10 Artists who NEED to stop releasing albums

[estranged4life]

http://music.msn.com/music/photos/enough-already/?GT1=28102

Enough Already!

By Sean Nelson
Special to MSN Music

Even though the Who famously hoped "I die before I get old," plenty of veteran musicians have managed to stay relevant far past their predicted sell-by dates. Just look at Neil Young, Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, even Elvis Costello and Prince -- still making vital, interesting albums well beyond the age of 50. But what about the ones who don't age gracefully, or who don't know when to quit, who keep pumping out records year after decade? Some people just stay too long at their own party, and MSN Music is here to turn on the lights.

Madonna

In every imaginable way, the cultural force known as Madonna (as someone once joked, she could easily change her name to Phenomadonna) has transcended music, especially her own. Sure, she began as a pop star, but her legacy has been predominantly visual. The songs are Madonna delivery devices.

Have there been brilliant singles all along? Obviously -- right down to 2005's "Hung Up." However, the mere fact of her new album, "Hard Candy," makes it clear that Madonna's moment as a musical force has long since passed.

She defined the aesthetic of style as substance and gave birth to the teen-pop moment that keeps regenerating every few years. But despite whether she's a massive influence, she feels unnecessary. And pop can be a lot of things, but never that.

The Black Crowes

Remember the recent controversy in which Maxim magazine reviewed the new Black Crowes album before the writer had even heard it? Well, that is obviously inexcusable, but here's the thing no one seems willing to say: He was right.

You don't really need to hear a Crowes record to know what you're going to get, because you always get the same thing: roots rock with an overstated, Southern hippie twang. And it's coming up on 20 years since they had a good tune ("Remedy") to wrap their aesthetic around.

Absent a song, it's just dudes whipping their hair around a mic stand and soloing unto infinity, while a legion of hacky sacks bounce in time. You don't need to make a record to make that happen, dude.

The Who

Surely any list of the five most important rock bands of all time must contain the Who (they're No. 4 on my list; Nos. 2 and 3 are also on this list).

But let's be serious: Have they made a good album, or, OK, an important album since 1973's "Quadrophenia," which I don't even like that much but kind of have to grant you, otherwise we go back to 1969's "Tommy," because I don't like "Who's Next" (1971) that much? The answer is NO.

And it's not because they're old (though it is partially because their drummer died before he got that way). It's because people run out of gas, and Pete Townshend's gift for the short sharp vulnerability ran aground of Roger Daltrey's tendency to grunt and growl instead of sing.

"Endless Wire," the putative Who album from 2006 was one of the most painful listening experiences I can remember -- not one good song, not one good part. How was this the Who? Well, it wasn't. And now they're working on a new one. Here's hoping they never finish.

Ray Davies

A genuine heartbreaker on this list, Ray Davies, the songwriting master behind the Kinks, the second most important band in the history of rock music, has just released his second solo album, "Working Man's Café."

And although you'd have to think at least twice before suggesting that the man who wrote "Waterloo Sunset," "You've Really Got Me," "Lola" and about three dozen other perfect songs was anything other than a genius, you need only suffer through "Café" once to know that the pistons have stopped firing.

Davies' last solo effort, "Other People's Lives," was pretty slack, too. And while I'll fight to the death to support his right to do whatever he wants (if I were president, he'd be poet laureate), I humbly request that he stop making records -- at least till he remembers what he's good at: writing and singing songs about people he's actually interested in.

Joni Mitchell

This one hurts the most, because at her peak, Mitchell was basically the best there was, in the world, period. And then something happened. That something is called ego.

It was one thing for this former folkie singer/songwriter-turned-folk-rock innovator to compare herself to Dylan -- she had every right, especially in the mid-'70s. But when she started comparing herself to Beethoven, it was clear her editorial standards had gone out the window of her limousine.

She hasn't made a record you could even call decent since 1978 -- I would argue 1975, but still least 30 years. And "Shine," last year's "comeback" for Starbucks' Hear Music label, was effectively unlistenable. It may just be time for someone to get herself back to the garden. The great albums remain great, no matter how hard she tries to tarnish them.

Bryan Adams

Umm ... how to put this gently? Never good (not "Summer of '69," not "Heaven," not even "Cuts Like a Knife," which I heard just last week), and only getting worse with age. If indeed, everything you do, you do it for me, I have but one request: Pull the plug.

The Rolling Stones

It's such a cliché by now to make fun of the Stones' advanced age in relation to their live act that you almost forget how long it's been since they've made a good album.

The answer is 36 years. The album was 1972's "Exile on Main Street." If you want to be generous, you could make the case for "Some Girls" in 1978.

Either way, it's been at least three decades since "the world's greatest rock and roll band" could genuinely lay claim to that title. And yet, every time they mount a new tour, a new album comes along to diminish the worth of what should, in fairness, be called "the world's greatest rock and roll brand."

I know, I know, you can't always get what you want, but if a couple of grizzled old glimmer twins are reading this, I hope it's not too much to hope that, with the recent release of "Shine a Light," this could be the last time.

Elton John

As his coffers swell (to say nothing of, well, anything else), the man who managed at least three second acts as a legitimate chart presence hasn't recorded a viable note since 1989 (and that's if you're reeeeeally kind).

His dew-stained do-over of "Candle in the Wind" should have gotten him banished from polite society. Instead, it saved his bacon for the millionth time. How many "Lion King"s can he pull out of his straw boater before the whole toupee comes flying off with it? Time will tell.

But if he wants to make it to his 62nd birthday extravaganza with a shred of dignity, he'll call it a very long day instead of pretending that he can keep trying to pull off a return to roots as he does every so often ("The Captain and the Kid," "Peachtree Road"). The whole point of Elton John was that he had no roots in the first place.

Carly Simon

Never as shallow as Linda Ronstadt or as deep as Joni Mitchell (despite what a recent book suggests), Simon was a talented '70s pop radio artist and sex symbol whose best work is dusted with very affecting melancholy and a very sharp tongue. But she was never a major artist.

By the time the '80s rolled around, her work for movies had steered her into a synthesizer wasteland with lyrics full of vacuous sentimentality and humiliating nursery rhymes. And she's been coasting ever since.

Simon became the latest pop veteran to join the caffeinated ranks of Starbucks' Hear label in late April, but I'm sure I'm not alone when I say the anticipa-a-a-tion didn't exactly drive me crazy.

Def Leppard (see also, Whitesnake)

There was a time -- let's call it the early '80s -- when it seemed like this good-looking, young Zeppelin/Sabbath-lite semi-hard-rock band's hit strewn "Pyromania" LP was a perfect expression of the MTV-defined pop times.

Then a few years passed, tragedies beset the band and they managed to earn a big comeback, in the form of "Hysteria," featuring the unstoppably dumb mega hit "Pour Some Sugar on Me." That was 1987, 21 years ago.

In the meantime, it has become clear that the meaningless (though somehow still stupid) lyrics, good-time party attitude and retrograde iconography is better served up by bands that are young and dumb, not just dumb.

Not because it's more rock to be old, but because anyone who isn't 20 has no business making music so brainless -- just ask their new album. Pour some ointment on them; they're done.

[Richard B]

Hahaha.
I love it and so true.

[GODDESS6]

hilarious, thanx for posting!!!~

[ajmccarrell]

Can we throw anyone, besides Dave Matthews, who did Farm Aid in there as well? How did Neil Young even get famous?! He can't really play, he CANNOT sing, and I hate his songs because they're so darn cheesy!

Also, Nickelback. Every damn song sounds the same.

How about some acts we'd all like to see again? (even dead ones count)

1. The Association

2. Paul Revere and the Raiders

3. Marvin Gaye

4. The New Radicals

5. Seven Channels

6. Brenda Russell

7. The Mamas and the Papas

8. Boston

9. Dan Fogelberg

10. Heart

[GarboSpeaks!]

Madonna is the train wreck I love to watch. Love/hate w/ that damn girl, and the reality is, I still wonder what she'll do next. Has anything she's one lately been that wow? Is her music relevant? nope, not really, but I dig it. All the others, especially Elton....I stopped caring what he (they) did long ago...which is sad, cause so many of the artists listed have such talent....just it came & went already. Priceless frickin article though!

[BombaySapphire3]

Madonna

number one for a reason.

[Musicman408]

Yeah, I've never been a fan of Madonna's.

Also, Daughtry. All of his stuff sounds exactly the same.

[trackaghost]

Can we throw anyone, besides Dave Matthews, who did Farm Aid in there as well? How did Neil Young even get famous?! He can't really play, he CANNOT sing, and I hate his songs because they're so darn cheesy!


Well, let me know when you write a song even a 10th as good as the epic Cortez The Killer or the "cheesy" tale of heroin abuse and death, The Needle And The Damage Done. Thanks.

And yeah, the legend that is Dave Matthews is still producing awesome music while other Farm Aid performers such as Willie Nelson, Tom Petty, Emmylou Harris and Bob Dylan, haven't produced anything worthwhile in years. Okaaaaay.

[JohnL]

Yeah, I've never been a fan of Madonna's.

Also, Daughtry. All of his stuff sounds exactly the same.

I love Chris and the whole band. I think they have a very recognizable sound but I dont think they sound the same. Home vs. Its Not Over...very different to me at least.

[trackaghost]

Also, Daughtry. All of his stuff sounds exactly the same.

The list is more about artists who used to be great who haven't produced anything worthwhile in a long time.

[Chrislit18]

I almost died when I saw Bryan Adams on the list...
I think his stuff is just....horrible!!
I admit, I am a sucker for 'Summer of 69', but the rest...give me a break!

Ethan, I agree about Daughtry sounding gennerally the same on his work. But with that I must add that I like him, he was my favorite idol contestant season 5 [the year yucky taylor hicks won....:distress: ], and i think he deserves every bit of sucess he's had these last few years.

Truthfully, I cannot STAND Madonna, pardon me for saying this if you do like her, but the only reason she has a carrer was because she was a slut in the 80s, and she still is a slut to this day.

DMB? Crash is the only song I like by them. end of story.

Nickelcrap? I used to like them when I was like 10, but their stuff gets so tiring!!

aj...I can def. see where we'd want the Mama's and the Papa's back. I love thier music, but to me it wouldn't be the same without Mama Cass...[this may sound drastic, but it would be like the Beatles without John Lennon...it just wouldn't work.] If they pulled some stuff out of the vault though....that would be nice :D

I would loveeee to throw Rod Stewart into the 'don't make music' catagory.
I really hate Rod Stewart.
"Do You Think I'm Sexy" is the only song by him I even like. The rest sounds so similar. JMO.

[trackaghost]

aj...I can def. see where we'd want the Mama's and the Papa's back. I love thier music, but to me it wouldn't be the same without Mama Cass...[this may sound drastic, but it would be like the Beatles without John Lennon...it just wouldn't work.] If they pulled some stuff out of the vault though....that would be nice :D


Well, to be fair, it wouldn't be the same without John Phillips or Denny Doherty either. Michelle Phillips is actually the only surviving member of The Mamas And The Papas. :(

I do agree about Rod Stewart, although when he was in The Faces he was fantastic.

[Richard B]

How did Neil Young even get famous?! He can't really play, he CANNOT sing, and I hate his songs because they're so darn cheesy!

He first got famous as a member of Buffalo Springfield. He is a master songwriter and singer and I enjoy his work very much, both studio and live. He plays:
Guitar
Harmonica
Piano
Ukulele

When I saw him live for the first time at a Bridge School Benefit, I was completely blown away.

[KarmaContestant]

I don't care for most of the artists on this list, but I think it's a bunch of bull****. :rolleyes:

No artist NEEDS to stop doing their art. Just because some opinionated writer at MSN needs to meet his article quota does not lend any credence to his opinions.

And besides, the same thing could be said about every artist that someone, somewhere doesn't like.

[vermicious knid]

Madonna just had her fourth number one album in a row, but I'm sure she is going to end her career now just because this guy says she should.

[GoldDustOrphan]

Now that she's surpassed Elvis for the most Billboard top 1o hits - she's had 37 - I'm sure Madonna will accept her irrelevancy and the fact that she's a slut.

[vermicious knid]

Man, your friends are so hip and cool. Can you guys teach us children and queers to be like you?

[GoldDustOrphan]

Thanks for reminding us "queers" that only bigots decide what music is of value.

[BombaySapphire3]

does this mean I have to turn in my queer card for thinking that Madonna is an artistically talent challenged hoax?Well maybe not I do love Stevie Nicks and ABBA!:laugh:

[Ledge Moderators]

The NAMECALLING post was removed, for its insulting content.

[strandinthewind]

does this mean I have to turn in my queer card . . . .

Only 80% of it :wavey:

Seriously, Madonna's talent is not her voice. It never was.

Her talent is her ability to dance (still the heavy emphasis in her tours and videos) and her ability to be the mouthpiece for some of the more talented producers and innovative musicians of the last 25 years. She also has a talent for pushing the envelope of convention. I cannot really think of anyone like her or forget that in like 1983, there was nobody like her at all, save possibly for Cyndi Lauper in that they were both very quirky and made this great music. La Lauper, though, actually has a great voice. But, I love Madonna's stuff and think she is very talented in those areas.

I also think to call her a fluke or say that she was a slut therefore she made it ignores the facts. If you want to say she made it bacause she understood how to manipulate the public by shocking them, I will grant you that, though she also had slammin' music to back it up.

I also think she can act in a limited way. She was wonderful in Evita and Desp. Seeking Susan. Then again, like Winonna Ryder paying crazy, Madonna was merely playing herself in those two parts.

[ajmccarrell]

Well, let me know when you write a song even a 10th as good as the epic Cortez The Killer or the "cheesy" tale of heroin abuse and death, The Needle And The Damage Done. Thanks.

And yeah, the legend that is Dave Matthews is still producing awesome music while other Farm Aid performers such as Willie Nelson, Tom Petty, Emmylou Harris and Bob Dylan, haven't produced anything worthwhile in years. Okaaaaay.
Buy my album and you'll see I have written songs as good as those. :laugh: Okay, I did forget about Needles and the Damage done. It is a pretty good song, but not exactly in the top 500 of the decade even. It's a song that is very good for a folk singer in a coffee shop. In fact, I've heard better from guys at coffee shops. :)

[ajmccarrell]

He first got famous as a member of Buffalo Springfield. He is a master songwriter and singer and I enjoy his work very much, both studio and live. He plays:
Guitar
Harmonica
Piano
Ukulele

When I saw him live for the first time at a Bridge School Benefit, I was completely blown away.

I don't know if you can call what he does "playing". It is all at an extremely rudimentary level. His "singing" is better described as moaning and croaking. LOL! :laugh: One poster pointed out The Needle and the Damage done which is a good song, I will admit. Please tell me someone who doesn't cringe at "Keep on Rocking". LOL!

[strandinthewind]

. . . How did Neil Young even get famous?! He can't really play, he CANNOT sing, and I hate his songs because they're so darn cheesy . . . .

I don't know if you can call what he does "playing". It is all at an extremely rudimentary level . . . .

To each their own, but, objectively - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Young

I am not a huge fan of his, but I respect the talent :shrug:

[ajmccarrell]

Only 80% of it :wavey:

Seriously, Madonna's talent is not her voice. It never was.

Her talent is her ability to dance (still the heavy emphasis in her tours and videos) and her ability to be the mouthpiece for some of the more talented producers and innovative musicians of the last 25 years. She also has a talent for pushing the envelope of convention. I cannot really think of anyone like her or forget that in like 1983, there was nobody like her at all, save possibly for Cyndi Lauper in that they were both very quirky and made this great music. La Lauper, though, actually has a great voice. But, I love Madonna's stuff and think she is very talented in those areas.

I also think to call her a fluke or say that she was a slut therefore she made it ignores the facts. If you want to say she made it bacause she understood how to manipulate the public by shocking them, I will grant you that, though she also had slammin' music to back it up.

I also think she can act in a limited way. She was wonderful in Evita and Desp. Seeking Susan. Then again, like Winonna Ryder paying crazy, Madonna was merely playing herself in those two parts.

I'd say she's a master manipulator and has gotten where she is largely because of image and not any innate performance talent. She has an okay voice and I don't know if she plays anything or not. She is an excellent songwriter, far better than Neil Young. LOL! )Have to take another jab at the guy......) Like A Prayer, La Isle Bonita, Crazy for You, Music, Cherish, and many others are all wonderful songs. I just think there has to be a point where you put the slut image behind you and try to have some dignity. I think a 50 something year old women in an S & M outfit isn't sexy, it's just pathetic.

[strandinthewind]

. . . I think a 50 something year old women in an S & M outfit isn't sexy, it's just pathetic.

Apparently not to millions of people world wide. I mean you have your opinion and all, but I'd venture to say you are vastly out numbered.

Also, what exactly constitutes a slut? I say this in an historical way. She has inspired fashion since 1982 ish. So, if dressing like a slut is what she does, then seemingly women for the last 25 or so years are doing that as well. i get she did a nudie book, but that was 16 or so years ago. Also, I might agree with you in general if that 50 year old woman looked even 40. But, Madonna's body looks like she is in her 30's. Finally, dignity is how one judge's oneself, not how others judge another. For all we know, she has lots of dignity. Who am I to judge her about that?

Also, she is a highly trained and very good dancer, which is performace talent.

I think it is interesting that the two you attack are also heavily anti war - I think I see a correlation :wavey:

[Richard B]

Man, your friends are so hip and cool

How would you know?

Can you guys teach us children and queers to be like you?

You're standing in a long line.

[strandinthewind]

Ya know -- I always seem to miss the name calling and bickering by like 10 minutes :mad:

[Richard B]

His "singing" is better described as moaning and croaking.

I feel like we're talking about Bob Dylan or Stevie Nicks.

I don't know about moaning and croaking. Have you heard 'Old Man' or even better 'War of Man?' His voice is pure and golden. He doesn't really have a rasp.

Too each his own of course.

[Richard B]

Ya know -- I always seem to miss the name calling and bickering by like 10 minutes :mad:

What happened? I didn't call anyone names. Perhaps I missed it too as my post is deleted.
Sheesh.

[ajmccarrell]

Apparently not to millions of people world wide. I mean you have your opinion and all, but I'd venture to say you are vastly out numbered.

Also, what exactly constitutes a slut? I say this in an historical way. She has inspired fashion since 1982 ish. So, if dressing like a slut is what she does, then seemingly women for the last 25 or so years are doing that as well. i get she did a nudie book, but that was 16 or so years ago. Also, I might agree with you in general if that 50 year old woman looked even 40. But, Madonna's body looks like she is in her 30's. Finally, dignity is how one judge's oneself, not how others judge another. For all we know, she has lots of dignity. Who am I to judge her about that?

Also, she is a highly trained and very good dancer, which is performace talent.

I think it is interesting that the two you attack are also heavily anti war - I think I see a correlation :wavey:

Ya know, I never noticed the correlation about the war thing. I just hate his music and I think Madonna needs to grow up a bit. I mean, she looks good, but if you can afford to buy a body and face, anyone can look good. I think it is just a leftist thing to prolong adolescence as long as possible. I mean, how many conservative sluts are there? Anyway, I don't want to get too political here. I actually like Madonna's music, but I don't understand the ego or the hype. On a local radio station, she did a voiceover that says "I AM madonna" instead of "Hey there, it's Rob Thomas from Matchbox Twenty and you are listening to...." I don't get the reason for the ego. To me, entertainers are supposed to be a distraction from real life problems and when they weigh in on current events with a high school education and no real experience in the private sector beyond gigging, I lose most interest in them whether conservative or liberal. I would listen to a Michael Jordan, who is a businessman, over Madonna anyday. As far as the dignity goes, I have to say that dignity is based on societal norms and not what you think of yourself. That would mean that any degraded person, or insane person, is dignified even if they are lying in a gutter in their own filth. Not to say Madonna is doing that, but I disagree with your premise.

I don't mind being outnumbered by people worldwide. I mean, last year there was a survey on British culture and the majority of people thought that Sherlock Holmes was real and that Winston Churchill was a myth! I have never really cared what the majority thought about anything, since most of them know the names of the Idol contestants but couldn't name their own senator, or those who know the name of Paris Hilton's dog, but couldn't tell you who the secretary of the treasury is. Most polls prove to me that people just swallow good marketing and believe whatever they are handed. Music is all about packaging and has little to do with quality anymore.

[trackaghost]

Buy my album and you'll see I have written songs as good as those. :laugh: Okay, I did forget about Needles and the Damage done. It is a pretty good song, but not exactly in the top 500 of the decade even. It's a song that is very good for a folk singer in a coffee shop. In fact, I've heard better from guys at coffee shops. :)

Having seen your list of artists who are "good" and those who aren't, I think I'll be saving my money for the next Neil Young album, thanks :wavey:

Funnily enough three of Neil Young's songs made Rolling Stones' list of the 500 Greatest Songs Of All Time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/500_Greatest_Songs_of_All_Time

I'd be surprised to see Sinai 48 ever make this list lol :)

I don't know if you can call what he does "playing". It is all at an extremely rudimentary level. His "singing" is better described as moaning and croaking. LOL! :laugh: One poster pointed out The Needle and the Damage done which is a good song, I will admit. Please tell me someone who doesn't cringe at "Keep on Rocking". LOL!

lol you're funny. The fact that you think Neil Young is cheesy suggests that you know nothing about his music or the man at all other than a few songs you heard on the radio lol :)

[strandinthewind]

What happened? I didn't call anyone names. Perhaps I missed it too as my post is deleted.
Sheesh.

Well then, I think you're a twit :wavey::wavey::wavey:

(for the weak of heart, I am joking with Richard :cool: )

[Richard B]

Well then, I think you're a twit :wavey::wavey::wavey:

(for the weak of heart, I am joking with Richard :cool: )

I love it. You're my man, Strand, my main man.

[trackaghost]

I think it is just a leftist thing to prolong adolescence as long as possible. I mean, how many conservative sluts are there?

omg Now I realise it's pointless arguing. Wow.

[strandinthewind]

. . . I mean, how many conservative sluts are there . . . .

Ann Counter - I mean she wears a come fukc me dress showing off her misquito bump breasts and bony clavicle and Adam's Apple at eight in the morning.

Then again, can a man be a slut :eek:

Poor Ann :laugh:

Also, let's see:

1. Sen. Craig (after all, he plead guilty after throwing his position around did not work)

2. too many far right preachers to name

3. Strom Thurmond -- and with a black woman :eek:

4. Al State Attorney General Troy King -- though not proven yet, it will be

5. Neil Bush -- hey the hooker just showed up at my door - -what was I supposed to do?

6. Bob Barr - honey I know you are sick and likely dying, but please sign these divorce papers wherein I am screwing you over

7. Mark Foley - emails to the teenage boys in your employ anyone.

8. Ted Haggard -- Leader of the National Association of Evangelicals
(November 2006) and chronic beneffactor of male prostitutes and crystal meth -- BUT I WAS THERE FOR A MASSAGE ONLY

9. Bob Allen - Member of the Florida House of Representatives, Florida Chairman of John McCain’s Presidential Campaign (July 11, 2007) -- How about a hummer for $20 you big black burly man?

10. Glenn Murphy Jr. -- National Chairman of the Young Republicans (July 28, 2007) -- mouth-to-penis resuscitation of your asleep friend anyone - and repeated violations at that

11. Senator David Vitter -- I LOVE A HOOKER

12. Jeff Gannon -- gay rent boy in the White House anyone -- and just how did he pass that post 9/11 WH screening? Go here for "Bulldog's" lewd pics. and rates http://www.americablog.com/2005/02/man-called-jeff.html
_____________________________________________

I could go on, but I think that is enough for now.

Back to the topic at hand, I am happy Haircut 100 stopped recording.

[ajmccarrell]

Ann Counter - I mean she wears a come fukc me dress showing off her misquito bump breasts and bony clavicle and Adam's Apple at eight in the morning.

Then again, can a man be a slut :eek:

Poor Ann :laugh:

Also, let's see:

1. Sen. Craig (after all, he plead guilty after throwing his position around did not work)

2. too many far right preachers to name

3. Strom Thurmond -- and with a black woman :eek:

4. Al State Attorney General Troy King -- though not proven yet, it will be

5. Neil Bush -- hey the hooker just showed up at my door - -what was I supposed to do?

6. Bob Barr - honey I know you are sick and likely dying, but please sign these divorce papers wherein I am screwing you over

7. Mark Foley - emails to the teenage boys in your employ anyone.

8. Ted Haggard -- Leader of the National Association of Evangelicals
(November 2006) and chronic beneffactor of male prostitutes and crystal meth -- BUT I WAS THERE FOR A MASSAGE ONLY

9. Bob Allen - Member of the Florida House of Representatives, Florida Chairman of John McCain’s Presidential Campaign (July 11, 2007) -- How about a hummer for $20 you big black burly man?

10. Glenn Murphy Jr. -- National Chairman of the Young Republicans (July 28, 2007) -- mouth-to-penis resuscitation of your asleep friend anyone - and repeated violations at that

11. Senator David Vitter -- I LOVE A HOOKER
_____________________________________________

I could go on, but I think that is enough for now.

Back to the topic at hand, I am happy Haircut 100 stopped recording.


I was talking about entertainment. What is the point of this post anyway, why do you need to get nasty all the time, why do you need to drag politics into EVERYTHING, and who is Haircut 100?

[strandinthewind]

I was talking about entertainment. What is the point of this post anyway, why do you need to get nasty all the time, why do you need to drag politics into EVERYTHING . . . .

I was responding to your comment. For the record, I think Bulldog's stripping could be considered in the entertainment industry :laugh:

. . . . and who is Haircut 100?

Alas, this explains alot (joking) -- they were a one hit English wonder in the 80's with a kind of cool song called "Love Plus One."

[ajmccarrell]

Having seen your list of artists who are "good" and those who aren't, I think I'll be saving my money for the next Neil Young album, thanks :wavey:

Funnily enough three of Neil Young's songs made Rolling Stones' list of the 500 Greatest Songs Of All Time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/500_Greatest_Songs_of_All_Time

I'd be surprised to see Sinai 48 ever make this list lol :)

lol you're funny. The fact that you think Neil Young is cheesy suggests that you know nothing about his music or the man at all other than a few songs you heard on the radio lol :)

Well, we just hired an attorney who says there are 3 labels that we may end up getting signed with, so you never know?!

I'd be surprised if any of my songs made it there, but I think we'd all agree that Rhiannon and Go Your Own Way should be higher and a lot of those songs shouldn't be on there at all.

Besides, how "great" a song may be is irrelevant to musicianship. I mean, everyone knows Twinkle Twinkle and it is a "great" song because of its influence and impact, but it doesn't take much to play it. Neil Young may have "great" songs, but he's a poor musician. I mean, look at Kurt Cobain. He could barely play, he can't sing that well, he wrote some good songs, but he's consistently on the list of the greatest guitarists?! Why? Good marketing and the fact that he's dead. If he hadn't died, he'd be another STP or Live. He certaintly isn't a great guitarist. I mean, he makes the list and Elvis makes the list, but Lindsey doesn't? :shrug:

My parents listened to a lot of Neil Young albums while I grew up and I just didn't like them. So what?! His voice grates, his songs are okay but nothing spectacular, and his guitar playing annoys me. Can we talk this subject to death any more?!

[ajmccarrell]

I was responding to your comment. For the record, I think Bulldog's stripping could be considered in the entertainment industry :laugh:



Alas, this explains alot (joking) -- they were a one hit English wonder in the 80's with a kind of cool song called "Love Plus One."

I think bulldog stripping DESCRIBES the entertainment industry! :thumbsup:

[strandinthewind]

I think bulldog stripping DESCRIBES the entertainment industry! :thumbsup:

I tend to agree. However, there is still some fun, albeit not particularly great, music being released. I love "Since You've Been Gone" by Kelly Clarkson. I loved "Beautiful" by Aguilera. I like Madonna's new record -- and a few others. I realize these are not going to make people forget "tea for two" anytime soon. But, they are fun to listen to.

[ajmccarrell]

I tend to agree. However, there is still some fun, albeit not particularly great, music being released. I love "Since You've Been Gone" by Kelly Clarkson. I loved "Beautiful" by Aguilera. I like Madonna's new record -- and a few others. I realize these are not going to make people forget "tea for two" anytime soon. But, they are fun to listen to.

I compiled a list of the greatest songs from the 1990's (in my opinion anyway) and I came up with over 250. I tried the same thing for this decade and I had a hard time coming up with 50! There is still some good music being put out, but it doesn't tend to hit REALLY big. Kelly Clarkson is one major exception! I like a lot of the semi-smaller acts like Matisyahu, Brandi Carlile, etc. They'll never be Madonna level, but at least they're popular enough to get serious notice.

[trackaghost]

Besides, how "great" a song may be is irrelevant to musicianship. I mean, everyone knows Twinkle Twinkle and it is a "great" song because of its influence and impact, but it doesn't take much to play it. Neil Young may have "great" songs, but he's a poor musician. I mean, look at Kurt Cobain. He could barely play, he can't sing that well, he wrote some good songs, but he's consistently on the list of the greatest guitarists?! Why? Good marketing and the fact that he's dead. If he hadn't died, he'd be another STP or Live. He certaintly isn't a great guitarist. I mean, he makes the list and Elvis makes the list, but Lindsey doesn't? :shrug:


Lol, now you've completely lost me. I can't even relate to someone who dismisses Madonna, Neil Young, Kurt Cobain and Elvis.

And the fact you keep harping on about musicianship completely confirms to me that you know nothing about Neil Young, because he has very distinct views on that and things sounding too perfect. Thank god others share this view too, I don't even want to think about a world without punk, hardcore or garage rock

For the record, if you've ever seen Neil Young live playing acoustically, he's actually a superb acoustic guitar player. But I guess if you don't like anything too loud or challenging there's not much I can do to convince you :shrug: I saw Nirvana back in the day too and they were amazing live, as someone who is turned off by what has happened since his death, I think sometimes it's easy to forget their impact, influence and importance.

[ajmccarrell]

Lol, now you've completely lost me. I can't even relate to someone who dismisses Madonna, Neil Young, Kurt Cobain and Elvis.

And the fact you keep harping on about musicianship completely confirms to me that you know nothing about Neil Young, because he has very distinct views on that and things sounding too perfect. Thank god others share this view too, I don't even want to think about a world without punk, hardcore or garage rock

For the record, if you've ever seen Neil Young live playing acoustically, he's actually a superb acoustic guitar player. But I guess if you don't like anything too loud or challenging there's not much I can do to convince you :shrug: I saw Nirvana back in the day too and they were amazing live, as someone who is turned off by what has happened since his death, I think sometimes it's easy to forget their impact, influence and importance.

Okay, I didn't dismiss Madonna. I like her music, I don't like her image. I wasn't dismissing Elvis either, but pointing out that he's not one of the top ten best guitarists in the world and Kurt Cobain wasn't either.

My question for you would be, do you play the guitar? My mentor is Mason Williams, the guy who did "Classical Gas", so I'm a little more picky about what a superb guitar player would be than your average person would be. When I look at a guitar player, I am looking at technique, such as hand positioning, execution and clarity of notes, the absense of buzzing noises, tone and a variety of other things. I'm a classical player, so I don't have a lot of respect for people that most people would consider great. I mean people adore Cobain, but forget guys like Eric Johnson. One more example, that may piss you off too, is Big Love. For a BAD classical player, it is easy and most classical guitarists could do it sleeping. For most people, it is unattainable to think they could play it. It just depends on your perspective. There's an old joke, "Q: How do you get a guitar player to stop playing? A: Put sheet music in front of him." 99% of guitarists can't read music, but it doesn't diminish their accomplishments. Lindsey can't read music, which makes him poor technically, but it doesn't diminish his accomplishments. In fact, it magnifies them. Most guitarists are not like LB, however, and that does make them poor musicians.

I think the thing about things sounding "too perfect" is the same excuse many musicians use about being "too commcercial". It just means they don't know how to write hooks. I don't think it is that I don't understand Neil Young, I just think you are not a musician, so my opinion seems foreign. Like, "how can someone think that". I'm looking at it from a critical standpoint and not one of a fan. When I hear a song, I pick the different parts out in my head and analyze them. I can't just "listen".

I like a lot of punk, hardcore and garage rock too. I don't think you understood me.

I love challenging music. I just think most people would be surprised that Van Halen's Spanish Fly is not the hardest guitar song to play, Bach's Prelude # 6 is. For someone like me that has an exceptional musical education for most of his life, it seems totally foreign that something Neil Young does isn't all that hard for me.

[Richard B]

I think someone pooped their pants!

[trackaghost]

I think the thing about things sounding "too perfect" is the same excuse many musicians use about being "too commcercial". It just means they don't know how to write hooks.

I like a lot of punk, hardcore and garage rock too. I don't think you understood me.

I'm afraid these two sentences don't go together in my book.

[estranged4life]

I just think this article was a hilarious read is WHY I posted it, apparently SOME took it too serious...

PERSONALLY I wished the govt.'s of the world SHOULD BAN COMPILATION albums...Who cares about War/Oil/Terrorism/Global Warming/William Shatner, COMPILATION ALBUMS are the TRUEST EVIL of all!!!! Quick, Get Sting, Bono and Geldof signed up for Comp Aid to save those poor re-releases of songs we've HEARD a Quint-tillion times..."That is just 'BA-DONG' "

How many more Kiss, Heart & Elvis albums does the world need? How does Elvis find the time to record albums of old tracks when he is TOO BOOKED playing Vegas, Branson, your local lounge and/or Elvis convention?

[ajmccarrell]

I'm afraid these two sentences don't go together in my book.
Okay, well we're in two totally different worlds. By it's very nature Punk, Hardcore, or whatever do not exclude them from being done commercially or perfectly. You'd be surprised at how many people spend years in the studio trying to sound spontaneous, or "not perfect". Or those people who spend hours on that "just rolled out of bed" look. Recording music is no different.

[trackaghost]

Okay, well we're in two totally different worlds. By it's very nature Punk, Hardcore, or whatever do not exclude them from being done commercially or perfectly.

You couldn't be more wrong :laugh: It's about capturing a moment, not technical perfection. That's what punk is!

Btw, I do play guitar, and I don't think how technically brilliant a song is makes it great, as absurb as that may seem to you. Some of the greatest songs ever are three simple chords. There's also small things like passion and soul put into a performance.

[strandinthewind]

. . . Some of the greatest songs ever are three simple chords . . . .

I submit that is what most of the beginings of Rock and Roll was.

[ajmccarrell]

You couldn't be more wrong :laugh: It's about capturing a moment, not technical perfection. That's what punk is!

Btw, I do play guitar, and I don't think how technically brilliant a song is makes it great, as absurb as that may seem to you. Some of the greatest songs ever are three simple chords. There's also small things like passion and soul put into a performance.

Have you ever been in a studio trying to record a punk track? It's mostly about long hours trying to get the right take more than inspiration.

I don't think a song could be great being only three chords by definition, which is the heart of where we disagree.

Of course Passion and Soul make a great performance, but there is a such thing as skill.

Listening to any old great punk musicians from the Sex Pistols on, does not seem to be about "capturing a moment" as much as recording a well crafted and well performed song. I mean, ANY recording is about capturing a moment, but mostly about recording what you were there to record in the first place.

[trackaghost]

I just think this article was a hilarious read is WHY I posted it, apparently SOME took it too serious...



Don't be such a Debbie Downer, this is a GREAT argument!

[ajmccarrell]

I submit that is what most of the beginings of Rock and Roll was.
Three chords by themselves would be very boring. Guys like Chuck Berry made it interesting by being good musicians. Where would Elvis be without Bill Black or Scotty Moore?

[ajmccarrell]

Don't be such a Debbie Downer, this is a GREAT argument!
According to you, the argument would need three chords to be great! :laugh:

[estranged4life]

Don't be such a Debbie Downer, this is a GREAT argument!

(As always) being sarcastic with that statement!!!

I think Lindsey, Stevie, Mick & Chris need to STOP MAKING ALBUMS...(They release an album as often as one can have a child, raise it and send it off to college :lol: )

Cause John RULES and they wouldnt have ANY success with him!!!

John McVie - The REAL genius behind Fleetwood Mac...Fire the rest of 'em!

:thumbsup:

[BombaySapphire3]

I think it is interesting that the two you attack are also heavily anti war - I think I see a correlation :wavey:
Well at least you know I'm not attacking her due to a pr0-war bias:lol:And I have to profoundly disagree with you in regard to her acting ability she is among the most untalented American film actresses of all time ..In fact I'm hard pressed to think of a worse one ..even Pia Zadora had an undeniable campiness something which Madonna lacks ..she is so terrible she can't even muster a so bad she's good camp watchability.

[trackaghost]

Have you ever been in a studio trying to record a punk track? It's mostly about long hours trying to get the right take more than inspiration.


If you've ever been in a studio trying to record a punk track I'll eat my hat. :laugh:

You're wrong of course, as there are many punk musicians who believe in capturing things quickly. Funnily enough Neil Young (who isn't punk, but very much in the spirit of it) is one! He won't even let his band rehearse the songs too much before they go in to record them. Paul Westerberg of The Replacements fame is another, his last few albums don't even bother to fix imperfections on the tape.

[strandinthewind]

Three chords by themselves would be very boring. Guys like Chuck Berry made it interesting by being good musicians. Where would Elvis be without Bill Black or Scotty Moore?

What aboubt Big Mamma Thornton?

I also submit Elvis made pretty much everything interesting just by showing up on the stage. This is mostly true for The Beatles in the early years, though they could write songs.

[strandinthewind]

Well at least you know I'm not attacking her due to a pr0-war bias:lol:And I have to profoundly disagree with you in regard to her acting ability she is among the most untalented American film actresses of all time ..In fact I'm hard pressed to think of a worse one ..even Pia Zadora had an undeniable campiness something which Madonna lacks ..she is so terrible she can't even muster a so bad she's good camp watchability.

You did not like her in Evita? I readily admit she could not sing the score even written down as it was, though she was not bad with the help of IMO pro tools. But, her acting was decent in it and she got mostly decent reviews. I get that she was awful in just about everything else, save for Desp. Seeking Susan. But, I give her kudos when I see them. Again, the rest of her shiitee (that awful South Beach baby movie and Swept Away -- :eek: )

As for her music -- you have never once jammed to her shiitte? Come on :laugh:

[estranged4life]

All I can add, without being SARCATIC is...

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they smell!

[trackaghost]

According to you, the argument would need three chords to be great! :laugh:

Surprisingly enough I don't just like three chord punk songs
But I do believe a three chord pop song can be just as great as a symphony.
In the end it's all about how it sounds and how it makes you feel.

What aboubt Big Mamma Thornton?

I also submit Elvis made pretty much everything interesting just by showing up on the stage. This is mostly true for The Beatles in the early years, though they could write songs.

I agree completely about Elvis! No doubt he had great musicians, but the man could have easily turned up with just his voice and his guitar and mesmerised.

[Richard B]

Well at least you know I'm not attacking her due to a pr0-war bias:lol:And I have to profoundly disagree with you in regard to her acting ability she is among the most untalented American film actresses of all time ..In fact I'm hard pressed to think of a worse one ..even Pia Zadora had an undeniable campiness something which Madonna lacks ..she is so terrible she can't even muster a so bad she's good camp watchability.

Pia Zadora!!!! LOL...I have not heard her name in a long time. Didn't she record an album too?

Anyway, I agree with you, Madonna is a terrible actress.

[ajmccarrell]

If you've ever been in a studio trying to record a punk track I'll eat my hat. :laugh:

You're wrong of course, as there are many punk musicians who believe in capturing things quickly. Funnily enough Neil Young (who isn't punk, but very much in the spirit of it) is one! He won't even let his band rehearse the songs too much before they go in to record them. Paul Westerberg of The Replacements fame is another, his last few albums don't even bother to fix imperfections on the tape.

I am literally trying to record one at this moment. I have a recording rig in my house. Do you want Ketchup?

[Hawkeye]

Wow, I can't believe I didn't catch this until now, but I have to chime in and agree that ajmccarrell has NO idea what they are talking about. Neil Young is probably my absolute favorite guitar player. Seeing him live last year was the greatest experience ever. To question his skills and musicianship is just insane. It's one thing if you can't persoanally appreciate him thats one thing, but don't say he can't play guitar.

And to address the original point of this thread, the MSN guy is right about Neil Young and making good new music. His output of great albums since 1990 is every bit as good as his output from 1970-1980 which is nearly unheard of for classic rock artists especially the ones we are all hear because of.

And yeah, Madonna sucks, whoever sited her streak of #1 albums as proof that the MSN writer is wrong, that meanss nothing, Charts don't indicate ****.

[trackaghost]

I am literally trying to record one at this moment. I have a recording rig in my house. Do you want Ketchup?

Yeah right. Considering you're so into "technique" and "perfection" and think Kurt Cobain is a lousy guitar player, if you really are trying to record a punk song I bet it's as punk rock as Doris Day.

But then your idea of punk rock is The Sex Pistols :rolleyes:

[Villavic]

you don't like Madonna and the others? just don't listen them. That's it.

[ajmccarrell]

Yeah right. Considering you're so into "technique" and "perfection" and think Kurt Cobain is a lousy guitar player, if you really are trying to record a punk song I bet it's as punk rock as Doris Day.

But then your idea of punk rock is The Sex Pistols :rolleyes:

I take it you haven't looked up my band or taken a listen. I never said "perfection" I just said that a guitarists technique matters to me and decides if he is actually a good player. If a guy has rotten technique without any other redeeming value, he sucks!

Well, not quite Doris Day, but it sounds more like Stone Temple Pilots. Either way, it's decidedly not punk.

Seriously asking, maybe you'd like to help me? If you pm me your email, I'll send some samples of what I'm doing and maybe you can guide me to great punkitude? I'd really like to know.

And yes, Kurt Cobain is a horrible guitar player.

[ajmccarrell]

you don't like Madonna and the others? just don't listen them. That's it.

I do like Madonna, just not Neil Young. At least, not what I've heard. I don't listen to him and no one likes my reason why I don't like him. If anyone has any great Neil Young guitar tracks, I'd be open to hearing them. Any suggestions?

[ajmccarrell]

I looked up Neil Young guitar solos on youtube and got this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XBJeX0UyZ0

If this is real, I have to now conclude that he absolutely sucks worse than I thought.

Is this actually real? Does he really just play one note straight for 15 minutes live?

[BTFLCHLD]

that video is some funny chit :lol:

[BombaySapphire3]

You did not like her in Evita? I readily admit she could not sing the score even written down as it was, though she was not bad with the help of IMO pro tools. But, her acting was decent in it and she got mostly decent reviews. I get that she was awful in just about everything else, save for Desp. Seeking Susan. But, I give her kudos when I see them. Again, the rest of her shiitee (that awful South Beach baby movie and Swept Away -- :eek: )

As for her music -- you have never once jammed to her shiitte? Come on :laugh:

I thought she looked like a mannequin in Evita .. oddly flat and lifeless although the film itself was not terrible like so many of hers were. The only reason she EVER got a part in a major film or any film for that matter is her fame for doing whatever else she does and as for her music some of her collaborators may have helped her come up with some decent tunes but I have never once purchased a Madonna record nor could I bear to listen to one in it's entirety.

[strandinthewind]

I thought she looked like a mannequin in Evita .. oddly flat and lifeless although the film itself was not terrible like so many of hers were. The only reason she EVER got a part in a major film or any film for that matter is her fame for doing whatever else she does and as for her music some of her collaborators may have helped her come up with some decent tunes but I have never once purchased a Madonna record nor could I bear to listen to one in it's entirety.

So, once again, you have never danced around with wild abandon to some silly Madonna tune and managed to have a good time? Come on -- her stuff is fun :shrug:

[skcin]

I don't like Neil Young's music that much either, but I would never call his songs "cheesy." :rolleyes: Britney/Miley/Fergie songs are "cheesy."

I just got the best of the Johnny Cash show on DVD, and there was a clip of Neil playing "The Needle and the Damage Done." It was pretty apparent that he played guitar well in 1969, so...

As far as Nirvana goes, they were hugely popular & predicted to be THE band (along with Pearl Jam) that would be remembered as having changed the music scene long before Kurt died. Yes, his death brought more fame but it's certainly not the reason for their success.

[ajmccarrell]

I don't like Neil Young's music that much either, but I would never call his songs "cheesy." :rolleyes: Britney/Miley/Fergie songs are "cheesy."

I just got the best of the Johnny Cash show on DVD, and there was a clip of Neil playing "The Needle and the Damage Done." It was pretty apparent that he played guitar well in 1969, so...

As far as Nirvana goes, they were hugely popular & predicted to be THE band (along with Pearl Jam) that would be remembered as having changed the music scene long before Kurt died. Yes, his death brought more fame but it's certainly not the reason for their success.

Okay, I was referring to "Rockin' in the Free World" and the Farm Aid stuff as cheesy, not the man's ENTIRE body of work. "The Needle and the Damage Done" is what I would call average guitar playing, from my point of view. It is a powerful song and I wish people would write more like that now. From someone else's, it might be incredible guitar playing.

The thing about Pearl Jam and Nirvana is fine, except look at where Pearl Jam is now. They're already another Live or some other forgotten band and they aren't on "best guitarist" lists anywhere. They are exactly where Nirvana would be now, except that Kurt Cobain died, so now he's the "greatest". :laugh: Nirvana basically defined a two year period between 1991 and 1992, music drifted a long way from that towards the end of the decade. After grunge, we got post-grunge, like Matchbox Twenty, Fastball and the Goo Goo Dolls, and also it was the beginning of this decade's R & B with TLC and Destiny's Child. We also had a lot of anti-commercial stuff like the New Radicals, Offspring, Blink-182, Stroke-9, Harvey Danger, Lit, and a lot of power pop like Natalie Imruglia, Vonda Shepard, Faith Hill, Celine Dion, etc. Jam bands also became popular like Dave Matthews, the Spin Doctors, and Blues Traveler. It was also the decade of the angry white female, with Alanis Morissette, Fiona Apple, Tori Amos and heck even the Spice Girls. We also saw the boy band era with NKTB, the BSB, N'Sync, Youngstown and even the Meaty Cheesy Boys. LOL! Not to mention, it was also the era of the comeback with the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac and anyone remember "Smooth" with Santana and Rob Thomas? We also had the angry poets like Smashing Pumpkins. There were also just plain great rock bands like Stone Temple Pilots, RHCP, Alice in Chains and many others. You can't really say that Nirvana defined the 90's because the sheer diversity of 90's music rivals only the 1960's. The majority of the 90's sound owes more to REM than it does Nirvana. Whereas in the 80's and today, your choices are pretty homogenous with what gets major label sponsorship.

Also, everyone kept saying how great Neil Young's playing was and I asked for a few songs that REALLY show his guitar skills and no one could give me one?! :confused:

[BombaySapphire3]

So, once again, you have never danced around with wild abandon to some silly Madonna tune and managed to have a good time? Come on -- her stuff is fun :shrug:

Nah back in the years when I actually went to clubs I was way more interested in drinking than dancing and don't do much of either anymore ..At the start of Madonna's career I hopefully believed she would be a flash in the pan given the "talent" involved and I didn't really loathe her at first until I heard Material Girl one of the most obnoxious songs ever ..that did it for me.

[strandinthewind]

. . . Also, everyone kept saying how great Neil Young's playing was and I asked for a few songs that REALLY show his guitar skills and no one could give me one?! :confused:

I never really said that -- but, the wiki article I posted the link to goes on about his talent :shrug:

[ajmccarrell]

I never really said that -- but, the wiki article I posted the link to goes on about his talent :shrug:

He is a very talented songwriter. There were some songs that he did that I wasn't aware were him, like "Sugar Mountain". The wiki article said that his electric guitar playing was "idiosynchratic", which I thought was putting it nicely. Did you see the video I posted yesterday with the 15 minutes of one note solos? I wasn't sure if that was a 'shred' gag or not.

[skcin]

Okay, I was referring to "Rockin' in the Free World" and the Farm Aid stuff as cheesy, not the man's ENTIRE body of work. "The Needle and the Damage Done" is what I would call average guitar playing, from my point of view. It is a powerful song and I wish people would write more like that now. From someone else's, it might be incredible guitar playing.

The thing about Pearl Jam and Nirvana is fine, except look at where Pearl Jam is now. They're already another Live or some other forgotten band and they aren't on "best guitarist" lists anywhere. They are exactly where Nirvana would be now, except that Kurt Cobain died, so now he's the "greatest". :laugh: Nirvana basically defined a two year period between 1991 and 1992, music drifted a long way from that towards the end of the decade. After grunge, we got post-grunge, like Matchbox Twenty, Fastball and the Goo Goo Dolls, and also it was the beginning of this decade's R & B with TLC and Destiny's Child. We also had a lot of anti-commercial stuff like the New Radicals, Offspring, Blink-182, Stroke-9, Harvey Danger, Lit, and a lot of power pop like Natalie Imruglia, Vonda Shepard, Faith Hill, Celine Dion, etc. Jam bands also became popular like Dave Matthews, the Spin Doctors, and Blues Traveler. It was also the decade of the angry white female, with Alanis Morissette, Fiona Apple, Tori Amos and heck even the Spice Girls. We also saw the boy band era with NKTB, the BSB, N'Sync, Youngstown and even the Meaty Cheesy Boys. LOL! Not to mention, it was also the era of the comeback with the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac and anyone remember "Smooth" with Santana and Rob Thomas? We also had the angry poets like Smashing Pumpkins. There were also just plain great rock bands like Stone Temple Pilots, RHCP, Alice in Chains and many others. You can't really say that Nirvana defined the 90's because the sheer diversity of 90's music rivals only the 1960's. The majority of the 90's sound owes more to REM than it does Nirvana. Whereas in the 80's and today, your choices are pretty homogenous with what gets major label sponsorship.

Also, everyone kept saying how great Neil Young's playing was and I asked for a few songs that REALLY show his guitar skills and no one could give me one?! :confused:


Thanks for the clarification. Quite a difference in saying "his songs are cheesy" vs. 'that one song is so cheesy." Also, I never said he was an "incredible" guitarist, just noting that the old performance I saw was far from bad.


And no, YOU look at where Pearl Jam is now. They sell out venues all over the world without radio airplay, without major records deals or concert promotion. They record their live shows to offer to their fans. THEY walked away from the mainstream music biz, they weren't "forgotten." I'm not into them anymore, but I'm well aware of how successful they are to this day, which is even more impressive considering the above.

Not that these types of lists mean much to me, but for what it's worth:
In a review of Pearl Jam's 2006 eponymous album, Rolling Stone editor David Fricke admitted that he "screwed up" in excluding both McCready and Pearl Jam rhythm guitarist Stone Gossard from the publication's 2003 feature "The 100 Greatest Guitarists of All Time".[17] In 2007, McCready's guitar solos from "Alive" and "Yellow Ledbetter" were featured on Guitar World's "100 Greatest Guitar Solos" list.[18] In February 2007, McCready and Gossard were included together by Rolling Stone in its list of "The Top 20 New Guitar Gods" under the title of "four-armed monster."[19] He (McCready) was placed at #6 on a list of "The Twenty-Five Most Underrated Guitarists" by Rolling Stone.[20]


Notice those dates were in the last few years, NOT the early 90's.

I noticed you only named popular acts at the time. Your list read like a "The Very Best of the 90's!" CD compilation. :laugh:

[trackaghost]

and I hate his songs because they're so darn cheesy!


Okay, I was referring to "Rockin' in the Free World" and the Farm Aid stuff as cheesy, not the man's ENTIRE body of work.

Thanks for the clarification. Quite a difference in saying "his songs are cheesy" vs. 'that one song is so cheesy."


:laugh: Come on, no backtracking, you did say songs.

The thing about Pearl Jam and Nirvana is fine, except look at where Pearl Jam is now. They're already another Live or some other forgotten band and they aren't on "best guitarist" lists anywhere. They are exactly where Nirvana would be now, except that Kurt Cobain died, so now he's the "greatest". :laugh:

omg :laugh: Yeah. Their last album (out in 2006) debuted at number two in the US Billboard charts. They've been constantly touring selling out big arena shows since the early 90s. Their Tom Petty/Pearl Jam double bill was one of the hottest tickets in the summer of 2006 in fact. Last year Eddie Vedder did the soundtrack to Into The Wild, receiving a Golden Globe nomination. They were on VH1 just last week performing alongside the likes of the Foo Fighters and The Flaming Lips in tribute to The Who. You're right no one remembers Pearl Jam anymore. Glad to see you keep up with current music!


Nirvana basically defined a two year period between 1991 and 1992, music drifted a long way from that towards the end of the decade. After grunge, we got post-grunge, like Matchbox Twenty, Fastball and the Goo Goo Dolls, and also it was the beginning of this decade's R & B with TLC and Destiny's Child. We also had a lot of anti-commercial stuff like the New Radicals, Offspring, Blink-182, Stroke-9, Harvey Danger, Lit, and a lot of power pop like Natalie Imruglia, Vonda Shepard, Faith Hill, Celine Dion, etc. Jam bands also became popular like Dave Matthews, the Spin Doctors, and Blues Traveler. It was also the decade of the angry white female, with Alanis Morissette, Fiona Apple, Tori Amos and heck even the Spice Girls. We also saw the boy band era with NKTB, the BSB, N'Sync, Youngstown and even the Meaty Cheesy Boys. LOL! Not to mention, it was also the era of the comeback with the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac and anyone remember "Smooth" with Santana and Rob Thomas? We also had the angry poets like Smashing Pumpkins. There were also just plain great rock bands like Stone Temple Pilots, RHCP, Alice in Chains and many others. You can't really say that Nirvana defined the 90's because the sheer diversity of 90's music rivals only the 1960's. The majority of the 90's sound owes more to REM than it does Nirvana. Whereas in the 80's and today, your choices are pretty homogenous with what gets major label sponsorship.

I do admit I properly laughed out loud when I read your round-up of 90s music, it comes straight off a radio playlist like Paula said! I looked at her post and it said nowhere on it "please give me your roundup of 90s music and keep it to radio bands please as they are the only ones of any importance" Come on you could at the very least mentioned Radiohead, Beck, Missy Elliott or at least one hip hop act!

And The New Radicals were anti-commercial even though they had one of the biggest radio hits of the late 90s? :laugh: I still hear that song on the radio to this day! Gregg Alexander the main guy in that band actually went on to be a pop songwriter working with ex-Spice Girls, Ronan Keating from Boyzone and Michelle Branch among others.
And Natalie Imbruglia and Vonda Shepherd were power pop? First I've heard of it! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_pop

Anyway to you Nirvana don't define anything, but to a lot of people they do define that decade. I remember the grunge scene so clearly and even though Nirvana were far from my favourite band of that period, they do represent the spirit, the ethos of that time. Their impact is huge, it basically made alternative mainstream and led the way for so many bands that made up the rest of the decade. And of course their demise brought us the Foo Fighters, who are one of the biggest rock bands out there today.


Also, everyone kept saying how great Neil Young's playing was and I asked for a few songs that REALLY show his guitar skills and no one could give me one?! :confused:

What's the point? You clearly have you mind made up and would only ridicule anything suggested. The fact you looked on YouTube and found a parody clip put together by a fan (you could easily do one of those for Lindsey or many other guitarists) shows that you are more willing to believe a compilation put together for comedic effect that anything else.



I noticed you only named popular acts at the time. Your list read like a "The Very Best of the 90's!" CD compilation. :laugh:

I love you Paula :laugh:

[gretchen]

William Shatner should hang up his jock when it comes to releasing albums; but damn, I just gotta have more Spock and Shat!
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q104/gretch_014/funny1/B0000089JE_01_LZZZZZZZ.jpg
:laugh:

[strandinthewind]

William Shatner should hang up his jock when it comes to releasing albums; but damn, I just gotta have more Spock and Shat!
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q104/gretch_014/funny1/B0000089JE_01_LZZZZZZZ.jpg
:laugh:

Well, they really are the Buckingham Nicks love affair of that generation :shrug:

[ajmccarrell]

:laugh: Come on, no backtracking, you did say songs.



omg :laugh: Yeah. Their last album (out in 2006) debuted at number two in the US Billboard charts. They've been constantly touring selling out big arena shows since the early 90s. Their Tom Petty/Pearl Jam double bill was one of the hottest tickets in the summer of 2006 in fact. Last year Eddie Vedder did the soundtrack to Into The Wild, receiving a Golden Globe nomination. They were on VH1 just last week performing alongside the likes of the Foo Fighters and The Flaming Lips in tribute to The Who. You're right no one remembers Pearl Jam anymore. Glad to see you keep up with current music!



I do admit I properly laughed out loud when I read your round-up of 90s music, it comes straight off a radio playlist like Paula said! I looked at her post and it said nowhere on it "please give me your roundup of 90s music and keep it to radio bands please as they are the only ones of any importance" Come on you could at the very least mentioned Radiohead, Beck, Missy Elliott or at least one hip hop act!

And The New Radicals were anti-commercial even though they had one of the biggest radio hits of the late 90s? :laugh: I still hear that song on the radio to this day! Gregg Alexander the main guy in that band actually went on to be a pop songwriter working with ex-Spice Girls, Ronan Keating from Boyzone and Michelle Branch among others.
And Natalie Imbruglia and Vonda Shepherd were power pop? First I've heard of it! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_pop

Anyway to you Nirvana don't define anything, but to a lot of people they do define that decade. I remember the grunge scene so clearly and even though Nirvana were far from my favourite band of that period, they do represent the spirit, the ethos of that time. Their impact is huge, it basically made alternative mainstream and led the way for so many bands that made up the rest of the decade. And of course their demise brought us the Foo Fighters, who are one of the biggest rock bands out there today.



What's the point? You clearly have you mind made up and would only ridicule anything suggested. The fact you looked on YouTube and found a parody clip put together by a fan (you could easily do one of those for Lindsey or many other guitarists) shows that you are more willing to believe a compilation put together for comedic effect that anything else.



I love you Paula :laugh:

Why the hostility?!

It could be that I'm a bit younger than you. I'm 26, so, when Nirvana was in their heyday, I was 11. So, they didn't define that decade for me. When I think about driving around with my friends in the car, we sang along to the songs I mentioned and not Beck or Radiohead. Beck is a little hard to sing along to. I didn't listen to hip-hop ever, so I can't really name anyone. I never liked anything I heard, although I did find Snow amusing.

As far as Pearl Jam goes, I was referring to airplay more than anything. I mean, Say You Will hit pretty high on the album charts, but both singles basically stalled. The last Pearl Jam song I can recall on the radio was "I Am Mine", which I REALLY liked. I wasn't aware of their new albums. They were never one of my favorites. I have Ten and that's about it for me.

I'm glad you found my list amusing, that's what I listened to during that decade. I'm not a Gen-X'er, so the 90's mean something different to me. I never listened to Phish or Radiohead or anything else like it. For the majority of the 90's, I listened to classical music only. It wasn't until 1998 that I even started listening to music with words! :laugh:

Who are The Flaming Lips?

I was actually serious about asking for great guitar work by Neil Young. I posted that video because it was funny, so why get offended?

You're right, I don't keep up with the radio anymore. I hate the way it sounds. Too much compression and loudness effects ruin the purity of the sound and makes it hard to listen to. I end up with a headache. It sounds fake as opposed to CD. I mainly listen to talk radio or alternative music radio stations that play b-sides now. No doubt, someone is going to argue with me that the radio sounds great and CD''s have crappy sound. (sigh)

[Richard B]

What's the point? You clearly have you mind made up and would only ridicule anything suggested. The fact you looked on YouTube and found a parody clip put together by a fan (you could easily do one of those for Lindsey or many other guitarists) shows that you are more willing to believe a compilation put together for comedic effect that anything else.


Exactly why I didn't bother either.

[trackaghost]

I'm actually not being hostile, I genuinely found your round-up of 90s music funny because it was like one of those "Remember the 90s!" Time Life things :laugh:

I think you're missing out on rap and hip hop.

And I wasn't offended by the Neil Young clip, I actually found it funny, but it perfectly demonstrated your prejudice against him. My suggestion would be to go see him live, because the atmosphere and energy of a concert is a far more convincing thing than any youtube clip.

And The Flaming Lips are a very popular, Grammy Award winning alternative band. They recorded, what many believe, is one of the best albums this decade Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots, although I think their previous effort, The Soft Bulletin is superior (and Entertainment Weekly agree with me - they named it the 23rd greatest album of the last 25 years). I don't think you'll like it too much though because Wayne Coyne isn't the greatest singer!

[ajmccarrell]

I'm actually not being hostile, I genuinely found your round-up of 90s music funny because it was like one of those "Remember the 90s!" Time Life things :laugh:

I think you're missing out on rap and hip hop.

And I wasn't offended by the Neil Young clip, I actually found it funny, but it perfectly demonstrated your prejudice against him. My suggestion would be to go see him live, because the atmospheric and energy of a concert is a far more convincing thing that any youtube clip.

And The Flaming Lips are a very popular, Grammy Award winning alternative band. They recorded, what many believe, is one of the best albums this decade Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots, although I think their previous effort, The Soft Bulletin is superior. I don't think you'll like it too much though because Wayne Coyne isn't the greatest singer!

I liked MC Hammer and Heavy D. Does that count as Hip Hop! :)

I'll have to look up the Flaming Lips and give them a listen. I PROMISE, when Neil Young next comes to Seattle, I will go see him and give you a full report. The one disclaimer being ticket prices.

I have to apologize a bit, since I'm not up on most things. I don't have an iPod or even a cell phone. I've never even USED an iPod. I still use Direct X plugins and haven't even upgraded to VST! I still have a record player.... :) I was raised in a cult, so my exposure to the outside world is a little limited at times.

[trackaghost]

Okay, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to laugh, it's just you said it all so matter of factly, and I guess Paula and myself remember those years and the songs that were popular pretty clearly.
The Flaming Lips are worth a listen, their music is pretty interesting and quite ambitious for pop songs at the very least.

[DavidMn]

Man, your friends are so hip and cool. Can you guys teach us children and queers to be like you?You're not gonna last long around here making comments like that.:mad:

[estranged4life]

Who are The Flaming Lips?

out of Oklahoma City, Not the 'typical' environment for an 'alternative' band (Probably the real reason Seattle WHINES about OKC, Not because OKC STOLED the Supersonics, but because the "alternative pop" greats are from OKC - And possibly Jerry Cantrell of Alice in Chains has Oklahoma blood since his Father STILL resides here).

I'm not a fan of 'alternative' music myself (Nor am I fan of hip-hop/rap - Sorry, tried giving it a listen and it did nothing for me. I do like electronic/tech/trance/dance however), but I give my support to a local band who made it to the BIG stage.

I prefer Classic rock, 80's Hard Rock/Metal and modern death/black metal (Which makes up about 95% of my massive collection)...Different strokes for different folks.

[ajmccarrell]

out of Oklahoma City, Not the 'typical' environment for an 'alternative' band (Probably the real reason Seattle WHINES about OKC, Not because OKC STOLED the Supersonics, but because the "alternative pop" greats are from OKC - And possibly Jerry Cantrell of Alice in Chains has Oklahoma blood since his Father STILL resides here).

I'm not a fan of 'alternative' music myself (Nor am I fan of hip-hop/rap - Sorry, tried giving it a listen and it did nothing for me. I do like electronic/tech/trance/dance however), but I give my support to a local band who made it to the BIG stage.

I prefer Classic rock, 80's Hard Rock/Metal and modern death/black metal (Which makes up about 95% of my massive collection)...Different strokes for different folks.

You can have the Sonics! All they do around here is whine about Key Arena and clog traffic when they have a game. :)

[estranged4life]

You can have the Sonics! All they do around here is whine about Key Arena and clog traffic when they have a game. :)

I HATE basketball and I feel they should STAY in Seattle.

Until Oklahoma can removes its head from the O-Who Gooners and the Dallas Cowboys asses this STATE will never be a MAJOR LEAGUE state!!!

[DeadliestPoison]

It was also the decade of the angry white female, with SNIP heck even the Spice Girls.
Hold the bus. Care to explain how the Spice Girls qualify as "angry white female?" I own everything they've released, and there isn't a shred of anger anywhere in there.

Also, if you're trying to record a punk song, you're doing it wrong.

[ajmccarrell]

Hold the bus. Care to explain how the Spice Girls qualify as "angry white female?" I own everything they've released, and there isn't a shred of anger anywhere in there.

Also, if you're trying to record a punk song, you're doing it wrong.

Are you sure that's something you really want to admit to? LOL! :shrug:

[DeadliestPoison]

Are you sure that's something you really want to admit to? LOL! :shrug:
I have no shame! :laugh: I'm pretty sure everyone knows I'm all about the Spice Girls.

[ajmccarrell]

I have no shame! :laugh: I'm pretty sure everyone knows I'm all about the Spice Girls.


I must admit that I love Savage Garden and have every record John Denver ever did. I guess we all have our musical skeletons! :thumbsup:

[estranged4life]

Even though I am a MAJOR fan of the band Queen, without Freddie Mercury I think Mr.May & Mr.Taylor should use a different name for the project with Mr.Paul Rodgers...

[ajmccarrell]

Even though I am a MAJOR fan of the band Queen, without Freddie Mercury I think Mr.May & Mr.Taylor should use a different name for the project with Mr.Paul Rodgers...

They could go back to being Smiles? I mean, it'd be like Matchbox Twenty with no Rob Thomas!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

The fact that they mentioned both Joni and Carly.. tells me that they have no F*CKING CLUE what they are talking about!


Both SHINE and THIS KIND OF LOVE are in heavy rotation on my Ipod!

Just because an artist reaches a specific age doesn't mean that he/she has to give up their craft.. their art.. what brings them pleasure!

Just another douche with another opinion if you ask me..

[DavidMn]

The fact that they mentioned both Joni and Carly.. tells me that they have no F*CKING CLUE what they are talking about!


Both SHINE and THIS KIND OF LOVE are in heavy rotation on my Ipod!

Just because an artist reaches a specific age doesn't mean that he/she has to give up their craft.. their art.. what brings them pleasure!

Just another douche with another opinion if you ask me..I basically consider these types of people(critics) internet trolls who happen to get paid!:laugh:

[skcin]

Why the hostility?!

It could be that I'm a bit younger than you. I'm 26, so, when Nirvana was in their heyday, I was 11. So, they didn't define that decade for me. When I think about driving around with my friends in the car, we sang along to the songs I mentioned and not Beck or Radiohead. Beck is a little hard to sing along to. I didn't listen to hip-hop ever, so I can't really name anyone. I never liked anything I heard, although I did find Snow amusing.

As far as Pearl Jam goes, I was referring to airplay more than anything. I mean, Say You Will hit pretty high on the album charts, but both singles basically stalled. The last Pearl Jam song I can recall on the radio was "I Am Mine", which I REALLY liked. I wasn't aware of their new albums. They were never one of my favorites. I have Ten and that's about it for me.

I'm glad you found my list amusing, that's what I listened to during that decade. I'm not a Gen-X'er, so the 90's mean something different to me. I never listened to Phish or Radiohead or anything else like it. For the majority of the 90's, I listened to classical music only. It wasn't until 1998 that I even started listening to music with words! :laugh:

Who are The Flaming Lips?

I was actually serious about asking for great guitar work by Neil Young. I posted that video because it was funny, so why get offended?

You're right, I don't keep up with the radio anymore. I hate the way it sounds. Too much compression and loudness effects ruin the purity of the sound and makes it hard to listen to. I end up with a headache. It sounds fake as opposed to CD. I mainly listen to talk radio or alternative music radio stations that play b-sides now. No doubt, someone is going to argue with me that the radio sounds great and CD''s have crappy sound. (sigh)

I can't speak for Sharon, but I wasn't trying to be hostile. At the start of this thread you seemed to want to try & give the impression that you were very knowledgeable about music. The more you posted, it became apparent that you aren't. Now, I'm not either, but I don't pretend to be. If you're going to discuss something, at least know what you're talking about. And if you judge an artist's entire body of work on 1 or 2 songs, we're going to call you on it. :shrug: No big deal, just a good discussion.

[ajmccarrell]

I can't speak for Sharon, but I wasn't trying to be hostile. At the start of this thread you seemed to want to try & give the impression that you were very knowledgeable about music. The more you posted, it became apparent that you aren't. Now, I'm not either, but I don't pretend to be. If you're going to discuss something, at least know what you're talking about. And if you judge an artist's entire body of work on 1 or 2 songs, we're going to call you on it. :shrug: No big deal, just a good discussion.

I have to laugh at this. Well, considering that I am a musician, I probably know a great deal more than you do. Not to lord it over anybody, but I have a different perspective than you do. Give my music a listen and you may decide I know a great deal more than you thought. Look up Sinai 48 on Amazon or iTunes and listen to the songs. I wrote them. Listen to my take on Classical Gas and then afterwards tell me I don't know as much about music as you do. I mean, Charlie Chalmers, the guy who arranged all of Aretha Franklin's hits and has six Grammy Hall of Fame and an album of the century award contributions certainly thinks I know something about music, as he said that he couldn't have done a better job on the arrangments of my songs as I had done. Ask Gary Hodges, the guy who actually played with such greats as Lindsey, BB King, Merle Haggard, SRV and many others. He thinks I'm a fantastic musician. My actual musical mentor Mason Williams also thinks I know something, otherwise he wouldn't send me songs of his to finish, or ask me to review things he's working on. The selection committees of the classical guitar competitions I used to compete in also think I know something about music. I've had 8 years of classical music education in all. I'm sorry to be cocky, but I don't care who you are, if I were competing against you (meaning just about any guitarist) in a competition, I would probably beat you. How many songs have you written and how many Grammies have you won? Yet, you think that your vast knowledge is superior to other very experienced musicians? Good Lord.

[skcin]

^ Wow, dude. :shocked: Just wow. Show me where I said I knew more than you do about music, or that I am a guitar player. No, really. Please. I'll wait...

[ajmccarrell]

^ Wow, dude. :shocked: Just wow. Show me where I said I knew more than you do about music, or that I am a guitar player. No, really. Please. I'll wait...

What you said was that I wasn't very knowledgable about music, which would imply that if you were making that judgement, that your knowledge was of the level to deem mine inferior. Here's you quote, "At the start of this thread you seemed to want to try & give the impression that you were very knowledgeable about music. The more you posted, it became apparent that you aren't." Now, don't you think something like that gives the impression that you know more? Hello, basic Greek logic here. :wavey:

Anyway, if you still hold that opinion, download "You Don't Know". I wrote, arranged, produced and mixed that. It's a blend of grunge, industrial, gospel and flamenco. Not an easy task to pull off. Listen to my solo at the end of "Only One" and see if I don't have some sort of perspective on guitar solos enough to be able to hold a position that I don't like Neil Young's? Take a listen to "Leave Me Alone", which is a blend of Tin Pan Alley and country, which would showcase technical composition skill. I've had music teachers listen and say it shows how much I've studied music.

Anyway, saying stuff like that to someone who devoted much of his life to music, you're bound to ruffle some feathers.

[gretchen]

Maureen McGovern, STOP RELEASING ALBUMS, PLEASE!!! :lol::lol:

[skcin]

I just had to go back & point out several of your posts. You really seem to need to go back & reiterate or clarify many of your statements, then you end up contradicting yourself.

Can we throw anyone, besides Dave Matthews, who did Farm Aid in there as well? How did Neil Young even get famous?! He can't really play, he CANNOT sing, and I hate his songs because they're so darn cheesy!


So NOBODY who did Farm Aid should release anymore albums. :laugh:Quite the blanket statement to make - which is why you sound like you don't know wtf you're talking about.

I don't know if you can call what he does "playing". It is all at an extremely rudimentary level. His "singing" is better described as moaning and croaking. LOL! One poster pointed out The Needle and the Damage done which is a good song, I will admit. Please tell me someone who doesn't cringe at "Keep on Rocking". LOL!

You don't need to be a technically great guitarist to have talent, and you don't need to be a classically trained or "normal" sounding singer to be able to sing a song & convey emotion.

I'd say she's a master manipulator and has gotten where she is largely because of image and not any innate performance talent. She has an okay voice and I don't know if she plays anything or not. She is an excellent songwriter, far better than Neil Young. LOL! )Have to take another jab at the guy......) Like A Prayer, La Isle Bonita, Crazy for You, Music, Cherish, and many others are all wonderful songs. I just think there has to be a point where you put the slut image behind you and try to have some dignity. I think a 50 something year old women in an S & M outfit isn't sexy, it's just pathetic.

You're comparing apples to oranges - how can you compare a folk/rock singer/songwriter who writes most of his songs about politics & current events to someone who writes pop songs that mean nothing? Sure, Madonna has written lots of fun POP songs - fluff, pure & simple. But being cute & catchy doesn't make it a "great" song.

Ya know, I never noticed the correlation about the war thing. I just hate his music and I think Madonna needs to grow up a bit. I mean, she looks good, but if you can afford to buy a body and face, anyone can look good. I think it is just a leftist thing to prolong adolescence as long as possible. I mean, how many conservative sluts are there? Anyway, I don't want to get too political here. I actually like Madonna's music, but I don't understand the ego or the hype. On a local radio station, she did a voiceover that says "I AM madonna" instead of "Hey there, it's Rob Thomas from Matchbox Twenty and you are listening to...." I don't get the reason for the ego. To me, entertainers are supposed to be a distraction from real life problems and when they weigh in on current events with a high school education and no real experience in the private sector beyond gigging, I lose most interest in them whether conservative or liberal. I would listen to a Michael Jordan, who is a businessman, over Madonna anyday. As far as the dignity goes, I have to say that dignity is based on societal norms and not what you think of yourself. That would mean that any degraded person, or insane person, is dignified even if they are lying in a gutter in their own filth. Not to say Madonna is doing that, but I disagree with your premise.

I don't mind being outnumbered by people worldwide. I mean, last year there was a survey on British culture and the majority of people thought that Sherlock Holmes was real and that Winston Churchill was a myth! I have never really cared what the majority thought about anything, since most of them know the names of the Idol contestants but couldn't name their own senator, or those who know the name of Paris Hilton's dog, but couldn't tell you who the secretary of the treasury is. Most polls prove to me that people just swallow good marketing and believe whatever they are handed. Music is all about packaging and has little to do with quality anymore.

So which is it? From your list below, seems like you go with whatever the majority is listening to at the time. First you implied Nirvana "started" something & those other bands progressed, then you said that was simply a list of popular bands you used to listen to.

Well, we just hired an attorney who says there are 3 labels that we may end up getting signed with, so you never know?!

I'd be surprised if any of my songs made it there, but I think we'd all agree that Rhiannon and Go Your Own Way should be higher and a lot of those songs shouldn't be on there at all.

Besides, how "great" a song may be is irrelevant to musicianship. I mean, everyone knows Twinkle Twinkle and it is a "great" song because of its influence and impact, but it doesn't take much to play it. Neil Young may have "great" songs, but he's a poor musician. I mean, look at Kurt Cobain. He could barely play, he can't sing that well, he wrote some good songs, but he's consistently on the list of the greatest guitarists?! Why? Good marketing and the fact that he's dead. If he hadn't died, he'd be another STP or Live. He certaintly isn't a great guitarist. I mean, he makes the list and Elvis makes the list, but Lindsey doesn't?

My parents listened to a lot of Neil Young albums while I grew up and I just didn't like them. So what?! His voice grates, his songs are okay but nothing spectacular, and his guitar playing annoys me. Can we talk this subject to death any more?!

Exactly, it doesn't. So stop arguing that it does. :laugh:

And nobody cares that you don't like Neil Young, they care that you made the comment: He can't really play, he CANNOT sing, and I hate his songs because they're so darn cheesy

I compiled a list of the greatest songs from the 1990's (in my opinion anyway) and I came up with over 250. I tried the same thing for this decade and I had a hard time coming up with 50! There is still some good music being put out, but it doesn't tend to hit REALLY big. Kelly Clarkson is one major exception! I like a lot of the semi-smaller acts like Matisyahu, Brandi Carlile, etc. They'll never be Madonna level, but at least they're popular enough to get serious notice.

So you made a list of your favorite songs from your adolescence. :shrug: Like you said, it's your opinion, you LIKED the songs - doesn't mean they're great. I like a lot of songs that are crap too, I'm not going to tell people they must be great because I like them & I'm a fantastic musician. :rolleyes: Which I'm not.

Okay, I didn't dismiss Madonna. I like her music, I don't like her image. I wasn't dismissing Elvis either, but pointing out that he's not one of the top ten best guitarists in the world and Kurt Cobain wasn't either.

My question for you would be, do you play the guitar? My mentor is Mason Williams, the guy who did "Classical Gas", so I'm a little more picky about what a superb guitar player would be than your average person would be. When I look at a guitar player, I am looking at technique, such as hand positioning, execution and clarity of notes, the absense of buzzing noises, tone and a variety of other things. I'm a classical player, so I don't have a lot of respect for people that most people would consider great. I mean people adore Cobain, but forget guys like Eric Johnson. One more example, that may piss you off too, is Big Love. For a BAD classical player, it is easy and most classical guitarists could do it sleeping. For most people, it is unattainable to think they could play it. It just depends on your perspective. There's an old joke, "Q: How do you get a guitar player to stop playing? A: Put sheet music in front of him." 99% of guitarists can't read music, but it doesn't diminish their accomplishments. Lindsey can't read music, which makes him poor technically, but it doesn't diminish his accomplishments. In fact, it magnifies them. Most guitarists are not like LB, however, and that does make them poor musicians.

I think the thing about things sounding "too perfect" is the same excuse many musicians use about being "too commcercial". It just means they don't know how to write hooks. I don't think it is that I don't understand Neil Young, I just think you are not a musician, so my opinion seems foreign. Like, "how can someone think that". I'm looking at it from a critical standpoint and not one of a fan. When I hear a song, I pick the different parts out in my head and analyze them. I can't just "listen".
I like a lot of punk, hardcore and garage rock too. I don't think you understood me.

I love challenging music. I just think most people would be surprised that Van Halen's Spanish Fly is not the hardest guitar song to play, Bach's Prelude # 6 is. For someone like me that has an exceptional musical education for most of his life, it seems totally foreign that something Neil Young does isn't all that hard for me.

Maybe you should go & talk about your technical knowledge in a thread discussing technical abilities of guitar players. :shrug: Doesn't really belong in a thread about "who shouldn't release albums anymore." It's a simple fun discussion that you're taking too seriously, then when people question you because your knowledge of pop music seems pretty superficial, you get defensive & arrogant & insist nobody should dare to question you because you're a musician & they aren't. You being able to play an instrument doesn't mean that you know a lot about music dude. :sorry:

I liked MC Hammer and Heavy D. Does that count as Hip Hop!

I'll have to look up the Flaming Lips and give them a listen. I PROMISE, when Neil Young next comes to Seattle, I will go see him and give you a full report. The one disclaimer being ticket prices.

I have to apologize a bit, since I'm not up on most things. I don't have an iPod or even a cell phone. I've never even USED an iPod. I still use Direct X plugins and haven't even upgraded to VST! I still have a record player.... :) I was raised in a cult, so my exposure to the outside world is a little limited at times.

No, it's not

AND

You've never even HEARD of the Flaming Lips?

AND

That explains a lot. I'll remember that for the next time so I don't waste my time.

What you said was that I wasn't very knowledgable about music, which would imply that if you were making that judgement, that your knowledge was of the level to deem mine inferior. Here's you quote, "At the start of this thread you seemed to want to try & give the impression that you were very knowledgeable about music. The more you posted, it became apparent that you aren't." Now, don't you think something like that gives the impression that you know more? Hello, basic Greek logic here. :wavey:

Not when the next line in the post says "Now I'm not either, but I don't pretend to be." Hello, basic English reading skills? :wavey:

Anyway, if you still hold that opinion, download "You Don't Know". I wrote, arranged, produced and mixed that. It's a blend of grunge, industrial, gospel and flamenco. Not an easy task to pull off. Listen to my solo at the end of "Only One" and see if I don't have some sort of perspective on guitar solos enough to be able to hold a position that I don't like Neil Young's? Take a listen to "Leave Me Alone", which is a blend of Tin Pan Alley and country, which would showcase technical composition skill. I've had music teachers listen and say it shows how much I've studied music.

Anyway, saying stuff like that to someone who devoted much of his life to music, you're bound to ruffle some feathers.

Well telling people that you must know more about music than them because you play an instrument is bound to ruffle some feathers as well, because it might not be the case.

And I'd rather take a cue from you & just prejudge your music as cheesy without bothering to investigate further. Thanks anyway. :wavey:

[ajmccarrell]

I just had to go back & point out several of your posts. You really seem to need to go back & reiterate or clarify many of your statements, then you end up contradicting yourself.



So NOBODY who did Farm Aid should release anymore albums. :laugh:Quite the blanket statement to make - which is why you sound like you don't know wtf you're talking about.



You don't need to be a technically great guitarist to have talent, and you don't need to be a classically trained or "normal" sounding singer to be able to sing a song & convey emotion.



You're comparing apples to oranges - how can you compare a folk/rock singer/songwriter who writes most of his songs about politics & current events to someone who writes pop songs that mean nothing? Sure, Madonna has written lots of fun POP songs - fluff, pure & simple. But being cute & catchy doesn't make it a "great" song.



So which is it? From your list below, seems like you go with whatever the majority is listening to at the time. First you implied Nirvana "started" something & those other bands progressed, then you said that was simply a list of popular bands you used to listen to.



Exactly, it doesn't. So stop arguing that it does. :laugh:

And nobody cares that you don't like Neil Young, they care that you made the comment:



So you made a list of your favorite songs from your adolescence. :shrug: Like you said, it's your opinion, you LIKED the songs - doesn't mean they're great. I like a lot of songs that are crap too, I'm not going to tell people they must be great because I like them & I'm a fantastic musician. :rolleyes: Which I'm not.



Maybe you should go & talk about your technical knowledge in a thread discussing technical abilities of guitar players. :shrug: Doesn't really belong in a thread about "who shouldn't release albums anymore." It's a simple fun discussion that you're taking too seriously, then when people question you because your knowledge of pop music seems pretty superficial, you get defensive & arrogant & insist nobody should dare to question you because you're a musician & they aren't. You being able to play an instrument doesn't mean that you know a lot about music dude. :sorry:



No, it's not

AND

You've never even HEARD of the Flaming Lips?

AND

That explains a lot. I'll remember that for the next time so I don't waste my time.



Not when the next line in the post says "Now I'm not either, but I don't pretend to be." Hello, basic English reading skills? :wavey:



Well telling people that you must know more about music than them because you play an instrument is bound to ruffle some feathers as well, because it might not be the case.

And I'd rather take a cue from you & just prejudge your music as cheesy without bothering to investigate further. Thanks anyway. :wavey:

I'm glad you like to parade being ignorant. :) Saves me the trouble of pointing it out. Most of what you have a problem with is a matter of opinion. Go be pissy and insult people somewhere else.

[gretchen]

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q104/gretch_014/picShatner.jpg

[skcin]

I'm glad you like to parade being ignorant. :) Saves me the trouble of pointing it out. Most of what you have a problem with is a matter of opinion. Go be pissy and insult people somewhere else.

Funny that nobody else is disagreeing with me or my posts in this particular thread. :laugh: Does happen to you a lot? Everyone else must be wrong, since you must be right?

Anyway, I'm off to piss on someone else's parade. :wavey: Toodles.

[ajmccarrell]

Funny that nobody else is disagreeing with me or my posts in this particular thread. :laugh: Does happen to you a lot? Everyone else must be wrong, since you must be right?

Anyway, I'm off to piss on someone else's parade. :wavey: Toodles.

I think that everyone else stopped paying attention long ago and we're two people who can't shut up. :laugh: Besides, who cares what other people think?

[ajmccarrell]

My new signature!

[BTFLCHLD]

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk252/JonnyBoySlim/hoff.gif

[Richard B]

I guess we all have our musical skeletons! :thumbsup:

Very true.
I remember heading to work in San Francisco one morning and was standing next to this punk rock, tattooed, mohawk, pierced, gruff, scary looking guy wearing headphones and blasting Olivia Newton-John's old country song, Let Me Be There.

I loved it.

I have a thing for ONJ and ABBA, but keep it on the down low.

[estranged4life]

They could go back to being Smiles? I mean, it'd be like Matchbox Twenty with no Rob Thomas!

to playing under the moniker of Smile, seems to have no logic to me.

Would be more logical to just name it May, Taylor and Rodgers.



As for Matchbox Twenty, never listened to them so I cannot make a comment...

[jannieC]

Very true.
I remember heading to work in San Francisco one morning and was standing next to this punk rock, tattooed, mohawk, pierced, gruff, scary looking guy wearing headphones and blasting Olivia Newton-John's old country song, Let Me Be There.

I loved it.

I have a thing for ONJ and ABBA, but keep it on the down low.
I have more down low music secrets than is normal, I think. It's the kind of music you crank until you get to a stop light, then quickly turn the volume down- LOL. The Titanic theme comes to mind. :o

[GODDESS6]

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk252/JonnyBoySlim/hoff.gif

omg, i am now blind!!!:laugh::nod::laugh:~