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Sorceress

10-08-2008, 08:12 PM

It's obvious that the "That one" remark had racial overtones. I mean, the McCain campaign has been making thinly veiled references, but basically their message is "Do you want that black Muslim extremist as President?"

And did anyone notice how patronizing McCain was to the young black man who asked about Fannie and Freddie? "You've probably never heard of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before." :rolleyes:

Yes--it was totally patronizing. Of COURSE the guy had heard of Fannie and Freddie--he asked the question!

strandinthewind

10-08-2008, 08:42 PM

Yes--it was totally patronizing. Of COURSE the guy had heard of Fannie and Freddie--he asked the question!

When I saw that I thought two things, either McCain actually being patronizig or McCain is trying to be warm and cute and show he can connect with the youth of today. If it was the latter, he failed miserably.

ajmccarrell

10-08-2008, 09:07 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081009/ap_on_el_ge/voter_fraud

Obama has long been associated with Acorn and in fact, Acorn was supposed to receive pork from the bailout bill. They are trying to steal Missouri for Obama.

By BILL DRAPER, Associated Press Writer
19 minutes ago

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - Officials in Missouri, a hard-fought jewel in the presidential race, are sifting through possibly hundreds of questionable or duplicate voter-registration forms submitted by an advocacy group that has been accused of election fraud in other states.

Charlene Davis, co-director of the election board in Jackson County, where Kansas City is, said the fraudulent registration forms came from the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN. She said they were bogging down work Wednesday, the final day Missourians could register to vote.

"I don't even know the entire scope of it because registrations are coming in so heavy," Davis said. "We have identified about 100 duplicates, and probably 280 addresses that don't exist, people who have driver's license numbers that won't verify or Social Security numbers that won't verify. Some have no address at all."

The nonpartisan group works to recruit low-income voters, who tend to lean Democratic. Most polls show Republican presidential candidate John McCain with an edge in bellwether Missouri, but Democrat Barack Obama continues to put up a strong fight.

Jess Ordower, Midwest director of ACORN, said his group hasn't done any registrations in Kansas City since late August. He said he was told three weeks ago by election officials that there were only about 135 questionable cards — 85 of them duplicates.

"They keep telling different people different things," he said. "They gave us a list of 130, then told someone else it was 1,000."

FBI spokeswoman Bridget Patton said the agency has been in contact with elections officials about potential voter fraud and plans to investigate.

"It's a matter we take very seriously," Patton said. "It is against the law to register someone to vote who does not fall within the parameters to vote, or to put someone on there falsely."

On Tuesday, authorities in Nevada seized records from ACORN after finding fraudulent registration forms that included the starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys.

In April, eight ACORN workers in St. Louis city and county pleaded guilty to federal election fraud for submitting false registration cards for the 2006 election. U.S. Attorney Catherine Hanaway said they submitted cards with false addresses and names, and forged signatures.

Ordower said Wednesday that ACORN registered about 53,500 people in Missouri this year. He believes his group is being targeted because some politicians don't want that many low-income people having a voice.

"It's par for the course," he said. "When you're doing more registrations than anyone else in the country, some don't want low-income people being empowered to vote. There are pretty targeted attacks on us, but we're proud to be out there doing the patriotic thing getting people registered to vote."

Republicans are among ACORN's loudest critics. At a campaign stop in Bethlehem, Pa., supporters of John McCain interrupted his remarks Wednesday by shouting, "No more ACORN."

Debbie Mesloh, spokeswoman for the Obama campaign in Missouri, said in an e-mailed statement that the campaign supported any investigation of possible fraud.

According to its national Web site, the group has registered 1.3 million people nationwide for the Nov. 4 election. It also has encountered complaints of fraud stemming from registration efforts in Wisconsin, New Mexico, Nevada and battleground states like Michigan, Ohio and North Carolina, where new voter registrations have favored Democrats nearly 4 to 1 since the beginning of this year.

Missouri offers 11 electoral votes; the presidential candidates need at least 270 to win the election.

LukeA

10-08-2008, 11:37 PM

Obama Group Defrauding Missouri

Hey, so you're not going to address your plagiarism?

nickay

10-09-2008, 12:43 AM

I saw this clip on You-Tube and i thought is was funny, so I thought i would share it with ya'll. It is similar to another thread that was posted ,but I really was unsure where to place it . So I hope its on the right thread . :shrug: I hope ya'll see the humor in it as I did . :laugh:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_TiQCJXpbKg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_TiQCJXpbKg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I also so this one

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/sa20q2s2BRs&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sa20q2s2BRs&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I think they need to hire some else to write there speeches:D

GypsySorcerer

10-09-2008, 07:29 AM

As long as we're reading minds, it was obvious that when Barack Obama said "we've got to solve this problem short term", he was using the word "short" as a despicable slur against amputees. And when he said "You've got cross-border attacks against U.S. troops". the "cross" was meant as a meanspirited jab at crossdressers and all GLBT Americans. I mean, it was obvious.

:rolleyes: x infinity.

I think in the McCain case, it is obvious. They're not going to get elected based on their platform, so what's left is to play to people's fears and prejudices. This has been the Republican playbook for years. :shrug: When Palin says Obama pals around with terrorists it's clear what they're doing.

TrueFaith77

10-09-2008, 07:50 AM

I mean, the McCain campaign has been making thinly veiled references, but basically their message is "Do you want that black Muslim extremist as President?"

That's not how I take it at all. I think they're saying "Do you want an elitist extremist as President?" :shrug:

BombaySapphire3

10-09-2008, 10:56 AM

That's not how I take it at all. I think they're saying "Do you want an elitist extremist as President?" :shrug:

Let's see exactly what is Obama an etremist about? Yeah he is so elite raised by a single mom living from paycheck to paycheck and got where he is by his own efforts just like Bushie! :laugh:You really want to talk extremist ..how about a far right evangelical cultist who would be one 70 something 's with a bad health history heartbeat away from the Presidency.

GoS

10-09-2008, 11:53 AM

That's not how I take it at all. I think they're saying "Do you want an elitist extremist as President?" :shrug:

I don't get it, where is this elitist claim comming from? McCain is the one with who knows how many houses (obviously not him:lol:) that wants tax cuts for the rich. Can anyone think of any examples of Obama being "elitist," because I cannot.

GoS

10-09-2008, 12:06 PM

Today I got in a very heated... discussion.... with one of my friends. We were talking about how whether or nor raising taxes on the upper-class won't bring about the end of the world via price hikes. He said that the people who would be getting tax increases are the business owners and that they would have to raise prices, making it harder on everyone else. He didn't seem to recognize that Obama's tax plans would just return things to the way they were in the Clinton administration, when things were actually working. What should I say to talk some sense into him?

BombaySapphire3

10-09-2008, 12:35 PM

I don't get it, where is this elitist claim comming from? McCain is the one with who knows how many houses (obviously not him:lol:) that wants tax cuts for the rich. Can anyone think of any examples of Obama being "elitist," because I cannot.

The reference is most likely referring to some kind of intellectual elitism..which I suppose is indicating that we all need to dumb down and vote McCain/Palin ..wait a minute isn't that the kind of non thinking that got America the wonderful Bush adminisration!:blob1:

DavidMn

10-09-2008, 01:56 PM

Not to digress, but I saw something today that REALLY upset me. I was walking by my house and our neighbors 2 houses down, who are staunch republicans, had their signs on their property spray-painted over by some effin dufus. Now, let me make it clear, I DO NOT agree with 95% of what my neighbors believe, but they, along with me, have a right to express their views as they see fit. Believe me if I wouldve seen whoever had done this I'dve called the cops immideately. Last time I checked, this is the United States Of America.:mad:

GoS

10-09-2008, 02:21 PM

GypsySorcerer

10-09-2008, 03:16 PM

The reference is most likely referring to some kind of intellectual elitism..which I suppose is indicating that we all need to dumb down and vote McCain/Palin ..wait a minute isn't that the kind of non thinking that got America the wonderful Bush adminisration!:blob1:

Don't forget all the references to Michelle Obama being an elitist. :rolleyes:

On a side note, I had to attend a meeting yesterday in a rural area. These two guys were sitting next to me discussing the debate. Neither liked McCain, but they just couldn't bring themselves to vote for "Hussein." One said, "I'm not so much voting for McCain as I am voting against Hussein." He then went on to say Palin was the only good one of the lot. :eek: :distress:

GoS

10-09-2008, 03:29 PM

Don't forget all the references to Michelle Obama being an elitist. :rolleyes:

On a side note, I had to attend a meeting yesterday in a rural area. These two guys were sitting next to me discussing the debate. Neither liked McCain, but they just couldn't bring themselves to vote for "Hussein." One said, "I'm not so much voting for McCain as I am voting against Hussein." He then went on to say Palin was the only good one of the lot. :eek: :distress:

Thanks, I just learned a new meaning for the word good!

vermicious knid

10-09-2008, 04:08 PM

GoS

10-09-2008, 04:16 PM

Richard B

10-09-2008, 04:17 PM

He then went on to say Palin was the only good one of the lot.

You know, I get that. Palin is certainly refreshing against the bull**** of these "seasoned" presidential candidates, that are spewing out empty promises and flapping their lips.

GoS

10-09-2008, 04:23 PM

You know, I get that. Palin is certainly refreshing against the bull**** of these "seasoned" presidential candidates, that are spewing out empty promises and flapping their lips.

Yeah, with all of her "expertise," new lines, and lack of hypocrisy, she is the one that I'd want for VP. ;)

Richard B

10-09-2008, 04:29 PM

Yeah, with all of her "expertise," new lines, and lack of hypocrisy, she is the one that I'd want for VP. ;)

LOL. Who knows anymore, really. I have a friend (Dem) voting for the McCain/Palin ticket and he is hoping McCain kicks it during his administration. This is also the same friend who is frightened that Obama would be a serious target for assassination and having Biden be the President scares him even more. OK, so my friend is hysterical.

Sorceress

10-09-2008, 07:16 PM

The way I see it, they are purposely trying to avoid anything that could be taken as racially-based attacks. They have chosen to make an issue of his association with a white American, and ignored how Obama got cozy with the violent opposition leader in Kenya, Raila Odinga. After Odinga lost an election recently, his supporters began a campaign of ethnic cleansing, brutally murdering and raping countless people. Human Rights Watch says that violence was fomented from the top.

If John McCain and Sarah Palin really wanted to paint Obama as a Muslim, they might point out this man Obama was supporting for President of Kenya had gathered the support of Muslim leaders by agreeing to institute Sharia law. And if they were serious about painting him as a terrorist, they might explain how Odinga planned to make suspects of terrorism safe from extradition.

http://i33.tinypic.com/9hqkw4.jpg

What's your source on this?

From factcheck.org:

"Guilt By Association

A frequent Corsi tactic is to point to some link between Obama and various unsavory persons and to imply that Obama somehow shares in their unsavoriness. He devotes an entire chapter to violent uprisings in Kenya following a disputed presidential election in 2007. The link to Obama? During a visit to Kenya in 2006, Obama and his wife, Michelle, arranged to take an AIDS test to publicly demonstrate the test's safety. While there, Obama spoke to the assembled crowd. Raila Odinga, one of the two candidates running for president, was on the stage when Obama spoke. Corsi concludes that the event constituted an endorsement of Odinga. He goes on to attribute all the violence in Kenya to an elaborate Odinga plot.

Corsi, however, offers no evidence that Obama actually did endorse Odinga. In fact, MSNBC reported that during that same trip, Obama also met with Mwai Kibaki, who was Odinga's opponent in that election, as well as with opposition leader Uhuru Kenyatta. And Human Rights Watch reported that both Odinga and Kibaki (or their supporters, anyway) had a hand in the violence that followed the election."

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/corsis_dull_hatchet.html

BombaySapphire3

10-09-2008, 08:25 PM

LOL. Who knows anymore, really. I have a friend (Dem) voting for the McCain/Palin ticket and he is hoping McCain kicks it during his administration. This is also the same friend who is frightened that Obama would be a serious target for assassination and having Biden be the President scares him even more. OK, so my friend is hysterical.

Is your friend by any chance abusing controlled substances?

BombaySapphire3

10-09-2008, 08:31 PM

What's your source on this?

From factcheck.org:

"Guilt By Association

A frequent Corsi tactic is to point to some link between Obama and various unsavory persons and to imply that Obama somehow shares in their unsavoriness. He devotes an entire chapter to violent uprisings in Kenya following a disputed presidential election in 2007. The link to Obama? During a visit to Kenya in 2006, Obama and his wife, Michelle, arranged to take an AIDS test to publicly demonstrate the test's safety. While there, Obama spoke to the assembled crowd. Raila Odinga, one of the two candidates running for president, was on the stage when Obama spoke. Corsi concludes that the event constituted an endorsement of Odinga. He goes on to attribute all the violence in Kenya to an elaborate Odinga plot.

Corsi, however, offers no evidence that Obama actually did endorse Odinga. In fact, MSNBC reported that during that same trip, Obama also met with Mwai Kibaki, who was Odinga's opponent in that election, as well as with opposition leader Uhuru Kenyatta. And Human Rights Watch reported that both Odinga and Kibaki (or their supporters, anyway) had a hand in the violence that followed the election."

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/corsis_dull_hatchet.html

The truth is they can come up with nothing on Obama that he himself did personally so they are trying to use the guilt by association tactic..McCain and I'm sure Palin have more potentially sleazy activity that they themselves perpetrated ie. the Keating five and she has been under investigation this year!

Sorceress

10-09-2008, 08:58 PM

The truth is they can come up with nothing on Obama that he himself did personally so they are trying to use the guilt by association tactic..McCain and I'm sure Palin have more potentially sleazy activity that they themselves perpetrated ie. the Keating five and she has been under investigation this year!

Yes. It appears desparate. I think it will backfire. (Please, Americans, don't fall for this nonsense).

BombaySapphire3

10-09-2008, 09:04 PM

Yes. It appears desparate. I think it will backfire. (Please, Americans, don't fall for this nonsense).

So far most don't seem to be. A new poll now has Obama within 2 points of McCain in Indiana !..one of the most reliably Republican states in a Presidential election ..Look for McCain and his attack pooch to sink to new lows in tackiness.

vermicious knid

10-09-2008, 09:37 PM

Corsi, however, offers no evidence that Obama actually did endorse Odinga. In fact, MSNBC reported that during that same trip, Obama also met with Mwai Kibaki, who was Odinga's opponent in that election

Odinga's opponent didn't think that Obama was being so impartial. His spokesperson said "It is very clear that the senator has been used as a puppet to perpetuate opposition politics." link (http://www.newsweek.com/id/45558?tid=relatedcl)

When he goes to a country and critisizes its government before an election, and does it with a prominent member of an opposing tribe "at Obama's elbow here fairly often" (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=149_1199587542), what is that other than support for the opposition? If it is not support, it is something close to it. Odinga even says that they are close and talk often. I am not saying there was nothing bad about the government of Kenya during the time that Obama went there. But it was poor judgement to befriend a coldblooded monster like Raila Odinga, as it was poor judgement to befriend Tony Rezko and William Ayers.

And "poor judgement" is what John McCain was concluded to have displayed in that Keating savings and loan ordeal. That is what the Senate Ethics Committee said after clearing him of violating any rules. So if you think that scandal is worth investigating, then the subjects that I bring up are relevant as well.

Richard B

10-09-2008, 09:39 PM

Is your friend by any chance abusing controlled substances?

Aahhhh!!!!!!!! ROFL.
Obviously something has gone terribly wrong in their head.
Poor thing suffered an aneurysm a couple months ago.

BombaySapphire3

10-09-2008, 09:43 PM

Aahhhh!!!!!!!! ROFL.
Obviously something has gone terribly wrong in their head.
Poor thing suffered an aneurysm a couple months ago.

Sorry to hear that..I hope he recovers his senses before election day!

Richard B

10-09-2008, 09:44 PM

Sorry to hear that..I hope he recovers his senses before election day!

I was joking on that.
Course maybe it's just a temporary brain embolism.

Sorceress

10-09-2008, 10:36 PM

Odinga's opponent didn't think that Obama was being so impartial. His spokesperson said "It is very clear that the senator has been used as a puppet to perpetuate opposition politics." link (http://www.newsweek.com/id/45558?tid=relatedcl)

When he goes to a country and critisizes its government before an election, and does it with a prominent member of an opposing tribe "at Obama's elbow here fairly often" (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=149_1199587542), what is that other than support for the opposition? If it is not support, it is something close to it. Odinga even says that they are close and talk often. I am not saying there was nothing bad about the government of Kenya during the time that Obama went there. But it was poor judgement to befriend a coldblooded monster like Raila Odinga, as it was poor judgement to befriend Tony Rezko and William Ayers.

And "poor judgement" is what John McCain was concluded to have displayed in that Keating savings and loan ordeal. That is what the Senate Ethics Committee said after clearing him of violating any rules. So if you think that scandal is worth investigating, then the subjects that I bring up are relevant as well.

I don't think anyone said this subject was irrelevent. It's only fair to discuss reports and opinion from both sides. But it's also then only fair to examine the sources of the information, do some fact-checking, and formulate an opinion from there.

Now, considering that it is widely understood that Kibaki's party stole the 12/07 election, I don't know how his government's official spokesperson could be considered a credible source on this.

strandinthewind

10-10-2008, 07:18 AM

. . . And "poor judgement" is what John McCain was concluded to have displayed in that Keating savings and loan ordeal. That is what the Senate Ethics Committee said after clearing him of violating any rules. So if you think that scandal is worth investigating, then the subjects that I bring up are relevant as well.

Well, no. Look at the facts -

McCain accepted hundreds of thousands from Keating.

McCain's wife and father in law invested over $300,000 with Keating.

McCain and family flew on Keating's private aircraft to all over the country and elsewhere and were entertained many times by Keating, including Keating's luxury compound in the Bahamas.

During this time period, McCain urged stalling investigations of Keating.

You do not have to be a rocket scientist to connect those dots, though the Senate refused to do so (albeit none of the Senate is a rocket scientist to say the least :laugh: ).

Also, and again, the Senate did not investigate the whole affair. It declined to investigate McCain's actions while McCain was in the house. McCain clearly violated the rules there because he was on the hook for the private air travel, which he belatedly paid when he saw he'd been caught.

Granted, in the end, McCain kicked Keating out of his office, but what was Keating doing there in the first place? And, the kicking out then did not automatically redeem McCain for hisprior bad acts with Keating no matter what some idiotic Senate committe says under the hollow guise of "limited jurisdiction."
_____________________________________________________________________________

So, it is not as simple as the Sentate investigated it and found he only exercised poor judgement :shrug:

To assert that is, at best, misleading.

In the end, if McCain were your employee and he did these actions with your competitor, which cost you a bunch of money, would you fire him? I think most, if not all, would.

Note - I am all for leaving this in the past. However, McCain opened the door to peoples' prior associations, so Obama is merely walking through that door now.

Again, which is worse, McCain's "pallin around" with a felon who bilked thousands out of millions and the taxpayers out of billions or Obama's serving on a board with a man, who is not a legitimate person in society, who committed bad acts when Obama was 8 and had nothing to do with them? I submit that while both not the best thing, McCain' guilt is by way more than association. Obama never flew on Ayers' privae aircraft and forget to pay for it. Obama never vacationed at Ayers' luxury compund in the Bahamas that was obtained by theft from investors and the American taxpayer. Obama's family was never invested financially with Ayers. Again, Obama served on a charitible board with Ayers and there is no evidence that Obama had no private social life with Ayers. Yes, that political party was at Ayers' house. However, that is not a private social event a la a barbeque with no agenda. McCain clearly loses here.

strandinthewind

10-10-2008, 07:53 AM

I smell blood in the water.

Judge for yourself:

Palin's budget excuse is unsupported

Plain's office and husband (who essentially guided or opined on Palin's every other move) did everything they could to get this guy fired based on a personal reason.

Plai had a history of using her office to fire people who crossed her on a personal level in that she fired that public librarian based on Palin's "hypothetical" question regarding baning a bok in the public library that went against Palin and her church's religious beliefs.
______________________________________

Would you convict on these facts?

I suggest men have been hung for less.
____________________________________________

October 10, 2008

Palins Repeatedly Pressed Case Against Trooper

By SERGE F. KOVALESKI

ANCHORAGE — The 2007 state fair was days away when Alaska’s public safety commissioner, Walt Monegan, took another call about one of his troopers, Michael Wooten. This time, the director of Gov. Sarah Palin’s Anchorage office was on the line.

As Mr. Monegan recalls it, the aide said the governor had heard that Trooper Wooten was assigned to work the kickoff to the fair in late August. If so, Mr. Monegan should do something about it, because Ms. Palin was also planning to attend and did not want him nearby.

Somewhat bewildered, Mr. Monegan soon determined that Trooper Wooten had indeed volunteered for duty at the fairgrounds — in full costume as “Safety Bear,” the troopers’ child-friendly mascot.

Two years earlier, the trooper and the governor’s sister had been embroiled in a nasty divorce and child-custody battle that had hardened the Palin family against him. To Mr. Monegan and several top aides, the state fair episode was yet another example of a fixation that the governor and her husband, Todd, had with Trooper Wooten and the most granular details of his life.

“I thought to myself, ‘Man, do they have a heavy-duty network and focus on this guy,’ ” Mr. Monegan said. “You’d call that an obsession.”

On July 11, Ms. Palin fired Mr. Monegan, setting off a politically charged scandal that has become vastly more so since Ms. Palin became the Republican vice-presidential nominee.

By now, the outlines of the matter have been widely reported. Mr. Monegan believes he was ousted because he would not bow to pressure to dismiss Trooper Wooten. The Alaska Legislature is investigating the firing and whether the governor abused the powers of her office to pursue a personal vendetta. Its report is due Friday.

Ms. Palin has denied that anyone told Mr. Monegan to dismiss Trooper Wooten, or that the commissioner’s ouster had anything to do with him. But an examination of the case, based on interviews with Mr. Monegan and several top aides, indicates that, to a far greater degree than was previously known, the governor, her husband and her administration pressed the commissioner and his staff to get Trooper Wooten off the force, though without directly ordering it.

In all, the commissioner and his aides were contacted about Trooper Wooten three dozen times over 19 months by the governor, her husband and seven administration officials, interviews and documents show.

“To all of us, it was a campaign to get rid of him as a trooper and, at the very least, to smear the guy and give him a desk job somewhere,” said Kim Peterson, Mr. Monegan’s special assistant, who like several other aides spoke publicly about the matter for the first time.

Ms. Peterson, a 31-year veteran of state government who retired 10 days before Mr. Monegan’s firing, said she received about a dozen calls herself. “It was very clear that someone from the governor’s office wanted him watched,” she said.

Nor did that interest end with Mr. Monegan, the examination shows. His successor, Chuck Kopp, recalled that in an exploratory phone call and then a job interview, Ms. Palin’s aides mentioned the governor’s concerns about Trooper Wooten. None of the 280 other troopers were discussed, Mr. Kopp said.

Personnel Politics

Immediately after Mr. Monegan’s firing, Ms. Palin said her intent was to change the department’s direction. (She declined to be interviewed for this article.) She has since offered a variety of explanations for his ouster, most recently accusing him of insubordination and opposing her fiscal reforms.

As evidence, she has contended, among other things, that Mr. Monegan arranged two unauthorized lobbying trips to Washington. But according to interviews and records obtained by The New York Times, the governor’s office authorized both trips.

As for Trooper Wooten, Ms. Palin has said she and others were simply lodging legitimate complaints to the appropriate authorities about a trooper with a disciplinary record who was a danger to her family and to the public. In one instance, she said he made a death threat against her father in 2005, an accusation that the trooper has denied.

Ms. Palin initially said she welcomed an investigation into Mr. Monegan’s ouster. But she has since declined to cooperate with the bipartisan inquiry, which Senator John McCain’s presidential campaign says has been “hijacked” by Democratic lawmakers. Ms. Palin has pledged to cooperate with a separate inquiry, by the state’s Personnel Board.

Beyond the potential political consequences, the Legislature’s inquiry, depending on its outcome, could lead lawmakers to censure Ms. Palin or pass legislation making it more difficult for a governor to remove a commissioner, legislative leaders said.

Watching the Trooper

The Palin family’s dispute with Trooper Wooten surfaced long before Ms. Palin became governor.

On April 11, 2005, the day Ms. Palin’s sister, Molly McCann, filed for divorce, her father, Chuck Heath, informed the state police that a domestic-violence restraining order had been served on his son-in-law. Mr. Heath later told the state police that, although Trooper Wooten had not physically harmed Ms. McCann, he had intimidated her. Ms. McCann told the authorities that Trooper Wooten said to her that he would shoot Mr. Heath if he hired her a divorce lawyer and would “take down” Ms. Palin if she got involved.

The family also reported that Trooper Wooten, who was assigned to the wildlife investigations unit, shot a cow, or female, moose without a permit, used a Taser on his 10-year-old stepson and drank a beer at a friend’s barbecue before taking a second one for the drive home in his patrol car.

In March 2006, after an internal inquiry, Trooper Wooten received a 10-day suspension, which was eventually halved. The suspension letter mentions nothing about threats. At the time, Trooper Wooten and Ms. McCann had been divorced for about two months. But their relationship remained tumultuous, primarily over child custody disputes, said Ms. McCann’s divorce lawyer, Roberta Erwin.

Ms. McCann “wanted to know what relief was available to her” without spending the money to return to court, the lawyer said, adding, “As a close family, the Palins did their best to help her by reaching out further to the trooper hierarchy, with Todd taking the lead.”

On Jan. 4, 2007, a month into the Palin administration and his tenure as public safety commissioner, Mr. Monegan went to the governor’s Anchorage office to talk with Todd Palin, who had requested the meeting. Mr. Palin was seated at a conference table with three stacks of personnel files. That, Mr. Monegan recalled, was the first time he heard the name Mike Wooten.

“He conveyed to me,” Mr. Monegan said, “that he and Sarah did not think the investigation into Wooten had been done well enough and that they were not happy with the punishment. Todd was clearly frustrated.”

Mr. Palin noted Trooper Wooten’s divorce case but dwelt on the moose kill, even showing photographs of the dead animal, Mr. Monegan recalled. The commissioner said he would have his staff evaluate the evidence.

A few days later, Mr. Monegan informed Mr. Palin that the issues raised at the meeting had been addressed in the suspension. The case was closed.

Mr. Palin sounded vexed and said repeatedly Trooper Wooten was getting away with a crime, Mr. Monegan said. “I hung up wondering how long I could keep my job if I tick off my boss’s husband.”

Several evenings later, Mr. Monegan’s cellphone rang. “Walt, it’s Sarah,” the governor said before echoing much of what her husband had said. Trooper Wooten, he recalls being told, was “not the kind of person we should want as a trooper.” He told the governor, too, that there was no new evidence to pursue.

Soon after that, Mr. Palin and several aides began pressing the public safety agency to investigate another matter: whether Trooper Wooten was fraudulently collecting workers’ compensation for a back injury he said he had suffered while helping carry a body bag.

Mr. Palin’s evidence: He told Ms. Peterson, the commissioner’s assistant, that he had seen the trooper riding a snowmobile while on medical leave and that he had photographs to prove it.

When Mr. Palin called back two weeks later, Ms. Peterson said she had met with the trooper but was not authorized to discuss the conversation because it was an official state personnel matter. The issue was eventually resolved in Trooper Wooten’s favor, after his chiropractor sent a letter saying he had approved of the trooper’s riding a snowmobile, as long as he was careful.

Mr. Palin declined to be interviewed. But in a sworn affidavit this week for the legislative investigation, he wrote that he had hundreds of communications about the trooper “with my family, with friends, with colleagues and with just about everyone I could, including government officials.” He added, “In fact, I talked about Wooten so much over the years that my wife told me to stop talking about it with her.”

As for what he had told his wife, Mr. Palin said he often raised his concerns about “the unfairness of his remaining on the state troopers when he was obviously so unfit for the job.”

Of the dozen calls Ms. Peterson received about Trooper Wooten, she said, at least half were from Dianne Kiesel, a deputy director at the Department of Administration. The last discussion with Ms. Kiesel came after Ms. Peterson informed her that the trooper had been cleared to work full time.

“Since there was now no business reason to separate Wooten, she wanted to know what else we could do with him,” Ms. Peterson said, adding, “I could tell she was under pressure to come up with something.”

Ms. Kiesel enumerated various possibilities, like moving him to the cold-case unit or a desk job doing background checks.

Ms. Peterson, who had worked in human resources management for most of her government career, said she pointed out that those options would violate the public safety union’s contract.

At one meeting, Ms. Peterson recalled, the commissioner of administration, Annette Kreitzer, said “to keep an eye on him and that he gets no special privileges.”

In an interview, Ms. Kreitzer said she was simply calling for routine monitoring of an employee who had a disciplinary history or had not been evaluated in a while. Six other administration aides who initiated contacts with public safety officials about Trooper Wooten did not return calls or declined to comment.

As for Trooper Wooten’s planned appearance as Safety Bear, Mr. Monegan said he decided to pull him back.

Unexpected Firing

In July, Ms. Palin’s acting chief of staff called Mr. Monegan to another meeting in that same room in the governor’s Anchorage office. The aide, Michael A. Nizich, said the governor wanted him to head the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board, part of the public safety department. Put another way, he was no longer commissioner.

Saying the firing had come “out of the blue,” Mr. Monegan asked how he had upset the governor. Ms. Palin, the aide said, wanted to take the agency in a new direction.

“Was it Wooten?” Mr. Monegan recalled asking.

“A new direction,” was the reply.

The Legislature’s investigation began after a local blogger, who had been a political rival of Ms. Palin, linked Mr. Monegan’s firing to, among other reasons, his refusal to dismiss Trooper Wooten. Initially the governor said through a spokeswoman that the dismissal had nothing to do with a “personality conflict.” Since then, her explanations have evolved, from saying that he was lagging on filling trooper vacancies and tackling alcohol-abuse problems in rural Alaska to showing an “intolerable pattern of insubordination” and a “rogue mentality” by resisting her authority and spending reforms, sometimes publicly.

Mr. Monegan’s successor, Mr. Kopp, said that when the trooper came up in his pre-employment conversations with Palin aides, “it was raised within the context of one of the things that I needed to be aware of, but there was no direction to take any job action.”

During his first week on the job, Mr. Kopp received a call from Mr. Nizich. Trooper Wooten, in uniform, had shown up at the governor’s picnic, which is open to the public. “Is there anything you can do?” Mr. Nizich asked, explaining that the Palins were concerned about his presence.

The trooper was told to leave the area.

About a week later, Mr. Kopp resigned amid scrutiny of a 2005 sexual harassment complaint.

Mr. Wooten, who declined to be interviewed for this article, remains on the force as a patrol trooper.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/10/us/10trooper.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

strandinthewind

10-10-2008, 08:00 AM

I was thinking last night while on a plane - McCain an Palin keep saying Obama has not fully explained his assocation with Ayers. Yet:

1. The complete timeline of thier association is known.

2. Obama has denounced Ayers' acts 40 years ago.

3. Obama has explained that Ayers was his neighbor, Ayers' hosted a political party for Obama, and they served on a charitible board together.

Other than that, there is nothing else to say. There are no more facts that anyone has revealed. This issue was vetted in the Dem. primary and clearly the Clintons would have left no stone unturned.

So, what is McCain really doing when he says Obama has yet to explain to the Amercian people his association with Ayers. Obama has explained it and the facts are what they are :shrug: So, to me, the only conclusion is that McCain really is not asking for an explanation. What he is trying to do is say that Obama is a terrorist because he associated with Ayers in the limited capacity already revealed, which hardly is any significant personal level.

GoS

10-10-2008, 08:14 AM

BombaySapphire3

10-10-2008, 12:00 PM

GoS

10-10-2008, 12:04 PM

The personal attacks against Obama have not worked thus far ..McCain and his horrible VP choice are slipping a bit more each day and Bush is now the most unpopular President in the history of polling as well he should be.Just think it was only a few short years ago that the Republicans thought the Democrats would be the minority party.Bush's hnbris and stupidity (a preposterous combination)have brought them to their knees..I have been waiting a long time for this.

The most deadly thing for McCain's candidacy, a picture of him beside Bush. Democratic voter registration has shot through the roof, Obama is getting almost unanimous support from an age group that has never been in play for any candidate in recent history, and McCain's campaign grows more desperate and less appealing by the minute. How could things go better for Obama?

BombaySapphire3

10-10-2008, 09:00 PM

gldstwmn

10-10-2008, 10:53 PM

I'm not sure how we're supposed to discuss the fall of the American Empire all in one thread. Just sayin'. :shrug: Isn't there a hide thread funciton on this board for the whiners?

BombaySapphire3

10-10-2008, 11:20 PM

I'm not sure how we're supposed to discuss the fall of the American Empire all in one thread. Just sayin'. :shrug: Isn't there a hide thread funciton on this board for the whiners?
bah ..never mind all that ! we have to have plenty of room for all the threads with those cute little doggies in them !:]

GoS

10-11-2008, 09:35 AM

So I was reading some cnn news headlines and Palin says that Obama is putting ambition above country? This coming from the person who was put in national politics by a campaign stunt? If this was from almost anybody else, I might not have said anything. This is beyond the pot calling the kettle black.

strandinthewind

10-11-2008, 04:22 PM

Well well well it looks like Palin was found to have abused her power in Alaska and violated a state ethics law to get her ex brother in law canned..now maybe she should stop attacking Obama over silly things before people start focusing on this scanadalous b*tch's activities more..It feels soooo good to know that she'll be going back to Alaska soon.:laugh:

I know - and this from the woman who says she is above the usual political fraud, etc. Here sole platform is that of a reformer. Yet, she:

1. Takes an outrageous $$$ per diem to live at home instead of the Gov. Mansion one hour away.

2. Makes the state pay for her kids to come with her on official trips.

3. Asks about banning books herchurch does not like and then fires the public official who tells her there will be o book banning.

4. is found guilty of abusing her office to fire a union employee who had the nerve to divorce a member of her family.

Sounds like the same old political cr*p to me. Lipstick on a pig indeed :shrug:

strandinthewind

10-11-2008, 04:34 PM

Also, I thought about this while traveling today. What if instead of giving banks and insurance companies money to shore up their crisis, which was, by all accounts, caused by bad loans -- the govt. spent the trillion or so dollars instead by giving each American $150,000 which they had to use to buy down their debt (make money accessible only to financial institutions via some computer program) -- if you have no debt, you get the whole $250,000. Wouldn't that solve the bad loan crisis in 99.9% of the cases AND restore the value of the loans as assets on the balance sheet :shrug: This would cost way less than the trillion dollars currently available for WallStreet. Note, the govt., could also make the banks reset the rates back to the original lower rates on the variable rate loans.

To me, this plan is FAR better than giving the fu*king banks a trillion or so dollars, which will just wind up in the CEO's pockets.

Ledge Moderators

10-11-2008, 06:42 PM

Comments that the One Post solution is making political conversation unmanageable are well taken. We are unsticking the "All Political Posts" post, but will not be creating a separate forum for Politics.

Create your new and separate political topics, as you like.

Please title all political threads as such so that they can be easily avoided by those who are not interested.

nickay

10-11-2008, 09:12 PM

SNL does it again part 2 of the debate:

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Hall & Oates sings song on debate :

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nickay

10-11-2008, 09:48 PM

Sorry forgot to add this clip in my other post .

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