Stevie Nicks Says Issues With Lindsey Buckingham Threaten Her Involvement With FM

[TrueFaith77]

http://www.kbsradio.ca/news/music/87/697881

Stevie Nicks Says Issues With Lindsey Buckingham Threaten Her Involvement With Fleetwood Mac
By: Howie Edelson

Stevie Nicks says that ongoing problems with bandmate and one-time boyfriend Lindsey Buckingham may signal the end for her in Fleetwood Mac.

Nicks, who'll be hitting the road next week for a string of spring dates, told Q magazine that the band's tentative tour for next year is up in their air due to personality conflicts, revealing, "Lindsey knows that I did not have a great time during (2003's) Say You Will (album and tour)... He was not being very nice or friendly to me and at my old age I'm like 'Please! I can't do it.'I have a great, great, (solo) band... The only reason for me to do it is for my heart."

She went on to say, "I've always loved being in Fleetwood Mac and I'm never going to be the one to squash it... So if Lindsey Buckingham wants to be the Lindsey Buckingham that he was a long time ago -- and be happy with me and enjoy what I do, and enjoy my celebrity and just appreciate the marvelous gift of being in this elite band -- then I will do it again. I will also walk away so fast that the palm tree tops will fall on his head."

Although Lindsey Buckingham admits that there were tensions during Fleetwood Mac's 2003 tour, he says that the band has yet reached the end of its run together: "We are all friends, I would say quite honesty Fleetwood Mac is still a work in progress. There are pieces of baggage probably that still remain that are in the process of being worked through. I mean, we consider ourselves a band that is not broken up, but we don't see each other a lot, so the distance sort of keeps us from working through things at a quicker pace. But no, I think there are a few chapters left to go."

Last month Sheryl Crow told the press that she would be joining Fleetwood Mac on their 2009 tour. Buckingham says that although there are tentative plans for Fleetwood Mac to regroup next year, and that Crow has been considered to perform with the band, he and the rest of Fleetwood Mac were surprised that Crow would make any type of announcement this early.

Out now is Buckingham's solo CD/DVD Live At The Bass Performance Hall. The disc also features a 45 minute documentary called Not Too Late, which includes behind the scenes footage from the recording of his 2006 album Under The Skin.

Stevie Nicks kicks off her 12-city tour on April 18th in Reading, Pennsylvania.

[gldstwmn]

READ: "Either Sheryl joins Fleetwood Mac or I am out of there."

[Miss Vicky]

WTF does "enjoy my celebrity" even mean???

[David]

She went on to say, "I've always loved being in Fleetwood Mac and I'm never going to be the one to squash it..."She says, after having threatened several times to walk if the others aren't nicer to her ... :rolleyes:

So if Lindsey Buckingham wants to be the Lindsey Buckingham that he was a long time ago ... Back around, say, 1980? :rolleyes:

Has Stevie noticed that she's the only one in the band who ever publicly says anything snippy about the others any more? The others seem to have grown up or moved on emotionally (or in some cases physically), but Stevie is still spinning romance-novel melodrama out of real people's real lives. And she doesn't even get any good songs out of it anymore! :cool:

(Many of them have children & grandchildren by this point, too -- has she considered that before voicing her complaints to the press of tyranny & rotten treatment?)

I consider that payback to the others for their wanting to keep the band going just for big money. John, Mick & Lindsey are reaping what they have sown. Either that, or they don't seem to mind being raked over the coals repeatedly in the newspapers by their lead singer. They're willing to continue whoring it.

[dnightshade]

She's been saying this sort of thing (and making similar threats) for what, like 25 years now. It's tired. Aren't they a bit old to be rehashing the same old Love-Em-Hate-Em shizz? We all know the story and the tension, yada yada. IMO, the Mac was done when Christine bolted.

[shackin'up]

WTF does "enjoy my celebrity" even mean???

That's the key point. SHE doesn't want to be in a FM with more space for LB. She wants to be the main focus, and at this point it is simple: lindsey has more to offer to the band: better songs, more energy and more maturity.

Leave girl, leave.

[Betsy]

Thanks TrueFaith77 for finding and posting the article.

Nicks, who'll be hitting the road next week for a string of spring dates, told Q magazine that the band's tentative tour for next year is up in their air due to personality conflicts, revealing, "Lindsey knows that I did not have a great time during (2003's) Say You Will (album and tour)... He was not being very nice or friendly to me and at my old age I'm like 'Please! I can't do it.'I have a great, great, (solo) band... The only reason for me to do it is for my heart."

First - I would love to know what was said inbetween the elipses.

Second - I read in a book (I don't remember which one), that Stevie and Lindsey snipe at each other in the press. That's how they communicate and they piss each other off in the process. It's *the dance* they do.

[trackaghost]

I took "enjoy my celebrity" to mean, not be jealous of it.

Personally I don't think Stevie wants to go back to Fleetwood Mac and she's just making excuses for it.

[trackaghost]

Thanks TrueFaith77 for finding and posting the article.

Nicks, who'll be hitting the road next week for a string of spring dates, told Q magazine that the band's tentative tour for next year is up in their air due to personality conflicts, revealing, "Lindsey knows that I did not have a great time during (2003's) Say You Will (album and tour)... He was not being very nice or friendly to me and at my old age I'm like 'Please! I can't do it.'I have a great, great, (solo) band... The only reason for me to do it is for my heart."

First - I would love to know what was said inbetween the elipses.



And will there be another Fleetwood Mac record?
I think Fleetwood Mac is thinking about working next year and we'll see how that goes. Lindsey knows that I did not have a great time during Say You Will. Because he was just not being very nice or friendly to me. And at my old age I'm like, "Please! I can't do it". Why should I? I have a great, great band. I just did a show two nights ago that got such a flamingly fantastic review. So the only reason for me to do this is for my heart. I 've always loved being in Fleetwood Mac and I'm never going to be the one to squash it if I think there is this much hope. So if Lindsey Buckingham wants to be the Lindsey Buckingham that he was a long time ago - and be happy with me and enjoy what I do, and enjoy my celebrity and just appreciate the marvellous gift of being in this elite band - then I will do it again. I will also walk away so fast that the palm tree tops will fall on his head.

It's in the Q magazine article I posted here:

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=35622

[aleuzzi]

As narcissistic and self serving as Stevie's comments may seem, I understand her position very well. She can walk if things don't go the way she wants them to. And I'm sure working with Lindsey is a chore for her.

I also think the reason she so often speaks negatively against him and sometimes Mick in the press is that she herself has limited power within the band. As an undervalued voice, she has most likely felt like the rebel child trying to buck her oppressive parents.

Mac with just the male trio could be very interesting indeed. But most likely a compromise will be hammered out because, let's face it, without Stevie, the project will be much smaller scale and less lucrative--sure to make Mick nervous.

[The Catdancer]

That's the key point. SHE doesn't want to be in a FM with more space for LB. She wants to be the main focus, and at this point it is simple: lindsey has more to offer to the band: better songs, more energy and more maturity.

Leave girl, leave.

I totally agree with that. If she's not happy with Fleetwood Mac she should walk.

[vivfox]

Rumours=ticket salesPERIOD

[GarboSpeaks!]

I love, love, love Stevie to death, but this LB bashing is getting OLD! I've always been "about" her when it came to FM, but say the last 10 years, realized it's a band, and every member has a major contribution. Hearing this about LB is just mean.
Every "job" has it's BS to deal with, but for crap sake, they are singers. Can't you all just get along, call it a day and cash in on ANOTHER Rumours revival? When FM hits the road, and I don't mean if, cause I am 100% that they will do this, it's gonna be Mick that plays mediator, and it'll be a smashing success and then in 2010 when Stevie does another interview to promote a "same Ol" tour (that I can bash all I want but will prolly be at multiple shows cause I'm a dumbass) she'll start in with how the 2009 tour was unpleasant, and blah, blah blah.
Seriously, I just can't figure why she is being so negative. I used to figure it was the journalists twisting her words around and mis-quoting to generate interest, but now I'm gonna just have to wake up and realize Stevie can be not so nice. :distress:

[petep9000]

Stevie knows she holds the cards for a FM tour to be a huge success. Even if a Mick, John and Lindsey band emerged- I don't think it would garner anywhere near the attention that it would had Stevie been involved. People can say that it would. But it wouldn't.

And I would hate to see FM on a big oldies bill with, say, Boston (with a new singer), Journey (with a new singer) and The Cars (with a new singer).

Shades of the Bekka and Billy era!

[shackin'up]

Stevie knows she holds the cards for a FM tour to be a huge success. Even if a Mick, John and Lindsey band emerged- I don't think it would garner anywhere near the attention that it would had Stevie been involved.

Ofcourse it wouldn't fill any arena. No question. But it would be a show ten times more intense and better. And I don't care if I'm watching a great show with 500 people. It's always better than watching a lackluster one with 10.000 others. She doesn't WANT FM anymore.

[Johnny Stew]

That's the key point. SHE doesn't want to be in a FM with more space for LB. She wants to be the main focus, and at this point it is simple: lindsey has more to offer to the band: better songs, more energy and more maturity.

Leave girl, leave.

If it really were a matter of her having problems with not being the main focus, wouldn't that have been more of an issue for her when she was one-third of the frontline, as opposed to one-half of it? Plus, she happily shares a stage with Tom Petty, Chris Isaak, Don Henley and Vanessa Carlton. So ego wouldn't seem to be the root of it.

It's not a sin to want someone to treat you with respect -- not just begrudging respect, but genuine respect -- and to want them to take your opinions and feelings seriously. It's also not a sin to voice that desire.

I agree with you though -- she should leave. As much as I've always loved Fleetwood Mac, I'd much rather have a new solo album from Stevie.

[The Catdancer]

Ofcourse it wouldn't fill any arena. No question. But it would be a show ten times more intense and better. And I don't care if I'm watching a great show with 500 people. It's always better than watching a lackluster one with 10.000 others. She doesn't WANT FM anymore.

I agree with you again. I don't think she wants to be in FM anymore which is her right. But if she doesn't she should just pack up and leave instead of bashing Lindsey over the head with palm tree tops.

[strandinthewind]

If it really were a matter of her having problems with not being the main focus, wouldn't that have been more of an issue for her when she was one-third of the frontline, as opposed to one-half of it? Plus, she happily shares a stage with Tom Petty, Chris Isaak, Don Henley and Vanessa Carlton. So ego wouldn't seem to be the root of it.

It's not a sin to want someone to treat you with respect -- not just begrudging respect, but genuine respect -- and to want them to take your opinions and feelings seriously. It's also not a sin to voice that desire.

I agree with you though -- she should leave. As much as I've always loved Fleetwood Mac, I'd much rather have a new solo album from Stevie.

Waste of breathe (beautiful though it is) -- no one here will admit that LB might have been a pri*k to her - his history of being polite to women is so clean. And, even if she is/was a total c*nt beloved to the unwashed masses, to everyone in the history of art (defined only by LB and devil may care about CM (the more talented of the three)) -- it does not matter because La Nicks, despite like 50 million records and countless sold out shows - is a talentless cu*t who is not a star much less the one whom LB salivates to ride on the coat tails of to fame :rolleyes: After all, his history of caring for art above FM is so pristine :rolleyes:

[Moz]

I thought she'd be over all this ~drama~ by now. :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

I thought she'd be over all this ~drama~ by now. :shrug:

I think that she really cares about FM and is trying to make it work. Is it so far above the realm of imagination that LB is a pr*ck to her and she is trying to solve that in a genuine effort to make FM work? Hasn't her commitment to FM showed that? Sadly, few (not really you) can see or admit that. It's all about LB is the saint.

[Miss Vicky]

I don't think that anyone here is trying to say that Buckingham is a saint. But Nicks' quotes in this article really make her come off as a spoiled child who is throwing a tantrum because she doesn't always get her way (which is, of course, a state of being that Buckingham is no stranger to - see Destiny Rules DVD).

I also think that chiffonheads have a tendency to put Stevie so high on a pedestal that she could not possibly have any faults and could not possibly be a pain in the ass to deal with herself. She ****s rainbows, right?

Stevie's fans are just as bad as Buckingham's fans or anyone else's so I wouldn't be pointing fingers.

[Nico]

I think that she really cares about FM and is trying to make it work. Is it so far above the realm of imagination that LB is a pr*ck to her and she is trying to solve that in a genuine effort to make FM work? Hasn't her commitment to FM showed that? Sadly, few (not really you) can see or admit that. It's all about LB is the saint.

I haven't really read one person here say that Lindsey is a saint. Even the biggest Lindsey supporters can probably admit that he has been/still is somewhat of an arrogant jerk. I believe he has mellowed a lot over the years, but he still has it in him. What I have said about Stevie is simply this: she should probably, after all these years, just drop the public LB bashing. It's not as relevant as it once was and, frankly, makes her look like a whiny little b*&ch.

It almost seems like they are incapable of acting mature enough for him to treat her nicer and her to stop making public declarations of his undying assholeness towards her. It makes me sad, as she's turning 60 this year and he's got three kids who are supposed to be looking at him as a role model.

Really, I agree with what others have said. If Stevie isn't happy in FM, then she should just forget it. I would prefer to just have Lindsey do his solo stuff, but that's purely selfish. I love Fleetwood Mac and I guess all this drama is necessary, though I do feel some of it is incredibly stupid at the same time.

[michelej1]

I haven't really read one person here say that Lindsey is a saint.

Yes, I would say that my opinion has nothing to do with thinking Lindsey is a saint. It has a lot to do with thinking that Stevie bends the truth like a soft pretzel. I don't believe her, not because of Lindsey's pristine character, but because of her own shifting stories.

I believe LB can be a jerk. As the song goes: I know you can. I've seen you do it.

Still, judging from Stevie's own comments and actions, there is no way I think she was mistreated during the SYW process. Why? Because of her own statements throughout the SYW recording and tour. She's mad at him now, for whatever reason. Maybe he deserves her ire and maybe he doesn't. But her anger today has little to do with what happened 4 years ago, based on what she was saying at the time. So, she's lying now, or she was lying then. But either way she's lying at some point.

When SYW first started she was finishing up TISL and Lindsey praised the album and said it was the best she'd ever done. She talked about how thrilled she was about that.

Then, for SYW, she gave him her songs to work on and she was very proud to say how he complimented her on them, said he was glad to get them and called her from his car to tell her he was listening to them and really liked them.

Then, she told the story about him listening to Illume, touching her knee and asking how she did it with tears in his eyes, many times.

Then, she said that he handled her in a much gentler fashion while they recorded SYW than he ever had in the past.

After the recording process was over, she said it was hard, but described how they were able to get through it in a mature and respectful fashion, with no one bullying her in the least:

"I don't think it's easier now. I think that it's just as hard to make a record now as it was to make record in 1976. We're all very passionate about our beliefs and we're all very stubborn and we're all a little immovable in certain places, and this last year was very difficult in many ways. But I feel this is what makes a great record. If we had walked into the Bel Air house every day and said, 'Oh, that's great, that's terrific, sure, whatever you want,' this record would not have been that studio record that we stared out wanting to make. We wanted this to be a great record, we didn't want this just to be a record. So we all stood our ground every single day, on many, many things. And we got it together. Linke in a relationship, we worked it out. And we're still standing at the end of the record, which is what we were all hoping from the beginning: that we would all come out of this with something that we were proud of and that we're all still very close to one another and all still love one another. and we're a band. Above all, we're a band."

Then, on tour she talked about how much fun they were having. And it wasn't Lindsey or the writer who first talked about it being fun. It was STEVIE: "There's a sweentess to it. Lindsey and I are really enjoying it." She casts a sideways glance. "Aren't we?

"Yes," he reassures her. "We are."

Then she told Mojo:

“Now I just adore him,” says Nicks, with ravishing candour. “He is my love. My first love and my love for all time. But we can’t ever be together. He has a lovely wife, Kristen, who I really like, and they are expecting their third child. The way he is with his children just knocks me out. I look at him now and just go, Oh, Stevie, you made a mistake!”

She leans forward. “But when we go on-stage together we are able to experience our love affair again - and again and again! For two and a half hours, four times a week...There isn’t really anybody in my life - it wouldn’t be good for me now anyway, I’m always away. But when hard times come over the next 20 or 30 years, when people we love die, he’ll be the first person I’ll call. Knowing that now, I think he has been able to let go of all the nasty things that happened and realise that, like I said to him, Lindsey, you’ll always have me. I’m always a phone call away. So you get it all.”

I mean, it's one thing to put on a stoic face for the reporter, but it's quite another to initiate the fond reflections and gush and gush like she did. While I know she and Lindsey fought on the tour (like in Florida, for instance), there were many warm, effusive moments between them, evidenced by her warm, effusive comments at the time.

So, no. I don't believe she was treated shabbily throughout the SYW process. Today, she's mad at him and he may deserve it, but I don't think she's mad at him for any of the reasons that she's giving to the press.

Furthermore, I don't think anyone questions her right to be mad at him. What I'm questioning is why she has chosen to take her complaints to the media. Can't they argue among themselves? In Mick's book, he described a tantrum in which Stevie threatened to run to Rolling Stone and tell them that she wasn't singing on TITN. Lindsey isn't putting down FM or Stevie in the press today as he has in the past, but 20 years later, it's still business as usual for Stevie.

Stevie has every right to want respect from Lindsey. By the same token, I'm sure Lindsey would like respect too. Her telling the press how much she hated his work on her SYW songs isn't exactly respectful. And I'm not saying she shouldn't hate his work. If she thinks he ruined Smile at You, she has plenty of company, but why tell the magazines?

You can air dirty laundry all you like, it's just bound to smell when you do.

Michele

[Phil]

Stevie's churlishness aside, does anyone remember how Lindsey massacred most of her songs on Say You Will? I believe this may be at the heart of her most recently publicised concerns. Whether others agree with Stevie's stance or not, she was dissatisfied with the arrangements and production Lindsey performed on her songs. Admittedly, she seemed more positive during the original slew of press and interviews in early 2003 but her true thoughts seeped out later on.
Whilst I think Lindsey was genuine in his efforts to realise Stevie's songs to the best of his abilities, she obviously felt as though the original intent of her writing was lost in the transistion to record (an age-old complaint of hers it must be said).
I did actually appreciate much of Say You Will but I found the dense production, particularly on Stevie's songs, to often be cluttered and claustrophobic eg Everybody Finds Out and to some extent, Running Through The Garden (which could have been rescued by a contribution from Christine). In my opinion, Lindsey improved upon Thrown Down (which does conjure up the majestic qualities of Gypsy despite not being nearly as good a song), but elsewhere his vision veered between insensitvity and bastardisation, with the prime example being Smile At You.
At the end of the day, Stevie requires a position of equal footing within the band but as it stands, this respect has not been afforded her way. Clearly she recognises her status as the "drawcard" of the band and so understandably, insists that Lindsey desist with his condescending ways and actually begin acknowledging her talent.

[shackin'up]

Stevie's churlishness aside, does anyone remember how Lindsey massacred most of her songs on Say You Will? I believe this may be at the heart of her most recently publicised concerns. Whether others agree with Stevie's stance or not, she was dissatisfied with the arrangements and production Lindsey performed on her songs. Admittedly, she seemed more positive during the original slew of press and interviews in early 2003 but her true thoughts seeped out later on.
Whilst I think Lindsey was genuine in his efforts to realise Stevie's songs to the best of his abilities, she obviously felt as though the original intent of her writing was lost in the transistion to record (an age-old complaint of hers it must be said).
I did actually appreciate much of Say You Will but I found the dense production, particularly on Stevie's songs, to often be cluttered and claustrophobic eg Everybody Finds Out and to some extent, Running Through The Garden (which could have been rescued by a contribution from Christine). In my opinion, Lindsey improved upon Thrown Down (which does conjure up the majestic qualities of Gypsy despite not being nearly as good a song), but elsewhere his vision veered between insensitvity and bastardisation, with the prime example being Smile At You.
At the end of the day, Stevie requires a position of equal footing within the band but as it stands, this respect has not been afforded her way. Clearly she recognises her status as the "drawcard" of the band and so understandably, insists that Lindsey desist with his condescending ways and actually begin acknowledging her talent.

All good points. Accept the last one. That is a bastardization of the mature point in life this man is now. He can be a pain in the ass for her, I know. But I really think LB worked his ass off to let her shine on those SYW-tracks. If she wants to have more influence on how her songs sound, she just has to be there. Since Mirage that hardly ever happened anymore. She gave it over to him -and maybe there ARE reasons to complain, as your post articulates fairly reasonable- so then you simply have to shut up and take the loss.

No she's just pissed that that album didn't sell and she blames him, not the poor quality of her songwriting. That's the bottomline.

[HejiraNYC]

I think there is a lot to be said about the passage of time and its ability to focus our lens on the past in sharper detail. Indeed, Stevie put on the best spin she could possibly muster up for the SYW promotional blitz. And anyone with two brain cells would have known better than to go to the press and state 'Lindsey f***ed up my songs!' when you are trying to sell the new album. However, at the same time, surely the wounds from the debacle regarding the album size/sequencing (which supposedly almost broke up the band) must have still been fresh on everybody's mind. I think we could pick apart everything that SN said and call her a duplicitous, childish c***, but we should also understand that it must have been incredibly difficult to reconcile her disappointment and resentment with the fact that she loves being in FM and loves having hit records. Plus, she probably realized that they were going to be stuck with each other for the next six months plus on tour, so she was walking on eggshells and doing damage control preemptively. In hindsight this must have been a harrowing experience, so this probably explains why she has been so voluble recently about her bitterness towards that period of time. As much as everybody canonizes St. Lindsey's artistic struggles :rolleyes:, I'm sure Stevie was horrified that she had to put out songs that she felt were not up to snuff.

[shackin'up]

I think there is a lot to be said about the passage of time and its ability to focus our lens on the past in sharper detail. Indeed, Stevie put on the best spin she could possibly muster up for the SYW promotional blitz. And anyone with two brain cells would have known better than to go to the press and state 'Lindsey f***ed up my songs!' when you are trying to sell the new album. However, at the same time, surely the wounds from the debacle regarding the album size/sequencing (which supposedly almost broke up the band) must have still been fresh on everybody's mind. I think we could pick apart everything that SN said and call her a duplicitous, childish c***, but we should also understand that it must have been incredibly difficult to reconcile her disappointment and resentment with the fact that she loves being in FM and loves having hit records. Plus, she probably realized that they were going to be stuck with each other for the next six months plus on tour, so she was walking on eggshells and doing damage control preemptively. In hindsight this must have been a harrowing experience, so this probably explains why she has been so voluble recently about her bitterness towards that period of time. As much as everybody canonizes St. Lindsey's artistic struggles :rolleyes:, I'm sure Stevie was horrified that she had to put out songs that she felt were not up to snuff.

Now, try to empathise in the same way from lindsey's perspective and conclude that Stevie's recent bashings in the press are absolutely horrid and childish. I'm sure he's just laughing about it. And he should.

[shackin'up]

If it really were a matter of her having problems with not being the main focus, wouldn't that have been more of an issue for her when she was one-third of the frontline, as opposed to one-half of it? Plus, she happily shares a stage with Tom Petty, Chris Isaak, Don Henley and Vanessa Carlton. So ego wouldn't seem to be the root of it.

It's not a sin to want someone to treat you with respect -- not just begrudging respect, but genuine respect -- and to want them to take your opinions and feelings seriously. It's also not a sin to voice that desire.

I agree with you though -- she should leave. As much as I've always loved Fleetwood Mac, I'd much rather have a new solo album from Stevie.

It's about the fact that Lindsey's place in the spotlight will be reduced too, Stewie. That's the whole point of her, isn't that totally clear? SHE doesn't like it if HE's stealing the show where SHE should. If he's in a more back-up position she's more happy. It's that simple.

I want another solorecord from her too. So it'll be clear that she's done with good songwriting, like she has been for years.

[HejiraNYC]

All good points. Accept the last one. That is a bastardization of the mature point in life this man is now. He can be a pain in the ass for her, I know. But I really think LB worked his ass off to let her shine on those SYW-tracks. If she wants to have more influence on how her songs sound, she just has to be there. Since Mirage that hardly ever happened anymore. She gave it over to him -and maybe there ARE reasons to complain, as your post articulates fairly reasonable- so then you simply have to shut up and take the loss.

No she's just pissed that that album didn't sell and she blames him, not the poor quality of her songwriting. That's the bottomline.

Chocolate tastes good. Tomatoes taste good. Together... not good. I think Lindsey tried to cover Stevie's tomatoes with chocolate on many of her SYW tracks. Sure, this could partially be due to Stevie's lack of participation at the outset, but it could also be a lack of communication and teamwork that doomed some of her songs. Nobody (except S and L) knows for sure how/why that happened, but I suspect nobody is blameless.

I think the album didn't sell because they streamed the entire album on the internet immediately. Upon first hearing the album in its entirety, my initial impression was that, for whatever reason, he seemed to have left off the best songs from the Gift of Screws sessions, and contributed mostly the strange, unmelodic, long, over-indulgent songs. If anything, Stevie was the one to help salvage the album commercially with the radio hits "SYW" and "Thrown Down." Sure, she had some clunkers on there, but at least they didn't go on for over six minutes a piece! :rolleyes:

As for Lindsey's demeanor, based on what I've seen on the Destiny Rules DVD, I think he came across very condescending. Or... I don't know. I really couldn't figure out half the time whether he was being serious or whether he was just putting on airs, or saying things that his psychiatrist would approve of. He always had a way of taking a simple yes/no or good/bad decision, and just talk a bunch of nonsense around it. And I did think it took a bit of chutzpah to tell Stevie to correct the grammar in her lyrics. No, she is no Bob Dylan (thank Buddah!), but that doesn't mean she deserves to be disrespected like that. Especially on camera. I loved it when Stevie handed his ass to him for saying that.

[Johnny Stew]

Furthermore, I don't think anyone questions her right to be mad at him. What I'm questioning is why she has chosen to take her complaints to the media. Can't they argue among themselves?

You can air dirty laundry all you like, it's just bound to smell when you do.
I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't prefer if Stevie left the Lindsey bashing at home. Not because I feel bad for the guy at all, but just because of how it sometimes makes her look. But every one of them has said that they're basically a dysfunctional family disguised as a rock band, so maybe this is how they communicate. Maybe Stevie feels that in order to REALLY get Lindsey's attention, she has to take her complaints to the press -- lest her feelings get brushed off as inconsequential yet again. Perhaps she feels that grand gestures are what it takes to really get through to him. :shrug:

As for the accusations of lying... I haven't seen an artist yet who's said, "I absolutely loathe my latest album, but please still buy it anyway." At the time of its release, they always put on the best face and promote the hell out of it -- only later does it come out that they were less than pleased with it. Actors do the same thing -- doing rounds on all of the talk shows and entertainment programs, talking about how wonderful the experience was, etc., etc. Then, five years later, they nary have a positive thing to say about the film, or they reveal nasty clashes with the director, and so on.

It's not something unique to Stevie.

[Sarah]

Peace out, Stevie. :wavey:

Helloooooo Lindsey Buckingham & Friends with special guests Mick Fleetwood and John McVie! :woohoo:

[strandinthewind]

. . . That's the whole point of her, isn't that totally clear? SHE doesn't like it if HE's stealing the show where SHE should. If he's in a more back-up position she's more happy. It's that simple . . . .

With respect - that can only be your opinion and it frankly is unsupported by the facts. Since the Tusk tour and really brefore then, she has left the stage when he is doing his thing. She willingly gives him the light at those times. And, it is her's to give. Like or not, the vast majority of the people at a FM show cry out for her and have for like 30+ years. Even LB has said more than once that he gets a little jealous of her popularity and/or the fact that his production of her bare demos (which she readily describes as brilliant) get her the initial radio play to get there. Isn't it interesting that LB rarely speaks in terms of FM songs. They are always his songs or his work on songs. To me, that is very telling of his nature. If any of us had a co-worker like that, they'd likely get the freeze as well.

In the end, I think La Nicks is telling the truth about why she is not FM and it has nothing to do with LB garnering more spotlight time without CM there.

And, I could care a less that she makes these statements in public.

[Sarah]

Dude, don't even act like Stevie leaves the stage to give Lindsey the spotlight.

Back in the day, Stevie left the stage to do blow, change costumes, do her hurrr, get a drink of water, etc etc etc. I'm pretty sure now Stevie just leaves the stage so she can hear thunderous applause when she comes back in. :rolleyes:

And why, exactly, would that coworker get the freeze when that coworker is the one that sculpted your song into a hit that generated extra radio airplay and, subsequently, a bigger check every month? That's shooting yourself in the foot. If I was Lindsey and dedicated so much more time in the studio.. spent time making something good out of a a scrap pile of vocals that Stevie just zipped in to unload quickly before heading out again.. I'd talk about the work I did as well. There's a lot of "oh, Lindsey isn't working as a baaaaand" talk. I don't see why it's so easy to forget that Stevie has been nonexistant on other album sessions in the past. He's doing the biggest portion of the work and she gets to stamp her name on it and enjoy the majority of the recognition from the casual fans. I can understand problems with personality and stuff like that, but really when it comes to being involved, she has no room to talk.

[strandinthewind]

I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't prefer if Stevie left the Lindsey bashing at home. Not because I feel bad for the guy at all, but just because of how it sometimes makes her look. But every one of them has said that they're basically a dysfunctional family disguised as a rock band, so maybe this is how they communicate. Maybe Stevie feels that in order to REALLY get Lindsey's attention, she has to take her complaints to the press -- lest her feelings get brushed off as inconsequential yet again. Perhaps she feels that grand gestures are what it takes to really get through to him. :shrug:

As for the accusations of lying... I haven't seen an artist yet who's said, "I absolutely loathe my latest album, but please still buy it anyway." At the time of its release, they always put on the best face and promote the hell out of it -- only later does it come out that they were less than pleased with it. Actors do the same thing -- doing rounds on all of the talk shows and entertainment programs, talking about how wonderful the experience was, etc., etc. Then, five years later, they nary have a positive thing to say about the film, or they reveal nasty clashes with the director, and so on.

It's not something unique to Stevie.

And, she still has some positive things to say about certain aspects of the record and the tour. Moreover, she does not exist frozen in time. Any of us have had reconciliations with people and if we were interviewed then, the remarks would be kind. Fast forward to another blow up and the comments then would be unkind.

In the end, if they can't work it out, she should go. But, I think people are loathe to give her credit in any fashion for trying to get them back. She is making an effort here and IMO it comes from her love of the band that she fought for for three decades.

[strandinthewind]

. . . I'm pretty sure now Stevie just leaves the stage so she can hear thunderous applause when she comes back in. :rolleyes:

Do you really think that or are you being sarcastic?

Again, she has said she tones down her act when in FM out of respect for LB, who apparantly is jealous of her popularity when compared to his and hates her lively stage presence. I believe her because she is much more animated in her solo shows.

I don't know - maybe it is just people cannot see her as anything but an unkind, plotting, fame whore even when the evidence fails to support that.

[Johnny Stew]

It's about the fact that Lindsey's place in the spotlight will be reduced too, Stewie. That's the whole point of her, isn't that totally clear? SHE doesn't like it if HE's stealing the show where SHE should. If he's in a more back-up position she's more happy. It's that simple.With all due respect, I think that's a little bit of revisionistic history. I can't think of a time when Lindsey was ever in a "back-up" position on stage. Even when Christine was there, he was full of all of the same manic, jittery energy that he has now -- howling, moaning, playing blistering solos, duck-walking across the stage. He was never a shrinking violet.

I don't think "on stage" is where the problem lies.

I want another solorecord from her too. So it'll be clear that she's done with good songwriting, like she has been for years.

At least your motives are pure!

[Sarah]

Do you really think that or are you being sarcastic?

Again, she has said she tones down her act when in FM out of respect for LB, who apparantly is jealous of her popularity when compared to his and hates her lively stage presence. I believe her because she is much more animated in her solo shows.

I don't know - maybe it is just people cannot see her as anything but an unkind, plotting, fame whore even when the evidence fails to support that.

I'm just being sarcastic, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were true.

Gosh, I guess that could be the same reason Lindsey is more animated in his solo shows, right? :confused:

[SortaSavageLike]

I don't think "on stage" is where the problem lies.


I think you've got a brilliant idea, Johnny.

Should MacDaddy be a failure, this is my other solution: A completely unproduced stream-of-consciousness live album performed in front of an audience of 10,000 adoring fans. No rehearsal, no backing musicians, nada. It'll flop, naturally, but at least they get their art without the attendant suffering.

[Johnny Stew]

Moreover, she does not exist frozen in time. Any of us have had reconciliations with people and if we were interviewed then, the remarks would be kind. Fast forward to another blow up and the comments then would be unkind.
Excellent point. It's easy to see "inconsistencies" in someone else's comments, when comparing things that have been said over the course of several years, but I wonder how many of us would also seem inconsistent in our thoughts, opinions and moods, if someone just took a snapshot of us at any given time and then tried to compare it to something else we've said.

In the end, if they can't work it out, she should go. But, I think people are loathe to give her credit in any fashion for trying to get them back. She is making an effort here and IMO it comes from her love of the band that she fought for for three decades.

I think that's the essence of all of this... if she really, truly wanted to leave Fleetwood Mac, she just would. She has no reason to stay. Sure, the paychecks are great, but she's not exactly relegated to playing for drinks as a solo artist. I think she absolutely wants to be a part of Fleetwood Mac -- I just don't think she wants to be the little sister everyone ignores anymore. She's a 60-year old woman with enough experience of her own to have a valid opinion and want it to be respected and considered.

[strandinthewind]

. . . And why, exactly, would that coworker get the freeze when that coworker is the one that sculpted your song into a hit that generated extra radio airplay and, subsequently, a bigger check every month? That's shooting yourself in the foot. If I was Lindsey and dedicated so much more time in the studio.. spent time making something good out of a a scrap pile of vocals that Stevie just zipped in to unload quickly before heading out again.. I'd talk about the work I did as well. There's a lot of "oh, Lindsey isn't working as a baaaaand" talk. I don't see why it's so easy to forget that Stevie has been nonexistant on other album sessions in the past. He's doing the biggest portion of the work and she gets to stamp her name on it and enjoy the majority of the recognition from the casual fans. I can understand problems with personality and stuff like that, but really when it comes to being involved, she has no room to talk.

Interestingly, had La Nicks not been touring so much, FM's popularity could have waned. I have often wondered what would have happened if she had not gone solo. I do not think FM would have out records out any quicker than they did. Moreover, IMO really TITN was the record she was mostly absent on. She was present for everything before then and she was present for a long time for SYW, though she missed the first half of it. And, according to most, LB prefers to work on her stuff alone anyway :shrug:

They exist within a band. He could not sell his stuff without her and, in larger part on the radio, CM. They were the hit makers and the hits came from him, though FM contributed as well. I mean LB did not write John's slamming bass lines on Dreams, Don't Stop, The Chain, etc. - ditto for CM's piano. Then, after a somewhat slow start, La Nicks' stage presence sold FM live. Yes, FM is and was a great band with or without La Nicks. But, having a hottie center stage belting out mysterious songs and dancing a blue streak in sexy attire sold the music live and on a level that CM and LB just could not take FM. And, that is nothing againt LB and CM - I love their work and think they are musically more talented than La Nicks, esp. CM. They are just to the vast majority of the people comparatively boring live. I think LB gets and got jealous of that and I think when people hear that they think it is a slam on LB and CM. To me, it is not. To me, it is just looking at things as they are. He needs her, esp. in FM (as a duo outsideof FM I am unsure they would be commercially viable) to sell his records on any large level and he obviously likes that level of fame and her and the path her stardom allows him to walk or he would not keep coming back to her and FM :shrug: Ditto for her.

[strandinthewind]

. . . Gosh, I guess that could be the same reason Lindsey is more animated in his solo shows, right? :confused:

I don't think LB has ever toned it down for anyone :laugh:

Nor should he or her IMO.

[strandinthewind]

I think you've got a brilliant idea, Johnny.

Should MacDaddy be a failure, this is my other solution: A completely unproduced stream-of-consciousness live album performed in front of an audience of 10,000 adoring fans. No rehearsal, no backing musicians, nada. It'll flop, naturally, but at least they get their art without the attendant suffering.

Arguably, that was some if not most of the Rumours tour :laugh:

[Johnny Stew]

They exist within a band. He could not sell his stuff without her and, in larger part on the radio, CM.

You've (inadvertently?) hit upon an interesting point... Lindsey has said that his "greatest role" in Fleetwood Mac was in being able to take rough material from Christine and Stevie and turn those songs into something great. By and large, Christine had far more Top 40 hits than Stevie, and therefore helped sell a LOT of records with those hit singles, yet Lindsey received no more credit for his work on her songs than he did for Stevie's. Not even from Christine herself (in fact, after he left the band, I got the feeling Christine was somewhat downplaying Lindsey's role in the production aspect).

Which begs the question... were there ever any jealousies over that? Or was the competition solely between Lindsey & Stevie because they had been a couple?

[strandinthewind]

You've (inadvertently?) hit upon an interesting point... Lindsey has said that his "greatest role" in Fleetwood Mac was in being able to take rough material from Christine and Stevie and turn those songs into something great. By and large, Christine had far more Top 40 hits than Stevie, and therefore helped sell a LOT of records with those hit singles, yet Lindsey received no more credit for his work on her songs than he did for Stevie's. Not even from Christine herself (in fact, after he left the band, I got the feeling Christine was somewhat downplaying Lindsey's role in the production aspect).

Which begs the question... were there ever any jealousies over that? Or was the competition solely between Lindsey & Stevie because they had been a couple?

In the Tusk doc., doesn't CM hit on this a little when discussing, I think, You'll Never Make Me Cry? I think she says something about LB telling her to play it a different way and she replies that she would play it as written or something like that. If anyone has the quote, I am all ears :cool: I also think CM's demos were fuller than La Nicks, at least in the beginning, though I think that was less true once she got a synth and a home studio where she could lay the basic piano track and then synth in more sound. So, I think LB perhaps approached CM's songs from a different angle - fear comes to mind actually :laugh: But and more to the point, I think LB was jealous of FM's stardom and his relative lack of stardom, esp. concerning La Nicks.

[Miss Vicky]

I don't know - maybe it is just people cannot see her as anything but an unkind, plotting, fame whore


And other people are unable to see Lindsey as anything but an unkind, jealous, brutish control freak who can't play fair.

Likewise, they can't see Stevie as anything but the perfect, can-do-no-wrong goddess of their fantasies.

All camps are equally guilty of villifying one side and victimizing the other, so again let's stop pointing fingers.

[strandinthewind]

And other people are unable to see Lindsey as anything but an unkind, jealous, brutish control freak who can't play fair.

Likewise, they can't see Stevie as anything but the perfect, can-do-no-wrong goddess of their fantasies.

All camps are equally guilty of villifying one side and victimizing the other, so again let's stop pointing fingers.

To be fair - I am not in either of those camps - not that you said I was :cool:

I do think though that many people qualify 100% as in those categories, save perhaps for Gerald :cool:

[strandinthewind]

To be fair and perhaps to lighten the mood - here is perfect example of FM working as a band and working very well.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cA9fT32OCpI&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cA9fT32OCpI&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

I was there four or so rows back from their mics and the tension, angst, love, and fluidity of the music was palpable. If they can work with this result, I say go for it and put the personal BS aside. What you can't really see is that in the end (around 6:20) when they are dancing with each other, she is singing to him -- from where I was, it looked like she was singing "were we just dreaming" -- I cried if not sobbed. Music played with that emotion and that can move people to that extreme should be made IMO.

[jbrownsjr]

Waste of breathe (beautiful though it is) -- no one here will admit that LB might have been a pri*k to her - his history of being polite to women is so clean. And, even if she is/was a total c*nt beloved to the unwashed masses, to everyone in the history of art (defined only by LB and devil may care about CM (the more talented of the three)) -- it does not matter because La Nicks, despite like 50 million records and countless sold out shows - is a talentless cu*t who is not a star much less the one whom LB salivates to ride on the coat tails of to fame :rolleyes: After all, his history of caring for art above FM is so pristine :rolleyes:

I agree with this... Fleetwood Mac after "Out of the Cradle" has been LB's piggy bank... funding him to do his solo stuff that few will buy. His "bitchy" and "Snippy" comments about CM were because he knew they would lose a lot of revenue without her on tour and on the record. He was pissed that he had to be in FM and not receive instant millions as they did on the Dance. The SYW tour a lot of work for not so many millions anymore... And for Stevie to have to do all that work and put up with LB's big bag of bull****... well it's just not in her best interest.. She can do her stuff, be in charge, hire/fire who she wants, pick the setlist, etc etc... I don't care whom you like better, the bottom line is they need her more than she needs them.. To me, that fact is obvious...

On the other hand, I would rather watch a show with 500 people too.. than 10000 to see the same old tired vanilla arrangements that they've been pumping out since the Dance.

[David]

As for the accusations of lying... I haven't seen an artist yet who's said, "I absolutely loathe my latest album, but please still buy it anyway." At the time of its release, they always put on the best face and promote the hell out of it -- only later does it come out that they were less than pleased with it.Yes, yes. The situation is somewhat analogous to that of STREET ANGEL, which she started slagging some months after (like on the Mary Turner OFF THE RECORD show). I think Stevie really hates SAY YOU WILL. (I'm with her there!) She doesn't want to make another SAY YOU WILL with the group. She probably hates UNDER THE SKIN too, & worries that another Fleetwood album will be just as awful. She figures Lindsey is still whispering & screeching & making weird noises, & that there's no reason to think he wouldn't do so on a new group album.

By the way, I deplore all this talk of Stevie's "commitment" to the group, as if she stands apart from any of the others on that front. She doesn't. She has no more commitment (whatever that actually is) to it than the others ever did. Saying she could have left after each of her solo triumphs doesn't mean ****. Any of them could have left. No one was forced to stay in the group, ever. This idea that career necessity is what forced the others to stay in the group, whereas Stevie already had a great career outside the group & so returned only out of commitment & virtue, is bunk. It pulls the rug out from under the others before even giving them a chance to do an entrechat six or a demi-plié. It's akin to applauding the rich man for his healthful diet when the poor man eats nothing but bologna. Commitment must stand on an equal footing of circumstance & opportunity. Besides, Stevie was treated like a moron for many years in the group, but still didn't leave. That's not commitment. That's dumbness.

[Sarah]

Yeah, it's just a discussion. I don't care if people like Stevie more than Lindsey... really. It's nice to have the "we're in a super secret club" feeling that hardcore Lindsey fans have. :P

To say that I don't like Stevie at all would be unfair. It's just that... a few selections aside... I haven't cared for anything she's done since 1980. The voice and songwriting just isn't cutting it.

As far as commitment goes, I think the only award there should go to John McVie. :wavey:

[David]

What you can't really see is that in the end (around 6:20) when they are dancing with each other, she is singing to him -- from where I was, it looked like she was singing "were we just dreaming" -- I cried if not sobbed.You ... sobbed?

Had you been drinking heavily?

[David]

I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't prefer if Stevie left the Lindsey bashing at home. Not because I feel bad for the guy at allI know you don't feel bad for Lindsey. You never did. You always feel bad for Stevie! :thumbsup:

[strandinthewind]

David - I disagree. I think La Nicks was committed to FM and she stood by that. I think much of it came out of her love for the other four and, more directly, her unresolved feelings for LB and her desire to help him, perhaps out of guilt for leaving him once his production greatly helped her skyrocket. Similarly, I think she also loved being in FM and the prestige it got her despite the heartache. That she never left when times got bad and only left once LB and CM were gone or going is supportive of my point. Was she a fool for not leaving? Perhaps. But, her being a fool is not the same thing as her commitment :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

. . . Had you been drinking heavily?

Hello - the day ended in "ay" :cool:

[jbrownsjr]

[QUOTE=David;750783]Yes, yes. The situation is somewhat analogous to that of STREET ANGEL, which she started slagging some months after (like on the Mary Turner OFF THE RECORD show). I think Stevie really hates SAY YOU WILL. (I'm with her there!) She doesn't want to make another SAY YOU WILL with the group. She probably hates UNDER THE SKIN too, & worries that another Fleetwood album will be just as awful. She figures Lindsey is still whispering & screeching & making weird noises, & that there's no reason to think he wouldn't do so on a new group album.

[QUOTE]

I couldn't agree more....

[starshine]

I love, love, love Stevie to death, but this LB bashing is getting OLD! I've always been "about" her when it came to FM, but say the last 10 years, realized it's a band, and every member has a major contribution. Hearing this about LB is just mean.
Every "job" has it's BS to deal with, but for crap sake, they are singers. Can't you all just get along, call it a day and cash in on ANOTHER Rumours revival? When FM hits the road, and I don't mean if, cause I am 100% that they will do this, it's gonna be Mick that plays mediator, and it'll be a smashing success and then in 2010 when Stevie does another interview to promote a "same Ol" tour (that I can bash all I want but will prolly be at multiple shows cause I'm a dumbass) she'll start in with how the 2009 tour was unpleasant, and blah, blah blah.
Seriously, I just can't figure why she is being so negative. I used to figure it was the journalists twisting her words around and mis-quoting to generate interest, but now I'm gonna just have to wake up and realize Stevie can be not so nice. :distress:I totally agree with you....Stevie needs to grow up and get past all this Lindsey anger.....she'll be 60 yrs old. It appears she's not using it to write songs anymore...so whats the point really. Keep it to yourself. That 'drama' has been over for so long now...the records getting mighty old if you ask me. As sad as it my be get over it/move on...don't go back to FMac. Be done with it than Stevie. I'm sure we'll have 'another' interview were she'll be all sweet about Lindsey & FMac etc. We know how she really doesn't know what she says in all these interviews....I really love Stevies music etc...but I'm tired of all this stuff.....its day has come and gone really....old news now........IMO that is........:shrug:

[michelle2677]

what cracks me up, is everyone's saying stevie needs to get over it and quit talking about it.


um. what about lindsey? i love him just as much as the next person, but if he's treating her like ****, obviously he has some built up tension going on as well.


i think they both need to get over it (and themselves) and start making great music that I hope they are still capable of making.

[Miss Vicky]

By the way, I deplore all this talk of Stevie's "commitment" to the group, as if she stands apart from any of the others on that front. She doesn't. She has no more commitment (whatever that actually is) to it than the others ever did. Saying she could have left after each of her solo triumphs doesn't mean ****. Any of them could have left. No one was forced to stay in the group, ever. This idea that career necessity is what forced the others to stay in the group, whereas Stevie already had a great career outside the group & so returned only out of commitment & virtue, is bunk. It pulls the rug out from under the others before even giving them a chance to do an entrechat six or a demi-plié. It's akin to applauding the rich man for his healthful diet when the poor man eats nothing but bologna. Commitment must stand on an equal footing of circumstance & opportunity. Besides, Stevie was treated like a moron for many years in the group, but still didn't leave. That's not commitment. That's dumbness.


I completely agree. She's no more commited to the band than Lindsey. I also think it's pretty ridiculous to cite Stevie's solo triumphs when she's basically become a Vegas act, playing the old hits to a bunch of old fans. She may have another solo project in the works, but she hasn't actually released new material since 2001. She seems satisfied to keep releasing compilations instead. I mean, from 1991 to 2007, she released a best of, a box set and yet another best of with only two albums of new material (neither of which, IMO, were anywhere near as good as her previous solo work) in that same time frame. How triumphant is that?

I also find it really harsh to villify Lindsey for being jealous of Stevie's success. Jealousy is a very natural emotion that we all feel from time to time. People are too quick to assume that he doesn't want Stevie to be the success that she is, rather than the more likely (IMO) case of him simply feeling that he deserves the same level of success.

[starshine]

To be fair and perhaps to lighten the mood - here is perfect example of FM working as a band and working very well.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cA9fT32OCpI&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cA9fT32OCpI&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

I was there four or so rows back from their mics and the tension, angst, love, and fluidity of the music was palpable. If they can work with this result, I say go for it and put the personal BS aside. What you can't really see is that in the end (around 6:20) when they are dancing with each other, she is singing to him -- from where I was, it looked like she was singing "were we just dreaming" -- I cried if not sobbed. Music played with that emotion and that can move people to that extreme should be made IMO.Thanks for the You Tube video...its great. Where was this at? I love the song Sara....it goes to also show that Stevie can still sing her 'older' songs...even if her voice is lower...she just has to change how she sings them. I think she's just lazy & doesn't like to change her set list up or make excuses for not changing songs etc...theres always ways she can do things so she could sing them....she doesn't want to though...sad but true...IMO....thanks again for the video.....cool:thumbsup:

[strandinthewind]

what cracks me up, is everyone's saying stevie needs to get over it and quit talking about it.


um. what about lindsey? i love him just as much as the next person, but if he's treating her like ****, obviously he has some built up tension going on as well.


i think they both need to get over it (and themselves) and start making great music that I hope they are capable of.

I often wonder if the drama is stages and they are playing parts in the press. I mean no one has this much drama in their lives. Personally, I think it is all K's fault :nod:

[Miss Vicky]

I often wonder if the drama is stages and they are playing parts in the press. I mean no one has this much drama in their lives. Personally, I think it is all K's fault :nod:


K as in Kristen?

I do hope you're kidding.

[strandinthewind]

. . . rather than the more likely (IMO) case of him simply feeling that he deserves the same level of success.

I think that is part of it to be sure. And, his talent merits that level of success. But, having a set of nads myself, I can tell you male jealousy of a hottie who dumped you and then having wild success is a severe blow to the male ego, such as it is :laugh:

I think LB likely thinks he is as committed to FM. However, that he walked awayin 87 and came back in 97 and 03 mostly for the money and to get the vehicle to release his solo stuff is not the same as La Nicks going back to FM since 1981 - she did not use the band that way, save for 97, when they all needed it, though had La Nicks lost the weight and released a killer solo record in 97, she likely would have had moderate if not significant success. People love a comeback and she clearly played that card in 97 in FM.

[michelle2677]

I often wonder if the drama is stages and they are playing parts in the press. I mean no one has this much drama in their lives. Personally, I think it is all K's fault :nod:


i wonder that too. but then, why wouldn't lindsey be going after stevie in the press? but sometimes i wonder. this band has always been about big egos, f*cked up love affairs/triangles, chemistry and great music. why stop now?


i say let them beat the **** out of each other to a bloody pulp, just make great music while you're at it :lol:

[strandinthewind]

K as in Kristen?

I do hope you're kidding.

SHE IS BABY HOLDING EVIL BEEYOTCH :mad::mad:

(of course I am joking :p )

[strandinthewind]

i wonder that too. but then, why wouldn't lindsey be going after stevie in the press? but sometimes i wonder. this band has always been about big egos, f*cked up love affairs/triangles, chemistry and great music. why stop now?


i say let them beat the **** out of each other to a bloody pulp, just make great music while you're at it :lol:

But he does. When SYW was released, he made that comment about her never thanking him and seeing the record in dark colors, etc.

More recently, he piped up about moving the mics closer on stage.

So, he gets his jabs in. I think that La Nicks is more in the public spotlight is a large reason why she gets more quotes, etc. I mean if you interview La Nicks, you have to ask about FM :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

Thanks for the You Tube video...its great. Where was this at? I love the song Sara....it goes to also show that Stevie can still sing her 'older' songs...even if her voice is lower...she just has to change how she sings them. I think she's just lazy & doesn't like to change her set list up or make excuses for not changing songs etc...theres always ways she can do things so she could sing them....she doesn't want to though...sad but true...IMO....thanks again for the video.....cool:thumbsup:

This was the opening night of the third leg of the SYW tour - gldstwmn and I schlepped it up to Madison, WI for the show, which was fantastic.

[Miss Vicky]

However, that he walked away in 87 and came back in 97 and 03 mostly for the money and to get the vehicle to release his solo stuff.

What evidence do you have to support that claim?

If he was using it as a "vehicle for his solo stuff," he would've cashed in on the attention by releasing a solo album in 98 when it would've been most lucrative. I also don't see how it was a money thing. It's not like he had family to support at that point and as far as I know he never had the financial difficulties that Mick had.

[strandinthewind]

What evidence do you have to support that claim?

If he was using it as a "vehicle for his solo stuff," he would've cashed in on the attention by releasing a solo album in 98 when it would've been most lucrative. I also don't see how it was a money thing. It's not like he had family to support at that point and as far as I know he never had the financial difficulties that Mick had.

He said in the interviews around the time of The Dance and in the ones after that The Dance was about the money and to bring him back in the spotlight for his solo vehicle. He did get his solo stuff ready by, I think, 1999 ( a miracle for him if ask me :laugh: ) -- but he says Warners changed management and was not interested in him (hence WTWCT) -- so, he again went to FM and SYW was the result. If anyone has the quotes, maybe they'll post them. Maybe LB is in a better place now with the need to have commercial success. UTS and the tour certainly were not commercial successes, though they were mostly critically acclaimed. So, maybe he's over it.

[SmileAtYou]

I often wonder if the drama is stages and they are playing parts in the press. I mean no one has this much drama in their lives. Personally, I think it is all K's fault :nod:

Right on! :thumbsup:

I completely agree. She's no more commited to the band than Lindsey. I also think it's pretty ridiculous to cite Stevie's solo triumphs when she's basically become a Vegas act, playing the old hits to a bunch of old fans. She may have another solo project in the works, but she hasn't actually released new material since 2001. She seems satisfied to keep releasing compilations instead. I mean, from 1991 to 2007, she released a best of, a box set and yet another best of with only two albums of new material (neither of which, IMO, were anywhere near as good as her previous solo work) in that same time frame. How triumphant is that?


Well, yes there are old fans at Stevie shows, but there are new fans, too. I am a new Stevie fan, I am only 20. I know there are other new Stevie Nicks / Fleetwood Mac fans out there, too!

I don't think it's fair to say Stevie's a "Vegas Act", either... last summer she had the extensive Crystal Visions tour, and she has released dates this summer all over the country. She rocked when I saw her last summer, I can't wait to see her again this summer.

And, in my opinion, Trouble in Shangri La is as good as or better than some of Stevie's previous work.

New fans like me have never had a chance to see Fleetwood Mac live! I am just dying for them to reunite for one more tour!


:angel:

[trackaghost]

Surely the reason Stevie is saying all this stuff publicly is to put herself in a better bargaining position? Somehow I think she knows what she's doing.

[Miss Vicky]

He said in the interviews around the time of The Dance and in the ones after that The Dance was about the money and to bring him back in the spotlight for his solo vehicle.

I don't recall him saying anything about it being about money. I mean, if you're right, you're right, but I'd like to see some articles to prove it.

[strandinthewind]

Surely the reason Stevie is saying all this stuff publicly is to put herself in a better bargaining position? Somehow I think she knows what she's doing.

She knows her power in the band is her star power. She also is a pro act handling and using the press. So, of course this is in some manner a bargaining chip she is playing. It also likely is the truth.

[strandinthewind]

I don't recall him saying anything about it being about money. I mean, if you're right, you're right, but I'd like to see some articles to prove it.

It was in the initial press for SYW. He was talking about the new material and how it got to that point. He also said during The Dance interviews that any notice he got out of a highly successful FM reunion would help his solo career. I used to have all that stuff, but no longer do. Maybe someone will have it readily available and post it.

[trackaghost]

I also find it really harsh to villify Lindsey for being jealous of Stevie's success. Jealousy is a very natural emotion that we all feel from time to time. People are too quick to assume that he doesn't want Stevie to be the success that she is, rather than the more likely (IMO) case of him simply feeling that he deserves the same level of success.

I always thought that Lindsey wasn't so much jealous of her success but jealous that so much of Fleetwood Mac's success was credited to her, when obviously he was behind much of the sound. Then when she broke big as a solo artist it seemed to back up the claims that she was the main reason Fleetwood Mac became such a huge act when they did, so I'm sure that didn't help.

[Miss Vicky]

I don't think it's fair to say Stevie's a "Vegas Act", either... last summer she had the extensive Crystal Visions tour, and she has released dates this summer all over the country. She rocked when I saw her last summer, I can't wait to see her again this summer.

And this proves what?

I'm well aware that she toured extensively for Crystal Visions. But Crystal Visions is just a compilation and not a true solo album. Again, she's still playing the same old songs.

As for Trouble In Shangri-La being as good or better than her previous work, we'll agree to disagree. Those who know me on these boards know what I think of that particular album.

[trackaghost]

It was in the initial press for SYW. He was talking about the new material and how it got to that point. He also said during The Dance interviews that any notice he got out of a highly successful FM reunion would help his solo career. I used to have all that stuff, but no longer do. Maybe someone will have it readily available and post it.

I think the Dance and SYW albums made it possible for him to make Under The Skin and this rock follow-up he keeps taking about, for sure. It would be interesting to see how many younger fans would be posting here without those albums. Not so many I suspect.

[strandinthewind]

I think the Dance and SYW albums made it possible for him to make Under The Skin and this rock follow-up he keeps taking about, for sure. It would be interesting to see how many younger fans would be posting here without those albums. Not so many I suspect.

There is the rub that makes such a calamity of LB's life :shrug:

[michelej1]

Even LB has said more than once that he gets a little jealous of her popularity and/or the fact that his production of her bare demos (which she readily describes as brilliant) get her the initial radio play to get there. Isn't it interesting that LB rarely speaks in terms of FM songs.

When has Lindsey ever said he was jealous? The closest thing he ever said was that it sometimes was hard working on her songs and even then he was talking in terms of lost love and the tension between them with her moving farther away from him. He was not saying, "I am sad and insecure because she's more popular than I am."

And it's not true that Lindsey rarely speaks in terms of FM songs either. On the Rumours DVD you can hear him talking about everyone's songs. Long before that, I can recall him remembering how a DJ cried about the way his and Christine's songs followed each other on the Rumours album and the fact that it was the 2 of them together like that that made it so powerful. When asked about the most feel good FM song, he quickly named Don't Stop. He calls Don't Stop classic Christine. He's said how Landslide was all Stevie. He said Tango had the best work by Christine ever.

Songwriters often get asked about the songs they wrote. That's why they talk about them. Lindsey has talked about more FM songs that he didn't write than Stevie has. I don't assume that's because Stevie is jealous of everyone else in FM (although I think she is jealous because she feels excluded by the musicians, something she mentioned again when talking about Dreams at the Honda center). I think they don't talk about each other's songs all the time, because they aren't asked about them.

Michele

[strandinthewind]

^^

What I meant was he rarely speaks in terms of the songs being a group effort. He has referred to his production of the songs, which could be taken as a slight to the other four members. I suppose though that the three writers have to be territorial to a point and can't say I blame them.

[michelej1]

I think there is a lot to be said about the passage of time and its ability to focus our lens on the past in sharper detail.

I think more often the passage of time allows you to magnify either the good or the bad, depending on your current perspective and it's easy to do that once 4 years have passed, because memory and fact have conveniently blurred and fewer people are paying attention when you alter them.

The evidence establishes that Stevie and Lindsey did fight during the SYW process, because she made that perfectly clear at the time. She also said that she didn't sit there and take it. She stood her ground then. So, why is she playing the victim now? She said she went up to Lindsey and told him that he had gone in and out of her life and she had learned to do a lot of things on her own since then and she didn't need him to make her music come true any longer. And this was, in fact, the case, as she did produce Bombay Sapphires. So, there's no reason to think she had no say when he allegedly ruined her songs on SYW.

If she stuck up for herself when he wanted to change a pronoun in Thrown Down and told him no way, why would she sit quietly when he butchered an entire song (and not just a sentence in one), if she actually hated it?

In that promo when she practically has him up against the wall yelling at him, "I knew you wouldn't like it. I knew you wouldn't like it because I wrote it!" You can tell she has no trouble giving him a piece of her mind. It's just impossible for me to accept this mousy picture of herself she's painting today, based on what I saw then.

As far as putting a nice face on during the SYW tour goes. Speaking the usual platitudes and non-committal pleasantries would have been putting on a nice face. But going out of your way to praise the relationship at great length seems to be just a little proactive for it all to be a facade. Plus, even before SYW she was saying as they went into the project, "He is a much softer, sweeter man and I love that, because I knew that softer man a long time ago. So I'm seeing my old friend back again." So, it's not as if she just spun that story once she knew they would be stuck on a long tour. She said it before SYW and was still saying it in 2004.

I think like every relationship, theirs has its normal ups and downs, which are only exaggerated when you place them under a media telescope. It's at a down point right now, but not because she's been oppressed. Yet that's how she wants to present it to the public. It's not unlike the way her songs reverse things and make it seem like Lindsey left her in the relationship. She's always the put upon one in lyrics and interviews. It seems to be more of an image she has of herself than a reality.

You could say that St. Lindsey has an image of himself as a tortured artist who eschews commercial success. I'd agree that he does have somewhat of a complex, especially because I can't get him even to stop saying that FM wanted him to use a guitar pick. However, the rest of the band actually corroborates that view of Lindsey in the comments they make. I remember Stevie saying that after all of that time being around Lindsey, she didn't even want anyone to talk to her about a radio "single," because he had hammered that concept out of her head. She said this while promoting a solo album, not FM. So, it's just the impression she and Mick both have of him as aspiring to something beyond the Top 40. Conversely, I don't think anyone in the band has the same "poor little flower" impression of Stevie that she has of herself.

Anyway, talking about SYW, she said it's Lindsey's job to push the envelope and her job to make sure they aren't too out there. She made it seem like Yin and Yang, a balancing act, a push and pull of power between them, not him crushing or conquering her. And if she is as the drawing card in the band? How could it be any different?

How could he crush, conquer or bully her, if she holds all the cards? If there is no FM without her, he can't make her do anything she doesn't want to do. That was true in 2003 and 2004, just like it is today. So, I'm not sure how this victim routine can be credited. She's the most famous one. She's the most talented one. The rest of the band is entirely dependent upon her, but Lindsey pushes her around like a rag doll and she lets him because she is so selfless? Oh, Lindsey's not the one up for martydom here.

Michele

[michelej1]

^^

What I meant was he rarely speaks in terms of the songs being a group effort. He has referred to his production of the songs, which could be taken as a slight to the other four members. I suppose though that the three writers have to be territorial to a point and can't say I blame them.

Well, except for The Chain, I don't think anyone often talks about the group work on the songs, but Lindsey has pointed out how Mick's drumming not only contributed to one of his Tusk songs, but was the reason for its creation. He describes how he and Mick did it together in the studio one night.

Of course, Stevie talks about Lindsey's work on her songs because he was acting as producer. But I'm not sure how he could begin to talk about her input on his songs or Christine's. There's the line in Oh Daddy, but other than that, I don't think she has any involvement in their songs, aside from her vocals. As for The Chain, he did recall how it was definitely her lyrics. He talked about everyone's work on the Chain but he did say that he honestly couldn't remember anything that Mick had contributed to that. He did talk about John, Christine and Stevie though.

Michele

[DavidMn]

This is all very interesting coming from someone with my perspective who enjoys both Stevie and Lindsey equally. My main focus through the years has ALWAYS been Fleetwood Mac first and the artists within are an extension of that interest. Having said that, I have always felt the SYW is a VERY GOOD album and personally I dont think there are any bad songs on it.:)

[strandinthewind]

. . . So, I'm not sure how this victim routine can be credited . . . .

I do not see her as playing the victim. She is not willing to put up with what she sees as LB's BS and is doing something about it. That active nature makes her not a victim to me. A victim would just sit there and take it and then cry about it later. To my knowledge that has not happened since the 80's :shrug:

[michelej1]

And, according to most, LB prefers to work on her stuff alone anyway :shrug:


I think that's hardly the case. It wasn't true of TITN when he complained about her not being there. In fact, he likes her there and Stevie doesn't like being there, because she has nothing to do. Right after SYW was finished he said he wanted them to do another album where they could write and create together from the ground up, not just him working on her songs. He may like working on his songs alone (Stevie joked its because he doesn't want to look up and see her twirling a baton), but he's never said he wanted to work on hers without her.

As for Stevie's claim that she toned herself down for Lindsey, it's funny that she wore that same granny sweater to present an award to Tom Petty, when Lindsey was no where in sight. And the Reeboks had been in attendance in concert for years, starting when Lindsey was not part of the act. I don't know why once she got in her fifties, Lindsey would want her to dress more conservatively than she did when they were on stage in the eighties. And if he did, why would she listen to him? She didn't back then. She said he didn't like her to dress sexy when they first started, but that didn't stop her. Why did she change in 2003? He found new ways to threaten her?

I think constantly saying that your band members are jealous of you, from Fritz to the present day, actually reveals a lot more about the perrenial object of jealousy than it does about the band members.

Michele

[Johnny Stew]

I know you don't feel bad for Lindsey. You never did. You always feel bad for Stevie! :thumbsup:

It's probably a bit of sexism on my part. I'm usually faster to defend a woman than I am to defend a guy.

But I'm every bit a Lindsey Buckingham fan. Musically, he's had me in his corner up until Underwhelming To The Bone... err, Under The Skin. ;)

[michelej1]

I don't think LB has ever toned it down for anyone :laugh:

Nor should he or her IMO.

Oh he definitely does tone it down or at least divert it to something else. That talky personality present in the UTS shows was no where in sight on the FM tours. One thing that shocked me about the UTS tour is that I never realized Lindsey was such a good listener. Over the years, he seemed to have this glazed, distant look in his eyes and I thought he was somewhere far away and that he wasn't really present in the present. But for UTS he was really responding to the audience and making silly jokes. The venues were small with better acoustics and it was like he could hear what people were saying from 30 rows back -- and he answered them.

He showed a side of himself I didn't even glimpse with FM. And I guess I really shouldn't, because when you have a whole band there, one person can't take up all that focus.

Michele

[strandinthewind]

^^^

On Tusk - he did most of the work in his house and it caused problems :shrug: That is mostly what I was talking about - Also, La Nicks has said that LB can spend hours on end in the studio laying dowm multiple tracks that only he knows how to do. That is where I was coming from. As for TITN - yes, she was barely around. Personally, I think the rehab time was her FM time and she had to go to rehab. But, she was present for all the other records to a significant degree. And, in all that time, they never wrote and produced a song together. To me, that suggests the event will never happen.

[strandinthewind]

Oh he definitely does tone it down or at least divert it to something else . . . .


I was joking.

[michelej1]

I don't recall him saying anything about it being about money. I mean, if you're right, you're right, but I'd like to see some articles to prove it.

He never said it was about the money. Stevie said it was not about the money for Lindsey, because she said that he had more money than the rest of them.

"You know, Lindsey's made a whole lot more money than anybody else did because he produces. The producers get paid first. And he probably didn't spend nearly as much money as everybody else did; he lives way simpler. So he didn't have to do this for money, you know. The rest of us would all like to put something away for, you know, our golden twilight years. But he has to want to do it, or we don't want to do it either."

Michele

[Miss Vicky]

He never said it was about the money. Stevie said it was not about the money for Lindsey, because she said that he had more money than the rest of them.

"You know, Lindsey's made a whole lot more money than anybody else did because he produces. The producers get paid first. And he probably didn't spend nearly as much money as everybody else did; he lives way simpler. So he didn't have to do this for money, you know. The rest of us would all like to put something away for, you know, our golden twilight years. But he has to want to do it, or we don't want to do it either."

Michele

Yeah, I remember that quote. That's from RS right? That's the only thing I remember ever reading about Lindsey and money in regards to The Dance, which is why I questioned what Strand said.

[strandinthewind]

He never said it was about the money. Stevie said it was not about the money for Lindsey, because she said that he had more money than the rest of them.

"You know, Lindsey's made a whole lot more money than anybody else did because he produces. The producers get paid first. And he probably didn't spend nearly as much money as everybody else did; he lives way simpler. So he didn't have to do this for money, you know. The rest of us would all like to put something away for, you know, our golden twilight years. But he has to want to do it, or we don't want to do it either."

Michele


No, there is an intervierw where he explicitly says it. I remember Carne opined on it and cited it as proof. Let me look for it. Also - it is not that he or La Nicks need the money at all. Both could never work again, even in 1997. I think it was about making millions of dollars one more time and adding to the already significant pile they both have.

[michelej1]

^^^

And, in all that time, they never wrote and produced a song together. To me, that suggests the event will never happen.

Well, I guess you could say they produced Walter Egan together, in a way. As for songwriting, at first Stevie said she was jealous when he wrote World Turning with Chris and had never written with her. And she thought it was odd they'd never written together. But by the time SYW came out she said they had never written together and never would. It wasn't something she thought they could or should want to do (or even try) anymore.

From what Javier says, the Deep Dense lyrics are hers. So, if Lindsey ever finishes that, they would have written something together -- sort of.

Michele

[Johnny Stew]

The evidence establishes that Stevie and Lindsey did fight during the SYW process, because she made that perfectly clear at the time. She also said that she didn't sit there and take it. She stood her ground then. So, why is she playing the victim now?

It's just impossible for me to accept this mousy picture of herself she's painting today, based on what I saw then.

She's always the put upon one in lyrics and interviews. It seems to be more of an image she has of herself than a reality.

Conversely, I don't think anyone in the band has the same "poor little flower" impression of Stevie that she has of herself.

How could he crush, conquer or bully her, if she holds all the cards? If there is no FM without her, he can't make her do anything she doesn't want to do. That was true in 2003 and 2004, just like it is today. So, I'm not sure how this victim routine can be credited.

Maybe it's not a matter of whether or not she stands up for herself, but more a matter of her not wanting to have to anymore. Maybe she'd like it if she could offer an opinion and have it be legitimately considered and not just automatically tossed aside as rubbish -- unless she raises a big fuss about it.

[michelej1]

Not even from Christine herself (in fact, after he left the band, I got the feeling Christine was somewhat downplaying Lindsey's role in the production aspect).


I think that was more immediately in the wake of his exit, around the Cage tour. Later, she never downplayed it. Even when she was promoting In The Meantime, she praised him. I'm not even sure the relationship between her and Lindsey was good then. I suspect it was not, judging from his comments, but even then she talked about his influence. They asked her why her solo songs sounded like FM and she laughed and said it was because she'd written the FM hits. But then she became serious and said it was because Lindsey had influenced all of them so much.

Michele

[Johnny Stew]

I think that was more immediately in the wake of his exit, around the Cage tour. Later, she never downplayed it. Even when she was promoting In The Meantime, she praised him.

I was also thinking about 'Mask' and 'Time' era interviews (especially the former), but she does seem to have softened a bit in more recent times when talking about Lindsey.

Oh, and Jason, I can't recall Lindsey saying that 'The Dance' was about "the money," per se, although I do remember him saying that one of the big pluses for him was the fact that it would raise his profile again when it came to releasing his long-gestating solo album.

[michelej1]

Maybe it's not a matter of whether or not she stands up for herself, but more a matter of her not wanting to have to anymore. Maybe she'd like it if she could offer an opinion and have it be legitimately considered and not just automatically tossed aside as rubbish -- unless she raises a big fuss about it.


Yeah, I guess. Of course, I don't know if she automatically considers his opinions and doesn't toss those aside as rubbish too. It seems to me that since they are often diametrically opposed, maybe there's not a lot of consideration on either side. I know she said, "In the studio, if Lindsey said the wall was gray, I will be absolutely sure it was pink." I don't know if she is more open to gray than he is to pink or not.

To stop all the fighting, I think it would be a great idea if Sheryl came in and produced Stevie's songs and Lindsey had nothing to do with them. Then, I think Lindsey should do his songs with someone from the past, like Richard. Although that would probably create the same double solo album problem that SYW had, where it doesn't sound like a group endeavor. Of course, maybe at this point in the band, we can't have a band anymore. Just hope for some fresh music from both (separate) sides and then maybe a joint tour. Separate but equal.

Michele

[strandinthewind]

From The Orange County Register - August 12, 1997

So why did Buckingham finally relent?

"Why indeed?" he says with a laugh in a separate telephone interview from his Los Angeles hotel room. "There’s a point of view that is probably debatable that basically says the visibility from doing this...of having taken off 10 years and now being reinserted back into the group, that that visibility would be helpful in terms of rolling over into a solo album coming out."

[michelej1]

I was also thinking about 'Mask' and 'Time' era interviews (especially the former), but she does seem to have softened a bit in more recent times when talking about Lindsey.
.

Yes, I know what you mean about BTM. But by the time you get to 1993, Christine had come full circle again. Christine didn't agree with Dave Mason in the Time tour, didn't know why Mick kept trying to mend a broken vase. When asked who she would have had other than Dave, she said:

Lindsey Buckingham, I think he was the most superlative guitar player this band will ever have. A true shining light. After Lindsey, everybody else seems a little palid. I'm not talking talent, just chemistry for Fleetwood Mac.

She also said in 1993 that her biggest regrets in FM were not having had a #1single and Lindsey leaving: "Not that I’m criticizing the guys we got in to replace him-Rick Vito and Billy Burnette. They’re both fine musicians. But I do regret that Lindsey’s gone. There was a creative chemistry there which, when it was right, was absolutely amazing. Our individual approaches to music were so different, but there was this point where they met that was quite magical. To find that quality with other musicians is very difficult. It’s a once in a lifetime thing."


Michele

[michelej1]

"Why indeed?" he says with a laugh in a separate telephone interview from his Los Angeles hotel room. "There’s a point of view that is probably debatable that basically says the visibility from doing this...of having taken off 10 years and now being reinserted back into the group, that that visibility would be helpful in terms of rolling over into a solo album coming out."[/COLOR]

Yeah, no money talk. Michele

[strandinthewind]

. . . Oh, and Jason, I can't recall Lindsey saying that 'The Dance' was about "the money," per se, although I do remember him saying that one of the big pluses for him was the fact that it would raise his profile again when it came to releasing his long-gestating solo album.

It was I think in the SYW press stuff. He was saying I think about how SYW was new material (ironic isn't it) and The Dance was about the money. Carne commented on it as proof of LB's greed or whatever. Is there a way to search for it on here. I tried, but nothing really came up.

[strandinthewind]

Yeah, no money talk. Michele

Well, yes it is. I mean he wanted to raise the profile for his health? Of course not, he did it so his solo record would sell. That is apparent to me. Though they all said it was not about the money then in 97. Also, this is dispositive of my point that LB uses FM to regain popularity that his solo career cannot give him save perhaps for Law and Order. I need to find that SYW article.

[Johnny Stew]

Yeah, I guess. Of course, I don't know if she automatically considers his opinions and doesn't toss those aside as rubbish too. It seems to me that since they are often diametrically opposed, maybe there's not a lot of consideration on either side. I know she said, "In the studio, if Lindsey said the wall was gray, I will be absolutely sure it was pink." I don't know if she is more open to gray than he is to pink or not.

Even though I do believe them when they say they're in a comparatively "better" place than they have been in many years, I do think they both still have knee-jerk reactions to each other.

I think that Lindsey, for his part, can be rather dismissive of Stevie's opinions and forgets that she does know a thing or two about making music, and I think that Stevie, for her part, automatically mistrusts Lindsey's intentions because of their acrimonious past -- without ever giving him the benefit of the doubt.

I'd suggest a Dr. Phil intervention for the two of them, but I despise that square-headed, pompous windbag.

To stop all the fighting, I think it would be a great idea if Sheryl came in and produced Stevie's songs and Lindsey had nothing to do with them. Then, I think Lindsey should do his songs with someone from the past, like Richard. Although that would probably create the same double solo album problem that SYW had, where it doesn't sound like a group endeavor.

Josh (my mate) and I have talked about this several times, and I would really love to see Richard Dashut back in the producer's chair. Back in '95, I was surprised by how much 'Time' sounded like a "Fleetwood Mac" album without Lindsey at the helm -- which opened my eyes to the fact that Richard & Ken probably had a lot more to do with that sound than they're ever given credit for.

Plus, both Lindsey AND Stevie trust Richard, and he respects both of them.

So perhaps Lindsey & Richard could work together on Lindsey's material, and Sheryl & Richard could work together on Stevie's material (if Stevie would still like to have a woman to bounce things off of in the studio)... that, I think, would give the album cohesion and a comfortable atmosphere for all parties.

[Miss Vicky]

Well, yes it is. I mean he wanted to raise the profile for his health? Of course not, he did it so his solo record would sell.

But it could just as easily be said that he wanted to raise his profile and sell more solo records for that long sought after recognition rather than for the money.

[strandinthewind]

But it could just as easily be said that he wanted to raise his profile and sell more solo records for that long sought after recognition rather than for the money.

Thus my long standing point that they go hand in hand for him. But who knows, maybe now he realizes he will likely never have significant commercial success as a solo artist and is content with adulation only. It certtainly seems that way.

[michelej1]

Well, yes it is. I mean he wanted to raise the profile for his health? Of course not, he did it so his solo record would sell. That is apparent to me. Though they all said it was not about the money then in 97. Also, this is dispositive of my point that LB uses FM to regain popularity that his solo career cannot give him save perhaps for Law and Order. I need to find that SYW article.

But no one ever said Lindsey wasn't more interested in his solo album than he was in FM during the Dance. That's all he talked about at the time. Stevie even said that he was candid on that score. He said he was glad the Dance tour ended because he wanted to get back to that solo album.

You said that Lindsey said The Dance was about money and he wanted to rake in the millions one last time. Your quote about a roll over doesn't suggest any such thing. Now you're saying that you're implying that because he wanted to use the Dance exposure to promote his solo album, he expected to make big money off the solo album. Well, ok. But that's your take on what he said, not what he actually did say. No money talk.

As for him always using FM to help his solo career, before The Dance, the timing of his FM and solo projects was never right for that in the past. Mirage and Tango did nothing to help his solo endeavors, because he didn't have any to promote when he was getting publicity for those FM ventures.

There's no pattern of him using FM to help his solo work. Does he use FM to support himself so that he can indulge in his non-commercial solo endeavors? Yes. I think that's obvious. That is what I was saying when I likened him to George Clooney, Good Night and Good Luck and Oceans 11. FM has made him rich. No argument there.

Michele

[strandinthewind]

^^^

No, that quote was to support the other point. There is a quote where he flat out says it, but I can't find it. Oh Well.

[Tango]

There's another issue re: Lindsey that might threaten Stevie's involvement with Fleetwood Mac that hasn't been brought up. Maybe I am totally wrong on this. I think another issue could be the book written by Carol Ann Harris. If Fleetwood Mac makes a new album and gets on the publicity bus, I think it's all going to come out.

[Sarah]

But it could just as easily be said that he wanted to raise his profile and sell more solo records for that long sought after recognition rather than for the money.

It could also mean, "okay warner/reprise, here's your effing fleetwood mac cd. will you please let me have another solo record? please?"

;)

[Miss Vicky]

It could also mean, "okay warner/reprise, here's your effing fleetwood mac cd. will you please let me have another solo record? please?"

;)

Well yeah, there's that too.

[strandinthewind]

. . . Now you're saying that you're implying that because he wanted to use the Dance exposure to promote his solo album, he expected to make big money off the solo album. Well, ok. But that's your take on what he said, not what he actually did say. No money talk.

He wanted it to fail :shrug:

If critical success and personal triumph were all he cared about then and the hell with selling any records, then why would he need FM to propel him back in the limelight? Why not just release your solo stuff and if it sells one copy who cares - you have critical and personal success. He wanted the recrod to sell for whatever reasons, but it could not sell without FM. Isn't that clear as a bell?

. . . As for him always using FM to help his solo career, before The Dance, the timing of his FM and solo projects was never right for that in the past. Mirage and Tango did nothing to help his solo endeavors, because he didn't have any to promote when he was getting publicity for those FM ventures . . . .


Well, that is his own fault. GOS was mostly written before The Dance and certainly it should not have taken him three years to pitch it to WB :shrug: As for TITN, he left the band and then had to do a record. Tusk likely helped 1981's L&O. He waited too long for 1984's Go Insane. If he'd just hurry a little, his use of FM might be more effective :laugh:

But seriously, after Go Insane was not a great success, he morphed his next solo record into TITN and then followed the same pattern for The Dance amd SYW. Note - I am not gloating over this. I am just saying he likes popularity and commercial success. Who wouldn't?

[strandinthewind]

It could also mean, "okay warner/reprise, here's your effing fleetwood mac cd. will you please let me have another solo record? please?"

;)

I think that is exactly what he initially did and tried to do with The Dance. But, he is just not quick enough to ride on the popularity wave he does when that happens. Of course, his theory was blown out of the water when he released UTS to little commercial fanfare relatively soon for him after the two year SYW tour.

To wit:

Solo albums

Year Album US UK Additional information

1981 Law and Order 32 - Featured Lindsey's biggest charting single outside of Fleetwood Mac – "Trouble"
1984 Go Insane 45 - -
1992 Out of the Cradle 128 51 -
2006 Under the Skin 80 - -
2008 Live at the Bass Performance Hall - - -


Soundtrack appearances

Year Song Soundtrack Additional information

1983 "Holiday Road, "Dancing Across The USA" National Lampoon’s Vacation -
1985 "Time Bomb Town" Back to the Future -
1994 "On The Wrong Side" With Honors -
1996 "Twisted" Twister Duet with Stevie Nicks
2005 "Shut Us Down" Elizabethtown Un-Cut Version
2006 "Big Love" Elizabethtown Vol 2 Live Soundstage Performance


Singles

Year Song US Hot 100 US Mainstream Rock Album

1981 "Trouble" #9 #12 Law and Order
1983 "Holiday Road" #82 - National Lampoon's Vacation soundtrack
1984 "Go Insane" #23 #4 Go Insane
1992 "Wrong" - #23 Out of the Cradle
1992 "Countdown" - #38 Out of the Cradle

__________________________

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsey_Buckingham

[michelej1]

He wanted it to fail :shrug:

If critical success and personal triumph were all he cared about then and the hell with selling any records, then why would he need FM to propel him back in the limelight? Why not just release your solo stuff and if it sells one copy who cares - you have critical and personal success. He wanted the recrod to sell for whatever reasons, but it could not sell without FM. Isn't that clear as a bell?

No, it's not as clear as a bell to me. For one thing, I don't think he was under the illusion that his solo record would sell big with or without FM, since none of his past solo records had. But he wanted people to hear it. Maybe more people would hear it after being reminded that LB was that guy who was once with FM. It's easier to get booked on tours and to get airplay (to the extent that he'd get any at all) when people have some idea who you are.

But anyway, even if it is as clear as a bell to you, it's helpful having Lindsey's actual words, because I don't think everyone would take the same conclusions from them as you do.

Well, that is his own fault. GOS was mostly written before The Dance and certainly it should not have taken him three years to pitch it to WB :shrug: As for TITN, he left the band and then had to do a record. Tusk likely helped 1981's L&O. He waited too long for 1984's Go Insane. If he'd just hurry a little, his use of FM might be more effective :laugh:

If capitalizing on FM had been his main goal, I think he would have hurried a little, made more FM albums (the long interval between Mirage and Tango was placed at his door by the rest of the band) and also stayed in the band longer to give the greatest boost possible to this solo career that he has always hoped would make him millions and millions.

Michele

[strandinthewind]

^^^

Meh - it's in that interview I can't find. But, he said it and said it directly.

Now - even if he did The Dance as a springboard for the sales of his solo record (not my conclusion mind you - but his actual words) and devil may care about the making of money that goes with it (I mean really) - that does not mean that he did not enjoy The Dance and/or was unhappy about being together again. It is possible for all these things to happen all at once, which is what La Nicks usually said was so magical about The Dance.

[strandinthewind]

. . . If capitalizing on FM had been his main goal, I think he would have hurried a little . . . .

He is his own worst enemy :shrug:

[michelej1]

He is his own worst enemy :shrug:

Depends on how you define the fight. Michele

[Sarah]

"to wit" nothing. you're sitting here disrespecting his entire career. if you don't like lindsey, that's fine, but debating it with those of us who do like him... i find it quite puzzling. what do you have to prove? that you know everything about the way this band works? i doubt you would try to claim that, because it's simply ridiculous. so what then? you could do it better? so do it. or is it just taking a dump on the man because you need something - anything - to back-and-forth with someone on? i'm not trying to be a bitch, i just really don't understand why. it's the same quotes and figures that have been put up 10 million times.. common knowledge for everyone with reasonings that we can never understand because we aren't in the band.

christine said that best.. "nothing in FM surprises me"

back to lindsey... he said it clear as can be for UTS... i don't expect it to sell, it's more of a "boutique" album. he's obviously pleased with the reaction it got, he loved the tour.

soo... this dance could have blahblahblah, what if GOS this, what if SYW that... wank wank wank

[strandinthewind]

^^^

I posted a few things and then deleted them. Sarah - I truly am sorry I am such a horrible person to you. I feel you attacked me without provocation and I do not appreciate it. If you go back and read my posts, I was having a discussion about why LB likes FM, etc. No one was yelling or attacking anyone. Yet, you attacked and insulted me. Hooray for you. You win.

[Sarah]

i'm sorry, but i don't care what you appreciate when you apply your own meanings to my post. nor did i say you were a "horrible person to" me. this is not personal, it's just a response to your "to wit" post. his theory was blown out of the water you say?

"it's a boutique album".

a solo career to explore the "left side" of the palate that casual fans wouldn't necessarily "get".

i just don't know where you get off thinking you have lindsey's entire solo career and the theories behind it figured out. i've never noticed you as one who likes his solo music, so why it matters, i know not. what i do know is that while actually listening to and appreciating lindsey's music... how much it sells never crosses my mind. and it shouldn't. billions of people eat mcdonald's hamburgers. that doesn't make them good. the "lindsey's career is pretty much a failure" sentiment that seems to be the unspoken theme just doesn't hold water to me. if he had no more fans than the ones that were on this board, it would still be more than okay because what he's done means so much to us.

[strandinthewind]

i'm sorry, but i don't care what you appreciate when you apply your own meanings to my post. nor did i say you were a "horrible person to" me. this is not personal, it's just a response to your "to wit" post. his theory was blown out of the water you say?

"it's a boutique album".

a solo career to explore the "left side" of the palate that casual fans wouldn't necessarily "get".

i just don't know where you get off thinking you have lindsey's entire solo career and the theories behind it figured out. i've never noticed you as one who likes his solo music, so why it matters, i know not. what i do know is that while actually listening to and appreciating lindsey's music... how much it sells never crosses my mind. and it shouldn't. billions of people eat mcdonald's hamburgers. that doesn't make them good. the "lindsey's career is pretty much a failure" sentiment that seems to be the unspoken theme just doesn't hold water to me. if he had no more fans than the ones that were on this board, it would still be more than okay because what he's done means so much to us.

If you do not care how much he sells, then maybe you should refrain from conversations between several people who do care :shrug:

In the end, I think you would prefer it if we never talked about this again. Maybe next time we will run the topic through you, the self imposed thought police, first to make sure it's okay :rolleyes: Interestingly, you attacked only me in this thread and I was not the only one making points that you apparently consider against LB.

But, just to educate you - I have seen LB live and like most of his stuff, esp. the first two records. I even flew to Chicago for the Soundstage taping. True, some of his stuff is not my taste, but that can be said for some of FM and CM and La Nicks' solo stuff. So, perhaps you ought to ask me before assuming or attacking. Better yet, should I provide you with a list of the songs I like, the reasons why, and vice versa - so you can then determine whether I am a true LB fan or just the person you think I am (I would name that, but you might get more upset and accuse me making things up) :rolleyes:

But, whatever, I am out of this conversation, which to me is sad because it got some old timers back into the board. With cr*p like you just pulled on me, it is no wonder to me that people stay away from here.

[Sarah]

oh boo hoo. take your little ball and go home. i said it wasn't personal, jesus christ.

i'm not telling you what you can and can't talk about, so don't you dare tell me what conversations to refrain from. i asked you to clarify what the hell your point was, because it just seems like you're taking a dump on his career.

i don't care how much of his stuff you do or don't like. i don't care what shows you've seen or any of that. i'm just asking why you act like the sales are so important. it's not just this thread - you've had that sort of point a billion times in the past. i really don't see how it holds weight since the man himself acknowledges that they don't sell a ton, yet still continues to put records out there (at a very slow pace).

i didn't pull any crap over on you. i countered your opinion with "why" and you cried foul. whoop dee doo, but you still haven't gotten to the point.

[trackaghost]

The sales thing has always baffled me too, as I've said many times in the past, why it bothers anyone outside of the record company I have no clue. As long as Lindsey is still producing good music, the chart position doesn't concern me. I think maybe Lindsey was going for something more commercial with OOTC, but because the time was completely wrong for that album (grunge, alternative and indie music took over in the early 90s) it didn't do as well as say, Stevie's OSOTM. If he had released OOTC on the back of Tango, I'm pretty certain it would have been a bigger, breakthrough hit for him. The rest of his solo output screams artistic integrity over sales. Why would he put out an album even more oddball than Tusk with Law And Order, when he already had the band on his back for ruining potential Rumours-like sales with its weirdness, if he was out to prove himself as a big-selling solo artist?
Like I said in this thread, I think Lindsey has been jealous of Stevie in the past, but not of her sales, I think he's jealous of the recognition she gets as being the driving force of Fleetwood Mac's popularity. Her success as a solo artist only seemed to prove that in many people's minds that she was the reason the band became a million seller. Considering he was the producer, arranger, singer, songwriter, guitarist in the band, you can understand why he might be a little irked that this little blonde chick singer who can't even play an instrument properly and needs help to finish her songs, and his ex-girlfriend to boot, got more credit than him.

[michelej1]

The sales thing has always baffled me too, as I've said many times in the past, why it bothers anyone outside of the record company I have no clue. As long as Lindsey is still producing good music, the chart position doesn't concern me. I think maybe Lindsey was going for something more commercial with OOTC, but because the time was completely wrong for that album (grunge, alternative and indie music took over in the early 90s) it didn't do as well as say, Stevie's OSOTM. If he had released OOTC on the back of Tango, I'm pretty certain it would have been a bigger, breakthrough hit for him.

OOTC is a good example, because I think it was his most commercially accessible album and certainly got the best reviews. Lindsey was on tour for that when Clinton was elected, but Stevie still had to beg him to perform with FM. Was he just playing hard to get? Did he want to serenade the president with FM as much as Stevie did? I don't think so, because Stevie would have been open to a reunion after the inaugural performance, but it was Lindsey who was not. He could have rejoined the band then just to get his solo album more attention, but he didn't. I think he felt that things were just as bad in 1993 as they had been when he left and it was too painful to think about going back emotionally, whether it could have helped his solo career to do so or not.

And I don't say this to suggest Lindsey is selfless. He's selfish, but the things that give him selfish satisfaction are not what motivate other people.

At work, I was hiring an associate and the personnel agency sent me a bunch of Myers-Briggs profile results for different applicants. I don't think those kind of personality tests really help hire employees, but they do show how different people tick a different way. Extroverts are stimulated by things outside of themselves, social interaction and action. Introverts like ideas and concepts more; they're stirred up from inside. An extrovert's goals will be different from an introvert's. So, when Jason said that he has testicles and he thinks that Lindsey probably feels like he does, I really think that was a leap. Stevie and Chris both have breasts, but they didn't want the same things.

Chris says she felt self-conscious performing Songbird all alone in the spotlight, but Lindsey, Mick and John encouraged her to do it. The spotlight doesn't make Stevie feel self-conscious. I can't say what will make Chris happy by looking at Stevie or by looking at what would make me happy. As there are different people, I think there are different yardsticks to measure success.


Michele

[Sarah]

Like I said in this thread, I think Lindsey has been jealous of Stevie in the past, but not of her sales, I think he's jealous of the recognition she gets as being the driving force of Fleetwood Mac's popularity. Her success as a solo artist only seemed to prove that in many people's minds that she was the reason the band became a million seller. Considering he was the producer, arranger, singer, songwriter, guitarist in the band, you can understand why he might be a little irked that this little blonde chick singer who can't even play an instrument properly and needs help to finish her songs, and his ex-girlfriend to boot, got more credit than him.

I agree 100%. You worded that very well.

It's the "bittersweet" he talked about.

[Johnny Stew]

Stevie and Chris both have breasts
I believe the proper term is chesticles. ;)

[strandinthewind]

. . .
i didn't pull any crap over on you. i countered your opinion with "why" and you cried foul. whoop dee doo, but you still haven't gotten to the point.

As I stated a few times, my point was and is that I think the sales figures and release dates I posted, along with his actual comments during The Dance, indicate a pattern exists which shows that since Tusk, LB seemingly uses or used FM to regain a larger fanbase he could not sustain on his own, esp. after OOTC, which to me suggests that in the past he has cared about, inter alia, sales and I do not blame him. Who wouldn't want to be a success on their own terms? I think he would have loved nothing better than to have a wildly successful solo record that was also critically acclaimed - sort of an "I told you" kind of thing.

I think the patterns suggest he knows he cannot sell solo records and/or reach a wide audience without FM. So, he tries to time the solo records soon after a FM record. However, his genius and time issues of apparently his own making prevent him from achieving that goal and in two instances I know of, his delays (for whatever reason) seemingly caused his solo ventures to morph into FM projects, which he then complained about. I then said that he seems to have gotten over that in the case of his last record, which I think you must not have read.

Note - I think he also likes being in FM for a variety of other reasons notwithstanding his clever (to me) intent to use of the FM fame wave despite his apparent inability to execute the intent in a timely or effective manner in the past, which is what the chart was posted to show. I do not think he is a bad person for this, which is what I think you think I am saying.

That is all I said. I never said I know more than anyone else, which you accused me of. I was just speculating based on what I see - just like everyone else around here - and trying to support my view with what we think are the facts. Yet you accused me of "or is it just taking a dump on the man because you need something - anything - to back-and-forth with someone on?" - like I am some pathetic horrible freak who will argue with the wall. To these eyes, that was a personal attack. Last I checked, about five or six other people were in the conversation and we were all making good points in a civil and humorous manner, which is what you do on a discussion board. I also in no way berated him in that discussion other than to note that he takes his time, which I suggest is a fact everyone here acknowledges. I did say earlier I thought it was strange that people seemingly automatically believed LB was a saint and La Nicks was making all this drama up. But, people came back and told me that was not what they were saying. They agreed LB likely is a jerk part of the time, but they were over La Nicks airing the dirty laundry in public. I accepted that and we moved on.

So, I just do not get why you chose to say things like you said them. I think it was rude. But, whatever - let's move on.

[strandinthewind]

. . . I don't think so, because Stevie would have been open to a reunion after the inaugural performance, but it was Lindsey who was not . . . .

I do not think she would have been. JMO, but I think she was pretty much over FM by then, though her state of mind was questionable at best. Also, SA was in production and she had to release it and tour, which was a year to a year and a half at best :shrug: Also, she likely was still feuding with Mick about SS and 91's Timespace. But, who knows, she might have been open to it. Was there any press about it at the time. I do not remember any, but there was no net then. When did she actually officially leave FM. I think it was after the Clinton thing because Mick mentions that was her last performance.

I also think LB was so bitter about OOTC's lack of commercial success and TITN's touring success without him that he was still licking his wounds and concentrating on GOS, which was being recorded around that time or relatively soon thereafter and with other members of FM no less - so, he must have gotten over it :laugh: Then, he and La Nicks worked on Twisted, which I think was her way of reaching out to him when she got clean and realized what a pill she had been to everyone. I think she also thought Twisted might have been a hit they she, LB, and FM so desparately needed then.

. . . So, when Jason said that he has testicles and he thinks that Lindsey probably feels like he does, I really think that was a leap . . . .

It was meant as a joking reference to the male ego :rolleyes: :p

[strandinthewind]

The sales thing has always baffled me too, as I've said many times in the past, why it bothers anyone outside of the record company I have no clue.

If he had released OOTC on the back of Tango, I'm pretty certain it would have been a bigger, breakthrough hit for him.

I agree. That is what I think the charts I posted indicated. Look at how soon L&O was released after Tusk and it was a success. He has not timed the other stuff as well IMO. I also think GOS had huge commercial potential, espo. the brilliant Peacekeeper, but he seemingly waited to long after The Dance to get it out.


I think Lindsey has been jealous of Stevie in the past, but not of her sales, I think he's jealous of the recognition she gets as being the driving force of Fleetwood Mac's popularity. Her success as a solo artist only seemed to prove that in many people's minds that she was the reason the band became a million seller. Considering he was the producer, arranger, singer, songwriter, guitarist in the band, you can understand why he might be a little irked that this little blonde chick singer who can't even play an instrument properly and needs help to finish her songs, and his ex-girlfriend to boot, got more credit than him.

I agree. He even alludes to this and she has flat out said it. Interestingly, CM never really seemed jealous of La Nicks' success - or at least I do not remember hearing about it.

[michelej1]

I do not think she would have been. JMO, but I think she was pretty much over FM by then, though her state of mind was questionable at best.


In 1991 she was still saying that they all believed in dreams and fairy tales and they all hoped he would change his mind, but she knew he never would. Then, after the inauguration she said it looked like they wouldn't be getting back together, as if she had held out hope that they might, but it never came to fruition. In 1992 when asked if she would return to FM she said,

It isn't even up to me. It's really up to whether the rest of the people in Fleetwood Mac could gather. I'm pretty easy. If Lindsey and Chris and John and Mick sat here and said "We're going to do an album next year and we'd like to know if you would like to do it with us." I think my answer would probably be "well, of course, how could I not?" But, if it goes from manager to manager and phone call to phone call and lies and stupid things being said about everything that's going on that really isn't happening, then I might say no. But if they came to me in the right way and just sat there and said "we want to do this and we really want you to do it with us," then what could I say except yes just based on the love, caring and time that we have spent together.

Then in 1994 she said she'd consider going back to FM if she got a friendly, hopeful vibe from Lindsey, "which usually isn't there."

So, I think she would have done it in 1992

I also think LB was so bitter about OOTC's lack of commercial success and TITN's touring success without him that he was still licking his wounds and concentrating on GOS, which was being recorded around that time or relatively soon thereafter

OOTC had only recently come out at the time, which is why I said he could have used the inauguration to help promote it, but he didn't. He didn't start working on GOS until several years later.

Michele

[Hawkeye]

No she's just pissed that that album didn't sell and she blames him, not the poor quality of her songwriting. That's the bottomline.

She wrote an AMAZING song with Smile At You, granted 20 something years earlier but still it wasn't the quality of the songwriting that made it less then stellar, it was Lindsey's retooling of it.

[strandinthewind]

In 1991 she was still saying that they all believed in dreams and fairy tales and they all hoped he would change his mind, but she knew he never would. Then, after the inauguration she said it looked like they wouldn't be getting back together, as if she had held out hope that they might, but it never came to fruition. In 1992 when asked if she would return to FM she said,

It isn't even up to me. It's really up to whether the rest of the people in Fleetwood Mac could gather. I'm pretty easy. If Lindsey and Chris and John and Mick sat here and said "We're going to do an album next year and we'd like to know if you would like to do it with us." I think my answer would probably be "well, of course, how could I not?" But, if it goes from manager to manager and phone call to phone call and lies and stupid things being said about everything that's going on that really isn't happening, then I might say no. But if they came to me in the right way and just sat there and said "we want to do this and we really want you to do it with us," then what could I say except yes just based on the love, caring and time that we have spent together.

Then in 1994 she said she'd consider going back to FM if she got a friendly, hopeful vibe from Lindsey, "which usually isn't there."

So, I think she would have done it in 1992

Touche'

But, she would have had to wait until after SA was over, which was about 1995 and possibly longer if it had been a success and had she toured Europe. In hindsight, it was not a success.

[strandinthewind]

She wrote an AMAZING song with Smile At You, granted 20 something years earlier but still it wasn't the quality of the songwriting that made it less then stellar, it was Lindsey's retooling of it.

And - La Nicks delivers some of the most searing vocals to date on that SYW version.

As for her writing, I think the song TISL, TD, Space Needle (BEGS for a Sara like production) - Illume, and Bombay Sapphires are IMO all very well written songs. The thing about La Nicks is her final product is limited by the talent of the producer (save maybe for BS, which she says she produced herself). That lack of talent hurts her in the end and IMO.

[David]

And - La Nicks delivers some of the most searing vocals to date on that SYW version.Huh? Searing? Remind me not to eat steak at your house, pal.

As for her writing, I think the song TISL, TD, Space Needle (BEGS for a Sara like production) - Illume, and Bombay Sapphires are IMO all very well written songs.Yeah, Stevie always writes pretty good songs, & even in the old days when she wrote a bit of a clunker (like GATE & GARDEN), she could always put it over anyway with her singing.

She's a beautiful lady, my Stevie. :thumbsup:

In 1991 she was still saying that they all believed in dreams and fairy tales and they all hoped he would change his mind, but she knew he never would. Then, after the inauguration she said it looked like they wouldn't be getting back together, as if she had held out hope that they might, but it never came to fruition.Yeah, that was an unpleasant, embarrassed time for all (except for Christine, who has such good poise under social pressure). Remember that press conference the four of them gave? Stevie no show, but the others were mostly sweating bullets & shifting frequently on their bums, from one cheek to the other & then back again, vibrating their legs violently under the table, as they tried to explain to the reporters why Lindsey wasn't IN Fleetwood Mac & whether Mick's book was a tasteful, elegant précis or a sleazy, crass potboiler.

Man, those were tough days. I figured Fleetwood Mac was washed up.

But then they came back & they BUSTED OUR ASS WIDE OPEN DAMNIT. :shocked: :wavey:

Remember when one of you guys said that was Bea Arthur in my sig? What the hell would I want Bea Frikkin Arthur in my sig for?! :mad: Get real, lozerz. :wavey:

What did everyone have for dinner today? I had teriyaki chicken & roasted zucchini from the grill.

[DESTINYRU!ES]

Three words for both Lindsey and Steive: Get over yourself!

[Sarah]

I actually like the SYW Smile At You better than the demos. John's bass is so sick, it really makes the song stand out. Not at all like the demo, which was really just great because of her energy. The music's style on the demo was so Stevie solo generic.

That aside... why would Stevie let it get on the record if she thought Lindsey hacked it up? Her songs are her "children" she says.. and I really believe that she probably is exceptionally protective over them. She had to have liked the direction it went, otherwise it wouldn't be on the disc. :shrug:

[blackroses]

Huh? Searing? Remind me not to eat steak at your house, pal.

Yeah, Stevie always writes pretty good songs, & even in the old days when she wrote a bit of a clunker (like GATE & GARDEN), she could always put it over anyway with her singing.

She's a beautiful lady, my Stevie. :thumbsup:

Yeah, that was an unpleasant, embarrassed time for all (except for Christine, who has such good poise under social pressure). Remember that press conference the four of them gave? Stevie no show, but the others were mostly sweating bullets & shifting frequently on their bums, from one cheek to the other & then back again, vibrating their legs violently under the table, as they tried to explain to the reporters why Lindsey wasn't IN Fleetwood Mac & whether Mick's book was a tasteful, elegant précis or a sleazy, crass potboiler.

Man, those were tough days. I figured Fleetwood Mac was washed up.

But then they came back & they BUSTED OUR ASS WIDE OPEN DAMNIT. :shocked: :wavey:

Remember when one of you guys said that was Bea Arthur in my sig? What the hell would I want Bea Frikkin Arthur in my sig for?! :mad: Get real, lozerz. :wavey:

What did everyone have for dinner today? I had teriyaki chicken & roasted zucchini from the grill.:lol: I've been gone for a while (computer problems), and I return to find this redundant, bickering thread. At some point early on while trying to read it my eyes glazed over. Your posts are the only ones here that I have actually enjoyed David. ;) As for the topic, no comment. More than enough has already been said. Lordy!

[michelej1]

But, she would have had to wait until after SA was over, which was about 1995 and possibly longer if it had been a success and had she toured Europe. In hindsight, it was not a success.

We're talking about the inauguration in January 1993. She wasn't on tour in 1993. The Street Angel tour didn't start until mid July 1994. Michele

[carol7lynn]

The drama :shrug:sells tickets and records by keeping everyone all riled-up waiting for the other shoe to drop. Who knows they may be the best of friends "behind the mask.":rolleyes:

Personally, most of the songs from SYW were forgetable compared to their (Stevie/Lindsey) solo work. Seems the two would benefit the most from another FWM album/tour would be McVie :]and Fleetwood :]not Stevie or Lindsey. But, I do the love drama.

Carol-Lynn
SoCaGalNow:lol:

[strandinthewind]

We're talking about the inauguration in January 1993. She wasn't on tour in 1993. The Street Angel tour didn't start until mid July 1994. Michele

Right, but she was working of SA in 1993 and then into rehab - then the record was released in 1994 and the tour. So, I think she had all that going on which have delayed any reunion until January 1995 or so presuming she would want at least a month or so off after the 1994 SA tour. Unless she was willing to shelve SA altogether and go to the Mac. Interestingly, she likely could have negotiated with Warners to pay for SA as a stipend for her returning to the Mac; they could have used and put their spin on the SA songs :eek: Also, she could have agreed to it and LB and the gang could have worked without her in 1993 and 94 - but I think after TITN that was unlikely.

[strandinthewind]

Huh? Searing? Remind me not to eat steak at your house, pal . . . .

Don't worry, I'll serve you Crow :wavey:

[michelej1]

Right, but she was working of SA in 1993 and then into rehab.

She wasn't even working on SA yet in January 1993.

Later she commented: At the inauguration, I just realized I wanted it to be back the way it was, or I didn't want to be in it anymore. I couldn't continue to be in a Fleetwood Mac that didn't have Lindsey in it.

When Stevie says today that, but for the Klonopin, there might have been one more good FM album, I think she is saying that if she had been healthier there probably would have been an earlier band reunion than the one that emerged in 1997.


Michele

[chiliD]

... I think she is saying that if she had been healthier there probably would have been an earlier band reunion than the one that emerged in 1997.

Ok, let's get this out of the way.

Fleetwood Mac hasn't been "a band" since 1980. They might have touched on some "band-ness" between 1987-90 and a little bit during the 94/95 tour, but that's it. From '97 onwards, they're just solo artists who USED to be in a band together getting playing subpar music together for the big paycheck. Being a "band" is seemingly the furthest thing from their minds. There's no way that a "band vibe" can be achieved when over 50% of the musicians/singers on stage are card carrying union hired guns.

Sure, Lindsey kind of established a "band" vibe with Brett, Neale & Tako (and later the other guy whose name escapes me at the moment), and Mick has re-established a "band" vibe with Billy & Rick. But, "Fleetwood Mac"??? As a "band", they've been long dead.

LONG LIVE FLEETWOOD MAC!!

[strandinthewind]

She wasn't even working on SA yet in January 1993.

Later she commented: At the inauguration, I just realized I wanted it to be back the way it was, or I didn't want to be in it anymore. I couldn't continue to be in a Fleetwood Mac that didn't have Lindsey in it.

When Stevie says today that, but for the Klonopin, there might have been one more good FM album, I think she is saying that if she had been healthier there probably would have been an earlier band reunion than the one that emerged in 1997.


Michele

I believe she had started the process. I mean seemingly she did not hire poducer(s), rent the studio, produce that record, go to rehab for like 47 days, then spend a couple of months trying to redo SA, and then release it for packaging, etc. - all in a year. Who knows though - maybe she did. But, seemingly SA must have been at least in her mind and in its infancy in late Jan. 1993 :shrug: That is why I think the earliest a FM reunion could have occured was at the beginning of 1995 assuming she was contractually bound to see SA to its fruition. I am not saying it would not have accurred then, but it did not. Rather, the rest of the band around that time (1995 or so) was working with LB in some capacity on GOS and then LB worked with La Nicks on Twisted around then as well.

Here is a quote illustrating generally the timing - the inital record was finished by November 03 - surely she must have been working on it in Jan. 03 - but maybe not though she says it was "in the last two years of the Klonopin --

TONY: What was blocking you?

Stevie: Well, I know what was blocking me. First of all, in the beginning of 1994, I went into rehab to stop taking Klonopin, which I'd been taking for almost eight years. Street Angel was done in the last two years of the Klonopin, when it had really kicked in to the point that it took away my soul and creativity. The record was finished in November; I went into rehab on the 12th of December and got out on the 27th of January. So I listened to the record--I'm off all the drugs--and I knew it was terrible. It had cost a fortune. I tried really hard to fix it, but I couldn't. So I had to go and do interviews for it, just like I'm doing right now, and it was everything I could do not to say to the interviewers, "I hate this record." When I had dinner with Tom, I was having a hard time getting over the Street Angel experience. I was just really sad. That dinner made all the difference. I give Tom all the credit in the world for this record.

http://www.nicksfix.com/interview_time_out_ny_apr2001.htm

[Villavic]

Ok, let's get this out of the way.

Fleetwood Mac hasn't been "a band" since 1980. They might have touched on some "band-ness" between 1987-90 and a little bit during the 94/95 tour, but that's it. From '97 onwards, they're just solo artists who USED to be in a band together getting playing subpar music together for the big paycheck. Being a "band" is seemingly the furthest thing from their minds. There's no way that a "band vibe" can be achieved when over 50% of the musicians/singers on stage are card carrying union hired guns.

Sure, Lindsey kind of established a "band" vibe with Brett, Neale & Tako (and later the other guy whose name escapes me at the moment), and Mick has re-established a "band" vibe with Billy & Rick. But, "Fleetwood Mac"??? As a "band", they've been long dead.

LONG LIVE FLEETWOOD MAC!!

When artists get lot of money and fame, the "band vibe" is usually lost. Definitely is not the same vibe like when they are just good fellows playing in dad's garage. When a rock band gets fame and wealth, the band is reinvented and enter more members: managers, lawyers, record company managers, wives or husbands, etc.

Remember Eagles, Beatles, Pink Floyd, etc. Lot of bands have suffered this kind of metamorphosis. Most of them didn't survive it, but those who did, are converted in a "almost" or "pseudo" band as Chili says. Imho they are still kind of band, but yes most of the essence is missed

[michelej1]

Ok, let's get this out of the way.

Fleetwood Mac hasn't been "a band" since 1980. They might have touched on some "band-ness" between 1987-90 and a little bit during the 94/95 tour, but that's it. From '97 onwards, they're just solo artists who USED to be in a band together getting playing subpar music together for the big paycheck. Being a "band" is seemingly the furthest thing from their minds.

I don't know Chili. You don't think that whatever it took to put the short-lived Dance tour together required band-ness? I mean, what it takes to hammer out the new arrangement for SYLM seems like a band to me. There was a unity there, I thought.

I believe she had started the process. I mean seemingly she did not hire poducer(s), rent the studio, produce that record, go to rehab for like 47 days, then spend a couple of months trying to redo SA, and then release it for packaging, etc. - all in a year.
http://www.nicksfix.com/interview_time_out_ny_apr2001.htm

I don't know. When you consider everything she did in 1987, Tango songs, the tour with Petty, and rehab and then Cage, I don't think her 1993 schedule was all that crowded.

Michele

[SteveMacD]

I don't know Chili. You don't think that whatever it took to put the short-lived Dance tour together required band-ness? I mean, what it takes to hammer out the new arrangement for SYLM seems like a band to me. There was a unity there, I thought.

NO!!! That only lasted a few months. A band is a full-time thing. I won't speake for ChiliD, but I have a hunch his feelings aren't too different from my own. But, by 1997 their careers collectively went down the crapper. Mick, John, and Christine bombed with a new Fleetwood Mac, Lindsey bombed on his first major outing as a solo artist, and Stevie bombed as an established solo artist. Combined, they were lucky to be selling what Bare Trees or Mystery To Me sold prior to 1975! Now, I'm not saying that was the only reason they got back together, I'm just saying so-and-so starts looking less like an areshole when your career is tanking. Except for Christine, who just wanted to retire on a respectable note (mission accomplished).

[strandinthewind]

. . . I don't know. When you consider everything she did in 1987, Tango songs, the tour with Petty, and rehab and then Cage, I don't think her 1993 schedule was all that crowded.

Michele

True - but then there are these:

USA Today
January 8, 1993

Yesterday's Back For Fleetwood Mac

"President Clinton is trying to reunite the country - bless his heart he is reuniting Fleetwood Mac - and we wouldn't miss it for anything."

That's Stevie Nicks, ex-member of the band whose 1977 hit Don't Stop, penned by Christine McVie, has become Clinton's theme song.

The five who played in Mac during its pop heyday will reunite to play that tune at the Presidential Gala Jan. 19 at the Capital Centre in Landover, Md. (9-11 p.m. ET/PT on CBS).

"We're all excited and very honored," Nicks told USA TODAY. "It makes all 18 years (in the band) worthwhile."

She admits it was tricky getting everyone back together - two years ago Nicks was not speaking to then-band members Lindsey Buckingham and Mick Fleetwood.

"When they asked, it was a very touchy thing, especially getting Lindsey to agree. But I think everyone took a second look at life," she says, "and this is such a great honor. It is very endearing for someone to pick a song of yours as their theme."

Nicks is recuperating from sinus surgery and is in the midst of putting together a new album, but says she'll get on that D.C.-bound plane Jan. 17. "I've never failed (the band) yet. I'll die trying," she says.

Although she says Fleetwood Mac is not rusty -- "We could go onstage tonight. When you're together 18 years, those harmonies are just there" - rehearsals are planned in Los Angeles next week and more in Washington Inaugural week.

"For the president, we'll be the best," Nicks says. "He definitely loves music. I hope we meet him." Maybe she'll see him at Inaugural balls or glitzy parties while she's in town?

"I would love to, but we haven't been invited."

Hmmm. Are you listening Mr. Clinton?

-- Shawn Sell

_______________________________

USA Today
January 25, 1993

Do stop thinking about tomorrow, says Stevie Nicks, eager to dispel rumors Fleetwood Mac's reunion is permanent. Performing at the Presidential Gala "was a magical moment for all of us," says Nicks. "(But) I have no desire for any further active involvement," including the band's scheduled Super Bowl appearance. Would she reconsider? "If the president should call again."
___________________________________________________________

Mick and La Nicks and La Nicks and LB and LB and FM were all so in and out of anger at that time I am rather glad that any talk of a reunion never went past that stage.

Interestingly, during The Dance, Stevie is still aware of the issues because she talks about how she and LB are not really hanging out and that the time on the stage is the time they get to hash it all out, though she did say those efforts on all asides and from everyone made The Dance a pleasant experience overall, esp. the performances, which were great IMO.

[michelej1]

Now, I'm not saying that was the only reason they got back together, I'm just saying so-and-so starts looking less like an areshole when your career is tanking. Except for Christine, who just wanted to retire on a respectable note (mission accomplished).

Oh, I don't think desperation was the only motivation. I think there was actually strong sentiment involved, monetary incentive notwithstanding.

Michele

[strandinthewind]

Oh, I don't think desperation was the only motivation. I think there was actually strong sentiment involved, monetary incentive notwithstanding.

Michele

Me too. I also think that La Nicks and LB's unresolved issues were way in the front of the line for them. I also think they briefly got back together during the tour and it ended badly, hence the song Thrown Down. But, that is just speculation.

[michelej1]

I don't mean to sound naive, but when an audience feels chemistry, I believe that the people emitting it must feel something as well. When Mick says that he doesn't know what his life would have been like without the others, I truly don't think he's just saying that because Rumours sold a zillion records.
I don't think he just says he likes the 1975 line up because that's the one that turned out to be most profitable for him. I think there had to have been, still is, an emotional connection. Fans romanticize it and probably exaggerate it, but I still think it exists at core.

When that Vegas Beatles act opened up, Paul and Ringo went on Larry King and Paul reached out and stroked Ringo's hand to simulate what his last moments with George Harrison had been like and, boy, that small gesture overwhelmed me.

I don't think you can share and survive all that excess, turmoil, anger, drama and triumph with a finite group of others, without a bond forming.

I'm not saying it's a lovey dovey thing. I'm just saying its there, good, bad or indifferent. And it's impenetrable. I believed in The Dance.

Michele

[strandinthewind]

^^^

I agree. The Dance was just something out of a dream. SYW had many moments as well, though they were different than the intensity of The Dance. When La Nicks locked eyes with LB during SG, it gave me chills. Ditto for that Madison Sara clip I posted awhile back. And, that intensity has lasted for the vast majority of the fans for all these years and despite doing it every night in the same basic manner. To me, that is cool. I wonder if they can sustain the love affair on stage now. If history shows anything it is that they can.

[jbrownsjr]

What evidence do you have to support that claim?

If he was using it as a "vehicle for his solo stuff," he would've cashed in on the attention by releasing a solo album in 98 when it would've been most lucrative. I also don't see how it was a money thing. It's not like he had family to support at that point and as far as I know he never had the financial difficulties that Mick had.

You're kidding right? Besides it being pretty obvious around the GOS rollover clips... The guy just about admitted he needed the FM "vehicle" his word, to keep the accountants happy.

[jbrownsjr]

And this proves what?

I'm well aware that she toured extensively for Crystal Visions. But Crystal Visions is just a compilation and not a true solo album. Again, she's still playing the same old songs.

As for Trouble In Shangri-La being as good or better than her previous work, we'll agree to disagree. Those who know me on these boards know what I think of that particular album.

Oh please...!! it's a VEGAS ACT!! There's no question!!

[jbrownsjr]

Yes, I know what you mean about BTM. But by the time you get to 1993, Christine had come full circle again. Christine didn't agree with Dave Mason in the Time tour, didn't know why Mick kept trying to mend a broken vase. When asked who she would have had other than Dave, she said:

Lindsey Buckingham, I think he was the most superlative guitar player this band will ever have. A true shining light. After Lindsey, everybody else seems a little palid. I'm not talking talent, just chemistry for Fleetwood Mac.

She also said in 1993 that her biggest regrets in FM were not having had a #1single and Lindsey leaving: "Not that I’m criticizing the guys we got in to replace him-Rick Vito and Billy Burnette. They’re both fine musicians. But I do regret that Lindsey’s gone. There was a creative chemistry there which, when it was right, was absolutely amazing. Our individual approaches to music were so different, but there was this point where they met that was quite magical. To find that quality with other musicians is very difficult. It’s a once in a lifetime thing."


Michele


Nobody agrees with me, but I believe LB and CM has a solid relationship until CM left the band. And I believe that his anger after she left was about him wanting her there, and money.

[David]

Nobody agrees with me, but I believe LB and CM has a solid relationship until CM left the band. And I believe that his anger after she left was about him wanting her there, and money.I do, I agree with you, brown. :wavey:

[David]

I agree. The Dance was just something out of a dream.I wish I liked it.

When La Nicks locked eyes with LB during SG, it gave me chills. Why do you call Nicks "La Nicks" all the time?

[strandinthewind]

^^

I agree with you that LB and CM had a solid relationship, though I think he perhaps lived a little in fear of her :laugh:

I disagree though that her departure after the 40 Dance dates caused an long lasting riff. I do not think that LB and CM ever really had any kind of relationship outside of FM - like say, going to the mall or lunch and hanging out. But, who knows, maybe they did things like that. So, once the inital shock and perhaps bitterness of her decision faded, they just went into nothing. But, others have theories about the band being bitter about CM during SYW. I never really took any of LB's comments as snipy. I think most of them were him trying to describe the new dynamic of the band, which inherently had to acknowledge her departure. But, others saw them as that, so maybe they were.

Interestingly, I do not think I can recall that La Nicks ever slammed Chris. She has pretty much always spoke lovingly of her, like a kid sister.

[strandinthewind]

I wish I liked it.

The music is actually comparatively mediocre to my ears. However, the emotion just works for me.

Why do you call Nicks "La Nicks" all the time?

Force of habit. We used to do that when I was a kid. Remember, I was reared in the fairly French environment of Southwest Louisiana. I mean no disrespect by it though.

[michelle2677]

I wish I liked it.



you are as cold as ice.

[David]

The music is actually comparatively mediocre to my ears. However, the emotion just works for me.The emotion work but the music be mediocre? What you mean by "music"? You mean songs? You mean playing? You mean what, Le Strand?

I mean no disrespect by it though.I know -- it's just a trendy thing.

Would you call me Le Dave? I like the sound of that!

[David]

you are as cold as ice.I do not believe this.

[michelle2677]

I do not believe this.



not at all. why would you post this, david1?

or. le dave?

[David]

Interestingly, I do not think I can recall that La Nicks ever slammed Chris. She has pretty much always spoke lovingly of her, like a kid sister.In 1982, Stevie say to one rag that Christie not play organ well, that she play like baby with fat fingers on keys.

Chrstie get quite mad & throw drink in Stevie's face ... CRRRrrrrraaaaack! (No just kidding about that last part)

[David]

not at all. why would you post this, david1?

or. le dave?i do not understand why not.
er....why, not? Not why.

Derrrr.

[strandinthewind]

The emotion work but the music be mediocre? What you mean by "music"? You mean songs? You mean playing? You mean what, Le Strand?

I think the addition of the extra five+ musicians and vocals watered the music down. It was, however, a little better seeing it live in Atlanta. I missed the wilder and rawer edge that the Mirage and before eras represented. Plus, it appeared to me that the songs were slowed down and keys were lowered. So, there was that. But, like pizza, even when FM is bad, they are still pretty good :laugh:

As for the emotion, other than LB's Big Love and, perhaps, ISA, I found the music mostly rote and emotionless when compared to earlier shows. But, the sparks a flyin between LB and La Nicks more than compensated to me.

Would you call me Le Dave? I like the sound of that!

perhaps - though I could see you, in the right light, as La Belle Fleur; it would require mirabu though :eek: :p

[strandinthewind]

In 1982, Stevie say to one rag that Christie not play organ well, that she play like baby with fat fingers on keys . . . .

Actually, I believe the exact quote was La Nicks placed grains of corn of the keys and CM pecked away with her large beak :angel:

[michelle2677]

i do not understand why not.
er....why, not? Not why.

Derrrr.

to why or to why not, that is the question.

[michelle2677]

Actually, I believe the exact quote was La Nicks placed grains of corn of the keys and CM pecked away with her large beak :angel:


ouch.



:lol:

[strandinthewind]

ouch.



:lol:

jbrownsjr and I were getting too chummy there :mad:

Of course, CM laced the Nicks tambo with coke packets so every time she shook, coke flew everwhere - see the ending of the SOTM in the Mirage video for her trying to sniff it all at one time :laugh: :cool:

[David]

I think the addition of the extra five+ musicians and vocals watered the music down.GEE YA THINK??

I missed the wilder and rawer edge that the Mirage and before eras represented.NO! Oh say it ISN'T SO!!!!!
http://www.alanhandle.com/surprise.jpg

:wavey: :woohoo: :shocked:
Le Strand, who be your favorite guest on the old McLaughlin Group?

[David]

Actually, I believe the exact quote was La Nicks placed grains of corn of the keys and CM pecked away with her large beak :angel:
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_15/112117068368cMm4.jpg
i do not believe this.

picture christie pecker at the corn. it not stay still on hammond keys -- waterfall keys. they fall off. :eek: :angel: :]

[strandinthewind]

[SIZE="5"] . . . Le Strand, who be your favorite guest on the old McLaughlin Group?

Well, after the unfortunate restraining order I had to take out on Eleanor Clift, I am unsure it would happen. But, if it did, I would say Gorbachev and Garbo - at the same time.

[David]

to why or to why not, that is the question.why carrie not ask me to join other board? :confused:

http://img.qj.net/uploads/articles_module2/74156/bunny_sad_qjpreviewth.jpg

[TrueFaith77]

Not be redundant, but I did a breakdown of the back-and-forth in the press b/w Sheryl Crow, Lindsey, and Stevie. Hope it's helpful (even though they're not the original sources. . .):

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=35733

[michelle2677]

why carrie not ask me to join other board? :confused:

http://img.qj.net/uploads/articles_module2/74156/bunny_sad_qjpreviewth.jpg


whatchoo mean?? :shrug: :D

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a395/Michelle2677/other/bunny3.jpg

[michelej1]

Nobody agrees with me, but I believe LB and CM has a solid relationship until CM left the band. And I believe that his anger after she left was about him wanting her there, and money.


I don't think it was about money, but I do think he wanted her there. Stevie said something like, 'Lindsey decides whether or not he wants to be in the band and them the rest of them said yes or not. Christine said no.' I think that Lindsey did see it as a rejection of sorts and I think it bothered him, even though he said that he was the one who understood when she wanted to cut the Dance short. He said everyone else was a little put off, because he supported Chris in that. So, he should have been the first to understand when she didn't come back for SYW, but I think his feelings were hurt.

Michele

[michelej1]

You're kidding right? Besides it being pretty obvious around the GOS rollover clips... The guy just about admitted he needed the FM "vehicle" his word, to keep the accountants happy.

The only time I think Lindsey mentioned his accountants was when he talked about how hard it was to get funding for the OOTC tour. So, he paid for a lot of it himself and said his accountants wouldn't let him do that again. I don't think he needs the FM money at all to live, but I think he does use it to keep fueling his non-profitable solo work, which is why he could go on that extensive UTS tour, flying around on private jets. SYW gave him the ability to tour so long on UTS.

Michele

[michelej1]

Do stop thinking about tomorrow, says Stevie Nicks, eager to dispel rumors Fleetwood Mac's reunion is permanent. Performing at the Presidential Gala "was a magical moment for all of us," says Nicks. "(But) I have no desire for any further active involvement," including the band's scheduled Super Bowl appearance. Would she reconsider? "If the president should call again."


I think as they approached the whole Clinton thing, she was hoping that it could work again, but then at the inauguration itself, she realized that it wouldn't-- at least not at that point, so that hope fled. She said,

After the inauguration, it didn't look good for the five of us getting back together. So, if Lindsey wasn't ever going to be in the band again, then why should I be in the band anymore? We went in together. He had already quit six years before, and I hung in there hoping everything might work out again. I quit touring, but it's not like I ever really left. I just didn't want to be a part of it if it didn't include all of us.


Michele

[strandinthewind]

^^^

I agree, I think she wanted the Clinton thing to ignite FM.

But my point was she still had to complete SA and then do the tour. So, any reunion could not have involved her coming into the project until about 1995, which was about two years later. LB shelved his solo record for The Dance. So, it is possible she could have sold SA to Warners and morphed it into a new FM record, but that would have cost Warners a pretty penny and a new record really is not the same thing as the rehash of The Dance. It could have worked though as OSOTM sold respectably and the notion of a FM back in presumably fit form would easily have covered the cost of SA and any lost tour rev. Remember, though she was waxed out on drugs and her star somewhat diminished in the world of grunge and boy bands, SA had not flopped yet and she sold the rest of her records in ostensibly the same or similar condition. But, I doubt she would have done that as it likely was too complicated and she never shelved or morphed a solo record in the past. Again, just speculating for the sake of discussion.

[strandinthewind]

The only time I think Lindsey mentioned his accountants was when he talked about how hard it was to get funding for the OOTC tour. So, he paid for a lot of it himself and said his accountants wouldn't let him do that again. I don't think he needs the FM money at all to live, but I think he does use it to keep fueling his non-profitable solo work, which is why he could go on that extensive UTS tour, flying around on private jets. SYW gave him the ability to tour so long on UTS.

Michele

Thus, my point that he does go back to FM for the wave of fame, which includes money. This fuels his solo stuff. I am not saying this is the only reason he goes back, but it is one of them IMO - and IMO it is not a bad thing. As for TITN and leaving on the eve of the tour, I think he just got fed up with FM and IMO he realized he could no longer control the apparently sober La Nicks. I think their relationship was what drove him out and it had less to do with his relationship with the others. Just speculation though as I was not in the room :cool:

[David]

I think as they approached the whole Clinton thing, she was hoping that it could work again, but then at the inauguration itself, she realized that it wouldn't-- at least not at that point, so that hope fled. She said,

After the inauguration, it didn't look good for the five of us getting back together. So, if Lindsey wasn't ever going to be in the band again, then why should I be in the band anymore? We went in together. He had already quit six years before, and I hung in there hoping everything might work out again. I quit touring, but it's not like I ever really left. I just didn't want to be a part of it if it didn't include all of us. Which of course was completely at variance from her attitude in 1987, 1988, 1989, &c., when she spoke of how nice it was to be in a band again where everybody was friendly & bandmates were real mates & had dinner at one another's homes & blah blah.

[strandinthewind]

Which of course was completely at variance from her attitude in 1987, 1988, 1989, &c., when she spoke of how nice it was to be in a band again where everybody was friendly & bandmates were real mates & had dinner at one another's homes & blah blah.

I think the two are not mutually exclusive. She said she enjoyed the company of Rick and Billy, the newness of it, and that she worked well and harmoniously with them (which she considered a welcome change) - all while hoping that someday LB might return in a better mood. I do not see how giving it your best effort in that regard is "completely at variance" with missing LB and wanting him back a changed man. I think it was more like "this is the situation and I am dealing with it and having a good time doing so but I love LB and wish he had not left, but he did so what are you going to do?"

[David]

I think the two are not mutually exclusive. She said she enjoyed the company of Rick and Billy, the newness of it, and that she worked well and harmoniously with them (which she considered a welcome change) - all while hoping that someday LB might return in a better mood.Didn't sound like that to me.

Stevie told Timothy White that "the creative ties are behind us."

""Mark my words, tomorrow, in this very room, is the final reckoning, & if Lindsey Buckingham dares to insist his own projects are more important than the future of Fleetwood Mac--that's it! New beginnings have always been the best part of this band. I swear to you now: If there needs to be a new Fleetwood Mac, we'll start all over again!"

"If that man tries to hand us up, he is not gonna have the last laugh!"

Stevie figured Lindsey was gone for good -- as did Lindsey himself.

[michelej1]

Stevie figured Lindsey was gone for good -- as did Lindsey himself.

And when she wanted him back, it wasn't as a changed man. Since he wouldn't even answer her phone calls when she contacted him, she knew that he hadn't changed. She'd just changed her mind.



Michele

[strandinthewind]

And when she wanted him back, it wasn't as a changed man. Since he wouldn't even answer her phone calls when she contacted him, she knew that he hadn't changed. She'd just changed her mind.



Michele

Well, he worked on Twisted with her and that was relatively uneventful - at least I do not remember either of them talking about it that way. So, there was some change. Then, after he was stalling about rejoining, she called him about whether he was going to do The Dance. If not, she was off to another solo record. Presumably he took that call because she got an answer. then, he said working with John, CM, and Mick on GOS was went well. So, there was that change. So, it seemingly was less dramatic than in the early 90's when they were angrier. I guess time has a way of healing all wounds. But, even in The Dance interviews she often remarks about how they are older and wiser and sober - so it was easier not to let the little things set them off and take them to a bad place. They were all careful not to do that. I often wonder is all that treading lightly was mostly only directed toward LB by eveyone or if it meant the whole band with each other.

[strandinthewind]

"if Lindsey Buckingham dares to insist his own projects are more important than the future of Fleetwood Mac--that's it!

I think the use of "if" in that sentence could be interpreted to mean that if LB does not do the conditional in the phrase, he is welcome back :shrug: In the end, I think they were all just too angry with each other prior to 1995 to have worked together no matter how much any of them would have liked it.

[jbrownsjr]

The only time I think Lindsey mentioned his accountants was when he talked about how hard it was to get funding for the OOTC tour. So, he paid for a lot of it himself and said his accountants wouldn't let him do that again. I don't think he needs the FM money at all to live, but I think he does use it to keep fueling his non-profitable solo work, which is why he could go on that extensive UTS tour, flying around on private jets. SYW gave him the ability to tour so long on UTS.

Michele

You're right... I remember that era when he talked about the accountants during OTTC I saw him at a tiny little club called Peabody's in Cleveland..

... I also remember him talking about the record company execs and how they were strongly urging him to roll GOS to a FM record. GOS was gonna be released how many years before SYW actually was.. He admitted in those interviews that it was strictly business. Sound familiar? He talks about working on his solo album that he delayed in 1997 that was just about finished.... He then did the Dance after citing in 1987 that he was leaving FM so he could explore his own music... Funny how only one LB solo album was released from 1987 to 1997 after re-joining. That's hardly exploring in my book. Also, Funny how he changed his mind.. again...

And then again I don't blame him... He doesn't sell despite doing good work... He needs FM and he realized it (over and over)... and when he is forced to admit it he lashes out.... angry bitter... it's all good, he's pissed... I get it clear as day....

[jbrownsjr]

I do, I agree with you, brown. :wavey:

well blow my nose!!! :woohoo: (said with a southern accent)

[jbrownsjr]

^^

I agree with you that LB and CM had a solid relationship, though I think he perhaps lived a little in fear of her :laugh:

I disagree though that her departure after the 40 Dance dates caused an long lasting riff. I do not think that LB and CM ever really had any kind of relationship outside of FM - like say, going to the mall or lunch and hanging out. But, who knows, maybe they did things like that. So, once the inital shock and perhaps bitterness of her decision faded, they just went into nothing. But, others have theories about the band being bitter about CM during SYW. I never really took any of LB's comments as snipy. I think most of them were him trying to describe the new dynamic of the band, which inherently had to acknowledge her departure. But, others saw them as that, so maybe they were.

Interestingly, I do not think I can recall that La Nicks ever slammed Chris. She has pretty much always spoke lovingly of her, like a kid sister.

Oh they were snippy... He was pissed because with the fab 5 marketing, he gets millions more from less shows... You bet he was pissed at her... I'd be pissed at someone that cost me that kind of scratch too!!

[jbrownsjr]

In 1982, Stevie say to one rag that Christie not play organ well, that she play like baby with fat fingers on keys.

Chrstie get quite mad & throw drink in Stevie's face ... CRRRrrrrraaaaack! (No just kidding about that last part)

hahahahaha

her fingers are quite long however!! :]

[jbrownsjr]

Thus, my point that he does go back to FM for the wave of fame, which includes money. This fuels his solo stuff. I am not saying this is the only reason he goes back, but it is one of them IMO - and IMO it is not a bad thing. As for TITN and leaving on the eve of the tour, I think he just got fed up with FM and IMO he realized he could no longer control the apparently sober La Nicks. I think their relationship was what drove him out and it ad less to do with his relationship with the others. Just speculation though as I was not in the room :cool:

If LB could survive on his own the way SN has... FM would not even be on his radar... Not many agree with me on that either David...

[michelej1]

Oh they were snippy... He was pissed because with the fab 5 marketing, he gets millions more from less shows... You bet he was pissed at her... I'd be pissed at someone that cost me that kind of scratch too!!

I don't think they would have gotten more money per show with Christine on board. I think he would have ended up with less money, because he would have had to split it 5 ways, rather than 4 ways. Seeing as how they were one of the top tours in 2003 -- even though SYW was not popular like The Dance was, I don't see how they could have done any better with Chris on board. I think he wanted Chris on the tour though, when she wouldn't tour, I think he took it personally. I think they all did.

I also think that he had SYHA and BTLH on the album because of Chris, not just because they were more commerical (like the song "Say You Will" was, as well) but because they had harmonies that he wanted. Stevie said she had to ask him was that Chris on the album or was that just him sounding like Chris. I think he tried to inject Chris in.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

I don't think they would have gotten more money per show with Christine on board. I think he would have ended up with less money, because he would have had to split it 5 ways, rather than 4 ways. Seeing as how they were one of the top tours in 2003 -- even though SYW was not popular like The Dance was, I don't see how they could have done any better with Chris on board. I think he wanted Chris on the tour though, when she wouldn't tour, I think he took it personally. I think they all did.

I also think that he had SYHA and BTLH on the album because of Chris, not just because they were more commerical (like the song "Say You Will" was, as well) but because they had harmonies that he wanted. Stevie said she had to ask him was that Chris on the album or was that just him sounding like Chris. I think he tried to inject Chris in.

Michele

I disagree... Every single news bit I read mentioned that they were short McVie. I'm not saying it hurt them fan wise... I'm saying it hurt them marketing wise... I also would add that Christine actually became more popular and appreciated after she left.

FM had to extend the tour to satisfy their sponsors and were very tired and not wanting to extend it. They won't tell you that obviously. I also believe that execs were a little more aprehensive from a marketing stand point that the fab 5 were no longer on the new album. As in the Dance, WB were throwing money at FM. The marketing was way more 1st rate. I also think that LB saw himself doing even more work with CM gone.

[strandinthewind]

If LB could survive on his own the way SN has... FM would not even be on his radar... Not many agree with me on that either David...

I think after Tusk you are correct though the allure of Nicks IMO factored heavily into it.

[SteveMacD]

I don't think he needs the FM money at all to live, but I think he does use it to keep fueling his non-profitable solo work.

Lindsey Buckingham is a not-for-profit.

[michelej1]

I disagree... Every single news bit I read mentioned that they were short McVie.

Marketing wise, they could have done one of those, "for the first time together in 6 years" thing, which . . . I'm not sure not doing it hurt them in venues or made it more difficult to promote the tour.

I think Christine's absence hurt more internally than it did with promotion or concert revenue.

I would agree with you that Lindsey had to work harder with Christine gone. Also, I don't know whether he realizes this or not, but he actually has more leverage over Stevie with Chris there than he does when she's not. So, it would have been better for him.

Michele

[SteveMacD]

Funny how only one LB solo album was released from 1987 to 1997 after re-joining. That's hardly exploring in my book.

Funnier still is that Peter Green came out of retirement in 1996, released eight albums from 1996 through 2003 with the Splinter Group, and retired again, and yet he's still considered to be the recluse.

[jbrownsjr]

Funnier still is that Peter Green came out of retirement in 1996, released eight albums from 1996 through 2003 with the Splinter Group, and retired again, and yet he's still considered to be the recluse.

LOL!! He doesn't bitch about music, he actually spends his time making it.

[Maccafan5000]

You're right... I remember that era when he talked about the accountants during OTTC I saw him at a tiny little club called Peabody's in Cleveland..



I can't believe he played at Peabody's!!! It is indeed a tiny little club, and I have played there a few times myself. If I had been just a bit older I would've been there.

....Damn It.

[jbrownsjr]

I can't believe he played at Peabody's!!! It is indeed a tiny little club, and I have played there a few times myself. If I had been just a bit older I would've been there.

....Damn It.

He was amazing that night... I was like 10 feet away from him...

[estranged4life]

Stevie Nicks Says Issues With Lindsey Buckingham Threaten Her Involvement With Fleetwood Mac

Stevie Nicks says that ongoing problems with bandmate and one-time boyfriend Lindsey Buckingham may signal the end for her in Fleetwood Mac.

Nicks, who'll be hitting the road next week for a string of spring dates, told Q magazine that the band's tentative tour for next year is up in their air due to personality conflicts, revealing, "Lindsey knows that I did not have a great time during (2003's) Say You Will (album and tour)... He was not being very nice or friendly to me and at my old age I'm like 'Please! I can't do it.'I have a great, great, (solo) band... The only reason for me to do it is for my heart."

She went on to say, "I've always loved being in Fleetwood Mac and I'm never going to be the one to squash it... So if Lindsey Buckingham wants to be the Lindsey Buckingham that he was a long time ago -- and be happy with me and enjoy what I do, and enjoy my celebrity and just appreciate the marvelous gift of being in this elite band -- then I will do it again. I will also walk away so fast that the palm tree tops will fall on his head."

or are there others who are sick of Stevie's CONSTANT whining over LB? Hey lady, get over it, get over the man and GET the $#&%^# on with your life...Sheesh!!! Frikkin' broken record!

[mgikallaroundme]

or are there others who are sick of Stevie's CONSTANT whining over LB? Hey lady, get over it, get over the man and GET the $#&%^# on with your life...Sheesh!!! Frikkin' broken record!

Oh how they both love, love, love to play that broken record! Why anyone over the age of 12 still listens is beyond me. :lol:

They must believe all fans are as stupid as the ones who hang out 24/7 on the internet.

As long as they keep it spinning in every possible direction nobody will ever find out! Yeah! That's the ticket!:lol:

[kennation]

Ok... We have bashed Stevie for a bit, so let one of us be devil's advocate. (NOT TO STEP ON ANYONE'S TOES OR GET INTO A HEATED INTERNET BASH SESSION- That is NOT my intention...)

Stevie is a HUGE part of FM's success. On a lesser scale, COMMERCIALLY, Lindsey is also. Stevie brings them in.

I am not sure that she says these things to be dramatic. I think she says these things because it is hard for her in that band. She is the only one with a LARGE solo career and I think it makes her paranoid. I am sure that it makes the others a little hostile.

Lindsey seems tough to deal with. Stevie is tough to deal with. You know who I feel sorry for? John. Bless his heart he has to hear all that constantly.

I have been where Stevie is. Sometimes you gotta say, "I WILL LEAVE." Sometimes you gotta through that card. She has several times, but it wrangles the fellas attention.

AS for the shows being more intense without Stevie? I do NOT share that opinion. I find that the reason we love this band is because of EACH member. It is hard enoguh without Christine. I WOULD NOT FOLLOW THIS BAND WITHOUT STEVIE. I would not follow the band without Mick. To me, each member, for good or bad, brings magic and atmosphere. So we should view her comments in a different way: the result of 30+ years of insanity.

LONG MAY OUR BAND ROCK! - TOGETHER!!!

[SteveMacD]

Lindsey seems tough to deal with. Stevie is tough to deal with. You know who I feel sorry for? John. Bless his heart he has to hear all that constantly.
There's a reason he goes MIA whenever the Mac is on hiatus...

[Regina]

Ok... We have bashed Stevie for a bit, so let one of us be devil's advocate. (NOT TO STEP ON ANYONE'S TOES OR GET INTO A HEATED INTERNET BASH SESSION- That is NOT my intention...)




Funny. Digging up a hotbed of a post that no one has brought up in nearly 8 months doesn't sound like you're ready to sit in a circle holding hands and singing Kumbaya to me.

[SandyMac]

My heart skipped a beat when I first read this subject line and realized it is from earlier this year. Whew, I was like OMG, this can't be happening.
I so want them to put their differences aside and just have fun this tour.

[kennation]

Funny. Digging up a hotbed of a post that no one has brought up in nearly 8 months doesn't sound like you're ready to sit in a circle holding hands and singing Kumbaya to me.

See, I knew someone would get upset. Calm down. There is no need to be like that. I just read the thread and posted my opinion. Good thing that my opinion doesn't rely on your approval, or timeline.

[CADreaming]

Funny. Digging up a hotbed of a post that no one has brought up in nearly 8 months doesn't sound like you're ready to sit in a circle holding hands and singing Kumbaya to me.


LOL!! :thumbsup:

[Regina]

See, I knew someone would get upset. Calm down. There is no need to be like that. I just read the thread and posted my opinion. Good thing that my opinion doesn't rely on your approval, or timeline.

I am completely calm. You can state your opinion anywhere. You chose to pick an incendiary thread and continue it 8 months after it was dead in the water. So, spare us the false, wide-eyed disclaimers. Or not.
Free country and all that.

[kennation]

I am completely calm. You can state your opinion anywhere. You chose to pick an incendiary thread and continue it 8 months after it was dead in the water. So, spare us the false, wide-eyed disclaimers. Or not.
Free country and all that.

This type of attitude showcases a complete disregard to the notice given by Johnny Stew. I have respect for everyone and I wish that you would do the same. I have nothing more to say.

[Janis_no1]

I love, love, love Stevie to death, but this LB bashing is getting OLD! I've always been "about" her when it came to FM, but say the last 10 years, realized it's a band, and every member has a major contribution. Hearing this about LB is just mean.
:distress:

...and so Garbo does speak! :lol:

[JbbyStew86]

eight months later and im still laughing and trying to appreciate "her celebrity".