SYW: A Dud Album

[michelej1]

This article discusses rock reunions and mentions Fleetwood Mac. I like the picture with Stevie's hair in flight:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ent/music/5234549.html

Some rock-band reunions are rockier than others

By JON BEAM and CHRIS RIEMENSCHNEIDER
Star Tribune (Minneapolis) (MCT)

"We're getting along better than we have before."

So said Eddie Van Halen at a news conference in August, when his namesake band announced its reunion tour with original singer David Lee Roth. If only the guitar god's statement really said all that much.

The Roth-fueled outing puts a postscript on a legendary lineup that was contentious throughout most of its original 12-year run. Many fans flocked to the tour's Sept. 27 opening date in Charlotte, N.C., because they didn't expect it to last much past that.

Fans lining up for the tour will no doubt be watching for signs of turmoil and/or hints of what's to come.

We take a look back at some of rock's most famous tension-filled, acrimonious reunion tours, and how they fared in the end.

—The Police

Backstory: Singer/bassist Sting and drummer Stewart Copeland fought like bullheaded brothers before disbanding in 1986. The chief of the Police put down his lute and unexpectedly extended an olive branch for the trio's eight-month (and counting) tour that started in May.

Postscript: A few shows in, Copeland ripped the band's lack of synchronicity on his blog, and many fans and critics continue to complain. But the $91 million paycheck for North America alone has apparently arrested Copeland's concerns.

—The Pixies

Backstory; In 1993, Frank Black broke up his influential Boston alt-rock band by fax (ouch!), largely due to his rift with bassist/singer Kim Deal, who had spawned her own group, the Breeders, and a bad drug habit. After years of downplaying the Pixies, Black opened the door for 2004's reunion by playing the quartet's songs on a 2003 solo tour.

Postscript: As seen in the fascinating documentary loudQuietloud, the band never really gelled personally on the tour, and drummer Dave Lovering (not Deal) needed rehab. But the concerts were a surprise hit musically and financially, leaving open the possibility for more.

—Motley Crue

Backstory: Where to begin? The defining Behind the Music tale of sex, drugs, a little rock 'n roll and way too much greed, the Crue came to a halt in 1999 after drummer Tommy Lee got out of jail for spousal abuse and stepped back into the tabloids full-time.

Postscript: After forgettable outings with replacement members, the original quartet hit the road again in 2005 with varying success. Now comes word that Tommy — back in the tabloids thanks to a motley scrum with Kid Rock — has reportedly quit the band once again.

—Van Halen 2 (with Sammy Hagar)

Backstory: The band split with its second singer (Hagar) and hired a third guy (Gary Cherone) in 1996, a move that bombed worse than David Lee Roth's solo career. But Hagar was back on board for a 2004 tour.

Postscript: In concert, they overacted their chumminess, and Eddie Van Halen under-performed following chemo and preceding rehab. There was no downplaying the acrimony after the tour — bad enough to finally send Eddie and Alex Van Halen back into Diamond Dave's arms.

—Fleetwood Mac

Backstory: All the Rumours over the band's heyday-era trysts and drug use eroded their harmonies. In 1987 Lindsey Buckingham opted to go his own way, and Stevie Nicks exited one album later. It took a presidential pardon to get them back together in 1993 (for Bill Clinton's inauguration).

Postscript: The chain was fully reconnected for a well-received 1997 tour, after which Christine McVie retired. A dud album but another popular tour followed in 2003, but it's unclear if the Mac is still intact.

—Eagles

Backstory: "When hell freezes over," is what Don Henley said throughout the '80s about America's all-time best-selling band getting back together. Hell is exactly what the band caught for being the first to break the $100-ticket mark in 1994 (now ancient history), when Henley and co-frontman Glenn Frey reached a detente.

Postscript: They've been selling out — literally and figuratively — for a decade and will finally release their overdue reunion album on Oct. 30 as a Wal-Mart exclusive.

—Simon & Garfunkel

Backstory: Paul wrote the songs and got more of the acclaim (and royalties), which frustrated Art, who had the prettier voice. After their 1970 split, the childhood friends couldn't bridge their troubled waters until their mammoth 1981 free concert in New York's Central Park, which led to a 1982-83 tour.

Postscript: Their first reunion trek survived with separate limos and dressing rooms. By their 2003 tour, they showed more onstage communication, but who knows what happened off stage?

[buckymcnix]

I would have trimmed off four or five tunes, but not a dud in my book by any means.

[mylittledemon]

I would have trimmed off four or five tunes, but not a dud in my book by any means.

Agreed. I didnt like "Everybody Finds Out"..."Goodbye Baby" and a few others were average. But I like the album as a whole.

[michelej1]

I bet the writer doesn't even remember what the album sounded like, if he ever listened to it. He just knows that it didn't sell, so that means DUD.

As for the successful tour that the article mentioned, here's a list of the top grossing 2003 tours. Translated from Spanish by Babelfish. I'm surprised that Cher is up there with the big groups:

http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr?lp=es_en&url=http://www.univision.com/content/content.jhtml?cid=345166

The 50 richer artists of the 2003

The Manna boys will not be friends of Sting, as they wanted to be conceited in his day, but now have with what shutting up to the ridicules. The quartet is elbowed with the Rolling, It brushes Springsteen, and both gentlemen of Great Britain, Sir Paul McCartney and Sir Elton John in a list #. Manna occupies place 44 in the 50 musicians who more money did in the 2003, according to publishes the magazine Rolling Stone. And this time there is no Sting that clears importance.

1. The Rolling Stones, $84,1 million

In 2002, when the tour of Forty Licks began, the Rolling occupied number two in this list. What put to them in the head? Just like it managed to put to Mick Jagger and Keith Richards in the cover of the Fortune magazine: a tour that sold $212 million entrances, special in television and much publicity. More than three million people they attended the concerts.

2. Brush Springsteen, $81,7 million

Most of the rock bands they contract a promoter to be guaranteed a gain, and soon they share the total. Springsteen no. A seventy percent made sure the total gains if all the entrances were sold in each concert. In addition, its spectacle is austere, it does not use expensive special effects, and the public spent much money in merchandise.

3, Eagles, $62,9 million

The last year they demanded a guarantee of gain of $750.000 by concert, this year increased to $1 million, and the cost of its entrances raised in $20. In addition, they received an advance of $10 million by its Great package of Exitos.

4, Dixie Chicks, $39,8 million

Natalie Maines criticized to president Bush in England and a group of nationalists called to sabotage of the band and his discs. It did not work. Each one of its concerts in EU left gains of $1 million. In addition, the Chicks demanded to Sony by lack of payments of 20 million of albumes that already had sold and this year they sold 6 million more of his new album, Home.

5, Metallica, $39,1 million

6, Toby Keith, $38,7 million

7, Bon Jovi, $36,1 million

8, Shania Twain, $36,1 million

9, Simon and Garfunkel, $35,8 million

10, Cher, $33,8 million

11, Celine Dion, $33,1 million

12, Fleetwood Mac, $32,5 million

13, Robbie Williams, $32,5 million

14, Christina Eyrie, $27,9 million

15, Jennifer Lopez, $29,1 million

16, Dave Matthews, $27,3 million

17, Jimmy Buffett, $25,8 million

18. Hoist Cube, $25,7 million

19, The Beatles, $25,6 million

20, Norah Jones, $25,6 million

21, Justin Timberlake, $24,7 million

22, Elton John, $24,6 million

23, Coldplay, $23,7 million

24, Queen Latifah, $23,3 million

25, Aerosmith, $22,5 million

26. Kiss, $22,1 million

27, Kenny Chesney, $21,9 million

28, Eminem, $20,8 million

29, Yanni, $20,5 million

30, James Taylor, $20 million

31, Phish, $19,4 million

32, Dr Dre, $18,6 million
33, John Mayer, $17,1 million

34. 50 Cent, $16,9 million

35, Tim McGraw, $16,7 million

36, R. Kelly, $14,4 million

37, Matchbox Twenty, $14 million

38, P. Diddy, $13,9 million

39, Billy Joel, $13,8 million

40, Brooks and Dunn, $13,6 million

41, Network Hot Chili Peppers, $13,4 million

42, Pearl Jam, $13,4 million

43, Paul McCartney, $13,3 million

44. He flows, $12,1 million

Rolling Stone reports that the tour that Manna did by the United States in the 2003 recovered $10 million in sales.

45, The Dead, $11,4 million

46, Bill Gaither, $11,2 million

47, The Osbournes, $10,3 million

48, Trans Siberian Orchestra, $10,3 million

49, Radiohead, $10 million

50, Eros Ramazotti, $10 million

[JazmenFlowers]

I would have trimmed off four or five tunes, but not a dud in my book by any means.
agreed. it was not a dud. it was a risk and not inside the box at all, but not a dud.

[Betsy]

I would have trimmed off four or five tunes, but not a dud in my book by any means.

Weren't there 18 songs on that CD??? We got a lot of music for the price, and at least half were good.

I bought Neil Diamond's Twelve Songs at about the same time...and damn, there were exactly 12 songs (and only one good one.)

(Back in the days...a vinyl LP could only hold 12 songs...but a CD? Was Neil being stingy??)

[michelej1]

(Back in the days...a vinyl LP could only hold 12 songs...but a CD? Was Neil being stingy??)

Well, Destiny Rules kind of outlined how the artist has to pay for the extra songs. So, I wouldn't say that Neil Diamond was being stingy, he just wasn't splurging:lol:. Since then, I have paid attention to how many of the cds I purchase have exactly 12 songs. I didn't really notice before.

Michele

[camchristo]

I don't think it's a dud at all. In fact, I really like it. There is only one song I consistently skip over - Silver Girl. Just.don't.like.

[Musicman408]

There are some songs that could've stood to be dropped, but I still love the gems on the album.

[JazmenFlowers]

I don't think it's a dud at all. In fact, I really like it. There is only one song I consistently skip over - Silver Girl. Just.don't.like.
:eek:

o.m.g. I thought you, of all people, would appreciate my beautiful Silver Girl. oh my gah! I just love it.

just teasing. I really do love Silver Girl though and I don't understand why it is so universally disliked.

[camchristo]

You know what? Just for you I'm gonna listen to it tonight. I'll let you know if I change my mind. :lol:

[Chrislit18]

I really love SYW!

I don't know how it could be considered a dud, I mean, while Bleed to Love Her was a WASTE of album space [The Dance blows this one away for me.] and Illume could have been better, and Smile At You just doesnt have the oomph that it did back in the 80s [demo], it is an amazing album!

Ive even grown to LOVE Silver Girl.
Thrown Down, RTTG, and EFO are some of Stevie's overall best songs IMO

and Linds could NOT have done a better job on SYHA, Red Rover, Say Goodbye, and WTTWCT.

The only 'dud'-ish thing is that Christine wasnt a part of it more than she was. [those three little background vocals did NOTHING for me...I'm sorry, I need my CMV love-songs :)]

[buckymcnix]

Agreed. I didnt like "Everybody Finds Out"..."Goodbye Baby" and a few others were average. But I like the album as a whole.

which ones of Lindsey's didn't you like brandon?

[jannieC]

It took a lot of patience and repitition for me to embrace, and eventually *love* SYW. As a hardcore fan, I was very disappointed initially, so I can see how a casual fan would be unimpressed.

[mylittledemon]

which ones of Lindsey's didn't you like brandon?

I really dislike Miranda.

[buckymcnix]

I really dislike Miranda.

hmmm - that surprises me . . . but i don't know why - lol - i certainly have yet to figure you out - lol

i would have left off come or murrow - and i am pretty sure it would have been come. . . murrow's lyrics have an actual point - lol

i agree above that bleed was a bit of a re-hash so i would have dropped tht one too.

i also would have swapped say goodbye and goodbye baby at the end.

[mylittledemon]

hmmm - that surprises me . . . but i don't know why - lol - i certainly have yet to figure you out - lol

i would have left off come or murrow - and i am pretty sure it would have been come. . . murrow's lyrics have an actual point - lol

i agree above that bleed was a bit of a re-hash so i would have dropped tht one too.

i also would have swapped say goodbye and goodbye baby at the end.


HAHA...whats there to figure out?

Yeah I dont like the words to Miranda, or the sound of the song. I like the weird slide-sounding guitar at the end though.

I really like Come and Murrow, in terms of guitar work. I like the LIVE Murrow better tho.

I dislike Goodbye Baby altogether...that track is poo. And get rid of Everybody Finds Out. And Illume.

[chiliD]

I thought SYW was a good album. It WAS a "dud" at the cash register, though. Only FMac fans would really appreciate it. It really didn't have that "thing" for either the general listener or radio airplay. The programming of most stations nowadays is just way to narrow for Fleetwood Mac to fit ANYWHERE.

Except for "WTWCT", all of Lindsey's songs weren't "new"...that was fairly disappointing. I didn't care for "Silver Girl" at first, but it grew on me over time. And, being entranced by Lindsey's guitar solo wasn't enough to keep me liking "Running Through The Garden"...that's the only stinker for me on the album now. Swap it out with "Not Make Believe" and the album would move up a couple of notches (that and redo the running order of the songs).

[mylittledemon]

I thought SYW was a good album. It WAS a "dud" at the cash register, though. Only FMac fans would really appreciate it. It really didn't have that "thing" for either the general listener or radio airplay. The programming of most stations nowadays is just way to narrow for Fleetwood Mac to fit ANYWHERE.

Except for "WTWCT", all of Lindsey's songs weren't "new"...that was fairly disappointing. I didn't care for "Silver Girl" at first, but it grew on me over time. And, being entranced by Lindsey's guitar solo wasn't enough to keep me liking "Running Through The Garden"...that's the only stinker for me on the album now. Swap it out with "Not Make Believe" and the album would move up a couple of notches (that and redo the running order of the songs).

Really? I liked Runnin Thru the Garden better than a couple of Stevie's other tunes. I did like "Not Make Believe"...and I would've put Lindseys Dylan cover on the album too.

[chiliD]

Really? I liked Runnin Thru the Garden better than a couple of Stevie's other tunes. I did like "Not Make Believe"...and I would've put Lindseys Dylan cover on the album too.

On the heels of TISL, overall, I actually liked Stevie's tunes on SYW better than Lindsey's. But, then, that thing about Lindsey's already being "released" (read: leaked) made them "old news" by that time.

I think they just should've released a double CD with 12 tracks on each. Or, a better marketing ploy would've been: release a single CD with only 12 tracks, then come back about 9 months later (in mid tour) with the second single CD with 12 more tracks.

[JazmenFlowers]

And, being entranced by Lindsey's guitar solo wasn't enough to keep me liking "Running Through The Garden"...that's the only stinker for me on the album now. Swap it out with "Not Make Believe" and the album would move up a couple of notches (that and redo the running order of the songs).
agreed. :nod:

[AliceLover]

I really dislike Miranda.

A little piece inside of me just died.....:laugh:

[danax6]

A little piece inside of me just died.....:laugh:You and me both. It's my favorite Lindsey track on the album. :distress:

[Sarah]

As if Silver Girl isn't bad enough on its own.... the ending of RTTG is really good, and as soon as it's over, you're propelled face-first into it. Good way to screw up the track sequencing... I have to wonder if this is what the tension in the last days of finishing the album was about.

I understand why Bleed To Love Her was on there - with it being the track that kind of "kicked off" the reunion project - but this version totally sucks compared to the Dance. The noodling guitar solo at the end just gets so old. It's pretty, but end it already.

Other than that... I have grown to like Illume (occasionally), after totally hating it for the first year or so... so I guess it can stay. But I will NEVER like Silver Girl. She could have saved that crap for a solo album. :mad:

[Chrislit18]

HAHA...whats there to figure out?

Yeah I dont like the words to Miranda, or the sound of the song. I like the weird slide-sounding guitar at the end though.



Agreed. Miranda is my least fav. Lindsey track on the whole album

I thought peacekeeper was new also [to whoever [sorry forgot who] said that WTWCT was the only 'new' Linds song] maybe Im wrong.

Illume is just horrible. I get the theme, but I cant even stand to listen to it for like 2 seconds.

I skip that and Miranda. occasionally I skip SYW too, because that gets just as repetative as BTLH

[Sarah]

I thought peacekeeper was new also [to whoever [sorry forgot who] said that WTWCT was the only 'new' Linds song] maybe Im wrong.

There's an earlier version of peacekeeper that is faster with only Lindsey vocals. Much, much, much better than the SYW version with Stevie harmonies.

[Chrislit18]

There's an earlier version of peacekeeper that is faster with only Lindsey vocals. Much, much, much better than the SYW version with Stevie harmonies.
I probably have it on the nonworking computer. I'll have to listen to it.

TBT, I think all of LBs SYW songs sound better without the Stevie Harmonies.
Listen to SYHA, and SG for two. I LOVE both versions [SYW and GOS], but there is something about the GOS that just sounds better to me, and it is the lack of Stevies vocals.

I've always said that Stevies 'oh...steal your heart away' at the end of the song ruins it.
and as soon as I heard the GOS version, my thoughts were confrimed.

[Sorry Stevie fans, just some things are better without her. but hey, I wish LB wouldnt have put his vocals on EFO (the chorus of it drives me INSANE). we cant always get what we want now can we?]

[danax6]

Other than that... I have grown to like Illume (occasionally), after totally hating it for the first year or so... so I guess it can stay. But I will NEVER like Silver Girl. She could have saved that crap for a solo album. :mad:Please. It shouldn't even have left Phoenix. Better yet, it shouldn't even have been written down on paper. Bah!

[Sarah]

Please. It shouldn't even have left Phoenix. Better yet, it shouldn't even have been written down on paper. Bah!

:laugh:

i was trying to be civil.. but yes, i agree. i was going to say something about how it's an abomination in the name of the fleetwood mac catalog. or how it's a mole on the ass of fleetwood mac, which is way worse than a boil, because a mole is forever. :distress:

[danax6]

:laugh:

i was trying to be civil.. but yes, i agree. i was going to say something about how it's an abomination in the name of the fleetwood mac catalog. or how it's a mole on the ass of fleetwood mac, which is way worse than a boil, because a mole is forever. :distress:And a hairy mole on top of that. :cool:

[buckymcnix]

:laugh:
or how it's a mole on the ass of fleetwood mac, :


Michelle?
:]

[Peestie]

I like Illume. It's one of the Stevie tracks I seem to come back to most.

I also like the GOS versions of all the songs that had Stevie added to them more than the SYW version. SG is seems so much more intimate without Stevie's vocals on there.

[Betsy]

There's an earlier version of peacekeeper that is faster with only Lindsey vocals. Much, much, much better than the SYW version with Stevie harmonies.


Can you post it?

Thnx!

[Sarah]

Can you post it?

Thnx!

I don't know if I still have it. I'll check when I get home from work. If I do, I will!

[mylittledemon]

Agreed. Miranda is my least fav. Lindsey track on the whole album

I thought peacekeeper was new also [to whoever [sorry forgot who] said that WTWCT was the only 'new' Linds song] maybe Im wrong.

Illume is just horrible. I get the theme, but I cant even stand to listen to it for like 2 seconds.

I skip that and Miranda. occasionally I skip SYW too, because that gets just as repetative as BTLH

i like the Chris Lord Alge mix of SYW better.

[mylittledemon]

I understand why Bleed To Love Her was on there - with it being the track that kind of "kicked off" the reunion project - but this version totally sucks compared to the Dance. The noodling guitar solo at the end just gets so old. It's pretty, but end it already.


I disagree. I like it a lot. I think the Dance version is better...but I like the SYW version for separate reasons. Especially that pretty guitar part at the end.

[Villavic]

As for the successful tour that the article mentioned, here's a list of the top grossing 2003 tours. Translated from Spanish by Babelfish. I'm surprised that Cher is up there with the big groups:


SURPRISED?? WHY??? Cher's concerts are great!! No doubt her tours are so successful..

[michelej1]

SURPRISED?? WHY??? Cher's concerts are great!! No doubt her tours are so successful..

Yeah I've been a Sonny and Cher fan since I was a child. I've seen a few of their concerts and would have seen more, had I been an adult and had they not broken up. I've also seen Cher solo many times. I first heard Needles and Pins long before Stevie and Tom sang it. Still, I was surprised at the 2003 box office for Cher. That surprise was not a comment on the merit of her performances.



Michele

[LukeA]

Yeah I've been a Sonny and Cher fan since I was a child. I've seen a few of their concerts and would have seen more, had I been an adult and had they not broken up. I've also seen Cher solo many times. I first heard Needles and Pins long before Stevie and Tom sang it. Still, I was surprised at the 2003 box office for Cher. That surprise was not a comment on the merit of her performances.


In 2003, Cher was in the middle of her massive 300+ date "farewell" arena tour, which stretched over three years. She was a top box office earner 2002-2005, and stands to be again once her Vegas residency starts next year.

[michelej1]

In 2003, Cher was in the middle of her massive 300+ date "farewell" arena tour, which stretched over three years. She was a top box office earner 2002-2005, and stands to be again once her Vegas residency starts next year.


Yes, I saw that show and she was at Staples here in Los Angeles. But because the tour did last so long, I didn't know that sales were that high. I guess I assumed that they thinned out, sort of the way FM's box office haul fell off during the 2nd leg of their tour. At any rate, while I would expect her to make a Top list, I didn't think she would rank as high as she actually did, right up there with the Springsteen's and supergroup's of the world.

Michele

[amber]

I thought the work was very good, basically, but they did under spotlight their harmony abilities, and their mixing and production was a bit off, but still intriguing.
It reminded me of people who used to know each other well, then got together after a few years, but didn't quite find the synergy they used to have, because of unfamiliarity and the simple fact of, if you don't spend much time together, you don't grow in the same way. And they didn't take the time to delve in and really meet eye to eye, musically. Or, they just didn't take the time. It's hard to re-know someone after you haven't seen them for long. You have different points of reference.

I really like SYW, though. And, I really, really like Lindsey's contributions to it with his own songs.

Ain't no shame in that game.

[mylittledemon]

I thought the work was very good, basically, but they did under spotlight their harmony abilities, and their mixing and production was a bit off, but still intriguing.
It reminded me of people who used to know each other well, then got together after a few years, but didn't quite find the synergy they used to have, because of unfamiliarity and the simple fact of, if you don't spend much time together, you don't grow in the same way. And they didn't take the time to delve in and really meet eye to eye, musically. Or, they just didn't take the time. It's hard to re-know someone after you haven't seen them for long. You have different points of reference.

I really like SYW, though. And, I really, really like Lindsey's contributions to it with his own songs.

Ain't no shame in that game.


I think the albums major problems were a) Christine was absent and b) the material was old. I mean, in the sense that it was solo material slapped together to make a Fleetwood Mac record.

[Gailh]

I think the albums major problems were a) Christine was absent and b) the material was old. I mean, in the sense that it was solo material slapped together to make a Fleetwood Mac record.

totally agree.

without Christine it did sound like Buckingham Nicks backed by Fleetwood & McVie. Not bad if that's your thing but I thought it sounded like 2 solo albums.

I think it is too long by about 15 - 20 minutes but I dont hate it and I don't think it's a dud

Gail

[mylittledemon]

totally agree.

without Christine it did sound like Buckingham Nicks backed by Fleetwood & McVie. Not bad if that's your thing but I thought it sounded like 2 solo albums.

I think it is too long by about 15 - 20 minutes but I dont hate it and I don't think it's a dud

Gail

I agree...but thats cause we're "fans"...the mainstreamers might not have taken to the album for those reasons. I do think the album would've been better if they had cut 4-5 of Stevie and Lindsey's songs. (or replaced them with 4 or 5 of Christines!)

[Villavic]

I think the albums major problems were a) Christine was absent and b) the material was old. I mean, in the sense that it was solo material slapped together to make a Fleetwood Mac record.

I agree, too. And the order.
and. let's face it. Fleetwood Mac is an old band, it's very hard for old bands to get a mega hit album. Tours are other story, but albums.. hard to sell for a band like Fleetwood Mac in these days..

[Sarah]

But. It still sold 850k+ copies, and still stands a chance to go platinum over the next several years. It's not exactly a disgrace.

And I could not possibly disagree more about an album being too long. If I'm paying almost 20 bucks for a cd, the more music they cram on it, the better. I don't understand where people get off on wanting less new music. At all. It'd be awesome if it wasn't **** like Silver Girl, but I can excuse that for 17 other at least fairly decent songs.

As far as solo records mashed together with Fleetwood/McVie - what's new about that? Shouldn't we be used to that by now? :shrug:

[chiliD]

As far as solo records mashed together with Fleetwood/McVie - what's new about that? Shouldn't we be used to that by now? :shrug:

Nope, despite it being the reality of the situation, doesn't mean I have to LIKE it. Write some damned material FOR the band or get the hell OUT of the band and get people who WILL. Or, just kill off the band and ONLY do solo albums.

[Sarah]

Nope, despite it being the reality of the situation, doesn't mean I have to LIKE it. Write some damned material FOR the band or get the hell OUT of the band and get people who WILL. Or, just kill off the band and ONLY do solo albums.

Who said anything about whether or not you like it? I said "used to" it. If you don't like the album, that's your problem.

[mylittledemon]

But. It still sold 850k+ copies, and still stands a chance to go platinum over the next several years. It's not exactly a disgrace.

And I could not possibly disagree more about an album being too long. If I'm paying almost 20 bucks for a cd, the more music they cram on it, the better. I don't understand where people get off on wanting less new music. At all. It'd be awesome if it wasn't **** like Silver Girl, but I can excuse that for 17 other at least fairly decent songs.

As far as solo records mashed together with Fleetwood/McVie - what's new about that? Shouldn't we be used to that by now? :shrug:

I think the white album, Rumours, and Tusk (and even Mirage) were more of a collaborative effort than other Nicks/Buckingham/McVie albums. I think SYW lacked that vibe. It was like a Lindsey solo album and a Stevie one mashed together. In other words, the album didnt flow well together.

I'm not judging SYW on sales. I think that has nothing to do with success (the way I define it anyway). I just think, compared to other Mac albums...and the amount of time they had to work on it that it could've been a better record. I really believe that Christine's absence has a lot to do with it. That being said, I'd rather have SOME incarnation of Fleetwood Mac than none at all. I also would rather see them release more albums than tour so much.

[chiliD]

Who said anything about whether or not you like it? I said "used to" it. If you don't like the album, that's your problem.

Didn't say anything about liking or disliking the album, I dislike the SITUATION that the only material used for Fleetwood Mac albums involving Lindsey Buckingham & Stevie Nicks is leftover solo material. I wish they'd just go away so Mick & John can find people who WANT to be members of Fleetwood Mac.

[Sarah]

Didn't say anything about liking or disliking the album, I dislike the SITUATION that the only material used for Fleetwood Mac albums involving Lindsey Buckingham & Stevie Nicks is leftover solo material. I wish they'd just go away so Mick & John can find people who WANT to be members of Fleetwood Mac.

I think Fleetwood Mac is probably too much of a brand now for that. Especially since the Rumours lineup had the successful Dance reunion, and Lindsey and Stevie stuck around for SYW. I don't think the world would give new front people a chance... especially in concert, when the pressure is on to sing the Lindsey/Stevie/Christine hits.

And as far as SYW not having the vibe of the White Album, Rumours, and Tusk being a band effort... that's a given. It's also a given that it isn't coming back.

[mylittledemon]

I think Fleetwood Mac is probably too much of a brand now for that. Especially since the Rumours lineup had the successful Dance reunion, and Lindsey and Stevie stuck around for SYW. I don't think the world would give new front people a chance... especially in concert, when the pressure is on to sing the Lindsey/Stevie/Christine hits.

And as far as SYW not having the vibe of the White Album, Rumours, and Tusk being a band effort... that's a given. It's also a given that it isn't coming back.

If the band vibe isnt coming back, then, to ChiliD's defense...go make solo records.

[Sarah]

If the band vibe isnt coming back, then, to ChiliD's defense...go make solo records.

I can halfway stand behind that. I don't care if I never hear a new Stevie Nicks song ever again. But. If they did another round as Fleetwood Mac, that'd be just fine with me too.

This is my favorite band. I'm not going to sit here and say that I hope they never make a record as a band ever again. Even if the band vibe doesn't come back. Even a mediocre effort by Fleetwood Mac is better than a true effort by a lot of other groups. A couple weak spots don't cause me to say "SYW is a dud album". It's not a perfect album, but it's not crap either.

[mylittledemon]

I can halfway stand behind that. I don't care if I never hear a new Stevie Nicks song ever again. But. If they did another round as Fleetwood Mac, that'd be just fine with me too.

This is my favorite band. I'm not going to sit here and say that I hope they never make a record as a band ever again. Even if the band vibe doesn't come back. Even a mediocre effort by Fleetwood Mac is better than a true effort by a lot of other groups. A couple weak spots don't cause me to say "SYW is a dud album". It's not a perfect album, but it's not crap either.

Yeah I'd much rather see a new Fleetwood Mac studio record...then a Lindsey record...then a Stevie record. But I find Lindsey's UTS to be more refreshing than SYW. So I kinda side with ChiliD's stance on that. I think if Stevie and Lindsey were to come together with new material, and start from the ground up, they could continue to do something amazing with Fleetwood Mac.

[vivfox]

if it wasn't **** like Silver Girl, but I can excuse that for 17 other at least fairly decent songs.




:lol::lol::lol:

[Hawkeye]

Say You Will is a very weird album in that it's quite possibly the only BuckinghamNicks involved Fleetwood Mac album where I "like" every song. On Rumours I almost always skip I Don;t Want To Know, and their very best album and the best album by anyone Tusk, I have to skip Never Make Me Cry. Mirage and Tango in the Night, forget them I have to skip half the songs. On Say You Will, Every single song is good to me. I'll occaisionly skip a few of the songs but not because I don't like them. I like all 18 SYW songs. But to look at it another way if I were to list my top 10 or even top 20 favorite fleetwood mac songs, i don't think any from Say You Will would make that list. Thrown Down, Illume, Murrow, WTWCT and Destiny Rules would all be close and easy contenders for top 30 :laugh: but my point is, I like every song, there are 18 good songs but very few great ones and even fewer Really great ones. Meanwhile TISL contained in my opinion 2 or 3 Stevie songs that are among her very very best (TISL, Fall From Grace and Sorcerer) 2 of which are amazing live tracks that are now staples for her. SYW and Goodbye Baby were not showstoppers like FFG and Sorcerer can be. So I think this may proove Chili's point of they're not bringing their A game to Fleetwood Mac.

[Johnny Stew]

Nope, despite it being the reality of the situation, doesn't mean I have to LIKE it. Write some damned material FOR the band or get the hell OUT of the band and get people who WILL. Or, just kill off the band and ONLY do solo albums.
Just in regards to recent years, Stevie wrote "Sweet Girl" for Fleetwood Mac. She also wrote "Destiny Rules," "Illume," "Say You Will," and "Silver Girl" expressly for the band. "Thrown Down" almost went on 'TISL,' but much like what happened with "Gypsy," Stevie saved it because she said she thought it would make a much better band song. Not to mention the fact that she'd been trying to get them to record "Smile At You" all the way back to '79, so, even though it wasn't new, it's safe to assume it was written for them too.

Going back to post-solo album releases, "Straight Back" was definitely written for Fleetwood Mac (at one point, Stevie even thought it was going to be the title track). "When I See You Again" ("I just sent them a song the day before yesterday -- a 'Landslide' kind of song -- and they liked it"), "No Questions Asked," "Paper Doll," "Freedom," "Love Is Dangerous," and "The Second Time," also all seem to have been written for the band.

So, yeah, some of them are "leftovers" from solo albums she's working on at the time, but she definitely still writes certain songs with an ear to Fleetwood Mac.

[LukeA]

Anyone who thinks that SYW was a commercial disappointment is either a moron or otherwise intellectually deficient.

Sales were beyond all (record label) expectations, and were nowhere near anything dissapointing.

[PenguinHead]

(Back in the days...a vinyl LP could only hold 12 songs...but a CD? Was Neil being stingy??)

Just because a particular format holds more music doesn't mean an artist should expected to fill it. I have many newer cds from artists that only have 10 to 12 songs. It's not for lack of content or stinginess, but a conscious decision to make a statement with a concise, small group of songs that don't demand 80 minutes to listen to. In that regard, there is very little room for filler, and the songs stand out more.

I would never wish for less songs from a Fleetwood Mac release -- since the years between their releases get longer and longer...and they aren't getting any younger. I am very grateful they (at least Lindsey) thought out of the box and gave us what amounts to - in vinyl terms - a double album. Yet, because of the volume, many songs got lost in mix. If it had been parred down it would have been less weighty, giving some of the better songs room to breathe. They could have planned for a deluxe version of Say You Will that had all the other songs on a bonus disc. I see that happening alot these day.

[michelej1]

Anyone who thinks that SYW was a commercial disappointment is either a moron or otherwise intellectually deficient.


Would that include band members?

You know, I don't think SYW was a critical disappointment by any stretch of the imagination. Commercially? Um, I think some people did experience a let down.

As for the label . . . I don't know what to think. I was surprised that Lindsey got the go ahead for not one but TWO solo albums. That did lead me to think that maybe they were indulging him to guarantee future FM endeavors. So, maybe Reprise didn't think SYW was a total waste. Good news for us.

Michele

[PenguinHead]

I also would rather see them release more albums than tour so much.

Unfortunately, for older bands like Fleetwood Mac...they tend to make more money being on the road than releasing new material... which likely won't sell as much as in their heydays. And like any other aging people, with more time behind them than in front of them, they are looking to secure their nest eggs. So, there is not much incentive, without a strong creative muse (Stevie?), to put out new music.

[Johnny Stew]

I imagine very few people were expecting sales in league with 'The Dance,' and hopefully Warner Brothers really was thrilled with how 'Say You Will' did, but I think many fans, and probably the band members themselves, never expected that it still wouldn't have sold a million copies four years later.

Is that a reasonable expectation? I suppose not. But that's the way it is when you have a reputation for selling millions of albums.

As much as I personally love the album, "Say You Will" didn't seem to create any momentum for Fleetwood Mac, and perhaps if it had had a longer shelf-life, the band members would have been more keen to get back into the studio with each other.

It has to be tough for artists who are used to selling a certain amount of albums, to feel confident as to whether their new music is really connecting with people. The sense that you're selling only to your loyal fanbase and not many others, must be somewhat disconcerting the first couple of times you experience it. Times, and buying habits, have changed though, and artists -- and fans -- have to adjust their expectation levels accordingly. Some already have, while others are still working on it.

[mylittledemon]

I imagine very few people were expecting sales in league with 'The Dance,' and hopefully Warner Brothers really was thrilled with how 'Say You Will' did, but I think many fans, and probably the band members themselves, never expected that it still wouldn't have sold a million copies four years later.

Is that a reasonable expectation? I suppose not. But that's the way it is when you have a reputation for selling millions of albums.

As much as I personally love the album, "Say You Will" didn't seem to create any momentum for Fleetwood Mac, and perhaps if it had had a longer shelf-life, the band members would have been more keen to get back into the studio with each other.

It has to be tough for artists who are used to selling a certain amount of albums, to feel confident as to whether their new music is really connecting with people. The sense that you're selling only to your loyal fanbase and not many others, must be somewhat disconcerting the first couple of times you experience it. Times, and buying habits, have changed though, and artists -- and fans -- have to adjust their expectation levels accordingly. Some already have, while others are still working on it.

I figured it would at least sell a million records. I think a major radio hit would've helped that. I think the Dance was just different...mainly because of the reunion aspect, and the live footage.

I couldnt agree with you more. I like SYW a lot...but I agree it didnt create any momentum for the band. The tour, however, was more than successful. I dont like the idea of them continuing to tour without putting out records. It just feels like a cash machine at that point, rather than moving forward. Let's not even TALK about the Eagles! haha

[Gailh]

I figured it would at least sell a million records. I think a major radio hit would've helped that. I think the Dance was just different...mainly because of the reunion aspect, and the live footage.

I couldnt agree with you more. I like SYW a lot...but I agree it didnt create any momentum for the band. The tour, however, was more than successful. I dont like the idea of them continuing to tour without putting out records. It just feels like a cash machine at that point, rather than moving forward. Let's not even TALK about the Eagles! haha

I think that these days the emphasis has switched from albums being the cash cow to touring bringing in the dosh. In the past a tour was there just to promote an album and it didn't matter whether it made money because increased album sales made up for it. Nowadays with so much music being available to download (and you don't even need to download or buy the whole album) touring has taken over as the money spinner. I'm sure John and Mick appreciate that!

I personally wont go and see them again without a new album (or Christine) unless it looks like we're going to get something new. If they start with The Chain and Mick does his party trick with World Turning that will be a definate no. Fortunately living in the UK I'll get plenty of information as to the set list etc before I have to make decision because they always tour the States first.

Gail

[TrueFaith77]

Say You Will, for me, is practically a return to form: the best album any of the four members have been involved with since Tusk. Is it as great as Tusk or Rumours? No. But, as I told a friend of mine, if I could only have albums as great as Tusk or Rumours in my collection, I'd either have 2 albums or 40 albums, and that's it. For me, Say You Will achieved something extraordinary; by contextualizing Lindsey's Gift of Screws tracks -- each one improved -- with Stevie's new tracks (post-Dance) and tracks from Rumours-era and the 80s, they make meaning grow exponentially (the gift Mac gives these two artists). It achieved two things in tandem: providing catharsis to the era's insensitivity/pain through the resolution of their mythic love affair. It invited the audience to return to ritual. I think every track plays its role (even the mid-album Stevie trilogy, which provides a survey of her entire career and spiritual development in three songs). I have more thoughts, but you get the general idea.

The tragedy of Say You Will is that its making actually provided the experiences that should have set the groundwork for the next album. As is proven by Under the Skin's tracks that seem to speak to Lindsey's relationship with Stevie -- title track, "Shut Us Down" (which should have been the greatest Lindsey/Stevie duet since "Beautiful Child"), "Cast Away Dreams," and that extraordinary Donovan cover. All of these would have benefited from Mac involvement, because the meaning would have changed in relation to Stevie's tracks. Plus the change in Lindsey's musical interest would have been a nice transition for the group, too. I always listen to "Planets of the Universe" or "Sorcerer", wishing that they HAD been saved for a Mac album. Ironically, it's the existence of Say You Will to which the other ends of the decade's B-N trilogy (TISL, SYW, UTS can attribute their special poignance.

Hearts are broken all over again. Let's hope they don't waste more time and begin healing them.

[michelej1]

For me, Say You Will achieved something extraordinary; by contextualizing Lindsey's Gift of Screws tracks -- each one improved -- with Stevie's new tracks (post-Dance) and tracks from Rumours-era and the 80s, they make meaning grow exponentially (the gift Mac gives these two artists).

Your entire post was eloquent. As to the above comment in particular, I would say that lending Stevie's vocals to Lindsey's songs and Lindsey's voice, guitar and production to Stevie's songs could not help but make the album something more than 2 solo projects slapped together. Even the simple process of overdubbing vocals makes it something more, something it wasn't before and something I want to have and analyze for new meaning.

Aside from Stevie's new songs that Johnny Stew mentioned, I also liked Stevie's contribution to Miranda and Lindsey's work on Thrown Down. Given the latter's subject matter, it necessarily says something more with Lindsey on it than it would have with just Stevie, Sharon and Lori.

Call it "Fleetwood Mac" or call it Buckingham Nicks with a "very special" bassist and drummer sitting in. It doesn't matter. What you get from the 4 of them still is quite different than what you get from TISL, Meantime, UTS or any solo project. One is not a substitute for the other.

Sure I'd like them to work together on a new album from the ground up. Lindsey said he would like to do that himself. But original material or not, BN is always going to be a different animal than LB and SN are apart and I want to keep hearing from that hybrid.

There's something fascinating and creative even in the process of melding two solo albums together, that I'd like to explore and experience. Put hydrogen and water together and there's a different element, even if that element is "only" water. Stevie and Lindsey have the same chemistry. It results in something "new" even if it's not the new I'd most prefer. I'd most prefer 5 band members. That's what I dream about at night. But I'll take 4 over no band and no continued growth, history and evolution in the relationship between its remaining members.

Michele

[Sarah]

Plus the change in Lindsey's musical interest would have been a nice transition for the group, too. I always listen to "Planets of the Universe" or "Sorcerer", wishing that they HAD been saved for a Mac album.

Interesting point here.

TISL was a mega letdown for me. Stevie's SYW songs (minus Silver Girl) were pretty much good, but a couple of TISL gems would have been so much better with SYW, I think. Planets, Sorcerer, FFG. Hell, even Candlebright (it's still Nomad to me) would have gone well near the portion of the album with Say Goodbye and Goodbye Baby. I really wish that would have happened, considering that we know Lindsey's played it before; I can't help but wonder what he would do to it. I guess that's a double-edged sword - some fans would probably bitch about an album of old songs that we've all heard in demos. :rolleyes:

[Villavic]

I think Fleetwood Mac is probably too much of a brand now for that. Especially since the Rumours lineup had the successful Dance reunion, and Lindsey and Stevie stuck around for SYW. I don't think the world would give new front people a chance... especially in concert, when the pressure is on to sing the Lindsey/Stevie/Christine hits.

.

Yes, that's true. Would you see a Beatles with Paul, Ringo, and 2 new guys? No way. Fleetwood Mac is well known as the Rumours lineup. If they change radically not one but several members, that's another band

[Chrislit18]

I figured it would at least sell a million records. I think a major radio hit would've helped that. I think the Dance was just different...mainly because of the reunion aspect, and the live footage.


Agreed. I think that the poor choices they made concerning the album singles was another problem. sure, Peacekeeper and SYW are good songs. I wont deny it. But what was majorly popular in 2003? Rap/R&B [wasnt that the year that Beoncyes solo album came out?], and then the major hit of 50 Cents 'Get Rich', and then of course stuff like Evanessance and Maroon 5 exploded.

Could Peacekeeper really go against something like This Love?
NO. It is not as catchy, therefore-the mainstream will not pick it up. IE Teenagers, the biggest music buyers of America. Plus the fact that these young people are going against artists in thier 50s didnt help.

So what should the album single have been?
I really cant tell you, sorry.

the Catchiest song on there is probably....RTTG. even SYHA would have been a better choice. People love lovesongs. [hence why Christines songs did so well, you cant go wrong with writing about love.] I dont know, while I love this album, and sing most of its songs on a daily basis, I just can't really see any of them tearing up the airwaves. even now. a cool music video would have helped. not just a 'live' preformance of peacekeeper. oh well.
Thrown Down, with an innovative video [not with the band members in focus, remember, today EVERYTHING is about image unfortuanately], released at the right time, yeah it could have done top 40 maybe.
Then of course, the last two tracks would have sucked as singles, people dont want to cry when they listen to the radio [Goodbye Baby does that to me, i dont know about anyone else, and Say Goodbye has the same effect, but I dont cry during that one.]
But you know what, come to think of it, EFO could have been a big hit. everybody loves songs about cheating these days :lol:

The fact that it wasnt the entire Rumours line up really screwed them too. I mean sure, Stevie came back, and Lindsey, but its just not the same thing without Chris. Her harmonies were missed on tracks such as Thrown Down, Smile at You, and even Silver Girl.

It is safe to say though, they will NEVER recieve the commercial success they had during the Rumours line up in the 70s-80s ever again. Ok, sure, record with Christine again, but it still wont fix Stevie and Lindseys voices, they defenately arent the same as they were back then, and people do not respond well [it really is a shame how LBs voice has gotten, his voice used to be so beautiful (Oh Diane is my favorite vocal of his BTW)] Stevies deepness to her voice is turning many new fans off. I think the only way to get back to how they once were, would to have a CM song as the lead single, but pick a catchy one.

Say You Will is really a work of art though, but it had no chance against the music industry of today.

[Sarah]

I just have to roll my eyes right now a little bit.

Why would FM even give a damn about competing with Maroon 5 or any of that stuff for radio time? They didn't even bother making a proper video for their singles! They were barely singles at all. And realistically, how much were the members out there talking up the cd? A few appearances come to mind, but really, they just put the thing out there, and 850k people bought it up like that, no additional effort required.

They've sold millions and millions of records. They didn't need to prove anything with SYW except that they were, in Lindsey's Mirage-era words, "still doin' it". They made SYW an artful, respectable album. It's sold reasonably well and made some amount of money for the label and the group Not to mention that they toured the **** out of it for 2 years. Arena after arena. That's the real cha-ching for the band members, anyway.

I think it sucks, quite frankly, that so many people apparently feel like this band needs to be vindicated by radio airplay or other types of exposure and sales to new fans. FM has received a lot of praise over the last 30 years. If someone hasn't heard of them or given them a listen, that is their own damn fault.


That's just my $0.02.

[Chrislit18]

I just have to roll my eyes right now a little bit.

Why would FM even give a damn about competing with Maroon 5 or any of that stuff for radio time? They didn't even bother making a proper video for their singles! They were barely singles at all. And realistically, how much were the members out there talking up the cd? A few appearances come to mind, but really, they just put the thing out there, and 850k people bought it up like that, no additional effort required.

They've sold millions and millions of records. They didn't need to prove anything with SYW except that they were, in Lindsey's Mirage-era words, "still doin' it". They made SYW an artful, respectable album. It's sold reasonably well and made some amount of money for the label and the group Not to mention that they toured the **** out of it for 2 years. Arena after arena. That's the real cha-ching for the band members, anyway.

I think it sucks, quite frankly, that so many people apparently feel like this band needs to be vindicated by radio airplay or other types of exposure and sales to new fans. FM has received a lot of praise over the last 30 years. If someone hasn't heard of them or given them a listen, that is their own damn fault.


That's just my $0.02.


The thing is, I dont feel that way either about radio play. Id RATHER that they didnt get all mainstream again, then people would only like them because they're 'popular' not because the music is good

Im just saying, they had a chance to get mainstream success again, and didnt take it. im just pointing out the fact that they could have went that way.

I love Say You Will, at this point, probably more than Rumours [shocker eh?]. I think people are stupid for overlooking this album, Mirage too. Mirage is probably my favorite album of thiers at this moment in time. but just because of one or two 'alright' songs, its 'not as good' as Rumours [TBT, I prefer the 'stinkers' on Mirage to Gold Dust Woman and Oh Daddy].

Im sure that all FM wanted to do with SYW was put out thier art, and just do appaerences to promote it here an there. and by no means am I saying it is a failure, 850.000 albums is amazing, especailly for a band who went through as much ***** as FM did concerning the line up changes, and the time between studio albums with S/L.

I agree with your comments Sarah, 100% about people feeling that what is on the radio is popular, and in no means was I trying to say that SYW would have been better had it sold more, I was just stating what could have happened had it have some more radio play.

[mylittledemon]

The thing is, I dont feel that way either about radio play. Id RATHER that they didnt get all mainstream again, then people would only like them because they're 'popular' not because the music is good


But...but...Rumours...and Tusk...and the white album...Tango in the Night...and even Mirage to a certain degree were all "mainstream" albums. And the music was good. Fleetwood Mac IS a mainstream band. I would say so, anyway. I'm agreeing with you in the sense that they shouldnt change their sound, or write "singles" just to sell records...but Fleetwood Mac has done that regardless.

[kathy1]

i kind of like the album. i don't listen to it much.

[Chrislit18]

But...but...Rumours...and Tusk...and the white album...Tango in the Night...and even Mirage to a certain degree were all "mainstream" albums. And the music was good. Fleetwood Mac IS a mainstream band. I would say so, anyway. I'm agreeing with you in the sense that they shouldnt change their sound, or write "singles" just to sell records...but Fleetwood Mac has done that regardless.
right, but I am just saying, that these days, the only reason that kids listen to music is that its on the radio a lot. not because it is good.

Fleetwood Mac was probably THE mainstream band of the late 1970s. there is no denying that. But back then at least people didn't judge music entirely on popularity [look at Jimi Hendrix, he only had like 1 top 40 hit, the 'All Along the Watchtower' (well, I think thats the title of it, its the Bob Dylan cover), but look how many people thought he was a great muscian.]

But FM should not go mainstream again, I'm sorry, but I dont want to hear everyone at school talk about them just because theyre popular. [Well, I dont think I helped that by writing a music review on Rumours for my school newspaper, but its not like theyre all gonna go out and buy the album, ya know?]

I hope that clarifies things. I dont want to make it seem like they were NEVER mainstream, god no. Just these days, they are better off just doing what they do best, making amazing music, regardless of popularity.

[buckymcnix]

and Tusk...were all "mainstream" albums. .

tusk was mainstream??

[David]

Say You Will, for me, is practically a return to form: the best album any of the four members have been involved with since Tusk. Is it as great as Tusk or Rumours? No. But, as I told a friend of mine, if I could only have albums as great as Tusk or Rumours in my collection, I'd either have 2 albums or 40 albums, and that's it. For me, Say You Will achieved something extraordinary; by contextualizing Lindsey's Gift of Screws tracks -- each one improved -- with Stevie's new tracks (post-Dance) and tracks from Rumours-era and the 80s, they make meaning grow exponentially (the gift Mac gives these two artists). It achieved two things in tandem: providing catharsis to the era's insensitivity/pain through the resolution of their mythic love affair. It invited the audience to return to ritual. I think every track plays its role (even the mid-album Stevie trilogy, which provides a survey of her entire career and spiritual development in three songs). I have more thoughts, but you get the general idea.Great post! I don't understand everything you're talking about, but I liked what you said. My opinion on the album (which I haven't heard very much) is pretty negative. But I approach Fleetwood Mac Marshall McLuhanesquely: the medium is the message. There is no other message to me. The album fails on that level & it's pretty disheartening because it wasn't what I've come to expect from them. As a sonic artifact, it's misjudged or something. Something went wrong, & I think it was the members themselves losing their abilities or maybe Mark Needham & cohorts, who shouldn't have been involved because maybe you had two conflicting styles of sound. I've always hated the direction some pop was taking (or is taking) of all high end & screwing around with the gain.

[mylittledemon]

tusk was mainstream??

I would say so. The less mainstream of probably all the Fleetwood Mac albums (of the Lindsey and Stevie lineup). but it had radio friendly stuff. And 4 million people bought it. So I'd say that mainstream.

[markolas]

It's not a dud to me. I haven't listened to this (or anything by Mac) in forever, but there's some really nice stuff on it, though not so much Stevie's songs (Thrown Down & Silver Girl are pretty good, Goodbye Baby is okay; even EFO, probably - the others, not so much). Someone mentioned people being put off of her voice now because it's deep - that's not really the issue with me - it's the way she sings. It's like, her voice has changed and she doesn't know how to use it now. Or something.

That anyone expected SYW to sell millions of copies seems unbelievable to me. Anyone over the age of about 25 is not going to do that; it has nothing to do with the quality of the material. That's really a no-brainer.

And I'll admit to being less a FM fan than a fan of SN, LB, & CM, so if they all just did solo albums from now on, you wouldn't hear a peep out of me.

[kathy1]

i haven't listened to any of my cds in awhile either.

[mylittledemon]

i haven't listened to any of my cds in awhile either.

Yeah I am still a CD buyer, but they are starting to take up space! I do put everything on my iPod though...

[gldstwmn]

i like the Chris Lord Alge mix of SYW better.

So do I. It's a better mix of the guitar and makes the song has more kick to it. It's the version I always use when burning CD's.

[mylittledemon]

So do I. It's a better mix of the guitar and makes the song has more kick to it. It's the version I always use when burning CD's.

Def more "radio" friendly. I think it could've been a stronger single had they used that version. I think it was considered the "radio edit" though...I have it on a CD...not sure where I got it from.

[buckymcnix]

I would say so. The less mainstream of probably all the Fleetwood Mac albums (of the Lindsey and Stevie lineup). but it had radio friendly stuff. And 4 million people bought it. So I'd say that mainstream.


i guess i remember when it came out and thinking how it wasn't mainstream. . . especially when the first single was tusk itself.

i guess i look at it as a more groundbreaking/risktaking/wtf are they doing album that the mainstream turned it's nose up at. (4 mil compared to the 20 mil of rumours)

i know this is a minor point - lol - but i love tusk so much . . . i hate to hear it called mainstream.:lol:

[jbrownsjr]

there are some solid songs on this album....

the opening track is extremely vanilla... (big mistake)

another problem i have with this album is the running order , it lacks a good flow...
the mix lacks a warm sound... maybe that's because christine is absent..

i am never compelled to play it again...

maybe it is a dud

[DavidMn]

I live here in Minneapolis and these 2 assholes have been ripping any and every artist except Prince(whom they suck up to endlsssly) for as long as I can remember, so what they have to say means nothing to me.:mad:

[billwebster]

I really like the album SYW because it has quite a few songs of high quality.
And the arrangements of Lindsey's songs are all exquisite - those of Stevie not so much with their overabundance of electro-acoustic guitar plonk plonk.

It's a very long album and would have been a double-LP. So it's no wonder that some "filler" is on there, but which songs are considered filler depends on personal taste. I always skip around on it, but I'm happy that it's as long, so I can do that.

And if it's been a "dud" at the cash register, that can only be down to the way that the label promoted it. When it came out, the labels still had very reserved attitudes towards online communities like myspace, if they even existed then, so they didn't use them like they do these days.

The 1st single choice of "Peacekeeper" is somewhat debatable. There could have been a better choice.

[mylittledemon]

I really like the album SYW because it has quite a few songs of high quality.
And the arrangements of Lindsey's songs are all exquisite - those of Stevie not so much with their overabundance of electro-acoustic guitar plonk plonk.

It's a very long album and would have been a double-LP. So it's no wonder that some "filler" is on there, but which songs are considered filler depends on personal taste. I always skip around on it, but I'm happy that it's as long, so I can do that.

And if it's been a "dud" at the cash register, that can only be down to the way that the label promoted it. When it came out, the labels still had very reserved attitudes towards online communities like myspace, if they even existed then, so they didn't use them like they do these days.

The 1st single choice of "Peacekeeper" is somewhat debatable. There could have been a better choice.


I agree on everything you're saying. I think the album needed one strong "rock" track...like "the Chain" off of The Dance CD. I think the new songs on the Dance were very strong. I would've much rather have seen the Mac release SYW as the double album it could've been. The 2 songs on the SYW special edition were fantastic. Then again it may have been less successful as a double CD.

I think the band promoted it enough...the video for Peacekeeper...plus they did the song on the Today Show. I think they just needed a STRONGER track. And SYW is a great song, but not a strong one.

I would like to see them do an Unplugged kind of performance and re-work some of the old tunes. Maybe film it with the current lineup of the Mac...and then release a new studio CD, along with the live one.

[JazmenFlowers]

SURPRISED?? WHY??? Cher's concerts are great!! No doubt her tours are so successful..
amen. I will always consider the Farewell show I saw front row as the most entertaining concert ever. it was everything a concert should be. amazing.
I think that the poor choices they made concerning the album singles was another problem.
yep. Fleetwood Mac and Stevie's biggest problem has been and still is promotion and making the connection to fans. which I don't understand. their PR people need to be kicked in the ass.

[michelej1]

Regarding the album length, it surprised me to hear that the Eagles' new album is a double album. I think it is selling for $11.98.

SYW was more expensive. It will be interesting to see what kind of numbers it does.

Michele

[mylittledemon]

Regarding the album length, it surprised me to hear that the Eagles' new album is a double album. I think it is selling for $11.98.

SYW was more expensive. It will be interesting to see how what kind of numbers it does.

Michele

Why they went to bed with Walmart on that album I have no idea...they probably got "X" amount of money up front to sell exclusively to them...and they know they'll make more money touring. So...Yeah I dont thinks its gonna sell very well. Its very "averagey" and uninspiring. A decent album in the catalogue...but not gonna sell well. They dont really have very many strong songs on it.

[Sarah]

I think the band promoted it enough...the video for Peacekeeper...plus they did the song on the Today Show.

The video for peacekeeper was a joke, and the Today performance sounded like crap. It was way too cold for them to be playing outside... Lindsey's guitar sounded like hell.

And also, I hate the Eagles. Barf.

[mylittledemon]

The video for peacekeeper was a joke, and the Today performance sounded like crap. It was way too cold for them to be playing outside... Lindsey's guitar sounded like hell.

And also, I hate the Eagles. Barf.

Yeah I think it was a little out of tune from what I remember. They shouldve just done SYW. I like the Peacekeeper video...the live aspect of it...but they should've put clips of other stuff in there.

I personally, still wanna know what song that was they were playing in the SYW documentary on the Very Best of Fleetwood Mac. It had a really cool guitar part. You see dolphins jumping in the water...then you hear Lindsey playing and then he says "Where is everybody?"