservative politicians know this. I'm a person who believes we all have a social responsibility and making sure everyone has access to health care is as important as making sure everyone has an education or is protected by the police etc. It's that simple.

[rubytuesday]

I never replied to this! But basically what the other Brits have been saying in this thread. The NHS is one of the Labour government's greatest achievements. I'm not saying it's perfect, it's far from that, but try taking the NHS away from the people now in favour of a system like in the US where the poorest are unprotected. There would be a huge outcry - it just wouldn't be allowed to happen, even the most conservative politicians know this. I'm a person who believes we all have a social responsibility and making sure everyone has access to health care is as important as making sure everyone has an education or is protected by the police etc. It's that simple.

For me it seems so obvious like the first basic right. Cause there's socialism in the America and all other democracies. We can all catch buses and go to libraries and schools and we can all call the fire department if our house is on fire. The last one is pretty important but to me the right to be healthy comes waaaay before the right to catch a bus or go to a library. It's weird to think that if in America for instance they decided that you could only go to school if you paid or that they were closing down libraries to the public and you had to pay a fee to enter, that there would be an outcry but that there aren't masses in the street protesting the fact that unless your employed in a position with cover or are wealthy enough to afford it, that you can't get medical attention for free or next to nothing. Like Tony Benn said there would be a revolution if they took away the NHS. Its the very first human right I think. The right to life which in most cases means the right to health care regardless or your means. You can be a begger on the street, someone in jail, unemployed or of reasonable means but when you think you need a check up cause your getting frequent chest pains (or something like that), everybody is equal. What I don't understand is why there isn't a revolution going on, where are the people in the streets demanding health care (in America I mean). I'd be constantly scared of getting even the flu.