Heart ask Sarah Palin to stop using "Barracuda"

[GoldDustOrphan]

Politicians are almost as bad as free downloaders for the amount of music they take without permission. When it was revealed that Sarah Palin’s nickname is “Barracuda” it was only a question of time before the classic Heart song of the same name was used for her Vice Presidential campaign. Sure enough, the track surfaced during Palin’s speech at the Republican National Convention on Wednesday night.

And sisters Ann and Nancy Wilson, who make up Heart, aren’t happy. A statement issued yesterday afternoon says: “The Republican campaign did not ask for permission to use the song, nor would they have been granted that permission. We have asked the Republican campaign publicly not to use our music. We hope our wishes will be honored.”

Unfortunately the song surfaced again last night, after John McCain’s speech, raising the Wilsons’ ire once more. “I feel completely ****ed over,” said Nancy. “Sarah Palin’s views and values in NO WAY represent us as American women. We ask that our song “Barracuda” no longer be used to promote her image.” Heart join Van Halen, John Mellencamp, and Jackson Browne as artists who have issued similar warnings to the Republicans about the use of their songs. [Rolling Stone]

[SuzeQuze]

How would Palin feel if someone stole her work? What an assh*le.

[omigodstevie]

NICE! I am not a Sarah Palin fan...makes me happy to know Ann and Nancy aren't either : )

[Tango]

I don't know that Palin asked for Barracuda to be played, but clearly someone in the organization did.

http://in.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idINIndia-35341520080905

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The rock group Heart, angry that its 70's hit "Barracuda" is being used as the unofficial theme song for Republican Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin, is biting back at the Alaska governor.

The song, a nod to the "Sarah Barracuda" nickname Palin earned on the basketball court in high school, was dusted off for her appearance at the Republican National Convention in St. Paul on Wednesday.

Heart singers Ann and Nancy Wilson said a "cease-and-desist" letter has been sent to the Republicans asking them not to use the song.

"The Republican campaign did not ask for permission to use the song, nor would they have been granted that permission," according to a statement issued late on Thursday on behalf of the sisters.

There was no immediate comment from the Republican camp.

Last month, rocker Jackson Browne sued Republican presidential candidate John McCain, the Republican National Committee and the Ohio Republican Party, accusing them of using his 1977 hit "Running on Empty" in a campaign ad without permission.

Copyright law may not be on the Wilsons' side as the song is licensed for public performance under a blanket fee paid by the venue to ASCAP, the firm that collects royalties on behalf of composers and copyright owners.

Despite the Wilson sisters' objections, one of the song's co-writers said he was "thrilled" that the song was used.

In an e-mail to Reuters, the band's former guitarist, Roger Fisher, said it was a win-win situation. Heart gets publicity and royalties, while the Republicans benefit from "the ingenious placement of a kick-ass song," Fisher said.

Fisher and the Wilsons wrote "Barracuda" with drummer Michael DeRosier. It appeared on the group's second album, "Little Queen" in 1977. The song was inspired by the band's anger over an obnoxious record label executive.

-----
despite the article above, I can't imagine this song would get further airplay out of plain respect to the principle writer of the song.

[estranged4life]

Heart join Van Halen, John Mellenchump, and Jackson Browne as artists who have issued similar warnings to the Republicans about the use of their songs.

who would want to use a MellenCHUMP song in the first place, his 'grass roots' style worked fine in the 80's - sucks mega-doodies in the 2000's. Dude, The 50's called, they want that hair style back.

Brian "Little dittie about Jack and Diane, two operatives working for Iran - Jack wants to execute Americans from afar and Diane wants to bomb Capitol Hill using her bomb-filled car..." j.

The BEST Music is anti-political...

[BombaySapphire3]

When I heard it played again last night after McCain's snooze inducing acceptance speech I wondered myself how long the Wilson sisters would tolerate the use of their classic ..I'm sure that they must feel the way that any sensible women would about the wacky but scary rise of Sarah Palin.

[iamnotafraid]

Heart............. what a big surprise. :rolleyes:

[estranged4life]

To Heart, McCain/Palin isnt alright, but for some POS 'Soccer-Mom' Van TV ad to use one of their songs is quite okay :shrug:

:D

[chiliD]

To Heart, McCain/Palin isnt alright, but for some POS 'Soccer-Mom' Van TV ad to use one of their songs is quite okay :shrug:

:D


The TV ad PAID for the use, the f-ing Refacisticans didn't.

[estranged4life]

The TV ad PAID for the use, the f-ing Refacisticans didn't.

(Wasnt being an ass at ya chili dude) I was making fun of Heart moreso than the Rethugs (Which is very easy to do these days)

[BombaySapphire3]

To Heart, McCain/Palin isnt alright, but for some POS 'Soccer-Mom' Van TV ad to use one of their songs is quite okay :shrug:

:D

I guess Ann and Nancy just don't want their song associated with an old geezer who could croak in office at any time leaving a true rightwingnut whackjob in the oval office to begin work on setting back women's rights and human rights in general back decades.I despise Bush no question but I would take that major league ****up back if I could before I saw this woman in the Presidency.

[estranged4life]

I guess Ann and Nancy just don't want their song associated with an old geezer who could croak in office at any time leaving a true rightwingnut whackjob in the oval office to begin work on setting back women's rights and human rights in general back decades.I despise Bush no question but I would take that major league ****up back if I could before I saw this woman in the Presidency.

"If the Price WAS Right", Heart would've sold the song to the GOP (Gas and Oil Party)...





Sure and monkeys would've flew straight outta my ass.

[estranged4life]

How would Palin feel if someone stole her work?

actually? Noone with the IQ of the common desert cactus would be my guess...My apologies to those who fight for the rights of the lonely desert cactus.

Her BS statement of "This is God's war" is about as believable as William Shatner winning an Academy Award for doing Shakespeare...Really? I always thought the big dude would prefer the game of "Risk" to "war", unless were talking 'bout the band "WAR"...Then I'm sure he would be down like a clown...

Word.

[BombaySapphire3]

actually? Noone with the IQ of the common desert cactus would be my guess...My apologies to those who fight for the rights of the lonely desert cactus.

Her BS statement of "This is God's war" is about as believable as William Shatner winning an Academy Award for doing Shakespeare...Really? I always thought the big dude would prefer the game of "Risk" to "war", unless were talking 'bout the band "WAR"...Then I'm sure he would be down like a clown...

Word.

She also wants to have creationism only taught in schools ,threatened to fire a librarian if she did not remove books from the shelves that she felt should be banned.And I won't go over again her idiotic notions of birth control education which did not work even for her own daughter.I'm telling you this chick should have anyone that cares about civil liberty or human rights chilled to the bone.

[estranged4life]

She also wants to have creationism only taught in schools ,threatened to fire a librarian if she did not remove books from the shelves that she felt should be banned.And I won't go over again her idiotic notions of birth control education which did not work even for her own daughter.I'm telling you this chick should have anyone that cares about civil liberty or human rights chilled to the bone.

OK US Rep.Mary Fallin isnt McCabbagePatchKid's running partner - she makes Palin seem harmless by comparison.

Sad thing is Fallin is considering running for governor in a few years...I can see it now, the Cross will have 4 extensions added to make it look like the Swazstika (Which the dumbass Germans STOLE from American Indians - I think us injuns should steal their kraut/VW's in return and rename 'em just to piss 'em off)

As for "Birth Control"...A bumper sticker seen today made light of a GREAT birth control practice "Marriage = Birth Control (ie Ya not gettin' any)"

I think creationism should be taught in school...Stan Lee CREATED Iron Man, Spider Man, the Fantastic Four. Gene Roddenberry CREATED "Star Trek". AL Gore CREATED the internet, polo, tuna salad, etc. Budweiser CREATED the "King of Beers". Taiyo Kuden CREATED the CDR technology...That is the CREATIONISM I think should be taught, lol!!!

[LukeA]

She also wants to have creationism only taught in schools

You know what's hilarious? Her father was a science teacher.

[BombaySapphire3]

You know what's hilarious? Her father was a science teacher.

At this point nothing would surprise me about her.She seems like a parody of an extreme archetype, an invention, which would be hilarious to me too but due to the fact that this creature could be in the oval office ,in the most powerful position in the world in a very short time if fate lines up the wrong way keeps me from being able to laugh much.

[Hawkeye]

there's no better chance that McCain will die in office then any ohter past president. His mom is STILL alive. Air Force One could crash any day for all we know. So what if he's 72, that shouldn't have everyone saying that means Palin is probably going to be the president if Mccain is elected.

[BombaySapphire3]

there's no better chance that McCain will die in office then any ohter past president. His mom is STILL alive. Air Force One could crash any day for all we know. So what if he's 72, that shouldn't have everyone saying that means Palin is probably going to be the president if Mccain is elected.

IF he wins he will be the oldest President ever to take first term office ..he has had malignant melanoma 4 times ..his father died of a heart attack at 70 ..believe me if the McCain/Palin ticket does win which I desperately hope they do not I will be praying for John McCain's good health and longevity every day.

[DavidMn]

I have a question. what exactly are the legal ramifications of someone campaigning for office using someone's song. Someone told me that if the person running for office or his or her campaign pays royalties, they can play whatever song they want. Ive never really been all that sure of how the legal process works with regards to songs and political campaigns go.

[Musicman408]

Politicians are almost as bad as free downloaders for the amount of music they take without permission. When it was revealed that Sarah Palin’s nickname is “Barracuda” it was only a question of time before the classic Heart song of the same name was used for her Vice Presidential campaign. Sure enough, the track surfaced during Palin’s speech at the Republican National Convention on Wednesday night.

And sisters Ann and Nancy Wilson, who make up Heart, aren’t happy. A statement issued yesterday afternoon says: “The Republican campaign did not ask for permission to use the song, nor would they have been granted that permission. We have asked the Republican campaign publicly not to use our music. We hope our wishes will be honored.”

Unfortunately the song surfaced again last night, after John McCain’s speech, raising the Wilsons’ ire once more. “I feel completely ****ed over,” said Nancy. “Sarah Palin’s views and values in NO WAY represent us as American women. We ask that our song “Barracuda” no longer be used to promote her image.” Heart join Van Halen, John Mellencamp, and Jackson Browne as artists who have issued similar warnings to the Republicans about the use of their songs. [Rolling Stone]

I think that is awesome and hilarious. It's good to see people who don't want to be associated with the Republicans......:nod:


GAWWW I hope Obama wins.:blob2:

[Mad4stevie]

Heart says "Barracuda" use is fishy
By Reuters
September 5, 2008, 10:24 pm PDT


Ann (L) and Nancy Wilson of Heart perform at the 'Idol Gives Back' show at the Kodak theatre in Hollywood, California April 6, 2008. The rock group Heart, angry that its 70's hit 'Barracuda' is being used as the unofficial theme song for Republican Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin, is biting back at the Alaska governor. (Mario Anzuoni/Reuters)Reuters LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The rock group Heart, angry that its '70s hit "Barracuda" is being used as the unofficial theme song for Republican Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin, is taking aim at the Alaska governor.

The song, a nod to the "Sarah Barracuda" nickname Palin earned on the basketball court in high school, was dusted off for her appearance at the Republican National Convention in St. Paul on Wednesday.

Heart singers Ann and Nancy Wilson said a "cease-and-desist" letter has been sent to the Republicans asking them not to use the song.

"The Republican campaign did not ask for permission to use the song, nor would they have been granted that permission," according to a statement issued late on Thursday on behalf of the sisters.

The McCain campaign said it had obtained the appropriate licenses to play the song.

"The McCain campaign respects intellectual property rights," spokesman Brian Rogers said. "Accordingly, prior to using 'Barracuda' at any events, we paid for and obtained all necessary licenses."

Last month, rocker Jackson Browne sued Republican presidential candidate John McCain, the Republican National Committee and the Ohio Republican Party, accusing them of using his 1977 hit "Running on Empty" in a campaign ad without permission.

Copyright law may not be on the Wilsons' side as the song is licensed for public performance under a blanket fee paid by the venue to ASCAP, the firm that collects royalties on behalf of composers and copyright owners.

Despite the Wilson sisters' objections, one of the song's co-writers said he was "thrilled" that the song was used.

In an e-mail to Reuters, the band's former guitarist, Roger Fisher, said it was a win-win situation. Heart gets publicity and royalties, while the Republicans benefit from "the ingenious placement of a kick-ass song," Fisher said.

But in a subsequent email, Fisher said he strongly endorsed the Democratic ticket, and would donate a portion of royalties he receives from the Republicans' airing of "Barracuda" to the campaign of Sen. Barack Obama.

"With my contribution to Obama's campaign, the Republicans are now supporting Obama," he said.

Fisher and the Wilsons wrote "Barracuda" with drummer Michael DeRosier. It appeared on the group's second album, "Little Queen" in 1977. The song was inspired by the band's anger over an obnoxious record label executive.

(Reporting by Dean Goodman; editing by Jill Serjeant)

[SuzeQuze]

You know what's hilarious? Her father was a science teacher.

Dude, that's not hilarious. That's SCARY!

[David]

At this point nothing would surprise me about her.She seems like a parody of an extreme archetype, an invention, which would be hilarious to me too but due to the fact that this creature could be in the oval office ,in the most powerful position in the world in a very short time if fate lines up the wrong way keeps me from being able to laugh much.I think she's going to be a great vice president -- if she gets elected! :nod: :wavey:

[BombaySapphire3]

I think she's going to be a great vice president -- if she gets elected! :nod: :wavey:

Ahh the devil's advocate .:laugh: gotta be since you recently stated "I don't like any of them " and "I don't vote".Nice try though.:wavey:

[David]

Ahh the devil's advocate .:laugh: gotta be since you recently stated "I don't like any of them " and "I don't vote".Nice try though.:wavey:But seriously, folks: I'd rather have someone who has some measure of common sense & a reasonable (i.e., pro-liberty) political philosophy (perhaps I should say "leanings" or "attitude," since so few politicians actually have a political philosophy) than someone with a lot of experience but little respect for liberty or impractical ideas about how to proceed. Obama & Biden are out on the liberty count.

Paul Fussell gets my vote (again) this year.

[BombaySapphire3]

Obama & Biden are out on the liberty count.
I have seen the light .Palin is the gal for the job!A gun happy .anti-woman ,anti -gay ,book banning and abstinence only teaching theocracy is my idea of liberty too!!:blob2::blob2::blob2:!

[David]

I have seen the light .Palin is the gal for the job!A gun happy .anti-woman ,anti -gay ,book banning and abstinence only teaching theocracy is my idea of liberty too!!:blob2::blob2::blob2:!If I were up there partying with you now, I'd klonk you on the head! Seriously, though, if I saw someone sneaking up to Stevie with a knife in his jacket -- like a crazed fan or a stalker or something -- I'd need my gun! We need all our resources to protect Stevie from insanity, no?

[BombaySapphire3]

If I were up there partying with you now, I'd klonk you on the head! Seriously, though, if I saw someone sneaking up to Stevie with a knife in his jacket -- like a crazed fan or a stalker or something -- I'd need my gun! We need all our resources to protect Stevie from insanity, no?
Yeah still wouldn't need a gun though..with my rear naked choke the stalker would be out like a light in seconds!:laugh:

[StandbackStevie]

I don't know why politicians have to use songs anyway i know clinton used fleetwood mac's "Don't Stop". They seemed to be pleased If an artists that wrote the song and recorded the song and they are using that song that the artists doesn't want to be associated with that political party the republicans should honor Hearts, Van Halen and Jackson Browne to not play there songs cause they should have that write they wrote the song its theres it's if an politician can't honor a musicians request before a law suit enters the picture so if they are ignoring the song writers who wrote the song to stop playing there song so to me makes me think they will ignore the american people too when stuff needs to get done in this country to get back on its feet. Palin is a qvc host that should be selling tupperware on cable.

Cheers to Heart for Fighting for there music screw Palin all she is, is McCain's Fluffer.

[estranged4life]

Will McCain's Heart Stop?
Whether the campaign needs permission to play "Barracuda."
By Chris Wilson

Ann and Nancy Wilson, the frontwomen of the rock band Heart, are demanding that the McCain campaign stop using their 1977 song "Barracuda" at political rallies after the song was played in honor of vice-presidential nominee Sarah Palin on both Wednesday and Thursday nights. Does the McCain campaign have to honor the Wilsons' wishes?

Not if the campaign has the correct license. Like thousands of other songs, "Barracuda" is distributed by the American Society of Composers, Authors, and Publishers, meaning that any entity that is licensed with ASCAP can play a song without getting the artist's explicit permission. This license can be held by a venue, like a club or a sports arena, and apply to all events that take place there. In this case, the Xcel Energy Center in St. Paul, Minn., would be the holder, but a representative tells the Explainer that the venue's ASCAP license applies only to sporting events for the Minnesota Wild and the Minnesota Swarm, the professional hockey and lacrosse teams, respectively; otherwise, it's up to the people who use the premises to get their own. A spokesperson for the Republican Convention said the event did have an ASCAP license separate from the one for sports.

Assuming the licenses were all in order, the Wilson sisters probably don't have much legal recourse. But it would be a much different story if the campaign had used the song in an ad or a promotional video. While an ASCAP license covers the right to perform a song, you need a separate "synchronization license" from the publisher to put the song in an ad. Some artists ask for stipulations in their contracts with publishers that prevent their songs from being used for political advertisements or any other causes they find objectionable. (Neil Diamond, for example, is known to be very reluctant to license his songs for programming that is even vaguely political.)

Last month, singer-songwriter Jackson Browne sued the McCain campaign, the Republican National Committee, and the Ohio Republican Party over the use of his song "Running on Empty" in an ad without obtaining a sync license. Had the McCain campaign used "Barracuda" in a video montage about Palin, they would have been required to get this permission, which the Wilson sisters presumably would have rejected—assuming their publisher asked them.

It's very common for musicians to object to the use of their material. The McCain campaign has already run afoul of several other artists this year, including John Mellencamp and Van Halen. In both those cases, the artists were objecting to the use of their songs at rallies, where an ASCAP license would apply. The McCain campaign agreed to stop playing Mellencamp songs voluntarily. The issue also frequently crops up with Christian groups that do not wish their material to be used at events they find objectionable.

If the campaign chooses to continue playing "Barracuda," and so much so that it becomes associated with Palin, the Wilson sisters could have a legal claim. They might argue a violation of their "right to publicity," which protects a person from having her identity used for marketing purposes. Such protections vary by state and tend to apply to commercial products, not political messages.

[TpaDavid]

From Heart's web site:
Heart Condemns the Use of the Song Barracuda at the Republican Convention
[ 9/5/2008 ]
Rock Group Heart Condemn The Use of The Song Barracuda at The Republican Convention
Ann and Nancy Wilson of Heart have informed the McCain/Palin Campaign that Universal Music Publishing and Sony BMG have sent a cease-and-desist notice to not use one of Heart's classic songs "Barracuda," as the congratulatory theme for Sarah Palin.
The Republican campaign did not ask for permission to use the song, nor would they have been granted that permission.
"We have asked the Republican campaign not to use our music.
We hope our wishes will be honored."

Heart's message board had to be closed on Friday after an invation of trolls. Ann and Nancy's RAWK!

[ajmccarrell]

Personally, they ought to quit their whining. If Obama wanted to use one of my songs, I'd be honored. I might say something on the website about not agreeing with his views, but I would consider it an honor to be part of history, or something along those lines. We all should take a lesson from John McVie; he toured relentlessly behind Bill Clinton even though he is a Republican. I think it showed class. The Wilson sisters strike me a classless in this instance.

[BombaySapphire3]

Personally, they ought to quit their whining. If Obama wanted to use one of my songs, I'd be honored. I might say something on the website about not agreeing with his views, but I would consider it an honor to be part of history, or something along those lines. We all should take a lesson from John McVie; he toured relentlessly behind Bill Clinton even though he is a Republican. I think it showed class. The Wilson sisters strike me a classless in this instance.

Nah I think they just know what women would have in Sarah Palin..and understanding that I can easily see why Ann and Nancy would not want her to use their song as her theme song.

[gldstwmn]

We all should take a lesson from John McVie; he toured relentlessly behind Bill Clinton even though he is a Republican.

The band wasn't even together anymore when Clinton chose the song for his campaign. They reunited to play it at his inaugural.

[LukeA]

We all should take a lesson from John McVie; he toured relentlessly behind Bill Clinton even though he is a Republican. I think it showed class. The Wilson sisters strike me a classless in this instance.

Please refresh my memory as to where/when John has said he is a Republican.

If I was a musical artist, I wouldn't want a song of mine misrepresented and used to promote a political agenda that completely differed with my own. What's classless about that?

[BombaySapphire3]

Please refresh my memory as to where/when John has said he is a Republican.

If I was a musical artist, I wouldn't want a song of mine misrepresented and used to promote a political agenda that completely differed with my own. What's classless about that?

He is right about McVie at least according to Lindsey who around the time of The Clinton inauguration described John as a "rock ribbed Republican"..there is nothing classless about the Wilson's not wanting Palin to use their song...Palin herself on the other hand seems very short on that particular quality.

[LukeA]

He is right about McVie at least according to Lindsey who around the time of The Clinton inauguration described John as a "rock ribbed Republican"

Thanks... I need to track down that quote.

[ajmccarrell]

Please refresh my memory as to where/when John has said he is a Republican.

If I was a musical artist, I wouldn't want a song of mine misrepresented and used to promote a political agenda that completely differed with my own. What's classless about that?


Well, Google "John McVie Republican" and you'll see that he says that he is quite a bit. There was also an article on the SYW that they would put Kerry stickers on his guitar case to needle him. When you release an album, you may understand you'll need all the publicity you get get! :)

[ajmccarrell]

He is right about McVie at least according to Lindsey who around the time of The Clinton inauguration described John as a "rock ribbed Republican"..there is nothing classless about the Wilson's not wanting Palin to use their song...Palin herself on the other hand seems very short on that particular quality.

Re the last comment... Based on what? She seems a lot classier than the lefty bloggers and magazines that make up stories about her. I think she's handled anything tossed at her with a great deal of class and dignity.

[paleshadow]

Personally, they ought to quit their whining. If Obama wanted to use one of my songs, I'd be honored. I might say something on the website about not agreeing with his views, but I would consider it an honor to be part of history, or something along those lines. We all should take a lesson from John McVie; he toured relentlessly behind Bill Clinton even though he is a Republican. I think it showed class. The Wilson sisters strike me a classless in this instance.

I wonder if they really even mind that much at all. When you think about it, they are getting much more publicity by objecting to it than they would if they happily collected their royalties and kept quiet.

[LukeA]

I wonder if they really even mind that much at all. When you think about it, they are getting much more publicity by objecting to it than they would if they happily collected their royalties and kept quiet.

Depending on the venue and how its reported, it amounts to about 50 cents per spin... there's no real royalties to be had- unless it somehow spurred "Barracuda" into the Top 40, or something.

I have to believe that its simply and honestly the principle of it all.

[paleshadow]

Depending on the venue and how its reported, it amounts to about 50 cents per spin... there's no real royalties to be had- unless it somehow spurred "Barracuda" into the Top 40, or something.

I have to believe that its simply and honestly the principle of it all.

I like Heart, but like many older acts, they aren't the huge stars they once were. They are touring a triple bill right now with Journey, and Cheap Trick. So while they may only get 50 cents every time the republicans play Barracuda, they are getting their name out there in a much bigger way than they would warming up the audience for Journey. They may even sell some more concert tickets due to the publicity, not to mention the potential to gain new fans who may have never heard of them. While it very well may be a matter of principal to them, it definitely is more beneficial for them to complain than to keep silent. Even the co writer and former guitarist of the song recognized that this exposure is a good thing for them.

[gldstwmn]

There was also an article on the SYW that they would put Kerry stickers on his guitar case to needle him. When

That was from Cory Buckingham's tour diary. She never said what the intent was.

[gldstwmn]

I like Heart, but like many older acts, they aren't the huge stars they once were. They are touring a triple bill right now with Journey, and Cheap Trick. So while they may only get 50 cents every time the republicans play Barracuda, they are getting their name out there in a much bigger way than they would warming up the audience for Journey. They may even sell some more concert tickets due to the publicity, not to mention the potential to gain new fans who may have never heard of them. While it very well may be a matter of principal to them, it definitely is more beneficial for them to complain than to keep silent. Even the co writer and former guitarist of the song recognized that this exposure is a good thing for them.

Roger Fisher is a jackass. I doubt that Heart needs the money or publicity at this stage of their career. I think Ann and Nancy don't want Barracuda being used by the McCain campaign.

[BombaySapphire3]

Re the last comment... Based on what? She seems a lot classier than the lefty bloggers and magazines that make up stories about her. I think she's handled anything tossed at her with a great deal of class and dignity.

Well some of the"'stories" are not made up .It is difficult to lie about actual video footage of her stating her wacky extreme religious veiws from the pulpit of a holy roller church..really almost everthing about her smacks of a Jerry Springer episode..like I said earlier she seems almost like an invented stereotype of a xenophobic,religiuosly preoccupied rightwingnut who can only see things in black and white ..is this really what this country needs now? I can't imagine it does.

[ajmccarrell]

Well some of the"'stories" are not made up .It is difficult to lie about actual video footage of her stating her wacky extreme religious veiws from the pulpit of a holy roller church..really almost everthing about her smacks of a Jerry Springer episode..like I said earlier she seems almost like an invented stereotype of a xenophobic,religiuosly preoccupied rightwingnut who can only see things in black and white ..is this really what this country needs now? I can't imagine it does.

I just can't go along and call someone a wacko based off of a series of basically positive statements. Bear in mind that you basically consider ALL religion extreme that asserts itself in any way and most of the population would look at the same video and shrug. I basically look at someone's religion and determine whether or not it basically has a positive message or not. If she was making statements about victimhood, terrorizing someone, or killing people, I would wholeheartedly agree with you. I think a lot of it is that you may not know the inner workings of various degrees of Calvinism, which is basically a theology that says that all things are willed by God. I don't agree with it, but I don't condemn something because I simply don't understand it.

[paleshadow]

Roger Fisher is a jackass. I doubt that Heart needs the money or publicity at this stage of their career. I think Ann and Nancy don't want Barracuda being used by the McCain campaign.

Once again, no matter what their feelings are, or whether they need it or not, objecting to the song being used has created more publicity than not objecting to it would have. I Roger Fisher a jackass because he doesn't object to the song being used, or are their other reasons? I'm not familiar with the members of the band besides Ann and Nancy.

[BombaySapphire3]

I just can't go along and call someone a wacko based off of a series of basically positive statements. Bear in mind that you basically consider ALL religion extreme that asserts itself in any way and most of the population would look at the same video and shrug. I basically look at someone's religion and determine whether or not it basically has a positive message or not. If she was making statements about victimhood, terrorizing someone, or killing people, I would wholeheartedly agree with you. I think a lot of it is that you may not know the inner workings of various degrees of Calvinism, which is basically a theology that says that all things are willed by God. I don't agree with it, but I don't condemn something because I simply don't understand it.

I understand far more about Christianity than you imagine I do .My father is an ordained baptist minster..I however have been pretty much an atheist since I was 18 or so..IMO people can worship whatever or whoever they wish but when their belief systems intrude on the rights and civil liberties of others then I have a real problem.The Christian right is intent on proselytizing and trying to shove their agenda on to others.Palin has made to me very preposterous statements like the "war is God's will"(another crusade perhaps?) and God wants Alaska to have a pipeline .If God loves us so much then why did he put more of the world's oil reserves under the sand of those pesky Moslems?ahh i know because they not us are more beloved by Allah!This is just the kind of stupidity that is causing so many problems ,murder and mayhem in the world today ..I myself would prefer not ot have someone in the White House that would even utter such words ..simple as that.

[DestinyRules]

I think the reason Heart is so irked over Palin's use of "Barracuda" is the fact that it implies that Heart and its members endorse the McCain/Palin campaign for president.

Even if Palin had every right under ASCAP to use the song without Ann and Nancy Wilson's permission, to continue to do so and to suggest that Heart endorses her politics -- and McCain's -- is disingenuous at best.

Having said that, it does seem like grandstanding on Heart's part -- and on Jackson Browne's part when he sued McCain over the use of "Running On Empty." Why not simply issue a statement denying any endorsement of the candidate by the use of the song?

[ajmccarrell]

I think the reason Heart is so irked over Palin's use of "Barracuda" is the fact that it implies that Heart and its members endorse the McCain/Palin campaign for president.

Even if Palin had every right under ASCAP to use the song without Ann and Nancy Wilson's permission, to continue to do so and to suggest that Heart endorses her politics -- and McCain's -- is disingenuous at best.

Having said that, it does seem like grandstanding on Heart's part -- and on Jackson Browne's part when he sued McCain over the use of "Running On Empty." Why not simply issue a statement denying any endorsement of the candidate by the use of the song?


They actually did have mechanical licenses and were paying royalties to the Wilson sisters and Jackson Browne.

[ajmccarrell]

I understand far more about Christianity than you imagine I do .My father is an ordained baptist minster..I however have been pretty much an atheist since I was 18 or so..IMO people can worship whatever or whoever they wish but when their belief systems intrude on the rights and civil liberties of others then I have a real problem.The Christian right is intent on proselytizing and trying to shove their agenda on to others.Palin has made to me very preposterous statements like the "war is God's will"(another crusade perhaps?) and God wants Alaska to have a pipeline .If God loves us so much then why did he put more of the world's oil reserves under the sand of those pesky Moslems?ahh i know because they not us are more beloved by Allah!This is just the kind of stupidity that is causing so many problems ,murder and mayhem in the world today ..I myself would prefer not ot have someone in the White House that would even utter such words ..simple as that.

I have yet to see a Pentacostal strap their kids with explosive devices and go blow up a shopping mall. The worst you see is some nutburger shooting up an abortion clinic every few years. Even when that happens, there aren't churches shooting guns in the air and paying the families of the shooters, or making them saints. Those people get castigated and repudiated by the churches. When was the last time you saw Ahmadinijad condemn a suicide bomber? This kind of moral equivocation is the kind that lead to ignoring the warnings before 9/11 and that allowed every evil dictator in the world to come to power. Evil happens when good people refuse to recognize it and do nothing when they see it.

[BombaySapphire3]

I have yet to see a Pentacostal strap their kids with explosive devices and go blow up a shopping mall. The worst you see is some nutburger shooting up an abortion clinic every few years. Even when that happens, there aren't churches shooting guns in the air and paying the families of the shooters, or making them saints. Those people get castigated and repudiated by the churches. When was the last time you saw Ahmadinijad condemn a suicide bomber? This kind of moral equivocation is the kind that lead to ignoring the warnings before 9/11 and that allowed every evil dictator in the world to come to power. Evil happens when good people refuse to recognize it and do nothing when they see it.

If it had not been for fundamentalism and religious extremism we would still be looking at the WTC in the lower Manhattan skyline.It is as simple as that .It was not the political ideology of some SF bay area granola chomping ,tree hugging atheistic liberal of that I can assure you.The murdered birth control clinic workers you cited are just as much victims of fundamentalism as the people in the WTC on 9/11.I don't value their lives any less because they were murdered by Christians instead of Muslims .I like you was indoctrinated into Christianity from birth .I am also a natural born skeptic for better or worse so I rejected it wholesale before I was even an adult.It is difficult for people who were indoctrinated this way to even fathom how an atheist views the world .But consider this analogy in which I will replace God or Allah with other imaginary beings .Sarah Palin:"Santa Claus wants Alaska to have a pipeline"(sorry Rudolph I guess reindeer power isn't good enough anymore)Osama Bin Laden:"Tooth Fairy be praised ! She has struck down the twin towers of evil and American imperialism!"Sarah Palin "The Iraqi war is the Easter Bunny's will!"This is truly how I view at least the 3 Abrahamic Old Testament based guilt and fear based religions and in particular the literalist and fundamentalist who buy into them.Like I said people can worship whoever or whatever they wish but when those beliefs influence the policy that applies to all of us I have a real problem with it.

[GoldDustOrphan]

Heart RAWWKS!

Sorry, couldn't help it.

[TpaDavid]

Heart RAWWKS!

Sorry, couldn't help it.

Yes they do ! Love A&N!

[Zombie]

Like I said people can worship whoever or whatever they wish but when those beliefs influence the policy that applies to all of us I have a real problem with it.

I'm with BombaySapphire here. I was raised Catholic, and rejected it wholesale at about 14, because it just didn't make any sense - no more nor less than any other theistic worldview I've come across, be it Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or any of the 31 flavors of Pagan Robbins lying about the place (Unless one's made of mint chocolate chip. Then we can talk, nootch).

What people choose to do with their beliefs is no business of mine, as long as it's not bothering other people that don't believe that way. If you believe everything the Bible says is absolute, literal truth or Odin's coming back and he's pissed, rock on with your bad selves.

When your religious beliefs start influencing government or public policy, though, then I have a problem. By this, I don't mean the "spirit" of a religion doing the influencing - i.e., JUST "do unto others" or JUST "an' it harm none." "Do unto others" is something of a tenet I try to live by, regardless of my atheism - not because Jesus may or may not have said it, but because it's just basic human decency.

But once you move past those things and into the other beliefs these religions can bring, you enter the danger zone. That basic spirit is rendered meaningless and human suffering inevitably follows. Did more people die at the hands of Islamic fundamentalism on 9-11 than have died at the hands of abortion clinic snipers over the years? Yes. But we cannot say that the abortion clinic shooters aren't as "bad" because they haven't managed to engage in some hardcore LARPin' Donkey Kong with a few airplanes and some really tall buildings. I'm pretty sure that the wife of a doctor gunned down in front of Planned Parenthood felt the same anguish when watching the crime scene footage on the evening news that the wife of a janitor in one of the Twin Towers did as she watched people throwing themselves from the windows in desperation, knowing one of those tiny falling bodies on the TV screen might very well have been her husband.

For me, it's not a matter of degree or numbers. Suffering is suffering. We all must face it in our lives in one form or another, because it is part of the human condition. But it is our responsibility to try to avoid causing more of it when we can - whether you're doing it because the Bible told you so or via your godless moral compass - because it is by this that we achieve grace.

The way to avoid causing suffering is to embrace reason and temperance on a large scale, and a big part of accomplishing that involves not sticking people that are bat**** ****in' crazy in office - PARTICULARLY in the United States. With great power comes great responsibility, to ourselves and to the world. We've got a very long arm, and we exert a lot of influence on the inhabitants of this planet. Allowing a fundamentalist of any stripe enough power to compel a nation to do terrible things is dangerous indeed. It might start out small, like, say...only teaching Creationism to children not old enough to examine it rationally...but it can leap up to terror in no time flat - and if you don't believe me, go ask a Christian or Muslim whose child was killed by India's Bharatiya Janata Party.

Sure, Palin hasn't advocated strapping dynamite to toddlers to kill the Great Beige Satan and, in comparison, instituting Creationism in our classrooms seems harmless, but making a move to indoctrinate our children at a young age will give her beliefs enough traction to begin working their way up the ladder, gaining more influence along the way.

We must, en masse, resolve to pay attention and fight it as soon as we begin to see the seeds of fundamentalism taking root. Regardless of our personal worldviews, we must give "do unto others" its rightful companion - "reason over faith."

If we don't, I'm afraid we may one day wake up to find we need to slap a sign on the Statue of Liberty that says "Abandon hope all ye who enter here."

Everybody Wang Chung Tonight,
Zombie


PS - Wow, I talk a lot. Sorry 'bout that, this is just an issue close to my heart. :lol:

[BombaySapphire3]

I'm with BombaySapphire here. I was raised Catholic, and rejected it wholesale at about 14, because it just didn't make any sense - no more nor less than any other theistic worldview I've come across, be it Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or any of the 31 flavors of Pagan Robbins lying about the place (Unless one's made of mint chocolate chip. Then we can talk, nootch).

What people choose to do with their beliefs is no business of mine, as long as it's not bothering other people that don't believe that way. If you believe everything the Bible says is absolute, literal truth or Odin's coming back and he's pissed, rock on with your bad selves.

When your religious beliefs start influencing government or public policy, though, then I have a problem. By this, I don't mean the "spirit" of a religion doing the influencing - i.e., JUST "do unto others" or JUST "an' it harm none." "Do unto others" is something of a tenet I try to live by, regardless of my atheism - not because Jesus may or may not have said it, but because it's just basic human decency.

But once you move past those things and into the other beliefs these religions can bring, you enter the danger zone. That basic spirit is rendered meaningless and human suffering inevitably follows. Did more people die at the hands of Islamic fundamentalism on 9-11 than have died at the hands of abortion clinic snipers over the years? Yes. But we cannot say that the abortion clinic shooters aren't as "bad" because they haven't managed to engage in some hardcore LARPin' Donkey Kong with a few airplanes and some really tall buildings. I'm pretty sure that the wife of a doctor gunned down in front of Planned Parenthood felt the same anguish when watching the crime scene footage on the evening news that the wife of a janitor in one of the Twin Towers did as she watched people throwing themselves from the windows in desperation, knowing one of those tiny falling bodies on the TV screen might very well have been her husband.

For me, it's not a matter of degree or numbers. Suffering is suffering. We all must face it in our lives in one form or another, because it is part of the human condition. But it is our responsibility to try to avoid causing more of it when we can - whether you're doing it because the Bible told you so or via your godless moral compass - because it is by this that we achieve grace.

The way to avoid causing suffering is to embrace reason and temperance on a large scale, and a big part of accomplishing that involves not sticking people that are bat**** ****in' crazy in office - PARTICULARLY in the United States. With great power comes great responsibility, to ourselves and to the world. We've got a very long arm, and we exert a lot of influence on the inhabitants of this planet. Allowing a fundamentalist of any stripe enough power to compel a nation to do terrible things is dangerous indeed. It might start out small, like, say...only teaching Creationism to children not old enough to examine it rationally...but it can leap up to terror in no time flat - and if you don't believe me, go ask a Christian or Muslim whose child was killed by India's Bharatiya Janata Party.

Sure, Palin hasn't advocated strapping dynamite to toddlers to kill the Great Beige Satan and, in comparison, instituting Creationism in our classrooms seems harmless, but making a move to indoctrinate our children at a young age will give her beliefs enough traction to begin working their way up the ladder, gaining more influence along the way.

We must, en masse, resolve to pay attention and fight it as soon as we begin to see the seeds of fundamentalism taking root. Regardless of our personal worldviews, we must give "do unto others" its rightful companion - "reason over faith."

If we don't, I'm afraid we may one day wake up to find we need to slap a sign on the Statue of Liberty that says "Abandon hope all ye who enter here."

Everybody Wang Chung Tonight,
Zombie


PS - Wow, I talk a lot. Sorry 'bout that, this is just an issue close to my heart. :lol:

No need to apologize Zombie ..wonderfully thought out post you have here and I was moved to read it .Truly we need more people with your view and insights..Welcome to the Ledge!.Hope to see alot more from you here!:thumbsup:

[Zombie]

No need to apologize Zombie ..wonderfully thought out post you have here and I was moved to read it .Truly we need more people with your view and insights..Welcome to the Ledge!.Hope to see alot more from you here!:thumbsup:

Hi hi! Thank you. I'm glad to be here! It will give me somewhere to yammer on about Stevie that won't result in my friends or family trying to smother me in my sleep. ;-)

I'm glad you liked the post - I feel like atheism is extremely misunderstood by the general public, so when talking about things like this, I try to present my opinions as best I can. It's my way of trying to let people know we're not all amoral Communists that start each day with eating an aborted fetus we've roasted over a burning American flag before heading out to carry illegal aliens across the border on our backs in order to aid us in taking over the schools so we can urge children to engage in premarital sex, force everyone to get gay married, and feed Twinkies to the obese to jack up the amount of tax dollars going to health care for the terminally liberal.

It's a small dream, but alas, it's the only one I've got.

;)

Here's a great video that goes with the topic at hand:

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