old article- abortions

[Remy]

So I've been browsing through some old articles...This one from VOX mag, 1992. Deserted by Mick Fleetwood, bullied by her record company, and haunted by the memory of four abortions, Stevie Nicks is rich but not happy.

FOUR??

[chriskisn]

So I've been browsing through some old articles...This one from VOX mag, 1992. Deserted by Mick Fleetwood, bullied by her record company, and haunted by the memory of four abortions, Stevie Nicks is rich but not happy.

FOUR??

Hmm...maybe someone could have explained to her about contraception... :D

[Tango]

Yes FOUR. Neither Stevie or her partners were particlarly responsible people. This conversation always tends to end up being judgemental, but it's part of her past. I guess this article pops up from time to time here and on other boards. The whole band did a lot of drugs--more than most of us can imagine. They were not particularly responsible in a lot of areas of their lives. Mick did a lot of drugs, cheated on his wife and went bankrupt, several times. I suspect if pregnancy were a possibility in men's lives, a few of the men in Fleetwood Mac would also be pregnant several times! Lindsey did a lot of drugs and 'abused' at least two women. John did a lot of drugs and became a alcoholic, and was self destructive to his own health. Did they all practice safe sex? Who knows. But it's doubtful. Christine did a lot of drugs and alcohol--but had herself sterilized. Did she get sterilized after having had to "deal" with the situation in the past? Only she knows. It's a drastic step. Perhaps she is the most responsible of the irresponsible in the band.

If anyone is looking for 'role models of the 70s for your children', this might not be a good band to choose. Then again are there role models from rock & roll bands from the 70s or any era? People on drugs/alcohol or 'other influences' aren't particularly responsible folks. They do make for interesting discussion. It's their history that makes them who they are. Their history fashioned and affected their music. They find they can't always fix the past. Their regret is in their music.

Christine points out:
Why not think about times to come,
And not about the things that you've done

Yesterday's gone. Yesterday's gone.

[Remy]

I wasn't about to be judgemental. I was wondering if the author had it right.

[SortaSavageLike]

Are you sure? I heard she has 1,457,312,641 abortions. :shrug:

[Sanne2]

I have that article, it's a very interesting read not just because it mentions the abortions but also it tells something about the state she was in at the time (a very bad state)

[DashingDan]

I have that article, it's a very interesting read not just because it mentions the abortions but also it tells something about the state she was in at the time (a very bad state)

Yes, it is a very interesting read. She's very plaintive and pathetic-sounding at times. I purchased the mag back when it came out, not knowing it had a Stevie article in it. I was really psyched when I turned the page and saw it, but after I read it. and saw the pictures, I was bummed out for days. There were many details in the article that made me think,"Wow, she's really checked out of life".. I had pretty much given up on her being productive after reading that (particularly after seeing a very piss-poor zonked out timespace show). Remember, no one knew about the klonopin then, and she wasn't talking about it either.

[BellaDonna93]

Yes, it is a very interesting read. She's very plaintive and pathetic-sounding at times. I purchased the mag back when it came out, not knowing it had a Stevie article in it. I was really psyched when I turned the page and saw it, but after I read it. and saw the pictures, I was bummed out for days. There were many details in the article that made me think,"Wow, she's really checked out of life".. I had pretty much given up on her being productive after reading that (particularly after seeing a very piss-poor zonked out timespace show). Remember, no one knew about the klonopin then, and she wasn't talking about it either.

Can anyone post the article here, please? I really want to read it!

[Sanne2]

Can anyone post the article here, please? I really want to read it!

You're lucky I already had it scanned and on my pc :)
http://img139.imagevenue.com/loc496/th_41934_st-026_122_496lo.jpg (http://img139.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=41934_st-026_122_496lo.jpg)http://img45.imagevenue.com/loc1068/th_41936_st-028_122_1068lo.jpg (http://img45.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=41936_st-028_122_1068lo.jpg)http://img227.imagevenue.com/loc541/th_41947_st-029_122_541lo.jpg (http://img227.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=41947_st-029_122_541lo.jpg)

[joe68]

Can you make it bigger? Thanks!!!!

[BellaDonna93]

Can you make it bigger? Thanks!!!!

Well, thanks for posting Sanne2 :)

Joe68: You can click on the image and then it'll be bigger!

[joe68]

Sorry but no - its not working for me. :( Anything else i can do?

[strandinthewind]

There have been threads about this topic and article before. Essentially, there is a debate about whether La Nicks is talking about the four loves of her life or whether she is explicitly stating that she had four abortions. I believe this article comes from a live interview which should be available somewhere. In that interview, it is unclear as to her meaning, though I think she refers to the four great loves and not four abortions.

Also, this discussion usually winds up getting into a big fight. So, I think we should drop it. At least I am.

[Sanne2]

Sorry but no - its not working for me. :( Anything else i can do?

It works fine for me, but if you click a thumb and it doesn't load, click it away and try again, it's an imagevenue-thing.

[Remy]

Thanks Sanne!
I'll never quite understand how they got back all together after all this drama and heartbreak. And from Stevie's words, Mick really comes out as a cold, calculating man.
Well, it's a miracle she bounced back from that sorry state long ago.

[RoseGarden]

Thanks Sanne!
I'll never quite understand how they got back all together after all this drama and heartbreak. And from Stevie's words, Mick really comes out as a cold, calculating man.
Well, it's a miracle she bounced back from that sorry state long ago.

The last page says that if this were FM, then Mick would of been the white night that picked her up and refuse to make her sing this song:rolleyes:

Yes, I would never want to hurt Stevie about commenting on if she has had 4 abortions. I Do remember Pat Benetar slowing her career down to have her child back in the day. It just seems kind of selfish to have mulitple abortions and claim it's all for the fans. As much as I love most of Stevies' music , I think it was more about the money and life in the fast lane then she'd like to admit. :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

I think she has admitted that in that she said she had to be in FM and she loved being in FM.

As for the abortions, she admitted to aborting Henley's child after Henley flat out said that Sara was about they aborted child, to wit:

The following quote is taken from Don Henley's 1991 interview with GQ:

[Henley's prodigious romantic escapades would include an affair with Stevie Nicks, who] "I believe to the best of my knowledge became pregnant by me. And she named the [unborn] kid Sara, and she had an abortion and then wrote the song of the same name to the spirit of the aborted baby. I was building my house at the time, and there's a line in the song that says ‘And when you build your house, call me.''

Following the release of that issue of GQ, there was a Stevie mention in the Sunday Parade, where a reader wrote in and asked how Stevie responded to Don's statement. The answer was:

"Stevie Nicks, 43, won't comment on Henley's revelation, only replies that they 'remain friends'. But in the notes to her new 'Best of' album, the singer writes candidly of love affairs she has had with rock stars Mick Fleetwood, Joe Walsh, and Henley. 'Finally, after all those years', Nicks says, 'people have to understand why these songs were written and why I sometimes get so emotional on stage, why I sometimes burst into tears.'"

Stevie was also asked about the GQ comment in an interview with Mary Turner in 1994. She responded by saying Don had to make many an apologetic phone call. La Nicks later said that after many phone calls and many deliveries of flowers, she forgave Don for the revelation. She also said she would never have revealed that to the world in that manner. She'd rather do it through her songs or something like that - I don't have the exact quote.

In any event, I find it hard to believe that La Nicks would say to a reporter that she had four abortions no matter how upset she was. She seemingly is way too conscious of her image for that.

[RoseGarden]

Well, one admitted abortion is enough for me to think the money and the fast lane was more important. Just an observation.

Like I stated, Pat Benetar was a heavy rocker that lost maybe 4 years out of a career , to take time out to have a child . Having a baby is not the end of the world. Talented artist can still move forward. How long did it take in between rehabs and such to get back on track? We fans still buy her music and go to her concert.

Not trying to bash Stevie, it's her right to her privacy. but this subject was brought up and I just contributed. sorry if you disagree:confused:

[strandinthewind]

Well, one admitted abortion is enough for me to think the money and the fast lane was more important. Just an observation.

Like I stated, Pat Benetar was a heavy rocker that lost maybe 4 years out of a career , to take time out to have a child . Having a baby is not the end of the world. Talented artist can still move forward. How long did it take in between rehabs and such to get back on track? We fans still buy her music and go to her concert.

Not trying to bash Stevie, it's her right to her privacy. but this subject was brought up and I just contributed. sorry if you disagree:confused:

Oh - I think the money and fame were why she got the abortion we know about. She has all but said this because she has said ad nausem that there was never any time for kids, etc. I mean La Nicks pretty much toured and recorded every year from 1975 to 1991. So, I agree with you that she did not want children and chose to have a job instead.

What I don't agree with was that she was greedy and/or selfish to a fault for chosing those things (I am unsure if you were saying this - so it is meant as in general). I think she likely agonized over the decision to abort. Remember, she was not the huge star she is today, though she was well on her way to that. She likely thought there would be time later. This theory is supported by the repeated statements in interviews up until like 1992, wherein she talks about taking time off and having a child of her own.

Plus, the context of the times must also be considered. For her to have a baby out of wedlock in 1976 would have made her an outcast and would have ruined her career. It just was not really done then, though that timeframe was the beginning of the end of that line of thinking. Nowadays, that is not the case.

As for her abortion, I could care a less. I think that is between her and her conscious :shrug: Many people (in general) cannot take this view, which, to me is sad.

[galestreet]

What does Stevie say about the abortions now, does she ever talk about them? I've had friends that have had multiple abortions and their lives changed and they were very sorry about that time in their lives. I wonder what Stevie feels anyway. Some people don't care, others feel a loss.

[strandinthewind]

The only think I remember was the line about Don Henley sending the flowers, etc. - and how she would never have chosen to reveal that to the world that way.

I think she likely does not really want to talk about it. Having said that, she is always going on about how she gave up the family life for stardom. So, she kind of opens the door to the conversation about it.

In the end, I think most people realize it is not really anyone's business, etc.

[CADreaming]

Possible that the drugs played a part in her decision...or her own body made the decision for her....maybe she couldn't carry a child to term. Happens. It would make sense. She seemed to be very emotional about it...

[RoseGarden]

A womans right to choose is ultimatly the womans right. But when a woman has star status IS going to raise controversy as many girls will follow their idols footstep in believing their idol is always right.


Being in the limelight , fairly or unfairly , makes the actions of the famous an influential decision on many who idolize this famous one. Right or wrong---that's a fact.

[RoseGarden]

Possible that the drugs played a part in her decision...or her own body made the decision for her....maybe she couldn't carry a child to term. Happens. It would make sense. She seemed to be very emotional about it...

Agreed, drugs played a big part of many decisions in her career. My point, is her career was always first choice. Not that this is fair. Maybe many of the male Mac could of fathered many children we do not know of. (unknown)

Many female artist had / have decided when the time was RIGHT FOR THEM to have a child. It's just the way it is.
Most famous people don't make songs about it or speak of it to become controversy later---that's all. I don't condem Stevie nor praise her. It's a womans right.

[strandinthewind]

A womans right to choose is ultimatly the womans right. But when a woman has star status IS going to raise controversy as many girls will follow their idols footstep in believing their idol is always right.


Being in the limelight , fairly or unfairly , makes the actions of the famous an influential decision on many who idolize this famous one. Right or wrong---that's a fact.

***By the way, Madonna song "papa don't preach" insprired me to have my child at a young unwed age and put the child up for adoption.

Well, to be fair, La Nicks never publicized this and likely never would have :shrug: Henley let the cat out of the bag and she expressed that she was horrified by that. So, it is likely no one would have followed her at the time or ever.

Again, I do not think the Vox article is accurate. So, I do not think she said she had four abortions.

[RoseGarden]

Well, it's an ugly contraversal peice to speak about. The fact that she was always high on drugs and had many affairs leans to the fact that unprotected sex was a way of life (and that's not just for her stature----much of that went on in the late 70's and 80's). I'd like to think the best of Stevie myself----but those kind of things happened, it is just seems uglier for a woman than a man for obvious reasons.


I really doubt , Don Henly would WANT to voulenteer that information NOR make it a fabriacation as it brings him negative publicity. I for one wrote him and the Eagles off after hearing it. Any man can sing but it takes a REAL man to stand up and take responsibility for what they've done .

4? 4?? I do not want to believe that either. And either way it is Stevies business. But in my eyes it probably is 4 and perhaps more. Living weatlhy and on drugs in the regards of millions would make a person want to hang on to the lime light forever.

[CADreaming]

Agreed, drugs played a big part of many decisions in her career. My point, is her career was always first choice. Not that this is fair.

My point was that she may have been forced to terminate pregnancies that she actually wanted because she couldn't carry a child to term.

[RoseGarden]

My point was that she may have been forced to terminate pregnancies that she actually wanted because she couldn't carry a child to term.

That could possibly be, but judging by Stevies' songs---no offense---she always plays the innocent victim. I think she would have wrote a powerful song in what this felt like. After all, she doesn't leave much behind in what's going on her mind/head even if it is coated.

****Sarah for example, now who would have guessed? named for the poet in her heart.


We all obviously see this in a different way, so I am gonna just leave this alone and read the added post without commenting . Just wanted to share my toughts.

[PenguinHead]

If anyone is looking for 'role models of the 70s for your children', this might not be a good band to choose. Then again are there role models from rock & roll bands from the 70s or any era? People on drugs/alcohol or 'other influences' aren't particularly responsible folks. They do make for interesting discussion. It's their history that makes them who they are. Their history fashioned and affected their music. They find they can't always fix the past. Their regret is in their music.



I differ from your perspective. Role models are not perfect the design (by who's standards?), but those who have lived through and overcome and suceeded despite extreme circumstances. The members of Fleetwood Mac fit that bill, and I don't see any of the band members now suffering in regret over their past real life experiences! In fact, it's been a source of inspiration for their art! And it's made them the people they are today. (Stevie's revisionist take on this issue is extremely hypocritcal in my opinion...but whatever). The litmis test for you seems to be their drug history. I'm less judgemental on this subject.

[strandinthewind]

. . . 4? 4?? I do not want to believe that either. And either way it is Stevies business. But in my eyes it probably is 4 and perhaps more. Living weatlhy and on drugs in the regards of millions would make a person want to hang on to the lime light forever.

It's not that I don't want to believe it. I actally do not really care. I am just noting that the wording of the article does not conclusively prove that she had four and she admitted to one when she was outed so to speak. In that article, she is quoted on having lost four men in her life that she loved because those men could not handle her fame, etc. Then, the author paraphrases [babies] into a quote while she is still speaking about the men. There is no quote of La Nicks saying she had four abortions in that article. Instead, the author suggests it without any support. There is a huge discussion about this in the fan forum on Nancy's board "www.buckinghamnicks.net" Do a word search there for vox abortion four - You'll get an eyeful :eek:

Also, I also think a sense of obligation played into it. Not only was she part of FM and leaving that would affect the main four people she loved - but it would also affect hundreds of people depend on her for their paychecks. She has repeatedly spoken of her obligation to them as well. So, I think that played a part of it as did the fame and wealth.

In the end, until we see her say it, we'll never really know for sure. And, I just can't see her saying it. But, you never know.

[strandinthewind]

That could possibly be, but judging by Stevies' songs---no offense---she always plays the innocent victim. I think she would have wrote a powerful song in what this felt like. After all, she doesn't leave much behind in what's going on her mind/head even if it is coated.

****Sarah for example, now who would have guessed? named for the poet in her heart . . . .

With respect, La Nicks has never said Sara was about anything other than what was going on in FM at the time. I believe she also said Sara is her friend Sara. Don Henley said the reference to "when you build your house, call me home" was a reference to the house he was building.

In the end, all of this is just speculation on everyone's part. So, I say give your opinion and no one has the right to tell you not to :cool:

[strandinthewind]

. . . The members of Fleetwood Mac fit that bill, and I don't see any of the band members now suffering in regret over their past real life experiences! In fact, it's been a source of inspiration for their art! (Stevie's revisionist take on this issue is extremely hypocritcal in my opinion...but whatever) . . . .

???????

How is she revising anything?

La Nicks admits to the drugs and openly speaks of her addictions. She also has said that the inner turmoil in FM caused great art and that angst still exists to day and is an inspiration to her and LB.

[PenguinHead]

???????

How is she revising anything?

La Nicks admits to the drugs and openly speaks of her addictions. She also has said that the inner turmoil in FM caused great art and that angst still exists to day and is an inspiration to her and LB.

I'm mostly referring her recent hard stance in "warning" about the dangers of drugs, as if she is offering some kind of newfound sage advice to a new generation. She means well, but every generation has some aspect of culture that is influenced by some varied of altered state of mind, whatever the medium, and whatever the cost (one she has greatly benefitted from).

In the past, she never made excuses for her experiences and her history...and she never preached. I admired her resolute approach of it was what it was..no regrets...it was fun...it provided inspiration for a while...but now it's time to move on.
But Stevie Nicks issuing public service-like statements about using drugs makes me wince sometimes. She comes off like a naive grandma saying "do as I say, but not what I did."

(excuse my misspellings...Spellcheck isn't available here and I'm too lazy to consult a dictionary.)

[PenguinHead]

[QUOTE=
In the end, until we see her say it, we'll never really know for sure. And, I just can't see her saying it. But, you never know.[/QUOTE]

Is this information we should be waiting for?? Wh0 the heck are we or anyone else to cast any judgement on her personal history??? It's her life, her decisions, her past! The essential thing is we all enjoy her spirit, her image and her art. She's, by years of evidence, a nice, decent, creative being. I see no productive reasoning in discussing and debating a personal issue that she wanted to remain personal.

[David]

In the end, all of this is just speculation on everyone's part. So, I say give your opinion and no one has the right to tell you not to :cool:Remember that one ledgie who believed SARA was about the political turmoil in Indonesia in the 1960s?

[strandinthewind]

Remember that one ledgie who believed SARA was about the political turmoil in Indonesia in the 1960s?

I warned you not to cause that inserection - but, did you listen to me - noooooooooooooooooo :cool:

[DeeGeMe]

If I would have ingested the drugs and alcohol that the Mac did back in the day and gotten pregnant I have to admit, I'd seriously have considered abortion too just for the health concerns of the fetus. It's her business. I think we know from her statements that she regrets not having children and the career came first. Her choice. Her life. Or as Kate Hepburn once said (and this is paraphrased): You can have a brilliant career, wonderful kids, and a terrific marriage. Choose two."

[David]

If I would have ingested the drugs and alcohol that the Mac did back in the day and gotten pregnant I have to admit, I'd seriously have considered abortion too just for the health concerns of the fetus. It's her business. I think we know from her statements that she regrets not having children and the career came first. Her choice. Her life. Or as Kate Hepburn once said (and this is paraphrased): You can have a brilliant career, wonderful kids, and a terrific marriage. Choose two."Stevie is the Beethoven of her day, some say: No kids, no marriage, complete devotion to art & career, wild hair, wild heart, short in stature, imposing in demeanor.

Beethoven was deaf; Stevie is blind.

Both prone to irritable bowels & both fond of baked freshwater fish.

[strandinthewind]

Not to mention both were rather clever with the written word:

Though still in bed, my thoughts go out to you, my Immortal Beloved, now and then joyfully, then sadly, waiting to learn whether or not fate will hear us - I can live only wholly with you or not at all - Yes, I am resolved to wander so long away from you until I can fly to your arms and say that I am really at home with you, and can send my soul enwrapped in you into the land of spirits - Yes, unhappily it must be so - You will be the more contained since you know my fidelity to you. No one else can ever possess my heart - never - never - Oh God, why must one be parted from one whom one so loves. And yet my life in V is now a wretched life - Your love makes me at once the happiest and the unhappiest of men - At my age I need a steady, quiet life - can that be so in our connection? My angel, I have just been told that the mailcoach goes every day - therefore I must close at once so that you may receive the letter at once - Be calm, only by a calm consideration of our existence can we achieve our purpose to live together - Be calm - love me - today - yesterday - what tearful longings for you - you - you - my life - my all - farewell. Oh continue to love me - never misjudge the most faithful heart of your beloved.
ever thine
ever mine
ever ours

:shrug:

[darla]

Yes I agree with you catdancer....There could have been times when
she wanted the child but could not carry to long term...
Everyone please do not judge her. And if Stevie was on drugs it might
have been way to hard for her to stop and it could have hurt the fetus....
The baby may have been born retarded...No one knows but Stevie....
She is human...And I personally do not believe it is four abortions.
Darla

My point was that she may have been forced to terminate pregnancies that she actually wanted because she couldn't carry a child to term.

[GODDESS6]

i have always respected stevie's privacy on this topic~ whether or not it happened or how many times, doesn't affect how i feel about her~ i will never know what it was like, especially back then, to walk a day in her shoes~ & i don't mean any of us who have dreamed of being stevie, the on stage persona we all love, but the one we know had many, many dark days in her life also, & i won't judge her decisions on how she handled things in her personal life~ i can't imagine some of the pressure she must have been under, especially after becoming a successful member of fm~

[michelej1]

I haven't read this article again and I may be getting it wrong, but I not only find it difficult to believe Stevie said she had 4 abortions. I can't believe she said something along the lines of 'I slept with them all.' That's just not like her!

Again, I don't want to read the article and I'm just going from memory of what I think it says. Michele

[michelej1]

I really doubt , Don Henly would WANT to voulenteer that information NOR make it a fabriacation as it brings him negative publicity. I for one wrote him and the Eagles off after hearing it. Any man can sing but it takes a REAL man to stand up and take responsibility for what they've done .


Such as it was, I don't think Don's reputation suffered at all. I think it was a rather boastful statement and I wouldn't put it in the category of, "No one would possibly admit this if it wasn't true." I think it probably is true, but I also think Don was kind of pleased with himself and was bragging.

Michele

[michelej1]

Or as Kate Hepburn once said (and this is paraphrased): You can have a brilliant career, wonderful kids, and a terrific marriage. Choose two."

It seems to me that Kate Hepburn chose ONE. I'm not counting that relationship with Spence as either a marriage or as terrific, which is not to say I don't admire the strength of the bond.

Michele

[RoseGarden]

It does make for an interesting conversation, but most people on here are correct. This is her business and as a fan, I would just like her to know so glad she's healthy and happy and made it to still be rocking at 60.

[Ghost_Tracker]

Are you sure? I heard she has 1,457,312,641 abortions. :shrug:

Stevie has also been in love exactly 17 thousand and twelve times. :angel:

But the BIG loves of her life - the REALLY Earth-SHATTERING ones - - - were Lindsey, Don Henley, Joe Walsh, Jimmy Iovine, Tom Petty, Prince, Paul Fishkin, Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, Christine McVie, Karen Anderson, Kenny Rogers, Mike Campbell, Sheryl Crow, Waddy Wachtell, some anonymous waiter, and this guy named "You" who fell in love in 1958. :laugh:

[CADreaming]

and this guy named "You" who fell in love in 1958. :laugh:

Man, I forgot all about him...

[Phoenix]

Stevie has also been in love exactly 17 thousand and twelve times. :angel: LLY Earth-SHATTERING ones - - - were Lindsey, Don Henley, Joe Walsh, Jimmy Iovine, Tom Petty, Prince, Paul Fishkin, Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, Christine McVie, Karen Anderson, Kenny Rogers, Mike Campbell, Sheryl Crow, Waddy Wachtell, some anonymous waiter,

But the BIG loves of her life - the REAand this guy named "You" who fell in love in 1958. :laugh:

OMG. U did the math.:laugh:

[Bella Figura]

[QUOTE=RoseGarden;784610]That could possibly be, but judging by Stevies' songs---no offense---she always plays the innocent victim. I think she would have wrote a powerful song in what this felt like. After all, she doesn't leave much behind in what's going on her mind/head even if it is coated.


personally I think the Tower demo is Her Song about losing a child whether via abortion or miscarriage or life's choices...I know those lyrics speak to me about my miscarriage...

being in the tower was being in that hospital room for me..."don't take me to the tower and take my child away"

"and I who went to sleep as two woke up as one" was being pregnant and then not...

the chorus lyrics came later when the song morphed into Goodbye Baby making it more a lost love song...

btw, I never had kids myself, it's not always a choice that can be made later down the road...

[RoseGarden]

^^^I agree that that is a VERY sensitive song that only a woman can understand.

I am sorry you have hurt in that part of yourlife. From one woman to another!

[strandinthewind]

I think The Tower was one song and that song later morphed into Goodbye Baby, which I think is about LB.

I think The Tower is part of the Rhiannon songs that La Nicks wrote for the Rhiannon movie she was part of for awhile in the 70's.

For those interested, one of the stories of Rhiannon is that she was accused of killing her infant. It later is revealed that her servants stole the child from the castle while she was recovering from the birth and framed her by leaving a puppy's blood and bones on the cradle. The child is then found, she forgiven, and all is fairly well.

It fits that theme.

Note -- it is entirely possible La Nicks tapped into her own experience in that song as well. In fact, many of her songs are about more than one person and/or event, with the vague common theme being La Nicks' seemingly personal loss.

[Johnny Stew]

But the BIG loves of her life - the REALLY Earth-SHATTERING ones - - - were.....
You forgot about Andy. Stevie was totally smitten with him, and he inspired one of her greatest songs.

"Andy was just like a great dark wing...."

She was also quite taken with Howie and his strength & determination.

"Howie could make it... Howie could get out...."

She's had many loves, our Stevie.

[strandinthewind]

You forgot about Andy. Stevie was totally smitten with him, and he inspired one of her greatest songs.

"Andy was just like a great dark wing...."

She was also quite taken with Howie and his strength & determination.

"Howie could make it... Howie could get out...."

She's had many loves, our Stevie.

Don't forget the rappers "Diamond Snake" and "Black Sky" :angel:

[chriskisn]

Stevie has also been in love exactly 17 thousand and twelve times. :angel:

But the BIG loves of her life - the REALLY Earth-SHATTERING ones - - - were Lindsey, Don Henley, Joe Walsh, Jimmy Iovine, Tom Petty, Prince, Paul Fishkin, Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, Christine McVie, Karen Anderson, Kenny Rogers, Mike Campbell, Sheryl Crow, Waddy Wachtell, some anonymous waiter, and this guy named "You" who fell in love in 1958. :laugh:

Actually I don't mind Stevie's promiscuity. It means I'm still in with a chance!!! :lol:

[michelej1]

Actually I don't mind Stevie's promiscuity. It means I'm still in with a chance!!! :lol:

I think she's more picky now than she used to be. Michele

[strandinthewind]

I think she's more picky now than she used to be. Michele

Other than she tended to date (not just go to bed with) her producers, etc. -- I don;t think there is any evidence other than speculation that she went to bed with people at the drop of a hat, pulled trains, etc. In the end, all we really know is she dated like 10 guys in 30 years. To me, that does not suggest that she was not picky in the sense that though none of them worked out, that is not that unusual of a number :shrug:

[michelej1]

Other than she tended to date (not just go to bed with) her producers, etc. -- I don;t think there is any evidence other than speculation that she went to bed with people at the drop of a hat, pulled trains, etc. In the end, all we really know is she dated like 10 guys in 30 years. To me, that does not suggest that she was not picky in the sense that though none of them worked out, that is not that unusual of a number :shrug:

Actually, I meant that comment only to tease Chris who joked that he still had a chance with Stevie. I was trying to imply that he did NOT have a chance.

It was not a reflection on Stevie's promiscuity, although on that subject, I am not particularly influenced by your arguments and do not agree with your male consumption totals.

Michele

[strandinthewind]

. . . It was not a reflection on Stevie's promiscuity, although on that subject, I am not particularly influenced by your arguments and do not agree with your male consumption totals.

Michele

:rolleyes:

I specifically said the ones we know of. You can specualte all you want, but I prefer facts :wavey:

[chriskisn]

I think she's more picky now than she used to be. Michele

:distress:

Now I'm sad. Though not sure my wife would be overly happy about the whole thing either... ;)

[michelej1]

:distress:

Now I'm sad. Though not sure my wife would be overly happy about the whole thing either... ;)

It would make her enjoy Stevie's music even less.

:rolleyes:

I specifically said the ones we know of. You can specualte all you want, but I prefer facts :wavey:

Speculate all I want? I have never speculated at all about the number of men Stevie has slept with. It's not really something I want to think about. Aside from that, my comment about her not being picky was a joke having little to do with Stevie and --even if it had -- it goes to quality, not quantity, so I am unsure why you would respond to that remark by explaining how many men you think she has slept with in how many years.

A more appropiate response would be to tell me what high standards she has for selecting the men she beds. I suppose that would be on point, proving that she was indeed among the pickiest of humans when it comes to sex.

Michele

[chriskisn]

It would make her enjoy Stevie's music even less.

Michele

Do you think that could be possible? :shocked:

[strandinthewind]

It would make her enjoy Stevie's music even less.

Speculate all I want? I have never speculated at all about the number of men Stevie has slept with. It's not really something I want to think about. Aside from that, my comment about her not being picky was a joke having little to do with Stevie and --even if it had -- it goes to quality, not quantity, so I am unsure why you would respond to that remark by explaining how many men you think she has slept with in how many years.

A more appropiate response would be to tell me what high standards she has for selecting the men she beds. I suppose that would be on point, proving that she was indeed among the pickiest of humans when it comes to sex.

Michele

Well, no.

The exchange was this (emphasis supplied) :

Actually I don't mind Stevie's promiscuity. It means I'm still in with a chance!!! :lol:


you replied:

I think she's more picky now than she used to be. Michele

So, clearly, you were replying to the statment "I don't mind Stevie's promiscuity" -- you were saying that she was not picky in her promiscuity or casual sex with multiple partners in the past :shrug:

I then said that we do not know for sure how many men she has slept with - i.e. the one she was promiscuous with. We only know the ones she says she dated or who said they dated her. Dating is not really the same as promiscuity in that La Nicks seemingly dated these known guys each for awhile, which is not really the definition of promiscuous. Thus, my reply.

On edit - she may have been the whore of Babylon for all we know. But, there is no proof of it. Thus, it is speculation only.

[chriskisn]

Well, no.


So, clearly, you were replying to the statment "I don't mind Stevie's promiscuity" -- you were saying that she was not picky in her promiscuity in the past :shrug:




Hmm...no I think Michele was just having a dig at me. I don't think it particularly referred to Stevie at all and nor was I particularly making a comment on Stevie's sex life.

Oh well, I'll remember to check the sense of humour at the door next time. I'm sure it will be easier to fit in. ;)

[Tango]

Actually, I meant that comment only to tease Chris who joked that he still had a chance with Stevie. I was trying to imply that he did NOT have a chance.

It was not a reflection on Stevie's promiscuity, although on that subject, I am not particularly influenced by your arguments and do not agree with your male consumption totals.

Michele

I get the teasing, but hmmm. "Consumption." I believe it was an old western term for tuberulous. Doc Holiday suffered from it. Are you now revealing, here on The Ledge, Ms. Nicks also suffered from consumption!???? ;)

[michelej1]

So, clearly, you were replying to the statment "I don't mind Stevie's promiscuity" -- you were saying that she was not picky in her promiscuity or casual sex with multiple partners in the past :shrug:


That's not what I was replying to. That's all in your mind, which is intent upon jumping to Stevie's defense even when she's not in peril and tortuously misconstruing facts and posts to do so.

As far as Stevie knowing all of her past partners well, from her own description of events that simply isn't true, for instance with Joe and Rupert. Jason, you just make up things to prove points that aren't even in contention.

I get the teasing, but hmmm. "Consumption." I believe it was an old western term for tuberulous. Doc Holiday suffered from it. Are you now revealing, here on The Ledge, Ms. Nicks also suffered from consumption!???? ;)

Well, that would explain why she started wearing all the shawls. Both Stevie and Christine have said that Stevie was always sickly!

Michele

[strandinthewind]

That's not what I was replying to.

Then why did you quote it :shrug:

Actually I don't mind Stevie's promiscuity. It means I'm still in with a chance!!! :lol:


you replied:

I think she's more picky now than she used to be. Michele

The use of "than she used to be" indicated she used to promiscuous.

But, if you say you did not mean it like that, so be it. But, it reads either way :shrug:
____________________________________________________________________________________________

As far as Stevie knowing all of her past partners well, from her own description of events that simply isn't true, for instance with Joe and Rupert.

Well, I was going by the ones she admitted in articles and interviews to dating. If some other source has indicated to you that she has dated someone we know nothing about, then I am all ears :shrug:

Until then, I'll stick to the names of the people she said she dated. To my knowledge, these people (including Joe Walsh) were not one night stands. She dated these people in a long term manner.

As for your BS about me "jumping to Stevie's defense even when she's not in peril and tortuously misconstruing facts and posts to do so." I am not doing that no matter how much you try to flatter yourself by saying it. I simply thought you had nothing to defend your "use" of the word promisuous with. And, for the record, you don't or at least you haven't produced anything.

In the end, I no longer give a shiitte.

Jason, you just make up things to prove points that aren't even in contention.

Whatever :rolleyes:

Hey - here's a thought, why don't you quote this and then issue a response and then claim you are talking about something else :wavey:

[David]

Lindsey: "Packin' up, shackin' up is all you wanna do"

Stevie likes lovin'!

[strandinthewind]

Lindsey: "Packin' up, shackin' up is all you wanna do"

Stevie likes lovin'!

In her pollen laden fields of honey :woohoo:

[BTFLCHLD]

er...who cares? :angel:

how many and any end result of the boys she bangs is really her personal business... :D

I'd be more curious to read about various ledgie sexual encouters... :eek: : perv :

[michelej1]

As for your BS about me "jumping to Stevie's defense even when she's not in peril and tortuously misconstruing facts and posts to do so." I am not doing that no matter how much you try to flatter yourself by saying it. I simply thought you had nothing to defend your "use" of the word promisuous with. And, for the record, you don't or at least you haven't produced anything.


I did not use the word promiscuous. I responded to anther point in someone else's sentence that contained that word and you suddenly decide, appropos to nothing, that Stevie is being called promiscuous. I couldn't quote the part where Chris said he still had a chance with Stevie without quoting the rest of his sentence, or my reply would never have made sense. But it had nothing to do with Stevie sleeping around except to you.

I've never insinuated that Stevie was promiscuous and in this thread in particular I've questioned the accuracy of an article that suggests that she is. I said the quotes don't sound like her at all.

So, why would I present any evidene to defend the statement when she's not promiscuous when I never made that statement?

Flatter myself? Your persistent and over-reaching defense of Stevie is not flattering me at all. I assume you intend to flatter Stevie by your behavior, but I don't think you're very successful in doing so. Quite the opposite.

In the end, I no longer give a shiitte.


You shouldn't have given one in the first place.

Michele

[strandinthewind]

. . . how many and any end result of the boys she bangs is really her personal business... :D :

Exactly, and while we may know most of the guys she's dated, we'll never know for sure and can only speculate about the banging for that very reason - and rightfully so.

I'd be more curious to read about various ledgie sexual encouters... :eek: : perv :

www.smut.com :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

I did not use the word promiscuous. I responded to anther point in someone else's sentence that contained that word and you suddenly decide, appropos to nothing, that Stevie is being called promiscuous. I couldn't quote the part where Chris said he still had a chance with Stevie without quoting the rest of his sentence, or my reply would never have made sense. But it had nothing to do with Stevie sleeping around except to you.

I've never insinuated that Stevie was promiscuous and in this thread in particular I've questioned the accuracy of an article that suggests that she is. I said the quotes don't sound like her at all.

So, why would I present any evidene to defend the statement when she's not promiscuous when I never made that statement?

Flatter myself? Your persistent and over-reaching defense of Stevie is not flattering me at all. I assume you intend to flatter Stevie by your behavior, but I don't think you're very successful in doing so. Quite the opposite.



You shouldn't have given one in the first place.

Michele

Get a clue about sentence structure why don't ya :laugh:

In the end - let's just stop this because you'd argue with a wall.

You're always right and other's need to realize that - happy now :wavey:

[michelej1]

Get a clue about sentence structure why don't ya :laugh:

In the end - let's just stop this because you'd argue with a wall.

You're always right and other's need to realize that - happy now :wavey:

I wasn't arguing or even conversing with you at all. Don't use one of my posts to launch one of your overzealous springs to Stevie's protection if you don't want a reply.

Michele

[strandinthewind]

I wasn't arguing or even conversing with you at all. Don't use one of my posts to launch one of your overzealous springs to Stevie's protection if you don't want a reply.

Michele

You're always right and other's need to realize that - happy now :wavey:

[michelej1]

You're always right and other's need to realize that - happy now :wavey:

Well, it's not a question of being right or wrong. It's really just a failure to understand why if Stevie says she likes tapioca pudding, you think you have to defend tapioca to the death, plus throw in a couple of claims about tapioca's health benefits.

Then, if I said, you know, that chocolate pudding is yummy. You'd think that was a slur against Stevie and the tapioca.

Michele

[strandinthewind]

Well, it's not a question of being right or wrong. It's really just a failure to understand why if Stevie says she likes tapioca pudding, you think you have to defend tapioca to the death, plus throw in a couple of claims about tapioca's health benefits.

Then, if I said, you know, that chocolate pudding is yummy. You'd think that was a slur against Stevie and the tapioca.

Michele

You're always right and other's need to realize that - happy now :wavey:

[RockAlot]

Yes FOUR. Neither Stevie or her partners were particlarly responsible people. This conversation always tends to end up being judgemental, but it's part of her past. I guess this article pops up from time to time here and on other boards. The whole band did a lot of drugs--more than most of us can imagine. They were not particularly responsible in a lot of areas of their lives. Mick did a lot of drugs, cheated on his wife and went bankrupt, several times. I suspect if pregnancy were a possibility in men's lives, a few of the men in Fleetwood Mac would also be pregnant several times! Lindsey did a lot of drugs and 'abused' at least two women. John did a lot of drugs and became a alcoholic, and was self destructive to his own health. Did they all practice safe sex? Who knows. But it's doubtful. Christine did a lot of drugs and alcohol--but had herself sterilized. Did she get sterilized after having had to "deal" with the situation in the past? Only she knows. It's a drastic step. Perhaps she is the most responsible of the irresponsible in the band.

If anyone is looking for 'role models of the 70s for your children', this might not be a good band to choose. Then again are there role models from rock & roll bands from the 70s or any era? People on drugs/alcohol or 'other influences' aren't particularly responsible folks. They do make for interesting discussion. It's their history that makes them who they are. Their history fashioned and affected their music. They find they can't always fix the past. Their regret is in their music.

Christine points out:
Why not think about times to come,
And not about the things that you've done

Yesterday's gone. Yesterday's gone.

Wow, I just had to say "WOW"... ... That is so ture !!

[Steviefan49]

i have always respected stevie's privacy on this topic~ whether or not it happened or how many times, doesn't affect how i feel about her~ i will never know what it was like, especially back then, to walk a day in her shoes~ & i don't mean any of us who have dreamed of being stevie, the on stage persona we all love, but the one we know had many, many dark days in her life also, & i won't judge her decisions on how she handled things in her personal life~ i can't imagine some of the pressure she must have been under, especially after becoming a successful member of fm~

I'm with you on this Jill! I SOOO respect her privacy... and no way would I judge anyone's decisions on this topic at all!

Hugs,

Arlene

[wolfontherun]

Well, one admitted abortion is enough for me to think the money and the fast lane was more important. Just an observation.

Like I stated, Pat Benetar was a heavy rocker that lost maybe 4 years out of a career , to take time out to have a child . Having a baby is not the end of the world. Talented artist can still move forward. How long did it take in between rehabs and such to get back on track? We fans still buy her music and go to her concert.

Not trying to bash Stevie, it's her right to her privacy. but this subject was brought up and I just contributed. sorry if you disagree:confused:

But Pat benator is not a Stevie Nicks and is certainly no where near FM so the comparison is not a fair one. Also PB career died in the mid to late 80s and never recovered. Yes I know she still tours but today she is not relevant and Stevie is.

On a lighter note her recreation of her home on a soundstage to get better lighting is the single funniest bit of Divadom I have ever read, you go Stevie.

[wolfontherun]

:]Stevie is the Beethoven of her day, some say: No kids, no marriage, complete devotion to art & career, wild hair, wild heart, short in stature, imposing in demeanor.

Beethoven was deaf; Stevie is blind.

Both prone to irritable bowels & both fond of baked freshwater fish.

:]:]

BTW to all does it matter if she had 1 or 10? I think not. Stevie is the only one who needs to be concerned witht his issue and no one else.

[cratesok6]

Stevie has also been in love exactly 17 thousand and twelve times. :angel:

But the BIG loves of her life - the REALLY Earth-SHATTERING ones - - - were Lindsey, Don Henley, Joe Walsh, Jimmy Iovine, Tom Petty, Prince, Paul Fishkin, Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, Christine McVie, Karen Anderson, Kenny Rogers, Mike Campbell, Sheryl Crow, Waddy Wachtell, some anonymous waiter, and this guy named "You" who fell in love in 1958. :laugh:

If you do the math, that's alot of abortions per love affair! Oh, and you forgot to add me, which by the way inspired her to write just about every song she ever wrote (except Sara of course).

[cratesok6]

You forgot about Andy. Stevie was totally smitten with him, and he inspired one of her greatest songs.

"Andy was just like a great dark wing...."

She was also quite taken with Howie and his strength & determination.

"Howie could make it... Howie could get out...."

She's had many loves, our Stevie.

:lol::lol::lol:

[dnightshade]

Wow. I never know what sort of conversations I'll come across to report back on when I come here. I guess I should try and find the time to get back more often. I usually don't say much - just observe - but I feel the need to say this: This whole abortion thing needs to be put to Rest, okay? It was all a long time ago and has absolutely no relevence now. And to bring it up is hurtful and disappointing to people. Whether it's one or 100 doesn't matter to anyone but the person who had to live through it. And no one knows the pain someone might still be carrying and the effect it might still have.

Good call on "The Tower", absolutely right. But it's still an incredibly poignant song.

Oh, and for the record, "dating" someone doesn't necessarily mean going to bed w them. Friendships can be incredibly passionate and affectionate w/out being sexual. Drama takes place outside the bedroom as well, just an FYI.

And comparing someone's behavior 25-30 years ago is beside the point. Drugs and alcohol do interfere w rational (and responsible) thoughts and actions, obviously. So I don't quite get the purpose of agruing about what someone did or didn't do under the influence.

This is all I'm saying.

[skcin]

Seems that some here often seem to confuse this message board with a courtroom. Damn near impossible to read a post without mention of statements. defense, conclusions & evidence. Yawwwwwwn.

But Pat benator is not a Stevie Nicks and is certainly no where near FM so the comparison is not a fair one. Also PB career died in the mid to late 80s and never recovered. Yes I know she still tours but today she is not relevant and Stevie is.
On a lighter note her recreation of her home on a soundstage to get better lighting is the single funniest bit of Divadom I have ever read, you go Stevie.

Are you for real? :laugh: What makes Stevie relevant today?
Please tell me.

[strandinthewind]

Seems that some here often seem to confuse this message board with a courtroom. Damn near impossible to read a post without mention of statements. defense, conclusions & evidence. Yawwwwwwn.



Are you for real? :laugh: What makes Stevie relevant today?
Please tell me.

Who pissed in your fukcing Cheerios :rolleyes:

[David]

How come we never talk about Bekka's abortions?

[skcin]

Who pissed in your fukcing Cheerios :rolleyes:

What's making you so defensive? :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

What's making you so defensive? :wavey:

I just had a facial and am blotchy and antsy.

Why aren't you here to drink with me :confused:

[strandinthewind]

How come we never talk about Bekka's abortions?

Let's leave her songs out it shall we :wavey:

[skcin]

How come we never talk about Bekka's abortions?

David, this is the Stevie forum. Please take your discussions about Bekka to the Post-Rumouirs Era forum. :mad:

[DashingDan]

How come we never talk about Bekka's abortions?

Cos The Lady's were way more fabulous, that's how come.

[wolfontherun]

Seems that some here often seem to confuse this message board with a courtroom. Damn near impossible to read a post without mention of statements. defense, conclusions & evidence. Yawwwwwwn.



Are you for real? :laugh: What makes Stevie relevant today?
Please tell me.


Uhm if you don't know than maybe you shouldn't be in a Stevie forum. I will try to educate you a bit. Here are just a few things that make her relevant in 2008.

Song writting. Many artists have talked about her influence on them. Not once have I ever heard anyone say that Pat was an influence in this respect.

Fashion. Several top designers have been influenced by her style and have talked about it as have many starlets.

Nothing against Pat, I like her, but when was the last time anyone of any talent or importance covered or sampled one of her songs?

[RoseGarden]

This conversation is all one sided. None of these mentioned female artist got pregnant on their own. Not fair the sperm donor gets diregarded as if he had no part in this controversial subject.:shocked:

[LukeA]

But Pat benator is not a Stevie Nicks and is certainly no where near FM so the comparison is not a fair one. Also PB career died in the mid to late 80s and never recovered. Yes I know she still tours but today she is not relevant and Stevie is.

Just exactly how delusional are you?

[strandinthewind]

I just don't get all the people thinking Pat Benatar was ever on the level of FM or La Nicks, even in the 80's, during which she got like seven platinum records, three gold records, and 19 Top 40 singles. There is no doubt Pat Benatar was a great singer (mezzo soprano) and did great, great material. I loved her stuff and still listen to it.

But, her relevance on the music scene pretty much stopped after 1985's Seven the Hard Way. For example, 1984's Tropico's single "We Belong" became a solid Top 5 smash in America (also hitting UK #22 and AUS #7) but the LP Tropico became her first studio album since the 1979 debut to fail to crack the US Top 10, reaching #14 (AUS #9). A second single release, "Ooh Ooh Song," reached U.S. #36. Then, in 1985, Seven the Hard Way's first single "Invincible" hit the U.S. Top 10 with the #10 and "Sex As a Weapon" hit #28 in January 1986 and the LP Seven the Hard Way peaked at #26, earning an RIAA Gold certification.

Conversely, La Nicks and FM stayed relevant with million plus sales until about 1989. Then both fell from relevance until 1997's The Dance, after which she and they stayed relevant in terms of public spotlight until now.

So, while FM and La Nicks' popularity and relevance have diminished since the 80's, clearly they are way more relevant than Pat Benatar ever was. This is not a slight on Benatar's talent, which is immense. It is just a matter of fact.

Put it this way, in this decade alone, La Nicks has been in well over 100 written interviews and primetime and other popular tv spots. Benatar cannot claim that clout no matter how immense her talent is, which it is :shrug:

[LukeA]

Stevie's solo career- when it comes to the past or present- isn't all that far apart from Pat Benatar's.

Both had a string of big hits in the early-mid 80's, then largely disappeared.
Both were once-upon-a-time frequently dubbed "The Queen of Rock and Roll".
Both haven't been artistically relevant on ANY level for at least five years (and that's being generous, for both)
Both are perfectly content with re-packaging/re-releasing their same greatest hits over and over again.
Both never met a casino/corporate gig they didn't like.

[trackaghost]

Yes, but NME now says Stevie is cool and Pat was nowhere on that list! :D

That's why I hate these threads about Stevie's abortions, they always end up in an argument over whether Pat Benatar or Stevie is the biggest has-been!

[wolfontherun]

I just don't get all the people thinking Pat Benatar was ever on the level of FM or La Nicks, even in the 80's, during which she got like seven platinum records, three gold records, and 19 Top 40 singles. There is no doubt Pat Benatar was a great singer (mezzo soprano) and did great, great material. I loved her stuff and still listen to it.

But, her relevance on the music scene pretty much stopped after 1985's Seven the Hard Way. For example, 1984's Tropico's single "We Belong" became a solid Top 5 smash in America (also hitting UK #22 and AUS #7) but the LP Tropico became her first studio album since the 1979 debut to fail to crack the US Top 10, reaching #14 (AUS #9). A second single release, "Ooh Ooh Song," reached U.S. #36. Then, in 1985, Seven the Hard Way's first single "Invincible" hit the U.S. Top 10 with the #10 and "Sex As a Weapon" hit #28 in January 1986 and the LP Seven the Hard Way peaked at #26, earning an RIAA Gold certification.

Conversely, La Nicks and FM stayed relevant with million plus sales until about 1989. Then both fell from relevance until 1997's The Dance, after which she and they stayed relevant in terms of public spotlight until now.

So, while FM and La Nicks' popularity and relevance have diminished since the 80's, clearly they are way more relevant than Pat Benatar ever was. This is not a slight on Benatar's talent, which is immense. It is just a matter of fact.

Put it this way, in this decade alone, La Nicks has been in well over 100 written interviews and primetime and other popular tv spots. Benatar cannot claim that clout no matter how immense her talent is, which it is :shrug:


Oh well Strand, we tried, don't think the PB fans are listening though. I wonder what people on her website have to say about Stevie?

I was a fan of Benatar because of Crimes of Passion which is a brilliant piece of music but after that my tastes kinda changed and I rejected that too tough chick image in favor of the willowy waif image of Nicks and Merchant.

I also never forgave Benatar for stealing the Grammy from Stevie in 83 (?) The time Mick was the presenter, I remember thinking oh the producers know that Stevie won and that is why they are having Mick present the category. Maybe it was someone's idea of a sick joke.

[strandinthewind]

Both had a string of big hits in the early-mid 80's, then largely disappeared.

No - Enchanted and TISL sold very well and certainly way better than anything Benatar did since 1985. Moreover, La Nicks sells sheds and other small venues on her own and did so even in the SA era. Moreover, with FM (which must be considered because she is a significant (not the only mind you) part of FM's relevance) she sells arenas, a feat Bentar has not done since, maybe 1985.

Both were once-upon-a-time frequently dubbed "The Queen of Rock and Roll".

La Nicks is still called this :shrug:

Both haven't been artistically relevant on ANY level for at least five years (and that's being generous, for both)

Well, La Nicks has headlined tours on her own this year and had the relevance to be considered seriously for Celine Dion's theatre in Vegas three years ago, which she played. Moreover, La Nicks has the relevance to be in the news all the time and her new releases (even the reissues with the one or two new songs) get Leno, Letterman, The Today Show, etc. because of her continued, though diminished, relevance.

Both are perfectly content with re-packaging/re-releasing their same greatest hits over and over again.

True. But, that only means La Nicks has not recorded a new comnplete record since SYW. Again, she is still in the public light though - look at her Soundstage and its reception.

Both never met a casino/corporate gig they didn't like.

What does this have to do with relevance? A gig is a gig :shrug: But, if you want to go down that road, La Nicks has never toured as part of an ensemble of bands whose last hits were in the 80's. La Nicks is her own headliner to this day, unless she co-headlines with Petty or Henley (again she has the relevance to do this), arguably two of the larger stars in the world :shrug:
__________________________________________

In the end, Benatar is an amazing talent who was never relevant and popular from like 1979 to 1985, but even in the six years of the height of her popularity (which was significant) she was never really in the same league with La Nicks solo or FM as far as sales and public exposure go. La Nicks' voice and talent have helped sell over 100 million records world wide and she is still pretty much instantly recognizeable by most, though certainly that has faded too. Benatar never really had that popularity or relevance.

[David]

Both were once-upon-a-time frequently dubbed "The Queen of Rock and Roll".Wasn't it just all the Stevie fans who continually called Stevie that after the Rolling Stone editors used the epithet on their Stevie cover story (& certainly never used it again & certainly didn't give Stevie concert or album reviews that sounded as if anyone on staff there thought she was the greatest rocker of all)?

But all this relevance stuff reminds me of a seminar Robert Scholes once gave at Brown University. The prospectus said: "We will at all times read a 'primary' text through a theoretical text. We hope in this to avoid the notion that the theory of reading & the practice of reading can be divorced. Those not conversant with recent theory of reading will not acquire it in isolation from texts, but will at the very least be led to posit a dialectical relationship between texts. Thus a Lawrence story will be read through Todorov's Poetics of Prose, Bertolucci's Before the Revolution will be read through Althusser on Brecht. Ideally, we would like at the end of eight weeks to have reached the point in our work in which a seminar member might undertake to read Todorov through Lawrence, or to theorize his own position as a reader through an examination of Before the Revolution."

Never mind the tautologizing, highfalutin jargon, obnubilation, & deadwood, I'm dead certain that I have nothing to gain from reading Todorov through Todorov, let alone through D.H. Lawrence. Nor would I, while in the possession of a shred of sanity, wish to theorize my own position on Before the Revolution as a reader through Althusser. I wouldn't even watch Before the Revolution through a bunch of women wearing big hats.

[strandinthewind]

I do not think she or any others have given her this status. The coronation by RS as the "reigning" Queen of R&R suggests her reign could end, which it likely did. But, this designation has been repeated in stories about La Nicks. So, it has been perpetuated that way and even though she has not achieved that status since the RS cover, which, again, suggested it was temporary.

An example of a permanent title is Aretha Franklin as "The Queen of Soul."

[trackaghost]

Pat Benatar was once called "the Queen of rock and roll"?

[SortaSavageLike]

Pat Benatar was once called "the Queen of rock and roll"?

That was before people found out that she was a man. :p

[RoseGarden]

I may be mistaken, but I seem to remember in the 80's where Pat Benatars career was going strong and Pat decided she 'd rather have a baby and be a a family person over keeping the R&R status.

[CADreaming]

I may be mistaken, but I seem to remember in the 80's where Pat Benatars career was going strong and Pat decided she 'd rather have a baby and be a a family person over keeping the R&R status.

Or was it just that Spider is no Lindsey Buckingham...:shrug:

[mgikallaroundme]

Or was it just that Spider is no Lindsey Buckingham...:shrug:

Bingo! Not back in the day and certainly not now. No comparison. I do realize you're not talking about guitar playing. ;)

Back to the subject at hand. Let this abortion thing go back under the dirty carpet where it belongs. The name Stevie Nicks and the word abortion appeared together in print. So ****ing what?

Perception is not reality.

[RoseGarden]

You're lucky I already had it scanned and on my pc :)
http://img139.imagevenue.com/loc496/th_41934_st-026_122_496lo.jpg (http://img139.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=41934_st-026_122_496lo.jpg)http://img45.imagevenue.com/loc1068/th_41936_st-028_122_1068lo.jpg (http://img45.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=41936_st-028_122_1068lo.jpg)http://img227.imagevenue.com/loc541/th_41947_st-029_122_541lo.jpg (http://img227.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=41947_st-029_122_541lo.jpg)

Well, for all the jibber jabber about all other female artists mentioned, this is what was written about Stevie.

[skcin]

Uhm if you don't know than maybe you shouldn't be in a Stevie forum. I will try to educate you a bit. Here are just a few things that make her relevant in 2008.

Song writting. Many artists have talked about her influence on them. Not once have I ever heard anyone say that Pat was an influence in this respect.

Fashion. Several top designers have been influenced by her style and have talked about it as have many starlets.

Nothing against Pat, I like her, but when was the last time anyone of any talent or importance covered or sampled one of her songs?


Wow. Thank you. You've certainly made me see the light.


:lol:


Dude. I love Stevie. LOVE her. I am not a rabid Pat Benetar fan, I am a rabid Stevie fan. That's why I'm still here after all this time.

But I am way past the point of defeninding her to the end. As much as I love her, I cannot delude myself into thinking that she's really, truly relevant today. Now. I'm not talking about 11 years ago. Or 7 years ago. Or 5 years ago. Today. Touring over & over again singing "greatest hits" & releasing no new material does not make an artist relevant. Others covering her songs is great too, but this does not make her relevant in today's world. Besides, the last officially released cover was what, almost 4 years ago? "Starlets" wearing similar style clothing doesn't mean **** - Stevie did not invent hankerchief hems & platform boots, and the National Enquirer calling an outfit "very Stevie Nicks" does not make her influential in fashion today.

There's a big difference between influential & relevant. :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

I agree that in the last three years she lost more of her relevance. For example, she gets significant press when she releases things, like the latest Soundstage. But, even with that diminshed relevance, La Nicks is still more relevant today than Pat Bentar is, which was the point made. A good example of this in the last year was the press regarding Sheryl Crowe joing FM and the interplay between La Nicks and LB. I do not think a change in Pat Benatar's band would have gotten that much attention. So, La Nicks is still relevant in that way and likely will get it on some level larger than Pat Benatar. Another example was the press Lucinda Williams got when she covered SS. I do not think Pat Benatar would have gotten that press. Note - without FM and the promise another tour and, perhaps record, La Nicks would be far less relevant as far as staying in the public light because she is not releasing new material except for a live cover here and there.

Is La Nicks still in general relevant in terms of record sales, etc.? No, she is not. Moreover, she has not been since TISL, and even TISL was hardly the million plus seller she wanted/needed for a return to the relevance The Dance got her and FM. But and again, even with that diminshed relevance, she is more relevant than Pat Benatar is today, which was the point made. I think this is due to La Nicks' careful manipulation of the press and her public exposure - more power to her for it.

As an aside and once again, I am not slamming Pat Benatar. I think she is a huge talent and I love her stuff. Frankly, I wish she would do another record as her style and talent is sorely missed in today's world.

[skcin]

I do not think a change in Pat Benatar's band would have gotten that much attention.

Neither would a change in Stevie's solo band. :cool:

And wolfontherun posted that Stevie is relevant today. I'm saying neither she nor Pat are truly relevant today. :p Relevant is probably not the best word to use anyway, but I know what he/she meant:

1. Relieving; lending aid or support. [R.] --Pownall.

2. Bearing upon, or properly applying to, the case in hand; pertinent; applicable.

Close and relevant arguments have very little hold on the passions. --Sydney Smith.

3. (Scots Law) Sufficient to support the cause.


I will agree that Stevie is more infuential musically & as a songwriter, but relevant? I think we're kidding ourselves if we think that our girl is considered all that relevant in today's celebrity and/or music world. :shrug: JMO.

[trackaghost]

Well, to be fair if Sheryl Crow said she were joining Pat Benatar's touring band I bet it would get press!

And Strand wasn't it Patty Loveless not Lucinda Williams who covered Silver Springs?

[strandinthewind]

Well, to be fair if Sheryl Crow said she were joining Pat Benatar's touring band I bet it would get press!

Touche'

But, the fact remains it likely got way more press because it was FM. Also, La Nicks keeps herself in the press every other month or so - her Soundstage raised eyebrows and the talk of the new FM tour has been buzzing about for the last year. So, there is relevance there and it is far more than Pat Benatar these days, which was the point being made.

To be sure, La Nicks and FM for that matter are far less relevant that they were 10 years ago. But, Paula makes it sound like La Nicks solo or with FM goes unnoticed in the music world and that, to me, is not the case. For example, I bet La Nicks solo or with FM could work with any producer in the industry should she or they choose to do so. That indicates relevance to me.

And Strand wasn't it Patty Loveless not Lucinda Williams who covered Silver Springs?

I'm old and senile - whattayawant :wavey:

[David]

As an aside and once again, I am not slamming Pat Benatar. I think she is a huge talent and I love her stuff. I never got into her scene. I never liked her voice or the songs she recorded or the sound & style of her band. To me, it was all vapid AOR & hamfisted anthems.

[David]

But, the fact remains it likely got way more press because it was FM. I come from newspapering. An item gets put on the wire, & hundreds of papers pick it up -- not because it's particularly newsworthy or important but because it's simply there. There are always awkward news holes to fill, & being able to quickly grab a single-graph item allows a rim editor to finish his pages on time & go home.

[strandinthewind]

I come from newspapering. An item gets put on the wire, & hundreds of papers pick it up -- not because it's particularly newsworthy or important but because it's simply there. There are always awkward news holes to fill, & being able to quickly grab a single-graph item allows a rim editor to finish his pages on time & go home.

I agree about print media and am fairly sure Liz Rosenberg makes sure La Nicks stays in there - but La Nicks and FM get primetime televisi0n as well, which requires production dollars for a 20 or so minute segment :shrug:

It actually is interesting to me because La Nicks and FM have really not sold comparatively well at all since The Dance, though they sell pretty well on the tours and even La Nicks on her latest rehash tour. So, they and she must be relevant to a significant number of people. Otherwise, the industry would not back her tours, which are expensive.

[wolfontherun]

Wow. Thank you. You've certainly made me see the light.


:lol:


Dude. I love Stevie. LOVE her. I am not a rabid Pat Benetar fan, I am a rabid Stevie fan. That's why I'm still here after all this time.

But I am way past the point of defeninding her to the end. As much as I love her, I cannot delude myself into thinking that she's really, truly relevant today. Now. I'm not talking about 11 years ago. Or 7 years ago. Or 5 years ago. Today. Touring over & over again singing "greatest hits" & releasing no new material does not make an artist relevant. Others covering her songs is great too, but this does not make her relevant in today's world. Besides, the last officially released cover was what, almost 4 years ago? "Starlets" wearing similar style clothing doesn't mean **** - Stevie did not invent hankerchief hems & platform boots, and the National Enquirer calling an outfit "very Stevie Nicks" does not make her influential in fashion today.

There's a big difference between influential & relevant. :shrug:

Whatever dude. Oh and try all the major fashion magazines, not the rag you mentioned, as well as many of the top designers.

[wolfontherun]

Neither would a change in Stevie's solo band. :cool:

And wolfontherun posted that Stevie is relevant today. I'm saying neither she nor Pat are truly relevant today. :p Relevant is probably not the best word to use anyway, but I know what he/she meant:

1. Relieving; lending aid or support. [R.] --Pownall.

2. Bearing upon, or properly applying to, the case in hand; pertinent; applicable.

Close and relevant arguments have very little hold on the passions. --Sydney Smith.

3. (Scots Law) Sufficient to support the cause.


I will agree that Stevie is more infuential musically & as a songwriter, but relevant? I think we're kidding ourselves if we think that our girl is considered all that relevant in today's celebrity and/or music world. :shrug: JMO.


Get over yourself dude. Your wrong, she is more popular than Benatar, more relevant oh and sexier too.

And did I mention a better songwriter?

[wolfontherun]

I never got into her scene. I never liked her voice or the songs she recorded or the sound & style of her band. To me, it was all vapid AOR & hamfisted anthems.


"Hamfisted anthems" you really do have a way with words and as usual are very accurate. :-)

[ajmccarrell]

"Hamfisted anthems" you really do have a way with words and as usual are very accurate. :-)

Wow! I guess I'm not the only one who gets into fights around here. Seems we just plain have a bellicose board.

[Phoenix]

Wow! I guess I'm not the only one who gets into fights around here. Seems we just plain have a bellicose board.

BELLICOSE!! Thems' Fightin' words!!:laugh:

[MariaA37]

Wow! I guess I'm not the only one who gets into fights around here. Seems we just plain have a bellicose board.

:::Stepping in to calm things down a bit::::

For some reason, I never really heard the whole story about Silver Springs. I always thought that she asked Mick for the song for Timespace and he just said no to be a b*****d, but now it seems that he wanted the Fleetwood Mac song for the Fleetwood Mac box set. That makes sense and maybe she was a little wrong for getting so mad at him for that.

Hope I didn't start another fight!

~Maria

[LukeA]

For some reason, I never really heard the whole story about Silver Springs. I always thought that she asked Mick for the song for Timespace and he just said no to be a b*****d, but now it seems that he wanted the Fleetwood Mac song for the Fleetwood Mac box set. That makes sense and maybe she was a little wrong for getting so mad at him for that.


Yes. Mick was well within his right, and Stevie was completely unreasonable with her anger over the whole thing. Nothing stopped her from re-recording the song if she so desperately wanted it on Timespace.

[DeeGeMe]

Her voice had significantly changed from the time that it was originally recorded and the way her voice sounded by the Timespace era. And since Mick had booted SS off of Rumours the least he could have done was to let her have it for TS. Songs frequently do appear in more than one greatest hits package as we all know and it would have done no harm for SS to be on both the FM gift set and TS.

[strandinthewind]

Her voice had significantly changed from the time that it was originally recorded and the way her voice sounded by the Timespace era. And since Mick had booted SS off of Rumours the least he could have done was to let her have it for TS. Songs frequently do appear in more than one greatest hits package as we all know and it would have done no harm for SS to be on both the FM gift set and TS.

I kind of agree, but I am sure it was complicated given that FM produced it and FM played on it. Moreover, if she had any reservations about her voice having changed, etc. - - that was the voice used in The Dance, and The Dance version was in a killer voice.

I guess everything happens for a reason. I mean had Mick not pissed La Nicks off, La Nicks may not have insisted on doing SS for The Dance, assuming she did.

[skcin]

Whatever dude. Oh and try all the major fashion magazines, not the rag you mentioned, as well as many of the top designers.

Please point me in the direction of these articles/mentions. :wavey: Like I said, I've been here a while & have read damn near all of them, and I don't recall reading that many, at least not recently. It may seem that there are tons because we fans are constantly scouring the media for any Stevie mentions & posting them here, but in the grand scheme of things? I dunno about that. And what "top designers" have named her as an influence? Hilfigger going through her closet 10 years ago isn't enough to make me think that Stevie herself has much of an influence in fashion today.

Get over yourself dude. Your wrong, she is more popular than Benatar, more relevant oh and sexier too.

And did I mention a better songwriter?

I never disagreed with you on any of those points. :shrug:

[darla]

aren't we getting off topic here...
And let's forget about the abortions...
Next subject :wavey:

[trackaghost]

To be fair Paula, I agree with you that Stevie has lost much of her relevance but that said, Anna Sui as recently as this year for her fall collection still cited Stevie as an inspiration. And I read last year Tom Ford talking about how much he loves Stevie's look. She was also on NME's cool list last week, which is one of the most influential music mags here in the UK, which is pretty impressive. It is for the 70s Stevie, the nostalgic image of when she was most popular though rather than how she is today, but she's more relevant that Pat Benatar for sure.

[Remy]

Whoa! I'm sorry to see people arguing, but at the same time, this thread is darn long& alive -and I started it! Hee-hee. :cool: excuse my silliness

[skcin]

To be fair Paula, I agree with you that Stevie has lost much of her relevance but that said, Anna Sui as recently as this year for her fall collection still sited Stevie as an inspiration. And I read last year Tom Ford talking about how much he loves Stevie's look. She was also on NME's cool list last week, which is one of the most influential music mags here in the UK, which is pretty impressive. It is for the 70s Stevie, the nostalgic image of when she was most popular though rather than how she is today, but she's more relevant that Pat Benatar for sure.

I'm not saying that nobody cites her as an influence anymore, but to say she's inspired"many top designers" or that she's mentioned in "every fashion magazine" is a bit of a reach IMO. :shrug:

And again - I agree that Stevie is more relevant than Pat Benatar (poor Pat :distress: :laugh:) but I still don't think it's realistic to think that either of them is really all that relevant currently. No matter how much I want it to be the case, I just don't think it is. People still roll their eyes when Stevie is mentioned, and people still don't know who I'm talking about when I mention her name, and people still seem surprised & say "she still tours?" when I mention the shows I've seen. She's on our radar because we're fans & we are starved for any tidbit of info about her.

aren't we getting off topic here...
And let's forget about the abortions...
Next subject :wavey:

No way - this is the longest discussion The Ledge has seen in months!:laugh:

Whoa! I'm sorry to see people arguing, but at the same time, this thread is darn long& alive -and I started it! Hee-hee. :cool: excuse my silliness

Good job. :D

[strandinthewind]

. . . No way - this is the longest discussion The Ledge has seen in months!:laugh:

It's because of my relevance on The Ledge and my totally humble nature :cool: :wavey:

[Phoenix]

No way - this is the longest discussion The Ledge has seen in months!:laugh:



Good job. :D

I agree with you there. I just wonder who you (and this is not any attempt to be snide, Paula i love u.) but who you consider to be deemed as "relevant". I know you posted the literal meaning afew pages back, but any time i try to think of anyone who is, i come up with a blank. There just really seems to be a lack of any good celebs now a days.

[strandinthewind]

I agree with you there. I just wonder who you (and this is not any attempt to be snide, Paula i love u.) but who you consider to be deemed as "relevant". I know you posted the literal meaning afew pages back, but any time i try to think of anyone who is, i come up with a blank. There just really seems to be a lack of any good celebs now a days.

I'd argue Britany Spears. Womanizer was a number one hot and has been in the top ten for seven weeks - all before the album drops next week or so. She also has a 90 minute special this week on MTV. She also will get a huge press junket when the album drops. Expect her on Oprah, The View, the Tomight Show, Letterman, etc. I am not a huge fan of her's, but she seemingly has got her shiitte back together and is highly relevant once again in the music industry. Note - she has always been relevant on the tabloids.

[Phoenix]

I'd argue Britany Spears. Womanizer was a number one hot and has been in the top ten for seven weeks - all before the album drops next week or so. She also has a 90 minute special this week on MTV. She also will get a huge press junket when the album drops. Expect her on Oprah, The View, the Tomight Show, Letterman, etc. I am not a huge fan of her's, but she seemingly has got her shiitte back together and is highly relevant once again in the music industry. Note - she has always been relevant on the tabloids.

ahh, so meaning relevant in the sense that shes everywhere. Personally i think shes a twit. Spoiled and crazy with too much sense of entitlement. Sure she breathes her way through some catchy jams. (that some top producer cooked up for her)all the while sexin it up with that "i grew-up wanting to be madonna" conviction but in no way do i think shes "interesting". She really hasn't CONTRIBUTED. What will she be remembered for? wearing a school-girl outfit? shaving her head? There really isnt any intrigue really. Kinda like Paris Hilton. I love that one song "nothing in this world" i think its called, and am every now and then on my most board day im LIGHTLY amused by her mtv show, but REALLY? REALLY? is this the caliber of Celebrity that we have now? Is this the best we can do? Fake tanned girls being "sexy" and "fabulous" and that's whats considered Relevant? that scares and depresses me. Makes me wonder who will be the relevant celebs ten years from now, what will they have to do show up in a studio in between starbucks runs, then cough, sneeze and then go be "fabulous". and people will think WOW. They are amazing. Definitely relevant. Relevant to what? to Who? Good lord thats depressing.

[Zombie]

This is a question referring to the article that was posted, but NOT about the abortions, because I have no business commenting on what people choose to do with the contents of uteruses not my own.

I've heard it many times that she was unhappy about having to sing "Sometimes It's a Bitch," but the stuff she says in that article about the fans not being receptive - I was too young when the song was released, so I don't have any firsthand knowledge - were fans really that upset about it?

Obviously, Stevie was upset about it - but I am curious about the fan reaction when the song was released.

[strandinthewind]

I, too, think it is rather pathetic that the prepacked star is the way music has gone in terms of relevance. But, that has been happening since the birth of Rock and Roll. The Supremes are a good example of that. I love The Supremes, but there is little depth in their music as opposed to Joni Mitchell, Dylan, etc.

So, I guess to each their own.

[wolfontherun]

I'm not saying that nobody cites her as an influence anymore, but to say she's inspired"many top designers" or that she's mentioned in "every fashion magazine" is a bit of a reach IMO. :shrug:

And again - I agree that Stevie is more relevant than Pat Benatar (poor Pat :distress: :laugh:) but I still don't think it's realistic to think that either of them is really all that relevant currently. No matter how much I want it to be the case, I just don't think it is. People still roll their eyes when Stevie is mentioned, and people still don't know who I'm talking about when I mention her name, and people still seem surprised & say "she still tours?" when I mention the shows I've seen. She's on our radar because we're fans & we are starved for any tidbit of info about her.



No way - this is the longest discussion The Ledge has seen in months!:laugh:



Good job. :D


Why do you keep putting words in my mouth and in quotes too, I never said "every magazine" Jeesh enough already. This is my last word on the matter.

[louielouie2000]

I, too, think it is rather pathetic that the prepacked star is the way music has gone in terms of relevance. But, that has been happening since the birth of Rock and Roll. The Supremes are a good example of that. I love The Supremes, but there is little depth in their music as opposed to Joni Mitchell, Dylan, etc.

So, I guess to each their own.

I think you kind of answered your own question/statement there :) . As long as there has been some form of popular music, there has been a bubblegum version of it. I don' think there are any fewer talented artists these days, I think there are just fewer talented artists who are famous.

Case and point, my favorite artist outside of Fleetwood Mac, Joseph Arthur. He probably has more talent in his pinky than Fleetwood Mac did with all it's 16 members. In 10 years he has released something like 200+ songs (and is said to have just as many unreleased), all of which are written by him, performed by him, produced by him, he plays like every instrument under the sun, etc. His music isn't amateurish at all either, he's every bit as polished yet envelope pushing as Fleetwood Mac. He just isn't on a major record label.

I think that's where the real problem lies: record companies have become too much an influence on what the market receives, and they are far too involved in artists works. They are not only dumbing down what's recorded, but also what reaches us. This was a huge problem in the 50s and early 60s too, so maybe it'll be cyclical, and we'll get a fresh burst of change again.

Now to stray back on topic :D. For what it's worth, I do believe Stevie had all those abortions. Being a gay man, I have known so many who have strayed into that drug addled lifestyle. That lifestyle makes people promiscuous, insane, and totally lacking in decent judgement. The big difference in gay men and people like Stevie is, the fact that those gay men get HIV, not pregnant obviously. I've seen it happen again and again to people I know, it's terrible and heartbreaking. Most aren't half bad people. I don't think Stevie's a horrible person either, though she may have done some horrible things. We all have. While I find that number of abortions insanely aweful, I just can't judge her for it, as much as I may want to. I guess I am just so happy after all these years that she's still around, still performing for us. I *DO* however judge her for not giving us any new material, but that's another topic yet! :laugh:

[skcin]

I agree with you there. I just wonder who you (and this is not any attempt to be snide, Paula i love u.) but who you consider to be deemed as "relevant". I know you posted the literal meaning afew pages back, but any time i try to think of anyone who is, i come up with a blank. There just really seems to be a lack of any good celebs now a days.

No, ITA w/ you. I was trying to figure that out myself & come up with a different adjective. Important? Influential? Famous? Those are 3 very different things to me, and I don't know if any really means "relevant." Maybe all 3 do & it's up to you to decide which one fits your idea of relevant.

I think Spears (that f*cking pig) is relevant today to pop culture & music. Whether we like it or not, she will be remembered for a long, long time. Has she contributed to music? I suppose. Will artists come along in a few years & say they were inspired by her? Good God I hope not, but it will probably happen. But does fame itself make one relevant?

Musically relevant could mean historically important - yes, Stevie is relevant in that aspect, to the history of music. I don't think that makes her relevant today. Patty Griffin is very relevant to music currently - she's a critically acclaimed singer & songwriter who is not that well known to the general public. She's not famous, but extremely talented. Her music has been covered repeatedly by artists like Dixie Chicks, Kelly Clarkson, Emmylou Harris, Reba, Bette Midler, Martina McBride & Joan Baez to name a few. I would say she's pretty damned relevant in the music industry right now although most don't know who the hell she is.

So it's pretty subjective, I guess. Depends on what you mean by relevant, like I said before.

[skcin]

Why do you keep putting words in my mouth and in quotes too, I never said "every magazine" Jeesh enough already. This is my last word on the matter.

I'm sorry, you're right. I stand corrected. You said "all the major fashion magazines" not "every magazine." My apologies. :sorry:

[Angel69]

The Supremes are a good example of that. I love The Supremes, but there is little depth in their music as opposed to Joni Mitchell, Dylan, etc.

So, I guess to each their own.

I also love The Supremes. And while they may not be as deep as Mitchell, Dylan or Stevie for that matter, they had class. Something Spears lacks.

[Angel69]

I've heard it many times that she was unhappy about having to sing "Sometimes It's a Bitch," but the stuff she says in that article about the fans not being receptive - I was too young when the song was released, so I don't have any firsthand knowledge - were fans really that upset about it?

Obviously, Stevie was upset about it - but I am curious about the fan reaction when the song was released.

I dont think fans were that upset about it. It may not be her best but she sings the **** out of it!!!!

[michelej1]

Obviously, Stevie was upset about it - but I am curious about the fan reaction when the song was released.

I don't think it can be described in monolithic terms. While some didn't think it fit (just like "forgotten chimpanzee" doesn't exactly fit), some fans thought it was hot and liked the fact that it was out-of-character for her. Sometimes a difference like that translates into "fresh" for some. Well, I guess I didn't have access to much fan feedback at that time, but I just say that judging from reviews I saw when it came out. Michele

[strandinthewind]

I . . . they had class. Something Spears lacks.

I think it was the times that constrained them. Moreover, Berry Gordy carefully crafted their image and dressed them up in beautiful clothing to make them appeal to the white market as classy as opposed to Britany Spears half naked, which was done to appeal to the current market.

But, if you look into their history, esp. Ms. Ross, it was hardly what one would term as classy :shrug: The difference is there was not internet, 24 news, or stalking paparazzi then. Imagine if the press continuously showed lots of different footage of Florence Ballard fat, drunk, and passed out in public. She'd look alot like Spears :shrug:

In the end, no one is perfect and if any of us were 16, sitting on $80 million, and hounded by the press, we'd be portrayed in that light as well. I mean imagine if someone followed you around 24/7 in college, edited that footage in the most unfavorable light, and then made it so everyone in the world could see it over and over again for months on end. Anyone other than a nun would look likely just as trashy as Spears :shrug: Just something to think about. I mean clearly Spears went crazier than hog on a hot day, but haven't we all done that to some degree in private?

Thus, I cut her some slack.

Note - I am no huge fan of her's.

[michelej1]

I think that's where the real problem lies: record companies have become too much an influence on what the market receives, and they are far too involved in artists works. They are not only dumbing down what's recorded, but also what reaches us. This was a huge problem in the 50s and early 60s too, so maybe it'll be cyclical, and we'll get a fresh burst of change again.



But with the internet and digital music --which have rendered singles almost meaningless-- don't the record companies have less power now than they ever have in the whole history of rock? They really can't control what the market receives like they used to. I don't think they're the reason why talent doesn't rise to the top.

Michele

[strandinthewind]

. . . It may not be her best but she sings the **** out of it!!!!

She sure does!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I actually do not mind the song. I also think the words about triumph and pitfalls were very indicative of her life at that point. I just think the chorus (bitch -- breeze) was silly.

[michelej1]

I also love The Supremes. And while they may not be as deep as Mitchell, Dylan or Stevie for that matter, they had class. Something Spears lacks.

What I would say that someone like Diana Ross has that Britney doesn't is not "class" per se, but presence. You know, there are some people that command attention because they have an aura about them. The diva thing . . . this is what Diana Ross had that Florence Ballard did not. There's an air of command and glamour. And I think that is something that separates the stars of yesteryear from today's. You know, you love someone who you think is down-to-earth and you would kill to have lunch with, but you don't have awe and reverence for them (unless you're 8 years old and the star is Miley Cyrus). Those older stars had this kind of elegance and style that elevated them, regardless of talent.

I remember Cary Grant, old Archie, saying that he "became" who he was or who the world thought him to be. It was a facade that he himself eventually believed and that's what the old stars did, while the contemporary ones are just themselves. It's raw and its ordinary and it doesn't impress those of us old enough to remember the celebrities who created images of mystery and inaccessibility.

Why is Celine Dion a joke? It's not because she can't sing and it's not because she doesn't sell. To me it's because she has no style. She thinks she's some kind of french comedienne rather than a "star.' Instead of exhibiting an austere grace, she's screwing her face up and making Jerry Lewis level jokes. She has no "magic." I think many of today's celebrities have the popularity, without the magic. But, of course, TMZ-type coverage can steal the magical luster from anyone. I mean, if Harvey Levin was around back in the day, we might have found that Greta Garbo didn't wear panties either. Would she still have become a legend?

Michele

[RoseGarden]

^^^Hey Michelle!
I understand what you mean that some people eminate an attraction about them that allready commands attention even before they open their mouth.

I kind of get what your saying about Celine. Had you ever seen her movie based on her up growing. Her entire life has been recorded as if she is NOT attractive. Though she is not my favorite singer and I haven't bought her dvds , I think there are so many talented singers out there that just don't cut the publics eye as sexy.

(why else did Milli Vannilli pull their false encounter?)

Hmmm, maybe I 'll just make a new thread to see what peoples view are. Which is more important--the quality of the voice or the attractive package with a so so voice? It just kind of hurt me to bash Celione for not being so attractive. My entire life i've been called ugly ----but well never mind:shrug:

[David]

I've heard it many times that she was unhappy about having to sing "Sometimes It's a Bitch," but the stuff she says in that article about the fans not being receptive - I was too young when the song was released, so I don't have any firsthand knowledge - were fans really that upset about it?

Obviously, Stevie was upset about it - but I am curious about the fan reaction when the song was released.My reaction was "Egad." And yet ... and yet ... damned if the damned thing wasn't kinda catchy!

You found yourself -- in spite of yourself -- humming parts of that stupid song throughout your day.

The nadir of that batch of new songs, as everyone knows, was the one Poison wrote for her. My stars, was that awful.

[RoseGarden]

This is a question referring to the article that was posted, but NOT about the abortions, because I have no business commenting on what people choose to do with the contents of uteruses not my own.

I've heard it many times that she was unhappy about having to sing "Sometimes It's a Bitch," but the stuff she says in that article about the fans not being receptive - I was too young when the song was released, so I don't have any firsthand knowledge - were fans really that upset about it?

Obviously, Stevie was upset about it - but I am curious about the fan reaction when the song was released.

Hi Zombie,
I am old enough to remember when the song came out. As a fan I wasn't shocked or offended at all. By the time the song Sometimes its a Bitch came out....I had listened to AC/DC and plenty of other foul worded lyrics that BITCH didn't phase me at all:shrug: just one fans opinion

[michelej1]

I kind of get what your saying about Celine. Had you ever seen her movie based on her up growing. Her entire life has been recorded as if she is NOT attractive. Though she is not my favorite singer and I haven't bought her dvds , I think there are so many talented singers out there that just don't cut the publics eye as sexy.



I don't think Celine, you know, just sitting there idly is unattractive at all. And I don't think "not attractive" is the exact word for her even when she's in motion. I think she's comical more than anything else. She has facial habits -- she stretches her mouth in such a way -- I think she is going for Lucille Ball. She thinks she is funny, but she really doesn't have timing or other comic skills, so I think that is why she is often a laughing stock.

Actually, when you can pull comedy off, you can be a sexy, star type, even when you're unattractive (think Mae West), because deftness has its own appeal. But Celine lacks a certain style, a certain smoothness. So, I think she's personable, but I think that is also why she is not one of those enigmatic star types, despite her talent and mega-success.

Then, there are people who are physically beautiful, but they don't have the personality, so the minute they open their mouths, any illusion you had about them disappears. I think that is what I feel about Britney more than anything else. She's attractive. I don't know if she can sing, but I do know I like many of her songs, but you hear an interview with her and it's really hard to buy into her celebrity. There's nothing ethereal there. Michele

[Zombie]

Thanks for the input, folks!

It doesn't faze me, either, though I get that it was out of character for her...it's not one of my favorite songs of hers, but it is catchy, like David said. I can't remember the exact line in that article, but she came off sounding like fans were mad at her or something, so I was curious.

[wolfontherun]

What I would say that someone like Diana Ross has that Britney doesn't is not "class" per se, but presence. You know, there are some people that command attention because they have an aura about them. The diva thing . . . this is what Diana Ross had that Florence Ballard did not. There's an air of command and glamour. And I think that is something that separates the stars of yesteryear from today's. You know, you love someone who you think is down-to-earth and you would kill to have lunch with, but you don't have awe and reverence for them (unless you're 8 years old and the star is Miley Cyrus). Those older stars had this kind of elegance and style that elevated them, regardless of talent.

I remember Cary Grant, old Archie, saying that he "became" who he was or who the world thought him to be. It was a facade that he himself eventually believed and that's what the old stars did, while the contemporary ones are just themselves. It's raw and its ordinary and it doesn't impress those of us old enough to remember the celebrities who created images of mystery and inaccessibility.

Why is Celine Dion a joke? It's not because she can't sing and it's not because she doesn't sell. To me it's because she has no style. She thinks she's some kind of french comedienne rather than a "star.' Instead of exhibiting an austere grace, she's screwing her face up and making Jerry Lewis level jokes. She has no "magic." I think many of today's celebrities have the popularity, without the magic. But, of course, TMZ-type coverage can steal the magical luster from anyone. I mean, if Harvey Levin was around back in the day, we might have found that Greta Garbo didn't wear panties either. Would she still have become a legend?

Michele

I would add that many celebrities court the gossip and paparazzi. Many others do not. If a celebrity wants to they are able to dissapear.

Look at all the ones we never see or hear about unless they are promoting something. Stevie is one of them.

Those pics of her at the airport were a rare exception and the only pics I have ever seen of her when she is living off camera.

[wolfontherun]

^^^Hey Michelle!
I understand what you mean that some people eminate an attraction about them that allready commands attention even before they open their mouth.

I kind of get what your saying about Celine. Had you ever seen her movie based on her up growing. Her entire life has been recorded as if she is NOT attractive. Though she is not my favorite singer and I haven't bought her dvds , I think there are so many talented singers out there that just don't cut the publics eye as sexy.

(why else did Milli Vannilli pull their false encounter?)

Hmmm, maybe I 'll just make a new thread to see what peoples view are. Which is more important--the quality of the voice or the attractive package with a so so voice? It just kind of hurt me to bash Celione for not being so attractive. My entire life i've been called ugly ----but well never mind:shrug:

There are no "ugly people" only ugly minds. I have always thought that Celine did have an appeal that is all her own. I also think that she does command the stage when she sings and she does have a certain style when she is in diva mode. Maybe she is an acquired taste but then so is our Stevie.

[RoseGarden]

I don't think Celine, you know, just sitting there idly is unattractive at all. And I don't think "not attractive" is the exact word for her even when she's in motion. I think she's comical more than anything else. She has facial habits -- she stretches her mouth in such a way -- I think she is going for Lucille Ball. She thinks she is funny, but she really doesn't have timing or other comic skills, so I think that is why she is often a laughing stock.

Actually, when you can pull comedy off, you can be a sexy, star type, even when you're unattractive (think Mae West), because deftness has its own appeal. But Celine lacks a certain style, a certain smoothness. So, I think she's personable, but I think that is also why she is not one of those enigmatic star types, despite her talent and mega-success.

Then, there are people who are physically beautiful, but they don't have the personality, so the minute they open their mouths, any illusion you had about them disappears. I think that is what I feel about Britney more than anything else. She's attractive. I don't know if she can sing, but I do know I like many of her songs, but you hear an interview with her and it's really hard to buy into her celebrity. There's nothing ethereal there. Michele

ahh, so we agree that Celione is not unattractive! And there are artist that are physically attractive but not necessarily talented!! Agree totally.

Probably the only thing we will agree on is Stevie has it all! The attraction, aura, excellent singing and toppers she writes her songs!!! :nod: Not many women like this at all!!! I sure wish Janis Joplin had lived a long life to see where "unatracctive" but talented singers ranked......


OK for those this thread interupted, carry on.

[wolfontherun]

I don't think Celine, you know, just sitting there idly is unattractive at all. And I don't think "not attractive" is the exact word for her even when she's in motion. I think she's comical more than anything else. She has facial habits -- she stretches her mouth in such a way -- I think she is going for Lucille Ball. She thinks she is funny, but she really doesn't have timing or other comic skills, so I think that is why she is often a laughing stock.

Actually, when you can pull comedy off, you can be a sexy, star type, even when you're unattractive (think Mae West), because deftness has its own appeal. But Celine lacks a certain style, a certain smoothness. So, I think she's personable, but I think that is also why she is not one of those enigmatic star types, despite her talent and mega-success.

Then, there are people who are physically beautiful, but they don't have the personality, so the minute they open their mouths, any illusion you had about them disappears. I think that is what I feel about Britney more than anything else. She's attractive. I don't know if she can sing, but I do know I like many of her songs, but you hear an interview with her and it's really hard to buy into her celebrity. There's nothing ethereal there. Michele


Awkward can be very appealing. I have found that certain people who are really tring but falling short can be attractive in a goofy kinda of way. I agree she has some real quirky ticks but that is what makes her unique.

When I see Brit trying so hard to be sexy I laugh and cringe and just wish she would go away. Madonna could pull that off 20 years ago because she did it with style and a sense of irony. Today she is getting real close to parody.

[michelej1]

I would add that many celebrities court the gossip and paparazzi. Many others do not. If a celebrity wants to they are able to dissapear.

Look at all the ones we never see or hear about unless they are promoting something. Stevie is one of them.



But if Stevie wanted to court the press, how successful would she be at this point? I think her courting overtures would go largely unrequited. The press goes after those people who will sell papers. Take Cher for instance, I don't think she stopped making headlines because she has taken a low profile or changed her behavior. I think she stopped making headlines because she grew older and is no longer interesting to those people who buy the rags. So, the tabloid media largely lost interest in her.

However, I will say that if Stevie was caught out without underwear, that would definitely make a bigger splash than it does when the young women engage in such antics.



Michele

[RoseGarden]

There are no "ugly people" only ugly minds. I have always thought that Celine did have an appeal that is all her own. I also think that she does command the stage when she sings and she does have a certain style when she is in diva mode. Maybe she is an acquired taste but then so is our Stevie.

THANK YOU WOLFontheRUN!:xoxo:

[michelej1]

Awkward can be very appealing. I have found that certain people who are really tring but falling short can be attractive in a goofy kinda of way.

I agree to a certain extent. I think when someone does one thing well that attracts you, then when they clumsily do something else, it's endearing. But that's because you love them anyway for what they're good at. If someone is not particularly good, smooth or adept at any one thing, I don't know how sexy their awkwardness can be.

As for singers, I'll tell you . . .there's this thing that they have or lack and it's almost intangible. I love Sarah McLachlan's music, but I never want to look at her performing. She's the most uninteresting thing I've ever seen -- but I have all of her records. Celine -- I'm not that into her music, but I did like her Vegas show, for the props, the staging and the spectacle of it all, more than for her. She did do a song that I liked a lot, Seduces Me. Sexy, exciting song, but . . . I think there are singers and then there are performers and sometimes the twain do not meet. But Celine does think like an entertainer. She always wants to do something on a grand scale and that's interesting in itself. When you talk about live performances, you just have to be careful that the entertainment, the dancing and costumes, don't upstage your talent. I think it does with Britney.

Of course, once you fall in love, anything works for you. Take "The Dance". After Don't Stop all those people do is walk off the stage. They just leave their instruments and walk off. I ate that right up. Nothing inherently exciting about it, but it was them and it thrilled me. It's the certain aura they possess. It always seems to come back to that. Michele

Michele

[wolfontherun]

I agree to a certain extent. I think when someone does one thing well that attracts you, then when they clumsily do something else, it's endearing. But that's because you love them anyway for what they're good at. If someone is not particularly good, smooth or adept at any one thing, I don't know how sexy their awkwardness can be.

As for singers, I'll tell you . . .there's this thing that they have or lack and it's almost intangible. I love Sarah McLachlan's music, but I never want to look at her performing. She's the most uninteresting thing I've ever seen -- but I have all of her records. Celine -- I'm not that into her music, but I did like her Vegas show, for the props, the staging and the spectacle of it all, more than for her. She did do a song that I liked a lot, Seduces Me. Sexy, exciting song, but . . . I think there are singers and then there are performers and sometimes the twain do not meet. But Celine does think like an entertainer. She always wants to do something on a grand scale and that's interesting in itself. When you talk about live performances, you just have to be careful that the entertainment, the dancing and costumes, don't upstage your talent. I think it does with Britney.

Of course, once you fall in love, anything works for you. Take "The Dance". After Don't Stop all those people do is walk off the stage. They just leave their instruments and walk off. I ate that right up. Nothing inherently exciting about it, but it was them and it thrilled me. It's the certain aura they possess. It always seems to come back to that. Michele

Michele


I have to add Natalie Merchant to your Mclaughlin comment. I adore Merchant almost more than Stevie (almost I said) Her voice soothes and touches me in a way that no one elses does and her lyrics are just so deep and she goes where Stevie never dares go to, politics and human rights and such.

Anyway I have seen her perform live and there is very little stage presence and so I never feel the same need to see her live like I do for Stevie.

[wolfontherun]

THANK YOU WOLFontheRUN!:xoxo:

It was my sincerest pleasure. :-)

[Sanne2]

It's amazing how this subject never fails to create long threads!

[Steviefan49]

It's amazing how this subject never fails to create long threads!

Hey Sanne...

Isn't that the truth?? :p No matter how many boards I've been on, or other Yahoo group's I'm in, this topic seems to go on forever.. :rolleyes:

[StreetAngel86]

You're lucky I already had it scanned and on my pc :)
http://img139.imagevenue.com/loc496/th_41934_st-026_122_496lo.jpg (http://img139.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=41934_st-026_122_496lo.jpg)http://img45.imagevenue.com/loc1068/th_41936_st-028_122_1068lo.jpg (http://img45.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=41936_st-028_122_1068lo.jpg)http://img227.imagevenue.com/loc541/th_41947_st-029_122_541lo.jpg (http://img227.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=41947_st-029_122_541lo.jpg)

HOLEY MOLEY
those pics of her are terrible

she was soooooooo depressed :distress:


she didn't like how her house was 'portrayed' ???
what the hell
she decorated it :laugh:
how can it be photographed as anything but how it looks, which is how she has it?

[wolfontherun]

HOLEY MOLEY
those pics of her are terrible

she was soooooooo depressed :distress:


she didn't like how her house was 'portrayed' ???
what the hell
she decorated it :laugh:
how can it be photographed as anything but how it looks, which is how she has it?


They are not the best but I have seen worse. Interesting to see her as a brunette. And are those all her wigs on the table?

[MoonWaterPoet]

I couldn't agree more, Yesterday's Gone ~...



Christine points out:
Why not think about times to come,
And not about the things that you've done

Yesterday's gone. Yesterday's gone.