NBC: Obama chooses Biden as running mate [Archive]

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estranged4life

08-23-2008, 01:11 AM

Foreign Relations Committee chairman has globe-trotting credentials

WASHINGTON - Delaware Senator Joe Biden is Barack Obama's choice to be his vice presidential running mate, NBC News has confirmed.

Biden, who has served in the Senate since being elected at the age of 29, is the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee and will add his foreign policy expertise to the Democratic ticket.

In recent years, he has traveled to Afghanistan and Pakistan two times and to Iraq eight times. He returned Monday from a fact-finding trip to Georgia.

The McCain camp was quick to react. "There has been no harsher critic of Barack Obama's lack of experience than Joe Biden. Biden has denounced Barack Obama's poor foreign policy judgment and has strongly argued in his own words what Americans are quickly realizing - that Barack Obama is not ready to be president," McCain spokesman Ben Porritt said early Saturday morning.

At age 65, the Delaware senator is nearly 20 years older than Obama.

He has endured tragedy and near death: Five weeks after he won his Senate seat in 1972, his wife and infant daughter were killed in a car accident.

And in 1988, he suffered a brain aneurysm and nearly died.

Biden’s voting record is in line with many Senate Democrats: He voted in 2003 to authorize President Bush to use military force in Iraq, and he also voted against the Bush tax cuts and against Republican Supreme Court nominees William Rehnquist, Robert Bork, Clarence Thomas, John Roberts and Samuel Alito.

He has run twice for the Democratic presidential nomination, once in 1988 and again this year.

He was forced to exit the 1988 race after he was caught having borrowed portions of a speech by British Labor Party leader Neil Kinnock — without giving him credit.

In 1987, as the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Biden managed the Senate’s rejection of Bork, a conservative Supreme Court nominee by Ronald Reagan.

But some Democrats still blame Biden for allowing Thomas to win confirmation to the high court in 1991.

Reputation for verbosity
Biden has a reputation for verbosity. He often prefaces his questions to witnesses before his committee with remarks such as, “All kidding aside…” or “I don’t mean to be cute, but...”

He got less than glowing reviews in 2006 for his questioning of Alito during his confirmation hearings.

At one point Biden rambled on about Alito’s alma mater, Princeton.

“I really didn't like Princeton,” Biden told Alito. “I was an Irish Catholic kid who thought it had not changed…I admit, one of my real dilemmas is I have two kids who went to Ivy League schools. I'm not sure my Grandfather Finnegan will ever forgive me for allowing that to happen. But all kidding aside, I wasn't a big Princeton fan.”

The Delaware Democrat’s long-windedness occasionally leads him to make remarks that prove to be embarrassing.

In 2007, he seemed to be talking down to Obama by calling him “clean” and “articulate.”

In 2006 he said, “In Delaware, the largest growth in population is Indian-Americans moving from India. You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I'm not joking.”

Intensely personal campaigner
Biden is an effusive, wisecracking, and often intensely personal campaigner. No Democratic politician is more literally "in your face" with voters.

At a campaign breakfast in Iowa in 2007, he claimed credit for getting money appropriated to build a new type of armored vehicle that reduced casualties from roadside explosives in Iraq by 70 percent.

Walking into the audience, Biden got six inches away from one woman’s face.

Biting off his words, Biden vehemently told her, “I will not cut one single solitary cent of the money that we need to build those vehicles to protect these kids — and they cost billions of dollars.”

During his bid for the nomination last year, Biden criticized Obama and Sen. Hillary Clinton.

“Both Hillary and Barack didn’t get it right,” Biden said, when they had their “little spat” on whether a president could order a unilateral attack on terrorists in Pakistan or Afghanistan.

Biden said Obama “didn’t know it was already U.S. policy” but “was attempting understandably to show more strength” on military matters.

And he criticized Obama and former Sen. John Edwards for “playing the populism card, the idea that rich are bad, poor are good, the nobility of America lies in the poor. I think that’s a losing general election argument; I think it’s a losing argument, period.”

He argued, “The rich are as patriotic as the poor, if you ask of them.”

Biden also parted company from Obama in a May 2007 vote on cutting off funds for operations in Iraq.

“I knew what the political vote was — it was to vote ‘no,’” Biden explained a few months later. “I had bets with my staff that every one of the senators who were running (for president) would vote against it, even though they knew better. I went ahead and voted for the funding.”

Presidential contenders Obama, Clinton and Sen. Chris Dodd were among the 14 senators who voted no on funding.

Biden has not always taken the predictable liberal Democratic line: He surprised some of his fellow Democrats in 1975 when he advocated a measure to ban the use of busing to school integration. He argued that busing was counter-productive.

Biden has begun a political dynasty in Delaware: his son Beau was elected state attorney general in 2006.

Biden commutes to the nation’s capitol everyday from Wilmington on Amtrak.

NBC News' Kelly O'Donnell and the Associated Press contributed to this report.

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26010055/?GT1=43001

gldstwmn

08-23-2008, 01:55 AM

Here's what makes this so lame. The "change" candidate picks Biden, who voted yes on the Iraq War resolution. Obama could have picked Hillary, who had the same IWR vote and she would have unified the party. I don't see what Biden brings to the table in terms of votes, as he is from Delaware. He is just an insurance policy for Obama in that if anything happens to Obama, Biden is the older white guy who assumes the role of president. We had an opportunity for a truly diverse ticket but end up with two men - again. I believe the report that Hillary was not even vetted. Huge mistake. This party is like the gang that couldn't shoot straight. :distress:

BombaySapphire3

08-23-2008, 02:06 AM

I think he is a better choice than her. Of course I would have preferred Dennis Kucinich but we know where that would have gotten us..It seems the disgruntled Hillary supporters may cost us the election ..Hell hath no fury.....

Steviefan49

08-23-2008, 02:12 AM

DavidMn

08-23-2008, 02:13 AM

Biden's just a total fossil. I mean i seriously dont get it.:shrug:

BombaySapphire3

08-23-2008, 02:21 AM

Biden's just a total fossil. I mean i seriously dont get it.:shrug:

He needed someone older and more experienced to counterbalance the even bigger fossil on the top of the Repub ticket.

DavidMn

08-23-2008, 02:24 AM

He needed someone older and more experienced to counterbalance the even bigger fossil on the top of the Repub ticket.
I think Evan Bayh would have been a much better choice personally.

BombaySapphire3

08-23-2008, 02:34 AM

I think Evan Bayh would have been a much better choice personally.

Now that I can agree with.

TrueFaith77

08-23-2008, 02:52 AM

Generally I avoid politics on music boards, but I was awakened by my cell phone text message. SO: I personally like Biden -- he was my favorite of the dems running for prez nomination. However, this choice bothers me. To me, and I might be proved wrong, it suggests that Obama has Al-Gore-itis. He doesn't seem to have the eye of the tiger. He should have chosen Hillary -- as a grand gesture, as a sign of toughness ("I can handle the Clintons"), as a way to attract her constinuency, as a way to electrify attention. In other words, Hillary guarantees a win. Biden doesn't budge the numbers (dude got like 1% of votes in Iowa). After all this hype -- the thing Obama is skilled at -- it's a. . . letdown. What will his presidency be like? IF he wins. (My money is on McCain.) That's my initial response.

strandinthewind

08-23-2008, 04:17 AM

Musicman408

08-23-2008, 08:45 AM

I think Evan Bayh would have been a much better choice personally.

Yes, but I think Hillary would've been the best. Not gonna lie, I am hugely disapointed in this. I think he really made a crap choice and f*cked up his chances.:distress:

David

08-23-2008, 09:55 AM

Biden? What a shmuck. What is it with these career politicians? Why don't they go get actual jobs at some point, or retire?

The lure of power & position is too great. . . .

David

08-23-2008, 10:04 AM

And he criticized Obama and former Sen. John Edwards for “playing the populism card, the idea that rich are bad, poor are good, the nobility of America lies in the poor. I think that’s a losing general election argument; I think it’s a losing argument, period.”Hey, good for Biden! It's what Bertrand Russell called the "fallacy of the superior virtue of the oppressed." I didn't know Biden had it in him (logic, that is).

He argued, “The rich are as patriotic as the poor, if you ask of them.”Some are, some aren't -- as is true of any faction. And let's all stop yabbing about patriotism for a couple of months or so. Like good breeding, it's tired & phony-baloney when it's proclaimed publicly at every turn & used as a wedge issue.

TrueFaith77

08-23-2008, 10:55 AM

Yes, but I think Hillary would've been the best. Not gonna lie, I am hugely disapointed in this. I think he really made a crap choice and f*cked up his chances.:distress:

I agree. What Obama missed (because the media didn't direct him!) was that those who voted for Hillary want an indication from him that he hears them (the reasons for which I'm not gonna get into here). Choosing Hillary would have provided that signal. That's probably why he's given her such slack with the convention. But I don't think that will be enough (let's see how that catharsis works). 2012 probably starts Tuesday.

gldstwmn

08-23-2008, 12:29 PM

I agree. What Obama missed (because the media didn't direct him!) was that those who voted for Hillary want an indication from him that he hears them (the reasons for which I'm not gonna get into here). Choosing Hillary would have provided that signal. That's probably why he's given her such slack with the convention. But I don't think that will be enough (let's see how that catharsis works). 2012 probably starts Tuesday.

Yep. I'm still voting for this ticket but there are plenty of other Hillary supporters that aren't. They are referring to themselves as PUMA (Party Unity My Ass). Then there are the folks in Michigan and Florida who feel they were disenfranchised by that primary debacle. Howard Dean did a good job with the House and Senate races in '06 but he needs to be run out of the party if he thinks this is a good ticket. I'd walk down the street and tell him so but I just passed a bunch of cops in full riot gear at Speer and Zuni. And the Secret Service is parked down the street again. :o :laugh:

estranged4life

08-23-2008, 12:38 PM

He is just an insurance policy for Obama in that if anything happens to Obama, Biden is the older white guy who assumes the role of president.

Dave Chappelle said in one of his comedy specials I own on DVD:

"I feel sorry for the first 'brotha' who runs for president. The second 'brotha' should be alright, but the first will have it hard, man. He should have a Hispanic become his running mate as an 'insurance policy', that way if anyone decided to harm him it will be 'open border' time when President 'Sanchez' is sworn in." :laugh:

Brian "Satan/Shatner in 2008 - Pure Evil and bad acting....Just like in Washington DC NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!" j.

gldstwmn

08-23-2008, 12:49 PM

Roseanne Barr's latest blog. Pure entertainment as always:

democrats want to lose

and therefore did not fully vet the candidate they shoved down everyone's throat. I am the first blogger to blog about Obama's abortion vote and how it would become the october surprise...they have michelle obama on tape defending live birth abortion, and raising money for it too...(they called this "the whitey" tape, but its far better than just that kind of a boring thing...she is on tape defending sucking the brains out of babies who live through late term abortions). This is the greatest gift pelosi and dean can give to the republicans they work for. It took alot of doing in order to throw this election to the republicans after iraq, katrina, and the economy, but pelosi and dean found a way!

Oprah Winfrey always gets her republican friends elected!! She and she alone split the woman's vote, thereby destabilizing the entire party and fracturing it forever along racial and gender lines. It is estimated that her endorsement of Obama swung over one million women's votes from Hillary, who remains the only candidate who polls to win against mccain. Oprah can rest well now knowing that her dogs will not have to pay inheritance tax over the next four years if she dies. However, in 2012, when dean pelosi and the rest of the traitors are out of jobs, and Hillary again runs for president, wins, and changes inheritance taxes to cover health care costs, we will have a nice drink to the end of the Oprah Winfrey "pray to angels instead of protest injustice" method of female stinkthink.
My great hope is that the green party will have overrun the democratic party by that time, and made its entire platform green instead of corporate controlled. I am voting for cynthia mckinney for president.

http://www.eurweb.com/story/eur46343.cfm

gldstwmn

08-23-2008, 12:55 PM

Dave Chappelle said in one of his comedy specials I own on DVD:

"I feel sorry for the first 'brotha' who runs for president. The second 'brotha' should be alright, but the first will have it hard, man. He should have a Hispanic become his running mate as an 'insurance policy', that way if anyone decided to harm him it will be 'open border' time when President 'Sanchez' is sworn in." :laugh:

Brian "Satan/Shatner in 2008 - Pure Evil and bad acting....Just like in Washington DC NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!" j.

Chapelle is a bright, funny guy. I don't know what the hell went down with that show he had but I wish him well.
All the Obama campaign has to do now is have him ride around in a tank and have McCain run ads about Willie Horton. I think it's going to be that disastrous. Brace yourselves for the McCain/Mittens administration.

strandinthewind

08-23-2008, 01:03 PM

I think Obama was an idiot for pissing off Michigan and Florida and it is going to bite him in the rear. I am still going to vote for the ticket, but I do so begrudgingly and for the sake of a better Supreme Court.

BombaySapphire3

08-23-2008, 01:12 PM

All the Obama campaign has to do now is have him ride around in a tank and have McCain run ads about Willie Horton. I think it's going to be that disastrous. Brace yourselves for the McCain/Mittens administration.

Sheesh and I always thought I was pessimistic..I'll repeat what I have been saying all along Hillary was never going to be the VP pic..Mitt Romney chills me to the bone .I think he is a liar and a sociopath and I believe he will be McCains pick.The thought of Mitt in the White House makes me actually wish for another term of the Chimp, thus far the worst President in modern times. that is how badly I despise Romney..If Hillary supporters have that much of a Medea complex that they would support such and odious ticket then the fallout from such a terrible administration as "McCain/Miitens " will be on their hands.

estranged4life

08-23-2008, 01:17 PM

I am still undecided between THOSE two parties and their candidates....May either waste my vote on someone guaranteed to not have a chance (ie - Green Party/Independent) or do as the great George Carlin said to do when a presidential election time rolls around "Sit at home and jerkoff...At least I will have something to show for it." :laugh:

Brian "Only 4 years and 4 months left til the world ends 12/12/12" j.

gldstwmn

08-23-2008, 01:47 PM

gldstwmn

08-23-2008, 01:48 PM

Sheesh and I always thought I was pessimistic..I'll repeat what I have been saying all along Hillary was never going to be the VP pic..Mitt Romney chills me to the bone .I think he is a liar and a sociopath and I believe he will be McCains pick.The thought of Mitt in the White House makes me actually wish for another term of the Chimp, thus far the worst President in modern times. that is how badly I despise Romney..If Hillary supporters have that much of a Medea complex that they would support such and odious ticket then the fallout from such a terrible administration as "McCain/Miitens " will be on their hands.

You should tell that to Howard Dean. I'm just calling it as I see it, pessimistic or not. This is the worst ticket I've seen, completely wrong for the times we live in now. And I'm voting for these mofos. :laugh:
Obama needs to acknowledge the 50% of the party that didn't vote for him and let them know that he is representing their interest too. His wife should have warned him about the women's vote, if all of his paid strategists didn't. I think he's too damn arrogant.

TrueFaith77

08-23-2008, 01:53 PM

strandinthewind

08-23-2008, 02:39 PM

Yeah. Maybe Clarence Thomas will retire.

If he does, good riddence. But, I must then question how Scalia will then clean his a$$ after he takes a shiitte :eek:

Steviefan49

08-23-2008, 03:16 PM

You should tell that to Howard Dean. I'm just calling it as I see it, pessimistic or not. This is the worst ticket I've seen, completely wrong for the times we live in now. And I'm voting for these mofos. :laugh:
Obama needs to acknowledge the 50% of the party that didn't vote for him and let them know that he is representing their interest too. His wife should have warned him about the women's vote, if all of his paid strategists didn't. I think he's too damn arrogant.

Amen again Chris.. but instead of "arrogant" I would replace that word with "Ignorant" -:wavey:

Lee

08-23-2008, 04:53 PM

strandinthewind

08-23-2008, 05:05 PM

I don't usually get into politics too much, & I didn't really care who Obama picked as his VP because I'd vote for him regardless. I'm from Delaware, born & raised in Delaware & have voted for Joe Biden. I think of him as an asset to Obama (as he is an asset to the senate & the state of Delaware) & the Democratic party. He's a very experienced senator, knows foreign policy, & likes to talk :laugh:. I think Obama made a good choice. :thumbsup:

Lee :)

I think JB is a good guy. I just think Hillary would have been a better choice because she seemingly has millions of votes at her command. But, she likely will be campaigning hard for Obama. Also, it is entirely possible that Obama asked Hillary and she declined. I think that siutation is plausible becuase Hillary likely thinks Obama may lose. Moreover, she really has nothing to gain by being the VP. In a way, she already was when she was the very hands on First Lady.

BombaySapphire3

08-23-2008, 05:14 PM

I think you might be right. What's with that??

I understand that political expediency requires politicians to change postions but Mitt was the governer of Massachusetts!Probably the most homogeneously liberal of all states.So Romney had to completely reverse himself on multiple positions to run for President..In general he seems to lack any semblance of humanity IMO..I don't dislike John McCain ..I think he is a decent human being but the idea of having this this thing ,Mitt Romney, one 72 year old cancer survivor's hearbeat away from the Presidency is making me feel very sick to my stomach.

SuzeQuze

08-23-2008, 05:20 PM

I think you might be right. What's with that??

Yeah, I don't like him either, but it's more of a gut reaction - intuition, than anything specific I can put my finger on. BombaySapphire3, why do you think he is a sociopath?

BombaySapphire3

08-23-2008, 05:28 PM

Yeah, I don't like him either, but it's more of a gut reaction - intuition, than anything specific I can put my finger on. BombaySapphire3, why do you think he is a sociopath?

Maybe it's just my 20 years of experience as a psychiatric nurse working in a forensic facility and alot of contact with that particular personality type ..I just get that vibe off of him ..like yourself kind a of a gut feeling that something is wrong, my hunch is there is some sociopathy there.I just hope McCain picks someone else which doesn't seem likely and if he doesn't I desperately hope they lose in November.

Serrart

08-23-2008, 06:53 PM

BombaySapphire3

08-23-2008, 11:03 PM

He made a choice clearly thinking to the more conservatives in the population, but I think he underrated his potential voters, and proved once again his total inadequacy to be president, mainly for inexperience, then for arrogance.

Romy

Joe Biden is one of the more liberal members of the Senate and to the left of Hillary..if he was trying to placate consevatives he'd have chosen Sam Nunn a Democrat in name only..and he is not underrating potential voters . Most voters in this country are far to the right by European standards .What else could explain 21% of Hillary supporters willing to switch to McCain and his horrible .horrible running mate Mitt Romney?Just how is Obama arrogant, because he didn't pick Hillary?I'd much prefer to have someone with less experience than someone willing to continue the Iraqi war interminably and willing to choose a nightmare of a VP the likes of Mitt Romney.

SuzeQuze

08-24-2008, 12:24 AM

Maybe it's just my 20 years of experience as a psychiatric nurse working in a forensic facility and alot of contact with that particular personality type ..I just get that vibe off of him ..like yourself kind a of a gut feeling that something is wrong, my hunch is there is some sociopathy there.I just hope McCain picks someone else which doesn't seem likely and if he doesn't I desperately hope they lose in November.

It was so weird when he became governor here in MA. I thought people had been drugged or something. He made no sense as governor here. I think people voted for the image he projected not actually paying attention to who he is. The image of a good-looking, middle-aged, white guy who is in control and has money and power. Yeah, I don't like him. What a bizarre ticket they have with McCain and Romney. Just odd. Seriously, that's the best they can do?

gldstwmn

08-24-2008, 12:39 AM

BombaySapphire3

08-24-2008, 01:06 AM

It was so weird when he became governor here in MA. I thought people had been drugged or something. He made no sense as governor here. I think people voted for the image he projected not actually paying attention to who he is. The image of a good-looking, middle-aged, white guy who is in control and has money and power. Yeah, I don't like him. What a bizarre ticket they have with McCain and Romney. Just odd. Seriously, that's the best they can do?

I was so relieved when he did not get the nomination and now that relief is turning to a terrible feeling of foreboding ..I know he is not the official VP choice yet but I fear he will be..I would prefer that McCain pick literally just about anyone no matter how much of a rightwingnut they are over this man..I can't stand Bush and never could even before he ruined the country but really I'd take him over Romney in an instant.:distress:

Serrart

08-24-2008, 10:14 AM

Joe Biden is one of the more liberal members of the Senate and to the left of Hillary..if he was trying to placate consevatives he'd have chosen Sam Nunn a Democrat in name only..and he is not underrating potential voters . Most voters in this country are far to the right by European standards .What else could explain 21% of Hillary supporters willing to switch to McCain and his horrible .horrible running mate Mitt Romney?Just how is Obama arrogant, because he didn't pick Hillary?I'd much prefer to have someone with less experience than someone willing to continue the Iraqi war interminably and willing to choose a nightmare of a VP the likes of Mitt Romney.

Well, I'm European and I would have voted for Hillary, but I'm not sure I'd vote for Obama, where's the substance in this man? I just hope that if he would be elected, the people who would take decisions in his place would be experienced enough.

Romy

David

08-24-2008, 10:30 AM

. . . willing to choose a nightmare of a VP the likes of Mitt Romney.Romney is a typical buttinski: If my doctor prescribes marijuana for my pain (from cancer or something else), it's none of Romney's business. This trend of activist conservatives, pushing their noses into everyone's homes, is as distressing as the trend of activist, buttinski collectivists.

BombaySapphire3

08-24-2008, 10:46 AM

Well, I'm European and I would have voted for Hillary, but I'm not sure I'd vote for Obama, where's the substance in this man? I just hope that if he would be elected, the people who would take decisions in his place would be experienced enough.

Romy

I don't find too much of a problem with Obama's descions ..he after all came out against the Iraqi invasion before it even happened.

strandinthewind

08-24-2008, 11:01 AM

Well, I'm European and I would have voted for Hillary, but I'm not sure I'd vote for Obama, where's the substance in this man? I just hope that if he would be elected, the people who would take decisions in his place would be experienced enough.

Romy

It is unfair to say McCain wants to stay in Iraq for a hundred years. He did not really say that. What he said was this:

McCain, town hall meeting, Jan. 3:

Maybe a hundred. ... We’ve been in Japan for 60 years. We’ve been in South Korea for 50 years or so. That would be fine with me, as long as Americans, as long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed. It’s fine with me and I hope it would be fine with you if we maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world.

He clearly is not talking about the combat troops that are there today. to wit:

DNC vs. McCain

April 29, 2008

Two Democratic Party TV ads hit McCain on Iraq and the economy. We supply context and corrections.

Summary

The Democratic National Committee has produced two TV ads against McCain, hoping to soften him up while the party figures out who its own presidential nominee will be.

One ad shows selected portions of McCain's comments that a 100-year U.S. presence in Iraq would be "fine with me." The ad uses dramatic images of war and violence, and omits any mention that McCain was speaking of a peaceful presence like that in Japan or Korea.

An earlier ad attacks McCain for saying the nation's economy is "prosperous" and "better off overall" than eight years ago. The ad uses a couple of incorrect statistics to argue otherwise. It says the country has lost 1.8 million jobs when, in fact, it has gained nearly 5.4 million, and it says gasoline prices have risen 200 percent, when the actual figure is 139 percent.

Analysis

The latest DNC ad was released April 27 and is set to start running on cable networks next week. An earlier ad has been running lightly on cable since April 20. Both are aimed at raising doubts about Sen. John McCain as he campaigns for the White House – and while Democrats are still trying to sort out whether Sen. Barack Obama or Sen. Hillary Clinton will be their standard-bearer. The DNC is using both ads in fundraising appeals, asking the party faithful to donate money to buy broadcast time for them. It calls the Iraq ad "one of the most powerful television spots Americans will see this year."

Choosing His Words Carefully

The latest ad follows up on a DNC fundraising e-mail, which we critiqued in February, portraying McCain as willing to fight an "endless war" in Iraq.

Offscreen voice: President Bush has talked about our staying in Iraq for 50 years.

On screen graphic: Senator McCain. President Bush has talked about our staying in Iraq for 50 years.

McCain: Maybe a hundred. That'd be fine with me.
On screen: 100 years in Iraq.
On screen: 5 years. $500 billion. Over 4,000 dead.
Offscreen voice: President Bush has talked about our staying in Iraq for 50 years.
McCain: Maybe 100.
Narrator: If all he offers is more of the same, is John McCain the right choice for America's future?
On screen: Is John McCain the right choice for America's future?
Narrator: The Democratic National Committee is responsible for the content of this advertising.

It opens with a shot of McCain onstage at a town hall meeting in January. An offscreen voice says President Bush has discussed keeping U.S. troops "in Iraq for 50 years." We see McCain saying, "Maybe a hundred." Pause. "That'd be fine with me." Then we hear an explosion and sirens, accompanied by video of cars on fire, plumes of smoke and general chaos in an obviously dangerous setting. The words "Maybe a hundred" appear on the screen, followed by "5 years," "$500 billion" and "Over 4,000 killed."

The clear implication is that if McCain is elected, we can expect to be battling in Iraq for many decades to come. But the admakers cut off the rest of McCain's response, which provides some badly needed context:

McCain, town hall meeting, Jan. 3: Maybe a hundred. ... We’ve been in Japan for 60 years. We’ve been in South Korea for 50 years or so. That would be fine with me, as long as Americans, as long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed. It’s fine with me and I hope it would be fine with you if we maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world.

The DNC ad doesn't mention that McCain was speaking specifically about a peacetime presence. And the text of the ad paired with images of Iraq under siege leave a clear impression that McCain proposes to allow a century more of war, with U.S. involvement. That's not what he said, in New Hampshire or in other settings when he's been asked about it.

Republicans have called the ad a distortion, but DNC Chairman Howard Dean defended it, saying in an NBC News "Meet the Press" interview on Sunday:

Dean, April 27: First of all, we're not arguing that he's going to be at war for a hundred years. We don't think we ought to be in Iraq for a hundred years under any circumstances. Think of the hundreds of billions of dollars that are being spent in Iraq, which we need right here at home right now to preserve American jobs. That's the first thing.

Secondly, if Senator McCain believes that you can occupy a country like Iraq for a hundred years without having a long war and violence and our troops being hurt and, and killed, I think Senator McCain is wrong. ... [D]oes anyone think, who's watching this show, that if you keep our troops in Iraq for a hundred years, people won't be attacking them and won't be setting off suicide bombs and won't be having militias go after them? I don't think so. And most Americans don't think so.

Dean is correct in one sense. His ad doesn't say in so many words that McCain is "going to be at war for a hundred years." But by juxtaposing McCain's words with dramatic, violent images of war, it clearly leaves that impression.

It's one thing to argue, as Dean does, that McCain's position is a recipe for continued violence and bloodshed, whatever his stated intent. But it is another thing to misrepresent that intent. The ad twists the sense of McCain's words by showing images of war, when he was really talking about a peaceful troop presence. Imagine how different the ad would seem if it showed images of, say, American troops walking the streets of Tokyo or Seoul and had included what McCain said about "Americans ... not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed."

Anyone who didn't already know the fuller version of McCain's answer could easily be fooled into thinking that McCain would be perfectly happy to see the war continue. McCain has said quite clearly that he considers Democratic proposals for a quick withdrawal from Iraq to be "surrender," and so deadly fighting could well continue longer under a President McCain than under either a President Hillary Clinton or a President Obama. But what the DNC ad conveys is the opposite of what McCain said.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/dnc_vs_mccain.html

Interestingly, both Obama and McCain acknowledge that a military presence in Iraq will continue after the combat troop withdrawal

"I will remove all our combat troops. We will have troops [in Iraq] to protect our embassies and our civilian forces and we will engage in counter terroism activities."
--Barack Obama interview with New York Times, November 2007.

THe combat troops apparently should occur by 2011 if the current deal goes through - thus obviating Obama's plan and negating any suggestion that McCain will keep combat troops there for 100 years. Thus, if this deal goes through, there is no significant difference in the two candidates' plans for troop withdrawls from Iraq. Moreover, it makes Obama look like an a$$ for not voting for the surge. Once agan, the R's appear to have outsmarted the D's on an issue the D's should have easily won.

strandinthewind

08-24-2008, 11:05 AM

I don't find too much of a problem with Obama's descions ..he after all came out against the Iraqi invasion before it even happened.

Which was easy to do when you are not in Congress at the time and, therefore, there is no real ramifications of your vote.

Moreover, his vote against the surge will look unwise. I get that the need for the surge was entirely W's fault for not having enough troops there to begin with, as many if not most of his advisors advised him from the beginning. But, the surge was needed and it worked for the most part. Now, there appears to be a plan for withdrawal. All of this deflates Obama's platform here and makes him look unready to be the Pres.

I know you are totally against the war in Iraq. But, in terms of the election, many people want America to emerge as some sort of winner, which the current proposal allows, and with merit to the declaration.

BombaySapphire3

08-24-2008, 11:06 AM

Romney is a typical buttinski: If my doctor prescribes marijuana for my pain (from cancer or something else), it's none of Romney's business. This trend of activist conservatives, pushing their noses into everyone's homes, is as distressing as the trend of activist, buttinski collectivists.

Indeed. If McCain makes that awful choice and then wins the election and abruptly buys the farm I think we may be in for an adminisration akin to the one in the film V for Vendetta ..scary stuff.

strandinthewind

08-24-2008, 11:10 AM

Indeed. If McCain makes that awful choice and then wins the election and abruptly buys the farm I think we may be in for an adminisration akin to the one in the film V for Vendetta ..scary stuff.

But, he did not do that in Mass. There was no military state there.

Note - I am not for Mitt R., but the idea that some sort of police state will suddenly emerge is inaccurate. They said that about W and it did not prove to be true. True, the capturees were held at Gitmo, but the Geneva Convention's protections did not apply to them as they were not part of an army, etc. One or two foreign US citizens were held without bail and HC, which I submit was wrong. But, that hardly a police state makes :shrug:

strandinthewind

08-24-2008, 11:25 AM

Analysis: Biden gives Obama old-school cred Story Highlights

Barack Obama chooses Sen. Joe Biden as his running mate

Biden was first elected to the Senate in 1972; chairs key committees

CNN's John King: He'll appeal to Catholic voters, working-class voters

Strategist Paul Begala: Biden needs to link McCain to Bush

By Ed Hornick

DENVER, Colorado (CNN) -- Sen. Barack Obama's choice of Sen. Joe Biden as his running mate raises the question of whether Obama can carry off his message of change with a seasoned Washington politician by his side.

Sen. Joe Biden was chosen Saturday as Barack Obama's running mate.

Biden brings to the table an ability to speak knowledgeably about issues ranging from foreign policy to to the country's domestic agenda.

The Delaware senator has held two of the most important jobs in Washington: chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee and chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. That could be reassuring to voters who worry about Obama's inexperience in national and world affairs.

Biden also has been an early and vociferous critic of President Bush's foreign policies, most notably regarding the war in Iraq.

He voted for the authorization to invade Iraq but conceded that it was a mistake. Obama opposed the authorization, and that gap might give Republicans something to highlight. Watch a former White House official weigh in on the Biden decision »

But Biden has personal ties to the war. His son Joseph "Beau" Biden, Delaware's attorney general, is a captain in the Army National Guard and will soon return to Iraq.

Nonetheless, his political experience spans 36 years, and some say that will create a problem for Obama's key talking point of change.

House Minority Leader John Boehner responded Saturday to Biden's new role, saying, "Americans looking for a pair of candidates who are ready to fix a broken Washington aren't going to find them on the Obama-Biden ticket."

Shortly after Obama announced Biden as his No. 2, Sen. John McCain's campaign reacted in a television ad showcasing Biden's comments attacking the Illinois senator.

The 30-second spot, set to air in key states, also highlights a 2005 interview of Biden in which he praised McCain: "I would be honored to run with or against John McCain, because I think the country would be better off." Watch McCain's new ad targeting Biden »

McCain campaign manager Rick Davis later responded to Obama's decision in an e-mail to supporters.

"Sen. Obama's choice in a running mate once again brings up his questionable judgment when faced with making major decisions," Davis wrote.

"Sen. Biden has long been a leading critic of Sen. Obama's lack of foreign policy experience. He's criticized Sen. Obama for his lack of leadership and judgment on Iraq, Afghanistan, and his commitment to meet unconditionally with the leaders of rogue states," he added.

McCain advisor Nancy Pfotenhauer told CNN's Wolf Blitzer on Saturday that Obama's decision "clearly showcases that Obama is aware that he lacks the experience, if you will, and the judgment in foreign policy arenas."

Obama has routinely criticized his GOP rival for being a Washington insider. McCain has charged that Obama is too inexperienced to run the country, especially its international affairs.

Biden himself touched on this when he was in the running as a presidential candidate. During a Democratic primary debate, moderator George Stephanopoulos of ABC News referred to Biden's criticism of Obama's experience.

"You were asked, 'Is he ready?' You said, 'I think he can be ready, but right now, I don't believe he is. The presidency is not something that lends itself to on-the-job training,' " Stephanopoulos said.

"I think I stand by that statement," Biden replied.

But in July, Biden said he would choose Obama's judgment over McCain's war record and foreign policy experience. Watch more on what Biden brings to the ticket »

"Twenty years of experience that has not been very solid in terms of projecting what was going to happen just doesn't make you a better commander in chief," Biden said, referring to McCain. "We don't need as a commander in chief a war hero. John's a war hero. We need someone with some wisdom."

So how does Biden help Obama politically? Biden is Roman Catholic. There are nearly 70 million Roman Catholics in the United States, about 20 percent of the electorate, and they can tip the balance in a close contest.

Biden also has roots in Pennsylvania, a swing state. Obama lost the state to Sen. Hillary Clinton in the primaries. Biden's support could help the campaign win the state in November. Watch Democrats react to Obama's choice »

"You're getting national security experience, you're getting enthusiasm, and you hope you're getting some help in those white, working-class, blue-collar towns where Barack Obama needs help," CNN Senior National Correspondent John King said.

"The rap on him is that he talks too long, his speeches don't end, and occasionally he goes off the reservation," King added.

CNN Senior Political Correspondent Candy Crowley says Biden is a "very one-on-one person" and "has a personal story as well: triumph over tragedy. ... He brings depth to this ticket."

Biden, 65, was first elected to the Senate at age 29 in 1972. Shortly after, his first wife and daughter were killed in a car accident. He weighed resigning but eventually decided to continue with his political career.

Biden's career has dogged by what some consider to be gaffes. Most notably, a comment he made about Obama received widespread criticism. Watch an iReporter weigh in on Biden »

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook," he said in an interview with the New York Observer newspaper, When faced with criticism, he defended the comment as a compliment taken out of context.

So, can Biden control his tendency to say too much? He is certainly trying.

In an April 27 primary debate, moderator Brian Williams of NBC News asked Biden, "an editorial in the Los Angeles Times said, 'In addition to his uncontrolled verbosity, Biden is a gaffe machine.' Can you reassure voters in this country that you would have the discipline you would need on the world stage, senator?"

Biden simply replied, "yes," eliciting much laughter.

Biden, known for his sharp wit, must now assume the traditional attack-dog role of the vice presidential candidate.

Democratic strategist and CNN contributor Paul Begala, said Saturday morning that he doesn't think Biden should be a "snarling" attack dog, however.

"Biden can help a lot by first reassuring and even more important, putting Bush and McCain on trial and showing that Barack Obama is change. That's what I think we'll see Joe Biden doing over the next couple of months," he said. Watch a former White House official weigh in on the Biden decision »

Shortly after the Obama-Biden ticket was announced early Saturday morning, Republican Sen. Dick Lugar of Indiana offered praise for his Senate colleague.

"I have enjoyed for many years the opportunity to work with Joe Biden to bring strong bipartisan support to United States foreign policy." Lugar said.

Lugar's comments on Biden's bipartisan appeal may hint at a theme the Obama-Biden campaign will highlight in the months to come: We can reach out to GOP and independent voters.

www.cnn.com

BombaySapphire3

08-24-2008, 11:30 AM

But, he did not do that in Mass. There was no military state there.

Note - I am not for Mitt R., but the idea that some sort of police state will suddenly emerge is inaccurate. They said that about W and it did not prove to be true. True, the capturees were held at Gitmo, but the Geneva Convention's protections did not apply to them as they were not part of an army, etc. One or two foreign US citizens were held without bail and HC, which I submit was wrong. But, that hardly a police state makes :shrug:

The Governership of a fairly small and very liberal sate is a far cry from the Presidency of the U.S...of course I may be a bit off but I have a terrible feeling about Romney .I don't even trust that he would have the best interests of this nation at heart and as much as I disagree with many of his policies I think McCain does .Again I feel worse about Romney than I have ever felt about W ,whom as you know I despise.on edit I also need to point out the total chameleonlike and opportunistic behavior of Romney that enabled him to be the Governer of Mass. and then go on to run for President in an about face of ideology in a very brief space of time the likes of which I have never witnessed .This totally begs the question of who the hell is Romney and what won't he do in a bid for power?I fervently hope that is a question we never have to find out the answer to.

KarmaContestant

08-25-2008, 10:55 AM

I'm OK with Biden... Not my first choice, but then it wasn't my choice to make. :laugh:

I saw an interesting news program yesterday with a couple fellows from Germany and France, and they were saying that recent polls in Europe show that if Obama was running to be President of the European Union, he'd win with an 80% landslide vote. I think that's amazing, and it underscores the vast differences in idealogy between the US and the EU.

The whole notion of Hillary suporters voting for McCain is nothing short of absurd. How can anyone who supposedly wanted to elect Hillary because of her political stance and her policy ideas ever agree with or support McCain? It's a total paradox.

gldstwmn

08-25-2008, 01:45 PM

I just got tickets to Obama's acceptance speech Thursday night! :]:blob1::blob2: The word is that Tim McGraw is the opening act and Bruce Springsteen is the closer! :woohoo:

BombaySapphire3

08-25-2008, 01:55 PM

I just got tickets to Obama's acceptance speech Thursday night! :]:blob1::blob2: The word is that Tim McGraw is the opening act and Bruce Springsteen is the closer! :woohoo:

Cool !..while not a huge fan of Tim McGraw I've always admired him for bucking the trend of mainstream country singers supporting Republicans.

TrueFaith77

08-25-2008, 01:55 PM

I heard it was bon jovi.

gldstwmn

08-25-2008, 02:08 PM

gldstwmn

08-25-2008, 02:11 PM

I heard it was bon jovi.

That works too. :laugh: :wavey:

BombaySapphire3

08-25-2008, 02:28 PM

The whole notion of Hillary suporters voting for McCain is nothing short of absurd. How can anyone who supposedly wanted to elect Hillary because of her political stance and her policy ideas ever agree with or support McCain? It's a total paradox.

I 'll say it again it is the Medea Complex .

strandinthewind

08-25-2008, 02:31 PM

strandinthewind

08-25-2008, 02:32 PM

I 'll say it again it is the Medea Complex .

Hell hath no fury . . . . :shrug:

BombaySapphire3

08-25-2008, 02:36 PM

Hell hath no fury . . . . :shrug:

Yeah I posted that too a couple of pages back ..bascially one and the same.

TrueFaith77

08-25-2008, 03:11 PM

nevermind i'm staying out of politics. :)

strandinthewind

08-25-2008, 03:55 PM

nevermind i'm staying out of politics. :)

Poppycock!!!!!!

Jump on in :cool:

Serrart

08-25-2008, 07:21 PM

I saw an interesting news program yesterday with a couple fellows from Germany and France, and they were saying that recent polls in Europe show that if Obama was running to be President of the European Union, he'd win with an 80% landslide vote. I think that's amazing, and it underscores the vast differences in idealogy between the US and the EU.

Really? I live in Europe and never heard of that poll. It's true though that Europeans, according to the polls done before and after Obama pop tour... I mean visit here, would prefer him to McCain as President of United States. I'm actually starting to think that Joe Biden would be a great Democratic president and Obama a good Vice president. Couldn't they switch places if I asked them politely? ;)

Romy

BombaySapphire3

08-25-2008, 07:39 PM

Really? I live in Europe and never heard of that poll. It's true though that Europeans, according to the polls done before and after Obama pop tour... I mean visit here, would prefer him to McCain as President of United States. I'm actually starting to think that Joe Biden would be a great Democratic president and Obama a good Vice president. Couldn't they switch places if I asked them politely?
WowI f you have that kind of influence could also you ask grampa McCain to please pick somebody ,anybody other than Mitt Romney?

GypsySorcerer

08-25-2008, 07:44 PM

WowI f you have that kind of influence could also you ask grampa McCain to please pick somebody ,anybody other than Mitt Romney?

Look, I'm no fan of Mitt Romney, but there are choices I shudder at more. Can you imagine Mike Huckabee or Fred Thompson one step from the Presidency?

strandinthewind

08-25-2008, 07:51 PM

Look, I'm no fan of Mitt Romney, but there are choices I shudder at more. Can you imagine Mike Huckabee or Fred Thompson one step from the Presidency?

I know. I mean Mit R. is not my fav. politician, but he did do some good things in Mass. Here are some good and bad things (footnotes omitted):

Romney was sworn in as the 70th governor of Massachusetts on January 2, 2003. Upon entering office, Romney faced a projected $3 billion deficit, but a previously enacted $1.3 billion capital gains tax increase and $500 million in unanticipated federal grants decreased the deficit to $1.2 billion.[46] Through a combination of spending cuts, increased fees, and removal of corporate tax loopholes, by 2006 the state had a $700 million surplus and was able to cut taxes.[47][48]

Romney supported raising various fees by more than $300 million, including raising fees for driver's licenses, marriage licenses, and gun licenses.[48] Romney increased the state gasoline tax by 2 cents per gallon, generating about $60 million per year in additional tax revenue.[49] Romney also closed tax loopholes that brought in another $181 million from businesses over the next two years.[49] The state legislature, with Romney's support, also cut spending by $1.6 billion, including $700 million in reductions in state aid to cities and towns.[50] The cuts also included a $140 million reduction in state funding for higher education, which led state-run colleges and universities to increase tuition by 63%.[49] Romney sought additional cuts in his last year as Massachusetts governor by vetoing nearly 250 items in the state budget. All of those vetoes were overturned by the legislature.[51]

The combined state and local tax burden in Massachusetts increased during Romney's governorship.[49] According to the Tax Foundation, that per capita burden was 9.8% in 2002 (below the national average of 10.3%), and 10.5% in 2006 (below the national average of 10.8%).[52]

On April 12, 2006, Romney signed the Massachusetts health reform law which requires nearly all Massachusetts residents to buy health insurance coverage or face the loss of their personal income tax exemption. The bill also establishes means-tested state subsidies for people who do not have adequate employer insurance and who make below an income threshold, by using funds previously designated to compensate for the health costs of the uninsured.[53][54][55] He vetoed eight sections of the health care legislation, including an employer assessment[56] and provisions providing health coverage to senior and disabled legal immigrants not eligible for federal Medicaid.[57][58] The legislature overrode all eight vetoes. Romney's communications director Eric Fehrnstrom responded saying "These differences with the Legislature are not essential to the goal of getting everyone covered with insurance."

At the beginning of his governorship, Romney opposed same-sex marriage and civil unions.[59][60] Faced with the dilemma of choosing between same-sex marriage or civil unions after the November 2003 Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court decision legalizing same-sex marriages (Goodridge v. Department of Public Health), Romney reluctantly backed a state constitutional amendment in February 2004 that would have banned same-sex marriage but still allow civil unions, viewing it as the only feasible way to ban same-sex marriage in Massachusetts.[61] In May 2004 Romney instructed town clerks to begin issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples, but citing a 1913 law that barred out-of-state residents from getting married in Massachusetts if their union would be illegal in their home state,[62][63] no marriage licenses were to be issued to out-of-state same-sex couples not planning to move to Massachusetts. In June 2005, Romney abandoned his support for the compromise amendment, stating that the amendment confused voters who oppose both same-sex marriage and civil unions. Instead, Romney endorsed a petition effort led by the Coalition for Marriage & Family that would have banned same-sex marriage and made no provisions for civil unions.[64] In 2006 he urged the U.S. Senate to vote in favor of the Marriage Protection Amendment.[65][66]

On December 14, 2005, Romney announced that he would not seek re-election for a second term as governor.[67] Romney left office with a favorability rating of 43%.[68] Romney filed papers to establish a formal exploratory presidential campaign committee the next to last day in office as governor.[69] This solidified suspicions that had been circulating as early as 2005 that Romney would attempt to run for President. This also intensified criticism that Romney was not taking his governorship seriously (spending 219 days out of state in 2006), and using his office as a springboard to greater political ambitions.[70] Romney's term ended January 4, 2007.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitt_Romney

Note - I do not think Mit R. will be chosen because of his wishy washy stance on abortion and, more importantly, he is not a Christian. The far right hates McCain enough without that fan on the flame.

BombaySapphire3

08-25-2008, 07:53 PM

Look, I'm no fan of Mitt Romney, but there are choices I shudder at more. Can you imagine Mike Huckabee or Fred Thompson one step from the Presidency?

Yes Huckabee would be terrible too ..what a nut.I'd actually take Thompson over Romney though.He is a rightwingnut to be sure but Romney just creeps me out..there is something so souless about him.