Green Likes Orange

[michelej1]

This is from an article about Clifford Cooper of Orange in the UK from Musical Instrument Professional:

http://www.mi-pro.co.uk/features/45/Life-begins



Placing his first orders with Matamp towards the end of 1968, the first 100-Watt, valve-driven Orange amps began to arrive back in London just in time for a couple of strokes of luck for the fledgling company. “The long and the short of it was that we had the amps built, and they started selling really well,” continues Cooper. “One of my favourite players was Peter Green with Fleetwood Mac – I used to go and see them whenever I could, I was a big fan – he came in the shop one day, and I managed to ask him if he wanted to use our gear. Fleetwood Mac bought a complete set of equipment, and the first record they made with it was Albatross, which went straight to number one. We took out a full-page advert in Melody Maker, showing that Orange amps had gone to number one, and that was it.

[slipkid]

Less than a year later, most of FM (except McVie) stopped using Orange amps, and went to Fender's. The complaint was that they sounded too much like Marshalls. Jeremy Spencer had discussed this on an older thread. In fact he's gone back to Orange, using an AD-15.


I always wondered why they never tried Hiwatt amps. That's clean power.

[Cussion]

I always wondered why they never tried Hiwatt amps. That's clean power.

Actually, they did.. Danny used Hiwatt amps, after Peter had left, though.
During the "Future Games"/"Bare Trees" era. There are pictures of him playing through Hiwatt amps.

[slipkid]

Actually, they did.. Danny used Hiwatt amps, after Peter had left, though.
During the "Future Games"/"Bare Trees" era. There are pictures of him playing through Hiwatt amps.

That's right, the Beat Club "Dragonfly" video. I always thought it was Bob Welch's amp not Kirwan's (news to me). Anyway, it's ashame Green and Spencer didn't use them. David Gilmour still uses Hiwatts to this day, and Pete Townshend went back to using one of his custom amp heads on the Who's 2006 tour.

[chiliD]

Even Lindsey used HiWatts a lot on stage between 1975 - 1978.

[zoork_1]

[...]... I always wondered why they never tried Hiwatt amps. That's clean power.

Can't say I know much about Hiwatt, but it seems to me that Fender Showman/Dual Showman just KILLS! I've just bought a Bandmaster 1967, but I'm still looking for a nice Dual Showman... :-)

[slipkid]

Can't say I know much about Hiwatt, but it seems to me that Fender Showman/Dual Showman just KILLS! I've just bought a Bandmaster 1967, but I'm still looking for a nice Dual Showman... :-)

There's one on Ebay right now for $400 after six bids. Bidding ends Monday after 5pm EDT.

I have to say PG's tone for "I've Got a Good Mind to Give Up Living (All Over Again)" 1/30/70 in New Orleans is one of the best tones I've ever heard in my life. If that's just a Dual Showman alone, and not other pedals and effects, I'm sold. Can it really produce THAT much reverb? Maybe it was the best amp for his style.

[zoork_1]

There's one on Ebay right now for $400 after six bids. Bidding ends Monday after 5pm EDT...[...].

Thanks, I'll take a look!

Hmm, If I'm right they didn't use "pedals" that much. However, I've heard separate Fender (Orange?) reverb tanks/units were used.

BTW Matamp GT-120 is another nice amp. Though, I rarely play mine these days. It needs "some" vol. to break up, and the guys in the band couldn't stand that..... :-)

[doodyhead]

There's one on Ebay right now for $400 after six bids. Bidding ends Monday after 5pm EDT.

I have to say PG's tone for "I've Got a Good Mind to Give Up Living (All Over Again)" 1/30/70 in New Orleans is one of the best tones I've ever heard in my life. If that's just a Dual Showman alone, and not other pedals and effects, I'm sold. Can it really produce THAT much reverb? Maybe it was the best amp for his style.
Forgetting tubes , just for the moment, That rendition by Peter that night, was one of the top all time blues guitar solos ever recorded period


vinnie c

[slipkid]

Forgetting tubes , just for the moment, That rendition by Peter that night, was one of the top all time blues guitar solos ever recorded period


vinnie c

Preach brother preach! That solo is about 48 bars (roughly four minutes), and it has a beginning, a middle, and an end in four parts. I like how in the second set of twelve bars, Green dials it back a little, only to bring down the hammer in the next twelve bars. That's intensity I've rarely heard in any guitar player. I'm glad PG is still with us physically, but that type of guitar playing is lost forever. That song is a perfect example of what should've been included on the new boxset.


Of course 1/30/70 is the night the Grateful Dead were busted in New Orleans. Dennis McNally makes a point in his book "What a Long Strange Trip", that one observer said that FM outplayed the Dead. Oh, I'd say so! McNally also mentions that on 2/1/70, members of FM joined the Dead on stage for "Turn On Your Lovelight" after injesting "electric cakes" and beers. Mick Fleetwood is dancing on stage with a sign wrapped around his neck saying "Out of Order". McNally also points out that FM is a relatively "young" band compared to the Dead. Maybe in the states that seemed to be the case, but we know the story.

[doodyhead]

That song is a perfect example of what should've been included on the new boxset.

Of course 1/30/70 is the night the Grateful Dead were busted in New Orleans. Dennis McNally makes a point in his book "What a Long Strange Trip", that one observer said that FM outplayed the Dead. Oh, I'd say so! McNally also mentions that on 2/1/70, members of FM joined the Dead on stage for "Turn On Your Lovelight" after injesting "electric cakes" and beers. Mick Fleetwood is dancing on stage with a sign wrapped around his neck saying "Out of Order".

As an addendum, Greatful Dead Fans hold that Jam on Lovelight with Peter 2/1/70 as, in the words of the Stage manager after it ends as "The greatest f__king music in the world" the top version in the annals of Dead shows. It was #4 of the Bears Picks.
I believe , as it is covered in our archives that that show is available free at www.archive.org

doodyhead

[zoork_1]

Forgetting tubes , just for the moment, That rendition by Peter that night, was one of the top all time blues guitar solos ever recorded ...[...]

Well put doodyhead. I would like to add that in my opinion some guitar playing in EUR spring 1970 (Vienna, Berlin, Böblingen, etc,) is state of the art. If the recordings/sound hadn't sucked, I would listen to them daily.

/z

[slipkid]

I'm a drummer who loves guitar porn. I love talking about old discontinued gear that's hard to find. It's more interesting than drums, unless you have a 1961 yellowjacket Slingerland available. :rolleyes:


Back "in the day" you had the Fender Showman (later the Dual Showman), the Bassman, the Bandmaster, and the Tremolux. Apparently, the Showman was a live set up only. It was an 85 W tube amp which would make your ears bleed in a closed space. You had to crank the volume (or gain) to 7 to make it sing. I've read that Green used the Tremolux in smaller venues??? This now goes to a question about guitarist Jesse Ed Davis.


Jesse Ed Davis played with Taj Mahal for the Rolling Stones RnR Circus. If you've seen the concert, it looks like he has a Fender twin reverb combo amp as a pre-amp connected to his Fender Showman amp head. The reason this is important is that he gets a bottom out of a stock Fender Telecaster that's incredible. As we all know a stock Tele is supposed to have a thin sound that's suited for country guitarists. Of course Clapton's rosewood Tele with the Strat headstock with Blind Faith was another creature with his Plexi Marshalls. If the Fender amp can produce that warmth with a stock Tele, then it's game over.


Is the Bandmaster or Tremolux good enough for a smaller space (say a house, or a neighborhood), or do you need to get a Bassman, or (Dual) Showman to unleash that great tone?

[zoork_1]

I'm a drummer who loves guitar porn...[...].

I'm doing a P G's FM tribute, where are you from man, get over here I love drummers who loves guitar porn....:-)

Well, in my opinion a Bandmaster, Tremolux or Pro Reverb is good enough for quite big spaces.

I seldom crank my Bandmaster fully (the boys are tolerant, but not that tolerant) but when I do it unleash a great tone, however, as mentioned a good Showman/Dual Showman delivers killer tone......

/z

[doodyhead]

I'm doing a P G's FM tribute, where are you from man, get over here I love drummers who loves guitar porn....:-)


/z

Dear Zoork,

Where are you doing a Tribure show?

sincerely,
bluesman from Pine bush New York

[zoork_1]

Dear Zoork,

Where are you doing a Tribure show?


Hi Vinnie, if things work out well we'll play Stockholm, Gothenburg, Lund and Halmstad spring 2009. I wouldn't mind going to USA, Germany, Denmark, etc, etc..... :-)

BTW, did you ever get the stuff from DIME, or are you still stuck

Best regards
/Michel

[Wouter Vuijk]

Hi Vinnie, if things work out well we'll play Stockholm, Gothenburg, Lund and Halmstad spring 2009. I wouldn't mind going to USA, Germany, Denmark, etc, etc..... :-)

BTW, did you ever get the stuff from DIME, or are you still stuck

Best regards
/Michel

Hi Michel,

Any chance of seeing or hearing your band by means of internet?
And will you do Holland?
Good luck :thumbsup: on your PG tour.

[doodyhead]

I join Wouter in wishing you "Good Luck Michel",

I would love to hear your music if available somehow on the internet or otherwise.


As for dimeadozen, I can only say that I would like to thank all my ledge compadres for sharing of their good fortune and bounty over these years. Without you I would still be cursing that site's unavailability to me.

vinnie c

[slipkid]

I'm doing a P G's FM tribute, where are you from man, get over here I love drummers who loves guitar porn....:-)

/z


Well, I live on the east coast of the U.S., twenty mins. from Philadelphia. Since you're in Europe "getting over there" isn't that easy. If you were inviting me to play in your PG FM tribute I would've loved the opportunity.

[zoork_1]

Thanks Vinnie and Wouter, and I would love to visit Holland!

The only thing I have on internet is a pickup mod soundclip at YouTube... :-(
(the fact that people still listen to it have made me deside to put up something else, but I can't say when)

Slipkid, we'll have to work on that :-)

[Ms Moose]

Hi Vinnie, if things work out well we'll play Stockholm, Gothenburg, Lund and Halmstad spring 2009. I wouldn't mind going to USA, Germany, Denmark, etc, etc..... :-)

Best regards
/Michel

Please let us know when you will be playing in Lund, zoork. It is easy to get there from Copenhagen!

Ms Moose

[zoork_1]

Please let us know when you will be playing in Lund...[...]

Thanks Ms Moose, I'll let you know, also hope to meet you there...:thumbsup:

/z

[Cussion]

Nice to hear some amp geek talk! :D

Judging by live pictures it seems like Peter, Danny and Jeremy used a bunch of different Fender amps over the years. Early pictures shows Peter with a Vox amp, probably an AC50 or the bass version called Foundation Bass. Then , according to Jeremy, Peter got a Fender Bassman amp and cabinet. I've seen pictures of Danny playing through a blonde Fender head, probably a Bandmaster, but there's also a picture of him in the Blue Horizon Box, playing through a blackface Super Reverb. Then of course they had the ORANGE Matamp period. Late '68 to about mid '69. Shrine ´69 is probably the best recorded example of the Orange amp sound, at it's best! In late '69, early '70 Peter and Danny got Dual Showmans with separate speaker cabinets. Somebody told me that Peter used 12" speakers while Danny used 15" speakers. Jeremy used Twin Reverbs, also with extension cabs. When Peter quit, it seems like Danny and Jeremy kept on using the Fender amps. At least it sounds like that on the "Madison Blues" live box. When Bob Welch joined Danny moved to Hiwatt (and Orange) amps, according to Bob himself. Bob played through Fenders. I guess they didn't want too similar tones. A Strat for Bob, and a Les Paul Black Beauty for Danny. Those were the days!! :)

[doodyhead]

Times were a lot simpler then

but it was way crazy enough for them and me

doodyhead remembers
Nice to hear some amp geek talk! :D

Judging by live pictures it seems like Peter, Danny and Jeremy used a bunch of different Fender amps over the years. Early pictures shows Peter with a Vox amp, probably an AC50 or the bass version called Foundation Bass. Then , according to Jeremy, Peter got a Fender Bassman amp and cabinet. I've seen pictures of Danny playing through a blonde Fender head, probably a Bandmaster, but there's also a picture of him in the Blue Horizon Box, playing through a blackface Super Reverb. Then of course they had the ORANGE Matamp period. Late '68 to about mid '69. Shrine ´69 is probably the best recorded example of the Orange amp sound, at it's best! In late '69, early '70 Peter and Danny got Dual Showmans with separate speaker cabinets. Somebody told me that Peter used 12" speakers while Danny used 15" speakers. Jeremy used Twin Reverbs, also with extension cabs. When Peter quit, it seems like Danny and Jeremy kept on using the Fender amps. At least it sounds like that on the "Madison Blues" live box. When Bob Welch joined Danny moved to Hiwatt (and Orange) amps, according to Bob himself. Bob played through Fenders. I guess they didn't want too similar tones. A Strat for Bob, and a Les Paul Black Beauty for Danny. Those were the days!! :)

[zoork_1]

Nice to hear some amp geek talk...[...]


Agreed, Cussion

BTW, I've been watching the clips from France 1968 over and over again, blond amps, but I still can't tell if they're Bandmaster, Showmans, etc.

I always thought P G used 15" speakers, perhaps it's time for me to stop looking for a "stinkin' heavy" 2 x 15 cabinet.... :laugh:

There's really something special with the guitar sound at Shrine, I get the feeling tone controls are set to zero e.g. on Rollin' Man

/z

[Dogon]

Agreed, Cussion

BTW, I've been watching the clips from France 1968 over and over again, blond amps, but I still can't tell if they're Bandmaster, Showmans, etc.

I always thought P G used 15" speakers, perhaps it's time for me to stop looking for a "stinkin' heavy" 2 x 15 cabinet.... :laugh:

There's really something special with the guitar sound at Shrine, I get the feeling tone controls are set to zero e.g. on Rollin' Man

/z

I think you should stick to the 2x15 cabinet hunt if you're looking for "the real thing", Zoork. I'm pretty sure PG used - not one, but - two Dual Showmans with two 2x15 cabinets, at least on parts of his last tour with Fleetwood Mac. Here's a pic from Stockholm, April 1, 1970, showing him in front of his double setup, here playing his 6-string bass but he sure used the same equipment for his LP. On the pic you cannot actually see that the cab's are 2x15 but to my memory it has always been. I remember being surprised over the fact that he used cabinets that usually was used by bass players, but it sure sounded alright......:]

[zoork_1]

I think you should stick to the 2x15 cabinet hunt if you're looking for "the real thing" ...[...]

I'll do that Dogon!

The picture is really cool, who is the photographer, you????

Why not me, where were Iiii ......!

[Ms Moose]

I'll do that Dogon!

The picture is really cool, who is the photographer, you????

Why not me, where were Iiii ......!

Yes, where on earth is that picture from Dogon? There is not often any new pictures about and I haven't seen this before.

[Cussion]

I think you should stick to the 2x15 cabinet hunt if you're looking for "the real thing", Zoork. I'm pretty sure PG used - not one, but - two Dual Showmans with two 2x15 cabinets, at least on parts of his last tour with Fleetwood Mac. Here's a pic from Stockholm, April 1, 1970, showing him in front of his double setup, here playing his 6-string bass but he sure used the same equipment for his LP. On the pic you cannot actually see that the cab's are 2x15 but to my memory it has always been. I remember being surprised over the fact that he used cabinets that usually was used by bass players, but it sure sounded alright......:]

Yeah! Very cool and rare picture!
That must've been from their show at Konserthuset. I'm living in Stockholm by the way.. ;)

[Dogon]

Yes, I took the picture myself, with the camera in one hand, the microphone in the other and overwhelmed myself in the middle. :)
The location was Konserthuset in Stockholm, April 1, 1970.
Glad you liked the pic, here's another one, beware of the poor quality:

[Wouter Vuijk]

Yes, I took the picture myself, with the camera in one hand, the microphone in the other and overwhelmed myself in the middle. :)
The location was Konserthuset in Stockholm, April 1, 1970.
Glad you liked the pic, here's another one, beware of the poor quality:

Do you happen to be this Mr. Len (see the attachment)? :confused:
Do you have any more pictures, I sure like the two you've already shown us. As for the quality, poor is better than none.

[zoork_1]

Yes, I took the picture myself, with the camera in one hand, the microphone in the other ...[...]

Dogon, I think it's a phenomenal picture!

/z

[Dogon]

Do you happen to be this Mr. Len (see the attachment)? :confused:
Do you have any more pictures, I sure like the two you've already shown us. As for the quality, poor is better than none.

No Wouter, I'm not Mr Len. There must have been two of us, at least, with a tape recorder in the audience that night.
I know I took some more picture's, will se if I can find them.
However, the picture on your attachement is not from the Stockholm April 1, -70 consert. Think it's London June -70 when PG arranged that multi guitarist gig at one of the clubs there. Didn't Celmin mention that occasion in the biography?

[Dogon]

Dogon, I think it's a phenomenal picture!

/z

Thank you Zoork, you're to kind!:)

BTW I have what I promised you a long time ago ready, as soon as I reach home again.

[zoork_1]

[...]...I have what I promised you a long time ago ready, as soon as I reach home again.

Great to hear, thanks......!

[zoork_1]

[..]... Any chance of seeing or hearing your band by means of internet?

Well, here's a chance of seeing and hearing me & my Les Paul... :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trl3ixKP-qM

[doodyhead]

nice sweet playing, beautiful instrument

u da man



doodyhead

[kowk]

nice sweet playing, beautiful instrument
doodyhead

Hi,
really fine playing :)

I'd like to let you know that our friend doodyhead is also a great player.
You can listen to his playing at:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/melvinnie

Cheers
Krzysztof

[Wouter Vuijk]

Well, here's a chance of seeing and hearing me & my Les Paul... :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trl3ixKP-qM

Verryyy niiiiice:thumbsup:.
Did you rewire your Les Paul? And what amp did you use here?

Cheers:wavey:

[zoork_1]

[...]...Did you rewire your Les Paul? And what amp did you use here?

Thanks doodyhead, Krzysztof and Wouter for your kind words, and yes Wouter. I use the 1958 Les Paul wiring (plus the out of phase mod). Amp is my Fender Bandmaster 1967 through a 4 x 10 Marshall cabinet.

Best regards to all of you (and Merry Christmas in advance)

/z