Sarah Palin (Alaska Gov) McCain's VP

[Betsy]

CHICAGO -- A Republican source told the Chicago Tribune Friday that Sen. John McCain has chosen Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin to be his running mate. Campaign officials would not confirm the report.

CNBC News also reported that a Republican strategist had told the network that Palin is the pick.

[vermicious knid]

Countdown to the first person in the media to dismiss her for being in beauty pageants. A former football star wouldn't be dismissed, but she will be.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I'm very shocked.. and happy! She has always been a Libertarian leaning Republican and now McCain has my vote believe it or not!

[ajmccarrell]

She's great! She's a real woman who hunts moose and everything. LOL! She comes from as far away from DC as you can get! It also helps that my dead aunt lived in Wasila under Palin.

[BombaySapphire3]

I'm very shocked.. and happy! She has always been a Libertarian leaning Republican and now McCain has my vote believe it or not!

Well you are are a Republican so why would that be so difficult to believe?

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Well you are are a Republican so why would that be so difficult to believe?

:laugh: Well because I was still debating on who was getting my vote. I was going to vote Libertarian Party.

[BombaySapphire3]

Countdown to the first person in the media to dismiss her for being in beauty pageants. A former football star wouldn't be dismissed, but she will be.

I would hope that alot of women would dismiss her for her strong anti-abortion record and gun toting ..I watched her speak and she is no Hillary Clinton.

[BombaySapphire3]

She's great! She's a real woman who hunts moose and everything. LOL! She comes from as far away from DC as you can get! It also helps that my dead aunt lived in Wasila under Palin.

Is that the same aunt that knew about Hillary killing Vince Foster? I smell a conspiracy here!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Is that the same aunt that knew about Hillary killing Vince Foster? I smell a conspiracy here!

:laugh:

....

[skcin]

I would hope that alot of women would dismiss her for her strong anti-abortion record and gun toting ..I watched her speak and she is no Hillary Clinton.

Looks like the McCain campaign wants to grab the women who are still pissed about Hillary losing the nomination. I know nothing about this woman, so I need to do some research before I make a decision about her. Not that I'd vote for McCain either way. But I hope he chose her because she's actually qualified & would be a good VP, not because she's a broad & might get him more votes. :cool:

BTW - It's McCain's 72nd birthday today. If that guy gets in & stays for 8 years (gulp) he'll be there when he's 80. Most people take their elderly parents' car keys away at that age, and some people are actually considering putting him into the most powerful position in the nation?

[estranged4life]

At least she is easy on my eyes compared to the other candidates :D

[BombaySapphire3]

BTW - It's McCain's 72nd birthday today. If that guy gets in & stays for 8 years (gulp) he'll be there when he's 80. Most people take their elderly parents' car keys away at that age, and some people are actually considering putting him into the most powerful position in the nation? And a cancer survivor as well..Van Palin has only has 2 years experience as Governer and was a small town Mayor prior to that so I guess the Republicans can stop braying about Barack's lack of experience with her a 72 year old + cancer survivor's heartbeat away from the Presidency.

[vermicious knid]

She is the only one of the four of them with executive experience. Given that they are all seeking to be in an executive office, that is significant.

[BombaySapphire3]

She is the only one of the four of them with executive experience. Given that they are all seeking to be in an executive office, that is significant.

and so is the upholding of Roe vs. Wade and numerous other important issues that will be undone by a McCain /Palin adminsration ..even moreso if he croaks midterm leaving her the Pres.You described yourself as a Democrat ..if you are thinking of voting the Repub ticket only because of her gender I don't get it I am a gay man and believe me if one of these self loathing Log Cabin Republicans ever found themselves on A GOP ticket(would never happen so in theory only)You can bet I'd be out pounding the pavement for the Democratic ticket.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

and was a small town Mayor prior to that.... heartbeat away from the Presidency.

This is exactly what the Obama camp is saying.. To me this is an insult to most of America, which consists of many "small towns".. we can't all be NYC you know. This just does not hold up IMO. Team Obama should have taken the high road it always pats itself on the back for traveling.

[estranged4life]

All politics aside, Palin can come be my "VP" anytime :D

[Brwn_eyes0511]

self loathing Log Cabin Republicans

You're actually going to say that.. I mean, really?

[ajmccarrell]

Is that the same aunt that knew about Hillary killing Vince Foster? I smell a conspiracy here!

Actually, no. That aunt died of MS. The aunt that knows about Vince Foster is Assistant U.S. Attorney Samantha Spangler. You might Google her, she would actually be in a position to know.

[estranged4life]

You might Google her, she would actually be in a position to know.

I would like to "google" Palin, and I am sure she would indeed 'know' the position...


:laugh:

[ajmccarrell]

And a cancer survivor as well..Van Palin has only has 2 years experience as Governer and was a small town Mayor prior to that so I guess the Republicans can stop braying about Barack's lack of experience with her a 72 year old + cancer survivor's heartbeat away from the Presidency.

Not really, because she isn't running for president, she's basically running for the presidential internship position. You CAN have on the job training for that, whereas it's McCain vs. Obama. If Palin were the nominee for president, you'd have a point. Personally, the democratic ticket looks backwards to me. Whatever you think of Biden, he HAS the experience. Why he's playing second fiddle to a guy whose only national experience consists of 144 days in the Senate is beyond me.

Also, a major difference between Palin and Obama is that she has as much Executive experience as Obama has Legislative experience. Obama has never run anything for ANY length of time. As a governor, you run a state. As a senator, you run your own office and that's it. The two kinds of experience are worlds apart.

[Johnny Stew]

You're actually going to say that.. I mean, really?

Well, you have to admit that it can be a baffling concept, since the Republican Party actively seeks to block both gay marriage and civil unions, they work to have sexual orientation removed from hate crime legislation, and they seek to block us from being able to adopt.

[Musicman408]

I think this is McCain's attempt at proving that he can be a candidate of change....I don't know anything about this lady, but I think he chose her more for the fact that she is a woman.

[BombaySapphire3]

You're actually going to say that.. I mean, really?

yes really..the truth will set you free:wavey:

[gldstwmn]

If it walks and talks like a whackadoodle...

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Well, you have to admit that it can be a baffling concept, since the Republican Party actively seeks to block both gay marriage and civil unions, they work to have sexual orientation removed from hate crime legislation, and they seek to block us from being able to adopt.

I really don't feel like getting involved in this same old argument.. but I will try to defend the position of gay republicans, yet again (and btw.. I am NOT a Log Cabin Republican). Actually, I'll let others voice the defense for once. These quotes come from two very liberal-minded blogs.

[M]any intolerant gay liberals really don’t care so much about how gay Republicans feel about “issues utterly unrelated to gay rights,” except to assume unfairly that their motivation is probably selfish (i.e., lower taxes) rather than not (i.e., national security, foreign policy, etc.).

The real source of their trouble is their singular focus on gay civil rights as an issue that ought to trump every other, so much so that they bear real feelings of betrayal and outright hatred for any one of “our own” who support politicians or even political parties on the other side of that issue. (No doubt that singular focus is easier when they just so happen to agree with Democrats on most every other issue.) [...]

The problem with the witch hunt at Manhunt, to slightly restate Jamie’s point, is too many on the gay left who believe that because of how the parties stand on gay rights, to be gay and Republican is a betrayal not to be tolerated, especially if you support individual politicians like McCain who have a rotten gay rights record.
- Chris Crain


And finally..


[C]ampaign rhetoric and partisan posturing aside, Obama is not perfect and McCain is not a homophobe…

Does our community have room for, as example, my gay African-American Democratic friend who is concerned that Barack Obama does not have adequate experience or maturity for this position? Is there a place for my gay Republican friend who thinks that McCain is a move in the right direction by the Republican Party and who wants to vote to support this improvement? What about women who believe that Hillary Clinton was treated grossly unfair by DNC operatives?

Or are gay activist correct in demanding that those who do not give unqualified support for the Democratic Party candidate are traitors and should be reviled and punished?
- Timothy Kincaid, Box Turtle Bulletin


It's simply not fair to assume that all Republicans think the same way.. that we all support the likes of Bush, etc.. Just as it would be insane of me to assume the same of Democrats. It's my party too, darn it!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

yes really..the truth will set you free:wavey:

I'm by no means a Log Cabin Republican.. however I am a Republican and nothing could be more untrue than to say I hate myself! In fact I am probably guilty of loving myself and my "gayness" too much! ;) Why sould I be a Democrat when I agree with almost NOTHING they stand for?

[BombaySapphire3]

It's simply not fair to assume that all Republicans think the same way.. that we all support the likes of Bush, etc.. Just as it would be insane of me to assume the same of Democrats. It's my party too, darn it!

Riddle me this ..did you not at one time vote for George W. Bush?

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Riddle me this ..did you not at one time vote for George W. Bush?

Yes I did.. Do I regret it now.. YES YES YES! That was also a few years ago when I had many different views that have since changed.

[BombaySapphire3]

Yes I did.. Do I regret it now.. YES YES YES! That was also a few years ago when I had many different views that have since changed.

well perhaps there is hope for you yet.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

well perhaps there is hope for you yet.

I suppose you missed almost all of my posts since I have returned a few weeks ago. I have spoken out against the war, called out the far right nut cases, expressed my disdain for the "religious right", etc..

I've done much growing and soul searching over the past few years and it has changed a lot of my views.. through all that I still find myself to be a Republican despite it all.. I'll never be a socialist Democrat.

[Johnny Stew]

Brandon.... I'm not someone who thinks the only important issue is gay rights. There are many and numerous issues that are important to me.

However -- despite everything the Log Cabin Republicans insist -- I still don't understand the concept of voting for politicians who are actively seeking to oppress you or make sure that you remain oppressed.

If it were just a matter of them being "less than supportive" on the issue, that would be one thing. But we're talking about politicians who actually CREATE legislation to deny us rights, and then spend time and our tax-dollars to push that legislation.

Is that really how you want your tax dollars to be spent? And is that really how you want them to spend their time, when there are so many other important issues they could be focusing on?

[BombaySapphire3]

I suppose you missed almost all of my posts since I have returned a few weeks ago. I have spoken out against the war, called out the far right nut cases, expressed my disdain for the "religious right", etc..

I've done much growing and soul searching over the past few years and it has changed a lot of my views.. through all that I still find myself to be a Republican despite it all.. I'll never be a socialist Democrat.

I think I did miss some of your recent posts it sounds to me like voting Libertarian like you had planned would be more consistent with your new views instead of backsliding into your old habits..there is a reason why the religious right is overjoyed with the choice of Palin as McCain's VP.

[gldstwmn]

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/07/mccainpalin_ticket_hits_iceber.html

by Frank James

Among the names mentioned as potential vice presidential picks for Sen. John McCain has been Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, the telegenic 44-year old mother of five.

Paiin, who earned the nickname "Sarah Barracuda" for her intensity as a high-school basketball player, a sobriquet some political opponents have kept alive, won election in 2006 as a reformer and was quickly seen as a rising star in Republican political circles. There was even a "Draft Sarah Palin for Vice President" movement or, at the very least, a website.

Palin has some awesome popularity ratings with Alaskan voters, something above 80 percent.

But now Palin is also caught up in a probe of her official conduct that probably nixes whatever long-shot chance she had to be on the McCain ticket. After all, she's only been a governor for two years.

Questions have arisen over whether Palin used her office to try and fire her ex brother-in-law from a state trooper's position. Palin asserts the charge is untrue but the Alaska Senate this week approved the hiring of an independent investigator to look into the charges.

Palin can take comfort in not having been implicated in the federal corruption investigation that has led to the indictment and conviction of some Alaskan politicians, like Sen. Ted Stevens who was indicted earlier this week.

Indeed, Palin made her reputation in Alaska by combating ethically challenged colleagues which didn't make her popular with her colleagues but did lead to the resignation of an Alaskan attorney general whose conflict-of-interest problems she helped to spotlight.


But having an Alaskan on the ticket would likely bring constant attention to the state's corruption problems which, since the state is Republican run, don't help the GOP brand.

Palin has another problem. After Alaska's public-safety commissioner Walt Monegan was fired (Monegan has said he felt pressure to dropkick the trooper) Palin replaced him with the former police chief of the city of Kenai. But he quit after it became known that he received a reprimand after sexual harassment allegations were filed against him in his former post.

At the very least, that incident raises some questions about Palin as a chief executive and might take some of the thrill away for some women who might otherwise be excited about seeing her on the ticket.

Thus, a McCain-Palin ticket doesn't appear to be in the cards.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Brandon.... I'm not someone who thinks the only important issue is gay rights. There are many and numerous issues that are important to me.

However probably not the same ones that are important to me (which is why there are multiple parties in the USA)

However -- despite everything the Log Cabin Republicans insist -- I still don't understand the concept of voting for politicians who are actively seeking to oppress you or make sure that you remain oppressed.

Actually the LCR's are very specific about the candidates they endorse.. they seek inclusive candidates mostly (Olympia Snowe, Arnold Schwarzenegger, etc..) Or at least those candidates who don't seem to have an "agenda" against the LGBT community. I do think it is possible to not be for gay marriage yet not hate us either.

politicians who actually CREATE legislation to deny us rights


Let's leave Bush out of this! ;)

I’ve long believed that the government should remain neutral on gay issues, neither discriminating against us nor offering us preferential treatment. Many gay activists, however, insist politicians reach out to us and identify us by name.

[gldstwmn]

Actually, no. That aunt died of MS. The aunt that knows about Vince Foster is Assistant U.S. Attorney Samantha Spangler. You might Google her, she would actually be in a position to know.

Bull****. If there's proof, let's see it. Put up or shut up. :rolleyes:
Also, a Google search produced nothing of note.

[BombaySapphire3]

Paiin, who earned the nickname "Sarah Barracuda"


Palin has another problem. After Alaska's public-safety commissioner Walt Monegan was fired (Monegan has said he felt pressure to dropkick the trooper) Palin replaced him with the former police chief of the city of Kenai. But he quit after it became known that he received a reprimand after sexual harassment allegations were filed against him in his former post.

At the very least, that incident raises some questions about Palin as a chief executive and might take some of the thrill away for some women who might otherwise be excited about seeing her on the ticket.

Thus, a McCain-Palin ticket doesn't appear to be in the cards.
Scandalous! I lllllike it!:laugh: I do however think that the Dinosaur and the Barracuda has a catchy ring to it!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

there is a reason why the religious right is overjoyed with the choice of Palin as McCain's VP.

That would probably be because she is very strong in her pro-life views. And although Palin is against gay marriage she doesn't seem to have some agenda against gay people, like many of the "Bushies" do. As a matter of fact Palin blocked legislation that would have stopped the state of Alaska from granting benefits to the partners of gay state employees.

[gldstwmn]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin

Matanuska Maid Dairy closure
When the Alaska Creamery Board recommended closing Matanuska Maid Dairy, an unprofitable state-owned business, Palin objected, citing concern for the impact on dairy farmers and the fact that the dairy had just received $600,000 in state money. When Palin learned that only the Board of Agriculture and Conservation could appoint Creamery Board members, she simply replaced the entire membership of the Board of Agriculture and Conservation.<12><32> The new board, led by businesswoman Kristan Cole, reversed the decision to close the dairy.<32> The new board approved milk price increases offered by the dairy in an attempt to control fiscal losses, even though milk from Washington was already offered in Alaskan stores at lower prices.<33> In the end, the dairy was forced to close, and the state tried to sell the assets to pay off its debts but received no bids.

[Johnny Stew]

However probably not the same ones that are important to me (which is why there are multiple parties in the USA)
That's possible. But, then again, maybe there are many issues we feel the same about. National security is a concern of mine -- and I find it laughable when folks act like Republicans are the only ones who can adequately protect our country.

Seriously, a Democrat isn't going to be lax on an issue like that either. Most especially not after 9/11.


Actually the LCR's are very specific about the candidates they endorse.. they seek inclusive candidates mostly (Olympia Snowe, Arnold Schwarzenegger, etc..) Or at least those candidates who don't seem to have an "agenda" against the LGBT community. I do think it is possible to not be for gay marriage yet not hate us either.
Yes, there are Republican politicians who support gay rights -- and I'm always pleased to see that. Unfortunately though, the majority of people who vote Republican are also voting for the politicians who actively work against us. Obviously, or they'd never make it into office.


I’ve long believed that the government should remain neutral on gay issues, neither discriminating against us nor offering us preferential treatment. Many gay activists, however, insist politicians reach out to us and identify us by name.
If we were treated as equals, it would be a different story. But we have a long way to go. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not asking for preferential treatment. I want no more rights than what my brother has as a straight man.

He could meet a girl tonight, get married tomorrow, and it would be recognized and accepted in every single state in this country. They can file jointly on their income tax forms, they can share health benefits and insurance, etc.

Meanwhile, I've been with the same man for almost four years now, and we have none of those rights. Yet I pay taxes just like my brother does. I vote, I contribute to the economy, and so forth.

I guess I just don't see how that's fair, but I want to make it clear that I don't necessarily feel we need a stake in "marriage." It's really just a word, and the other little kiddies can keep their monopoly on it if they wish. Just so long as we're granted civil unions that provide us an equal amount of rights and protection.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

That's possible. But, then again, maybe there are many issues we feel the same about. National security is a concern of mine -- and I find it laughable when folks act like Republicans are the only ones who can adequately protect our country.

Seriously, a Democrat isn't going to be lax on an issue like that either. Most especially not after 9/11.



I agree that Democrats care about the safety of our country.. I don't call anyone unpatriotic unless they really deserve it.. like William Ayers! lol.

I think thats the problem with our parties in this day and age. Both sides seem to be overrun with extremists. You have to either be Michael Moore or Jerry Falwell. I mean, come on.. are you freaking kidding me!!!


Yes, there are Republican politicians who support gay rights -- and I'm always pleased to see that. Unfortunately though, the majority of people who vote Republican are also voting for the politicians who actively work against us. Obviously, or they'd never make it into office.

Fighting for understanding and change is the ONLY way we are going to change this.. You know.. "The good fight". ;)


If we were treated as equals, it would be a different story. But we have a long way to go. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not asking for preferential treatment. I want no more rights than what my brother has as a straight man.

He could meet a girl tonight, get married tomorrow, and it would be recognized and accepted in every single state in this country. They can file jointly on their income tax forms, they can share health benefits and insurance, etc.

Meanwhile, I've been with the same man for almost four years now, and we have none of those rights. Yet I pay taxes just like my brother does. I vote, I contribute to the economy, and so forth.

I guess I just don't see how that's fair, but I want to make it clear that I don't necessarily feel we need a stake in "marriage." It's really just a word, and the other little kiddies can keep their monopoly on it if they wish. Just so long as we're granted civil unions that provide us an equal amount of rights and protection.

agreed.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Now if you all will excuse me.. Brandon has a hot date he has to get ready for! YAY! The first one in a while.. So we shall continue this discussion later I suppose.


WISH ME LUCK!


And I'll try to avoid political discussions seeing as how I'm sure he either 1) doesn't care or 2) is not a republican!

[Johnny Stew]

Now if you all will excuse me.. Brandon has a hot date he has to get ready for! YAY! The first one in a while.. So we shall continue this discussion later I suppose.


WISH ME LUCK!


And I'll try to avoid political discussions seeing as how I'm sure he either 1) doesn't care or 2) is not a republican!

Woo-hoo! Have fun, B.!

And, yeah, it's always a good idea to avoid politics and religion on a first-date. Although, on the other hand, it's a good way to see if he has a brain and can hold his own in a conversation.

Unless of course you're not worried if he has a brain. :laugh:

[The Chain]

I've been an Alaskan since I was 5. Couldn't believe the news this morning. Palin hasn't done anything too horrible, but still... she's red and in her short term as gov. she has already proved capable of being a little shady. I guess she's better than the bundle of corrupt politicians AK's been plauged with in recent times!! She has done a little to clean up our state gov., so thats good

Being an oil state, of course AK sually gets the Republican vote. But aside from the oil people, most everyone else you'll meet are quite progressive and tolerant. A lot of friendly people with open minds up here!:thumbsup:

Obama/Biden 08:)

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

I would hope that alot of women would dismiss her for her strong anti-abortion record and gun toting ..I watched her speak and she is no Hillary Clinton.

I'm sure I read that she's against gay marriage too

[CharmedHour]

I like Sarah, I think she is very smart and I think McCain did the right thing by picking her. I think they will do well. They have my vote! :thumbsup:
What was really cool was that everything that went on today was just down the road from where I work! :D They kept saying they were in Dayton...it's Fairborn.
Anyway, that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. :)

[mylittledemon]

She's great! She's a real woman who hunts moose and everything. LOL! She comes from as far away from DC as you can get! It also helps that my dead aunt lived in Wasila under Palin.

You can see how people might think that's NOT so much of a good idea. I think Alaskans are kind of out of touch with the rest of America. That's the vibe i got when I spent a year in Anchorage. It's not true of everyone there, obviously...

[ajmccarrell]

I'm by no means a Log Cabin Republican.. however I am a Republican and nothing could be more untrue than to say I hate myself! In fact I am probably guilty of loving myself and my "gayness" too much! ;) Why sould I be a Democrat when I agree with almost NOTHING they stand for?

Bravo! I wish there were more like you!

[LukeA]

I'm sure I read that she's against gay marriage too

Indeed. Alaska was one of the first states to legally ban gay marriages.

[ajmccarrell]

Scandalous! I lllllike it!:laugh: I do however think that the Dinosaur and the Barracuda has a catchy ring to it!

Did you read what the State Trooper did? He tazered his own 11 year old son, threatened to kill Palin's father, and he was caught drinking in his squad car. If the commissioner wasn't willing to fire a creep like that because of "code blue" I'd fire him too, if I didn't bring him up on charges first. Palin did the right thing. Why aren't the dems, who are so anti-domestic violence applauding this?! :shrug:

[ajmccarrell]

Bull****. If there's proof, let's see it. Put up or shut up. :rolleyes:
Also, a Google search produced nothing of note.

I found countless articles on her, besides, what she said was in confidence and a private conversation. The guy who also worked in her office that tried to persue it got fired. Besides, Clinton appointed her to begin with. Do yer own research, bucko! :D
Here's a google search, you'll see a ton of federal cases that she handled. So much for "nothing of note" ya hoser! http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=samantha+spangler+attorney

[David]

You can see how people might think that's NOT so much of a good idea. I think Alaskans are kind of out of touch with the rest of America. That's the vibe i got when I spent a year in Anchorage. It's not true of everyone there, obviously...Alaska has the best earthquakes & the best tsunamis of any state in the Union. :thumbsup:

[omigodstevie]

This might be considered jumping to conclusions, but I just think this was a very bone-headed move for him.

As smart as she might be, she's awfully inexperienced, and I just can't help but think to the possible future. Let's say theoretically that McCain gets elected, and due to the laws of nature, he doesn't, er, 'finish his term'. We'd be left with Palin running the country...that makes me nervous.

Plus his choice comes across as almost insulting to women voters. It's like he's trying to say that if there's a woman running with him, all the thoughtless little Democratic women will flock to him just because we're the same sex, and were totally relying on a female candidate.

Just my opinion :\

[BombaySapphire3]

I found countless articles on her, besides, what she said was in confidence and a private conversation. The guy who also worked in her office that tried to persue it got fired. Besides, Clinton appointed her to begin with. Do yer own research, bucko! :D
Here's a google search, you'll see a ton of federal cases that she handled. So much for "nothing of note" ya hoser! http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=samantha+spangler+attorney

Wow what a wild coincidence~! You have an aunt who is privy to information about proving Hillary Clinton killed Vince Foster and another one who happened to live in the tiny burg of Moose**** Alaska when Sarah Palin was mayor! Do you also perhaps have an aunt living in a cave in the Hindu Kush who knows the exact location of Bin Laden's hideout?!Or another aunt nearby Seattle who has actually met Bigfoot!Or could it be you even have an aunt that knows precisely where the WMDS are kept hidden in the Iraqi desert!!!Impressive.:laugh:

[Serrart]

This might be considered jumping to conclusions, but I just think this was a very bone-headed move for him.

As smart as she might be, she's awfully inexperienced, and I just can't help but think to the possible future. Let's say theoretically that McCain gets elected, and due to the laws of nature, he doesn't, er, 'finish his term'. We'd be left with Palin running the country...that makes me nervous.

Plus his choice comes across as almost insulting to women voters. It's like he's trying to say that if there's a woman running with him, all the thoughtless little Democratic women will flock to him just because we're the same sex, and were totally relying on a female candidate.

Just my opinion :\

I think he's made a masterful choice. The first effect is to have stolen all the first pages, and only one day after Democratic convention. There wold be tons of press about her now, all over the world. Even only to be mother of five and a governor with over a 90% of approval. I mean, does the lady sleep every once in a while?

She looks a very strong character and an intelligent woman, and seems to have all the characteristics that might reassure even the most conservatives among the Republicans. Hats off to McCain for the smart move. Obviously I hope they'll lose.

Romy

[skcin]

I'm by no means a Log Cabin Republican.. however I am a Republican and nothing could be more untrue than to say I hate myself! In fact I am probably guilty of loving myself and my "gayness" too much! ;) Why sould I be a Democrat when I agree with almost NOTHING they stand for?

Good Lord you have changed. You must be embarrassed by some of the ignorant **** you used to say here. But good for you, you seem very happy.

This might be considered jumping to conclusions, but I just think this was a very bone-headed move for him.

As smart as she might be, she's awfully inexperienced, and I just can't help but think to the possible future. Let's say theoretically that McCain gets elected, and due to the laws of nature, he doesn't, er, 'finish his term'. We'd be left with Palin running the country...that makes me nervous.

Plus his choice comes across as almost insulting to women voters. It's like he's trying to say that if there's a woman running with him, all the thoughtless little Democratic women will flock to him just because we're the same sex, and were totally relying on a female candidate.
Just my opinion :\

Problem is there ARE women who will vote for him now, soley because there's a woman on the ticket. :distress: Just like there are whites who will vote for McCain because he's white, blacks who will vote for Obama because he's half black, etc. Sad, but true. Ever since Hillary lost the nomination, we've heard some of her supporters talking about voting for McCain rather than Obama (which I still don't, for the life of me, understand - it's like it's just for spite.) This move will probably clinch it for them.

[The Chain]

Indeed. Alaska was one of the first states to legally ban gay marriages.

and the only to have legalized, in-home possesion/use of marijuana protected in our state constitution.
Perfect representation of the 50/5o split of political mindsets up here- the oil people/rednecks, and the true Alaskans:cool:

And I agree with what was said about some Alaskans being out of touch- we have a lot of indifferent youth and dumb hicks up here! But many of us are down to earth, laid back people who care very deeply about whats going on, not only in the US, but the entire world.

I honestly don't know what McCain was thinking with this Palin thing.
Either he is trying to mimic the historic nature of Obama's campain, or has hopefully realized the public does not want another 4 years of disaster, so he's given up taking this seriously ;)

[gldstwmn]

I found countless articles on her, besides, what she said was in confidence and a private conversation. ]

Then why are you running around telling people on the internet? Again, I could find nothing linking your friend to Vince Foster on Google.

[gldstwmn]

Wow what a wild coincidence~! You have an aunt who is privy to information about proving Hillary Clinton killed Vince Foster and another one who happened to live in the tiny burg of Moose**** Alaska when Sarah Palin was mayor! Do you also perhaps have an aunt living in a cave in the Hindu Kush who knows the exact location of Bin Laden's hideout?!Or another aunt nearby Seattle who has actually met Bigfoot!Or could it be you even have an aunt that knows precisely where the WMDS are kept hidden in the Iraqi desert!!!Impressive.:laugh:

Amen honey. Amen.

[David]

As smart as she might be, she's awfully inexperienced, and I just can't help but think to the possible future. On the other hand, what is "experience" really worth, anyway? I imagine that, in the lives of some, it's worth a great deal, but it doesn't benefit everyone. The suits that have been running the corporation I used to work for -- McClatchy -- all have plenty of "experience," but they still sank the company.

Personal characteristics -- integrity, intelligence, mordant wit, proper respect for my money -- are more important to me than what the CV says, especially in big politics. Actually, I'm generally disilussioned & perhaps even repulsed by the Newt Romneys & Mitt McCains on Capitol Hill -- all their hundreds of years of experience amount inevitably to pandering, corruption, & tyranny.

[JWS]

Countdown to the first person in the media to dismiss her for being in beauty pageants. A former football star wouldn't be dismissed, but she will be.

Jack Kemp.

[ajmccarrell]

Wow what a wild coincidence~! You have an aunt who is privy to information about proving Hillary Clinton killed Vince Foster and another one who happened to live in the tiny burg of Moose**** Alaska when Sarah Palin was mayor! Do you also perhaps have an aunt living in a cave in the Hindu Kush who knows the exact location of Bin Laden's hideout?!Or another aunt nearby Seattle who has actually met Bigfoot!Or could it be you even have an aunt that knows precisely where the WMDS are kept hidden in the Iraqi desert!!!Impressive.:laugh:

Yes, I do. My aunt Melanie lived in Walisa, AK because her husband was a homicide detective in Anchorage. I actually spent some time there as a teen. She died of MS in 1999. My aunt Samantha Spangler, who is not a blood relative, but she has been my mom's best friend for 40 years and shares my same birthday is an Assistant US Attorney in Sacramento. I have other relatives who are cops of various sorts. My mom used to be a lobbyist in the State of Washington. I have a great uncle who used to be a State Senator in Oklahoma. I have another great uncle on the other side of the family who played a show with Billy Ray Cyrus some 15 years ago. I, myself, live in Seattle, so i don't need to have an aunt there. :)

I think most people's families have some sort of notable connection. I have lots of relatives who do lots of things. I have family in lots of places because we're all spread out. So, what's your point?! :]

[ajmccarrell]

This might be considered jumping to conclusions, but I just think this was a very bone-headed move for him.

As smart as she might be, she's awfully inexperienced, and I just can't help but think to the possible future. Let's say theoretically that McCain gets elected, and due to the laws of nature, he doesn't, er, 'finish his term'. We'd be left with Palin running the country...that makes me nervous.

Plus his choice comes across as almost insulting to women voters. It's like he's trying to say that if there's a woman running with him, all the thoughtless little Democratic women will flock to him just because we're the same sex, and were totally relying on a female candidate.

Just my opinion :\

She, at least, has some accomplishments to run on, such as the reforms she's done. She's been in office only a month longer than Obama and has a much thicker list of accomplishments. All he's done is jockey himself into a position to be president. He hasn't actually accomplished anything.

[ajmccarrell]

Then why are you running around telling people on the internet? Again, I could find nothing linking your friend to Vince Foster on Google.

Do you actually listen or read?! I said what she said was a private conversation. She got her info from her office-mate, who at the time was Robert Mueller, who initially headed the investigation. She herself was not on it, but by virtue of sharing an office with the guy who was before he was ordered off for deeming it a homicide, she became well acquainted with it, as he often asked her opinion on things. Hmmm. Lawyers share information and ask for advice when they have cases, shocking! LOL! :shrug: With as many investigations that the Clinton's had going on, I'm surprised YOU don't have a relative who worked on one of the countless investigations. LOL!

[BombaySapphire3]

Yes, I do. My aunt Melanie lived in Walisa, AK because her husband was a homicide detective in Anchorage. I actually spent some time there as a teen. She died of MS in 1999. My aunt Samantha Spangler, who is not a blood relative, but she has been my mom's best friend for 40 years and shares my same birthday is an Assistant US Attorney in Sacramento. I have other relatives who are cops of various sorts. My mom used to be a lobbyist in the State of Washington. I have a great uncle who used to be a State Senator in Oklahoma. I have another great uncle on the other side of the family who played a show with Billy Ray Cyrus some 15 years ago. I, myself, live in Seattle, so i don't need to have an aunt there. :)

I think most people's families have some sort of notable connection. I have lots of relatives who do lots of things. I have family in lots of places because we're all spread out. So, what's your point?! :]

My point is that you are past straining credibility here .I knew full well you lived in Seattle it is in your profile.Billy Ray Cyrus woo hoo what a major talent!Now you are admitting the "aunt" with inside information about Hillary killing Vince Foster isn't even your aunt at all!!:laugh:delusional much?:lol:

[ajmccarrell]

My point is that you are past straining credibility here .I knew full well you lived in Seattle it is in your profile.Billy Ray Cyrus woo hoo what a major talent!Now you are admitting the "aunt" with inside information about Hillary killing Vince Foster isn't even your aunt at all!!:laugh:delusional much?:lol:

That WAS my point that Billy Ray Cyrus wasn't that big of a deal. If I had said all of the above, you would dismiss it as you have. Why is it beyond credibility that I had an aunt in Wasila and someone I grew up calling "auntie Sammie" that I refer to as my aunt that worked with a guy who ran the Vince Foster case beyond credibility? I'm sure you know people in podd situations. Both are true and you're an ass. If you don't believe it, fine. Screw you!

[BombaySapphire3]

That WAS my point that Billy Ray Cyrus wasn't that big of a deal. If I had said all of the above, you would dismiss it as you have. Why is it beyond credibility that I had an aunt in Wasila and someone I grew up calling "auntie Sammie" that I refer to as my aunt that worked with a guy who ran the Vince Foster case beyond credibility? I'm sure you know people in podd situations. Both are true and you're an ass. If you don't believe it, fine. Screw you!

It would appear I have touched a nerve. Funny how some folk's composure starts to crumble when the cracks in their fixed delusions begin to appear .:wavey:

[ajmccarrell]

It would appear I have touched a nerve. Funny how some folk's composure starts to crumble when the cracks in their fixed delusions begin to appear .:wavey:

No, it's just that you are a tasteless sack of crap. The aunt I referred to died on Thanksgiving. You did touch a nerve because you are denying the existence of a dead relative! You expect me to not be offended by that, you bit*h. Fine, you don't exist either. Yes, in my world Elvis lives with bigfoot in my trailer. What kind of a heartless sick person are you to toy with someone over their dead relative?! You make me want to vomit. You're not the one who stayed a month ith her grieving husband, who watched her wither away from MS, or any of those other things. Do you have a conscience?!

[BombaySapphire3]

No, it's just that you are a tasteless sack of crap. The aunt I referred to died on Thanksgiving. You did touch a nerve because you are denying the existence of a dead relative! You expect me to not be offended by that, you bit*h. Fine, you don't exist either.

I was referring more specifically to the "aunt" whom you later admitted was not even your aunt who knows all about Hillary killing Vince Foster..do you really expect any sane person to believe this ..again I can't recommend that cult deprograming I suggested earlier enough.

[ajmccarrell]

I was referring more specifically to the "aunt" whom you later admitted was not even your aunt who knows all about Hillary killing Vince Foster..do you really expect any sane person to believe this ..again I can't recommend that cult deprograming I suggested earlier enough.

LOL! I guess you realized you crossed the line. I guess lesbian liberals with hemorroid problems, that are dying of AIDS and throat cancer from performing oral sex on countless infected women with HPV, with gonorrhea, even can say sorry.

Anyway, the one you were referring to is named Samantha Spangler and she is an Assistant US Attorney. Google "Samantha Spangler, Attorney" and you'll come up with a ton of cases that she has handled. She obviously exists. If she spoke with a guy she worked with, who worked on the Vince Foster case, who thought Hillary killed Vince Foster, why is that beyond credibility, since they both worked for the Justice department? I'm sure you must never talk to your co-workers about problems either. Oh yeah, with you many ailments, you live on disability. Sorry, I forgot. She grew up in Sacramento, as did my mom. They both met at Alta Vista elementary. She was my godmother. I think you're just jealous, frankly. People that are jealous have to knock other people all the time. Frankly, if I was lying, I would have said someone much higher up than my aunt Sammie said something to me. I would have said that John Ashcroft was my uncle or something. No one has heard of Samantha Spangler.

Besides, my other aunt that is still living is a welfare queen married to a child molester. She doesn't have anything to say worth quoting. LOL!

[BombaySapphire3]

:LOL! I guess you realized you crossed the line. I guess lesbian liberals with hemorroid problems, that are dying of AIDS and throat cancer from performing oral sex on countless infected women with HPV, with gonorrhea, even can say sorry.

Anyway, the one you were referring to is named Samantha Spangler and she is an Assistant US Attorney. Google "Samantha Spangler, Attorney" and you'll come up with a ton of cases that she has handled. She obviously exists. If she spoke with a guy who thought Hillary killed Vince Foster, why is that beyond credibility, since she works for the Justice department? She grew up in Sacramento, as did my mom. They both met at Alta Vista elementary. She was my godmother. I think you're just jealous, frankly. People that are jealous have to knock other people all the time.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:ah now now the typical right wing homophobia rears it's head .I knew it was in there! and BTW no lesbian has ever been documented catching AIDS by oral sex:laugh:Lesbians are the lowest risk group for HIV of all.And thanks for proving my point about your overactive imagination as you are now responding to someone who you say does not even exist!:lol::lol::lol:

[ajmccarrell]

:

:laugh::laugh::laugh:ah now now the typical right wing homophobia rears it's head .I knew it was in there! and BTW no lesbian has ever been documented catching AIDS by oral sex:laugh:Lesbians are the lowest risk group for HIV of all.And thanks for proving my point about your overactive imagination as you are now responding to someone who you say does not even exist!:lol::lol::lol:

Typical liberal has no sense of humor! It was obviously a joke. Learn how to do this: :laugh: FYI I think lesbians are HOT!!! I just wish I could get my wife curious. LOL!

[BombaySapphire3]

Typical liberal has no sense of humor! It was obviously a joke. Learn how to do this: :laugh: FYI I think lesbians are HOT!!! I just wish I could get my wife curious. LOL!

I was laughing wasn't I?I have been in stiches throughout this interaction .You were the one who appears to have lost it.If I do say so myself.:D

[ajmccarrell]

I was laughing wasn't I?I have been in stiches throughout this interaction .You were the one who appears to have lost it.If I do say so myself.:D

How would you like it if I kept calling you a liar for no particular reason? I was telling the truth, my aunt did say that some years ago. You don't know me or anyone in my family. Why question me on things you could not be in a position to know. You're just some jerk who likes to stir up problems. Disagreement is fine, but you crossed more than a few lines of basic decency today.

[BombaySapphire3]

How would you like it if I kept calling you a liar for no particular reason? I was telling the truth, my aunt did say that some years ago. You don't know me or anyone in my family. Why question me on things you could not be in a position to know. You're just some jerk who likes to stir up problems. Disagreement is fine, but you crossed more than a few lines of basic decency today.

Sorry I'm just in a profession where I have to question things that push the boundaries of sanity and common sense ..just a habit that is difficult for me to suspend even when I'm not at work.

[ajmccarrell]

Sorry I'm just in a profession where I have to question things that push the boundaries of sanity and common sense ..just a habit that is difficult for me to suspend even when I'm not at work.

I understand, you have just pissed me off to no end today. It's okay, let's hug and make up. I'm sorry for being hard on you. :sorry:

[SteveMacD]

http://donutclan.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/retard.jpg


Just my $0.02 worth...


BTW, for the record, yes, the Nutter Center is located in Fairborn, but its mailing address is Dayton. 3640 Colonel Glenn Hwy, Dayton, OH 45324. The only reason I know this is that I'm a Dayton Bombers season ticket holder. I'd still like to know how they came up with that.

[LukeA]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Bza63nnqiKA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Bza63nnqiKA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[BombaySapphire3]

I understand, you have just pissed me off to no end today. It's okay, let's hug and make up. I'm sorry for being hard on you. :sorry:
No problem I wasn't upset at any point. I am pretty thick skinned to say the least.Even the lesbian insults didn't bother me but perhaps that is because I am a man..:laugh:

[TrueFaith77]

This is interesting. The Sarah Palin pick seems to be keeping things even-steven even after the convention.

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews1547.html

Biden didn't seem to boost Obama. I'm surprised about this though cuz Palin seems to be getting a beating in the news and the choice is being called a stunt. And Obama's speech is being called the greatest since Kennedy's inauguration. For the record, I thought Obama's speech was weird. Why didn't he mention Martin Luther King by name (or did I miss that?)? Does he really believe that if you work hard you can make your dreams come true in America? I don't like when anyone says that. (In contrast, Mrs. McCain attributing her wealth to her parents and saying that means she has a responsibility to that wealth strikes me as more... realistic.)

For the record, I am not a Republican. Not to get too personal, I've never even voted Republican (1996: Libertarian, 2000: Green, 2004: Democrat). My views are kinda weird. Example: I believe in gay marriage. But I oppose divorce. Another: I was moved and edified by Rev. Wright's speech that ended in that Q&A which lead to his public rejection by his "friend" -- that rejection was a horrible spectacle (is the media Obama's base?). This year, I feel like doing a write-in (maybe Hillary or someone else I've been meaning to write in for the last two elections) or maybe I'll just vote Nader again. . . but I hate to say this, Palin is intriguing me.

[gldstwmn]

Yes, I do. My aunt Melanie lived in Walisa, AK because her husband was a homicide detective in Anchorage. I actually spent some time there as a teen. She died of MS in 1999. My aunt Samantha Spangler, who is not a blood relative, but she has been my mom's best friend for 40 years and shares my same birthday is an Assistant US Attorney in Sacramento. I have other relatives who are cops of various sorts. My mom used to be a lobbyist in the State of Washington. I have a great uncle who used to be a State Senator in Oklahoma. I have another great uncle on the other side of the family who played a show with Billy Ray Cyrus some 15 years ago. I, myself, live in Seattle, so i don't need to have an aunt there. :)

I think most people's families have some sort of notable connection. I have lots of relatives who do lots of things. I have family in lots of places because we're all spread out. So, what's your point?! :]

What's your point? We're all supposed to bow down because your relatives (?) have the definitive line of information on things? Please. As far as sweeping generalizations and not knowing how the government works, you're in Washington state right? Project much? I'm going to tell you one more time. Unless you can credibly back up your political arguments and other statements on these threads none of the libruls are going to take you seriously. But I suspect you'll keep braying away anyway. Oh and congrats to your "uncle'" who played a professional gig with Billy Ray. I think he's a decent and humble man (Billy Ray, that is).

[gldstwmn]

Do you actually listen or read?! I said what she said was a private conversation. She got her info from her office-mate, who at the time was Robert Mueller, who initially headed the investigation. She herself was not on it, but by virtue of sharing an office with the guy who was before he was ordered off for deeming it a homicide, she became well acquainted with it, as he often asked her opinion on things. Hmmm. Lawyers share information and ask for advice when they have cases, shocking! LOL! :shrug: With as many investigations that the Clinton's had going on, I'm surprised YOU don't have a relative who worked on one of the countless investigations. LOL!

My point was that you have no credible source to confirm what you're saying. You have what your lawyer friends call hearsay. What was the name of that cult you were in again? Are you a Moonie?

[gldstwmn]

No, it's just that you are a tasteless sack of crap. The aunt I referred to died on Thanksgiving. You did touch a nerve because you are denying the existence of a dead relative! You expect me to not be offended by that, you bit*h. Fine, you don't exist either. Yes, in my world Elvis lives with bigfoot in my trailer. What kind of a heartless sick person are you to toy with someone over their dead relative?! You make me want to vomit. You're not the one who stayed a month ith her grieving husband, who watched her wither away from MS, or any of those other things. Do you have a conscience?!

:rolleyes: I'm a victim! I'm a victim! I'm a victim!

Can't make a credible argument so you pull this **** out. Your debating skills suck.

My condolences to your family on their loss.

[gldstwmn]

LOL! I guess you realized you crossed the line. I guess lesbian liberals with hemorroid problems, that are dying of AIDS and throat cancer from performing oral sex on countless infected women with HPV, with gonorrhea, even can say sorry.



This is ugly, homophobic and a personal attack. :distress:

[gldstwmn]

Typical liberal has no sense of humor! It was obviously a joke. Learn how to do this: :laugh: FYI I think lesbians are HOT!!! I just wish I could get my wife curious. LOL!

It's not funny. My condolences to your wife.

[gldstwmn]

How would you like it if I kept calling you a liar for no particular reason? I was telling the truth, my aunt did say that some years ago. You don't know me or anyone in my family. Why question me on things you could not be in a position to know. You're just some jerk who likes to stir up problems. Disagreement is fine, but you crossed more than a few lines of basic decency today.

I don't think anyone is calling you a liar. You are guilty of being unable to present a factually sourced argument. For that, we'll eat your lunch and call you on your bs every time. :lol:

[Richard B]

And Obama's speech is being called the greatest since Kennedy's inauguration. For the record, I thought Obama's speech was weird.

Obama's head writer is one of the main writers for the TV show West Wing.
Go figure.

[gldstwmn]

I understand, you have just pissed me off to no end today. It's okay, let's hug and make up. I'm sorry for being hard on you. :sorry:

You need to take the emotion out of the equation and learn to debate things factually.

[gldstwmn]

http://donutclan.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/retard.jpg




I can't see this. :(

[gldstwmn]

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Lolz. :] :lol:

[gldstwmn]

No problem I wasn't upset at any point. I am pretty thick skinned to say the least.Even the lesbian insults didn't bother me but perhaps that is because I am a man..:laugh:

:laugh: :laugh: What's that wooshing sound I hear?

[Musicman408]

Obama's head writer is one of the main writers for the TV show West Wing.
Go figure.

Obama wrote his acceptance speech if I am not mistaken.:nod:

[BombaySapphire3]

This is ugly, homophobic and a personal attack. :distress:

With all that animosity toward lesbians and liberals I was wondering if someone could check his ISP number to see if it was in a Cranford New Jersey basement..it has been awhile since the Arizona Ranger last put in an appearance here.:lol::lol::lol:

[ajmccarrell]

You need to take the emotion out of the equation and learn to debate things factually.

Even when I do, you ignore it anyway. I provide articles, reports, textbooks, experts, etc for MOST of what I say. The one time I quote a relative's opinion, you hop all over me like some vicious hound. Come up with experts yourself. I never said anyone was supposded to bow down to anyone for anything, just that she is an insider in the Justice Department and thought that the the Foster case was a homicide. Now, did I say anything about anyone bowing down? No, you did. Did I say she was superior? No, you did. Did I say anything about bigfoot? Didn't you also just slam my wife for not being into lesbianism? You did. Who is being emotional here and twisting things? I just said what I did about Samantha because I thought you might find it interesting. Apparently, all you find interesting are slogans for "hope & change" as long as someone else foots the bill. LOL! :thumbsup:

[ajmccarrell]

With all that animosity toward lesbians and liberals I was wondering if someone could check his ISP number to see if it was in a Cranford New Jersey basement..it has been awhile since the Arizona Ranger last put in an appearance here.:lol::lol::lol:

Nope, Mountlake Terrace, Washington. I don't live in a basement either, I am building a home in Lake Stevens. I do quite well, which is why I want to keep my money, instead of giving it to people who nurse the public tit. It wasn't very long ago (2003) that I wasn't doing well, so I don't see why I should have to sacrifice my hard earned success so quickly.

I have no animosity towards lesbians. Like I said, I wish my wife swung that direction. LOL!

I do have animosity towards liberals however. Not personally, just against the ideology. I think Marxism is a much more accurate description of the ideas than is "liberalism" or being "progressive".

[ajmccarrell]

I don't think anyone is calling you a liar. You are guilty of being unable to present a factually sourced argument. For that, we'll eat your lunch and call you on your bs every time. :lol:

Like I said in the original post, "my aunt said". It was never meant to be anything more than hearsay, just that it was more credible than not. If you recall, we are on a Fleetwood Mac posting, not a court of law. Stop taking yourself so seriously and remember where you are, which is an open air discussion about various things. It's online for Christ's sake, but you are treating me like you're charging me with purjury for expressing what someone else told me. I never suggested it was anything more than that. Some people just need to pull the rod out of their asses.

[BombaySapphire3]

Did I say anything about bigfoot? Didn't you also just slam my wife for not being into lesbianism?

She didn't say anything about Bigfoot either. Check the source it was me.Nor was she slamming your wife for not being into lesbiasism rather she was offering her condolences to your wife for you trying to get her into lesbianism or her choice in marriage partners or both .I''m not 100% certain which.

[ajmccarrell]

What's your point? We're all supposed to bow down because your relatives (?) have the definitive line of information on things? Please. As far as sweeping generalizations and not knowing how the government works, you're in Washington state right? Project much? I'm going to tell you one more time. Unless you can credibly back up your political arguments and other statements on these threads none of the libruls are going to take you seriously. But I suspect you'll keep braying away anyway. Oh and congrats to your "uncle'" who played a professional gig with Billy Ray. I think he's a decent and humble man (Billy Ray, that is).

No one is going to take you seriously if you can't spell anyway. Use spellcheck for God's sake. Like I said in my original posting, "my aunt said". Nothing more. If you don't find her credible, fine. Keep it to yourself. There is no reason to attack me over it. You're just acting like a bellicose jerk with sour grapes. Yes, Billy Ray Cyrus seems to be a nice guy from what they said. My point in bringing him up is that lots of people in lots of families do interesting things. None of it is all that major. I regurgitated an opinion that my aunt expressed, as she was closer to the goings on than the general public. If you have a problem with that, take it elsewhere because I wasn't addressing you anyway. I never claimed it to be 100% factual, I only claimed it was her opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. YOU are the one who decided I meant more than I said. I guess you just still have sour grapes over Hillary not being vetted. Go get therapy somewhere, it will do you good.

[ajmccarrell]

She didn't say anything about Bigfoot either. Check the source it was me.Nor was she slamming your wife for not being into lesbiasism rather she was offering her condolences to your wife for you trying to get her into lesbianism or her choice in marriage partners or both .I''m not 100% certain which.

Why are you expressing an opinion on what someone else posted? Were you in their head? No. Stick to your own posts and those that address you unless you are invited to do otherwise. :lol:

[ajmccarrell]

:rolleyes: I'm a victim! I'm a victim! I'm a victim!

Can't make a credible argument so you pull this **** out. Your debating skills suck.

My condolences to your family on their loss.

It is impossible to prove a negative, as you would know had you been properly educated. I cannot prove my aunt is my aunt on an online board, so shut up. I let it go, why the hell do you need to bring it back up again? I wasn't even addressing you, so again, shut up.

[ajmccarrell]

My point was that you have no credible source to confirm what you're saying. You have what your lawyer friends call hearsay. What was the name of that cult you were in again? Are you a Moonie?

Just more typical liberal personal attacks in a conversation they weren't part of. I never claimed her opinion was anything but her opinion. Why do you want to argue over what someone else's opinion was and call me wrong about it? You're just picking fights. You must be a very angry and very sad person. Were you one of those people who started a Gore Loss grieving group? I recall an article I read in 2001 where supporters of Gore would get together and talk about their anger and depression. You strike me as one of those people. :laugh:

FYI it was some weird Baptist Homeschooling thing, not Moonies. Either way, they were just as weird.

[BombaySapphire3]

Why are you expressing an opinion on what someone else posted? Were you in their head? No. Stick to your own posts and those that address you unless you are invited to do otherwise. :lol:

You accused her of bringing up Bigfoot in this thread which is easy to prove she did not do. It is not subjective .Nor did she slam your wife for not being into lesbianism that is clear as well ..your reading comprehension seems a bit off.And who are you to tell me what and where I can and cannot post?Megalomanical much?

[ajmccarrell]

You accused her of bringing up Bigfoot in this thread which is easy to prove she did not do. It is not subjective .Nor did she slam your wife for not being into lesbianism that is clear as well ..your reading comprehension seems a bit off.And who are you to tell me what and where I can and cannot post?Megalomanical much?

Because you add nothing to the conversation. We had already resolved and here you are dredging it back up again, because you want to pick a fight with me. You don't me or my views and you just want to argue. Again, you were not invited into this argument, as the moderator already suggested that it be closed. Pick a fight with someone else. I won't let you ruin my day for me any more than you have.

[BombaySapphire3]

Because you add nothing to the conversation. We had already resolved and here you are dredging it back up again, because you want to pick a fight with me. You don't me or my views and you just want to argue. Again, you were not invited into this argument, as the moderator already suggested that it be closed. Pick a fight with someone else. I won't let you ruin my day for me any more than you have.

Well why then did you not take the moderator's suggestion and cease your part of the argument?I was also not discussing the "aunt" issue anymore I was responding to untrue statements you made regarding the posting of another member of longstanding on this board.As as you just said this is a forum on a Fleetwood Mac board so why are you investing so much in it and what I say that you are allowing it to "ruin" your day.If you didn't want to argue you wouldn't keep returning to perpetuate the argument.Really you just don't make alot of sense.

[estranged4life]

it has been awhile since the Arizona Ranger last put in an appearance here.:lol::lol::lol:

Arizona Ranger registering on the magnificent message board of metalsludge.tv awhile back, Man let's say he was the injured bleeding fish and the regular members were the piranhas - He didnt last long in that environment (Lets make this comparison of the brutality of debates of each messageboard - The Ledge=Black cat firecracker...MetalSludge=The combined nuclear arsenal of the US & Russia)

[BombaySapphire3]

Arizona Ranger registering on the magnificent message board of metalsludge.tv awhile back, Man let's say he was the injured bleeding fish and the regular members were the piranhas - He didnt last long in that environment (Lets make this comparison of the brutality of debates of each messageboard - The Ledge=Black cat firecracker...MetalSludge=The combined nuclear arsenal of the US & Russia)
That individual is a piece of work who will never learn .What can you say about someone that once had an entire board pretty much devoted to him and his wacky antics.He had a similar experience on the Black Vault site during and after he was booted from here and will comtinue to have such as long as there is computer access in the public libraries of New Jersey although by now he has probably had to branch out to NYC and Philly.:laugh:

[Stephanie]

Not really, because she isn't running for president, she's basically running for the presidential internship position. You CAN have on the job training for that, whereas it's McCain vs. Obama. If Palin were the nominee for president, you'd have a point. Personally, the democratic ticket looks backwards to me. Whatever you think of Biden, he HAS the experience. Why he's playing second fiddle to a guy whose only national experience consists of 144 days in the Senate is beyond me.

Also, a major difference between Palin and Obama is that she has as much Executive experience as Obama has Legislative experience. Obama has never run anything for ANY length of time. As a governor, you run a state. As a senator, you run your own office and that's it. The two kinds of experience are worlds apart.

you are always saying what I am thinking. I know here I will be in the minority, but I quite like her. I am a big fan of birth control so I don't argue with her there. And the guns, shes a cool chic.

[LukeA]

you are always saying what I am thinking. I know here I will be in the minority, but I quite like her. I am a big fan of birth control so I don't argue with her there.

There's a difference between the concept of birth control and the banning of abortion even in cases of rape & incest (which Palin enthusiastically supports).

If you're cool with that, then, okay. But lets not equate prophylactic birth control with faith-based government ordained bodily control.

[gldstwmn]

Even when I do, you ignore it anyway. I provide articles, reports, textbooks, experts, etc for MOST of what I say. The one time I quote a relative's opinion, you hop all over me like some vicious hound. Come up with experts yourself. I never said anyone was supposded to bow down to anyone for anything, just that she is an insider in the Justice Department and thought that the the Foster case was a homicide. Now, did I say anything about anyone bowing down? No, you did. Did I say she was superior? No, you did. Did I say anything about bigfoot? Didn't you also just slam my wife for not being into lesbianism? You did. Who is being emotional here and twisting things? I just said what I did about Samantha because I thought you might find it interesting. Apparently, all you find interesting are slogans for "hope & change" as long as someone else foots the bill. LOL! :thumbsup:

No on all counts.

[gldstwmn]

Like I said in the original post, "my aunt said". It was never meant to be anything more than hearsay, just that it was more credible than not. If you recall, we are on a Fleetwood Mac posting, not a court of law. Stop taking yourself so seriously and remember where you are, which is an open air discussion about various things. It's online for Christ's sake, but you are treating me like you're charging me with purjury for expressing what someone else told me. I never suggested it was anything more than that. Some people just need to pull the rod out of their asses.

It's perjury, Einstein. :rolleyes: Don't get pissy with me because you can't hold your own in a debate.

[gldstwmn]

She didn't say anything about Bigfoot either. Check the source it was me.Nor was she slamming your wife for not being into lesbiasism rather she was offering her condolences to your wife for you trying to get her into lesbianism or her choice in marriage partners or both .I''m not 100% certain which.

Apparently you and I are some kind of lesbain amalgamation that believes in slogans of hope and change and something else about "purjury." :laugh:
I'll leave the condolences comment open to interpretation. ;) :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

No one is going to take you seriously if you can't spell anyway.

No ****. :cool:

[Ledge Moderators]

We appreciate the boisterous debates that have been conducted in this forum, especially in political threads like this one. This kind of exchange is often informative, entertaining and cathartic, especially during a hard fought election year like this one.

Recently though there have been some personal attacks launched that have nothing to do with the subject matter at hand. Furthermore, they are insulting at large, offending people who are not even involved in the discussion. These type of attacks will not be tolerated. They have resulted in a temporary ban. It's important to note that the passionate debate is welcome here. The personal namecalling is not.

[gldstwmn]

Enough said. Can we get back on topic of Sarah Palin now? This chick has some icky politics. And I'm disturbed about the story of her getting on a plane to Alaska after her water broke.
Things aren't looking so good for the Repubs and their convention right now.
And Strandie, you have been scarce since this whole Gustav thing started. Is the family okay?

[TrueFaith77]

This chick has some icky politics.

What icky politics?

I need to do some research on her.

[BombaySapphire3]

What icky politics?

I need to do some research on her.

Well if she does end up President..which if they win is a good possiblity given McCain's age and health history it is almost certain Roe vs Wade wold be overturned and all the efforts local law enforcement agencies like the Oakland PD out here have done to curtail rampant gun ownership in the community will likely be undone and that is just the tip of the iceberg.There are reasons why the far religious right are dancing in the streets over her .Hasn't eight years of religiously peoccupied neo-cons been enough?

[BombaySapphire3]

Apparently Sarah can't even teach the basics of birth control to her own high school age daughter ..The unmarried 17 year old is preggers.What a wackadoodle!:lol:

[gldstwmn]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/01/palin.daughter/index.html

Teen daughter of GOP VP pick is pregnant

ST. PAUL, Minnesota (CNN) -- Bristol Palin, the 17-year-old daughter of Sarah Palin, is pregnant and will keep the baby and marry the father, a senior aide to Sen. John McCain confirmed to CNN Tuesday.

Republican presidential candidate McCain was aware of Bristol Palin's pregnancy before he chose her mother for his running mate, the aide said.

"Senator McCain knew this and felt in no way did it disqualify her from being vice president," said the aide. "Families have difficulties sometimes, and lucky for her she has a supportive family."

The 17-year-old, a senior in high school, is about five months along, in her second trimester, according to the aide.

The aide said it was decided the campaign would reveal this information now because of rampant Internet rumors that Sarah Palin's 4-month-old baby, who has Down syndrome, was actually Bristol's.

"In the course of correcting that, we needed to get the truth out," said the McCain aide.

Sarah and Todd Palin issued a statement saying they are "proud of Bristol's decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents."

"We have been blessed with five wonderful children who we love with all our heart and mean everything to us," the statement said. "Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned."

"Bristol and the young man she will marry are going to realize very quickly the difficulties of raising a child, which is why they will have the love and support of our entire family," the statement said.

The Palins also asked the media to respect their daughter's privacy.

The McCain aide insisted a key point to keep in mind is that Bristol decided to keep the baby, a decision "supported by her parents."

[gldstwmn]

What icky politics?

I need to do some research on her.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Sarah_Palin.htm

[BombaySapphire3]

Sarah wants to dictate what other women do with their own bodies and can't even teach her underage daughter the basics of birth control?!Yeah just what we need ..She is beginning to make Smirky seem smart..or maybe not.:laugh:

[BombaySapphire3]

ST. PAUL, Minnesota (CNN) -- Bristol Palin, the 17-year-old daughter of Sarah Palin, is pregnant and will keep the baby and marry the father.


Marry the father?I guess that is where all those big moose huntin guns come in handy.:laugh::laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Here's the post on Daily Kos that talks about the first baby, Trig. In the photos on Kos, Bristol is clearly pregnant. Sarah Palin is not. That baby is her grandchild, not her child. And her abstinence only educated 17 year old daughter is now pregnant aqgain for the second time in her young life. It's quite an eye opener about Sarah Palin. What a bonehead move by the McCain camp in nominating her.

http://dailykos.com/story/2008/8/30/121350/137/486/580223

[David]

http://www.ontheissues.org/Sarah_Palin.htm
Hmm...
I like some of her views & dislike others. Like just about everybody, some of her views contradict others, inherently or by extension. For example, she deplores the idea of allowing bureaucrats to dictate medical treatment options to physicians, yet she apparently encourages the idea of allowing bureaucrats to dictate to biologists to teach ID.

She said she wants tougher sentences on violent criminals, but doesn't specify. I want an across-the-board three-factor increase in sentences: If the sentence for rape or assault is seven years, make it 21 years.

[gldstwmn]

The bad outweighs the good with her, IMO. And I believe she lied about being pregnant. That baby is her daughter's.

[gldstwmn]

Sarah wants to dictate what other women do with their own bodies and can't even teach her underage daughter the basics of birth control?!Yeah just what we need ..She is beginning to make Smirky seem smart..or maybe not.:laugh:

Check out the link I posted to the story and photos on Kos, if you haven't already. It's a doozy.

[gldstwmn]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Palin_opposed_sexed.html?showall

Palin opposed sex-ed

Sarah Palin's personal story, and her views on personal morality, are at the core of her politics and of why she was nominated, and why she'd energized the conservative base.

Now, her daughter's pregnancy has cast her views on teenagers and sex directly into the spotlight.

Democrats noted, before and after today's announcement, that Palin took a hard line on a question in 2006 from the conservative Eagle Forum Alaska:

Q: Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?

SP: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.

Palin also opposes abortion in cases like her daughter's, and in harder cases.

"We're proud of Bristol's decision to have her baby," she and her husband said in a statement. Unsaid in the statement is that Palin, based on her past views, would prefer that her daughter not be given a choice.

"I am pro-life. With the exception of a doctor’s determination that the mother’s life would end if the pregnancy continued. I believe that no matter what mistakes we make as a society, we cannot condone ending an innocent’s life," Palin said in the same questionnaire.

When an Alaska court last year overturned the state's law mandating parental consent for minors to have abortions, Palin criticized the ruling and suggested parental consent be instituted by constitutional amendment.

[BombaySapphire3]

Sweet Jeezus..What was McCain thinking..I hate to say but I think the old boy may be getting a tad senile.

[gldstwmn]

Sweet Jeezus..What was McCain thinking..I hate to say but I think the old boy may be getting a tad senile.

Oh man. The next two months are going to be f-u-n. :lol: This governor chick is a gift to the Dems. Thanks gramps!

[David]

The bad outweighs the good with her, IMO. And I believe she lied about being pregnant. That baby is her daughter's.They've done DNA testing or something?

[Stephanie]

There's a difference between the concept of birth control and the banning of abortion even in cases of rape & incest (which Palin enthusiastically supports).

If you're cool with that, then, okay. But lets not equate prophylactic birth control with faith-based government ordained bodily control.

I am a doctor in a college town. Here, 99% of abortions are college girls seeking after the fact birth control. And I bet we are not the only place like this.

[gldstwmn]

They've done DNA testing or something?

No. And there never will be. You know that. That's how these people roll. I'm just saying I don't think Governor Palin had that baby. I think it's her grandchild.

[gldstwmn]

I am a doctor in a college town. Here, 99% of abortions are college girls seeking after the fact birth control. And I bet we are not the only place like this.

Is the morning after pill available in your area? Are you saying we should ban abortion to teach these women a lesson?

[Stephanie]

Is the morning after pill available in your area? Are you saying we should ban abortion to teach these women a lesson?

There are so many multiple offenders, over and over again so they are not learning any lesson. They could get the pill (or pill combo-its a normal BCP taken in a specific way so it is available anywhere). But they just "take care of it' over and over. I don't think they should be having abortions as post-fact birth control. I am 10 weeks pregnant and I saw my baby's heart beat last week, and 10 weeks is a fairly normal time for abortion. The baby looked like a real baby already, and I can not fathom electing to take its life. Late term abortions look like preemies when they go in the garbage. So sad.

Incest, rape, and mother's health make up only a very small proportion, but in that small proportion I think it is morally ok. But when you could just get a norplant, there is no excuse.

[jannieC]

You would think that given my circumstances (inability to get pregnant, etc), I would be a staunch pro-lifer and I'm not. I believe in women having the right to make their own decisions. However, those decisions should and must be made early on. Late term abortion is heinous, imo. I don't believe in abortion as a method of birth control AT ALL Birth control is so readily available, but people (particularly young people) believe that they are invincible and that bad things won't happen to them. Of course it's stupid thinking, but it is what it is. It's my understanding that Sarah Palin is against abortion under any circumstances, including incest and rape, and that is just amazing, coming from a woman.

[ashton]

No. And there never will be. You know that. That's how these people roll. I'm just saying I don't think Governor Palin had that baby. I think it's her grandchild.

I read this somewhere and didn't really believe it at first. Something about the whole Palin story is very odd. I have never met or heard of a woman who had a child and within six months wanted to take on a job that would pretty much keep her away from that child for years. Many women work after having a baby, but I don't know of any that make career choices that are so dramatic and require them to move far away and be in such a high-profile position that could have her out of the country. Not that this disqualifies a woman or is neccesarily a fault, I just think that the vast majority of women would not want to take on such a huge and long-term change for all the money in the world. Add to this that the child is a special needs child and it seems very odd.

While I am not a mother, I would think that most women would never want to go through a campaign, media focus, move to Washington, and then have a job that has long hours and is somewhat dangerous, with a newborn.

I would be curious to hear what mothers have to say on the issue. If I came across as somewhat sexist, I didn't mean to do so. My point is not that a mother should be eliminated from running, just that I find it odd that they would have any interest in being the VP with a young child.

[David]

No. And there never will be. You know that. That's how these people roll. I'm just saying I don't think Governor Palin had that baby. I think it's her grandchild.Reminds me of the old Bette Davis vehicle THE GREAT LIE. Davis & Mary Astor lie to George Brent about the maternity of his baby.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/f/f1/20070615154321!Bette_Davis_in_The_Great_Lie_trailer.jpg

[Stephanie]

You would think that given my circumstances (inability to get pregnant, etc), I would be a staunch pro-lifer and I'm not. I believe in women having the right to make their own decisions. However, those decisions should and must be made early on. Late term abortion is heinous, imo. I don't believe in abortion as a method of birth control AT ALL Birth control is so readily available, but people (particularly young people) believe that they are invincible and that bad things won't happen to them. Of course it's stupid thinking, but it is what it is. It's my understanding that Sarah Palin is against abortion under any circumstances, including incest and rape, and that is just amazing, coming from a woman.

I can't remember what the source was, but she had circumstances where it is ok.

[estranged4life]

Oh man. The next two months are going to be f-u-n. :lol:

the First Round of the MLB playoffs, the NLCS & ALCS and then the World Series in late October - After that my TV will be off due to lack of ANY entertainment on TV. :D

As for abortion "Why when it is a human it's a fetus, but with a chicken it's an omelet?" I think it should be a woman's choice - not a choice made by some judge or guy in Washington in a black suit.

[gldstwmn]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html

Members of 'Fringe' Alaskan Independence Party Say Palin Was a Member in 90s
September 01, 2008 6:52 PM

The campaign of Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., likes to herald the independence of its new running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin.

Officials of the Alaskan Independence Party say that Palin was once so independent, she was once a member of their party, which, since the 1970s, has been pushing for a legal vote for Alaskans to decide whether or not residents of the 49th state can secede from the United States.

And while McCain's motto -- as seen in a new TV ad -- is "Country First," the AIP's motto is the exact opposite -- "Alaska First -- Alaska Always."

Lynette Clark, the chairman of the AIP, tells ABC News that Palin and her husband Todd were members in 1994, even attending the 1994 statewide convention in Wasilla. Clark was AIP secretary at the time.

"We are a state's rights party," says Clark, a self-employed goldminer. The AIP has "a plank that challenges the legality of the Alaskan statehood vote as illegal and in violation of United Nations charter and international law."

She says it's not accurate to describe the party as secessionist -- they just want a vote, she says, adding that the members of the AIP hold different opinions on what Alaska should be.

"My own separate opinion as an individual is that we should be an independent nation," Clark says. Others in the AIP "believe that being a commonwealth would be a good avenue to follow." Some advocate statehood -- but a fuller statehood than exists now.

She doesn't know what Palin's position was.

"It never came up in conversation," Clark recalls. "But when she joined the party, our platform was right under her nose."

Clark says that Palin left the party and became a Republican in 1996, when she first ran for mayor of Wasilla.

The McCain-Palin campaign did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

The AIP platform states that the purpose of the party is to "seek the complete repatriation of the public lands, held by the federal government, to the state and people of Alaska in conformance with Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17, of the federal constitution ... To prohibit all bureaucratic regulations and judicial rulings purporting to have the effect of law, except that which shall be approved by the elected legislature ... To support the privatization of government services ...”

Walter Hickel, a former Republican governor, was elected to the governorship in 1990 as an AIP member -- the third-largest party in Alaska -- with a plurality vote of 38.8%. A Seattle Post-Intelligencer story that year said that "Hickel is running with the Alaska Independence Party, a fringe group advocating that the 49th state declare itself a sovereign nation. But he's not a separatist; he's an opportunist: the Independence Party was the only 11th-hour ticket to the general election."

Hickel returned to the Republican Party in 1994; he endorsed Palin in her gubernatorial run in 2006. Subsequent AIP gubernatorial candidates did not fare as well as did Hickel, garnering less than 2 percent of the vote.

Earlier this year, Palin sent a video message to the AIP for its annual convention, where AIP vice chair George Clark told the small crowd that Palin "was an AIP member before she got the job as a mayor of a small town –- that was a non-partisan job. But you get along to go along -– she eventually joined the Republican Party, where she had all kinds of problems with their ethics, and well, I won’t go into that. She also had about an 80 percent approval rating, and is pretty well sympathetic to her former membership."

Lynette Clark says that Palin is "a fine individual. She's forthright and she puts Alaska first."

She is not a fan of McCain.

"I can't understand why in God's name she has aligned herself with a candidate who opposes the development of our republic and Alaska's resource wealth," Clark says.

[gldstwmn]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02vetting.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2

Disclosures on Palin Raise Questions on Vetting Process

ST. PAUL — A series of disclosures about Gov. Sarah Palin, Senator John McCain’s choice as running mate, called into question on Monday how thoroughly Mr. McCain had examined her background before putting her on the Republican presidential ticket.

On Monday morning, Ms. Palin and her husband, Todd, issued a statement saying that their 17-year-old unmarried daughter, Bristol, was five months pregnant and that she intended to marry the father.

Among other less attention-grabbing news of the day: it was learned that Ms. Palin now has a private lawyer in a legislative ethics investigation in Alaska into whether she abused her power in dismissing the state’s public safety commissioner; that she was a member for two years in the 1990s of the Alaska Independence Party, which has at times sought a vote on whether the state should secede; and that Mr. Palin was arrested 22 years ago on a drunken-driving charge.

Aides to Mr. McCain said they had a team on the ground in Alaska now to look more thoroughly into Ms. Palin’s background. A Republican with ties to the campaign said the team assigned to vet Ms. Palin in Alaska had not arrived there until Thursday, a day before Mr. McCain stunned the political world with his vice-presidential choice. The campaign was still calling Republican operatives as late as Sunday night asking them to go to Alaska to deal with the unexpected candidacy of Ms. Palin.

Although the McCain campaign said that Mr. McCain had known about Bristol Palin’s pregnancy before he asked her mother to join him on the ticket and that he did not consider it disqualifying, top aides were vague on Monday about how and when he had learned of the pregnancy, and from whom.

While there was no sign that her formal nomination this week was in jeopardy, the questions swirling around Ms. Palin on the first day of the Republican National Convention, already disrupted by Hurricane Gustav, brought anxiety to Republicans who worried that Democrats would use the selection of Ms. Palin to question Mr. McCain’s judgment and his ability to make crucial decisions.

At the least, Republicans close to the campaign said it was increasingly apparent that Ms. Palin had been selected as Mr. McCain’s running mate with more haste than McCain advisers initially described.

Up until midweek last week, some 48 to 72 hours before Mr. McCain introduced Ms. Palin at a Friday rally in Dayton, Ohio, Mr. McCain was still holding out the hope that he could choose a good friend, Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, independent of Connecticut, a Republican close to the campaign said. Mr. McCain had also been interested in another favorite, former Gov. Tom Ridge of Pennsylvania.

But both men favor abortion rights, anathema to the Christian conservatives who make up a crucial base of the Republican Party. As word leaked out that Mr. McCain was seriously considering the men, the campaign was bombarded by outrage from influential conservatives who predicted an explosive floor fight at the convention and vowed rejection of Mr. Ridge or Mr. Lieberman by the delegates.

Perhaps more important, several Republicans said, Mr. McCain was getting advice that if he did not do something to shake up the race, his campaign would be stuck on a potentially losing trajectory.

With time running out — and as Mr. McCain discarded two safer choices, Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota and former Gov. Mitt Romney of Massachusetts, as too predictable — he turned to Ms. Palin. He had his first face-to-face interview with her on Thursday and offered her the job moments later. Advisers to Mr. Pawlenty and another of the finalists on Mr. McCain’s list described an intensive vetting process for those candidates that lasted one to two months.

“They didn’t seriously consider her until four or five days from the time she was picked, before she was asked, maybe the Thursday or Friday before,” said a Republican close to the campaign. “This was really kind of rushed at the end, because John didn’t get what he wanted. He wanted to do Joe or Ridge.”

In the final stages, two Republicans familiar with the process said, Mr. McCain’s campaign manager, Rick Davis, emerged as a key advocate for Ms. Palin.

Mr. McCain’s advisers said repeatedly on Monday that Ms. Palin was “thoroughly vetted,” a process that would have included a review of all financial and legal records as well as a criminal background check. A McCain aide said the campaign was well aware of the ethics investigation and had looked into it.

“It was obviously something that anybody Googling Sarah Palin knew was in the news and there was a very thorough vetting done on that and also on the daughter,” the aide said.

People familiar with the process said Ms. Palin had responded to a standard form with more than 70 questions. Although The Washington Post quoted advisers to Mr. McCain on Sunday as saying Ms. Palin had been subjected to an F.B.I. background check, an F.B.I. official said Monday the bureau did not vet potential candidates and had not known of her selection until it was made public.

Mark Salter, Mr. McCain’s closest adviser, said in an e-mail message that Ms. Palin had been interviewed by Arthur B. Culvahouse Jr., a veteran Washington lawyer in charge of the vice-presidential vetting process for Mr. McCain, as well as by other lawyers who worked for Mr. Culvahouse. Mr. Salter did not respond to an e-mail message asking if Ms. Palin had told Mr. Culvahouse and his lawyers that her daughter was pregnant.

In Alaska, several state leaders and local officials said they knew of no efforts by the McCain campaign to find out more information about Ms. Palin before the announcement of her selection, Although campaigns are typically discreet when they make inquiries into potential running mates, officials in Alaska said Monday they thought it was peculiar that no one in the state had the slightest hint that Ms. Palin might be under consideration.

“They didn’t speak to anyone in the Legislature, they didn’t speak to anyone in the business community,” said Lyda Green, the State Senate president, who lives in Wasilla, where Ms. Palin served as mayor.

Representative Gail Phillips, a Republican and former speaker of the State House, said the widespread surprise in Alaska when Ms. Palin was named to the ticket made her wonder how intensively the McCain campaign had vetted her.

“I started calling around and asking, and I have not been able to find one person that was called,” Ms. Phillips said. “I called 30 to 40 people, political leaders, business leaders, community leaders. Not one of them had heard. Alaska is a very small community, we know people all over, but I haven’t found anybody who was asked anything.”

The current mayor of Wasilla, Dianne M. Keller, said she had not heard of any efforts to look into Ms. Palin’s background. And Randy Ruedrich, the state Republican Party chairman, said he knew nothing of any vetting that had been conducted.

State Senator Hollis French, a Democrat who is directing the ethics investigation, said that no one asked him about the allegations. “I heard not a word, not a single contact,” he said.

A number of Republicans said the McCain campaign had to some degree tied its hands in its effort to keep the selection process so secret.

“If you really want it to be a surprise, the circle of people that you’re going to allow to know about it is going to be small, and that’s just the nature of it,” said Dan Bartlett, a former counselor to President Bush.

Former McCain strategists disagreed on whether it would have been useful for Ms. Palin’s name to have been more publicly floated before her selection so that issues like the trooper investigation and her daughter’s pregnancy might have already been aired and not seemed so new at the time of her announcement.

“It’s a risk,” said Dan Schnur, a former McCain aide who now directs the Jesse M. Unruh Institute of Politics at the University of Southern California. “No matter how great the candidate, it’s a significant risk to put someone on the ticket” who hasn’t been publicly scrutinized.

“They obviously felt it was worth the risk to rev up the base and potentially reach out to Clinton supporters,” Mr. Schnur said.

[paleshadow]

Apparently Sarah can't even teach the basics of birth control to her own high school age daughter ..The unmarried 17 year old is preggers.What a wackadoodle!:lol:


Doesn't this fall under the same lines as democrats saying Bill Clinton's affair had nothing to do with him being able to conduct the responsibilities of President because it was his personal life?

[BombaySapphire3]

Doesn't this fall under the same lines as democrats saying Bill Clinton's affair had nothing to do with him being able to conduct the responsibilities of President because it was his personal life?

And wasn't it the Republicans that invesigated his affairs with the ferocity of pit bulls .Now the Repubs , the self proclaimed party of family values have been beset themselves with sex scandals of all stripes.Just more rank hypocrisy..What is probably really going to do Palin in though is the invesitigation into misuse of her office in Alaska if it is found to be true..the preggers kid is an embarrasment and a poor reflection on her as a mother and her stupid abstinance and no sex education stance as the only form of B.C.I just don't think gramps McCain vetted her properly ..Oh well looks like I'm not out of the woods yet in laying to rest my fears about Mike Huckleberry or Mittens Romney as the V.P. pick.:laugh:

[paleshadow]

And wasn't it the Republicans that invesigated his affairs with the ferocity of pit bulls .Now the Repubs , the self proclaimed party of family values have been beset themselves with sex scandals of all stripes.Just more rank hypocrisy..What is probably really going to do Palin in though is the invesitigation into misuse of her office in Alaska ..the preggers kid is an embarrasment and a poor reflection on her as a mother and her stupid abstinance and no sex education stance as the only form of B.C.I just don't think gramps McCain vetted her properly ..Oh well looks like I'm not out of the woods yet in laying to rest my fears about Mike Huckleberry or Mittens Romney as the V.P. pick.:laugh:


Yes, that's my point. Hypocrisy runs rampant on both sides. It's what I find the most frustrating about politics. This forum seems predominantly liberal, so I believe if Palin was the democratic VP nomination the article about her daughter probably would not have been mentioned here, and perhaps you would not have called her parenting to task? I've always said that if a republican president had performed sex acts with a cigar on an intern the democrats would have raised hell, and on the contrary, the republicans would have tried to justify it. I just wish more people would own up to the fact that it's two sided.

[BombaySapphire3]

Yes, that's my point. Hypocrisy runs rampant on both sides. It's what I find the most frustrating about politics. This forum seems predominantly liberal, so I believe if Palin was the democratic VP nomination the article about her daughter probably would not have been mentioned here, and perhaps you would not have called her parenting to task? I've always said that if a republican president had performed sex acts with a cigar on an intern the democrats would have raised hell, and on the contrary, the republicans would have tried to justify it. I just wish more people would own up to the fact that it's two sided.

Oh there are a couple of "conservatives " on here that might have posted it if the party was reversed though one was recently banned for making truly vile homophobic remarks in this thread.But of course you are right in general and that is politics..the Republicans with their often homophobic legislation ,bible thumping and in Palin's case preposterous notions of sex education just set themselves up though when the scandal is in their own house.And BTW I believe it was a Dem that posted the John Edwards scandal on here.

[Sorceress]

I laid in bed thinking about this at 12:30a.m. this morning... Wow. Just wow.

The whole story of how Trig was born makes Palin seem cold and cavilier to me. Her priorities were WAY off, and decision-making just plain dumb. Putting her baby's health at risk in order to make a speech and fly back to Alaska, even with her Dr.'s consent, was a risk she didn't need to take.

Returning to work after 3 days with Trig and 2 days after the 7-year old makes her seem like some super-human machine. Again, whacked out priorities, and cold. I almost censor myself as I type that, questioning if I have a double standard for her because she's a woman. But no, I would expect a father to take time from work to give full attention to taking care of the new baby too. Even the most dedicated, career-oriented professionals and public servants need to know when to prioritize their families.

And finally, glossing over the 17 year-old's pregancy with "She's keeping it and is getting married (and will have to grow up fast)" as if everything will now be rosey is cavilier over-simplification, IMO. Smiling and being pleased to be grandparents does not make this situation just go away. I'd be less judgemental about the situation, (and its reflection of her parenting skills and views on abstinence-only education), if she could be REAL about it and the impact on her daughter's life.

I make these judgements as a feminist and working mom and human being. Let Obama take the high road and say how a candidate conducts his or her family life is off-limits, but voters can't ignore what that conduct says about the ability to run the country.

[BombaySapphire3]

Wonderfully insightful post Sorceress ^^^^I would hope that it would give some serious pause to any Hillary supporters who might read this and were thinking of voting the McCain/Palin ticket primarily because of the gender of this whackjob.

[estranged4life]

Hypocrisy runs rampant on both sides. It's what I find the most frustrating about politics.

a winner!! Ding ding ding ding ding!!! :thumbsup:

Great statement, and the reason WHY I am in the middle and never registered as a member of either political party...Hypocrisy (Not the great death metal band either)

[BTFLCHLD]

How many kids does this woman have?
http://i33.tinypic.com/yglep.jpg

[estranged4life]

How many kids does this woman have?
http://i33.tinypic.com/yglep.jpg

after four :lol:


Five, for those who are not mathematically inclined

[BombaySapphire3]

How many kids does this woman have?
http://i33.tinypic.com/yglep.jpg

Could be four ..could be five ..likely we will never know the definitive answer.

[skcin]

Doesn't this fall under the same lines as democrats saying Bill Clinton's affair had nothing to do with him being able to conduct the responsibilities of President because it was his personal life?

Good point, although the argument could be made that if Sara can't raise a responsible child, how can she help run the country. That's not MY argument, mind you.

I do think it's a bit embarrassing for her to be so staunchly against sex ed, and to be against teaching evolution, and to not want birth control education in schools, and to talk about "family values" with your unmarried teenage daughter pregnant. But kids screw up - I don't think she's a terrible mother or person. She does look like kind of an a-hole now, however.

Chris - I couldn't see the pic in that link you posted about the baby being her kid's. Is it working? Maybe it's my internet...

My main concern would be that McCain only met her TWICE (once over the phone, if I recall) before selecting her as his VP candidate. How can they be a strong team & lead the country? They don't even KNOW eachother.

And wtf was Cindy McCain doing in the country Georgia? :shrug:

[gldstwmn]

Chris - I couldn't see the pic in that link you posted about the baby being her kid's. Is it working? Maybe it's my internet...



That's because it's gone. :shocked: It looks like someone doesn't want this story on the internets. Here's a linky that still has some photos:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=108x133378

[BombaySapphire3]

I think he's made a masterful choice.

She looks a very strong character and an intelligent woman, and seems to have all the characteristics that might reassure even the most conservatives among the Republicans. Hats off to McCain for the smart move. Obviously I hope they'll lose.

Romy

Well now that she appears rather stupid and by extentsion McCain I was wondering if you still felt this way?It would also seem your and my hopes that they lose are bit more alive now.

[David]

Well now that she appears rather stupid
Hehheh. Would I be correct to assume that you don't much like Gov. Palin?

[Sorceress]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=108x133378

This reminds me of the conspiracy theories about Lindsey and Stevie being married, which were "proven" by pictures of Lindsey and Kristen looking unhappy, etc.

[BombaySapphire3]

[QUOTE=David;770986]Hehheh. Would I be correct to assume that you don't much like Gov. Palin?[/QUO
I don't much like the notion of her being one malignant melonoma away from the Presidency. In fact just the thought of it is giving me a case of the dry heaves.

[BombaySapphire3]

Sheesh !just now on CNN McCain landed at Mpls -St. Paul intl. and the baby daddy was standing there next to McCain with the rest of the Palin clan..this is starting to look like a Jerry Springer episode ..I can see it now shotgun wedding in the Rose Garden ..maybe they can get Dick Cheney to hold the shotgun.:laugh:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

[QUOTE=David;770986]Hehheh. Would I be correct to assume that you don't much like Gov. Palin?[/QUO
I don't much like the notion of her being one malignant melonoma away from the Presidency..

I love how the left keeps saying this.. what you don't understand is this makes us conservatives MORE likely to vote for McCain! It's not a bad thing at ALL

[BombaySapphire3]

[

I love how the left keeps saying this.. what you don't understand is this makes us conservatives MORE likely to vote for McCain! It's not a bad thing at ALL

You now regret having voted for George W. Bush ..how does that old cliche go? Oh yeah "Those that cannot learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them."

[Brwn_eyes0511]

You now regret having voted for George W. Bush ..how does that old cliche go? Oh yeah "Those that cannot learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them."

We'll I suppose we all can't be all seeing, all knowing.. you know, such as you. ;)

I have to vote with my conscience and who I believe will better lead our nation, for me that is McCain/Palin.. without a doubt. And for you.. it's not.. which is fine. It just shows we have different views on how this country should be run.

[BombaySapphire3]

We'll I suppose we all can't be all seeing, all knowing.. you know, such as you. ;)



One did not really have to be prescient to see W's train wreck of a Presidency coming .You bought into and now I thought you had made some progress in understanding the mistake you had made.I just don't understand why you would slip back into that mindset so easily .However in all my history of trying to convince people to vote in their own best interests I have only managed to sway one vote that I know of and that was from Reagan to Mondale in 1984 and alot of good that did.:laugh:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

One did not really have to be prescient to see W's train wreck of a Presidency coming .You bought into and now I thought you had made some progress in understanding the mistake you had made.I just don't understand why you would slip back into that mindset so easily .

I don't feel I'm slipping back into any mindset. And just to let you know the reason I saw the mistake in voting for Bush was not due to ANYONE convincing me (no one can do that!!! ;) ) It was just a matter of growing up! I was 19 at the time.. what did I know? :shrug: He did more to hurt the conservative movement than promote it!

However with McCain I'm more confident about the decision I'm making.. no regrets!

However in all my history of trying to convince people to vote in their own best interests I have only managed to sway one vote that I know of and the was from Reagan to Mondale in 1984 and alot of good that did.:laugh:

This is why I never try to convince anyone. It never does anyone anygood.. People have their own mindset and belief system. Thank GOD we live in a country that allows us all to differ in that respect.

[gldstwmn]

If there is dirt to be found, these guys will find it:

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/sarah_palin_at_war_with_her_daughter_over_pregnancy_wedding/celebrity/65370

PALIN WAR: TEEN PREGO CRISIS


Republican Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin attempted to quietly have her daughter Bristol get married before news of her pregnancy leaked out, the NATIONAL ENQUIRER is reporting exclusively in its new issue.


Palin planned for the wedding to take place right after the Republican National Convention and then she was going to announce the pregnancy.

But Bristol, 17, refused to go along with the plan and that sparked a mother-daughter showdown over the failed coverup.


The ultra-conservative governor’s announcement about her daughter’s pregnancy came hours after The ENQUIRER informed her representatives and family members of Levi Johnston, the father of Bristol’s child, that we were aware of the pregnancy and were going to break the news.

In a preemptive strike Palin released the news, creating political shockwaves.


The ENQUIRER has also learned that Palin’s family is embroiled in a vicious war that is now exposing her darkest secrets, threatening to destroy her political career.

Palin’s ongoing war with her ex brother-in-law Mike Wooten, a state trooper, has caused multiple sources to come forward with shocking allegations about the governor.

Details of those allegations, the family feud, and Palin’s attempt to cover up her teen daughter’s pregnancy are in the new issue of The ENQUIRER.

[BombaySapphire3]

Well I have to say this whackadoodle of a woman is certainly good for alot of Jerry Springer style entertainment value ..however if she does by a terrible happenstance ever end up in the White House I will cease to find anything about it funny in the least.

[estranged4life]

Big deal, her daughter got knocked up...Not really earth shattering news to me.

Maybe they will pray to Jesus to forgive 'em and ALL will BE well In the WORLD - ya know, the way most relig-a-tards do when they make a mistake - Pray.

I prefer ACCEPTING responsibility for ones actions , not praying to deflect that responsibility. I read "the Satanic Bible" years ago, and the accepting of responsibility for ones actions make a person more true to themselves instead of asking for forgiveness to a 'higher power' to "pass the buck".

Brian "Randal Graves/Dante Hicks in 2008" j.

[jannieC]

Oh there are a couple of "conservatives " on here that might have posted it if the party was reversed though one was recently banned for making truly vile homophobic remarks in this thread.But of course you are right in general and that is politics..the Republicans with their often homophobic legislation ,bible thumping and in Palin's case preposterous notions of sex education just set themselves up though when the scandal is in their own house.And BTW I believe it was a Dem that posted the John Edwards scandal on here.

Just wanted to clarify that at this time, no one has been banned. A temporary suspension has been put in place. Thanks!

[ashton]

Just wanted to clarify that at this time, no one has been banned. A temporary suspension has been put in place. Thanks!

So now everyone can look forward to someone claiming that they were denied their Right of Free Speech on a website. I can almost guarantee it.

Perhaps we should start a pool to predict when.

[jannieC]

So now everyone can look forward to someone claiming that they were denied their Right of Free Speech on a website. I can almost guarantee it.

Perhaps we should start a pool to predict when.


This website has clear rules against personal attacks. Hopefully what we all have to look forward to in this thread is spirited and respectful debating without resorting to name calling and insulting posts.

[skcin]

This is why I never try to convince anyone. It never does anyone anygood.. People have their own mindset and belief system. Thank GOD we live in a country that allows us all to differ in that respect.

I was able to convince 1 person, 1 time in my life. He argued that gay people choose to be gay. I asked him to confirm with me that he thought we are all born exactly the same & make the sexuality choice later in life. He did. I asked him when he made his choice to be straight. That ended that debate.

[vivfox]

I just opened this up for the first time, here on page 12. So keeping that in mind I'm not here to offend anyone. I found this pic on the net today and want to post it just cause I think it is funny, not anything to do with taking sides politicly.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd169/cielosharon/McCainPalin.jpg

[BombaySapphire3]

I just opened this up for the first time, here on page 12. So keeping that in mind I'm not here to offend anyone. I found this pic on the net today and want to post it just cause I think it is funny, not anything to do with taking sides politicly.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd169/cielosharon/McCainPalin.jpg

I am taking sides and I think it is pretty funny!:thumbsup:

[iamnotafraid]

"Those that cannot learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them."

You'd think the bleeding heart liberals would know this by now.

The more I hear about Sarah Palin the more I like.
She has more experience than Obama.

Oh, and where are all the "women's rights" groups?
Why aren't they taking up for Sarah?
Maybe it's because women's rights groups only care about liberal women.

[ashton]

You'd think the bleeding heart liberals would know this by now.

The more I hear about Sarah Palin the more I like.
She has more experience than Obama.

Oh, and where are all the "women's rights" groups?
Why aren't they taking up for Sarah?
Maybe it's because women's rights groups only care about liberal women.

Specifically, what women's rights issues does Palin support that would be reason for women's rights groups to take up for her? Hopefully, you can answer this without resorting the generalizations in your initial post.

[SuzeQuze]

Since we're "bleeding heart liberals" does that make conservatives "cold-hearted misers"? These phrases get thrown around so much so as to lose their meaning.

[BTFLCHLD]

Is there something 'wrong' with McCain's neck? Has it been fused?

[rubytuesday]

Oh, and where are all the "women's rights" groups?
Why aren't they taking up for Sarah?

Which womens rights is she fighting for? You think just cause she's a woman that womens rights groups would get behind her blindly. They'd get behind the person who was supporting women more whether that person is a man or a woman themselves. I mean I'm a female but I hated Thatcher.......there's as much relevance there as there is in your statement. i'm sure there's black people supporting McCain, same deal.

[BombaySapphire3]

You'd think the bleeding heart liberals would know this by now.


Oh, and where are all the "women's rights" groups?
Why aren't they taking up for Sarah?
Maybe it's because women's rights groups only care about liberal women.

Why on earth would anyone that was for the rights of women want to support this whackadoodle?She is so myopic that she truly believes abstinence only should be taught in schools instead of any preventative measures for birth control and her own high school age daughter is now pregnant ?! Just stupid.She would overturn Roe vs. Wade in an instant if she could which I'm sure would delight you but would send women into the back alley butcher shops again.I am not for abortion as birth control but for chrissakes this nutjob doesn't want to promote any sensible .sane methods of unwanted pregnancy prevention and I am sure would nip any programs to help the unwanted children her idiotic plan would produce in the bud .

[Johnny Stew]

You'd think the bleeding heart liberals would know this by now.

And one would also think that those who voted for Bush and were ultimately unhappy with his performance (or at least claim to be unhappy with it), would have learned from that.

In 2007, John McCain voted in support of President Bush 95% of the time (source: FactCheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/is_it_true_that_even_though_john.html)).

Want more of the same? Vote for McCain!

[BombaySapphire3]

And one would also think that those who voted for Bush and were ultimately unhappy with his performance (or at least claim to be unhappy with it), would have learned from that.

In 2007, John McCain voted in support of President Bush 95% of the time (source: FactCheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/is_it_true_that_even_though_john.html)).

Want more of the same? Vote for McCain!

Thank you.That is exactly what I was trying to explain to Brandon who now very much regrets voting for Bush and is going to make the same error again when I made the statment that iamnotafraid just posted out of context.

[SuzeQuze]

Conservatives will probably ignore these facts just because they are sourced from moveon. :rolleyes:

• Palin recently said that the war in Iraq is "God's task." She's even admitted she hasn't thought about the war much—just last year she was quoted saying, "I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq." 1, 2
• Palin has actively sought the support of the fringe Alaska Independence Party. Six months ago, Palin told members of the group—who advocate for a vote on secession from the union—to "keep up the good work" and "wished the party luck on what she called its 'inspiring convention.'" 3
• Palin wants to teach creationism in public schools. She hasn't made clear whether she thinks evolution is a fact.4
• Palin doesn't believe that humans contribute to global warming. Speaking about climate change, she said, "I'm not one though who would attribute it to being manmade." 5
• Palin has close ties to Big Oil. Her inauguration was even sponsored by BP. 6
• Palin is extremely anti-choice. She doesn't even support abortion in the case of rape or incest. 7
• Palin opposes comprehensive sex-ed in public schools. She's said she will only support abstinence-only approaches. 8
• As mayor, Palin tried to ban books from the library. Palin asked the library how she might go about banning books because some had inappropriate language in them—shocking the librarian, Mary Ellen Baker. According to Time, "news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving "full support" to the mayor." 9
• She DID support the Bridge to Nowhere (before she opposed it). Palin claimed that she said "thanks, but no thanks" to the infamous Bridge to Nowhere. But in 2006, Palin supported the project repeatedly, saying that Alaska should take advantage of earmarks "while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist." 10
http://pol.moveon.org/lte?campaign_id=95&id=13701-5735729-euqrnpx&t=4
P.S. If you haven't seen it, check out the Daily Show clip on Palin. It's worth a watch
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=24753&id=13701-5735729-euqrnpx&t=5
Sources
1. "Palin: Iraq war 'a task that is from God'," Associated Press, September 3, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=24701&id=13701-5735729-euqrnpx&t=6
2. "Palin wasn't 'really focused much' on the Iraq war," ThinkProgress, August 30, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=24702&id=13701-5735729-euqrnpx&t=7
3. "The Sarah Palin Digest," ThinkProgress, September 4, 2008
http://thinkprogress.org/palin-digest/
4. "McCain and Palin differ on issues," Associated Press, September 3, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=24703&id=13701-5735729-euqrnpx&t=8
5. Ibid
6. The Sarah Palin Digest," ThinkProgress, September 4, 2008
http://thinkprogress.org/palin-digest/
7. Ibid
8. Ibid.
9. "Mayor Palin: A Rough Record," Time, September 2, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=24704&id=13701-5735729-euqrnpx&t=9
10. The Sarah Palin Digest," ThinkProgress, September 4, 2008
http://thinkprogress.org/palin-digest/

[KarmaContestant]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/03/rosen.palin/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

By Hilary Rosen
CNN Contributor

(CNN) -- Warning! This pundit isn't feeling the same way as many of my colleagues about Sarah Palin. She is being attacked for her lack of experience for the job and for whether she should be putting her family first instead of her career.

This just isn't that unusual in my book. And the more it goes on, the more uncomfortable I feel with that message.

Let's reflect. In her acceptance speech, we saw a woman who was compelling, charming and aggressively partisan. She succeeded in demonstrating that she is a regular mom who came to government to make a difference.

And she had that crowd in the convention hall eating out of her hands. Celebrity? It will be hard for the Republicans to attack Sen. Barack Obama for his celebrity now that they have one of their own.

A superstar of the radical right was made Wednesday night. And she may also have made some headway with those who buy her folksiness without knowing the extreme nature of her actual policy views. Read the transcript of Palin's speech

So where does this leave us as Democrats in making the case against Sarah Palin and her running mate for president? What is the choice now for the American people? There is a really strong case to be made against the McCain/Palin ticket and Democrats need to make it the right way, right away.

I am a woman who someone took a chance on several years ago when they gave me a job that had only previously been done by old white guys. Experience? How do you get any if no one takes a chance on you? And the decision to take a chance can be instinctive, as John McCain said.

And what about the argument that she is a negligent mother who will be distracted from her important role? I am a mother who constantly feels the pressure from others about whether I am fit to be a parent, whether I put my kids first often enough and whether my children get enough of my attention. Who has the right to judge my family?

My grandmother always said, "You can't tell time on someone else's clock." Judgments about people's personal lives are better left unsaid and unrealized.

So why then do I think that Sarah Palin would be a terrible vice president? Because I also think that John McCain would be a terrible president.

I don't care about how Sarah Palin or John McCain take care of their families. I care about how their policy choices affect my family and millions of other Americans.

McCain and Palin get their health insurance paid for by the government (hers in Alaska and his in Washington). Yet they oppose giving the nearly 46 million uninsured Americans the same access to affordable health care.

John McCain's kids don't have to worry about paying for college. Yet he has opposed every single education support program to help others.

McCain and Palin say they will stand up to oil companies. Yet the only energy policy they support gives millions of dollars in tax breaks to oil companies to do more drilling and he has opposed every piece of federal legislation to explore alternative fuel sources.

McCain and Palin say they will revamp how Washington does business. Yet his campaign is filled with lobbyists and she has cooperated with Sen. Ted Stevens in funneling federal money for useless projects in Alaska for years. And McCain and Palin have no solutions for Americans worrying about their jobs in a fragile economy.

McCain and Palin want us to leave their families alone. Yet they want to make rules for our families by eliminating our right to make our own choices over abortion, eliminate our access to family planning education or domestic partner benefits, and our freedom from discrimination.

They want to control what our kids learn in school about sex and about science. In short, through the policies they promote and the judges they support, they want the government to have more control over our private lives than at any time in history.

McCain and Palin now say their campaign is about change, too. Yet the only real change they have proposed is a change from a suit to a skirt in the vice president's office and one man fighting a misplaced war for another in the Oval Office.

That seems to me to be the right reason to oppose them in November. It's not the process or the people, it's what they represent. This unconventional choice of a vice presidential nominee by John McCain won't result in a win in November, because McCain and Palin are the wrong choice for the country.

[BombaySapphire3]

Thsi woman is scarily far to the right..If by some chance they happen to win I will be praying for McCain's health every day and I am not religious at all.She is essentially Dick Cheney in drag ..just much more inexperienced and farther to the right.

[estranged4life]

Since we're "bleeding heart liberals" does that make conservatives "cold-hearted misers"?

Independents? What are we????

Easy, we're NEITHER!!!! :laugh:


Brian "Centralist and REALIST to the f**kin' end" j.

[Tango]

If by some chance they happen to win I will be praying for McCain's health every day and I am not religious at all.


I saw this article in the LA Times on the subject of McCain's health:

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-na-mccainhealth24-2008may24,0,383059.story

His mother is clearly alive. Anyone know off hand what his father died from?

[Tango]

Nevermind-- he died in a plane at age 70:

Admiral McCain retired in 1972 in Washington D.C. He died on a military aircraft en route from Europe 22 March 1981. He is buried in Arlington National Cemetery. According to the Arlington National Cemetery site information (WEB link below) he died in Washington D.C.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_S._McCain,_Jr.

[ashton]

I saw this article in the LA Times on the subject of McCain's health:

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-na-mccainhealth24-2008may24,0,383059.story

His mother is clearly alive. Anyone know off hand what his father died from?

I think he died of a heart attack at age 70.

[Tango]

I think he died of a heart attack at age 70.

You are correct!~ This would be a big hereditary issue, then!

[Sorceress]

She is essentially Dick Cheney in drag ..just much more inexperienced and farther to the right.


This was the best laugh I had all day.

ps: I really resent that Conservative Republicans are all of a sudden telling Liberal women that we shouldn't care how Palin conducts her family life, as if they haven't been judging and opposing and inducing guilt in working women for ages. But, I can leave it alone if it's going to distract from the more important issues.

Thanks Suze and Karma for posting the articles that give us the ammunition to fight on the issues that would DIRECTLY impact the way she and McCain would govern. That's what we have to focus on--what her ideology and policies would really mean for everyone, not what her parenting choices mean for her kids. Apparently that only gives the Repubs more ammunition for their misguided defense of her.

[omigodstevie]

It has nothing to do with her politics, but maaan did she give her babies some celebrity-esque names!

[Sorceress]

It has nothing to do with her politics, but maaan did she give her babies some celebrity-esque names!

And that's one MORE reason to question her judgement! :laugh: Track and Trig? Give me a break. (I just can't stay on message)

[BombaySapphire3]

I have to say McCain is one of the lamest public speakers imaginable ..he is so bad I actually feel a bit sorry for the old boy.The only excitement during his interminable speech has been the anti- war protesters .One group is Vets against the war that were holding banners that said" McCain voted against vets" and "You can't win an occupation" while the Repub delegates robotically chanted USA ! USA! to drown out the protesters I could not help thinking why are they doing that when the protesters are the true patriots?

[BombaySapphire3]

Good evening, lots of friends and relatives have been asking me (as an Alaskan) what I think of Sarah Palin, our Governor, and new choice for McCain as a VP candidate.

Here it goes:

This pick floored me. Sarah Palin is a nice person. I've met her, I've even talked to her for a few minutes at a principal's conference a couple of years ago. She has lots going for her superficially. She speaks from the heart, like a spitfire mother; she can even be sort of funny sometimes. She is quite beautiful; athletic, and has that radiant glow of someone who actually spends time doing things outside. Unlike many politicians, she has lived a "real life" and done things that few living and working in DC could ever do....like dipnettin' fish, shootin' stuff and eating it out on the tundra, and havin' 5 kids.

Personally, I'd never vote for her. She has an extremely simple view of the world. I don't even think she has ever been abroad. As governor she has repeatedly shown us that she is unable to grasp the demands of leadership. She is very prone to cronyism of the worst kind. Every cabinet level political appointment she has made she has over-ridden suggestions of our state advisory boards, and instead promoted those who had granted her direct political favors. Not that other politicians don't do this, they do, but most of them are able to balance their appointments to ensure that at least a few people with real skill and experience are running big state agencies.

She also has been unable to pay attention to her Alaskan constituency. Personally, I've written several of our previous gov's and been asked to comment publicly on education policy. All the previous gov's have always acknowledged that contribution, criticism or comment; sometimes by direct reply, or at least by that of a staff member. Palin's office has been a zone of silence. Not I, nor one person I know commenting has ever gotten any sort of reply. Her claim of running an open or transparent government is totally false; the public simply has no role in her administration.

Her previous claim to fame was being mayor of Wasilla, a growing town about 40 minutes from Anchorage of about 15,000 people. Wasilla is a hellhole, even by Alaskan standards, where there are plenty of hellhole towns and villages. Wasilla is an ugly place that shows a complete absence of planning, design, or sense of public vision. Gov't agencies and services are completely overrun in this town; things are so bad that they can't even track their population or build schools in the right place, because most parts of the town don't require building permits, so the only clue about where people are settling are utility receipts. Imagine trying to be an emergency responder in this kind of place: Houses don't just catch on fire in Wasilla, they burn to the ground, because by the time the fire department has figured out which road to take (no signs) or whose house it is (no directory), the place is done for. Palin was mayor this town for at least 2 terms before being elected gov. a year and a half ago.

Her moral sense is simplistic and not inclusive. She is the sort of person who is used to using their "faith" to divide and isolate minority groups of human beings instead of uniting them. To her credit as Gov. she has kept out of this arena pretty well, but when in comfortable company (i. e the Matanuska Valley Republican Women's Club), she lets her moral cat out of the bag.

I will do what I can to ensure her defeat and that of her running mate as well. :) Please share this information with those who can use it well.

Cheers, Pete Hauschka

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Personally, I'd never vote for her.

Thank you for this unbiased view!

[SuzeQuze]

Some Rs do not agree with appointment and were caught on tape saying so.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/03/peggy-noonan-mike-murphy_n_123647.html

[chiliD]

I just think it's too bad that Tina Fey left SNL, she'd be the perfect person to portray Ms. Palin.

[BTFLCHLD]

I just think it's too bad that Tina Fey left SNL, she'd be the perfect person to portray Ms. Palin. :lol:


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[chiliD]

I just think it's too bad that Tina Fey left SNL, she'd be the perfect person to portray Ms. Palin.

Somebody else thinks so, too.

http://bitsandpieces.us/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/imagesleslie-2dnielsen-2dtina-2dfey1.jpg

[gretchen]

Somebody else thinks so, too.

http://bitsandpieces.us/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/imagesleslie-2dnielsen-2dtina-2dfey1.jpg

OMG :lol::lol::lol:

[SuzeQuze]

:lol:


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OMG brilliant. "They vote with the little hood." :lol:

[omigodstevie]

I just think it's too bad that Tina Fey left SNL, she'd be the perfect person to portray Ms. Palin.

I'll bet they'll have her on as a host sometime, and they'll write a Sarah Palin sketch :D

[estranged4life]

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd169/cielosharon/McCainPalin.jpg

they're both DEAD...Bwaahahahahahahaha!!! Damn obvious and I missed it when this was posted...tsk, tsk, tsk.

Brian "Jagger/Richards in 2008" j.

[rubytuesday]

I can't even take her name seriously......it's like one of the monty python guys are running for president. Who could take a Cleese campaign seriously? I can't take a Palin one seriously either.

[SuzeQuze]

She actually said she was curious to see what the VP's day-to-day job was like.

[Tango]

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-sexed6-2008sep06,0,3119305.story


Palin appears to disagree with McCain on sex education

The Republican vice presidential candidate says students should be taught about condoms. Her running mate -- and the party platform -- disagree.


By Seema Mehta, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
September 6, 2008

Teen pregnancy and sex education were thrust into the spotlight this week when Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin revealed that her 17-year-old daughter is five months pregnant.

Palin's running mate, John McCain, and the GOP platform say children should be taught that abstinence until marriage is the only safe way to avoid pregnancy and disease. Palin's position is less clear.

In a widely quoted 2006 survey she answered during her gubernatorial campaign, Palin said she supported abstinence-until-marriage programs. But weeks later, she proclaimed herself "pro-contraception" and said condoms ought to be discussed in schools alongside abstinence.

"I'm pro-contraception, and I think kids who may not hear about it at home should hear about it in other avenues," she said during a debate in Juneau.

Such statements could raise concerns among social conservatives who have been some of Palin's most enthusiastic supporters since she was tapped for the No. 2 spot on the GOP ticket last week.


Leslee Unruh, president of the National Abstinence Clearinghouse and campaign manager of the Vote Yes for Life effort, said children must be given a "clear and concise" message on the benefits of abstinence.

Asked about Palin's statement, Unruh said, "I don't think it's clear. It seems disjointed to me."

Two days later, Unruh dismissed the comments as "old."

"I support her in every way," she said.

Other conservatives who have backed Palin, including James Dobson of Focus on the Family, declined to weigh in.

Palin spokeswoman Maria Comella said the governor stands by her 2006 statement, supporting sex education that covers both abstinence and contraception.

McCain's campaign did not respond to questions about whether Palin's position is inconsistent with his. But earlier, a campaign spokesperson said McCain believes abstinence is "the only safe and responsible alternative."

"To do otherwise is to send a mixed signal to children that, on the one hand they should not be sexually active, but on the other, here is the way to go about it," according to a statement provided by the campaign. "As any parent knows, ambiguity and equivocation leads to problems when it comes to teaching children right from wrong."

Even before Palin released a statement about her daughter Bristol, teen pregnancy had been in the spotlight frequently this year. The teen birth rate, which had been declining for 15 years, showed an increase in new data released in July. One month earlier, 17-year-old actress Jamie Lynn Spears gave birth to a daughter, distressing parents who worried about the message it would send to young fans. And early in the year, the film "Juno" won an Oscar, prompting critics to accuse Hollywood of glamorizing teen pregnancy.

Sex education varies widely across the nation's school districts.

In California, the state Education Code does not allow abstinence-only programs in public schools, so if a school offers sex education, it must include discussion of contraception as well as abstinence. About 96% of the state's schools offer sex education. All schools are required to educate older children about HIV/AIDS, and those discussions must cite both abstinence and condoms as methods of preventing infection.

The federal government has spent more than $1 billion on the abstinence-only message since 1996 under a program created by Congress as part of welfare reform. California is the only state to have declined to take part in the program since its inception. In recent years, states that had taken part in the program have decided to forgo the funding and the restrictions that come with it.

Palin's statements date to her 2006 gubernatorial run. In July of that year, she completed a candidate questionnaire that asked, would she support funding for abstinence-until-marriage programs instead of "explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?"

Palin wrote, "Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support."

But in August of that year, Palin was asked during a KTOO radio debate if "explicit" programs include those that discuss condoms. Palin said no and called discussions of condoms "relatively benign."

"Explicit means explicit," she said. "No, I'm pro-contraception, and I think kids who may not hear about it at home should hear about it in other avenues. So I am not anti-contraception. But, yeah, abstinence is another alternative that should be discussed with kids. I don't have a problem with that. That doesn't scare me, so it's something I would support also."

[SteveMacD]

Somebody else thinks so, too.

http://bitsandpieces.us/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/imagesleslie-2dnielsen-2dtina-2dfey1.jpg

Tina Fey is still close to the show. I wouldn't be surprised if she makes more than one cameo, al la Jan Hooks in the 1990s, on SNL

[SuzeQuze]

Tina Fey is still close to the show. I wouldn't be surprised if she makes more than one cameo, al la Jan Hooks in the 1990s, on SNL

God, she has to!

[BombaySapphire3]

Things aren't looking so good for the Repubs and their convention right now.
And Strandie, you have been scarce since this whole Gustav thing started. Is the family okay?

Is he gone for good or what?:shrug:Another prolific poster from the Golden Age of The Ledge to quietly disappear into the ether?Hope not.:(

[strandinthewind]

I just got back from two weeks in Europe.

I and the peeps in Louisiana are fine and unscathed.

As for SP - what did anyone expect, she is further to the right than "I voted 95% with W" McCain and she is a staunch anti-abortionist. She also is a clear attempt to woo some Hillary women. She is a rather brilliant move on the part of the McCain campaign.

[BombaySapphire3]

I just got back from two weeks in Europe.

I and the peeps in Louisiana are fine and unscathed.

As for SP - what did anyone expect, she is further to the right than "I voted 95% with W" McCain and she is a staunch anti-abortionist. She also is a clear attempt to woo some Hillary women. She is a rather brilliant move on the part of the McCain campaign.
I hope you had a good trip! She is not just farther to the right than McCain .I believe she is farther to the right than W himself. Whereas he is a born again more for political expediency IMO she is the real thing ,a true believer .There is no place for that kind of extremism in leadership or really anywhere in these times whether it is Islam ,Christianity or any other .
I posted on here several times that I feared he would pick a far right VP. but she exceeds my worst fears. I can't imagine too many former Hillary supporters going for her given her extreme positions ..It would have to be on gender alone and that is disturbing.

[ajmccarrell]

I hope you had a good trip! She is not just farther to the right than McCain .I believe she is farther to the right than W himself. Whereas he is a born again more for political expediency IMO she is the real thing ,a true believer .There is no place for that kind of extremism in leadership or really anywhere in these times whether it is Islam ,Christianity or any other .
I posted on here several times that I feared he would pick a far right VP. but she exceeds my worst fears. I can't imagine too many former Hillary supporters going for her given her extreme positions ..It would have to be on gender alone and that is disturbing.


Being further to the rigth than W isn't a bad thing. I mean look at the Fannie May Freddie Mac mess! W talks a good right wing talk, but doesn't re-enforce it with his pen. He's also too quick to throw people under the bus and apologize. Palin has a bigger set than W ever dreamed of having. I watched W on an old Meet the Press and was extremely disappointed. He started out with high ideals, but never really succeeded in anything he outlined besides tax cuts, and those aren't even permanent!

[BombaySapphire3]

Being further to the rigth than W isn't a bad thing. I mean look at the Fannie May Freddie Mac mess! W talks a good right wing talk, but doesn't re-enforce it with his pen. He's also too quick to throw people under the bus and apologize. Palin has a bigger set than W ever dreamed of having. I watched W on an old Meet the Press and was extremely disappointed. He started out with high ideals, but never really succeeded in anything he outlined besides tax cuts, and those aren't even permanent!

Welcome back AJM!:wavey:And we actually agree on something !W is a lame ineffective President.I also agree that Palin has a bigger set than him and is just crazy and ruthless enough to try and push a far right agenda even though if she did end up Pres ,Congress and the Senate will not be Repub.I can understand why she is the evangelical right's wet dream with such nutty statement's as "God wants Alaska to have a pipeline" ..really that sounds like something Osama Bin Laden would say except substituting Alaska for Afghanistan or some such.As I was watching the RNC I could not help but notice that the vast majority of the delegates were middle aged or older white folks with a sparse smattering of strategically placed minorites.That party and the neo con movement's days are numbered and Palin just may well be their last best hope..A hope which I would love to see go down in flames.

[ajmccarrell]

Welcome back AJM!:wavey:And we actually agree on something !W is a lame ineffective President.I also agree that Palin has a bigger set than him and is just crazy and ruthless enough to try and push a far right agenda even though if she did end up Pres ,Congress and the Senate will not be Repub.I can understand why she is the evangelical right's wet dream with such nutty statement's as "God wants Alaska to have a pipeline" ..really that sounds like something Osama Bin Laden would say except substituting Alaska for Afghanistan or some such.As I was watching the RNC I could not help but notice that the vast majority of the delegates were middle aged or older white folks with a sparse smattering of strategically placed minorites.That party and the neo con movement's days are numbered and Palin just may well be their last best hope..A hope which I would love to see go down in flames.

I think what McCain did is pick a female Obama. I also find it tacky when people say that God wants them to do something or another. I wish people would keep stuff like that to themselves. If you believe God wants you to do something, that's all well and fine, but it just marginalizes you and leaves your statement up to moral equivocations like the one you pointed out.

I think what you're noticing is that conservatives have much less flexible work hours than their liberal counterparts, so you are more likely to see older retireees at the convention. It also depends on what network you were watching. CNN and Fox both displayed a nice mix of races, whereas MSNBC did everything they could to film old people or people that looked like wackos. I used to temp a lot for the first 3 or 4 years of my career in accounting and I would often be contracted to non-profits and other businesses that are left leaning. One thing that they all had in common was that their time-off policies were very flexible. I currently work for two Canadian liberals now and they wouldn't have a problem if I left for a convention, but I have to think that my conservative bretheren and "sisteren" :) would have a harder time leaving, as conservatives are more likely to be self-employed or are shift-workers, demographically. That's why there are few conservative protests besides retired vets, as most of us can't leave work. We even studied the phenomenon in my undergraduate Statistics course, as polls taken during the day swing left and polls taken at night are closer to reality. It's also no secret that minorities lean democratic, especially when the first minority nominee is running for president. The black community, according to the last statistics I heard were leaning Obama by some 91%.

I've always thought "Neo-Con" was a veiled racist term for "Jewish Conservative". I generally only hear that term from the people who call in Michael Medved's "Conspiracy Day" program every full-moon and allege that our country is really lead by the Protocalls of the Elders of Zion or some such nonsense, or I hear the term from terrorists themselves.

[ajmccarrell]

On another note, after seeing Obama on Bill O'Reilly and statements he made in the past month, as well as tossing Wright under the bus among a few others, I think Obama is likely to be the left's W. What do you dems think? Do you agree, if so, why and if not, why not?

[BombaySapphire3]

I've always thought "Neo-Con" was a veiled racist term for "Jewish Conservative". I generally only hear that term from the people who call in Michael Medved's "Conspiracy Day" program every full-moon and allege that our country is really lead by the Protocalls of the Elders of Zion or some such nonsense, or I hear the term from terrorists themselves.
here is a brief description of the term ..never heard the idea you mentioned.
Neoconservatism was a political philosophy that emerged in the United States from the rejection of the social liberalism, moral relativism, and New Left counterculture of the 1960s. It influenced the presidential administrations of George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush, representing a realignment in American politics, and the transition of some liberals to the right of the political spectrum; hence the term, which refers to being 'new' conservatives

[BombaySapphire3]

On another note, after seeing Obama on Bill O'Reilly and statements he made in the past month, as well as tossing Wright under the bus among a few others, I think Obama is likely to be the left's W. What do you dems think? Do you agree, if so, why and if not, why not?

Obama is a politician I've never denied that..I do not think he will be our W however I think he'd have to get a partial lobotomy first.Everybody running for the Presidency does things for the sake of political expediency..McCain once a moderate has moved to the right even moreso than after his failed bid in 2000 and picking Sarah Palin underscored that fact.I am hoping that move ultimately turns off Independents when they realize what a wingnut she truly is ..since in their hands the victory lies.

[ajmccarrell]

Ok, I gotcha. Makes sense.

Anyway, I just can't agree with you that the neocon movement is going anywhere any time soon. If it were, we'd be seeing entirely different sets of poll numbers right now. If someone were to tell you a year ago that McCain would have passed Obama on several major polls, you probably would have laughed or thought it a reason to place them on a 72 hour psych hold. The basic truth of it is that the country is totally polarized, with about 10% stuck in the middle, or not paying enough attention. Rush Limbaugh, stupidly, announced in 2005 that "liberalism is dead" and we saw what happened the following year. At this point in time, after 2 years of a completely ineffective democratic congress and 8 years of a president who apologizes every other day and fires someone, both sides have reasons for the other side to dislike them intensely.

[ajmccarrell]

Obama is a politician I've never denied that..I do not think he will be our W however I think he'd have to get a partial lobotomy first.Everybody running for the Presidency does things for the sake of political expediency..McCain once a moderate has moved to the right even moreso than after his failed bid in 2000 and picking Sarah Palin underscored that fact.I am hoping that move ultimately turns off Independents when they realize what a wingnut she truly is ..since in their hands the victory lies.

Given that he thinks he can cut taxes for the "middle class" and not have them feel the brunt of any other tax increases on corporations or the rich, I think he HAS HAD a partial lobotomy. I mean, has he ever heard of "price elasticity" or how taxes affect consumers based upon the elasticity of prices when taxes or factors of production go up? I think he's an empty suit that says what his backers want, or what he thinks will get him elected.

I can't agree that McCain was ever a moderate. I think that's what the media portrayed because they liked him and a Republican that differed with his party fed into their inherent bias, and they liked to use those examples against the sitting conservative presidents. They have since turned on him after he actually said what he thought. The Kato institute ranked his voting record only 3 percentage points behind the uber-conservative (my favorite too) Fred Thompson. McCain is a federalist and it is often mistaken for being moderate, when in reality it just means that he doesn't want the feds dictating what states can decide for themselves. IE he was against the gay marriage amendment because his basic philosophy, which is the same as teddy Roosevelt's, is at odds with the idea of the federal government making that distinction. One other example is Roe V. Wade. Most people are under the mistaken assumption that reversing it would make abortion illegal. In actuality, what would happen is that it would then be up to the states to decide the issue for themselves. Both of those are positions that McCain has iterated, which are federalist positions.

[gldstwmn]

I just got back from two weeks in Europe.

I and the peeps in Louisiana are fine and unscathed.



You lucky bastard! I was beginning to get worried. Glad the fam is okay.

[iamnotafraid]

I just got back from two weeks in Europe.

I and the peeps in Louisiana are fine and unscathed.

Glad you're ok!

[gldstwmn]

Being further to the rigth than W isn't a bad thing. I mean look at the Fannie May Freddie Mac mess!

What about it?

[gldstwmn]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/08/palin.pastor/index.html

Pastor: GOP may be downplaying Palin's religious beliefs

WASILLA, Alaska (CNN) -- For more than two decades, current Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin was a practicing Pentecostal.


Sarah Palin asked church members to pray for $30 billion natural gas pipeline in Alaska.

She belonged to the Wasilla Assembly of God church in her hometown of Wasilla, Alaska. But though she attended the church from her teenage years through to 2002, she hasn't talked much about her religion since joining the Republican ticket.

Palin's former pastor, Tim McGraw, says that like many Pentecostal churches, some members speak in tongues, although he says he's never seen Palin do so. Church member Caroline Spangler told CNN, "When the spirit comes on you, you utter things that nobody else can understand ... only God can understand what is coming out of our mouths."

Some Pentecostals from Assembly of God also believe in "faith healing" and the "end times" -- a violent upheaval that they believe will deliver Jesus Christ's second coming.

"Our basic belief is that God is God and he knows where history is going and he has a purposeful plan and within the middle of that plan we live in an environment in our world where certain events would take place," says McGraw. "Sarah wasn't taught to look for one particular sign -- a cataclysmic sign. She knew as every Christian does ... that God is sovereign and he is in control."

The McCain campaign says the Governor doesn't consider herself Pentecostal. Watch Palin's father talk about her religious upbringing »

McGraw says Palin's Pentecostal roots may be being downplayed for a reason: "I think there may be issues of belief that could be misunderstood or played upon by people that don't know."


When asked by CNN about Palin's beliefs, campaign spokeswoman Meghan Stapleton would only say the Republican vice presidential candidate has "deep religious convictions."

But how might her religious beliefs impact policy in Washington if the Republican ticket is successful?

Palin's former pastor says he has no doubt her religious beliefs will influence her decision making when it comes to government policy. Regarding her desire to build an Alaskan pipeline and explore for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, McGraw told CNN, "Sarah knows that in Genesis, God creates the world and it's very good and that we're supposed to be caretakers in terms of not destroying the environment, so there's no way that Sarah is going to exploit or damage the Alaska tundra in the name of getting gas if she doesn't have to." Palin's neighbors react to her swift rise

Six years ago, Palin left Assembly of God to join the non-denominational Wasilla Bible Church. But the Assembly of God says she still returns for special conferences and events, such as the graduation of ministry students in June. Video of a speech she gave at the church just two months before joining the Republican ticket is making the rounds on the Internet.

Speaking of the troops in Iraq, Palin says on the video, ""Pray for our military men and women who are striving do to what is right. Also for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for -- that there is a plan, and that plan is God's plan." Watch Palin speak at her former church »

Her campaign says she doesn't mix her faith with government business. But Palin did ask her audience to pray for $30 billion natural gas pipeline she is on a mission to build in Alaska. In the video Palin says, "I think God's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas pipeline built. So pray for that ... I can do my job there in developing my natural resources. But all of that doesn't do any good if the people of Alaska's heart is not good with God."

McGraw, who was her pastor until 1998 and while she was mayor of Wasilla, says Palin attended discipleship classes to strengthen her Pentecostal faith and that he counseled her on how to become a better leader.

"Everyone has a way of viewing the world and Sarah does too and hers would be shaped by the common sense practicality of how she's been shaped by the Bible -- which is basically the world view that says God loves people, people can access him and he's given us wisdom for living," says McGraw.

He says Alaska has already seen Palin's faith play out. As governor she passed ethics reform and took on what she's referred to as a "good-ol'-boys network." However, she has said she would not seek to impose her religious views on others.

"I think one of the most obvious ways it plays out is what you've seen -- is being courageous enough to deal with deception and corruption," says McGraw.

Palin now attends the Wasilla Bible Church. She was there on August 17, just days before entering the national spotlight. David Brickner, the founder of Jews for Jesus, was a speaker. He told congregants that terrorist attacks on Israel were God's "judgment" of Jews who haven't embraced Christianity. Brickner said, "Judgment is very real and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television. When a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment -- you can't miss it."

The McCain campaign says his comments do not reflect her religious views. Palin's spokeswoman says she is pro-Israel.

Pastor Ed Kalnin, the senior pastor of Palin's former Pentecostal church, has also come under fire for his comments. In 2004, he told church members if they voted for John Kerry for president, they wouldn't get into heaven. He told them, "I question your salvation."

Assembly of God issued a statement online in response which said Kalnin was "joking" when he suggested "Kerry supporters would go to hell," and statement went on to say, "We do acknowledge in hindsight that it was careless, and we do apologize for that. This statement is not written as a defense, but as a clarification."


Palin has done little while in office to advance a social conservative agenda. She told the Associated Press in an interview in 2006 that she would not allow her personal beliefs to dictate public policy.

"I've honestly answered the questions on what my personal views are on things like abortion and a lot of controversial issues," Palin told the Associated Press. "I won't hesitate to answer those questions about what my personal views are, but I am not one to be out there preaching and forcing my views on anyone else."

But in the last week, her religious background and outlook has certainly spurred debate far beyond Alaska.

[ajmccarrell]

What about it?

Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac were caused by a half-assed hybrid fascist idea of a government run corporation. If it had gone to either total government control or total privatization it wouldn't be in this mess. What happens when you combine private enterprise with government regulation is a lack of oversight and people following directives to the detriment of the solvency of the company. You have a complete imbalance of both the supply and demand curves. The demand curve doesn't change, so the supply curve tends to take advantage of the neverending demand. Hence social security fraud that goes undetected for years and bad loans being lent with huge bonuses for people. It's my basic argument against nationalized health care. You'd end up with drug companies and suppliers ripping off the federal government much worse than they do the public. With the public, they can only get away with so much because our funds are limited and the elasticity of demand is low. With the government, the elasticity of demand is zero, so the companies can charge whatever they want to, like $2,000.00 for a metal cane that costs $5.00 to make.

[ajmccarrell]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/08/palin.pastor/index.html

Pastor: GOP may be downplaying Palin's religious beliefs

WASILLA, Alaska (CNN) -- For more than two decades, current Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin was a practicing Pentecostal.


Sarah Palin asked church members to pray for $30 billion natural gas pipeline in Alaska.

She belonged to the Wasilla Assembly of God church in her hometown of Wasilla, Alaska. But though she attended the church from her teenage years through to 2002, she hasn't talked much about her religion since joining the Republican ticket.

Palin's former pastor, Tim McGraw, says that like many Pentecostal churches, some members speak in tongues, although he says he's never seen Palin do so. Church member Caroline Spangler told CNN, "When the spirit comes on you, you utter things that nobody else can understand ... only God can understand what is coming out of our mouths."

Some Pentecostals from Assembly of God also believe in "faith healing" and the "end times" -- a violent upheaval that they believe will deliver Jesus Christ's second coming.

"Our basic belief is that God is God and he knows where history is going and he has a purposeful plan and within the middle of that plan we live in an environment in our world where certain events would take place," says McGraw. "Sarah wasn't taught to look for one particular sign -- a cataclysmic sign. She knew as every Christian does ... that God is sovereign and he is in control."

The McCain campaign says the Governor doesn't consider herself Pentecostal. Watch Palin's father talk about her religious upbringing »

McGraw says Palin's Pentecostal roots may be being downplayed for a reason: "I think there may be issues of belief that could be misunderstood or played upon by people that don't know."


When asked by CNN about Palin's beliefs, campaign spokeswoman Meghan Stapleton would only say the Republican vice presidential candidate has "deep religious convictions."

But how might her religious beliefs impact policy in Washington if the Republican ticket is successful?

Palin's former pastor says he has no doubt her religious beliefs will influence her decision making when it comes to government policy. Regarding her desire to build an Alaskan pipeline and explore for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, McGraw told CNN, "Sarah knows that in Genesis, God creates the world and it's very good and that we're supposed to be caretakers in terms of not destroying the environment, so there's no way that Sarah is going to exploit or damage the Alaska tundra in the name of getting gas if she doesn't have to." Palin's neighbors react to her swift rise

Six years ago, Palin left Assembly of God to join the non-denominational Wasilla Bible Church. But the Assembly of God says she still returns for special conferences and events, such as the graduation of ministry students in June. Video of a speech she gave at the church just two months before joining the Republican ticket is making the rounds on the Internet.

Speaking of the troops in Iraq, Palin says on the video, ""Pray for our military men and women who are striving do to what is right. Also for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for -- that there is a plan, and that plan is God's plan." Watch Palin speak at her former church »

Her campaign says she doesn't mix her faith with government business. But Palin did ask her audience to pray for $30 billion natural gas pipeline she is on a mission to build in Alaska. In the video Palin says, "I think God's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas pipeline built. So pray for that ... I can do my job there in developing my natural resources. But all of that doesn't do any good if the people of Alaska's heart is not good with God."

McGraw, who was her pastor until 1998 and while she was mayor of Wasilla, says Palin attended discipleship classes to strengthen her Pentecostal faith and that he counseled her on how to become a better leader.

"Everyone has a way of viewing the world and Sarah does too and hers would be shaped by the common sense practicality of how she's been shaped by the Bible -- which is basically the world view that says God loves people, people can access him and he's given us wisdom for living," says McGraw.

He says Alaska has already seen Palin's faith play out. As governor she passed ethics reform and took on what she's referred to as a "good-ol'-boys network." However, she has said she would not seek to impose her religious views on others.

"I think one of the most obvious ways it plays out is what you've seen -- is being courageous enough to deal with deception and corruption," says McGraw.

Palin now attends the Wasilla Bible Church. She was there on August 17, just days before entering the national spotlight. David Brickner, the founder of Jews for Jesus, was a speaker. He told congregants that terrorist attacks on Israel were God's "judgment" of Jews who haven't embraced Christianity. Brickner said, "Judgment is very real and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television. When a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment -- you can't miss it."

The McCain campaign says his comments do not reflect her religious views. Palin's spokeswoman says she is pro-Israel.

Pastor Ed Kalnin, the senior pastor of Palin's former Pentecostal church, has also come under fire for his comments. In 2004, he told church members if they voted for John Kerry for president, they wouldn't get into heaven. He told them, "I question your salvation."

Assembly of God issued a statement online in response which said Kalnin was "joking" when he suggested "Kerry supporters would go to hell," and statement went on to say, "We do acknowledge in hindsight that it was careless, and we do apologize for that. This statement is not written as a defense, but as a clarification."


Palin has done little while in office to advance a social conservative agenda. She told the Associated Press in an interview in 2006 that she would not allow her personal beliefs to dictate public policy.

"I've honestly answered the questions on what my personal views are on things like abortion and a lot of controversial issues," Palin told the Associated Press. "I won't hesitate to answer those questions about what my personal views are, but I am not one to be out there preaching and forcing my views on anyone else."

But in the last week, her religious background and outlook has certainly spurred debate far beyond Alaska.

Well, my aunt went to the same type of church (if not the same church, there aren't a lot of them out there) until she died and my grandmother is a pentacostal minister in Florida. This is a gross mischaracterization and overgeneralization of their faith. Namely the "violent upheaval" is not brought on by the church, it's supposed to be the rise of the antichrist, much like the stupid Left Behind books. They are no more radical than any other church goer, as the denomination is one of the largest in the country. Rick Warren, Joel Osteen, Tim Lahaye, etc are all very much in line with this form of doctrine. Painting her as a wacko because she goes here is to paint millions of people who go to similar churches and abide by the law with the same brush. I don't see Pentacostals going around with bombs strapped to them, or throwing bleach or setting fire to things as protesters in St. Paul did. Most of them are very forceful in speaking about their beliefs, which is about the worst thing you can say about them. I left the "Christian" church a while ago and converted to some form of Judaism, but I won't stand for people slandering people over their religion. It's not like her prayers were calling for God to "damn America" or were accusing white people of injecting blacks with AIDS.

[gldstwmn]

but I won't stand for people slandering people over their religion.

You think CNN is slandering Sarah Palin with this article?

[gldstwmn]

Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac were caused by a half-assed hybrid fascist idea of a government run corporation. If it had gone to either total government control or total privatization it wouldn't be in this mess. What happens when you combine private enterprise with government regulation is a lack of oversight and people following directives to the detriment of the solvency of the company. You have a complete imbalance of both the supply and demand curves. The demand curve doesn't change, so the supply curve tends to take advantage of the neverending demand. Hence social security fraud that goes undetected for years and bad loans being lent with huge bonuses for people. It's my basic argument against nationalized health care. You'd end up with drug companies and suppliers ripping off the federal government much worse than they do the public. With the public, they can only get away with so much because our funds are limited and the elasticity of demand is low. With the government, the elasticity of demand is zero, so the companies can charge whatever they want to, like $2,000.00 for a metal cane that costs $5.00 to make.

Okay. Now bridge that to your point about being further to the right than W and I think we're finally getting somewhere.

[ajmccarrell]

Okay. Now bridge that to your point about being further to the right than W and I think we're finally getting somewhere.

Um, I did, I just don't think you understood what I said. His position was for a federal takeover of a private company and I just made the argument that governmental takeovers of private companies cause economic imbalances that disrupt market efficiency. Free markets are a right wing position and government controlled necessities (with little to no price elasticity or substitute goods) such as housing would be a left wing position. Given that the takeover was by way of purchasing preferred stock instead of by discounted debt, it was a half-assed attempt at federalizing a partially federalized company. My answer is to let it collapse and let other companies buy out the assets, or have the government assist in starting a new company or hold auctions to sell off the mortgages with strict rules about not changing existing terms. Doing this would be a free market position, which is what I would recommend. Letting the housing market fail would bring home prices down to levels where average people could afford them again, which would result in another boom, only one that is sustainable. Anything short of that is propping up artificially inflated prices, which causes overages and surplus supplies; IE lots of unsold homes. Doing what they are doing is tantamount to a price floor. Price controls are never efficient. You either have surplus supply or shortages, depending on whether you had a price floor or ceiling, respectively. Keeping interest rates low, while propping up high prices is a recipe for disaster. It devalues the dollar and causes excess housing supply.

[TrueFaith77]

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28443

One wonders: What did Sarah Palin ever do to inspire the rage and bile that exploded on her selection by John McCain? What is there either in this woman's record or resume to elicit such feline ferocity?

What did we know of her when she was introduced?

That she was a mother of five who had brought into this world a baby boy with Down syndrome, thus living her Christian beliefs. That she was a small-town conservative who had risen from mayor of Wasilla (Pop. 9,700) to be governor of a state twice the size of Texas.

That she was a reformer who had dethroned an Old Boys' Network by dumping a sitting Republican governor. That she had taken on Big Oil, taxed the companies and returned the money in $1,200 checks to every citizen of Alaska. And that she had cut a deal with Canada to build a pipeline to bring natural gas to her fellow Americans.

And, oh, yes. She was "Sarah Barracuda" -- a fierce high school athlete, a runner-up in the Miss Alaska pageant, a Feminist for Life and lifetime member of the NRA. Introduced by McCain, she praised Hillary Clinton and pledged to finish her work by smashing through the glass ceiling in which Hillary had made 18 million cracks.

What, in any or all of this, is there to justify the feral attacks within minutes of her introduction? What had she done to cause this outburst? Answer: absolutely nothing.

No. Sarah Palin is not resented for what she has done, but for who she is: a Christian conservative who believes unborn children are gifts of God, even those with birth defects, and have a God-given right to life.

Normally, the press is reluctant to rummage into the private lives of public servants, unless their conduct affects their duties or they preach virtues they hypocritically do not practice.

Yet, no sooner was Palin introduced, than the media went berserk over the news that her 17-year-old daughter is pregnant. As one in three births in America is out-of-wedlock and Hollywood celebrates this lifestyle, why did The New York Times and The Washington Post splash this "news" on page one above the fold?

How does Bristol Palin's pregnancy disqualify Sarah Palin to be vice president? Why is it even relevant?

They did it because they thought it would damage Sarah Palin in the eyes of a Christian community they do not comprehend.

So out of bounds was the media that Obama, in an act of decency, declared Palin's family off limits and reminded the media that he was himself born to a teenage single mom.

If one would wish to see the famous liberal double standard on naked display, consider.

Palin's daughter was fair game for a media that refused to look into reports that John Edwards, a Democratic candidate for president, was conducting an illicit affair with a woman said to be carrying his child and cheating on his faithful wife Elizabeth, who has incurable cancer. That was not a legitimate story, but Bristol Palin's pregnancy is?

Why did the selection of Sarah Palin cause a suspension of all standards and a near riot among a media that has been so in the tank for Barack even "Saturday Night Live" has satirized the infatuation?

Because she is one of us -- and he is one of them.

Barack and Michelle are affirmative action, Princeton, Columbia, Harvard Law. She is public schools and Idaho State. Barack was a Saul Alinsky social worker who rustled up food stamps. Sarah Palin kills her own food.

Michelle has a $300,000-a-year sinecure doing PR for a Chicago hospital. Todd Palin is a union steelworker who augments his income working vacations on the North Slope. Sarah has always been proud to be an American. Michelle was never proud of America -- until Barack started winning.

Barack has zero experience as an executive. Sarah ran her own fishing fleet, was mayor for six years and runs the largest state in the union. She belongs to a mainstream Christian church. Barack was, for 15 years, a parishioner at Trinity United and had his daughters baptized by Pastor Jeremiah Wright, whose sermons are saturated in black-power, anti-white racism and anti-Americanism.

Sarah is a rebel. Obama has been a go-along, get-along cog in the Daley Machine. She is Middle America. Barack, behind closed doors in San Francisco, mocked Middle Americans as folks left behind by the global economy who cling bitterly to their Bibles, bigotries and guns.

Barack has zero foreign policy experience. Palin runs a state that is home to anti-missile, missile and air defense bases facing the Far East, commands the Alaska National Guard and has a soldier-son heading for Iraq.

Barack, says the National Journal, has the most left-wing voting record in the Senate, besting Socialist Bernie Sanders. Palin's stances read as though they were lifted from Reagan's 1980 "no pale pastels" platform. And this is what this media firestorm is all about.

[estranged4life]

a Christian conservative who believes unborn children are gifts of God

reminds me of what George Carlin once mentioned about the whole Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice yahoo:

"According to the Conservatives in this world, If you're pre-natal you're fine...If you're pre-school, you're f**ked. America is the ONLY country where politicians want the unborn babies to live and grow up to become DEAD soldiers"

[ajmccarrell]

You think CNN is slandering Sarah Palin with this article?

At the very least, they are using gross generalizations and skin deep analysis to attempt to cause a stir over something that isn't really an issue. I do think the article has a definite slant, as the media is totally divorced from the concept of people going to church on Sundays, as they seem to feel it passe. The article has definite feel like the writer is examining some sort of sub-species on Animal Planet, rather than a member of one of the largest denominations in the country. I don't think that the writer has a clue that he's probably offending millions of people that adhere to the AG church or churches that are similar, or for that matter regular church goers of all stripes. I'm offended by the tone and I haven't gone to church in years.

[BombaySapphire3]

I like Sarah, I think she is very smart and I think McCain did the right thing by picking her. I think they will do well. They have my vote! :thumbsup:


Yes she is brilliant ...I knew all along that Africa was a country not a continent and Sarah thinks so too!:blob2:

[BombaySapphire3]

I think he's made a masterful choice.
She looks a very strong character and an intelligent woman, and seems to have all the characteristics that might reassure even the most conservatives among the Republicans. Hats off to McCain for the smart move. Obviously I hope they'll lose.

Romy

I think so too! Did you know that Africa is a country not a continent! Pure genius.

[estranged4life]

I think ALL candidates should have to appear on the game show "Jeopardy" before running for office, just to show if they have ANY intelligence whatsoever...

Yeah right, most couldn't spell the word "Cat" if ya gave 'em the letter "K" and the letter "T".

[GoS]

I was looking at Cnn.com today and forund this:

King: You recently issued one of your new rules decreeing that Obama must give comedians something to work with. Any suggestions?

Bill Maher: No. It's very difficult. We have been spoiled, first with Bill Clinton and then George Bush. And here's a president now who -- he's not stupid. He's not angry. He's not a phony. He's not fat. He's not cheating on his wife.

Who needs a jerk like that around for the next four years? Come on.

(LAUGHTER)

But look, he's going to be the president and we're going to have to get over our nervousness about making fun of a black person. He's not a black person. He's the president.

King: So then you must want Gov. Palin to stay around, comedically.

Maher: I do and she will. I think what people did not understand about Gov. Palin was that she campaigned for that job. She wanted it. She lobbied for it. She's a very ambitious person. And, of course, she's a super religious person. So she believes that God chose her for this job. I guess -- I guess God had a bad night yesterday, because she didn't get it.

But, you know, the Lord works mysterious ways, as we know. So maybe he's saving her for next election or the next after that.

She's only 44 years old. I mean she could be on the public stage for the next 30 years.


Oh please, no! I don't know if I could stand that, I might just move to New Zealand too! Just this morning when the radio guy said that Palin was back in Alaska, I yelled "And stay there!"

[BombaySapphire3]

Oh please, no! I don't know if I could stand that, I might just move to New Zealand too! Just this morning when the radio guy said that Palin was back in Alaska, I yelled "And stay there!"

A cheerful thought but I believe that one way or another she will find a way to remain on the national stage.Even if the Republican party isn't stupid enough to choose her as it's new figurehead and nominee for 2012 she will likely emerge as a television show host or some such silliness.Incidentally the McCain campaign is reportedly going to Alaska to repo all the clothes and accesories she bought on their cards.:laugh:

[GoS]

A cheerful thought but I believe that one way or another she will find a way to remain on the national stage.Even if the Republican party isn't stupid enough to choose her as it's new figurehead and nominee for 2012 she will likely emerge as a television show host or some such silliness.Incidentally the McCain campaign is reportedly going to Alaska to repo all the clothes and accesories she bought on their cards.:laugh:

Yeah, I heard that. There is also talk of her running in a possible special election to replace Sen. "Series of Tubes" Stevens, the convicted felon.

[JWS]

A cheerful thought but I believe that one way or another she will find a way to remain on the national stage.Even if the Republican party isn't stupid enough to choose her as it's new figurehead and nominee for 2012 she will likely emerge as a television show host or some such silliness.Incidentally the McCain campaign is reportedly going to Alaska to repo all the clothes and accesories she bought on their cards.:laugh:


The last I heard, Palin doesn't want to give up the clothes. I hope the RNC gives her a 1099 for $150,00o. Taxable income...pay the piper. That's at least $50,000 in FIT.

[Sapphire Girl]

I think so too! Did you know that Africa is a country not a continent! Pure genius.
Did you know the word jobs has 3 letters not 4? Did you know there are 57 states in the US not 50?

[LukeA]

Did you know the word jobs has 3 letters not 4? Did you know there are 57 states in the US not 50?

Says the woman who thinks Obama is the Anti-Christ.

(seriously)

[BombaySapphire3]

Says the woman who thinks Obama is the Anti-Christ.

(seriously)
In case there was any confusion about screenames I am NOT sapphiregirl's dad.:lol:

[DavidMn]

In case there was any confusion about screenames I am NOT sapphiregirl's dad.:lol:Right now I'm thinking of that immortal line Arnold uttered in Kindergarten Cop "WHO IS YOUR DADDY, AND WHAT DOES HE DO?":lol:

[DavidMn]

she will likely emerge as a television show host or some such silliness.Watch out Joy Behar!:lol: Hey Elizabeth Hassellback needs a BFF too ya know!:lol:

[GoS]

It's fun to watch these guys now. The Bushies are blaming Palin, Palin's blaming the Bushies. And we thought Iraq was a civil war...

[strandinthewind]

Moreover:

The Odd Lies Of Sarah Palin XXIII: "The Clothes' Audit"

Here we go again.

Her first take on November 7:

"There is no clothes audit except for when the belly of the plane got all cleaned out. All the piles of clothes they had in there, they wanted me at my house to go through it and box things up and send it. We should have done that when we were in Arizona, because we had half a day. Yeah, I was doing that last night . . . . But, I heard, too, on the news, there were attorneys coming out to do such a thing [audit the clothes]. There are no attorneys coming up. There's no need for it or anything else."

And now this:

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin spent part of the weekend going through her clothing to determine what belongs to the Republican Party after it spent $150,000-plus on a wardrobe for the vice presidential nominee, according to Palin's father. . . . Republican National Committee lawyers are still trying to determine exactly what clothing was bought for Palin, what was returned and what has become of the rest.

Palin's father, Chuck Heath, said his daughter spent the day Saturday trying to figure out what belongs to the RNC. "She was just frantically ... trying to sort stuff out," Heath said. "That's the problem, you know, the kids lose underwear, and everything has to be accounted for."

So we now have it confirmed that there was an audit, that Palin was involved with it, and that some of the purchases were for underwear for the kids. What does she not lie about?

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/11/the-odd-lies--2.html

I mean why Palin would make such an obvious lie is an outrage.

[BombaySapphire3]

Sarah is showing up on every talk show that will book her.Funny how the Repubs stringently controlled all her media appearances during her failed campaign but now she can't stop chatterring .Sarah won't be going anywhere anytime soon I fear now that she has seeped into the national consciousness she will expend every effort to make certain she remains in it.I repeat if the Republican party chooses this by their own admission whackjob as their figurehead and 2012 nominee then they will have sealed their own doom as a minority party of bible thumping ,backwoods rubes.

[strandinthewind]

^^

Well, from what I have seen, if the R's had allowed this Sarah Palin to emerge during the campaign, they would have been better off. I am not a fan of her and I think she is full of ****te in these new interviews. However, this person is much more coherent and likeable than the bufoon they portrayed in the early interviews during the campaign.

Moreover, America still mostly loves those "bible thumping ,backwoods rubes" and identifies strongly with them. So, I think "sealed their own doom as a minority party" is an incorrent statement. I support this conclusion by noting that Proposition 8 was defeated rather soundly. And, this defeat happened in a so called liberal state and despite the black vote setting aside any religious convictions against abortion to vote for Obama - but they were unwilling to do the same for the gays based solely on the rligious argument, which the far right shoved down their all too willing throats (the churches were almost solely resp. for the oppostion). So, I maintain it is not the minority of America.

[JWS]

Sarah is showing up on every talk show that will book her.Funny how the Repubs stringently controlled all her media appearances during her failed campaign but now she can't stop chatterring .Sarah won't be going anywhere anytime soon I fear now that she has seeped into the national consciousness she will expend every effort to make certain she remains in it.I repeat if the Republican party chooses this by their own admission whackjob as their figurehead and 2012 nominee then they will have sealed their own doom as a minority party of bible thumping ,backwoods rubes.


I agree. Now she is Chatty Cathy!!. After this year, I think we've heard the last of Palin on a national platform. She won't even win reelection as governor. A one hit (or miss) wonder!

Anybody remember Dan Quale?