Butter Cookie

[David]

BUTTER COOKIE (not COKIE).

Apparently, it was hashed around (no pun intended, really) up there in Sausalito in 1976, but the whole thing (or what we have of it) reminds me for some reason of late '60s rock bands in the Midlands region of England, & Christine's singing is more Sandy Dennyish than ever. (And why didn't the David Lees crew give us the whole thing on the reissue? :mad: )

And yet, there's something kind of California hippie about the sound of it, too.

Such a short clip, but it creates such a vivid mood, & reminds you of so many things -- it recalls regions & eras & an unpinpointable zeitgeist. I'm sorry that it didn't make the cut on the album, but one wonders what it would have sounded like ultimately if the band & the engineers had spent a year dabbling with it. This way, it has a freshness & a naivete, as if it were cobbled together during a long, languid Marin County afternoon, the waning sunlight slicing at an angle across the lapping waters of the bay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aml2yiR21bE&feature=related

[michelej1]

I just listen to the chords and try to hear The Chain.

I love Kiss and Run, the way Christine is kind of orchestrating and she tells them to sing it and they immediately start in. It would be wonderful to see a whole afternoon of them in the studio in those days.


Michele

[gretchen]

BUTTER COOKIE (not COKIE).

Apparently, it was hashed around (no pun intended, really) up there in Sausalito in 1976, but the whole thing (or what we have of it) reminds me for some reason of late '60s rock bands in the Midlands region of England, & Christine's singing is more Sandy Dennyish than ever. (And why didn't the David Lees crew give us the whole thing on the reissue? :mad: )

And yet, there's something kind of California hippie about the sound of it, too.

Such a short clip, but it creates such a vivid mood, & reminds you of so many things -- it recalls regions & eras & an unpinpointable zeitgeist. I'm sorry that it didn't make the cut on the album, but one wonders what it would have sounded like ultimately if the band & the engineers had spent a year dabbling with it. This way, it has a freshness & a naivete, as if it were cobbled together during a long, languid Marin County afternoon, the waning sunlight slicing at an angle across the lapping waters of the bay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aml2yiR21bE&feature=related

I loved hearing that! Thanks for posting David! :thumbsup:

[David]

I just listen to the chords and try to hear The Chain.The chords you seek aren't there. You have the wrong song.

I love Kiss and Run, the way Christine is kind of orchestrating and she tells them to sing it and they immediately start in. It would be wonderful to see a whole afternoon of them in the studio in those days.Yeah, Lees & Co. gave us way too much of FOR DUSTER, a rather dull blues jam with anonymous guests, but only brief pieces of KISS & RUN and BUTTER COOKIE. Bad judgment. I'd have vastly preferred the more song-oriented screw-around material from the various sessions, like the latter two or Stevie's UNIVERSE song.

[aleuzzi]

The chords you seek aren't there. You have the wrong song.

Actually, I too had heard/read somewhere that Butter Cookie/Keep Me There was the undersong for The Chain. Christine gave Lindsey what she had and they reconstructed it measure by measure into the instrumental backdrop of The Chain. Stevie then supplied the words and melody...

If not Butter Cookie, what song was the original Chain?

[michelej1]

The chords you seek aren't there. You have the wrong song.


So, I know we've talked about it before, but there are different Keep Me Theres and one isn't an evolution of the other? Did the Butter Cookie chords progress into what became The Chain or are they completely unreleated?

Michele

[WildHeart69]

I am almost positive that I read that "Butter Cookie" is related to "The Chain" because I can still remember people joking that the original words were "I can still hear you sayin you would never eat the Butter Cookie"... that always stuck with me! ha!

[David]

So, I know we've talked about it before, but there are different Keep Me Theres and one isn't an evolution of the other? Did the Butter Cookie chords progress into what became The Chain or are they completely unreleated?There's a pretty good discussion of this somewhere in the Ledge archives. Help me find?

There are several (well, basically two) demoish thingies that both seem to have the name KEEP ME THERE: the thingie on the RUMOURS reissue with the name BUTTER COOKIE (KEEP ME THERE) as well as another thingie that came via bootleg CD from the Loftus & Nephew (James) corps (MISSING LINKS & RUMOURS: THE OTHER SIDE), & that latter thingie was also named KEEP ME THERE (years before the reissue).

It's the latter thingie (KEEP ME THERE from MISSING LINKS & RUMOURS: THE OTHER SIDE) that not only is structurally & harmonically related to THE CHAIN but also contains some of the actual tracking that ultimately got left on THE CHAIN (including some or all of the B3, the Rhodes, & the percussion & therefore possibly the bass).

But the BUTTER COOKIE thingie has no musical relationship to THE CHAIN. As to its title, I posit the possibility that Lees & Co. pulled the title from the wrong label or tape box or otherwise got it screwed up.

The evolution of THE CHAIN is a big mess, as everyone knows, but I think it's an even bigger mess than that. That's why I think it's goofball to take any of the band's (or even Ken's) simplistic pronouncements about it (without direct reference to audio files & written records) as completely accurate -- especially at this late date. It's also goofball to swallow Stevie's simplistic pronouncements (also made years after the fact) about who "wrote" it ("I wrote THE CHAIN") as completely accurate. What Stevie is referring to & what we think she may be referring to are probably different things. It would be like a discussion about who wrote "the Bible" -- which Bible? which iteration? which translation? from which era? which language?

If you listen to the Loftus KEEP ME THERE, you clearly hear the enormous similarities with THE CHAIN as it exists on RUMOURS (as I said earlier, you hear even some of the same tracks). The question remains, Where should it be placed on the CHAIN timeline? Does it predate or follow Stevie's alleged contribution of the "chain" concept to the song's lyrics, or even the group decision to take the song that way? OR -- is it something Chris & bandmates were working on A) under a different title (perhaps KEEP ME THERE) or B) with a different purpose in mind (different track, different album)?

[michelej1]

There's a pretty good discussion of this somewhere in the Ledge archives. Help me find?


Well, there are a million of them. You know how it goes.

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=8135

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=12005


Now, just to show how goofy some people can get, one poster said:

The members of the band -- mostly Chris & Lindsey -- have always referred to "Keep Me There" as the kernel of "The Chain." So it stands to reason that the unreleased track we have from the "Rumours: The Other Side" bootleg (Track 10), which is also the one used on the DVD-A that Ken Caillat put together, is the *real* "Keep Me There" because it's the one that obviously is "The Chain" -- that's apparent to any musician & even to most anyone who isn't.

"Butter Cookie" on the reissue has nothing to do with "The Chain." Some sort of procedural or logistical error is probably at the root of the use of "Keep Me There" in parens after "Butter Cookie."

The only other explanation I can think of is that Chris threw the "Keep Me There" title around on a couple of songs that she had brewing, so maybe there's an old reel or studio log that McLees saw that had "Butter Cookie" listed as "Keep Me There," too. Studio logs & track sheets also often contain errors: for example, the instrumental track sheet on the DVD-A for "The Chain" lists no Hammond organ, which is a definite mistake.

[David]

Ah, there we go. I remember that old thread. I think the whole fog is clearing on this topic.

You know what would be a really easy way to clear the fog? Post both sound files. I think anyone who hears them both would hear which one is the skeleton & tendon of THE CHAIN & which one is a completely different song.

Can we do that?

Of course, we'd still be left with the confusion over the titles. Clearing up that fog would require some recovery of decent recordkeeping from Sausalito or sitting down with Chris McVie & really pressing her to recall the name of the item on the reissue.

[petep9000]

BUTTER COOKIE (not COKIE).

Such a short clip, but it creates such a vivid mood, & reminds you of so many things -- it recalls regions & eras & an unpinpointable zeitgeist.

David I couldn't agree with you more. When I heard this, I thought 'California'. Something to do with California, and the 1976 1977-ish vibe, maybe sunset on some beach somewhere. Not sure exactly, but I feel it.
Same way I 'feel' something when I see the Linda Ronstadt album cover for 'Hasten Down The Wind'. I think the same thing...California, sunset, parties, love affairs, pina colodas. Too bad I was only 6 years old in 1976. I probably would have enjoyed it.

Was 'Butter Cookie' a working title?

[aleuzzi]

It's the latter thingie (KEEP ME THERE from MISSING LINKS & RUMOURS: THE OTHER SIDE) that not only is structurally & harmonically related to THE CHAIN but also contains some of the actual tracking that ultimately got left on THE CHAIN (including some or all of the B3, the Rhodes, & the percussion & therefore possibly the bass).

Does anyone have an MP3 of this to share? It'd be fascinating to hear it.

[Karlie]

I love this song so much. I wish there were a full version of it available.

[WildHeart69]

Does anyone have an MP3 of this to share? It'd be fascinating to hear it.

I have the Keep Me There version that sounds like the skeleton for the Rumours The Chain on my other computer... I can post it tomorrow if it doesnt get posted in the meantime.

[David]

Does anyone have an MP3 of this to share? It'd be fascinating to hear it.I uploaded the file here -- from the 1998 bootleg CD-R RUMOURS: THE OTHER SIDE:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/inbele

You're musically fluent, Tony, so you'll definitely hear THE CHAIN all over this. After you listen to this, listen to BUTTER COOKIE on the reissue. What the reissue guys call BUTTER COOKIE has no relation to THE CHAIN.

[Gailh]

I uploaded the file here -- from the 1998 bootleg CD-R RUMOURS: THE OTHER SIDE:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/inbele

You're musically fluent, Tony, so you'll definitely hear THE CHAIN all over this. After you listen to this, listen to BUTTER COOKIE on the reissue. What the reissue guys call BUTTER COOKIE has no relation to THE CHAIN.

I hear it now!

Especially the "if you don't love me now you will never love me again" and John's solo

They must have kept Lindsey's solo for the finished article.

thanks!

Gail

[aleuzzi]

Same Here! This is excellent. Wow, this should definitely have gone on the reissue.

In the beginning those electronic piano chords sounds very similar to Butter Cookie, too.

[nicepace]

Fabulous! Gave me goosebumps listening to this. Like looking at a pencil sketch of the Mona Lisa.

[Betsy]

I uploaded the file here -- from the 1998 bootleg CD-R RUMOURS: THE OTHER SIDE:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/inbele


T H A N K YOU DAVID!

[bucklind17]

I'd love to know why this is called Butter Cookie. Was Chris just eating a box of Walker's will writing one night? ;)

[michelej1]

Can you imagine if she had some demo lyrics to it which centered around a butter cookie?

Michele

[Karlie]

Can any of you tell me the chords for Butter Cookie? I'm really bad at figuring these things out for myself.

[Gailh]

I'd love to know why this is called Butter Cookie. Was Chris just eating a box of Walker's will writing one night? ;)

No it's because Chocolate Hobnobs hadn't been invented then :laugh: :laugh:

Gail

[macfan 57]

No it's because Chocolate Hobnobs hadn't been invented then :laugh: :laugh:

Gail

You just had to get those Hobnobs in there.;):laugh:

[Gailh]

You just had to get those Hobnobs in there.;):laugh:

I see it as my mission in life to work Chocolate Hobnobs into as many posts as I can :laugh:

Gail