Concert industry reports record year.

[wolfontherun]

Despite bad economy. Proof that the entertainment industry is indeed recession proof. So the upcoming FM tour may indeed be a profitable one despite the fact that most of us seem to agree that the excitement factor is just not there for us fans.

I think the general public though want to hear only the hits and FM to most are middle of the road rockers and the nostalgia factor will also be a big draw.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/12/22/entertainment/e141202S31.DTL&type=music

[LukeA]

Proof that the entertainment industry is indeed recession proof.

Hardly! There are such things as "expenses" that affect the net profits for the promoters (the ones who write the big checks that the artist demands). Your summarization of the article is wholly ignorant at best.

[gldstwmn]

Hardly! There are such things as "expenses" that affect the net profits for the promoters (the ones who write the big checks that the artist demands). Your summarization of the article is wholly ignorant at best.

And your response is typical of the industry insider "I'm better than you" snob. Get over yourself already. You should thank the lucky stars above you've seen and heard the things you have.

[HejiraNYC]

The shizzstorm on Wall Street didn't really start until well after the summer concert season, so the true bellwether for the health of the entertainment industry, i.e., this coming summer, has yet to be seen.

[LukeA]

And your response is typical of the industry insider "I'm better than you" snob. Get over yourself already. You should thank the lucky stars above you've seen and heard the things you have.

??? The gross of any industry/company is not always directly related to its overall success or health- that concept is not specific to the entertainment industry, nor is it a trade secret that artists have been demanding more and more $$$.

[LukeA]

The shizzstorm on Wall Street didn't really start until well after the summer concert season, so the true bellwether for the health of the entertainment industry, i.e., this coming summer, has yet to be seen.

Yes. While AC/DC and Britney Spears (honestly didn't see that one coming!) have been recession proof, Fleetwood Mac will very likely be the first high profile tour of the new year that fails. U2 is the big tour next year- it will be interesting to see how many stadiums in North America Live Nation forces the band into, and how those will do. I'm pretty sure Coldplay's Summer '09 NA stadium ambitions are kaput, too.

[DavidMn]

Yes. While AC/DC and Britney Spears (honestly didn't see that one coming!) have been recession proof, Fleetwood Mac will very likely be the first high profile tour of the new year that fails. U2 is the big tour next year- it will be interesting to see how many stadiums in North America Live Nation forces the band into, and how those will do. I'm pretty sure Coldplay's Summer '09 NA stadium ambitions are kaput, too.How would you define failure in Fleetwood Mac's case?

[StandbackStevie]

I have heard that too that people are making sure they have money aside for entertainment and I do feel Fleetwood Mac will do great on this tour The Eagles tickets are higher price and Britney Spears is a higher price than fleetwood mac and at mohegan sun britney added a second show for popular demand and her high price ticket is $250 regular price. So even though we might not be happy about the prices Fleetwood Mac is an average range over all compared to others so I am looking forward to the tour it will be awesome. I would like to see U2 also Heart is touring this year as well.

[Musicman408]

The shizzstorm on Wall Street didn't really start until well after the summer concert season, so the true bellwether for the health of the entertainment industry, i.e., this coming summer, has yet to be seen.

Hit the nail right on the head with that one. :nod:

[David]

I guess that whoever wants to rack up more debt on his credit card will pay for Fleetwood tickets.

What I should have learned, long before I did, is that "health" in an economy constitutes both good news & bad news, depending on the vantage point of the analysis. For example, if retail is doing well, personal (or household) debt is inevitably rising. If retail is doing poorly, personal (or household) saving or retirement saving is probably increasing (except for the unemployed, who are trying to make sure they have enough for next week's allotment of mac & cheese).

An economy like this? It's either The Mac ... or mac & cheese.

The better Fleetwood Mac does for its proposed tour, the worse all you fans are doing with saving emergency cash or contributing to your retirement funds.

But don't these entertainment/media conglomerates rely -- as much as any other industry does -- on banks & loans? The economists say that credit is flowing only slightly freer today than it was three months ago.

I have a question (which probably won't get an answer) for all you Mac fans d'un certain age -- say, 35 or older -- who plan to buy tickets to the show. Are you on track with your retirement (401k, IRA, etc.) account saving?

[DavidMn]

I guess that whoever wants to rack up more debt on his credit card will pay for Fleetwood tickets.

What I should have learned, long before I did, is that "health" in an economy constitutes both good news & bad news, depending on the vantage point of the analysis. For example, if retail is doing well, personal (or household) debt is inevitably rising. If retail is doing poorly, personal (or household) saving or retirement saving is probably increasing (except for the unemployed, who are trying to make sure they have enough for next week's allotment of mac & cheese).

An economy like this? It's either The Mac ... or mac & cheese.

The better Fleetwood Mac does for its proposed tour, the worse all you fans are doing with saving emergency cash or contributing to your retirement funds.

But don't these entertainment/media conglomerates rely -- as much as any other industry does -- on banks & loans? The economists say that credit is flowing only slightly freer today than it was three months ago.

I have a question (which probably won't get an answer) for all you Mac fans d'un certain age -- say, 35 or older -- who plan to buy tickets to the show. Are you on track with your retirement (401k, IRA, etc.) account saving?I'll answer that question as a 37(soon to be 38) year old. The answer would be no, but I want to go and I'm able, so I'm doing it, and that's that.

[mgikallaroundme]

I have a question (which probably won't get an answer) for all you Mac fans d'un certain age -- say, 35 or older -- who plan to buy tickets to the show. Are you on track with your retirement (401k, IRA, etc.) account saving?

Over 50. Right on track with my early retirement. If pulling every dime out of the U.S. economy is good enough for Dick Cheney (no U.S. owned bank accounts, no U.S. stocks or bonds --Haliburton now registered in Dubai, no U.S. real property) then it's good enough for me. I got out just in time. I know a lousy deal when I see it. Oops, this question wasn't for me. I'm not planning to buy Mac tickets this year.

[wolfontherun]

Hardly! There are such things as "expenses" that affect the net profits for the promoters (the ones who write the big checks that the artist demands). Your summarization of the article is wholly ignorant at best.


Merry X mass to you too pal!

[HejiraNYC]

I guess that whoever wants to rack up more debt on his credit card will pay for Fleetwood tickets.

What I should have learned, long before I did, is that "health" in an economy constitutes both good news & bad news, depending on the vantage point of the analysis. For example, if retail is doing well, personal (or household) debt is inevitably rising. If retail is doing poorly, personal (or household) saving or retirement saving is probably increasing (except for the unemployed, who are trying to make sure they have enough for next week's allotment of mac & cheese).

An economy like this? It's either The Mac ... or mac & cheese.

The better Fleetwood Mac does for its proposed tour, the worse all you fans are doing with saving emergency cash or contributing to your retirement funds.

But don't these entertainment/media conglomerates rely -- as much as any other industry does -- on banks & loans? The economists say that credit is flowing only slightly freer today than it was three months ago.

I have a question (which probably won't get an answer) for all you Mac fans d'un certain age -- say, 35 or older -- who plan to buy tickets to the show. Are you on track with your retirement (401k, IRA, etc.) account saving?

I think the good ol' days, like 2002 - 2007, when people could suck phantom equity out of their homes like an ATM, are gone forever. No more bankrolling ivy league college educations, boats, cars, vacations and yes, concert tickets with home equity. Banks are cutting back on consumer credit. The U.S. economy has just witnessed the instantaneous evaporation of 2 trillion dollars worth of wealth. People's stock and retirement portfolios have been decimated. Sure, most of us will likely hold onto our jobs during this economic calamity, but those of us who gambled with risky mortgages, as well as those of us who invested conservatively in diverse funds, have been lead to slaughter. Where once I thought I would retire within the next 15 years or so, I am now resigned to working until I finally keel over. Long gone are the days when I would not think twice about shelling out over $100 to see a concert or to fly out to Vegas to catch a Caesar's show just for the heck of it... and I have a feeling I am not alone in this sentiment.

As far as I am concerned, we are still in Wile E. Coyote territory- we have run ourselves right off of the cliff and we are hanging in mid-air while trying to probe for solid ground with our toes. The perilous fall into the abyss is inevitable, yet many people (including FM, apparently) must believe we are doing fine since we have not yet gone kersplatt in the valley below.

[DavidMn]

I'm going to come at this from a different point of view. I view the mess this country is in now as somewhat akin to what happened on 9/11. I mean back then you had terrorists that killed thousands of people. Now you have what I would call "financial terrorits" I.E Madoff, AIG, etc. I'm in no way saying things arent bad out there becuase its more than clear that they are. Everybody back then said we had to go on and live our lives and show the terrorists that we werent afraid of them and what they tried to do to us, and I think the same should apply now. The way I choose to deal with that is to continue to plan on going to the Fleetwood Mac shows I'm going to. :nod:

[jbrownsjr]

I guess that whoever wants to rack up more debt on his credit card will pay for Fleetwood tickets.

What I should have learned, long before I did, is that "health" in an economy constitutes both good news & bad news, depending on the vantage point of the analysis. For example, if retail is doing well, personal (or household) debt is inevitably rising. If retail is doing poorly, personal (or household) saving or retirement saving is probably increasing (except for the unemployed, who are trying to make sure they have enough for next week's allotment of mac & cheese).

An economy like this? It's either The Mac ... or mac & cheese.

The better Fleetwood Mac does for its proposed tour, the worse all you fans are doing with saving emergency cash or contributing to your retirement funds.

But don't these entertainment/media conglomerates rely -- as much as any other industry does -- on banks & loans? The economists say that credit is flowing only slightly freer today than it was three months ago.

I have a question (which probably won't get an answer) for all you Mac fans d'un certain age -- say, 35 or older -- who plan to buy tickets to the show. Are you on track with your retirement (401k, IRA, etc.) account saving?

Yes, although I've taken about a 50% loss on most of my assets... I'm trying not to look at it. The new company that I work for matches 50 cents for my every dollary up to 6%. I take full advantage and invest in index funds. Shares are cheap right now, so the dollar cost averaging will work to my advantage for buying in now while the values are so cheap. Oh... and no I won't waste my disposable income on FMac tickets... I don't like the product as it is right now... it bores me.. However if the voices were still solid and they didn't have that ridiculous back up band... I might consider it. But truly I'm glad the addiction for me has worn off because I can think of so many other places to invest 200-500 bucks for a couple good seats.

"This whole re-convening was an organic process of Stevie Mick John and I needing organic cash. Isn't that weird?!"

[estranged4life]

An economy like this? It's either The Mac ... or mac & cheese.

I have a question (which probably won't get an answer) for all you Mac fans d'un certain age -- say, 35 or older -- who plan to buy tickets to the show. Are you on track with your retirement (401k, IRA, etc.) account saving?


Sorry, If eating Mac & Cheese equates to seeing the 'Cheesy Mac' revue, then count me out. I could afford the $125 ticket back in July 2003 for OKC (Though I never paid more than $70 to see Cheesy Mac in Dallas 2003/2004) before the economy and 'personal life market' crashed, but at this time I don't see myself shelling out to see ANY concert...No longer a priority in my "entertainment in life" category (Cd's - yes/Concerts - no)


As for the savings issue, within the next few weeks I will have a decent 'small nest egg' (After the last of the accident coverages are paid to me due to Debbie's death - and I have paid all her bills minus the funeral, which will come off the top of the last check I am awaiting. And 'survivor guilt', to which I am feeling, makes one feel wiser in regards to finances they received due to a death in their family)

Minus a newer used vehicle I bought (To replace my 2002 Pontiac Grand Prix) the rest of THAT money will not be touched until I find a suitable home to purchase in the $40,000-$60,000 range, which is very affordable here in Oklahoma.

Thank God I got off the credit card 'merry-go-round' years before this market crunch occurred, I own ZERO credit cards and plan to have ZERO in the future :nod:

[David]

Let me emphasize that I wasn't taking a moralizing position. There was nothing hortatory in my brief essay. I was merely making a prediction: That this year's circumstances will prevent more people than usual from seeing the band play.

[DavidMn]

Let me emphasize that I wasn't taking a moralizing position. There was nothing hortatory in my brief essay. I was merely making a prediction: That this year's circumstances will prevent more people than usual from seeing the band play.Dave I had no problem with what you said. I simply wanted to answer your question honestly.:)

[michelej1]

I have a question (which probably won't get an answer) for all you Mac fans d'un certain age -- say, 35 or older -- who plan to buy tickets to the show. Are you on track with your retirement (401k, IRA, etc.) account saving?

Huh? Well, I was on track for my retirement, but I think I'll pull money out of my IRA to see the Mac. If I can somehow get the money back (maybe I will win the lottery) and replace it or roll it over within 60 days, I won't face a penalty. So . . . It's a risk, but I'm ready to take it for Dreams. Retirement will take care of itself.

Michele

[LukeA]

How would you define failure in Fleetwood Mac's case?

One or more of the dates announced thus far being considered for cancellation, and an internal re-evaluation of how just ambitious future '09 tour plans should be... or, in other words, what they're surely doing in the FM camp right now. I imagine that the rest of the dates of the tour (yet to be announced) will be scaled back. The eventual plan ('10-'11) is to package it as a farewell tour, so I wouldn't be surprised if the "Unleashed" (pre-album) touring period is shorter than previously planned.

Worst case scenario, of course, is FM tanking so bad they literally put promoters out of business (which happened TWICE on the SYW tour, with the canceled Memphis date, and the North Dakota play that BOMBED)

[gldstwmn]

Long gone are the days when I would not think twice about shelling out over $100 to see a concert or to fly out to Vegas to catch a Caesar's show just for the heck of it... and I have a feeling I am not alone in this sentiment.

You're not. I passed on fantastic Madonna tickets about a month and a half ago because I could not justify the price. I've never seen her live and five years ago I would not have batted an eye at the price. The times they are a changin'.

[StandbackStevie]

One or more of the dates announced thus far being considered for cancellation, and an internal re-evaluation of how just ambitious future '09 tour plans should be... or, in other words, what they're surely doing in the FM camp right now. I imagine that the rest of the dates of the tour (yet to be announced) will be scaled back. The eventual plan ('10-'11) is to package it as a farewell tour, so I wouldn't be surprised if the "Unleashed" (pre-album) touring period is shorter than previously planned.

Worst case scenario, of course, is FM tanking so bad they literally put promoters out of business (which happened TWICE on the SYW tour, with the canceled Memphis date, and the North Dakota play that BOMBED)

The Say You Will Tour Rocked and They Toured for almost 2 years on that tour I love the cd as well and went to about 4 shows on that tour and my seats were great at all the shows front row for a few shows it thought the say you will tour was awesome they were having a blast. So I do beg to differ that the Say You Will tour was a successful tour i wouldnt call pretty much most of the shows sold out and for almost 2 years touring on there last cd a bomb:blob2:

[LukeA]

The Say You Will Tour Rocked and They Toured for almost 2 years on that tour I love the cd as well and went to about 4 shows on that tour and my seats were great at all the shows front row for a few shows it thought the say you will tour was awesome they were having a blast. So I do beg to differ that the Say You Will tour was a successful tour i wouldnt call pretty much most of the shows sold out and for almost 2 years touring on there last cd a bomb:blob2:

About 80% of the first leg of '03 dates (all the major markets) were profitable for all, about 30% of the second leg/'03 (some repeats/lots of secondaries) were, and barely 15% (largely Clear Channel sheds and a few indies) of the '04 dates were.

And yes, I would call the the dates that put two separate promoting agencies in two separate parts of the country out of business (almost singlehandedly) "bombs".

[UnwindedDreams]

Can you please reveal the dates that are being considered for cancellation?

[LukeA]

Can you please reveal the dates that are being considered for cancellation?

It's only speculation at this point, but its very apparent that Rochester & Albany are selling very poorly. Rosemont isn't in danger of cancellation, but its far from doing gangbusters- especially since its a major Mac market, and also because they were pretty much counting on adding a second show.

[UnwindedDreams]

Isn't how a show sells only apparent either by reading a sales report or by looking at the inside of the venue on the day of the show?

[LukeA]

Isn't how a show sells only apparent either by reading a sales report or by looking at the inside of the venue on the day of the show?

If prime tickets are available (in various sections) this long after the on-sale, that's a pretty good indicator on its own. 70-75% of tickets for most shows are sold in the pre-sales/first 24 hours of the on-sale.

[UnwindedDreams]

The best I could get in Rochester was back floor. Are those prime seats?

[LukeA]

The best I could get in Rochester was back floor. Are those prime seats?

Did you try searching for lower level (not floor) tickets, or just Best Available? I ask because I pulled a pair in Sec 106 repeatedly for over a week after it went on sale by doing so.

[UnwindedDreams]

Do you think at least 10,000 will show up for each show?

[DavidMn]

One or more of the dates announced thus far being considered for cancellation, and an internal re-evaluation of how just ambitious future '09 tour plans should be... or, in other words, what they're surely doing in the FM camp right now. I imagine that the rest of the dates of the tour (yet to be announced) will be scaled back. The eventual plan ('10-'11) is to package it as a farewell tour, so I wouldn't be surprised if the "Unleashed" (pre-album) touring period is shorter than previously planned.

Worst case scenario, of course, is FM tanking so bad they literally put promoters out of business (which happened TWICE on the SYW tour, with the canceled Memphis date, and the North Dakota play that BOMBED)Luke, I was at that Grand Forks ND date on 8-19-03. I can tell u that there were only 8,000 people at that show. Also, I was at the Buffalo SYW show in 2003
on 5-15-03 and I had nosebleed seats and they moved me down to the lower level.

[LukeA]

Luke, I was at that Grand Forks ND date on 8-19-03. I can tell u that there were only 8,000 people at that show.

Yes, and at least 500-1000 were there with comps. The city of Grand Forks and a independent promoter partnered on the date, and lost a ton of money- mainly because they were stupid enough to 1) pay rack rate without any real negotiation, and 2) not pull the plug on the date before it took place to save on costs... although to be fair, they may have tried to negotiate a cancellation fee with the band to no avail.

It got a bit contentious between the promoter/city & FM. (here's a thread from the Ledge that discussed this as it was happening - http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/archive/index.php/t-11306.html)

[DavidMn]

Yes, and at least 500-1000 were there with comps. The city of Grand Forks and a independent promoter partnered on the date, and lost a ton of money- mainly because they were stupid enough to 1) pay rack rate without any real negotiation, and 2) not pull the plug on the date before it took place to save on costs... although to be fair, they may have tried to negotiate a cancellation fee with the band to no avail.

It got a bit contentious between the promoter/city & FM. (here's a thread from the Ledge that discussed this as it was happening - http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/archive/index.php/t-11306.html)I hadnt read that stuff before. Boy it did get a bit nasty didnt it? The main reason I went to that show is because it was only a 4 hour drive from Minneapolis up there and I could drive back without having to stay overnight. Also, I thought the placing of the date of that show was bizarre as they played Kansas City on 8-13, St Louis on 8-15, and Cincinnati on 8-16, hen went all the way to GF on 8-19. Seemed weird to me.

[mgikallaroundme]

"This whole re-convening was an organic process of Stevie Mick John and I needing organic cash. Isn't that weird?!"

It's all about the cycles and appreciating one's celebrity.

[gldstwmn]

I hadnt read that stuff before. Boy it did get a bit nasty didnt it?

We were calling someone on the carpet for a bunch of **** that went down. I don't know if you were around then. It was a pretty big deal back then. It was contentious but true.

[LukeA]

We were calling someone on the carpet for a bunch of **** that went down. I don't know if you were around then. It was a pretty big deal back then. It was contentious but true.

I'm assuming you're talking about Trinity & Jonathan Todd. JT was (and still is) completely clueless, but Trinity absolutely got a bad rap. We ended up running into each other at several shows, and he was always a great guy. I dare anyone who's ever met him to say otherwise.

[DavidMn]

I'm assuming you're talking about Trinity & Jonathan Todd. JT was (and still is) completely clueless, but Trinity absolutely got a bad rap. We ended up running into each other at several shows, and he was always a great guy. I dare anyone who's ever met him to say otherwise.I can second that. He is a good guy from what I could tell.:)

[DavidMn]

Luke brought up a point in a previous post that made me think. Where he said the FM people are probably discussing shortening or not lengthening the tour beyond say 45 or so shows. Maybe that will give them more time to go back in the studio to make a record before they go back out in say late 2010? See the glass really is half full.:):laugh:

[LukeA]

I can second that. He is a good guy from what I could tell.:)

Yes. For all the people who assumed that he was JT's minion, he chose to BUY front row tickets for opening night of the SYW tour in Columbus (sitting between me, and the kooky mother & daughter who swore up and down they weren't involved with a website that will go unnamed- ah, memories). He's a big fan. We ran into each other in several other cities across the Midwest- I hope for his sake he's going to Rosemont, St. Paul, and whatever shows are added in the region.

[gldstwmn]

I'm assuming you're talking about Trinity & Jonathan Todd. JT was (and still is) completely clueless, but Trinity absolutely got a bad rap. We ended up running into each other at several shows, and he was always a great guy. I dare anyone who's ever met him to say otherwise.

Oh yes. Let's open up that old can of worms. :laugh:

[wolfontherun]

I'm assuming you're talking about Trinity & Jonathan Todd. JT was (and still is) completely clueless, but Trinity absolutely got a bad rap. We ended up running into each other at several shows, and he was always a great guy. I dare anyone who's ever met him to say otherwise.

OTHERWISE. Now what are you going to do about it pal?

[DavidMn]

OTHERWISE. Now what are you going to do about it pal?Now that's REALLY intelligent!:laugh: You say otherwise in bold letters, then challenge Luke, but yet you give no reason for your statement or anything to back it up. you just pretty much shot yourself in the ass pal.

[wolfontherun]

Now that's REALLY intelligent!:laugh: You say otherwise in bold letters, then challenge Luke, but yet you give no reason for your statement or anything to back it up. you just pretty much shot yourself in the ass pal.


Hu? He dared someone to say the word OTHERWISE. So I said it. He is the only ass here. He calls other Ledgies "ignorant" when he doesn't agree with a comment. That is an ASS.

[LukeA]

Hu? He dared someone to say the word OTHERWISE. So I said it. He is the only ass here. He calls other Ledgies "ignorant" when he doesn't agree with a comment. That is an ASS.

It *is* ignorant to make a judgment based on only one piece of information- and suggesting that the touring industry is recession-proof solely based on the fact that the grosses were at an all time high IS ignorant. I'm not an "ass".

Now, have you met Trinity, or were you just trying to make said ironic comment/statement?

[David]

Now, have you met Trinity, or were you just trying to make said ironic comment/statement?I remember him from Mick Fleetwood's message forum. He was an ass-kisser, & so was his colleague (Jackie or Jenny or something).

[TrueFaith77]

Oh yes. Let's open up that old can of worms. :laugh:

I missed out on so much! what was I doing circa 2003-2004? :shrug:

[wolfontherun]

It *is* ignorant to make a judgment based on only one piece of information- and suggesting that the touring industry is recession-proof solely based on the fact that the grosses were at an all time high IS ignorant. I'm not an "ass".

Now, have you met Trinity, or were you just trying to make said ironic comment/statement?

My statement was not based exclusively on that article. Perhaps you are the ignorant one for not knowing that it has been a long held assumption that entertainment is recession pfoof.

Even during the depression people flocked to the movies. There are countless examples of to back up my statement. If we were in a court of law I would have provided them along with the links to back up my statement.

Anyway am not going to get into an argument with you over all that.

You have no justification or right to call someone ignorant. Who the f*** do you think you are anyway?

[LukeA]

My statement was not based exclusively on that article. Perhaps you are the ignorant one for not knowing that it has been a long held assumption that entertainment is recession pfoof.

Even during the depression people flocked to the movies. There are countless examples of to back up my statement. If we were in a court of law I would have provided them along with the links to back up my statement.

Anyway am not going to get into an argument with you over all that.

And that's probably a good thing, because it would be pretty hard for you to try to compare a $10 movie ticket with a $75-$100+ concert ticket.