Huge Fleetwood Mac Update

[estranged4life]

Saw this posted on another message board (Swiped this over on MetalSludge's message board - A heavy metal related website - So take it for what it is), thought it was rather out of the blue:

* The "new album" is in fact a new compilation album that will feature several new tracks. Interestingly enough, one of the conditions for Stevie recording new Fleetwood Mac music was that Lindsey not be named primary producer. An outside collaborator, rumored to be John Shanks or Chris Lord-Alge, is being brought in to "even things up".

* The "new tour" is indeed a "farewell tour" and could last up to two years with a blowout finale being planned. The ideas and expectations for this tour are big amongst organizers with one idea being that the finale will take place at either Wembley Stadium (or Twickingham Stadium) in London, or New York City's iconic Central Park.

* The tour will kick off in the U.S. next Spring with a European tour of arenas and some stadiums to follow. The group are already being mentioned for next year's Heiniken Jammin' Festival in Italy.

* While Sheryl Crow will be participating in the recording the new Mac tunes, she will not be made a member of the band, contrary to what she announced to the public earlier this year. The first set of U.S. shows will, however, be a Fleetwood Mac/Sheryl Crow double-bill. Crow is reportedly set on opening for the group for the duration of the tour, including all overseas legs.

* A lot of money is being put into this and the band are reportedly shopping their name around to both LiveNation and AEG Live for the farewell tour, and any one-offs that will follow.

Read the rest, including where the tour will end, the not so surprise opening act and more at http://artemisinside.blogspot.com

[fleetwoodguy79]

Very, VERY interesting...

Couple of points of interest for me:

1.) The article claims that FM is heading back into the studio to record new material in October. Lindsey has already announced a full fledged solo tour that month. Without any time off, looks like he would be jumping from tour straight into FM studio sessions if this is indeed true.

2.) A Sheryl Crow/FM double bill is not what I really would have hoped for. Not that I'm against her music, I just don't care for it. And I know a lot of FM fans wouldn't appreciate her as an opening act since she would more than likely not be an "opener". If she plays a 1-1/2 hour set that leaves little time for the 2+ hour FM set we would all wish to see! But who knows...

3.) Does Steve really hate Lindsey's production abilities or what???

[estranged4life]

Very, VERY interesting...

Couple of points of interest for me:

1.) The article claims that FM is heading back into the studio to record new material in October. Lindsey has already announced a full fledged solo tour that month. Without any time off, looks like he would be jumping from tour straight into FM studio sessions if this is indeed true.

That is what I was thinking, maybe he made some concessions to get GOS released and one of those may be new recordings.

2.) A Sheryl Crow/FM double bill is not what I really would have hoped for. Not that I'm against her music, I just don't care for it. And I know a lot of FM fans wouldn't appreciate her as an opening act since she would more than likely not be an "opener". If she plays a 1-1/2 hour set that leaves little time for the 2+ hour FM set we would all wish to see! But who knows...

I'm not, nor will I ever be a fan of Sheryl Crow. But this double bill makes sense in a reality of musical styles.

3.) Does Steve really hate Lindsey's production abilities or what???

If that article is true (Who knows :shrug: ) then maybe she does indeed hate his style.

[vermicious knid]

But if the tour lasts up to two years, that means Stevie will have to politely assuage the impatient demands of the producers who will soon be clamoring to develop her Rhiannon project!!!!

[CADreaming]

Very, VERY interesting...



3.) Does Steve really hate Lindsey's production abilities or what???

No. It didn't say he wouldn't be producing at all...just not the sole producer.

[SandyMac]

Thank you for posting that. I need to start saving up some serious cash.
A compilation album??? (sigh), I was hoping for more, but I guess what can you expect on such a short turn around time on this? No wonder Stevie is dipping into the vault to find some lost gems. Maybe we all will be surprised at the result.

What ever happened to all of that supposed footage that Lindsey has shot over the years? Maybe that will be part of a compilation farewell package. If they do this right, they could go out on a serious high (pun intended) ;)

Hmmm, Stevie insisting that Lindsey not be the primary producer... interesting, but understandable given their history.
I would prefer John Shanks to produce.

Double bill or opening with Sheryl Crow, ehh, but I guess it is way better than Sheryl on stage with FM as part of FM
(shuddering). I guess if she wants to be with the band so bad, this is the best way to do it and not ruin the FM legacy.

(Now this should be interesting).

[gldstwmn]

No. It didn't say he wouldn't be producing at all...just not the sole producer.

Meaning he can do whatever he wants but he'll never be free to ruin the likes of Silver Girl or Smile At You again. :laugh:

[bucklind17]

Wow, that's quite a bit of news! Exciting!

I'm just thinking about what a final concert in Central Park would be like. On a warm summer night. On the Great Lawn. Probably cost insane amounts of money, but that could be really magical. I hope it happens!

Also, while I'm curious what a compilation can consist of at this point that hasn't already been done ten times, I'm kind of pleased they aren't putting themselves through a whole album process. Partially because the wear and tear can't be fun at this point, partially because I want Stevie to still like the band enough to actually BE on this tour and ok, also if there aren't that many new songs, that means Lindsey probably won't have to give over anything he wouldn't want to. Though the proximity of that to his solo album pretty much eliminates the possibility of that for the first time ever, doesn't it?

[vivfox]

This is very exciting news!!! Funny though how Stevie nicely explained to Sheryl how FM is so encompassing that you can't take a baby on the road with you if you are in FM.
I guess if you're the opening act, no problem man. I agree that FM doesn't need an opening act. I'd love to see them come onstage at 7:30 and rock the arena till 10:30. If Bruce Springsteen can do a three hour show then why can't Linds and Steve pull it off too? They certainly have enough material.

[CADreaming]

Meaning he can do whatever he wants but he'll never be free to ruin the likes of Silver Girl or Smile At You again. :laugh:

Oh, Lord...it wasn't LB that ruined Silver Girl!! :laugh: That one could have stayed in the vault...

[CADreaming]

This is very exciting news!!! Funny though how Stevie nicely explained to Sheryl how FM is so encompassing that you can't take a baby on the road with you if you are in FM.
I guess if you're the opening act, no problem man. I agree that FM doesn't need an opening act. I'd love to see them come onstage at 7:30 and rock the arena till 10:30. If Bruce Springsteen can do a three hour show then why can't Linds and Steve pull it off too? They certainly have enough material.

LOL! I wish for Stevie's "Farewell Interview" we could all call her on the carpet... I mean, I would seriously LOVE to hear her admit she's lying. Can you imagine her answering it with "I lied." Just once that would be so grand.

Anyway, I don't know if her voice would withstand the strain of a 3 hour show...it would be awesome if they could do that and just stretch out the dates so she could rest her vocal chords.

[David]

1.) The article claims that FM is heading back into the studio to record new material in October. Lindsey has already announced a full fledged solo tour that month.If he's not producing or arranging Stevie's material (which seems like a possibility), then the "FM" that's "heading back into the studio" in October would be Stevie, Mick, John, & Hired-Out Producer. Lindsey can do his **** later.

2.) A Sheryl Crow/FM double bill is not what I really would have hoped for.The best idea for opening act I've heard yet is a big panel of us ledgies -- dozens of us -- onstage & wired for sound. We take questions from the audience, followed by intense debate & polemics. We'd sure have everyone's attention, I bet.

3.) Does Steve really hate Lindsey's production abilities or what???I guess she doesn't want him to arrange or orchestrate her stuff. I assume she doesn't mind if he still plays a little guitar on it, although maybe she doesn't dig that idea, either.

To reiterate my point from several weeks ago, there's no producer on Earth who is going to prevent Lindsey from arranging or orchestrating (the production nuts & bolts) his own material. So in that context, it's moot. The only control an outsider would have over Lindsey's material would be final say over which of his songs gets kept on the album -- & that would be true only if it were some guy the label appoints to the task, not Stevie's appointment.

[CADreaming]

If he's not producing or arranging Stevie's material (which seems like a possibility), then the "FM" that's "heading back into the studio" in October would be Stevie, Mick, John, & Hired-Out Producer. Lindsey can do his **** later.

Well, technically, he could have already done it. It could be what didn't go on GOS - again. Ha.

[jwd]

Saw this posted on another message board (A heavy metal related website), thought it was rather out of the blue:

* The "new album" is in fact a new compilation album that will feature several new tracks. Interestingly enough, one of the conditions for Stevie recording new Fleetwood Mac music was that Lindsey not be named primary producer. An outside collaborator, rumored to be John Shanks or Chris Lord-Alge, is being brought in to "even things up".

Makes perfect sense to me. I actually welcome and relish this condition. Lindsey did not produce the 'White Album', Rumours, and Tusk(special thanks to Lindsey). Probably their most loved and successful albums ever. I say give it a twirl! I mean whirl!

* The "new tour" is indeed a "farewell tour" and could last up to two years with a blowout finale being planned. The ideas and expectations for this tour are big amongst organizers with one idea being that the finale will take place at either Wembley Stadium (or Twickingham Stadium) in London, or New York City's iconic Central Park.

What's going to make it any bigger than the SYW Tour? The fact that it's labeled as their farewell tour? So many bands have had farewell tours that aren't. I don't think that's going to be a big selling point. Now bring on some past members of FM like Christine, Peter, and Bob and we're talking MAJOR!!!!


* Sheryl Crow will be participating in the recording the new Mac tunes. The first set of U.S. shows will, however, be a Fleetwood Mac/Sheryl Crow double-bill. Crow is reportedly set on opening for the group for the duration of the tour, including all overseas legs.

This doesn't excite me in the least. Sheryl is a formidable musician, but I don't get the FM connection at all.

[michelej1]

The ideas and expectations for this tour are big amongst organizers with one idea being that the finale will take place at either Wembley Stadium (or Twickingham Stadium) in London, or New York City's iconic Central Park.



With a finale in London, I've got one thing on my mind. Well, one woman on my mind . . . would be a perfect finale.

Michele

[aleuzzi]

With a finale in London, I've got one thing on my mind. Well, one woman on my mind . . . would be a perfect finale.

Michele

Indeed! Given that this is supposed to be the final Mac album (or is it?) the band SHOULD ask Christine to play, write and sing on it. And she should say yes to this hypothetical offer.

[ajmccarrell]

With a finale in London, I've got one thing on my mind. Well, one woman on my mind . . . would be a perfect finale.

Michele

None other than PETULA CLARK!!! :D

[LukeA]

Saw this posted on another message board (A heavy metal related website), thought it was rather out of the blue:

* The "new album" is in fact a new compilation album that will feature several new tracks. Interestingly enough, one of the conditions for Stevie recording new Fleetwood Mac music was that Lindsey not be named primary producer. An outside collaborator, rumored to be John Shanks or Chris Lord-Alge, is being brought in to "even things up".

Whatever.

* The "new tour" is indeed a "farewell tour" and could last up to two years with a blowout finale being planned. The ideas and expectations for this tour are big amongst organizers with one idea being that the finale will take place at either Wembley Stadium (or Twickingham Stadium) in London, or New York City's iconic Central Park.

Can you say "cash grab"?

* The tour will kick off in the U.S. next Spring with a European tour of arenas and some stadiums to follow. The group are already being mentioned for next year's Heiniken Jammin' Festival in Italy.

Stadiums? LOLOL. A Fleetwood Mac farewell tour, even WITH Chris, wouldn't be able to headline a 50,000 stadium. A bunch of festivals (like said festival in Italy), sure... but, Springsteen, or U2 (who will be touring next year as well), they ain't.

* While Sheryl Crow will be participating in the recording the new Mac tunes, she will not be made a member of the band, contrary to what she announced to the public earlier this year. The first set of U.S. shows will, however, be a Fleetwood Mac/Sheryl Crow double-bill. Crow is reportedly set on opening for the group for the duration of the tour, including all overseas legs.

That's nice. Considering this will be 2009 and not 1996, I'm not sure the already economically depressed market will be enthused to pay $200 for Golden Circle seating to see a Fleetwood Mac/Sheryl Crow bill.

* A lot of money is being put into this and the band are reportedly shopping their name around to both LiveNation and AEG Live for the farewell tour, and any one-offs that will follow.

According to another post I just read on this board, it seems that Live Nation is considering one of its 360 (degree) deals for the next year or so. Then again, AEG/Concerts West already has the inroads due to promoting the bulk of the SYW tour.

[Gailh]

With a finale in London, I've got one thing on my mind. Well, one woman on my mind . . . would be a perfect finale.

Michele

It would be great but don't hold your breath! Wembley Stadium or Twickenham (not Twickingham) would be good venues.

I think that they could make room for her on some recordings if she wanted to and I think that it is a very BIG if. Mind you Martin Wyatt is supposedly negotiating with Universal to "rework" ITM so maybe the two are linked.

Stevie obviously missed Christine's input on the last album so now Lindsey can't be the sole producer- that should make for an interesting atmosphere when they do start recording.

Gail

[iamnotafraid]

[QUOTE=estranged4life;762642]

* The "new album" is in fact a new compilation album that will feature several new tracks. Interestingly enough, one of the conditions for Stevie recording new Fleetwood Mac music was that Lindsey not be named primary producer.

If the "new album" is a compilation I will be very very disapointed. I always take Stevie's rants about Lindsey with a grain of salt. I think a co-producer might work fine, with Lindsy having the final word though.

* The "new tour" is indeed a "farewell tour" and could last up to two years with a blowout finale being planned. The ideas and expectations for this tour are big amongst organizers with one idea being that the finale will take place at either Wembley Stadium (or Twickingham Stadium) in London, or New York City's iconic Central Park.

Fleetwood Mac is my favorite band, but I wish this would be a farewell tour. I hate to see them decline so I wish they would end on a high note. But I do hope the tour plays all over so those that haven't seen them will get one last chance.

*The first set of U.S. shows will, however, be a Fleetwood Mac/Sheryl Crow double-bill. Crow is reportedly set on opening for the group for the duration of the tour, including all overseas legs.

I like Sheryl Crow but the Mac doesn't need her as an opening act, or as a member. Why would they need any opening act? Don't we all want it to be the Mac on stage for 2 to 2 1/2 hours?


* A lot of money is being put into this and the band are reportedly shopping their name around to both LiveNation and AEG Live for the farewell tour, and any one-offs that will follow.

If a lot of money is put into this and WalMart is the exclusive seller I think this could be very big. But again please no compilation CD. The Eagles CD
was new material and WalMart sold about 7 million copies of that CD. And in my opinion their new CD wasn't any good.

I do like the suggestion made by someone else that there could or should be a special guess if Fleetwood Mac performs their finale in England!

[MacMan]

ALL OF THIS, is to be taken with a grain of salt until confirmed

From a blog? Unless this guys some sort of insider... I don't believe 3/4 of this.

[SteveMacD]

If it truly is a farewell album, I’d rather it not be another friggin’ compilation album with new songs. I’d rather they release the new songs from Stevie and Lindsey, with new songs from Christine, Bob Welch, Peter Green, Jeremy Spencer, Billy Burnette, Rick Vito, and Bekka Bramlett. Make it the one album all fans could enjoy.

[JbbyStew86]

I hold all this with a grain of salt given that its off a blog and not a reputable source of information. Given its true:
*Lindsey not being the primary producer is NOT the way to end Fleetwood Mac's career.
*Sheryl Crow as an opener or co-headliner is rediculous.
This coupled with Stevie's request for LB to not be the primary makes me wonder just how much pandering Warner Bros. is willing to do

[michelej1]

.

I like Sheryl Crow but the Mac doesn't need her as an opening act, or as a member. Why would they need any opening act? Don't we all want it to be the Mac on stage for 2 to 2 1/2 hours?



Chirping crickets, followed by The Chain. That's all I need. But if Sheryl can sell a few tickets, I guess -- I guess it's a good thing. Whatever lubricates the wheels and helps make it happen.

Michele

[Lee]

I hate to hear that it's a "farewell" tour if that's what it really is. But the Eagles have had a farewell for years, so I tend not to believe that it is really that.

Yeah, I have nothing against Sheryl Crow, I do like her music, but they don't really need an opening act unless, of course, they think she going to draw more people to their shows & therefore get even more money. But really, they are a "draw" all by themselves. Funny, I was just at the grocery store last night, & a Sheryl Crow came on, Love is Free, & right after that, they played Stand Back. I thought maybe that was a sign of things to come. :lol:

As far as Lindsey not producing their new CD, well, what can I say? It does sound like Stevie won't do it unless Lindsey doesn't get to be the boss. :laugh:

Lee :)

[BombaySapphire3]

Fleetwood Mac is my favorite band, but I wish this would be a farewell tour. I hate to see them decline so I wish they would end on a high note.



The time for that has passed I fear..it ended with the final show of The Dance reunion tour IMO.

[TrueFaith77]

If it truly is a farewell album, I’d rather it not be another friggin’ compilation album with new songs. I’d rather they release the new songs from Stevie and Lindsey, with new songs from Christine, Bob Welch, Peter Green, Jeremy Spencer, Billy Burnette, Rick Vito, and Bekka Bramlett. Make it the one album all fans could enjoy.

THAT is actually a GREAT GREAT GREAT idea!!!!!!:xoxo:

[strandinthewind]

LOL! I wish for Stevie's "Farewell Interview" we could all call her on the carpet... I mean, I would seriously LOVE to hear her admit she's lying. Can you imagine her answering it with "I lied." Just once that would be so grand . . . .

What has she lied about that has you in such a tizzy?

But, she has said that when she did the interviews for Street Angel she was horrified because she had to promote a record she knew was not up to snuff - she may have even used the word lying in there.

But, as to the other stuff, I am sure they have all lied at one time or another :shrug:

[David]

Lindsey did not produce Rumours and TuskOh, sure he did, Joe -- the band was its own producer in those days, but Lindsey had the single biggest role of anyone, inside or outside the band, in designing the tracks & orchestrating the instrumentation & vocals.

[RockALittle250]

Makes perfect sense to me. I actually welcome and relish this condition. Lindsey did not produce the 'White Album', Rumours, and Tusk(special thanks to Lindsey). Probably their most loved and successful albums ever. I say give it a twirl! I mean whirl!

I completely agree. Given the time that they are planning on doing this, a compilation album makes sense because they won't have a whole lot of time in the recording studio, so they are using their time wisely. Plus, when TVBOFM was released, there were no new recordings on it, so i have a feeling that this compilation album might be half old stuff and half new stuff (like 50/50), or half newly-recorded old stuff and new stuff. SYW was great, but as many critics said, it was too much like a Stevie solo album and Lindsey solo album put on one CD...it was just too much!

[Villavic]

I don't think another producer could be better for this new album, except Richard or Ken, who are aligned to the Fleetwood Mac sound.

I don't think Stevie hates Lindsey as producer, but if the article is true, maybe it means she just wants a neutral element to attenuate the typical conflicts between them.

Well if the tours ends in London, I hope that means CHRISTINE MCVIE at least for a last show. That would be magical!

If it's true, is cool news, but please no more compilations!!!

[jwd]

Oh, sure he did, Joe -- the band was its own producer in those days, but Lindsey had the single biggest role of anyone, inside or outside the band, in designing the tracks & orchestrating the instrumentation & vocals.

David, you know I respect your opinion(s). I just disagree with you here. I don't think Lindsey had a more dominating role in the production of Fleetwood Mac's sound until Tusk. You know when he wanted to start recording his songs at home/on his own. What I believe, and Mick feared, was the beginning of the fragmentation of Fleetwood Mac. Concerning Rumours and their eponymous album, the band had other producers involved, namely Keith Olsen, Richard Dashut, Ken Caillat, and Cris Morris(who?). These men had to have had some role, in more than just a minor way, in the sound of Fleetwood Mac. Why were they there? I'm not saying that Lindsey didn't "influence" the sound of the band. After all he was a writer and the lead guitarist. I know that he and John butted heads on occassion over the way John played his bass lines. I think this is documented in the Tusk documentary. I'm sure Mick, John, and Christine played just as heavy a hand, and probably more so than Lindsey, in their sound, especially on the first two records. What I believe happened after Tusk, was that Lindsey took on the primary role, if not sole producer or their records. I think, if this article is accurate, that Stevie just wants an outside producer, besides Lindsey, to work on her songs, within the confines of Fleetwood Mac. I think John Shanks did an incredible job on her TISL songs. Do you not hear differences in the way Stevie's songs sound on TISL to the way they sound on SYW? I have to say that I like the former more as opposed to the latter.

[michelej1]

David, you know I respect your opinion(s). I just disagree with you here. I don't think Lindsey had a more dominating role in the production of Fleetwood Mac's sound until Tusk.

I didn't even know there was a dispute about it. I really don't have an abundance of information about the White album's production, but for Rumours, which has been discussed ad nauseum, everyone that has talked about the production of the album, including both FM members and the outside producers have repeatedly acknowledged Lindsey's dominent role in producing that album. In fact, it was probably because he was so pivotal with Rumours that Mick (and the rest of the band) were grudgingly willing to give him as much leeway as he had with Tusk.

Michele

[michelej1]

Well if the tours ends in London, I hope that means CHRISTINE MCVIE at least for a last show. That would be magical!


Yes, I'd definitely expect it to be just a one-off thing for her, in London. I surely wouldn't expect her to be involved in the rest of the tour.

Michele

[jwd]

I completely agree.

I knew I liked you for some reason. ;)

SYW was great, but as many critics said, it was too much like a Stevie solo album and Lindsey solo album put on one CD...it was just too much!

I'm one of those critics. I want the band to sound like they did in the early years. I guess the best adjective to use here would be homogenous, like a band again. I think that would be the greatest advantage of bringing in an outside producer this time.

[jwd]

I didn't even know there was a dispute about it. For Rumours, which has been discussed ad nauseum, everyone that has talked about the production of the album, including both FM members and the outside producers have repeatedly acknowledged Lindsey's dominent role in producing that album.

I just can't beleive that they gave credit to other producers on Rumours then. Why were they involved? Am I missing something here?

In fact, it was probably because he was so pivotal with Rumours that Mick (and the rest of the band) were grudgingly willing to give him as much leeway as he had with Tusk.

Michele, I believe the reason Lindsey was given as much leeway with Tusk was because the man was unhappy in Fleetwood Mac at the time. Surprise! He wanted the band to move in a different direction, away from the sound of Rumours. He would have left if the rest of the band didn't let him have more control.

[michelej1]

I just can't beleive that they gave credit to other producers on Rumours then. Why were they involved? Am I missing something here?


They gave credit to the other producers, because they were the other producers. Just like they were producers on Tusk. Lindsey didn't do that by himself either. Clearly everyone lent a hand. They all participated. But Lindsey was the one who most dominated the direction of Rumours, at least from what everyone involved in the project says. Yes, you're right Lindsey might have bolted if they hadn't let him do his thing with Tusk, but I don't think they would have much cared if he had bolted, if they hadn't thought he contributed so much to Rumours' success. I don't think those guys were just trying to make him happy because they liked his smile.

Michele

[strandinthewind]

^^^

I rather agree.

I will say, however, that when you have someone as multi-talented as LB, they kind of can't help but wear the producer's hat. In other words, Stevie can play a little piano and guitar, but that is about it, esp. back then. LB, on the other hand plays most intruments and, for Tusk, made instruments out of non-musical things. So, I think when LB plays a guitar part for one of his songs, he knows there will be a few other parts to that sound. SO, he sort of always is producing. I suppose it is the same vocally for Stevie. I think she hears the harmonies in her head and produces them as such.

I think the job of the other producers is perhaps more of a mangerial one and then arranging the sounds already produced.

[jwd]

They gave credit to the other producers, because they were the other producers. Just like they were producers on Tusk. Lindsey didn't do that by himself either. Clearly everyone lent a hand. They all participated. But Lindsey was the one who most dominated the direction of Rumours, at least from what everyone involved in the project says.

The key here being was that there WERE other producers involved in the sound, dominating or not.

Yes, you're right Lindsey might have bolted if they hadn't let him do his thing with Tusk, but I don't think they would have much cared if he had bolted, if they hadn't thought he contributed so much to Rumours' success. I don't think those guys were just trying to make him happy because they liked his smile.

Much cared?! Are you KIDDING?! Everyone had dollar signs in their eyes at that time. Nobody wanted to mess with the magical formula they had found after all those years "working the streets". I think that feeling applied much more to "Lindsey the guitarist" than "Lindsey the producer".

[Villavic]

I didn't even know there was a dispute about it. I really don't have an abundance of information about the White album's production, but for Rumours, which has been discussed ad nauseum, everyone that has talked about the production of the album, including both FM members and the outside producers have repeatedly acknowledged Lindsey's dominent role in producing that album.

Michele

I agree. Don't know if actually he got the dominant role, but he tried from the beginning. Remember his fights with John about how to play the bass, mentioned in Mick's book and admitted by both guys in the Making of Rumours video. Or Stevie in the same video saying Lindsey had a special way to make her songs sound good ("when he was happy with me..")

So thos facts evidence an active involvement in albums productions, always.

[strandinthewind]

. . . Much cared?! Are you KIDDING?! Everyone had dollar signs in their eyes at that time. Nobody wanted to mess with the magical formula they had found after all those years "working the streets". I think that feeling applied much more to "Lindsey the guitarist" than "Lindsey the producer".

I think the point is that LB was the one wanting to mess with that magical formula :shrug:

[jwd]

I think the point is that LB was the one wanting to mess with that magical formula :shrug:

No, no Jason. I was referring to the band makeup. Who was in the band. Lindsey leaving the band and the implications it might have on their success. Not how Lindsey wanted to make a sharp left from the "Rumours sound". The band was much more willing to experiment with a more alternative sound as opposed to finding a guitarist to replace Lindsey.

[strandinthewind]

^^^

Ahhhh -- I see now :cool:

[bucklind17]

Or Stevie in the same video saying Lindsey had a special way to make her songs sound good ("when he was happy with me..")
.

I think that's the key here. I don't think Stevie has many qualms about Lindsey's actual talents as a producer, it's likely more that she has issues with the circumstances surrounding getting him to produce her songs to his potential, and to what she has in mind. It could simply be that Stevie doesn't want to have to fight tooth and nail to get her song to sound a certain way and having other producers will help her get what she wants for her songs more easily.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Maybe they can get Christine to join them for the UK shows.. (possible DVD/CD recording there)

..

One can hope anyway!

[jbrownsjr]

Oh, sure he did, Joe -- the band was its own producer in those days, but Lindsey had the single biggest role of anyone, inside or outside the band, in designing the tracks & orchestrating the instrumentation & vocals.

No, Stevie produced most of the Tusk tracks, in fact she got pissed at Lindsey around the Tango album cos she did all the work...

[michelej1]

Much cared?! Are you KIDDING?! Everyone had dollar signs in their eyes at that time. Nobody wanted to mess with the magical formula they had found after all those years "working the streets". I think that feeling applied much more to "Lindsey the guitarist" than "Lindsey the producer".

I think Lindsey as just the guitarist is quite a fungible commodity. It's Lindsey as a producer that they most wanted to keep happy. He was chief organizer on Rumours, as I believe Ken and Richard would readily attest based on all the Rumours analysis that's gone on over the years. I think the role he played in making Rumours paved the way for Tusk. Without his production on Rumours, if all he'd done is play guitar and write GYOW, I doubt he would have had the leverage with the band that would have prompted them to hand him the reigns for Tusk.

Michele

[John Run]

[QUOTE=jwd;762683]Makes perfect sense to me. I actually welcome and relish this condition. Lindsey did not produce the 'White Album', Rumours, and Tusk

Oh, I think most of the written and spoken evidence of the people involved in the making of Rumours would contradict this statement. Richard Dashut himself has said he always felt bad that Lindsey did not get a production credit on Rumours. Because in his words, it was Lindsey who took the point on the production of the album. I do think that all of the members and Ken and Richard all made important contribitions and there was more of democracy at that time, then what went on in later albums, but to say Lindsey did not serve as the principle sonic architect of the songs is in my opinion not accurate.

[SandyMac]

David, you know I respect your opinion(s). I just disagree with you here. I don't think Lindsey had a more dominating role in the production of Fleetwood Mac's sound until Tusk. You know when he wanted to start recording his songs at home/on his own. What I believe, and Mick feared, was the beginning of the fragmentation of Fleetwood Mac. Concerning Rumours and their eponymous album, the band had other producers involved, namely Keith Olsen, Richard Dashut, Ken Caillat, and Cris Morris(who?). These men had to have had some role, in more than just a minor way, in the sound of Fleetwood Mac. Why were they there? I'm not saying that Lindsey didn't "influence" the sound of the band. After all he was a writer and the lead guitarist. I know that he and John butted heads on occassion over the way John played his bass lines. I think this is documented in the Tusk documentary. I'm sure Mick, John, and Christine played just as heavy a hand, and probably more so than Lindsey, in their sound, especially on the first two records. What I believe happened after Tusk, was that Lindsey took on the primary role, if not sole producer or their records. I think, if this article is accurate, that Stevie just wants an outside producer, besides Lindsey, to work on her songs, within the confines of Fleetwood Mac. I think John Shanks did an incredible job on her TISL songs. Do you not hear differences in the way Stevie's songs sound on TISL to the way they sound on SYW? I have to say that I like the former more as opposed to the latter.

This is just my opinion and just came to me so maybe I need to think through this, but I think John Shanks brought out the "Rock Stevie" and Lindsey brings out the "soft, underlying I want to rock out, but not yet" or just a tad under that wild Stevie vocal we all know can come out. I say we need a producer that can produce Stevie in both.

[jwd]

Oh, I think most of the written and spoken evidence of the people involved in the making of Rumours would contradict this statement. Richard Dashut himself has said he always felt bad that Lindsey did not get a production credit on Rumours. Because in his words, it was Lindsey who took the point on the production of the album. I do think that all of the members and Ken and Richard all made important contribitions and there was more of democracy at that time, then what went on in later albums, but to say Lindsey did not serve as the principle sonic architect of the songs is in my opinion not accurate.


Therein lies the main point, my point, and Stevie's desire for this new recording. I will cede that perhaps I should have used principal producer or lone producer of Rumours when I was referring to Lindsey's (non)role on that album.

[jwd]

I think Lindsey as just the guitarist is quite a fungible commodity. It's Lindsey as a producer that they most wanted to keep happy. He was chief organizer on Rumours, as I believe Ken and Richard would readily attest based on all the Rumours analysis that's gone on over the years. I think the role he played in making Rumours paved the way for Tusk. Without his production on Rumours, if all he'd done is play guitar and write GYOW, I doubt he would have had the leverage with the band that would have prompted them to hand him the reigns for Tusk.

Michele

I think we are just worlds apart in our opinions concerning our feelings about Lindsey's principal role in FM. I think Lindsey's main contribution to FM is his guitar playing, whereas you feel it is his production skills. Whether it's GYOW, "I'm So Afraid", or hell just about anything the man plays, he KICKS ASS! Ask most people what they like about Lindsey Buckingham and I'd bet my bottom dollar most people would say "he plays a mean guitar", or something along that line. I don't think many would say he is a great producer. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one Michele.

[jwd]

I think that's the key here. I don't think Stevie has many qualms about Lindsey's actual talents as a producer, it's likely more that she has issues with the circumstances surrounding getting him to produce her songs to his potential, and to what she has in mind. It could simply be that Stevie doesn't want to have to fight tooth and nail to get her song to sound a certain way and having other producers will help her get what she wants for her songs more easily.

That's an excellent point. And honestly I think that Lindsey still has issues with Stevie's celebrity and the fact that she became the "STAR" of the band. The question is not CAN he, but WILL he produce her songs the way they should be.

[CADreaming]

What has she lied about that has you in such a tizzy?

But, she has said that when she did the interviews for Street Angel she was horrified because she had to promote a record she knew was not up to snuff - she may have even used the word lying in there.

But, as to the other stuff, I am sure they have all lied at one time or another :shrug:

Not in a tizzy...just think she stretches the blanket a lot...

[vivfox]

SYW was great, but as many critics said, it was too much like a Stevie solo album and Lindsey solo album put on one CD...it was just too much!
When Tusk was released many articles including Rolling Stone Magazine reported that it sounded like a Stevie solo album a Lindsey solo album and a Christine solo album all rolled into one.

[vivfox]

No, Stevie produced most of the Tusk tracks, in fact she got pissed at Lindsey around the Tango album cos she did all the work...

I know you've gotta be joking here, right? Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think Stevie produced anything on TUSK and while the band was recording Tango she was on tour promoting RAL. She was hardly there for the recording of Tango.

[vivfox]

What has she lied about that has you in such a tizzy?

This comment was made based on what I had written about Stevie telling Sheryl it wasn't a good idea to bring a baby on the road if she was gonna be a member of FM. And then finding out Sheryl was gonna be the opening act I found it amusing that naturally she would bring little Wyatt on the road with her. So Stevie didn't think it was a good idea for Sheryl to bring the baby if she was part of FM, but didn't have a problem with SC bringing the baby as an opening act. Get it??
The so called lie was that.
I believe that if Sheryl had never opened her big mouth to the press about joining the band she might have actually been chosen to join FM. She was probably too excited to keep the great news to herself and in doing so, jumped the gun which probably pissed off FM and she blew her chance of becoming a member. Just my opinion.

[jwd]

This comment was made based on what I had written about Stevie telling Sheryl it wasn't a good idea to bring a baby on the road if she was gonna be a member of FM. And then finding out Sheryl was gonna be the opening act I found it amusing that naturally she would bring little Wyatt on the road with her. So Stevie didn't think it was a good idea for Sheryl to bring the baby if she was part of FM, but didn't have a problem with SC bringing the baby as an opening act. Get it??
The so called lie was that.


We don't know this to be fact for one. Secondly, Stevie has no control over who the opening act is. What she supposedly told Sheryl would basically just be considered some friendly advise. I'm sure Sheryl brings little Wyatt along with her on her current solo tour. It wouldn't stop her from bringing Wyatt along if she was a member of FM.

[DavidMn]

i feel like when the dust settles, it will be just Fleetwood Mac, like its been the last 2 tours.:nod:

[jwd]

i feel like when the dust settles, it will be just Fleetwood Mac, like its been the last 2 tours.:nod:

I hope you're right David. It just needs to be a knock down drag out FM Rockfest for 3+ hours. Peter Green, Christine McVie, Bob Welch, and Jeremy Spencer need to be there too! I love you all, please come back! :]

[DavidMn]

You know, Viagra would make an excellent tour sponsor! That way Mick could bring Harold the Dildo out of retirement!:laugh:

[jbrownsjr]

I know you've gotta be joking here, right? Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think Stevie produced anything on TUSK and while the band was recording Tango she was on tour promoting RAL. She was hardly there for the recording of Tango.

yes... but i wanted David to say it... lol

[CADreaming]

What she supposedly told Sheryl would basically just be considered some friendly advise. I'm sure Sheryl brings little Wyatt along with her on her current solo tour. [B]It wouldn't stop her from bringing Wyatt along if she was a member of FM.[B]

Which is exactly why I was referring to Stevie telling a lie. Here's what she said:

“Sheryl and I discussed this in the nicest of ways. Sheryl has a new baby, and a new baby is all encompassing. We decided it wasn’t the best idea,” says Nicks. “I had to explain to her the ups and downs of being in a band like Fleetwood Mac. You sign your name on the contract and it’s like being in the Army. You don’t have your own life anymore. That’s why I went solo.”

That insinuates the reason Stevie gave Sheryl for not being in FM was her baby, Wyatt. But, now the new info has Sheryl on the road with them anyway. So, Wyatt had nothing to do with it.

But, it's all good - it's Stevie's mo - she says stuff like that all the time. :laugh:

[CADreaming]

This comment was made based on what I had written about Stevie telling Sheryl it wasn't a good idea to bring a baby on the road if she was gonna be a member of FM. And then finding out Sheryl was gonna be the opening act I found it amusing that naturally she would bring little Wyatt on the road with her. So Stevie didn't think it was a good idea for Sheryl to bring the baby if she was part of FM, but didn't have a problem with SC bringing the baby as an opening act. Get it??
The so called lie was that.

Thank you. :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

Not in a tizzy...just think she stretches the blanket a lot...

I think people look at what she says in a vaccuum and do not consider time or context. I also think that if someone asked any of us exactly what happened in 1973, we might get the general story right with some hazy details. The Sheryl Crowe thing is a good example. Maybe in the beginning Stevie thought it might be a good idea to have her in the band, but changed her mind later. Who knows for sure. However, to say Stevie is lying through her teeth when she discussses it is speculation at best IMO because none of us were there.

Another good example is a few weeks ago, the article was discussed where Stevie said while LB was in the room that LB had really left after Mirage and came back to fo TITN. LB corrected her and said he never left FM. They went back and forth for a second and then she caved. Was she lying? I do not think so. I think she was giving her perception of events. Many, but not all, people at the time thought FM was broken up after Mirage.

In the end, lying involves some bad intent, which I do not think she has. Also, I am sure they lie to hide the bad stuff. I am sure there have interviews where they want to kill each other, but smile for the camera. I suppose that is lying, but they all do it.

[strandinthewind]

Which is exactly why I was referring to Stevie telling a lie. Here's what she said:



That insinuates the reason Stevie gave Sheryl for not being in FM was her baby, Wyatt. But, now the new info has Sheryl on the road with them anyway. So, Wyatt had nothing to do with it.

But, it's all good - it's Stevie's mo - she says stuff like that all the time. :laugh:

It is possible it was both reasons :shrug: Or, do you think it has to be one or the other?

ALso, SC as an opening act can leave anytime she wants assuming she fulfills her contract, etc. If she joins FM, she is way more committed, which is what La Nicks said when she said "being in a band like Fleetwood Mac." If you are the opening act, you are not in the band and therefore do not have the obligations and "ups and downs" that go with it.

I just do not see the glaring incinsistency.

[jwd]

It is possible it was both reasons :shrug: Or, do you think it has to be one or the other?

ALso, SC as an opening act can leave anytime she wants assuming she fulfills her contract, etc. If she joins FM, she is way more committed, which is what La Nicks said when she said "being in a band like Fleetwood Mac." If you are the opening act, you are not in the band and therefore do not have the obligations and "ups and downs" that go with it.

I just do not see the glaring incinsistency.

My point was that we don't even know if Sheryl is the opening act. That has not been confirmed. Even if she was, it is different from being IN FM. Did Stevie request that, or does she control who the opening act is? I don't think so. I don't see the glaring inconsistency either. Geeeesh! So I agree with the way you are seeing it here Jason.

[jwd]

I know you've gotta be joking here, right? Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think Stevie produced anything on TUSK and while the band was recording Tango she was on tour promoting RAL. She was hardly there for the recording of Tango.

Makes up for all those months Stevie waited tables at Big Bob's(or whatever the hell that place was called), while Lindsey was practicing his geetar. :p

[RockALittle250]

I'm so hoping that they crank out one really good radio-friendly single...their last one was Seven Wonders. Peacekeeper and SYW did not do well on radio and were not very good singles anyway, so i'm hoping that they will have something that will chart well on the Hot 100!

[David]

Makes up for all those months Stevie waited tables at Big Bob's(or whatever the hell that place was called), while Lindsey was practicing his geetar. :pBob's Big Boy. They had great shakes. I miss those old diners.

[CADreaming]

I think people look at what she says in a vaccuum and do not consider time or context. I also think that if someone asked any of us exactly what happened in 1973, we might get the general story right with some hazy details. The Sheryl Crowe thing is a good example. Maybe in the beginning Stevie thought it might be a good idea to have her in the band, but changed her mind later. Who knows for sure. However, to say Stevie is lying through her teeth when she discussses it is speculation at best IMO because none of us were there.

Another good example is a few weeks ago, the article was discussed where Stevie said while LB was in the room that LB had really left after Mirage and came back to fo TITN. LB corrected her and said he never left FM. They went back and forth for a second and then she caved. Was she lying? I do not think so. I think she was giving her perception of events. Many, but not all, people at the time thought FM was broken up after Mirage.

In the end, lying involves some bad intent, which I do not think she has. Also, I am sure they lie to hide the bad stuff. I am sure there have interviews where they want to kill each other, but smile for the camera. I suppose that is lying, but they all do it.

You're right...they do all lie...and I don't even blame them for most of it. It's just comical, that's all. I don't expect her to have all her facts or memories straight about past events. But, I do think she lies and I do mean flat out lies (or has told things enough to where she actually does believe it now). I think it's "all about protection", not a malicious thing. Like I said though, if Stevie and the lot do lie in the press they have their reasons. I wouldn't want someone all up in my stuff all the time either.

And, btw, Stevie and Lindsey were debating the actual year he left in the article you mentioned. She said he left in '83 and he said no, it was '87. Then, she caved because she knows she can't remember - she even said that after they discussed it. She also insinuated her memory problem regarding that time last year in the CBS interview. Rita Whatshername brought up the LB fight and she looked at her and said "well, that was a difficult time - in '87?" like she was asking Rita if she had the year right.

But, change her mind - oh yeah - she's gonna do that. Being a Gemini - she doesn't remember or stick by most of what she says because in a few minutes or an hour or maybe tomorrow she's gonna feel totally different about it and have a different opinion. My best friend is Gemini and it's a trip. She hates for me to remind her of something she said too....lol...

[michelej1]

You're right...they do all lie...and I don't even blame them for most of it. It's just comical, that's all. I don't expect her to have all her facts or memories straight about past events. But, I do think she lies and I do mean flat out lies (or has told things enough to where she actually does believe it now). I think it's "all about protection", not a malicious thing. Like I said though, if Stevie and the lot do lie in the press they have their reasons. I wouldn't want someone all up in my stuff all the time either.

And, btw, Stevie and Lindsey were debating the actual year he left in the article you mentioned. She said he left in '83 and he said no, it was '87. Then, she caved because she knows she can't remember - she even said that after they discussed it. She also insinuated her memory problem regarding that time last year in the CBS interview.

And although most human beings (luckily) don't have a record of what they say for people to present to them, it's different with the celebrities. When they contradict themselves, you can easily prove it. So, it's impossible to look at one comment in isolation and say it's the unequivocal truth or that they even believe it's the unequivocal truth, when you know they said the exact opposite.

As far as when Lindsey left FM, I don't think anyone called Stevie a liar during that discussion. The issue was whether or not she was RIGHT and she wasn't. Her perception is one thing, good, bad or indifferent. But the facts are quite another.

There was one interview when John says he doesn't remember most things that happened until he hears Mick talking about it and THEN it returns to him. That's kind of a funny thing to think about, so many large chunks of your life just being an absolute daze. You see it through a glass darkly.

Michele

[strandinthewind]

Actually, I think La Nicks justs lets LB win the arguments like that one. I think she knows with him it is all about winning the war, so to speak.

Just my opinion.

[RockALittle250]

Actually, I think La Nicks justs lets LB win the arguments like that one. I think she knows with him it is all about winning the war, so to speak.

Just my opinion.

Stevie herself always says that she hates any kind of confrontation, so i completely agree with you.

[bucklind17]

Stevie herself always says that she hates any kind of confrontation, so i completely agree with you.

I think that's a good chunk of the reason why she doesn't want him to be the sole producer! Lindsey not having the final say = less confrontation.

[David]

Actually, I think La Nicks justs lets LB win the arguments like that one. I think she knows with him it is all about winning the war, so to speak.Yes, I think she consequently does walk on eggshells around him. The two of them have always struck me as mutually brittle & wary. They're a funny pair -- they seem to be ok snuggling against each other during a soft acoustic song, but the minute they start talking -- about anything -- you can almost see one warily eye the other & that strange wall go up between them. That's what always made me say that, although they may have loved each other back when, they didn't seem to like each other.

Haven't many of us loved but not really liked someone?

[Betsy]

I'm so hoping that they crank out one really good radio-friendly single...their last one was Seven Wonders. Peacekeeper and SYW did not do well on radio and were not very good singles anyway, so i'm hoping that they will have something that will chart well on the Hot 100!

I don't see this happening, unless they bring Christine into the equation. She had the hits (IMHO) and her voice added to the LB, SN songs. I wish she would come back for one more album. I loved Temporary One on the Dance Album. I wish it had been released as a single.

[michelej1]

Haven't many of us loved but not really liked someone?

Yes, I think of it as knowing you could strangle someone with your bare hands, yet also knowing that you'd be devastated if anything ever happened to them. They have both noted that they were never really friends, even when they were lovers. I think with Fleetwood Mac in general -- not just Lindsey and Stevie -- there's this sense that you don't have much in common, you wouldn't choose these people to hang out with, yet you're connected to them and there's almost a feeling of frustration stemming from that perrenial connection that you never really chose.

It would be easy to say that the music was the only bond, but I think when you take away the music, the tie is still there. It would be more apt to say that the music is the only thing that made them able to fully appreciate the bond. With that gone, they don't really know how to relate.

Yes, I think she consequently does walk on eggshells around him. The two of them have always struck me as mutually brittle & wary. They're a funny pair -- they seem to be ok snuggling against each other during a soft acoustic song, but the minute they start talking -- about anything -- you can almost see one warily eye the other & that strange wall go up between them. That's what always made me say that, although they may have loved each other back when, they didn't seem to like each other.

I think she avoids confrontation sometimes and invites it at others. She has discussed how they'd get into a fight at the studio and she'd storm out, think about what she should have said, go home and practice speeches and return the next day to get into it again.

Then, you know around The Dance she would say how no one wanted the whole thing to blow up over a little inconsequential thing. So, I think they were especially ginger in their dealings then. I think it goes back and forth. Sometimes jab, sometimes touch with gossamer wings.

I would say not only with this band, but with couples in general, any couples -- Martin and Lewis, Lucy and Desi, Siskel and Ebert . . . it's fascinating to me when they fight, but it's even more fascinating when they don't fight. I mean the fights get all the attention, but the way they tolerate each other is overlooked and I think the greatest secret to the relationship is found in the tolerance, rather than the friction. It's the things you give each other permission to do, without objection -- no matter how nutty -- that fascinate me.

I think so many people like the Tusk footage and a lot of that fondness has to do with the way Stevie and Lindsey are not fighting during Angel. It's kind of mesmerizing.

Michele

[RockALittle250]

I don't see this happening, unless they bring Christine into the equation. She had the hits (IMHO) and her voice added to the LB, SN songs. I wish she would come back for one more album. I loved Temporary One on the Dance Album. I wish it had been released as a single.

They would gladly have her back, but as we all know, Christine is quite happy staying in retirement. :(

[vermicious knid]

I would say not only with this band, but with couples in general, any couples -- Martin and Lewis, Lucy and Desi, Siskel and Ebert . . . it's fascinating to me when they fight, but it's even more fascinating when they don't fight.

Off topic, but this clip makes me laugh.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fojNooSRccA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fojNooSRccA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[CADreaming]

I would say not only with this band, but with couples in general, any couples -- Martin and Lewis, Lucy and Desi, Siskel and Ebert . . . it's fascinating to me when they fight, but it's even more fascinating when they don't fight. I mean the fights get all the attention, but the way they tolerate each other is overlooked and I think the greatest secret to the relationship is found in the tolerance, rather than the friction. It's the things you give each other permission to do, without objection -- no matter how nutty -- that fascinate me.

Very interesting. I never thought about it that way, but it's true.

I think so many people like the Tusk footage and a lot of that fondness has to do with the way Stevie and Lindsey are not fighting during Angel. It's kind of mesmerizing.

Michele

It is great footage. I think a reality shows through there - even from that long ago - and that is that they know 1000% how to deal with each other and do it quite well. She even laughed when he was making one of his "suggestions". They don't have to always be in some knock down drag out. It could be amusing to them when they are disagreeing. Perhaps they look at those moments as being caricatures of themselves. You know, the whole Lindsey and Stevie don't get along schtick. Oh, here we go again type thing..:rolleyes:

[strandinthewind]

. . . but with couples in general, any couples -- Martin and Lewis, Lucy and Desi, Siskel and Ebert . . . it's fascinating to me when they fight, but it's even more fascinating when they don't fight. I mean the fights get all the attention, but the way they tolerate each other is overlooked and I think the greatest secret to the relationship is found in the tolerance, rather than the friction. It's the things you give each other permission to do, without objection -- no matter how nutty -- that fascinate me . . . .

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cB4IAdUApPE&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cB4IAdUApPE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

comes to mind :shrug:

Burton and Liz were sex on a stick even in this emotional diatribe

Also--

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[SpyNote]

Very, VERY interesting...

3.) Does Steve really hate Lindsey's production abilities or what???

Well, he did f*ck up Stevie's songs pretty bad on SYW. I've always felt that album was "Lindsey's revenge." :laugh:

[Madness Fades]

Well, he did f*ck up Stevie's songs pretty bad on SYW. I've always felt that album was "Lindsey's revenge." :laugh:

I disagree, I think he did his best to bring the songs stevie brought up to an acceptable standard

[strandinthewind]

I disagree, I think he did his best to bring the songs stevie brought up to an acceptable standard

I think the point is his best was inadequate in that case of SYW. He had done brilliant things with the same kind of demos before and did not on SYW. I think his fans are loathe to admit that because somehow it seemingly lessens him. Everyone fails and he did in the eyes of most (that I've heard tell) in the case of SYW. His songs were great, and should have been after working on them so long. Who knows -- maybe if he had had more time, his work on La Nicks' demos would have been better. But, he had about two years and had heard a few of them before. And, some came in a more fleshed out form than just her on a piano. Actually, the No Light demo (GB) was, I believe, just that - her on a piano -- and that IMO is the best song on SYW.

In the end, I wish they would collaborate instead of doing whatever they did on SYW.

[gldstwmn]

I think the point is his best was inadequate in that case of SYW. He had done brilliant things with the same kind of demos before and did not on SYW. I think his fans are loathe to admit that because somehow it seemingly lessens him. Everyone fails and he did in the eyes of most (that I've heard tell) in the case of SYW. His songs were great, and should have been after working on them so long. Who knows -- maybe if he had had more time, his work on La Nicks' demos would have been better. But, he had about two years and had heard a few of them before. And, some came in a more fleshed out form than just her on a piano. Actually, the No Light demo (GB) was, I believe, just that - her on a piano -- and that IMO is the best song on SYW.

In the end, I wish they would collaborate instead of doing whatever they did on SYW.


You're confusing No Light and The Tower.

[Miss Vicky]

Yeah, he's got them confused.

"The Tower" was called "Goodbye Baby" on SYW.

"No Light" is what became "Planets Of the Universe" on TISL. In which case Stevie took a song that was simple, yet stunningly beautiful and turned it into sterile, electronic crap.

[strandinthewind]

You're confusing No Light and The Tower.

The synapses don't fire like they used to :eek:

[strandinthewind]

. . . "No Light" is what became "Planets Of the Universe" on TISL. In which case Stevie took a song that was simple, yet stunningly beautiful and turned it into sterile, electronic crap.

And - put an awful, "monotonal" ( :cool: ) vocal on it - though I do not mind the music.

Though, I have to say, the dance remixes were slammin'

The live version though :eek:

I hated that tour for her.

[TrueFaith77]

And - put an awful, "monotonal" ( :cool: ) vocal on it - though I do not mind the music.

Though, I have to say, the dance remixes were slammin'

The live version though :eek:

I hated that tour for her.


There's a dance remix of "Goodbye Baby"!?

[golden braid]

There's a dance remix of "Goodbye Baby"!?

He's referring to Planets of the Universe.

[TrueFaith77]

He's referring to Planets of the Universe.

oh :o

u can imagine. . .

[strandinthewind]

He's referring to Planets of the Universe.

So was Ms. Vicky :shrug:

I am so misunderstood :D

[RockALittle250]

It was John Shanks' magical touch that made POTU so great, and Lindsey himself admitted that to John and Stevie. Planets was modernized and made a little more mainstream, and it definately needed that kind of change, because the maxi-single went to number 1 on the dance charts, and the album version was Grammy nominated! I think Lindsey likes John's work, so maybe he would be the best choice for the producer of the Mac's new album. On the Destiny Rules documentary, I got the feeling that Lindsey wasn't too fond of Chris Lord-Alge.

[strandinthewind]

^^^

I am unsure if LB disliked CLA's actual work or that he was too busy to mix LB's production in a way that LB thought it should be mixed. Wasn't that the dilemma on the doc.?

Also, I like Shank's production on most of TISL. I just was not wild about La Nicks' vocal on POTU. I think the song TISL worked out great!

[MacMan]

Is Chris Lorde-Alge an actual producer or a mixer? I see his name a lot as a mixer, but not producer...

John Shanks, I think, did a great job on the TISL tracks, especially Planets and TISL... and I think her deep monotonal voice on both tracks works really well... especially Planets since it's kind of a dark song... And yeah, Planets didn't translate well at all live, which is too bad cause it sounds great on the cd.

[RockALittle250]

Is Chris Lorde-Alge an actual producer or a mixer? I see his name a lot as a mixer, but not producer...

John Shanks, I think, did a great job on the TISL tracks, especially Planets and TISL... and I think her deep monotonal voice on both tracks works really well... especially Planets since it's kind of a dark song... And yeah, Planets didn't translate well at all live, which is too bad cause it sounds great on the cd.

I believe he does both, but is prodominetely a mixer.

[SpyNote]

I disagree, I think he did his best to bring the songs stevie brought up to an acceptable standard

My main problem with SYW is that it didn't sound like a classic Fleetwood Mac album, and that's what I (and I'd imagine many longtime fans) wanted. It sounded like one of Lindsey's solo albums, which would have been fine if this were his album. Christine should have been allowed to record material for it, which I recall she was willing to do.

[BombaySapphire3]

My main problem with SYW is that it didn't sound like a classic Fleetwood Mac album, and that's what I (and I'd imagine many longtime fans) wanted. It sounded like one of Lindsey's solo albums, which would have been fine if this were his album. Christine should have been allowed to record material for it, which I recall she was willing to do.

I believe she was and we have Mick's unfailing greed to thank for her not participating.What could have been the band's finest album since Tusk was not to be thanks to that quality of his .

[Gailh]

I believe she was and we have Mick's unfailing greed to thank for her not participating.What could have been the band's finest album since Tusk was not to be thanks to that quality of his .

Is there any evidence that Christine was willing to participate on the album? I've seen it discussed here and it is the generally accepted version but I don't recall reading any direct quotes from the lady herself or did I miss them?

Gail

[TrueFaith77]

My main problem with SYW is that it didn't sound like a classic Fleetwood Mac album, and that's what I (and I'd imagine many longtime fans) wanted. It sounded like one of Lindsey's solo albums, which would have been fine if this were his album. Christine should have been allowed to record material for it, which I recall she was willing to do.

Well Mirage and Tango In The Night, for better or for worse, sounded like Lindsey solo albums, too (natural follow-ups to Law & Order and Go Insane). Say You Will followed the, admittedly, "classic-sounding" a) The Dance materials, b) "Twisted" (not sure what LB's involvement was on that one though), and c) "I Miss You." But Say You Will sounds like. . . Gift of Screws.

1) If Stevie had not wanted an album that sounded like Gift of Screws, she should not have agreed to build a Fleetwood Mac album around it.

2) If Mick had not wanted a double album, he should not have agreed to build a Fleetwood Mac album around Gift of Screws.

3) Presuming speculation about the reason Christine was not involved is true, then, yes, Mick's other blunder was losing not just her input -- an undeniable knack -- but also her songs, which would have necessitated . . . a double CD.

I believe she was and we have Mick's unfailing greed to thank for her not participating.What could have been the band's finest album since Tusk was not to be thanks to that quality of his .

By accepting Gift of Screws as the foundation for a Fleetwood Mac album but reneging on the terms, Stevie and Mick betrayed Lindsey's vision and themselves -- but they did not destroy the art. It's still their finest album since Tusk -- because of the degree to which Lindsey was permitted to sustain his vision and to find the common voice, the call and response, in Stevie's songs. What's scary is how much greater -- and more successful and more impactful -- it could have been (with or without Christine). All things that, ultimately, would have served both Stevie's and Mick's interests. In the SYW doc, Lindsey keeps reminding everyone that their success (in all definitions of the word) depends on the band sticking together. That's what bands do. That's what band means. He was betrayed and, caught in a Catch-22, was forced to compromise his vision -- the stated (and audibly presented via GOS) aspirations the band had agreed to participate in -- that he thought they shared.

Consequently, we have a beautiful yet truncated work -- Say You Will -- that spawned two more hybrids (Under the Skin and Gift of Screws).

[Musicman408]

Alright, I'll be short and sweet with this (assuming its true).

I don't want this to be a farewell tour, bottom line. I want to see Stevie/The Mac as many times as I can, since I am a new fan (2003) and missed out on the glory days.

I don't get the whole Sheryl thing. I don't hate her as a musician or anything, but not opening act for the Mac for SYW was amazing. I wouldn't have had it any other way.

I don't understand Stevie's anti Lindsey attitude. You know, you listen to interviews and she's always like "I love being in a band. I didn't want to go solo because I wanted to be in a band." Well Rock Momma, you are in an amazing R and R band, so why would you want to change that. I would die to be there.

I'm sure I'm leaving something out, but I do hope that they tour again, and since I will be away in college, perhaps I could go by myself, increasing my chances of getting front row seats......

Much Love,
Ethan

Oh, one thing I forgot. They need to hire me to play Christine's keyboard parts if she decides not to come back...... I mean, obviously....Right?:laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Is there any evidence that Christine was willing to participate on the album? I've seen it discussed here and it is the generally accepted version but I don't recall reading any direct quotes from the lady herself or did I miss them?

Gail

I read none by her as well. Maybe some of the In the Meantime interviews discussed it, but I do not recall that. I do recall La Nicks, Mick, and (I think) LB) discussing her willingness to participate but not go on the road, which was the problem. I understand the band's logic and essentially agree. Then, I hear Steal Your Heart Away and realize logic aside, it was a mistake because that song is pure Rumours era Mac and it is delightful in part because of CM's voice.

In the end, I say if La Nicks is resigned never to having a hit single again due to the reasons she has cited (kids lying on the floor smoking dope waiting for the next FM record :) ) -- then why not let CM record -- what do they in reality have to lose compared to the potential gain.

But, maybe now CM would not record with them. After all, that was over seven years ago and she officially left in 97.

[Gailh]

I read none by her as well. Maybe some of the In the Meantime interviews discussed it, but I do not recall that. I do recall La Nicks, Mick, and (I think) LB) discussing her willingness to participate but not go on the road, which was the problem. I understand the band's logic and essentially agree. Then, I hear Steal Your Heart Away and realize logic aside, it was a mistake because that song is pure Rumours era Mac and it is delightful in part because of CM's voice.

In the end, I say if La Nicks is resigned never to having a hit single again due to the reasons she has cited (kids lying on the floor smoking dope waiting for the next FM record :) ) -- then why not let CM record -- what do they in reality have to lose compared to the potential gain.

But, maybe now CM would not record with them. After all, that was over seven years ago and she officially left in 97.

I seem to remember John saying something to effect that if she wasn't willing to "work" the album i.e. tour then there was no point in her recording. It seemed to me that on the last tour they "worked" Rumours more than SYW but hey that's just my opinion.

I don't know that Christine would even be willing to record with them again. It's been 4 years since ITM so perhaps she's had enough of recording as well as touring. I think it's very simple though. If she does want to record with them again she tells Mick exactly what it would take and Mick says "yes Chris"

I have a feeling that she's done with it all now. I do hope I'm wrong but that's my opinion.

Gail

[strandinthewind]

. . . I have a feeling that she's done with it all now. I do hope I'm wrong but that's my opinion . . . .

I do hope she would too. But, she is in her mid 60's and "the call of the wild" likely is not that alluring to her anymore.

[David]

Oh, one thing I forgot. They need to hire me to play Christine's keyboard parts if she decides not to come back...... I mean, obviously....Right?:laugh:No. It's not obvious at all. You said a long time ago that you'd post some audio of your keyboard work on Fleetwood Mac songs, but you never did, as far as I know.

[vivfox]

No. It's not obvious at all. You said a long time ago that you'd post some audio of your keyboard work on Fleetwood Mac songs, but you never did, as far as I know.
But they might want to consider Liam. He's a very talented piano player, he looks like a young Lindsey Buckingham and probably can duplicate both Stevie and Christines piano playing.

[chiliD]

I seem to remember John saying something to effect that if she wasn't willing to "work" the album i.e. tour then there was no point in her recording. It seemed to me that on the last tour they "worked" Rumours more than SYW but hey that's just my opinion.

They've "worked" Rumours more than any of their subsequent albums since 1977, that they did it again in 2003 comes as a surprise?

And, that is, IMHO, what has damaged their reputation as much as having two of the main songwriters attempting simultaneous solo careers. Hence my feeling that Fleetwood Mac just should've called it a day on September 2, 1980 (the day after the Tusk tour ended).

[Gailh]

They've "worked" Rumours more than any of their subsequent albums since 1977, that they did it again in 2003 comes as a surprise?


No, no surprise just disappointment.

Gail

[strandinthewind]

No, no surprise just disappointment.

Gail

I tend to disagree. I think SYW had many non-rumours moments on it. From nicksfix.com:

Fleetwood Mac 2003-2004

130 shows from May 7, 2003 to September 14, 2004

The Chain
Dreams Peacekeeper
Eyes of the World
Say You Will
Never Going Back Again
Rhiannon
Gypsy
Come
Running Through the Garden
Big Love
Landslide
Say Goodbye
What's the World Coming To
Destiny Rules
Beautiful Child
Gold Dust Woman
I'm So Afraid
Silver Springs (arguable)
Tusk
Stand Back
Go Your Own Way
World Turning
Don't Stop
Goodbye Baby

*Later shows added Second Hand News and dropped Destiny Rules and Running through the Garden The set list may vary a little through the tour.

So - they played other stuff too and 7/24 from Rumours, though SS was dropped toward the end of the third leg.

Again, I would like to see them haul out otehr hits. But, such is life.

[gldstwmn]

The synapses don't fire like they used to :eek:

I know. :laugh:

[Gailh]

I tend to disagree. I think SYW had many non-rumours moments on it. From nicksfix.com:

Fleetwood Mac 2003-2004

130 shows from May 7, 2003 to September 14, 2004

The Chain
Dreams Peacekeeper
Eyes of the World
Say You Will
Never Going Back Again
Rhiannon
Gypsy
Come
Running Through the Garden
Big Love
Landslide
Say Goodbye
What's the World Coming To
Destiny Rules
Beautiful Child
Gold Dust Woman
I'm So Afraid
Silver Springs (arguable)
Tusk
Stand Back
Go Your Own Way
World Turning
Don't Stop
Goodbye Baby

*Later shows added Second Hand News and dropped Destiny Rules and Running through the Garden The set list may vary a little through the tour.

So - they played other stuff too and 7/24 from Rumours, though SS was dropped toward the end of the third leg.

Again, I would like to see them haul out otehr hits. But, such is life.

I think by the time I saw them in London they'd dropped Destiny Rules and Running Through the Garden so I made it 8 from Rumours and 6 from SYW

Gail

[michelej1]

I think by the time I saw them in London they'd dropped Destiny Rules and Running Through the Garden so I made it 8 from Rumours and 6 from SYW

Gail


You'll still have to attend their next London show. Just in case.

Michele

[Gailh]

You'll still have to attend their next London show. Just in case.

Michele

Well I would if I thought there'd be a new set list or someone could guarantee that Ms McVie would be there. I'd get myself to Wembley or Twickingham :laugh: or as we Brits prefer to call it Twickenham.

I just can't see myself coughing up £100 ($200) for a ticket without one or preferably both of the above.

Gail

[michelej1]

Well I would if I thought there'd be a new set list or someone could guarantee that Ms McVie would be there. I'd get myself to Wembley or Twickingham :laugh: or as we Brits prefer to call it Twickenham.

I just can't see myself coughing up £100 ($200) for a ticket without one or preferably both of the above.

Gail

The thing is, the rumours will swirl about Christine like they did last time, so I bet you'll feel obliged to go, because if you didn't and she showed up, then you'd regret it forever! Of course, if you spend $200 and she doesn't show up, you'll regret that forever too:p.

Michele

[BTFLCHLD]

Here's an idea: a triple CD!

1 = Lindsey
2 = Stevie
3 = Fleetwood Mac

:]

[CADreaming]

Here's an idea: a triple CD!

1 = Lindsey
2 = Stevie
3 = Fleetwood Mac

:]

Never work...it's too great of an idea with too much compromise. ;)

[Gailh]

The thing is, the rumours will swirl about Christine like they did last time, so I bet you'll feel obliged to go, because if you didn't and she showed up, then you'd regret it forever! Of course, if you spend $200 and she doesn't show up, you'll regret that forever too:p.

Michele

I got caught out last time like that. Next time I want an official announcement from the band or Christine's management

Gail

[JohnL]

Oh, Lord...it wasn't LB that ruined Silver Girl!! :laugh: That one could have stayed in the vault...

I enjoy Silver Girl...and from what I remember of it from Destiny Rules, the demo was much better than the finished product. He took out the flute, the vocals were different. I personally think he ruined Silver Girl, Say You Will, and Smile At You.

[Tango]

I enjoy Silver Girl...and from what I remember of it from Destiny Rules, the demo was much better than the finished product. He took out the flute, the vocals were different. I personally think he ruined Silver Girl, Say You Will, and Smile At You.

I definitely agree on "Smile At You." It was gutted of all anger!

[Chrislit18]

Oddly enough I like both versions of SAY...

I really don't think LB ruined any song on SYW...I mean if Stevie didn't like the song after he did his magic with it, why would she allow it to be released...especially with HER name on it??

Silver Girl isn't THAT horrible....I think Illume is her worst song on SYW, and then the title track. SG isn't just Thrown Down or RTTG status.

Thats JMO

[gldstwmn]

I enjoy Silver Girl...and from what I remember of it from Destiny Rules, the demo was much better than the finished product. He took out the flute, the vocals were different. I personally think he ruined Silver Girl, Say You Will, and Smile At You.

Agreed. Although Chris Lord Alge's cold remix of Say You Will is a favorite of mine. The song has so much more life to it.

[Melack]

This is great news!

At least for me as very new Fleetwood Mac fan, one that missed the glory days of my favourite band ever :(

But if they would tour in Europe and come to Scandinavia (I'm from Sweden) I would drop dead out of happiness and that's what I would call a once in a lifetime chance.

Still have no idea who I would go with as none of my friends or family loves Fleetwood Mac as much as I do. But hell that is a later problem.

Right now I'm just glad these Rumours are floating around :)

I wonder how many new songs is considered for the new album? I mean the usual amount of new songs on albums like this are two, but I hope we're in for more.