Scotsman.com (Interview)

[MacMan]

Sun 30 Sep 2007
http://living.scotsman.com/people.cfm?id=1553662007

'Joe Walsh and I were doing so much cocaine we were sure we were going to die'
CHRISSY ILEY

STEVIE NICKS lives in a huge house in Pacific Palisades. As you'd expect, it favours the same kind of gothic, velvet fabric she wears on stage and has sported in publicity shoots over the years - lush and seductive, from the more-is-more school of decoration.

I wait with her dogs in the kitchen, where her assistant has prepared snacks. One Yorkshire terrier has the same blonde hair as Nicks, and it falls into a 1970s-style fringe. The dog growls at me, baring tiny, sharp teeth. Another is wearing a coat. Nicks's assistant tells me that the singer spent thousands of dollars on the pet, believing the dog was stressed and had alopecia. It turned out that the pooch is a Chinese Yorkie, the mother having got lucky with a Chinese crested canine - bald of body and hairy of face - at the breeders. The dogs weave in and out of Nicks's heels as she brings me into the living-room.

You get the impression that Nicks loves to be interviewed. She can always delve into her drug-addled past for a good story. Her life with Fleetwood Mac was one big, bad soap opera: unmissable, lucrative, tragic, addictive. She has had many rock-star lovers, including Don Henley and Joe Walsh of The Eagles, and two members of Fleetwood Mac - Mick Fleetwood, with whom she's still very friendly, and Lindsey Buckingham, with whom she's not. Buckingham was the love and hate of her life. The unravelling of him made for some pretty good songs, such as 'Landslide'.

Nicks's solo career has outshone that of Buckingham or the rest of Fleetwood Mac. Her greatest hits album, Crystal Visions, features a haunting version of 'Landslide' - deeper, growlier, sadder, especially when she sings the words "I'm getting older". She's 59 and you might expect her to look a little tragic. In fact, she looks much like a slightly less airbrushed version of her publicity photos: the eyes big and brooding; the skin peachy soft; and the long hair vibrant and lustrous. She's wearing her trademark chiffon top with multiple layers.

You might imagine that she's hypersensitive, histrionic, sad, ravaged, bitter - there are many things that have gone wrong with her life - but she's not. She is feisty. She is the kind of woman who has always said yes and never regretted it.

And through it all, she wrote an amazing collection of songs, including Fleetwood Mac's 'Rhiannon', and 'Edge of Seventeen' from her solo album Bella Donna. This year, she has been playing mostly in Vegas and before that she was on tour with some of the other former members of Fleetwood Mac.

Before Nicks joined Fleetwood Mac, she was in a band with Buckingham, called Buckingham Nicks. They became lovers, and it seems that no matter whom they subsequently fell in love with, they could never fully get over that relationship.

"He wasn't ever able to revel in any kind of joy for my success for Bella Donna," recalls Nicks. "He would always start an argument - 'We're really not here to discuss your solo records, Stevie,'" she mimics - despite the fact that Bella Donna was laced with lines about him. "Oh, there's tons about him on that album," she says. "Even now I'm still writing about Lindsey. I always write about Lindsey - a line or two in every song. I pull him, the drama queen, back in whenever I need a dramatic moment. To this day, he provides me with so much stuff to write about. I thank him for that. Do you know, I gave him a signed copy of Bella Donna. He left it leaning against the recording studio wall for a month. I took it back, crossed his name out, and gave it to somebody else."

Bella Donna came out in 1981, but she recounts the slight as if it were yesterday. She says that she and Buckingham did 105 shows together two years ago and she felt she was walking on eggshells through every one of them. "Nothing ever changes," she says, almost relishing the irritation. "The way we are is similar to the way it was 30 years ago. Really, Lindsey never got over us breaking up in 1976, even though he is now married to a very nice woman and has stunning children. He has lots of issues and he blames Fleetwood Mac for us breaking up and he blames Fleetwood Mac for not letting him play the kind of music he wanted to play."

Nicks, though, doesn't seem to blame anyone, and explains why some former lovers can become friends and others can't. "I think Lindsey could never enjoy who I am because I've been that same person since he met me. Compare that to Tom Petty, who could invite me to go on the road and I ended up doing 27 shows for him. It was wonderful. I did not get paid - Tom paid my extremely expensive expenses instead. I went because I wanted to be with Tom and for the love of what we were doing. Tom would say, 'Here's Stevie Nicks, isn't she great?' We've always been very good friends because Tom is confident; Tom is not threatened by me."

She continues: "Mick Fleetwood is my dear friend. We, too, had a bad break-up because Mick fell in love with my best friend Sara, hence the song 'Sara'. It was painful and terrible. Not only did I lose Mick but I lost my best friend. I forgave Sara three months later and forgave Mick six months later. They were married for 18 years and now I'm godmother to his two five-year-old girls from his current marriage."

After all this, though, she doesn't rule out another Fleetwood Mac reunion. "Everyone could use the money, especially Mick and John [McVie], as they don't write. They don't get the publishing royalties that Christine [McVie], Lindsey and I get. They are going to want to play until they drop dead. I'll decide later. And if Lindsey has an epiphany, where he changes into a completely different person and suddenly realises he has no reason to complain about anything, who knows? But I don't think people change. I don't think I've changed since I was about 15 years old."

Maybe knowing who she was has been the key to her survival. Fleetwood Mac were so famous in their day, you wonder if it was hard for her to adjust to no longer being quite so famous. You also get the impression that the band itself was not her entire world. Probably, she was more interested in writing her own songs, taking her own drugs and having her own rollercoaster love affairs.

Does she have a man in her life now? "No, I don't. I had a relationship three years ago with someone I'd gone out with a long time ago. It didn't work out then and it didn't work out now. It just proved my theory that you can never go back. Before that, in 1997, around the time of The Dance, I went out with somebody for a little over a year who was quite enamoured with me. I decided he was way too young for me, though. I was nearly 50 and he was nearly 30. We had a riot but I said that eventually he would make me feel extremely old, so I ended it. But I'm never not open to the possibility of romance."

She says that her last relationship ended, or rather never really took off, because she made a huge amount of money in a publishing deal, and she was thrilled and excited but she couldn't share it. "I was tickled, thrilled, and I made the mistake of telling somebody who was struggling in this business. As the words came out of my mouth, I could see that he didn't think it was funny. So I knew our relationship was never going to work because I can't be a person who is not going to share that moment."

In fact, she shares the moment with me: she found out she'd made 7 million from "that little song 'Landslide'". "I wrote it in 1973 and it was about whether I should continue my relationship with Lindsey - 'I took my love, I took it down'," she sings softly. "And that was like taking your ego down from the mantelpiece, trying to find out whether this love affair was about the music or what. Was I willing to be in a relationship that was going to be difficult? Was it worth throwing away? Would it get better? And I decided to give it another chance.

"So, anyway, now I need to find the kind of guy who finds my whole life hysterical. I need one who is richer and more powerful, who thinks it's all a hoot." Nicks says even her assistant, "who is beautiful, talented and 39", can't find a man. "And I'm 59 and think I'm pretty fantastic. So what's up? Where are all the boyfriends? But I believe that there is a God and He will fill my life with work. I am never lonely, but this is a big, old house to be in all by myself. I am selling it - it's too big for me and my little dogs."

She adds: "My relationships were consistent until about ten years ago. I had some beautiful men in my life. I was passionately in love with Joe Walsh, for example. He was very rich, very famous, a huge rock star. He would come to my house and my friends would be over, and he would say, 'I don't know these people, get them out.' So I would throw them all out. He just wanted to be with me. It was flattering and irritating in equal parts. I could never have been married to Joe, but we were all so high at that point. Joe and I were doing so much cocaine, we were sure we were going to die.

"Joe became sober first and then I went to the Betty Ford clinic. No one did coke around me after 1985. I thought the whole world had stopped doing it but it turns out they were just being respectful." She talks about getting over her mountainous drug addiction as if all she was doing was getting over a cold. Is it true she has a hole in her nose? "I do. If I wanted to put a huge, gold ring through it, I could. A gold ring with diamonds. Sometimes with my nieces and goddaughters, I just want to say, 'Do you want to take a cigarette and put it through my nose?', just to gross them out, to get across to them this **** can hurt you. Check it out, I've got a gaping hole." She thrusts her head back but I decline the invitation.

"The hole in my nose was due to the fact that I used to have such headaches," she continues. "I would dissolve an Aspirin in water, take an eye dropper and put the Aspirin up my nose to take the pain away - without knowing that Aspirin dissolves anything. My whole nose could have collapsed."

That's the great thing about Nicks - much of her could have collapsed, but it never did. "Despite the coke, at least I still had a brain - I came out of Betty Ford and I felt capable of fixing this situation. But nobody would leave me alone about it. They told me to go and see a shrink to talk about everything, that I needed to have follow-up treatment. I really wasn't missing the drugs, but I got the name of a doctor from somebody and went to see him. 'I'm here because the world doesn't think I can do it by myself,' I told him. And he put me on a drug called Klonopin, a complex and dangerous derivative of Valium.

"I went from two blue pills in the morning to four blue pills; then it was two white pills in the morning and at bedtime. He just kept upping my dose. If I went without it for two days, I would start to shake. I was shaking all the time - shaking so hard that people would look at me. I thought I had Parkinson's. I can honestly say I lost most of my 40s to this drug. It was eight years of my life gone. Your 40s are the last vestige of your youth and mine was ripped away from me by this jerk. One day, I got my assistant to take everything that I took, and I said I would sit with him in case he died. 'I want to see how this affects you,' I told him, 'because I think I'm dying.' So he took it all." She recounts this story as if it was the most normal thing in the world - like Cleopatra might have had her slave taste her food for poison.

"He was a very good friend," Nicks goes on. "He was in the middle of setting up my stereo system and he just passed out. So I decided I should get off Klonopin. The doctor said he didn't think it was a good idea. That's what he always said.

"I told him I was going into rehab and he said, 'No, I can cut your dose down,' but I had made my mind up. I was in there for 47 days and it made the detox from cocaine look like a walk in the park. My hair turned grey and my skin moulted. I couldn't get out of bed. I couldn't stand up in a shower. I thought I was going to die. But after 47 days I came out shining on the other side. I had a new lease of life. It's been easy for me to stay sober. I could still drink alcohol recreationally because I'm not an alcoholic, but for my menopause I take a drug called Neurontin. It handles the menopause brilliantly, but if you take so much as a nip of tequila it makes you very sick."

During her time on Klonopin, Nicks says she put on a lot of weight. "When I went to this doctor, I weighed nine stone and I ended up 12 stone. He watched me turn into a fat blob." She's not a fat blob now, I tell her. "That's because I'm wearing a good top. You should get one." She can't remember who made it, so she has me come round to the back of her and look inside for the label. And that's how the whole interview's been, really - she's let me look inside.

"My life is always open," she says. "I love my work. I have so many projects I want to do. I am going to have my children's story made into an animated movie. It's about a ladybug and a goldfish, and I've already cast Angelina Jolie as a goldfish. I feel that something really good is coming for me. It might be a person, it might be music, but something good is coming into my life."

Crystal Visions: The Very Best of Stevie Nicks is released by Warners

Go their own way
FLEETWOOD MAC were a highly influential and successful band, but were plagued by internal disputes and personnel changes.

They began as a British blues combo in the late 1960s and slowly evolved into a pop/rock act. In 1974, Stevie Nicks and then boyfriend Lindsey Buckingham joined the band "as a package", and took their positions alongside Mick Fleetwood and another couple, John and Christine McVie.

The band endured a host of changes throughout their career, but these five were considered the definitive line-up in 1975.

Unfortunately for them, the two couples in the band split not long after this. Fortunately for the public, this led to enormous creative and personal tensions, and spawned Fleetwood Mac's most successful album Rumours. Released in 1977, it is the tenth highest-selling album of all time. Its hit singles include 'The Chain', 'Go Your Own Way' and 'Don't Stop'.

In an interview last year, Buckingham hinted at a Fleetwood Mac reunion tour next year. But for now recording and touring plans are on hold.

[Kris10723]

That's a really great interview. Thanks for posting. It had me cracking up at some of the things she said. She's such a funny girl. I get the feeling that something has happened between she and Lindsey recently and that's why they're bickering back and forth at each other in different interviews. She talks so highly of him when they're on good terms but when they aren't, Lindsey...Watch out!

[equeen102289]

No, I don't. I had a relationship three years ago with someone I'd gone out with a long time ago. It didn't work out then and it didn't work out now.

I want to know who she's talking about!

[carrie721]

Nicks says even her assistant, "who is beautiful, talented and 39", can't find a man.

o rly :laugh: :laugh:

lol @ her spending thousands on a hairless dog. that was great.

my eyes glazed over when i saw "klonopin." so over it.

[njova]

I wonder why she still thinks lindsey hasn't gotten over their relationship even though like she says he's married and has kids.

[Tango]

Thank you very much for the article. I don't know who's funnier, Stevie or the interviewer, Chrissie! "She thrusts her head back but I decline the invitation."

At least now we actually know what happened to the Bella Donna album she left for him! Very funny! "I pull him, the drama queen." Stevie was definitely in a playful mood doing this interview. It's great stuff.

Stevie didn't get paid while touring with Tom. "Tom paid my extremely expensive expenses instead." Sister Honey, "It's a high price for your luxury . . . " Tom should have just put her on salary!

$7 million on ONE song? I guess all that advice Stevie's been giving to singers is good advice!

[AliceLover]

WOW!

Stevie just gets angier and angier towards Lindsey in every interview. Its almost comical. She was on fire when this interviewer came to her. WOW! Crazy stuff.

Angelina Jolie......LOL!!!!! :lol:

Screw the movie Stevie, make an album for Christs sake.

[buckymcnix]

I wait with her dogs in the kitchen, where her assistant has prepared snacks. One Yorkshire terrier has the same blonde hair as Nicks, and it falls into a 1970s-style fringe. The dog growls at me, baring tiny, sharp teeth. Another is wearing a coat. Nicks's assistant tells me that the singer spent thousands of dollars on the pet, believing the dog was stressed and had alopecia. It turned out that the pooch is a Chinese Yorkie, the mother having got lucky with a Chinese crested canine - bald of body and hairy of face - at the breeders. .

MAYBE IT WAS MOJO?

Buckingham was the love and hate of her life. .

WAS?

"He wasn't ever able to revel in any kind of joy for my success for Bella Donna,"
Do you know, I gave him a signed copy of Bella Donna. He left it leaning against the recording studio wall for a month. I took it back, crossed his name out, and gave it to somebody else." .

Oh i bet that made the OTHER person feel real good -
"oh look - i got lindsey's reject."


Nicks, though, doesn't seem to blame anyone, .

except klonopin :eek::lol:

I did not get paid - Tom paid my extremely expensive expenses instead. .

could you imagine the bill?
maybe he should have paid her instead?:angel:.

"And if Lindsey has an epiphany, where he changes into a completely different person and suddenly realises he has no reason to complain about anything, who knows? But I don't think people change. I don't think I've changed since I was about 15 years old." .

you think she is really this upset with him or they are just playing it up for the cameras so to speak?



"Check it out, I've got a gaping hole." She thrusts her head back but I decline the invitation. .

DUDE - if stevie tells you to look up her nose, for god's sake, you look up her nose!:mad:

"The hole in my nose was due to the fact that I used to have such headaches," she continues. "I would dissolve an Aspirin in water, take an eye dropper and put the Aspirin up my nose to take the pain away - without knowing that Aspirin dissolves anything. My whole nose could have collapsed." .

this is new to me - before i have only heard her blame the hole on coke.


"It handles the menopause brilliantly, but if you take so much as a nip of tequila it makes you very sick." .

lol - just a "nip of tequilla" -

During her time on Klonopin, Nicks says she put on a lot of weight. "When I went to this doctor, I weighed nine stone and I ended up 12 stone. He watched me turn into a fat blob.".

first brilliantly and now stones . . . oh how british of her :)



I feel that something really good is coming for me. It might be a person, it might be music, but something good is coming into my life." .

hang on stevie, I'm on my way - :lol:

[darklinensuit]

Before that, in 1997, around the time of The Dance, I went out with somebody for a little over a year who was quite enamoured with me. I decided he was way too young for me, though. I was nearly 50 and he was nearly 30. We had a riot but I said that eventually he would make me feel extremely old, so I ended it.

Damnit, Stevie, you swore you wouldn't reveal about us until after I'm dead.:mad:

Thanks for posting. This is a great interview - the best in years. Klonopin & Rumours are saved for the end & she spells Lindsey's name right. :thumbsup: Wish this piece were longer, though.

I love the line about sticking the cigarette in her nose. "Ma, make crazy Aunt Stevie stop it, she's embarrassing me in front of my friends!":lol:

- Jake

[darklinensuit]

Oh, & the part about the assistant - If that were today she would have her own TV show after Paula Abdul's.:lol:

- Jake

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Great interview. Thanks for posting it! LMAO about the bald dog!

[danax6]

One Yorkshire terrier has the same blonde hair as Nicks, and it falls into a 1970s-style fringe.Yeah, but does it wear platform boots?

Mick Fleetwood, with whom she's still very friendly, and Lindsey Buckingham, with whom she's not. Buckingham was the love and hate of her life.Oh, here we go again. :rolleyes:

"Even now I'm still writing about Lindsey. I always write about Lindsey - a line or two in every song. I pull him, the drama queen, back in whenever I need a dramatic moment.Said from one drama queen to another.

Do you know, I gave him a signed copy of Bella Donna. He left it leaning against the recording studio wall for a month. I took it back, crossed his name out, and gave it to somebody else." Now who has issues with getting over things? It's been 25 years, Stevie. And re-gifting is horrible.

Really, Lindsey never got over us breaking up in 1976, even though he is now married to a very nice woman and has stunning children. He has lots of issues and he blames Fleetwood Mac for us breaking up and he blames Fleetwood Mac for not letting him play the kind of music he wanted to play."

<SNIP>

I'll decide later. And if Lindsey has an epiphany, where he changes into a completely different person and suddenly realises he has no reason to complain about anything, who knows?

Oh, come on. What does he have to complain about? Sure, 25 years ago he complained. A lot. But he's the one that wanted to continue with Fleetwood Mac right after SYW, whereas you did not. The only complaining he's done lately is about how you and Mick presented him with a scenario where you had to move your mics even closer to each other. Other than that he's had nothing but nice things to say about the latest Fleetwood Mac endeavor. :shrug:

And oh hay, no mention of Christine this time.

"I think Lindsey could never enjoy who I am because I've been that same person since he met me.Ehm, but you were in a relationship for years before you joined Fleetwood Mac. Lindsey never enjoyed you? That sounds really wrong. :laugh:

I was nearly 50 and he was nearly 30. We had a riot but I said that eventually he would make me feel extremely old, so I ended it."Score! :laugh:

Nicks says even her assistant, "who is beautiful, talented and 39", can't find a man. "And I'm 59 and think I'm pretty fantastic. So what's up? Where are all the boyfriends?It's a good thing they have each other then. :laugh: And there aren't any boyfriends in the Netherlands either. :mad:

I had some beautiful men in my life...Joe Walsh, for example.Uh, okay.

Check it out, I've got a gaping hole." She thrusts her head back but I decline the invitation. That? Is disgusting. I bet Michelle was totally thrilled by this. :laugh:

It's about a ladybug and a goldfish, and I've already cast Angelina Jolie as a goldfish.Oh no, no, no. :(

[danax6]

my eyes glazed over when i saw "klonopin." so over it.OMG, me too. I skipped over that entire paragraph. Blaaaaah.


you think she is really this upset with him or they are just playing it up for the cameras so to speak?
Please. They thrive on this. :laugh:

[jannieC]

What a great interview- thank you for posting this. I *love* these recent interviews with Stevie. She seems so much more real and hilarious. (The bald bodied dog cracked me up) I know that the Lindsey lovers will go crazy regarding her bashing, but I still say she's entitled to feel (and say) whatever she wants about her past relationships. And holy sh*t I can't believe she made 7 million off Landslide- that is awesome.

[kathy1]

thanks for posting the interview.

[buckymcnix]

What a great interview- thank you for posting this. I *love* these recent interviews with Stevie. She seems so much more real and hilarious. (The bald bodied dog cracked me up) I know that the Lindsey lovers will go crazy regarding her bashing, but I still say she's entitled to feel (and say) whatever she wants about her past relationships. And holy sh*t I can't believe she made 7 million off Landslide- that is awesome.

so do we think that 7 million was from the dixie chicks version and that 7 million represents what she made during that time from the song?

or does she get that huge amount every year?

[Tango]

so do we think that 7 million was from the dixie chicks version and that 7 million represents what she made during that time from the song?

or does she get that huge amount every year?

I took it to mean the TOTAL of what that one song raised since she wrote it.

[Serrart]

Fantastic interview, thanks! I always love to see how she can trash Lindsey with a smile on her face.

Romy

[shackin'up]

She says she's all in the present, but talks about the past all the time. Great read by the way. She'll never loses her humour. But she can bash lindsey every day in interviews, he makes better music in the present than she does. And that's what it's all about for me.

[Serrart]

She says she's all in the present, but talks about the past all the time. Great read by the way. She'll never loses her humour. But she can bash lindsey every day in interviews, he makes better music in the present than she does. And that's what it's all about for me.

I don't think his new music is better than her repertoire but, obviously, de gustibus.

Romy

[Rhiannon79]

Thank you so much for the article. That trips me out about the signed copy of Bella Donna. Amanda

[tuigirl]

wow..what a great interview, pretty funny in places:lol:
Awww...but poor Linds, he seems to be right in at the moment..oh dear., I hope they kiss and make up soon.

[michelej1]

I get the feeling that something has happened between she and Lindsey recently and that's why they're bickering back and forth at each other in different interviews. She talks so highly of him when they're on good terms but when they aren't, Lindsey...Watch out!

I would say that things went downhill some time toward the end of the SYW tour. When Stevie did that very first Vegas show replacing Celine Dion, you could tell she was mad at Lindsey in interviews then and things have not gotten better on her part since.

During the tour itself, they seemed to be on pretty good terms. When SYW first came out and the publicity started in 2003, they were fighting in the press. Gradually, that friction eased and once the tour got underway, everything seemed fine. I listened to them and thought, "Man, it used to be bittersweet. Now, it's just sweet.":lol:

Today, it's just bitter! Michele

[StreetAngel86]

Angie as the goldfish :lol: oh man I love Stevie.
Whoever will the ladybug be?

She says she's all in the present, but talks about the past all the time. Great read by the way. She'll never loses her humour. But she can bash lindsey every day in interviews, he makes better music in the present than she does. And that's what it's all about for me.

you know, i totally agree. and maybe if stevie released some CURRENT stuff, we would be able to reassess this. but i really like Stevie & Lindsey's demos, more so than their released stuff. I love how lindsey doesn't give a sh!t about what people think and does experiemental stuff with his music. Stevie needs to try something completely new :thumbsup:

[ShangriLaTroubl]

so do we think that 7 million was from the dixie chicks version and that 7 million represents what she made during that time from the song?

or does she get that huge amount every year?

I read somewhere she had made a "few million" from the Dixie Chicks' cover. After all it was the most played song of 2002. I'm betting she's talking about the Dixie Chicks version

[Hawkeye]

but for my menopause I take a drug called Neurontin. It handles the menopause brilliantly, but if you take so much as a nip of tequila it makes you very sick."


who wants to make bets that in a few years we'll be hearing about the horrors of Neurontin:



USA Today, May 2018
Stevie Nicks looks towrds the Edge of Seventy

Stevie is currently working on a chilldrens movie based on her song Goldfish and the Ladybug, which she says is for real this time. She's 100 percent happy right now but recalls how her late 50's were stolen from her by a drug she thought was helping her menapause.

"Yeah that freaking Neurotin just like caused me to forget 70 percent of my songbank. I could only remember about 15 of my songs, it was awful.
.
.
.
.
.
Oh yeah and Lindsey sucks.

[jannieC]

so do we think that 7 million was from the dixie chicks version and that 7 million represents what she made during that time from the song?

or does she get that huge amount every year?

I would think she meant 7 million total- her original version, The Dance version, and then the Dixie Chick version (which is painful but I'm glad she's making money from it). Oh, and The Smashing Pumpkins (which I *love*) version!

[AliceLover]

I don't think his new music is better than her repertoire but, obviously, de gustibus.

Romy

No, but it sure is great to have new material from him, unlike the Crystal Visions tour, oye. :lol:

[PenguinHead]

:blob2:Brilliant! who wants to make bets that in a few years we'll be hearing about the horrors of Neurontin:



USA Today, May 2018
Stevie Nicks looks towrds the Edge of Seventy

Stevie is currently working on a chilldrens movie based on her song Goldfish and the Ladybug, which she says is for real this time. She's 100 percent happy right now but recalls how her late 50's were stolen from her by a drug she thought was helping her menapause.

"Yeah that freaking Neurotin just like caused me to forget 70 percent of my songbank. I could only remember about 15 of my songs, it was awful.
.
.
.
.
.
Oh yeah and Lindsey sucks.

I love how Stevie calls Lindsey a drama queen! And revealing to me was her explanation of the line in Landslide "I took my love...I took it down." I always thought that was a little vague -'took it down where?" Of course, the meaning only becomes clear after being unearthed from Stevie's underworld. She took her love down from a mantle! Of course! lol So classic Stevie.

I really appreciate her candor when it comes to her issues with Lindsey. While she appreciates and respects Lindsey's professional talents, they clearly have long-standing personal issues. I don't take sides with either. It's between the two of them. For me its about the music not the drama. And I agree, Stevie should put more emphasis on her future and minimize the constant rehash of the past. Just like her recent set lists, what occupies her mind is all about what was, as opposed to what will be.

[StreetAngel86]

who wants to make bets that in a few years we'll be hearing about the horrors of Neurontin:



USA Today, May 2018
Stevie Nicks looks towrds the Edge of Seventy

Stevie is currently working on a chilldrens movie based on her song Goldfish and the Ladybug, which she says is for real this time. She's 100 percent happy right now but recalls how her late 50's were stolen from her by a drug she thought was helping her menapause.

"Yeah that freaking Neurotin just like caused me to forget 70 percent of my songbank. I could only remember about 15 of my songs, it was awful.
.
.
.
.
.
Oh yeah and Lindsey sucks.



:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
is she beating him with her walking stick yet

[rubytuesday]

Thanks for posting that. It's cool that the interview is with The Scotsman too.

[Steviefan49]

who wants to make bets that in a few years we'll be hearing about the horrors of Neurontin:



USA Today, May 2018
Stevie Nicks looks towrds the Edge of Seventy

Stevie is currently working on a chilldrens movie based on her song Goldfish and the Ladybug, which she says is for real this time. She's 100 percent happy right now but recalls how her late 50's were stolen from her by a drug she thought was helping her menapause.

"Yeah that freaking Neurotin just like caused me to forget 70 percent of my songbank. I could only remember about 15 of my songs, it was awful.
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Oh yeah and Lindsey sucks.

OMG... I'm DYING laughing at this one! LOLOLOL... :lol::lol::lol: Freakin Hilarious.. It is a great interview.. but that's "Our" Stevie! LOL.. I do love her " being REAL".. LOL

[David]

When Stevie talks about all her old boyfriend rockers, she refers to their jets & their clothes & their high life. She never says, "I dated the guy who wrote Hotel California & I learned from him," &c. It's made me kind of question her journey to be recognized by the Highwaymen as a good songwriter rather than just a rock chick. She always wanted to write songs that lived up to the standards set by her idols: The Eagles, Warren Zevon, Tom Petty, &c. So I always figured that was more important to her than the trappings of fame -- both her own & those of her boyfriends. Was I naive?

[michelej1]

She never says, "I dated the guy who wrote Hotel California & I learned from him,"

Thank heaven she never says that, because then I'd have to hang myself. They never say that about her either.

She told us that Tom said she writes her songs herself, but I'd give an eyetooth to hear Tom praise her songwriting ability myself, like she praises his talent. Having him concede that she made INTK rock just isn't enough. I don't mind FM taking her for granted -- because look what they have to put up with -- but I resent the inequality I perceive in her relationship with these other rockers. It's great that they love her like a little sister or cherished amore, but do they respect her as a writer? Michele

[danax6]

She always wanted to write songs that lived up to the standards set by her idols: The Eagles, Warren Zevon, Tom Petty, &c. So I always figured that was more important to her than the trappings of fame -- both her own & those of her boyfriends. Was I naive?Maybe. It reminds me of how Stevie used to go on and on about how she was determined to get Leather and Lace done, but had to start all over every time Don Henley told her it was crap.

It's also interesting if you look at her choice of boyfriends over the years. Most of them were in the same field but had some sort of advantage on her. They were someone she was dependent on or looked up to.

[Serrart]

No, but it sure is great to have new material from him, unlike the Crystal Visions tour, oye. :lol:

I see your point. The fact is that his new material, with the exception of Shut us down that I consider a masterpiece, didn't give me much. But I'm glad he's happy, his family is happy, his life is happy.
Stevie's material is always more intriguing for me, moreover now she seems to have a new energy. I'm hopeful we'll have new songs from her soon.

Romy

[JohnL]

I see your point. The fact is that his new material, with the exception of Shut us down that I consider a masterpiece, didn't give me much. But I'm glad he's happy, his family is happy, his life is happy.
Stevie's material is always more intriguing for me, moreover now she seems to have a new energy. I'm hopeful we'll have new songs from her soon.

Romy

I too believe we will soon have some new stuff from Stevie. It may just be a couple of soundtrack songs but it will be new...and I also think it will not just be old demos redone.

As soon as I started reading this thread, I knew someone would chime in and start the Lindsey vs. Stevie talent discussion. Oh well...I guess it was inevitable. My money is on Stevie each and every time.

[HejiraNYC]

Sun 30 Sep 2007
http://living.scotsman.com/people.cfm?id=1553662007

She continues: "Mick Fleetwood is my dear friend. We, too, had a bad break-up because Mick fell in love with my best friend Sara, hence the song 'Sara'. It was painful and terrible. Not only did I lose Mick but I lost my best friend. I forgave Sara three months later and forgave Mick six months later. They were married for 18 years and now I'm godmother to his two five-year-old girls from his current marriage."



I may be out of the loop, but isn't this the first time Mama has ever actually admitted that "Sara" was about Sara Fleetwood? I recall her always being a bit dodgy about "Sara" in interviews - that it was vaguely about falling in love, or that it was just about relationships. Then there was all the speculation that it was about one of her abortions. Or is she just throwing out more bullshirt in this interview? :shrug: I'm as puzzled as ever about the lyrics... Instead of saying "Sara, you're the poet of my heart..." shouldn't she be saying "Sara, you're a low-rent back-stabbing piece of trash?"

I'm just sayin'...

[carrie721]

^ i just read it as more doublespeak. maybe she just means that's where she got the name :shrug: :laugh:

[The Catdancer]

I may be out of the loop, but isn't this the first time Mama has ever actually admitted that "Sara" was about Sara Fleetwood? I recall her always being a bit dodgy about "Sara" in interviews - that it was vaguely about falling in love, or that it was just about relationships. Then there was all the speculation that it was about one of her abortions. Or is she just throwing out more bullshirt in this interview? :shrug: I'm as puzzled as ever about the lyrics... Instead of saying "Sara, you're the poet of my heart..." shouldn't she be saying "Sara, you're a low-rent back-stabbing piece of trash?"

I'm just sayin'...

You are a low-rent-back-stabbing piece of trash.

I'm just sayin'

[danax6]

^ i just read it as more doublespeak. maybe she just means that's where she got the name :shrug: :laugh:Me too. I didn't give it a second thought at all.

[Steviefan49]

I too believe we will soon have some new stuff from Stevie. It may just be a couple of soundtrack songs but it will be new...and I also think it will not just be old demos redone.

As soon as I started reading this thread, I knew someone would chime in and start the Lindsey vs. Stevie talent discussion. Oh well...I guess it was inevitable. My money is on Stevie each and every time.

I'm with YOU - John! My money is on Mama too! ;);)

[HejiraNYC]

You are a low-rent-back-stabbing piece of trash.

I'm just sayin'

Wha...??? :shrug:

[SpyNote]

I don't think "Sara" is that esoteric. She's said it's about Mick, Don, Sara, Fleetwood Mac, her great Aunt Sara, and everything that was going on in her life during the late 70s. And yes, I can see the abortion speculation ("there's a heartbeat and it never really died.") there, too. It's a song that's layered beautifully in production and multifacted in meaning. But I don't see it as being a mysterious song anymore.

[David]

Thank heaven she never says that, because then I'd have to hang myself. They never say that about her either.I only used that as an example. It could have been The End of the Innocence or The Boys of Summer. Stevie, a gal who says songwriting is the be-all & end-all for her, never gushes over the songs her rocker boyfriends have written, even when those songs are revered classics.

She told us that Tom said she writes her songs herself, but I'd give an eyetooth to hear Tom praise her songwriting ability myself, like she praises his talent. Having him concede that she made INTK rock just isn't enough. I don't mind FM taking her for granted -- because look what they have to put up with -- but I resent the inequality I perceive in her relationship with these other rockers. It's great that they love her like a little sister or cherished amore, but do they respect her as a writer?I don't think they do, at least not much respect. Petty has never said Stevie wrote an outstanding song. He used to say that she was a great harmony singer. Billy (?) from Smashing Pumpkins said back in '98 or so that Stevie was an excellent songwriter & was poised to re-establish herself, but he was never her boyfriend.

But you can't blame those guys for not thinking she writes great songs. If they don't like her stuff, they don't like it. Whaddya gonna do, know what I'm sayin?

[AliceLover]

I see your point. The fact is that his new material, with the exception of Shut us down that I consider a masterpiece, didn't give me much. But I'm glad he's happy, his family is happy, his life is happy.
Stevie's material is always more intriguing for me, moreover now she seems to have a new energy. I'm hopeful we'll have new songs from her soon.

Romy

Yes but I find it funny that us Stevie fans have been saying we can't wait for a new song. Its been 3 years and we have nothing.

[JazmenFlowers]

nothing extremely new here. I don't know why we're all so suddenly tired of seeing interviews re: cocaine, Klonopin and Lindsey. I mean, srsly. isn't this what it's all been about since 1986ish? those are the battles she's fought and what's made her a survivor. will we tire of hearing Kylie Minogue talk about her cancer scare? I'm just saying...it's not shocking...it's what interviewers want to discuss and it's certainly something Stevie wants to discuss...no big woop.

I took it back, crossed his name out, and gave it to somebody else."
can you imagine?

"uh, yeah. th-th-thanks Christine, I mean, Stevie."
So what's up? Where are all the boyfriends?
what's up homegirl? where have all the cowboys gone?

"I do. If I wanted to put a huge, gold ring through it, I could. A gold ring with diamonds. Sometimes with my nieces and goddaughters, I just want to say, 'Do you want to take a cigarette and put it through my nose?', just to gross them out, to get across to them this **** can hurt you. Check it out, I've got a gaping hole." She thrusts her head back but I decline the invitation.
OMG. :lol:

One day, I got my assistant to take everything that I took, and I said I would sit with him in case he died. 'I want to see how this affects you,' I told him, 'because I think I'm dying.' So he took it all." She recounts this story as if it was the most normal thing in the world - like Cleopatra might have had her slave taste her food for poison.
double OMG. now this is the kind of **** we should be discussing!

[JazmenFlowers]

You are a low-rent-back-stabbing piece of trash.

I'm just sayin'
why so upset?

I thought it was funny. it was obviously a joke.

[wolfontherun]

I may be out of the loop, but isn't this the first time Mama has ever actually admitted that "Sara" was about Sara Fleetwood? I recall her always being a bit dodgy about "Sara" in interviews - that it was vaguely about falling in love, or that it was just about relationships. Then there was all the speculation that it was about one of her abortions. Or is she just throwing out more bullshirt in this interview? :shrug: I'm as puzzled as ever about the lyrics... Instead of saying "Sara, you're the poet of my heart..." shouldn't she be saying "Sara, you're a low-rent back-stabbing piece of trash?"

I'm just sayin'...

Good point. Oh the mystery of Sara! Maybe she wrote the line after she had forgiven her.

[michelej1]

But you can't blame those guys for not thinking she writes great songs. If they don't like her stuff, they don't like it. Whaddya gonna do, know what I'm sayin?

Maybe she doesn't think they write great songs either. Maybe what they write, though classic, just isn't her cup of tea. Maybe she just wants Sarah McLachlan on her ipod. It's not that I don't think a song like New York Minute is sublime. I just can understand why she'd rather talk about the flowers Henley sent her. It also may be a matter of pride. If they discussed her music more, she'd probably do likewise. It would be rather belittling to go on and on about an erstwhile lover's genius when you're in the same profession and he never reciprocates.


Actually though, she did gush about getting to sing on Hotel California and it's obvious she loves Tom Petty's writing. Though, I don't need to hear her go into greater detail about her admiration, because she slobbers all over him enough as it is. If she's not into Joe Walsh or Don Henley's music, I couldn't blame her. Perhaps, it's not just preference. When you get that close to someone, you can't see their work objectively, which is why it's easier for for Chris Isaak to comment on her prowess than for someone's she's dated.

As for her platonic friends, I'm sure Tom doesn't like her stuff and it kind of bothers me that things are such a one way street in that regard. Luckily he has the good sense to say nice things about Lindsey though, so . . . yeah: what're ya going to do.:shrug:

Michele

[JazmenFlowers]

As for her platonic friends, I'm sure Tom doesn't like her stuff and it kind of bothers me that things are such a one way street in that regard. Luckily he has the good sense to say nice things about Lindsey though, so . . . yeah: what're ya going to do.:shrug:
how are you so sure about that? I find it hard to believe that Tom doesn't like her stuff...maybe he thinks some of her stuff is airy fairy, but saying he doesn't like her stuff? that's a stretch, imo. why would he work so much with her, guest vocal on her albums, let her guest vocal on his and invite her on tour if he didn't respect, appreciate and/or like her work?

and he has the good sense to say nice things? what? Stevie saying what she wants isn't good sense? how is either way good sense? I is so confurrrsed!

[danax6]

how are you so sure about that? I find it hard to believe that Tom doesn't like her stuff...maybe he thinks some of her stuff is airy fairy, but saying he doesn't like her stuff? that's a stretch, imo. why would he work so much with her, guest vocal on her albums, let her guest vocal on his and invite her on tour if he didn't respect, appreciate and/or like her work?I'm with you. It's kind of the same thing with Lindsey. Stevie herself has talked about how he mostly didn't think too much of her stuff, but he himself never brought that up. He's talked about her ability to create great melodies and how her songs are a great skeleton for him to work with, that she's talented in that regard, but he's never mentioned her songwriting. It's usually the outsiders that compliment her on her writing skills. So David is definitely on to something here, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they all think it's crap compared to their own stuff. Like it has been said, she never let herself out about other people's songs either. It could just be that it's something you don't do in the business, talk about your friends' abilities and inabilities.

[JazmenFlowers]

I'm with you. It's kind of the same thing with Lindsey. Stevie herself has talked about how he mostly didn't think too much of her stuff, but he himself never brought that up. He's talked about her ability to create great melodies and how her songs are a great skeleton for him to work with, that she's talented in that regard, but he's never mentioned her songwriting. It's usually the outsiders that compliment her on her writing skills. So David is definitely on to something here, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they all think it's crap compared to their own stuff. Like it has been said, she never let herself out about other people's songs either. It could just be that it's something you don't do in the business, talk about your friends' abilities and inabilities.
and in all honesty, it's not like Tom Petty nor Lindsey Buckingham are the end all, be all of rock music. anyone that says Stevie isn't a talented singer/songwriter is retarded. same for Tom and Lindsey.

now, I've become as cynical as the next dissention, but you start talking about Stevie's ability or whathaveyou and I'm gonna get a little perturbed. especially in comparing it to Tom's or Lindsey's and basically saying they think her music is **** too. yeah, my blood pressure's up.

I think a lot of of it, sadly, is because she is a woman. she's not given nearly enough credit.

[AliceLover]

and in all honesty, it's not like Tom Petty nor Lindsey Buckingham are the end all, be all of rock music. anyone that says Stevie isn't a talented singer/songwriter is retarded. same for Tom and Lindsey.

now, I've become as cynical as the next dissention, but you start talking about Stevie's ability or whathaveyou and I'm gonna get a little perturbed. especially in comparing it to Tom's or Lindsey's and basically saying they think her music is **** too. yeah, my blood pressure's up.

I think a lot of of it, sadly, is because she is a woman. she's not given nearly enough credit.

I wasn't saying that I thought Lindseys new stuff was better than all of Stevies stuff. I will always be a Stevie fan first. I am just ANNOYED that shes been on like 4 different tour type shows since she left FM in 04 and hasn't bothered to change a damn thing. Where as you have Lindsey on the other side of the spectrum putting out new albumS and changing his set around. Believe me I would kill for that one glimpse of magic from Stevie on stage (Rooms on Fire, Storms, Bella Donna), but she doesn't seem to give a **** to be quite honest.

[JazmenFlowers]

I wasn't saying that I thought Lindseys new stuff was better than all of Stevies stuff. I will always be a Stevie fan first. I am just ANNOYED that shes been on like 4 different tour type shows since she left FM in 04 and hasn't bothered to change a damn thing. Where as you have Lindsey on the other side of the spectrum putting out new albumS and changing his set around. Believe me I would kill for that one glimpse of magic from Stevie on stage (Rooms on Fire, Storms, Bella Donna), but she doesn't seem to give a **** to be quite honest.
I know boo. I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about other artists, dj's, etc. saying that.

besides, aside from the Lindsey element of your argument, I agree 100%. :thumbsup:

[AliceLover]

I know boo. I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about other artists, dj's, etc. saying that.

besides, aside from the Lindsey element of your argument, I agree 100%. :thumbsup:

Whats so wrong about the Lindsey element? He IS making new records and has a great set list. Where Stevie is not.

[danax6]

and in all honesty, it's not like Tom Petty nor Lindsey Buckingham are the end all, be all of rock music. anyone that says Stevie isn't a talented singer/songwriter is retarded. same for Tom and Lindsey.

now, I've become as cynical as the next dissention, but you start talking about Stevie's ability or whathaveyou and I'm gonna get a little perturbed. especially in comparing it to Tom's or Lindsey's and basically saying they think her music is **** too. yeah, my blood pressure's up.
I hope you don't think I was doing that. I was only saying that what she considers her friends, the Tom/Lindsey/Don crowd have rarely, if ever, brought up her songwriting abilities. And I also said that I don't think that means anything.

I don't want to turn this into a comparing contest, that's why I refrained from commenting on individual skills.

[JazmenFlowers]

Whats so wrong about the Lindsey element? He IS making new records and has a great set list. Where Stevie is not.
he's only made one new record. isn't he just talking about another new record? or maybe I missed something.

more importantly because he hasn't toured nearly as much as Stevie. it's all exciting and new and fresh for him and the fans. who woulda thought in 1981 that people would be bitching about Stevie keeping Dreams or Rhiannon or SDMHA or whatever in the setlist. besides, her setlists have never been that varied to begin with. it is what it is. so, it's the same setlist since 2005 or whatever...she's still plugging along just fine. we hate it, but the majority likes it. but that's a different discussion. the discussion now is with respect to using Lindsey's recent work, tour, setlist as a way to validate the argument that Stevie's being lazy. while the latter may be true, the former is a moot point.

what if Lindsey develops a setlist he's comfortable with and keeps the majority of the fans happy and he sticks with it. sure, right now he's throwing great setlists around, but after he's been touring for 10...15 years, those songs will be just as tired as Dreams and Co.

you just can't compare Stevie to Lindsey in terms of touring, imo.

[JazmenFlowers]

I hope you don't think I was doing that. I was only saying that what she considers her friends, the Tom/Lindsey/Don crowd have rarely, if ever, brought up her songwriting abilities. And I also said that I don't think that means anything.

I don't want to turn this into a comparing contest, that's why I refrained from commenting on individual skills.
nope, not at all. see post #55.

[danax6]

nope, not at all. see post #55.Missed that one. :wavey:

FWIW, this is what Lindsey said in 2003:

"I've built a studio in my new house, and I'd love for Stevie and myself to sit down and do some stuff from the ground up with two-part harmonies. If we had one complaint about this album, it's that we used a lot of older material, and a lot of mine was set in stone. Co-writing would be interesting. We've never done that."

He can't think it's all crap if he would consider co-writing.

[JazmenFlowers]

Missed that one. :wavey:

FWIW, this is what Lindsey said in 2003:

"I've built a studio in my new house, and I'd love for Stevie and myself to sit down and do some stuff from the ground up with two-part harmonies. If we had one complaint about this album, it's that we used a lot of older material, and a lot of mine was set in stone. Co-writing would be interesting. We've never done that."

He can't think it's all crap if he would consider co-writing.
exactly.

what a lovely quote and a lovely dream.

[michelej1]

how are you so sure about that? I find it hard to believe that Tom doesn't like her stuff...maybe he thinks some of her stuff is airy fairy, but saying he doesn't like her stuff? that's a stretch, imo. why would he work so much with her, guest vocal on her albums, let her guest vocal on his and invite her on tour if he didn't respect, appreciate and/or like her work?

and he has the good sense to say nice things? what? Stevie saying what she wants isn't good sense? how is either way good sense? I is so confurrrsed!

The comment about Tom's good sense had nothing to do with Stevie. I was saying that he at least has the good sense to say something nice about Lindsey's talent.

I don't think that Tom likes Stevie's songwriting or work ethic. Obviously, he has never said that he doesn't like her writing, but I just don't think he does. I have nothing to back that up. As far as him having her on his tour and her recording his songs, I never said he didn't recognize her audience allure and showmanship. Plus, you can like what Stevie brings to a song vocally, without being enamored of her songwriting. I'd love her for Gold, if she'd never written a song. Michele

[David]

I don't think that Tom likes Stevie's songwriting or work ethic.This is my view, too. It is a part of a bigger view I have that Stevie's main fans are ... her fans.

Obviously, he has never said that he doesn't like her writing, but I just don't think he does. I have nothing to back that up. As far as him having her on his tour and her recording his songs, I never said he didn't recognize her audience allure and showmanship. Plus, you can like what Stevie brings to a song vocally, without being enamored of her songwriting. I've listened to a lot of that audio of the Heartbreakers working on things with Stevie at Larrabee or Goodnight L.A. or elsewhere. To me, it sounds like the concentration, such as it is, is on the jam, not on the song. In other words, a group of musician friends of Stevie's who aren't terribly interested in her song per se but in farting around.

earlier, I was thinking of those Bella Donna days when Stevie wanted to be considered a good songwriter (which she achieved, by & large) & to have her Highwaymen give her a little pat on the shoulder & say, "Well, you wrote a good song." I just don't think that happened very often, at least with her generation of fellow musicians. It was some of the younger guys like Corgan who did this. Stevie benefited (as a lot of rock acts do) from reappraisal.

[buckymcnix]

didn't Tom take her to dinner and tell her to get off her ass and stop feeling sorry for herself and write the song herself because she is one of the best writers out there?

I know that doesn't say that he likes her stuff per se, but that in conjunction with always working with her and treating her like an equal etc . . . doesn't that equal at least admiration of her abilities.

and i really doubt that if lindsey didn't like her stuff he would be able to
a) keep himself from saying so and
b)work with her.
I just don't think he would even consider it anymore if he didnt like it.
And i find it hard that he would besmirch her tunes when they are such great vehichles for his guitar playing and production.

and just a quick aside on the nature of songwriters in general (being one and being surrounded by many great ones) it is a touchy business and generally people are more interested in showcasing their own songs and most of the compliments between songwriters goes on in private :angel:

[michelej1]

This is my view, too. It is a part of a bigger view I have that Stevie's main fans are ... her fans.


Well, the critics don't much like her and the male musicians don't seem to, but you do have a lot of female musicians citing her as a role model these days.

To me, it sounds like the concentration, such as it is, is on the jam, not on the song. In other words, a group of musician friends of Stevie's who aren't terribly interested in her song per se but in farting around.


We even had Waddy saying he used to make fun of her music in the early days and ask Lindsey how he could stand it, playing all of those songs about the fountain and the vine (or whatever it was he said). He wanted to take Lindsey out on the road and save him from . . . the velvet underground:lol:.But, of course, he eventually saw the light.

As for Lindsey, what he likes on a lot of Stevie's songs is that jam that you mentioned. The space that her songs leave for musicians to come in and riff.

She made me laugh the many times she recounted how he put his hand on her knee and said, "how do you do it" for Illume and also told her TISL was the best she'd ever done, because I'm not sure those comments were compliments! But you can look at him on the Tusk documentary and tell he likes Angel, whether he has ever said he does or not.

Similarly, through the live performances you can tell he liked YMLF too.

Michele

[buckymcnix]

She made me laugh the many times she recounted how he put his hand on her knee and said, "how do you do it" for Illume and also told her TISL was the best she'd ever done, because I'm not sure those comments were compliments! .

Michele

You really think he wasn't being genuine?
He was just blowing smoke up her . . . . er . . . let's not start any fresh rumours like that - :eek::lol: - but you think he was really meaning something snide or backhanded in his comments?
I thought he seemed impressed in a couple spots on the Destiny Rules Docudrama - ie . . .Thrown Down and def. Illume ( though i bet he wanted to throttle her when she busted out with the "you wouldn't say that to bob dylan" :lol:)

but just my interpretation of it of course/.

[michelej1]

didn't Tom take her to dinner and tell her to get off her ass and stop feeling sorry for herself and write the song herself because she is one of the best writers out there?



I don't think Stevie said Tom ever told her she was one of the best song writers out there. He just said "you write your songs yourself." And he might even have retracted that statement when he heard "That Made Me Stronger."

And i find it hard that he would besmirch her tunes when they are such great vehichles for his guitar playing and production.



You know, Lindsey and Stevie might besmirch anything about the other.

But speaking of great vehicles for him, why do people think he put the "kibosh" on Egan having SOTM on Egan's album? Do you think it was because he liked the song too much to have Egan do it and he knew FM was going to use it? I always wondered about that. Michele

[michelej1]

You really think he wasn't being genuine?
He was just blowing smoke up her . . . . er . . . let's not start any fresh rumours like that - :eek::lol: - but you think he was really meaning something snide or backhanded in his comments?
I thought he seemed impressed in a couple spots on the Destiny Rules Docudrama - ie . . .Thrown Down and def. Illume ( though i bet he wanted to throttle her when she busted out with the "you wouldn't say that to bob dylan" :lol:)

but just my interpretation of it of course/.

I don't know if Lindsey was being genuine or not, but I did think the wording (as Stevie relayed it) left room for another interpretation. Also, in addition to him leaving Bella Donna on the stair, Lindsey made Stevie mad when he didn't pick up TISL too. There was some point when he praised TISL and then she found out he hadn't even listened to it. So, then he did listen to it and then he praised her, but I think his compliments were the same before and after he heard it.

He has often spoken about Thrown Down and he seems to be really proud of it. And when he says, "I have no faith today" I think it is an answer to Stevie's lyric, "you've shaken my faith" in Thrown Down. It makes me go all gooey inside thinking about it.

Oh yeah, when Stevie said that thing about Bob Dylan, I'm sure Lindsey could have thought of a 1000 sarcastic things to say, but refrained commendably.

I also love the promo where Stevie's saying, "I knew you would hate it because I wrote it." And Lindsey says, "It's not because you wrote it. I just don't like the song." I wonder what song they were talking about.

Michele

[buckymcnix]

I don't think Stevie said Tom ever told her she was one of the best song writers out there. He just said "you write your songs yourself." And he might even have retracted that statement when he heard "That Made Me Stronger."

first - lol at him retracting it - i am typing from under the desk to say that i like "TMMS" in the same way i like the other demo sounding tunes stevie put on her box set.
second - i read a more in depth interview where she made it sound like he complimented her quite highly, but i imagine even the slightest praise from tom would sound like angels singing to her and can see how you might think she would exagerate it - know what i mean?


You know, Lindsey and Stevie might besmirch anything about the other.
touche :o

But speaking of great vehicles for him, why do people think he put the "kibosh" on Egan having SOTM on Egan's album? Do you think it was because he liked the song too much to have Egan do it and he knew FM was going to use it? I always wondered about that. Michele
I have to plead stooooopid on this one, all i have heard is a passing reference to a similar story a long time ago. sorry

[buckymcnix]

I don't know if Lindsey was being genuine or not, but I did think the wording (as Stevie relayed it) left room for another interpretation.

i was referring more to lindsey's actual comments from the docudrama - she plays them the four new demos and he says something (i certainly don't remember word for word lol )but it seemed to be a real pat on the back - paraphrased " if the other stuff is this good we are in good shape with this album" or "you go girl" :laugh:




I also love the promo where Stevie's saying, "I knew you would hate it because I wrote it." And Lindsey says, "It's not because you wrote it. I just don't like the song." I wonder what song they were talking about.

Michele

was this from say you will?

[Tango]

We even had Waddy saying he used to make fun of her music in the early days and ask Lindsey how he could stand it, playing all of those songs about the fountain and the vine (or whatever it was he said). He wanted to take Lindsey out on the road and save him from . . . the velvet underground:lol:.But, of course, he eventually saw the light.

As for Lindsey, what he likes on a lot of Stevie's songs is that jam that you mentioned. The space that her songs leave for musicians to come in and riff.

She made me laugh the many times she recounted how he put his hand on her knee and said, "how do you do it" for Illume and also told her TISL was the best she'd ever done, because I'm not sure those comments were compliments! But you can look at him on the Tusk documentary and tell he likes Angel, whether he has ever said he does or not.

Similarly, through the live performances you can tell he liked YMLF too.

Michele

:nod: Yep, Waddy said:
(when he was leaving Buckingham Nicks to go off on other ventures)

"Look you guys, I gotta quit. I just can't . . . I just can't back up these songs anymore." It was Stevie's lyrics that were driving me crazy, actually. (Laughing) And she knew it, you know. "I can't do it. I'm a dude! I'm a ****in' Rock&Roll dude! I can't stand here and be doing "the fountain and the velvet."

I think these guys love Stevie- they really do. But they're dudes, man. Lindsey and the heapin' helping of "testosterone." :laugh: And there's no doubt the fans are there for her too.

[JazmenFlowers]

The comment about Tom's good sense had nothing to do with Stevie. I was saying that he at least has the good sense to say something nice about Lindsey's talent.
oh ok.
I don't think that Tom likes Stevie's songwriting or work ethic. Obviously, he has never said that he doesn't like her writing, but I just don't think he does. I have nothing to back that up. As far as him having her on his tour and her recording his songs, I never said he didn't recognize her audience allure and showmanship. Plus, you can like what Stevie brings to a song vocally, without being enamored of her songwriting. I'd love her for Gold, if she'd never written a song. Michele
are you serious?! I see Bill has pointed out exactly what I was going to say so I won't go any further, but what you're basically saying is that Tom thinks her talent is next to none and she has a horrible work ethic, but would probably bring in some fans, revenue, attention, etc...? and Stevie has the ****ty work ethic?

[michelej1]

but i imagine even the slightest praise from tom would sound like angels singing to her and can see how you might think she would exagerate it - know what i mean?

Though, of course, Stevie never exaggerates!

I'm clueless about the SOTM thing too. He just obviously loved that song, but says Lindsey put the kibosh on having it on his album. Then, there's a demo where Stevie says she's going to use the song in about 2 years but, meanwhile, someone else could use it. She doesn't mention who that someone is who might use it, but I gather it was him. So, it seemed like she wanted Egan to record it too. I just always wondered if Lindsey didn't like Egan's version, didn't think it fit on Egan's album, or if he was saving the song for FM. It definitely gave him a great playing opportunity.

Michele

[buckymcnix]

:nod: Yep, Waddy said:
(when he was leaving Buckingham Nicks to go off on other ventures)

"Look you guys, I gotta quit. I just can't . . . I just can't back up these songs anymore." It was Stevie's lyrics that were driving me crazy, actually. (Laughing) And she knew it, you know. "I can't do it. I'm a dude! I'm a ****in' Rock&Roll dude! I can't stand here and be doing "the fountain and the velvet."

I think these guys love Stevie- they really do. But they're dudes, man. Lindsey and the heapin' helping of "testosterone." :laugh: And there's no doubt the fans are there for her too.


and i bet stuff like this really hit her hard and it changed the way she looked at her writing and helped her to develop it
.
and i think waddy was also stuck in that "i am a rock and roll dude" mindset but then grew as a person to realize that though stevie wasn't necessarily "dude- rock", she was doing something that was different and unique and something that left room for his own creativity to shine - so eventually she changed him ( or at least the way he looked at her lyrics) too

[michelej1]

was this from say you will?

Yeah, but it didn't make it to Destiny Rules. It was in the promo for Destiny Rules though. Lindsey was standing up against a wall and Stevie was really agitated and she was saying, "I knew you would hate it! I knew you would hate it because I wrote it." But it was only an excerpt and we don't know what song she was talking about and I guess that whole exchange was left on the cutting room floor. Michele

[buckymcnix]

Though, of course, Stevie never exaggerates!

Michele

nor lindsey - lol
(i flash to the tear he wipes away in the Destiny Rules Doc)

[danax6]

Butting in to say that I think there's a difference between liking someone's lyrics and them being good lyrics. The former is solely a question of taste. Tom Petty may not like Stevie's lyrics, and this is a big if in my opinion, but that doesn't make them any better or worse. :shrug:

And to provide some more quotes on the matter:

Bam Magazine, 1981: (about Lindsey) I'm surprised the two of you haven't collaborated on songs since you've been in Fleetwood Mac. You love to write words and he's a nut for melodies. “I'm surprised, too. I always wanted to. It's strange. You would think he would ask me, but I think he really doesn't like my lyrics very much. They're too spacey for him. We think differently, I guess.”

You and Petty obviously have a good rapport. Can you see yourself writing with him? “I think we will write together eventually. You see, Tom and I aren't going out. Tom and I aren't in love with each other, or haven't been in love and out of love. We're really just good friends so we probably could write together. Lindsey and I have so much behind us that it would be difficult to sit down and intensely get into lyrics. As it is he asks me, "Who's that one about? What are you talking about in that line? What does that mean?"

[buckymcnix]

Yeah, but it didn't make it to Destiny Rules. It was in the promo for Destiny Rules though. Lindsey was standing up against a wall and Stevie was really agitated and she was saying, "I knew you would hate it! I knew you would hate it because I wrote it." But it was only an excerpt and we don't know what song she was talking about and I guess that whole exchange was left on the cutting room floor. Michele

well that made me salivate a bit :eek:










ok wait - nope - it was dinner - the slow cooker chicken is ready.

but it def. intrigues me this promo you speak of - i haven't seen it - will have to do some youtube searching after dinner

[buckymcnix]

Butting in to say that I think there's a difference between liking someone's lyrics and them being good lyrics. The former is solely a question of taste. Tom Petty may not like Stevie's lyrics, and this is a big if in my opinion, but that doesn't make them any better or worse. :shrug:

And to provide some more quotes on the matter:

Bam Magazine, 1981: I'm surprised the two of you haven't collaborated on songs since you've been in Fleetwood Mac. You love to write words and he's a nut for melodies. “I'm surprised, too. I always wanted to. It's strange. You would think he would ask me, but I think he really doesn't like my lyrics very much. They're too spacey for him. We think differently, I guess.”

You and Petty obviously have a good rapport. Can you see yourself writing with him? “I think we will write together eventually. You see, Tom and I aren't going out. Tom and I aren't in love with each other, or haven't been in love and out of love. We're really just good friends so we probably could write together. Lindsey and I have so much behind us that it would be difficult to sit down and intensely get into lyrics. As it is he asks me, "Who's that one about? What are you talking about in that line? What does that mean?"

is that first quote about tom or bucky?

[michelej1]

As far as the testosterone goes, I know it really surprised me when Chris said that she wrote the music for Mystified and Lindsey wrote the lyrics, because there's something pretty feminine about those lyrics, "pretty" being the operative word. Michele

[danax6]

is that first quote about tom or bucky?I just edited... they were talking about Lindsey.

[danax6]

As far as the testosterone goes, I know it really surprised me when Chris said that she wrote the music for Mystified and Lindsey wrote the lyrics, because there's something pretty feminine about those lyrics, "pretty" being the operative word. MicheleDon't get me started on Lindsey's feminine side, please. :laugh:

[buckymcnix]

I just edited... they were talking about Lindsey.

thanks - and great info as always vanessa - no kidding -

:wavey:

When and if that damn clique gets around to making a "Vanessa Rocks?" Poll, I know where my vote falls. :thumbsup::laugh:

[michelej1]

Stevie also said, If I would try to write words for Lindsey they were too poetic. He would go "ugh! makes me sick" and then I would try to write something that wasn't so poetic and that wasn't good because that wasn't me and that wasn't inspired and so that's the difference: Lindsey would never say "I see the crystal visions" and I would never say "Shacking up is all you want to do."

Of course, today Lindsey would write with her and wants to record with her and, apparently, even wants to do a BN tour with her.

As far as lyrics go, sometimes you could have great songs and a bad lyrics or great lyrics and a bad song. However, in Stevie's case, I don't think a lot of people ever bother to look past the lyrics. If they feel alienated from those, then they don't go further, which is a shame, because you don't have to like a word in EO17 to know it's an incredible song.

Michele

[michelej1]

Don't get me started on Lindsey's feminine side, please. :laugh:

Well, that is fertile territory. When he was ruminating about how Chris made Stevie more feminine than she would be when left to her own devices, I was thinking, "How so? You're more feminine than Christine." Well when he's left to his own devices he is.

However, when he sets himself up in opposition to Christine, you really do get a nice passive v. aggressive passion play vocally. Michele

[danax6]

Lindsey made Stevie mad when he didn't pick up TISL too. There was some point when he praised TISL and then she found out he hadn't even listened to it. Wait, I apologize for going back a page but I missed some stuff. Where did you get this from? Stevie has talked about sitting down with Mick and Lindsey and listening to TISL and she mentioned him calling her from the car to compliment her on her work. To my recollection she never talked about him not picking up TISL like he did Bella Donna.

edit to include quotes with which to better illustrate:

Sonicnet, 2001: “Lindsey and Mick were here two weeks ago. I went back through the song vaults and I pulled 17 songs from a hundred years ago all the way up to now. We listened to Shangri-La, and we listened to the 17 demos, and Lindsey was knocked out. He really hadn't heard all these songs; I guess I just never really played them for him. He had no idea that I was going to present him with 17 songs; he thought maybe we were gonna work on a song. So he called me the next day and said, "I'm driving up the coast and I'm taking notes and I'm very happy with all these songs." So that's about the nicest thing he ever said to me, really. "I'm very happy with all this music" was like, "Oh my God, I can't believe he said that!"

I also love the promo where Stevie's saying, "I knew you would hate it because I wrote it." And Lindsey says, "It's not because you wrote it. I just don't like the song." I wonder what song they were talking about.
I don't think he said that last sentence, but it's been a while since I've watched All Access. I do believe the song in question was Say You Will.

[buckymcnix]

because you don't have to like a word in EO17 to know it's an incredible song.

Michele

i hope you don't think i am just being contrary here but i strongly disagree with that part.

"eye of the tiger" has the same basic guitar riff and chords yet it's a throw away -

eo17's words ARE that song to me.
and i am not talking "white winged dove" "ooh baby" parts here -
i am talkin the verses
death, growth, loss, lonliness, yearning
words that hint at images that are pretty foreign to the writer up to this point. Like this death really "shook" her.
a growing point in a life as well as songcraft

and just a personal experience with the song - (that i may be repeating :sorry:) - but this IS a very important song to me because it was released within days of my 18th birthday (yep - the other edge of 17) as well as days before the loss of my uncle bob and next door neighbor (who was more like a grandma )

i started to perform this song myself during the time when stevie was in the "uncool" phase. the first couple times i played it, i could barely sing out the first line - "just like the white- winged . . ."

people would be giggling and snickering and it just didn't go over.
the next time i played it i started right in with the first verse and didn't sing the "just like the . . . ohh, baby, ooh, said ooh" part and instead did a little ad lib vocal part there instead.

it was like night and day. people were riveted. and granted maybe they were thinking " is this that "white winged dove" song?" - but they listened to the verses and i really felt like it reached them in a different way.
then by the final time through i do sing that part and there wasn't any snickering.
people always come up and talk about it and i think the lyrics really do hit a chord in a understated (for stevie!?!) way.

[Tango]

i hope you don't think i am just being contrary here but i strongly disagree with that part.

"eye of the tiger" has the same basic guitar riff and chords yet it's a throw away -

eo17's words ARE that song to me.
and i am not talking "white winged dove" "ooh baby" parts here -
i am talkin the verses
death, growth, loss, lonliness, yearning
words that hint at images that are pretty foreign to the writer up to this point. Like this death really "shook" her.
a growing point in a life as well as songcraft

and just a personal experience with the song - (that i may be repeating :sorry:) - but this IS a very important song to me because it was released within days of my 18th birthday (yep - the other edge of 17) as well as days before the loss of my uncle bob and next door neighbor (who was more like a grandma )

i started to perform this song myself during the time when stevie was in the "uncool" phase. the first couple times i played it, i could barely sing out the first line - "just like the white- winged . . ."

people would be giggling and snickering and it just didn't go over.
the next time i played it i started right in with the first verse and didn't sing the "just like the . . . ohh, baby, ooh, said ooh" part and instead did a little ad lib vocal part there instead.

it was like night and day. people were riveted. and granted maybe they were thinking " is this that "white winged dove" song?" - but they listened to the verses and i really felt like it reached them in a different way.
then by the final time through i do sing that part and there wasn't any snickering.
people always come up and talk about it and i think the lyrics really do hit a chord in a understated (for stevie!?!) way.

I don't think you're contrary at all. I think it IS a power song, in terms of the sound, but it's more than just that. And it's in the lyrics, I agree. There's something sort of spiritual about Edge of Seventeen. I don't care how weird that sounds to anyone else. (Isn't that weird???) Whatever it is, I think that song grabbed on to people when the Bella Donna album came out and it remains the benediction for many Stevie Nicks fans.

[michelej1]

i hope you don't think i am just being contrary here but i strongly disagree with that part.


Don't get me wrong. I myself love the lyrics to EO17. I don't discount them at all. I'm just saying that if you do discount them you can still enjoy the song. After all, people do enjoy Eye of The Tiger and Bring on the Night as well. I think the instrumental has its very own excitement and power, especially as it has evolved over the years during Stevie's performance. The drum intro with the dueling percussionists is very exciting for me now all by itself.

For me, the lyrics are very meaningful and it's not about her uncle dying or John Lennon or anything else that she has described about their origin. It's the unspoken and barely understood pain of the person on the edge of 17 who seemed somehow broken-hearted that gets to me.

Vanessa, when I say Lindsey didn't pick up TISL, I don't literally mean that he left it laying against a step. But there was something where Stevie had it delivered to him or thought he received it when he hadn't. He didn't listen to it and Stevie thought he had. She sent it to him or something, then found out he never received the package and she was hurt. I will find the interview. But what's funny is, she found out he hadn't heard it AFTER he had already told her how much he loved it.

As far as the Destiny Rules promo, I don't know what Lindsey said. Something like, "It's not because you wrote it. It's the song." If they were talking about Say You Will, I'm surprised. It's like Christine was inhabiting Stevie's body for that song. Whether he liked it or not, FM definitely wanted that song on the album, because it's closest to the sound expected of them. Stevie's rarely written such linear lyrics in her life. She must have had some kind of fever. Michele

[buckymcnix]

It's like Christine was inhabiting Stevie's body for that song. Whether he liked it or not, FM definitely wanted that song on the album, because it's closest to the sound expected of them. Stevie's rarely written such linear lyrics in her life. She must have had some kind of fever. Michele

i haven't heard it put quite this way - but i find myself in agreement (except about the fever. i reckon it was heat-stroke.)
It was the pop gem that chris would have delivered, or at least it's from the same mineshaft:lol:.

[buckymcnix]

Don't get me wrong. I myself love the lyrics to EO17. I don't discount them at all. I'm just saying that if you do discount them you can still enjoy the song. After all, people do enjoy Eye of The Tiger and Bring on the Night as well. I think the instrumental has its very own excitement and power, especially as it has evolved over the years during Stevie's performance. The drum intro with the dueling percussionists is very exciting for me now all by itself.


i think i see what you are saying here -
that without concentrating on the lyrics there is something to connect to with the driving beat and overall feel of the instrumentation.

agreed.

[danax6]

Vanessa, when I say Lindsey didn't pick up TISL, I don't literally mean that he left it laying against a step. But there was something where Stevie had it delivered to him or thought he received it when he hadn't. He didn't listen to it and Stevie thought he had. She sent it to him or something, then found out he never received the package and she was hurt. I will find the interview. But what's funny is, she found out he hadn't heard it AFTER he had already told her how much he loved it.
Yeah, please find the interview. I have a hard time believing Lindsey would feel the need to lie to Stevie. If she asked, why not just say 'I haven't received anything yet'?. Unless he was that desperate to get her to do FM. :shrug:

All I have are dozens of quotes of her saying how good he thinks the album is. And according to her they listened to it together. Here's another one...

“I think that my cohort in crime Lindsey Buckingham thinks that my album is really good, or so he told me. He told me that this is the best thing that I have ever done, and he said it with a look on his face that I believed him.

[michelej1]

All I have are dozens of quotes of her saying how good he thinks the album is. And according to her they listened to it together. Here's another one...


Yes, I know they listened to it together. I think she listened to it with him because he didn't listen to it by himself the first time. Now, from an internet search, there's Us Weekly from June in the Nicksfix, which sounds like it's a combination of the Bella Donna incident and his reaction to TISL, but I also have a paper interview where she was hurt about his not having heard TISL which I will have to find.

But yes I know she did dozens of interviews saying they listened to it together and she described how he looked at her and said, "this song is about me" and she teased him and said "aren't you flattered" and all that good stuff. She talked about that as much as she talked about him putting his hand on her knee when he first heard Illume! Michele

[michelej1]

i think i see what you are saying here -
that without concentrating on the lyrics there is something to connect to with the driving beat and overall feel of the instrumentation.


Yes, very much so and the same thing with Stand Back. There's a charge in the music and a force or intensity in her performance that I find magnetic, even apart from the lyrics.

When I do get into the lyrics, I tend to focus on different parts over the years. How Still My Love has sounded so incredible these last couple of years that it induces faintness. So, when EO17 comes around, I am drawn into the link between the 2 songs and that "some time in the middle of the night I still think about you" part gets to me. I mean, it's this whole thing of being alone at night when your defenses and denials are down and you realize that you still miss someone and still remember your love for them.

In one song she's saying, "it's only me that's talking to you" and then in the other song, we actually hear what she's saying in the still of the night.

I don't know . . . as the years past, different parts of the song become my favorite focus and even if the lyrics only change slightly that change brings new meaning.

Michele

[Tango]

Just another thing that came to mind reading this article with regards to Stevie making a lotta money on Landslide. We've all read Stevie gave the rights to the song "Silver Springs" to her mother, Barbara Nicks long ago. I've been re-reading the Vare/Ochs book, "Everything You Want To Know About Stevie Nicks" (1984). It says this on page 112 (in talking with Glen Parrish and another acquaintance about her generosity among her friends):

"Naturally, there is going to be a down side to such exhuberant generosity. Some people will take advantage. Stevie has given to friends and family the royalties from her songs-- not unpublished works, but best sellers like "Sara" and "Rhiannon" with five figure incomes. She is said, in fact, to have signed over the publishing rights to "Rhiannon" to a former boyfriend who wanted to open a recording studio in South America. The project failed. Not long ago Stevie was approached by a young woman who (perhaps had heard about Robin Anderson) claimed to have leukemia and asked for help. The young woman- healthy as a horse, in reality- was welcomed by Stevie with open arms and sympathetic tears, and proceeded to spend a great deal of that "just us girls" money before being found out.

"There are people in her life who have taken advantage of her," Parrish acknowledged, "but I don't want to dwell on that. You're always going to have that when you're a celebrity. You can't help feeling a little guilty about having so much more than they do. Stevie will help because she's a sensitive person, and she will sometimes get hurt."


The books goes on to say she's gotten tougher and learned a little more, and the people around her look out for her, etc. Hopefully Landslide will continue to get some mileage. It's pathetic knowing how much waste went on in all their lives (maybe to some extent, it still does?). Mick- bankrupt twice! While Stevie may have gotten "tougher" she still seems sympathetic to Mick and John. She said she doesn't want to tour without Christine, she says she's been unhappy with Lindsey's attitude towards her- but in the end will she do it for Mick and John? Fleetwood Mac will make more money than Lindsey touring solo or Stevie touring solo. Will that loyalty drag her back for another round?

[David]

Yes, I know they listened to it together. I think she listened to it with him because he didn't listen to it by himself the first time. Now, from an internet search, there's Us Weekly from June in the Nicksfix, which sounds like it's a combination of the Bella Donna incident and his reaction to TISL, but I also have a paper interview where she was hurt about his not having heard TISL which I will have to find.

But yes I know she did dozens of interviews saying they listened to it together and she described how he looked at her and said, "this song is about me" and she teased him and said "aren't you flattered" and all that good stuff. She talked about that as much as she talked about him putting his hand on her knee when he first heard Illume! MicheleI've said it before & I'll say it again. I don't think he has any interest in the sound of her solo albums (& he's all about sound, remember). Stevie says he praised the Shangri-La album to her. Someone gave me a present a few weeks ago for my birthday & I said, "Thanks very much! I love it!" Then I took it over to Goodwill.

Oh, yeah. I bet Trouble in Shangri-La (or Bella Donna or Rock a Little or Enchanted) gets frequent airplay at the Buckingham household--probaby just as much airplay as Law & Order gets in the Nicks household.

Incidentally, I remember one comment Stevie made about Lindsey's solo work. It was back in 1981, in BAM, I think. She said, very kindly, that there was a great song (probably referring to Trouble) on his album. She added, also very kindly, that "some" of the album wasn't exactly her cup of tea, but that she wanted it to succeed so that Lindsey would be gratified & happy. Has she said anything about LB solo stuff since then? Did he give her a copy of Under the Skin? Is it on her workout playlist on the iPod, ya think?

Stating what I should think was obvious by now: These two have different tastes in music. I would never expect them to like each other's work outside the band. (They may not even like each other's work much inside the band.)

[danax6]

Incidentally, I remember one comment Stevie made about Lindsey's solo work. It was back in 1981, in BAM, I think. She said, very kindly, that there was a great song (probably referring to Trouble) on his album. She added, also very kindly, that "some" of the album wasn't exactly her cup of tea, but that she wanted it to succeed so that Lindsey would be gratified & happy. Yes, because if Lindsey was happy it made her life easier. She also didn't speak highly of his songs on Tusk, except for Save Me A Place and Walk A Thin Line, which she seemed to consider the most beautiful things he had ever written. Of course, now it's being said Tusk is Stevie's favorite FM album. :shrug:

Stating what I should think was obvious by now: These two have different tastes in music. I would never expect them to like each other's work outside the band. (They may not even like each other's work much inside the band.)I don't know. Their taste in music didn't really seem to differ when they were younger. Stevie obviously has more country roots in her, and she's talked about loving to listen to classic r&b like Aretha Franklin, but overall what they seemed to listen was pretty much the same for both. Then Lindsey made this switch somewhere in the late 70s and went on a path that Stevie couldn't really understand. I think it was the Australian radio interview from 1979 where she got asked about the new wave of music that had seemed to hit the world and she said she didn't want anything to do with it because she didn't understand it. She talked about Lindsey bringing in those tapes to listen to and she didn't care for it at all.

[michelej1]

Stating what I should think was obvious by now: These two have different tastes in music. I would never expect them to like each other's work outside the band. (They may not even like each other's work much inside the band.)


That's true and I see it as a human thing, more than a bad thing. Having to constantly be around something just breeds contempt. I know there was one interview where I think Stevie said she was just a little bit angry with The Beatles, because Lindsey never shut up about them when he was trying to teach her music. And I would think that same type of tedium applies to each other's songs that they have not only performed for decades, but also had to fight about and hammer out in the studio to begin with. Lindsey said his kids were tired of Under the Skin before it was released and I'm sure the FM members got tired of each other's music a long time ago, even if they liked it in the first place.

That Us Weekly article I was talking about is on nicksfix.com for June 2001 and it says:

What does Fleetwood Mac think of your new album?

Lindsey [Buckingham] said, “It’s the best thing you’ve ever done.” I signed a copy to him and a few days later it was still there. He never listened to it.

This is so much like what she says about Bella Donna (which isn't mentioned in the article) that it could be an editing mistake, but I also read elsewhere that he hadn't listened to TISL when she first gave it to him, not out of spite, because they were really getting along at the time. He just hadn't done it. It had to grow on me, but I do think TISL is her best album ever and I wouldn't be surprised if Lindsey thinks so too. Still, if they don't like each other's music that's understandable.

Stevie has said that Lindsey's instrumentation is layered and beautiful, but she doesn't like his angry words. Now, I don't agree with her about his lyrics, but whatever. To me, Miranda sounds almost like something she'd do and I'd love to know if she likes that song. Then, I think UTS contains some beautiful, non-angry lyrics about her and I'd give anything to know what she thinks of them too. But I also realize that these people don't see each other clearly. They are too close and they aren't going to have objective opinions and even if they did like something the other one did, they probably wouldn't want to admit it 85% of the time.

You have to sneak up on them and catch them unawares. Stevie never said she likes Second Hand News, but I look at her performing it and I think she does. So much so that she never even bothered to complain about the lyrics, which is so unlike her.

Even more importantly, I would bet money that she hates Red Rover, but there's something supportive about the way she stands up there and sings it attentively with Lindsey and claps for him after it's over that has her saying to me: "Man that song stinks, but he's my bandmate and I love him anyway."

Even if they did really like each other's music, you'd get tired of it eventually. With Christine gone, Stevie is stuck standing up there singing with him on ISA again and I feel sorry for the poor thing. When her harmonies are over, it's a wonder she doesn't kick up her heels and run off the stage. Instead, she very slowly strolls off, moving in time to the music. Heck, it's been almost 35 years, if he's not tired of Rhiannon and she's not tired of ISA, they are both saints.

Michele

[michelej1]

Of course, now it's being said Tusk is Stevie's favorite FM album. :shrug:



That's her version of pillow talk. Talking sexy to him doesn't work, but if you tell him those 13 months you spent making Tusk were the best moments of your life, you've got him wrapped around your finger. Honestly, if John McVie walked up to Lindsey and said Tusk was his favorite album too, I think Lindsey would be ready to die happy.

As for their musical tastes, I loved that diary entry of Cory's where she said Stevie started singing Southern Nights and Lindsey joined in with her. Even today, their preferences just have to overlap in some narrow respects. Of course, Lindsey may like a lot of things that he is not content to record. He may be reaching for more experimentation in the songs he actually releases, while the standards for what he listens to when he's relaxing at home are quite different. Michele

[danax6]

This is so much like what she says about Bella Donna (which isn't mentioned in the article) that it could be an editing mistakeIt's exactly what she said about Bella Donna, so my mind hasn't been made up yet. Could be an editing mistake, or they stole it from another interview.

Even more importantly, I would bet money that she hates Red Rover, but there's something supportive about the way she stands up there and sings it attentively with Lindsey and claps for him after it's over that has her saying to me: "Man that song stinks, but he's my bandmate and I love him anyway." If you watch bootlegs closely you can see her standing in the back mouthing along to the words even when her presence is not required. I know that's not a direct indication of whether someone likes the song or not, but she could also step back, take a sip of her tequila and think about what to have for dinner after the show.

Heck, it's been almost 35 years, if he's not tired of Rhiannon and she's not tired of ISA, they are both saints.Naturally, but that goes for their own songs also. Or Imagine, or Hey Jude or any which song you get exposed to more than a few dozen times a year.

That's her version of pillow talk. Talking sexy to him doesn't work, but if you tell him those 13 months you spent making Tusk were the best moments of your life, you've got him wrapped around your finger. Honestly, if John McVie walked up to Lindsey and said Tusk was his favorite album too, I think Lindsey would be ready to die happy.

I hope you're not serious. I've gone far with you in this discussion and I think you made some good points, but this I just can't agree with. What purpose would it serve Stevie now to placate him by saying Tusk is her favorite album? And it's not like she's always talked crap about Tusk, that was only right after when it turned out it wasn't selling as well as Rumours. That's Stevie's typical M.O. A few years after, as far back as 1986, she spoke fondly of Tusk, both the music and the recording process.

[michelej1]

If you watch bootlegs closely you can see her standing in the back mouthing along to the words even when her presence is not required. I know that's not a direct indication of whether someone likes the song or not, but she could also step back, take a sip of her tequila and think about what to have for dinner after the show.


Yes, I've seen her mouth the words to Christine songs while Christine sings and I assume that's because she likes them. I can't imagine her liking Red Rover.

Naturally, but that goes for their own songs also. Or Imagine, or Hey Jude or any which song you get exposed to more than a few dozen times a year.

People have more tolerance for their own songs than they do for someone else's. Just like they have more tolerance for their own bratty kids than they do for someone else's. This is precisely why Lindsey has said he didn't see himself still playing Rhiannon after all these years, but never commented that he doesn't know why he is still playing ISA after all these years as well.

To be sure, they have their own songs that they don't like and, consequently, don't sing. But of the ones they keep singing over and over, I'm sure they're more tired of the other person's.

I hope you're not serious. I've gone far with you in this discussion and I think you made some good points, but this I just can't agree with. What purpose would it serve Stevie now to placate him by saying Tusk is her favorite album?

I don't know that Stevie has said it's her favorite album. I just know that Lindsey keeps saying that she has. I'd be interested in just hearing her say that her own songs on Tusk are among her favorites, let alone his. And as far as what purpose they would have to placate each other, when they're getting along, they have every reason in the world to placate. When they're mad they say things out of anger and when they're loving they say things to be nice. And since Lindsey won't shut up about the way the band turned against him after Tusk didn't sell a zillion copies, I could see her saying it just to get him to be quiet.

In the Scotsman she talked about Lindsey complaining and she mentioned that in the Telegraph article too, that he is jealous of her because he never got the career that he wanted. Well, one of Lindsey's biggest complaints with FM is that they made it clear they would not support another Tusk. Lindsey just started saying that Stevie said Tusk was her favorite album in the last year. Based on his Tusk comments and her complaint comments, I'd say these two have probably had Tusk discussions in their last conversations and, yes, it's more than conceivable to me that she told him she liked the album just to placate him once and for all.

While she was at it, I hope the band all apologized to Lindsey for asking him to play with a guitar pick back in 1906 too, because then maybe he'd be quiet about that.

I was kidding about Tusk being her method of seducing him. But I am serious about them all knowing that he still cares very much about that album and that their reaction to the album still gets, um, under his skin.

For instance, when Christine was doing Meantime promotion and she sang the lyrics to Tusk and asked what did that even mean, I think she was having fun. She has always performed so exuberantly on Tusk that I think she does like the song. But I do think she picked that particular song from that particular album because she knows it's Lindsey's baby and she wanted to needle him back a little.

As for Stevie, even when Stevie said she listened to Tusk and now appreciated the tribal thread or beat that went on throughout the album and is glad that they made it, she never said she liked any of the songs that she had complained about when the album first came out. She was never like, "'That's all for Everyone' is so profound. I really love it now, even though I hated it before." And when asked about her favorite song of Lindsey's she had to go all the way back to Stephanie, which doesn't mean that's the only song of his she likes, but she didn't have songs just tumbling out of her head either. It's not like she was going, "oh there are so many to choose from. Let me think . . . "

Michele

[JazmenFlowers]

I hope you're not serious. I've gone far with you in this discussion and I think you made some good points, but this I just can't agree with. What purpose would it serve Stevie now to placate him by saying Tusk is her favorite album? And it's not like she's always talked crap about Tusk, that was only right after when it turned out it wasn't selling as well as Rumours. That's Stevie's typical M.O. A few years after, as far back as 1986, she spoke fondly of Tusk, both the music and the recording process.
agreed.

plus, hasn't Stevie made it public that she wasn't quite sure what to make of Tusk? remember the whole "I, Stevie Nicks, and Christine McVie had nothing to do with the making of this album" - or something along those lines. not that she didn't like the album, but didn't get it...at the time.

[danax6]

In the Scotsman she talked about Lindsey complaining and she mentioned that in the Telegraph article too, that he is jealous of her because he never got the career that he wanted. Well, one of Lindsey's biggest complaints with FM is that they made it clear they would not support another Tusk. Lindsey just started saying that Stevie said Tusk was her favorite album in the last year. Based on his Tusk comments and her complaint comments, I'd say these two have probably had Tusk discussions in their last conversations and, yes, it's more than conceivable to me that she told him she liked the album just to placate him once and for all.

While she was at it, I hope the band all apologized to Lindsey for asking him to play with a guitar pick back in 1906 too, because then maybe he'd be quiet about that.
We're going to have to agree to disagree on this, but I don't think you're giving them enough credit. I sincerely doubt their whole spiel is based on Lindsey's complaints about the band not liking Tusk and them forcing him to play with a pick.

Yes, I realize that last part was probably tongue-in-cheek, but I don't think it has anything to do with any of that. I've said it before and I'll say it again, there's been very little complaining coming from Lindsey except for the fact that he didn't want to play the lead in the McDays of Our Lives again. He brought up that certain people found it necessary to put Stevie's and Lindsey's mics closer together so they could look into each other's eyes better. I don't know about you, but I'd complain about that also. I think that's where the struggles are right now, it has nothing to do with the music itself or anything else. Heck, they aren't even going to work on another album, so why would he complain?

I will agree with you that they say stuff to placate each other, Lindsey keeping his mouth shut when Stevie was comparing herself to Bob Dylan is people's exhibit A, but I don't see why she wouldn't be sincere in telling Lindsey that Tusk is her favorite album. I see no reason for her to lie about that.

[JazmenFlowers]

In the Scotsman she talked about Lindsey complaining and she mentioned that in the Telegraph article too, that he is jealous of her because he never got the career that he wanted.
what? omg. I see where the interviewer alludes to that, but Stevie never said that and she would never say that.

can you point me to your factual basis for this assertion? I may have overlooked it.
As for Stevie, even when Stevie said she listened to Tusk and now appreciated the tribal thread or beat that went on throughout the album and is glad that they made it, she never said she liked any of the songs that she had complained about when the album first came out. She was never like, "'That's all for Everyone' is so profound. I really love it now, even though I hated it before." And when asked about her favorite song of Lindsey's she had to go all the way back to Stephanie, which doesn't mean that's the only song of his she likes, but she didn't have songs just tumbling out of her head either. It's not like she was going, "oh there are so many to choose from. Let me think . . . "
what's wrong with that though? has Lindsey said, "wow, Landslide is such a poignant and timeless classic"? as for Stephanie...she's always said that...and she even said because it means the most to her because he named it after her. she never has to think about it maybe because that answer never changes.

[danax6]

agreed.

plus, hasn't Stevie made it public that she wasn't quite sure what to make of Tusk? remember the whole "I, Stevie Nicks, and Christine McVie had nothing to do with the making of this album" - or something along those lines. not that she didn't like the album, but didn't get it...at the time.Yes, she said while listening to it in her private home she was slowly starting to understand what Tusk was all about, because she didn't before.

[The Catdancer]

Wha...??? :shrug:

My apologies, I totally misread your post. I'm sorry....

[The Catdancer]

why so upset?

I thought it was funny. it was obviously a joke.

I misread it. Sorry.

[michelej1]

what? omg. I see where the interviewer alludes to that, but Stevie never said that and she would never say that.


Stevie would and has said much worse than that. But the quote I was referencing was actually in the last Mojo. She said:

She continues, “But Lindsey and I have had many thing happen on-stage that’s not a long time ago. We have a very hard time with each other, and he has a very hard time with me because he didn’t go after a solo career and I did. He should have and he didn’t and it’s not my fault. But he blames me.”

So, when she said that, she kind of revived some of the comments she used to make so long ago when they didn't get along like:

I mean, I had platinum records and sold-out tours. Why did I need to be treated like this? There was plenty of jealousy in the air, but I felt so beaten down that I wanted to run away and hide."


what's wrong with that though? has Lindsey said, "wow, Landslide is such a poignant and timeless classic"? as for Stephanie...she's always said that...and she even said because it means the most to her because he named it after her. she never has to think about it maybe because that answer never changes.

There's nothing wrong with that. I never said there was. In fact, although I think they dislike more songs than they like of each other's I don't see a problem with that. I think the beauty of FM is that you have 3 very different song stylists working together.

No Lindsey has never said Landslide was a timeless classic. I never wanted him to say it and he may not think it is. I don't judge either of them if they don't like each other's music. As for Stevie saying Stephanie was her favorite song, she did have to think about it quite a bit before answering. That's what I found funny. She answered her favorite song of Christine's but had to think of one for Lindsey and I got the impression that none sprang to mind that quickly.

Vanessa, I don't think the problem with Lindsey and Stevie has to do with them singing with their mics closer together. Judging from Say Goodbye, I don't think Lindsey actually has a problem with doing that, but it did make Stevie and Mick look ridiculous for suggesting it.

As for Lindsey not complaining, I think I actually posted about 70 different UTS interviews from him and he complains in all of them. He still complains about Tusk quite regularly. However, he makes it known that he enjoyed the SYW tour quite a bit and pointed out that other people may not have enjoyed it as much as he did. Then, he said he got in trouble for saying that "they" might not have liked it.

I think the problem with Stevie and Lindsey right now is recording. He wants to do new music and not a rehash and she doesn't want to do new music. He doesn't want to do a pure nostalgia tour. I think that when they have been discussing the issue of whether or not to record the new music that Tusk probably did come up. Yes, I do think they are basically still arguing about the same creative needs that led him to want to do Tusk in the first place.

Lindsey would probably flip another solo album into a FM album, if Stevie would be willing to make a new one too. I do think he is still trying to get her to do something new and fresh and different, to push the envelope and whenever he talks about that need, he talks about Tusk. I do think they still talk about Tusk.

When Stevie hears something like Red Rover or Morrow, I am sure her first reaction is the same as it was when she first heard those Tusk songs:

If Lindsey had his way we'd be back to the garage anyway with nothing but garbage cans and worse yet full of garbage and four track recorders so he's very in to that. I personally, myself, don't want to go back and use garbage cans. I personally like the new recording technique cause I like to sound good and I like to sit and listen to it so I'm not really into it. But I like some of ths stuff that some of those new bands are doing and long as it sounds like funky old rock and roll, I like it. As soon as it starts to sound like Mars I don't like it.

No, I don't really think they are arguing about the guitar pick any more, but he does still have to mention it in 1 out of 5 interviews. And if the band would just apologize to him for asking him not to use one in 1906, maybe I could get a little rest at night. Of course, now he's using a guitar pick voluntarily himself, not just in the studio, but on stage as well. He does it to get a certain sound, but he won't say exactly what sound he is going for. So, I'm thinking the unprecedented pick probably has something to do with age. Probably arthritic. Poor fellow. Mind and body slipping away like that.

Michele

[highwaywomen]

I've read most of this thread and I thought I would throw in this quote from the book "Conversations with Tom Petty" by Paul Zollo. It came out in 2005. Pages 74-75.

Stevie came to me around '78. And she was this absolutely stoned-gone huge fan. And it was her mission in life that I should write her a song. And we were a little wary of Stevie. We didn't quite know whether to like Stevie or not, because we kind of saw this big corporate rock band, Fleetwood Mac, which was wrong, they were actually artistic people. But in those days, nobody trusted that sort of thing and we just kept thinking, 'What does she want from us?' And then, of course, she turned into one of my great, great friends forever. But Stevie was really adamant about me writing her a song.

And so I think that around late '78, she approached me about producing her first solo record. Now Stevie, there's a Cecil B. DeMille movie. This is a person that's larger than life in a hundred ways. And I loved her voice. I thought she sang great. And I said okay and I went down to the session to produce a record for her. I went down and I did one track and it was a completely different world from anything I had seen. Dealing with girls was a whole different thing and Stevie was in a whole different place than we were.

Emotionally?

[Laughs] Every kind of way. She was very sweet and we liked her. But she had just a whole different kind of work ethic than we had, and there were a lot of people, a lot of hangers-on. The whole Elvis kind of theme and a big entourage. We'd never been a very big fan of that. And so after a track I went, 'Look I can't do this. I don't have the time. I'm too busy and I don't think that I'm going to be a big help to you. But I know a guy who might be good for you named Jimmy Iovine.' And so, as time went by, and we hung out a big, we got to know her more and more, she would come over to my house and just hang out and play records or whatever. And we'd sing a bit. We used to sit around and play the guitar and sing.

Sing harmony?

Yeah, just anything.

She's a great harmony singer.

She's incredible. We could make a pretty good sound, singing with the acoustic guitar.

[highwaywomen]

Found this article on Nicks Fix...kind of rushed right now so I'm sure there are more.

http://http://www.nicksfix.com/article_the_star_may7_2001.htm

The Toronto Star
May 7, 2001
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stevie kick-started
Singer fit and contented as she prepares to set out on tour

Vit Wagner
Pop Music Critic

Stevie Nicks is getting by with a little help from her friends. But not too much help.

Trouble In Shangri-La, the new solo album by the famous Fleetwood Mac vocalist, was kick-started over dinner with long-time friend, the songwriter and guitarist Tom Petty. It was 1995, the year after the release of the unsuccessful Nicks' solo outing, Street Angel, and the singer was having a hard time moving forward artistically.

"I said to Tom, `When you get back to L.A. could we work on a song together?' I didn't ask him to write me a song. I just wanted to work on something together," Nicks said during 20-minute interview at the Sutton Place Hotel yesterday.

"He knew that was a red flag because I don't ever ask anyone to help me write a song. I am a solo writer. I don't collaborate.

"He said, `No, I'm not going to help you. Get over whatever it is that's bothering you and go home and write some songs. That's what you do. That's your life. You're not married. You don't have kids. You gave up all that so that you could be a songwriter par extraordinaire, that you could travel and do whatever you wanted to do and be free. And for you to ask me to help you write a song is really not a good thing.'

"Coming from Tom that was a very good thing. Coming from anyone else, I probably wouldn't have listened."

Trouble In Shangri-La, released last Tuesday, doesn't list any Petty writing credits. It does, however, include a song, "That Made Me Stronger," that is about the encounter, as well as a very detailed acknowledgement: "Special thanks to Tom Petty for his inspirational lecture over dinner at the Ritz-Carlton in Phoenix, April 24, 1995. I returned home and began writing these songs."

While Nicks doesn't like sharing writing duties, she isn't opposed to recording another writer's material, if it strikes her fancy. "Every Day," one of the more striking numbers on the CD, was sent to her by songwriter John Shanks, who also ended up co-producing "Planets Of The Universe," one of three songs on the album that Nicks actually penned in the `70s, this one concerning her rocky relationship with Fleetwood Mac cohort and former beau Lindsey Buckingham.

"Lindsey, who has heard me play `Planets Of The Universe' a million times on the piano, said, `I'm very impressed with John Shanks' work on `Planets Of The Universe' because I've heard that song for 25 years and have never known what to do with it.'

"Sometimes you need the right people at the right time," Nicks continued.

"You can have a really good song and your producer doesn't get it. Most times you just drop it."

Friendly help also came from chum Sheryl Crow.

In addition to singing on the album, along with Sarah McLachlan and Macy Gray, Crow produced several songs and wrote one of them, "It's Only Love," as well.

"(Crow) told me she had written a song for me and about me," Nicks recalled. "I've known Sheryl for about four or five years and have pretty much told her my whole life. In my heart, I was thinking, `Gosh, I hope I like it,' because I don't want to have to tell Sheryl Crow I don't like her song. But I did like it. It really is about the life of a rock star and the turmoil we come through ."

For Nicks, that turmoil included a decade-long addiction to cocaine that ended in 1985, only to be followed by an even more debilitating eight years on tranquillizers. The cocaine period generated a lot of music, at least, including the 25-million selling album Rumours.

"I call them the cocaine and brandy years, the raucous, rock and roll years, from 1975 to 1985. I don't ever want to say anything that will make someone think, `Well, I'd better run out and do some of that so that I can write something too.' But we did a lot of great work. You can't fight that.

"I've always tried during interviews to stress that, `If somebody ever says let's put you on a tranquillizer and you are any kid of artist, run away screaming, because you will love your bitter, little, angst-ridden personality a lot more than what you get from the other end of the spectrum. You'll gain weight, nobody will ever like you anymore, you won't be fun or interesting and you'll just lay around doing nothing."

Nicks, who has lost 25 pounds and will turn 53 later this month, is looking fit and contented as she prepares to set out on a tour that gets under way on July 6 in Pittsburgh. No Canadian dates have yet been set.

Work will also begin sometime this fall on a new album by Fleetwood Mac, which has stayed in touch after a successful, 1997 reunion tour.

[michelej1]

Regarding them placating each other, another moment I liked on Destiny Rules is when Stevie comes in with that spirit catcher and Lindsey politely inquires as to whether she wants to put it on her side of the room. In his mind he was probably thinking, "Are you going to put that big ugly thing somewhere where the rest of us don't have to look at it?"

I also liked it in Rock Express:

Stevie adds, "Lindsey is absolutely against duplicating anything. So if he even thinks that people are gonna think he's trying to duplicate, he will go so far the other way. So the best thing to do with Lindsey is to not even remind him, so that he doesn't get too radical. 'Cause you know, he's just one of those men, he'll get totally radical. 'I'm not going to do anything like the last one, for my own cultural growth and the pursuit of art.'"

It just gave me this image of the band figuring out the best, delicate way to handle Lindsey so as to keep him from going overboard. Sometimes they fight and sometimes they kind of use psychology and humor each other and I think it's always fun when that happens.

Another thing I like is the Tusk documentary where Lindsey is asking Stevie whether she has some lyric sheets for him and she says something like, "No, I didn't write any lyrics down for you because I didn't know you would sound so beautiful singing the song." What she could have said if she hadn't been in a sweet mood was: "No, there are no lyrics for you, because I didn't plan for it to be a duet!"

Michele

[danax6]

Vanessa, I don't think the problem with Lindsey and Stevie has to do with them singing with their mics closer together. Judging from Say Goodbye, I don't think Lindsey actually has a problem with doing that, but it did make Stevie and Mick look ridiculous for suggesting it.
It wasn't meant to be taken that literally. I was saying that he doesn't feel like going through that whole charade again, which is apparantly what they were discussing before they had even agreed upon touring, much to Lindsey's dislike. He talked about that aspect of Fleetwood Mac and seemed less than enamoured by it all. It's been beaten to death, let's all move on. He knows Rumours was only that big of a success because of people's voyeuristic natures. He mentions that every chance he gets also.

Sure, I do think that Lindsey would like to do another album, he's been saying that ever since they finished Say You Will, no surprises there. And yes, Stevie's been less than enthused about the idea, but that still doesn't have anything to do with her liking Tusk or not, which was the initial point of the discussion. And if her mind is set on not recording, it definitely doesn't do her any good to say she liked Tusk for the heck of it. Like I said, it doesn't serve her any purpose at the moment and I just don't think it went down like that.

As for the 70 articles you posted where he seemed to be complaining about Fleetwood Mac and its music... that stuff has been going on for decades, it's nothing new. He gets asked about it every freakin' time, and he answers. What other answer is he supposed to give? To me it comes across as him explaining how certain things came about, not complaining about it. If you want to look at what's going on right now you have to disregard the same old-same old that gets said year after year, because it's just not relevant. That's only what interviewers keep hammering on, because very few of them read up on current affairs and most love to dwell on the past.

[danax6]

I don't think anyone here is arguing you on this, but I get a kick out of their Placate Moments, so I have to chime in. ;)

Regarding them placating each other, another moment I liked on Destiny Rules is when Stevie comes in with that spirit catcher and Lindsey politely inquires as to whether she wants to put it on her side of the room. In his mind he was probably thinking, "Are you going to put that big ugly thing somewhere where the rest of us don't have to look at it?"
Not sure if I saw this as a Placate Moment. I honestly think that after 40 years of knowing her and having spent six of those years sharing an apartment with her, he's used to that stuff. When asked about it during a radio interview he didn't get pulled into the making-fun-of-Stevie. He remained a perfect gentleman, answering honestly without a hint of mockery, when he could have easily chosen a different direction. :laugh:

Another moment that does really crack me up is the Tango interview they did together. I think someone posted the youtube link a while ago, but I have it on dvd somewhere. The reporter asks what it was really like to work with Lindsey on Tango and instead of answering truthfully she says it was great because although it wasn't as much fun, they got an awful lot more done. Considering she said the following a year earlier, you just know she would have loved to answer that differently...

Asked whether Lindsey's a perfectionist: “Utter. To the point of "why can't you just come and play?", and it's like, "well I can't just do that". And that's the reason, and I love Lindsey, but that's the reason that Lindsey and I aren't together. It's because I'm radical, you know, it's like, I just want to play, I just want us all together here, and set up some microphones, and a camera and I just want to play. And Lindsey, it needs to be perfect for Lindsey and so his perfection drives me crazy because I think he doesn't have any fun, and my radicalness drives him crazy because he thinks I'm not as good as I should be.”

[michelej1]

He talked about that aspect of Fleetwood Mac and seemed less than enamoured by it all. It's been beaten to death, let's all move on. He knows Rumours was only that big of a success because of people's voyeuristic natures. He mentions that every chance he gets also.


See, I don't perceive Lindsey as pulling away from that aspect of Rumours. I see him as wanting to distance himself from wanting to feed the commercial monster and from the expectations that you will do something that is widely accessible. I think he wants to do fulfilling music, even if it appeals to a much narrower group of people and that's how he wants to distance himself from Rumours. I don't think he really minds the voyeuristic aspect.

Some things may be orchestrated by Stevie and/or Mick, but some things seem to be totally within his province. So, I don't think he's above playing upon that personal history himself for the benefit of showmanship, with the Tusk dance and with the way they stared at each other throughout the performances of Say Goodbye. Also, my favorite moments during The Dance tour also came from contact that Lindsey initiated, chasing after her during Silver Springs and running her down for a kiss during GYOW. Or just nuzzling her neck or the way he started ending Don't Stop with his head on her hair during the SYW tour. I think there's a certain part of the voyeuristic appeal that fuels him on stage too. The audience is charged by certain contact and he appears to be too. So, I don't think he really had a problem with Mick and Stevie's suggestion, but when he mentioned it in the interview, they did look silly.

I would agree with you that he does answer some questions the same, because that's all he gets asked. On his own he wouldn't talk about his feelings during the recording of Rumours again and again. The reporters push him into that corner. However, in explaining what he was striving for with UTS, he often initiated the Tusk comparison himself, because that's an important reference point for him, just as important as Smile is.

I don't know under what circumstances Stevie told Lindsey Tusk was her favorite album, if any. I'd like to hear her say it myself and then I'd form conclusions based on what she said. But the scenario where I see her placating him is kind of like the double album dilemma on Destiny Rules: You know: Lindsey it's not your music. It's the economy. I love your music. It's the best you've done and I appreciate what you've tried to do here and we all want you to be happy. But I don't think the public has the money to spend on a double album. These people aren't hippies smoking pot anymore. They are adults with mortgages and they won't buy a double album.

In the same vein when she says to him, like she said in interviews, that she doesn't feel like putting out a new album that no one is going to buy, I can see her softening that blow by saying, it's not that the album wouldn't be good. She would explain that Tusk was good and she loves it now, it's her favorite, but that the record business has changed so much that she thinks it would be suicide to take a Tusk risk again and explaining that they couldn't tour on a 2008 version of Tusk, like they did in 1979-1980. That's how I see the Tusk discussion continuing today.

When she says that (1) Lindsey blames FM for breaking him and Stevie up and (2) Lindsey blames FM for not letting him make the kind of music he wants and when she says maybe Lindsey will have an epiphany and realize that he has nothing to complain about, then I do conclude that he probably has recently been complaining to her about not getting to make fresh music and I don't think there's anyway to make that comment without revisiting his Tusk disappointment in the band.

I don't blame him for complaining. I want him to hold his ground. To me, she wants to tour. There was awhile that I feared she might get a Vegas contract, but I don't think that's likely anymore. So, I think she wants to tour with FM. If Lindsey refuses to tour unless they have new music to perform, I think she will eventually give in and that's what I'm hoping for.

but that still doesn't have anything to do with her liking Tusk or not, which was the initial point of the discussion.

Really? My initial point didn't start off there at all. Mine was that I don't see why it's a surprise that Stevie doesn't praise her boyfriends' music since they don't praise hers. Then, the discussion just snowballed into about 100 different things, not one initial point, from my perspective. As for whether Stevie likes Tusk or not, I don't believe it's her favorite album, but would relish hearing her say so. I believe that to this day she doesn't think it should have been a double album. But I've always thought that she liked at least half the songs on it, so it's not my position she doesn't like the album, at least part of it.

As for the guitar pick, I don't think any journalist asks him about that. I don't think 90% of the reporters know about it or care. I think it's just something that stuck in his craw for over 30 years now and he keeps bringing it up. It's kind of quirky to me. Michele

[michelej1]

I don't think anyone here is arguing you on this, but I get a kick out of their Placate Moments, so I have to chime in. ;)

Not sure if I saw this as a Placate Moment. I honestly think that after 40 years of knowing her and having spent six of those years sharing an apartment with her, he's used to that stuff.

Well, in a way I agree. Plus, I don't think he's Mr. Decorator guy either. As long as he has a place for his things, I don't know if he cares about his surroundings. When Stevie said she used to sew moons and stars on his jeans, that did lead me to the conclusion that he pretty much let her do what she wanted along those lines.

Another domestic thing I liked, though we've only heard one side of the conversation, is the whole Landslide argument where Stevie says he left and he took her dog. Well, you could get the impression that he just took her dog and her car to be mean, since they were arguing at the time. But I can just hear her giving him the "my father is vice president of Greyhound and I don't need to drive back to Los Angeles with you. I can go anywhere in the nation I want." So, the reason he took the dog is that if she was going back home on the bus (or the plane where she ended up), the dog couldn't go with her.

It's just funny to me that after a big fight, Lindsey is driving home alone with the poodle, stopping on the side of the road, letting it go to the restroom, etc. It's just a funny picture. I also had to laugh when Town and Country did that spread with Kristen and there was a big black poodle on his lawn. It tickled me when they asked John about dogs and he said he thinks Lindsey has a big poodle. I could imagine him getting teased about it. Of course, the picture of him holding the kitten in CAH's book is very sweet too.

Michele

[SandyMac]

I love the line about sticking the cigarette in her nose. "Ma, make crazy Aunt Stevie stop it, she's embarrassing me in front of my friends!":lol:

- Jake

LOL, OMG, I laughed so hard at that. I am so picturing Stevie walking into a room and saying that and acting all goofy or being dead serious

[SandyMac]

who wants to make bets that in a few years we'll be hearing about the horrors of Neurontin:



USA Today, May 2018
Stevie Nicks looks towrds the Edge of Seventy

Stevie is currently working on a chilldrens movie based on her song Goldfish and the Ladybug, which she says is for real this time. She's 100 percent happy right now but recalls how her late 50's were stolen from her by a drug she thought was helping her menapause.

"Yeah that freaking Neurotin just like caused me to forget 70 percent of my songbank. I could only remember about 15 of my songs, it was awful.
.
.
.
.
.
Oh yeah and Lindsey sucks.

OMG, LOL, I know I am late to the discussion, but I burst out laughing while reading this. PRICELESS :thumbsup:

[danax6]

See, I don't perceive Lindsey as pulling away from that aspect of Rumours. I see him as wanting to distance himself from wanting to feed the commercial monster and from the expectations that you will do something that is widely accessible. I think he wants to do fulfilling music, even if it appeals to a much narrower group of people and that's how he wants to distance himself from Rumours. I don't think he really minds the voyeuristic aspect.

Some things may be orchestrated by Stevie and/or Mick, but some things seem to be totally within his province. So, I don't think he's above playing upon that personal history himself for the benefit of showmanship, with the Tusk dance and with the way they stared at each other throughout the performances of Say Goodbye. Also, my favorite moments during The Dance tour also came from contact that Lindsey initiated, chasing after her during Silver Springs and running her down for a kiss during GYOW. Or just nuzzling her neck or the way he started ending Don't Stop with his head on her hair during the SYW tour. I think there's a certain part of the voyeuristic appeal that fuels him on stage too. The audience is charged by certain contact and he appears to be too. So, I don't think he really had a problem with Mick and Stevie's suggestion, but when he mentioned it in the interview, they did look silly.

But the difference between The Dance and SYW was that during the former the interaction at least appeared to be genuine and I think it really was. Those SYW moments were born from once genuine moments, but someone decided to keep them in because of the reaction the audience had to them. There has always been a certain chemistry on stage, as far back as the early days, but that was always rooted in sincerity. Whether it was anger or passion or love, it shone through, and that's what made it interesting. The SYW tour was a desperate attempt to keep that fire going even though nobody was really feeling it. That was the turning point in when it stopped being completely about the music and the emotions it provoked and it became about putting forth some act to keep the masses interested. It was rather pathetic actually. To think that they are concocting that bull**** before they even have any dates planned is quite scary, and I really, honestly think Lindsey wants nothing to do with it. At least not to the point where they have to have a script ready. I'm not too sure Lindsey likes the voyeuristic aspect, and definitely not when it becomes something contrived. He's always been a loner. During Fleetwood Mac's heyday he mentioned a few times that he likes the fact that he can still walk the streets without too many people bothering him. He's not so much the spotlight kind of guy, unless he's up there humping his guitar, because that's what he does best. The rest he doesn't really care for. And he's definitely not one for pleasing the masses. :laugh:

~you're not like other people, you do what you want to~

I would agree with you that he does answer some questions the same, because that's all he gets asked. On his own he wouldn't talk about his feelings during the recording of Rumours again and again. The reporters push him into that corner. However, in explaining what he was striving for with UTS, he often initiated the Tusk comparison himself, because that's an important reference point for him, just as important as Smile is.But that's exactly what I meant when I was saying he's not complaining, he's explaining.

In the same vein when she says to him, like she said in interviews, that she doesn't feel like putting out a new album that no one is going to buy, I can see her softening that blow by saying, it's not that the album wouldn't be good. She would explain that Tusk was good and she loves it now, it's her favorite, but that the record business has changed so much that she thinks it would be suicide to take a Tusk risk again and explaining that they couldn't tour on a 2008 version of Tusk, like they did in 1979-1980. That's how I see the Tusk discussion continuing today.I can see where you're coming from, but to me that's reaching, because there's no telling what vision Lindsey has for a new Fleetwood Mac album. In fact, we aren't even sure that's what he's hellbent on right now. To me it seemed he had already resigned to the fact that there won't be a new album.

When she says that (1) Lindsey blames FM for breaking him and Stevie up and (2) Lindsey blames FM for not letting him make the kind of music he wants and when she says maybe Lindsey will have an epiphany and realize that he has nothing to complain about, then I do conclude that he probably has recently been complaining to her about not getting to make fresh music and I don't think there's anyway to make that comment without revisiting his Tusk disappointment in the band.Yes, when you paste all of Stevie's ramblings together, that would certainly be a conclusion you could draw, but I don't see it as black and white. One thing that needs to be taken into consideration is that though he had ample opportunity to continue on his own in the 90s, he went back to Fleetwood Mac. Put his own album on hold, did a reunion, kept keeping his own album on hold until he himself made the decision to turn it into a Fleetwood Mac album, thinking he had at least Mick on his side. I think what Stevie was reflecting on was what went on during the recording of that particular album, when indeed he wanted to take the Tusk route.

But, that still doesn't mean she lied about Tusk being her favorite album just to placate him. Every argument she offered was the truth, and nothing but. Even her cringe-worthy prayers to the commercial gods.

I don't blame him for complaining. I want him to hold his ground. To me, she wants to tour. There was awhile that I feared she might get a Vegas contract, but I don't think that's likely anymore. So, I think she wants to tour with FM. If Lindsey refuses to tour unless they have new music to perform, I think she will eventually give in and that's what I'm hoping for.I guess that's why we have such different views on the whole matter, because a. I don't think she's really set on touring and b. I don't think Lindsey's holding out because he is set on doing an album before going on the road. I think if we agreed on this, we might have been able to agree more on the other matters also. ;)

Really? My initial point didn't start off there at all. Mine was that I don't see why it's a surprise that Stevie doesn't praise her boyfriends' music since they don't praise hers. Then, the discussion just snowballed into about 100 different things, not one initial point, from my perspective.Because I agreed on the lack of praising. The Tusk thing was the only thing I really disagreed on, so that's where the real discussion originated. Everything after that was both of us trying to prove a point by bringing in semi-related events and point of views. But all the roads lead to that damn Tusk album! ;)

[danax6]

Another domestic thing I liked, though we've only heard one side of the conversation, is the whole Landslide argument where Stevie says he left and he took her dog. Well, you could get the impression that he just took her dog and her car to be mean, since they were arguing at the time. But I can just hear her giving him the "my father is vice president of Greyhound and I don't need to drive back to Los Angeles with you. I can go anywhere in the nation I want." So, the reason he took the dog is that if she was going back home on the bus (or the plane where she ended up), the dog couldn't go with her.

It's just funny to me that after a big fight, Lindsey is driving home alone with the poodle, stopping on the side of the road, letting it go to the restroom, etc. It's just a funny picture. I also had to laugh when Town and Country did that spread with Kristen and there was a big black poodle on his lawn. It tickled me when they asked John about dogs and he said he thinks Lindsey has a big poodle. I could imagine him getting teased about it. Of course, the picture of him holding the kitten in CAH's book is very sweet too.
And if we are to believe Stevie, she sent him home with the car twice after a big fight. Once in Aspen and once in Sausalito. The book about Warron Zevon made me think this over again, because following that timeline, didn't Lindsey go back on the road with Don Everly after Stevie's visit in Aspen? If so, it was really impossible for him to drive the car back to LA. I wonder if she took the Greyhound to Aspen in the first place or if she flew out there. Or if she's just mixing everything up and there wasn't even a car. Or a blizzard. Or a fight for that matter. :laugh:

[Johnny Stew]

I don't think the problem with Lindsey and Stevie has to do with them singing with their mics closer together. Judging from Say Goodbye, I don't think Lindsey actually has a problem with doing that, but it did make Stevie and Mick look ridiculous for suggesting it.
I actually agreed with Stevie and Mick on that. Every photo I'd see from the SYW tour, every concert vid I'd watch, I never understood why there was such a huge amount of space between Stevie and Lindsey's microphones.
I seriously think two adult males could lay on the stage, head-to-toe, between them, and there'd still be room leftover.

Did Simon and Garfunkel stand that far apart when they performed? Did the Everlys? I couldn't care less about the "drama" or the "are they/aren't they" stuff, but I do think the visual distance between Stevie & Lindsey makes the dynamic between the two performers seem less intimate.

[Johnny Stew]

To think that they are concocting that bull**** before they even have any dates planned is quite scary, and I really, honestly think Lindsey wants nothing to do with it. At least not to the point where they have to have a script ready.
I think he prefers to save the scripts for his "spontaneous" interaction with the audience. Isn't that weird?!? ;) :laugh:

[michelej1]

But the difference between The Dance and SYW was that during the former the interaction at least appeared to be genuine and I think it really was. Those SYW moments were born from once genuine moments, but someone decided to keep them in because of the reaction the audience had to them.

But I hold Lindsey accountable for the Say Goodbye interaction and even the Tusk dance/fight. Since Stevie also had similar dance moments with Don and Waddy, then I could see the view that she was behind the little dance, but basically I think the Tusk and Say Goodbye moments were Lindsey and that's why I don't think he's that much against the manufactured stuff. The closeness during Landslide (which is more totally stale now than anything else), Sara and SYW might not have been so much his idea. But I really think he staged Tusk, because he is the one who seemed to modify it over time.

And the Don't Stop thing too. He started doing that to her at the close of the song and she really had no reaction, but then as the tour progressed that's when she started turning around and "offering" her torso to him. So when he said Mick and Stevie presented that idea to him, I didn't really think he minded it, just like I don't think he really minded FM staging an intervention around him and telling him he just had to do the Dance. I think he liked being intervened and imagine that he liked Stevie telling him he was supposed to stare into her eyes.

I can see where you're coming from, but to me that's reaching, because there's no telling what vision Lindsey has for a new Fleetwood Mac album. In fact, we aren't even sure that's what he's hellbent on right now. To me it seemed he had already resigned to the fact that there won't be a new album.

Yeah. He doesn't mention an album anymore, unless it's in terms of wishful thinking. But if he gave up on that, I still think he harbors dreams of doing different songs live. Maybe not Come, Murrow or Rover again, but
something else a little avant garde. In fact, I can imagine that's why Stevie and Mick presented him with their preferred setlist in the first place, because they thought the songs he might want to add to the set would alienate the audience. I think he was holding out for FM not to tour on the old favorites, without any feeling left, like he has said he feels the Eagles do, which is ironic, since the Eagles do have new music. I don't know what the Eagles setlist is though or how many times they change it and how many non-hits they perform in it. They might be better than FM in that regard.

But, that still doesn't mean she lied about Tusk being her favorite album just to placate him.

I don't think it does mean that. I just offered that scenario because you said you didn't see how her saying Tusk was now her favorite album could be connected to their discussing a new record. I can easily see how the two topics could be linked. Or I could see her saying it apropos to nothing, just because she knows it would make him feel good. She once said she thought that Lindsey did a great job on SYW as well. Now she says she wasn't happy with it. Why the about face? Well, because she's mad at him, because the album didn't sell and she's disappointed, but also because I think she wasn't happy. That's why there was friction between them when the SYW promotion commenced. That's why he told different reporters that she never thanked him. They kissed and made up and she told him she thinks he did great. Wasn't completely true. If she told him Tusk was her favorite album, I don't think that would be the truth either.

But when it comes down to it, I don't know why or if she said Tusk was her favorite album. I'd like the chance to hear her say it rather than just hear him say she said it.

But that's exactly what I meant when I was saying he's not complaining, he's explaining.

Yeah, but when she says that she hopes he gets an epiphany and stops complaining, I can definitely see that as one of the things she feels (or claims) he is complaining about, still complaining about 1979 in 2007. I don't think she sees it as an explanation. With John's last Q & A session, he was asked what he thinks about Lindsey's criticisms of FM and I thought that was kind of unfair, because Lindsey hasn't been critical of anything FM has done since SYW. The only recent criticism he has made, is still the old Tusk criticism and that comes up all the time. So, when she says he is still complaining, I know where she's coming from. Tusk and the restrictions the band placed on his individualty are indeed rehashed by him all the time. However, he doesn't have the hurt feelings or resentment about it that he did in 1982. It's not a barrier between them. I think he's quite happy with FM today, so I do think it's disingenuous for her to say that's why they don't get along, because he blames FM. I don't think that's the conflict between them right now. Michele

[michelej1]

I wonder if she took the Greyhound to Aspen in the first place or if she flew out there. Or if she's just mixing everything up and there wasn't even a car. Or a blizzard. Or a fight for that matter. :laugh:

Stevie sometimes reminds me of the Seinfeld "yada yada yada" because she often says something without giving the details and I wonder if you stopped and made her tell you exactly what happened, if you'd find there was no substance to what she said.

So for the Landslide fight, she says he came home from being on the road and he was "very angry" with her and I'd like to say, "well what do you mean by angry? What did he say or do?" Because for the Buckingham Nicks nudity, she also says he was "very angry" with her, but all she says he said was don't be childish.

Now, I'm not saying that you can't tell someone not to be childish in a very harsh, cruel way. I also have to admit that it would hurt me if my boyfriend didn't care if I showed my breasts. I'd want him to be irate that the photographer asked me to do that. But on the other hand, without more details, I don't really buy it when Stevie says that Lindsey was "very angry with me." I think she says he was "very angry" when he looks at her sideways.

And to this day she doesn't take her mike off the stand because Lindsey said something to her about thinking she was Miss Las Vegas. I'm sorry, but . . . I know he didn't mean it in a happy, friendly way, but . . . I don't think it should send her into such post traumatic stress that she's afraid to perform away from a mic stand for the rest of her life.

Michele

[danax6]

I actually agreed with Stevie and Mick on that. Every photo I'd see from the SYW tour, every concert vid I'd watch, I never understood why there was such a huge amount of space between Stevie and Lindsey's microphones.
I seriously think two adult males could lay on the stage, head-to-toe, between them, and there'd still be room leftover.
Have they ever stood closer together though? Did anybody really care before?

I think he prefers to save the scripts for his "spontaneous" interaction with the audience. Isn't that weird?!? ;) :laugh:Obviously they keep in their rehearsed speeches, they've been doing that from day 1.

[danax6]

I think he's quite happy with FM today, so I do think it's disingenuous for her to say that's why they don't get along, because he blames FM. I don't think that's the conflict between them right now.Then we at least agree on that part.

When Stevie says Lindsey's still complaining about how FM broke them up, I just have to roll my eyes. To me that comes across as her laying down the ground work for the further milking of the love/hate cow. :rolleyes:

[michelej1]

Then we at least agree on that part.

When Stevie says Lindsey's still complaining about how FM broke them up, I just have to roll my eyes. To me that comes across as her laying down the ground work for the further milking of the love/hate cow. :rolleyes:

Well, if she's getting ready to milk, that only means she's got some future plans to make butter and that's actually good news to my ears. If she's setting the stage for something, then it suggests she has future FM plans, which is nice to contemplate.

I do agree in a way that she doesn't want to tour. I think she wants to tour desperately and I always say she'll be going on the road with Kenny Loggins next year -- which actually is not that much of a joke. I know forever, we'll be doing it, doing it. However, I do think she is reticent about touring with FM right now. I think she'll have to, but I do think there's a certain balance shift that made her unhappy. Michele

[David]

I do agree in a way that she doesn't want to tour. I think she wants to tour desperately and I always say she'll be going on the road with Kenny Loggins next year -- which actually is not that much of a joke.Stevie seems to really enjoy performing the Stevie Nicks show. I don't think a year has gone by that she hasn't done a few shows at least, probably since 1995. She pulls everything together, & it all snaps firmly into place like a Lego Mindstorm.

http://www.cci.dmu.ac.uk/images/robots/lego.jpg

Stevie is a well-oiled machine.

[danax6]

I do agree in a way that she doesn't want to tour. I think she wants to tour desperately and I always say she'll be going on the road with Kenny Loggins next year -- which actually is not that much of a joke. [I] I know forever, we'll be doing it, doing it.Eeh, she didn't like Kenny Loggins. :laugh:

[JazmenFlowers]

And to this day she doesn't take her mike off the stand because Lindsey said something to her about thinking she was Miss Las Vegas. I'm sorry, but . . . I know he didn't mean it in a happy, friendly way, but . . . I don't think it should send her into such post traumatic stress that she's afraid to perform away from a mic stand for the rest of her life.
that may be one instance that reinforces her dislike for taking the mic off the stand, but the overwhelming and initial reason is because she doesn't feel comfortable holding it. she has said, she doesn't feel comfortable.

as for being traumatized, sometimes, one person, someone that you care for and have deep respect for is enough to influence something for the rest of your life. so, if this is true, it's not so far-fetched. a single comment can make you insecure or question something about yourself forever and it may become a subconscious thing.
I do agree in a way that she doesn't want to tour. I think she wants to tour desperately and I always say she'll be going on the road with Kenny Loggins next year -- which actually is not that much of a joke.
I'm confused a bit and it may be that I'm misreading, but you say she doesn't want to tour and then say she wants to tour desperately...I'm lost.

[michelej1]

I'm confused a bit and it may be that I'm misreading, but you say she doesn't want to tour and then say she wants to tour desperately...I'm lost.

Wants to tour, needs to tour. Doesn't want to tour with FM.

[michelej1]

that may be one instance that reinforces her dislike for taking the mic off the stand, but the overwhelming and initial reason is because she doesn't feel comfortable holding it. she has said, she doesn't feel comfortable.


Yes, I agree that that's the main and exclusive reason Stevie doesn't move her mic. But it's convenient for her to say otherwise, depending on what's going on between them.


If I even took the mic off of the stand he'd say, "well, aren't you being so very Las Vegas today." So of course I never took the mic off of the stand again and even to this day.

[JazmenFlowers]

Wants to tour, needs to tour. Doesn't want to tour with FM.
oh ok, gotcha.
Yes, I agree that that's the main and exclusive reason Stevie doesn't move her mic. But it's convenient for her to say otherwise, depending on what's going on between them.
yeah. that's typical Stevie. not unlike any other human.

[Serrart]

It wasn't meant to be taken that literally. I was saying that he doesn't feel like going through that whole charade again, which is apparantly what they were discussing before they had even agreed upon touring, much to Lindsey's dislike. He talked about that aspect of Fleetwood Mac and seemed less than enamoured by it all. It's been beaten to death, let's all move on. He knows Rumours was only that big of a success because of people's voyeuristic natures. He mentions that every chance he gets also.

I think the charade doesn't give him any problem at all, and if Stevie would accept to tour he would do it dressed like Heatcliff. I think he considers Fleetwood Mac albums and tours his personal free oil station, both for self-esteem and money. He could have with FM (well... with Stevie) all the most important press, suucessful big tours and the chance to produce an album with all the resources he wants; without counting a new trailer where he can write his new masterpiece and some fish & chips for the family. But he loves to play the tortured and independent artist who's dragged back in the commercial music system by an evil female rockstar and her greedy friend.

Maybe Stevie has understood the power she has with Lindsey and decided to break his toy. Keep saying no for a while Stevie, and you'll have more songs (or whatever you want) and a bright new pink and yellow wardrobe.

Romy

[danax6]

I think the charade doesn't give him any problem at all, and if Stevie would accept to tour he would do it dressed like Heatcliff. I think he considers Fleetwood Mac albums and tours his personal free oil station, both for self-esteem and money. He could have with FM (well... with Stevie) all the most important press, suucessful big tours and the chance to produce an album with all the resources he wants; without counting a new trailer where he can write his new masterpiece and some fish & chips for the family. But he loves to play the tortured and independent artist who's dragged back in the commercial music system by an evil female rockstar and her greedy friend.Be that as it may, it's the only complaint he has brought up recently. Regarding a new Fleetwood Mac album he's only said 'yeah, that's what I would have liked to have happened right after SYW, but it didn't... ah well, c'est la vie'. Like I said before, he seems to be over that.

[Serrart]

Be that as it may, it's the only complaint he has brought up recently. Regarding a new Fleetwood Mac album he's only said 'yeah, that's what I would have liked to have happened right after SYW, but it didn't... ah well, c'est la vie'. Like I said before, he seems to be over that.

I guess it would be too much if he would start every interview bursting into tears and crying around "Stevie doesn't want to toooooour.....". It would be funny though.

Romy

[Phoenix]

I think the charade doesn't give him any problem at all, and if Stevie would accept to tour he would do it dressed like Heatcliff. I think he considers Fleetwood Mac albums and tours his personal free oil station, both for self-esteem and money. He could have with FM (well... with Stevie) all the most important press, suucessful big tours and the chance to produce an album with all the resources he wants; without counting a new trailer where he can write his new masterpiece and some fish & chips for the family. But he loves to play the tortured and independent artist who's dragged back in the commercial music system by an evil female rockstar and her greedy friend.

Maybe Stevie has understood the power she has with Lindsey and decided to break his toy. Keep saying no for a while Stevie, and you'll have more songs (or whatever you want) and a bright new pink and yellow wardrobe.

Romy


I have never agreed with you moore!:blob2::thumbsup:

[mgikallaroundme]

You guys have no clue. Lindsey doesn't need money. He certainly doen't need Stevie or Fleetwood Mac in order to make money in the music industry. They all need him. They know it, too. The idea that Stevie is the big cash cow is a myth. Stevie fans believe so simply because she is more famous with the general public. Lindsey can buy and sell Stevie's entire net worth and everyone else in the band with his lunch money.

If fans want to believe the silly love/hate nonsense at this late date I guess you have to find some logical reason why they still play this charade. It isn't for any of the reasons mentioned. It's obvious to me they both have suddenly decided to make fans believe they didn't get along on the last tour despite what people saw in their interactions with their own eyes. They both have done a 180 about their attitude on being in the band. Now Lindsey is all in favor of it and Stevie doesn't want to do it after she said for years she wanted to do Fleetwood Mac again and she only wanted to be in it if he was.

Fans will always just go along and accept anything they say, whichever way the wind blows, even if they suddenly end up in front of eveyone again, with or WITHOUT the other members of the band. When that happens, while you are watching the BN show, don't forget how they didn't really like each other on the last tour. Also don't forget they only pretend to like each other for the fans and for the money. That's the only point of all the current bs they are spewing so make sure you GET IT!

[danax6]

You guys have no clue. Lindsey doesn't need money. He certainly doen't need Stevie or Fleetwood Mac in order to make money in the music industry. They all need him. They know it, too. The idea that Stevie is the big cash cow is a myth. Stevie fans believe so simply because she is more famous with the general public. Lindsey can buy and sell Stevie's entire net worth and everyone else in the band with his lunch money. Who was talking about money?

If fans want to believe the silly love/hate nonsense at this late date I guess you have to find some logical reason why they still play this charade. It isn't for any of the reasons mentioned. It's obvious to me they both have suddenly decided to make fans believe they didn't get along on the last tour despite what people saw in their interactions with their own eyes. They both have done a 180 about their attitude on being in the band. Now Lindsey is all in favor of it and Stevie doesn't want to do it after she said for years she wanted to do Fleetwood Mac again and she only wanted to be in it if he was.That's what I've been saying also.

Fans will always just go along and accept anything they say, whichever way the wind blows,No way.

GET IT!I get it, thanks.

[mgikallaroundme]

Who was talking about money?

he considers Fleetwood Mac albums and tours his personal free oil station, both for self-esteem and money.

Nice to see somebody gets it. :laugh:

[JazmenFlowers]

You guys have no clue. Lindsey doesn't need money. He certainly doen't need Stevie or Fleetwood Mac in order to make money in the music industry. They all need him.
like Vanessa said, no one was talking about money. but, how so?

last time I checked, Stevie didn't need FMac either to make money in the music industry. let's see...Stevie's last solo album debuted at #5 and that was after a 7-8 year hiatus (solo).
Lindsey can buy and sell Stevie's entire net worth and everyone else in the band with his lunch money.
doubtful. almost laughable. everyone? see above.

explain.

[danax6]

doubtful. almost laughable. everyone? see above.

explain.Actually, I do think Lindsey has more money than Stevie. She might have done more solo, but she sure as hell spends a lot more also. Her entourage comes to mind. Besides, she doesn't get producer royalties. Lindsey can tear down entire properties and build them up again from scratch, only to then sell it for 21 million. And that's just one property. Lord knows what else he owns.

Plus, he only has two shirts and one leather jacket. :laugh:

[michelej1]

Stevie has said that Lindsey has a lot more money than the rest of them do and Mick has pointed out it's because he doesn't have a lot of expenses.
Plus, when Stevie talked about how much money Lindsey had as a producer, I don't think she was counting the fact that he didn't produce for just Fleetwood Mac either.

Of course, what Mick said about Lindsey not having expenses has changed now that he has a family. His kids have one of those playhouses that can cost $100,000, not to mention educational needs. So, of course he's not adverse to spending more money and I don't know if he had to pay for some of the UTS tour out of his own pocket or not, because he did for the OOTC tour.

So, he could use the money certainly, but not as much as Mick and John. Lindsey has laughed at Mick's Englishman tastes. Those red shoes are expensive!

Stevie probably needs money not to continue to live, but to continue to live in the style she's been accustomed. But she can always make money touring without FM. She and Chris did pretty well for their short tour.

As for Stevie and Lindsey putting on an act, I don't think they're pretending to be angry with each other for the public. I obviously think they would have to love each other after all of this time, so I don't think their stage interaction is all phony, but if anything, I think they pretend to affectionate a lot more than they pretend to be angry. However, they are melodramatic and I think their differences are hardly as seething, constant or insurmountable as the press makes them out to be. I don't think the press, even though jounalists are presumably people too, realize complex, contradictory nature of human relationships. It's not that difficult to be able to kill someone with your bare hands, yet know you would be absolutely and irrevocably devastated, if they were harmed by anyone or anything else.

I think Stevie is angry with Lindsey right now. But I also am confident that's not going to stand in the way of another FM tour eventually. Hopefully sooner rather than later, just before they all check into nursing homes.

Michele

[camchristo]

Actually, I do think Lindsey has more money than Stevie. She might have done more solo, but she sure as hell spends a lot more also. Her entourage comes to mind. Besides, she doesn't get producer royalties. Lindsey can tear down entire properties and build them up again from scratch, only to then sell it for 21 million. And that's just one property. Lord knows what else he owns.

Plus, he only has two shirts and one leather jacket. :laugh:


lolllll. :lol: True dat. Chiffon and lace cost much more than two dress shirts, three pair of jeans and a leather jacket.

Overall though, I don't know. I think they're pretty even on the money aspect. I would even lean toward Stevie having more. She's made MUCH more on her solo career than Lindsey. Plus he has a wife (who really looks like she likes to spend money) and three kids to spend his money now.

[michelej1]

You know, Lindsey is the one who went away for 10 years and had Stevie hoping he could find it in his heart.

As Steflana told Rolling Stone:

"You know, Lindsey's made a whole lot more money than anybody else did because he produces. The producers get paid first. And he probably didn't spend nearly as much money as everybody else did; he lives way simpler. So he didn't have to do this for money, you know. The rest of us would all like to put something away for, you know, our golden twilight years. But he has to want to do it, or we don't want to do it either."

Money is not what he needs, but I do think he needs the exposure for his new music that FM can bring him. Or heck, it doesn't matter what he needs. I need the exposure for his new music. I want to see these latter day masterpieces performed for an arena sized crowd.

My personal prayer is: Please, just go to England, record with the dame. She doesn't have to tour with you. Just release a studio album which would include 2-3 songs with her and a one time performance recorded to DVD and go out with a splash that is almost as big as The Dance was. That's all I ask of you guys.

Michele

[BTFLCHLD]

It's not that difficult to be able to kill someone with your bare hands, yet know you would be absolutely and irrevocably devastated, if they were harmed by anyone or anything else. Yes, I can attest to this. Love is "funny" like that. That kind of love, while it may change, never fades away completely. :nod:

[michelej1]

And aside from the money, Stevie has more of the Big Band hunger I think. The thrill of the private planes and limosines and flash bulbs. During the SYW she talked about savoring going out like that one last time, feeling like Led Zeppelin. That's what FM gives her that solo performances don't. While Lindsey surely likes the crowds too, I don't think he has that same thirst for it.

People talk about his scripts, but during the UTS tour, aside from telling us about the Gods on Mt. Olympic 1000 times, he made so many extraneous, off-the-cuff comments to the audience. He was so funny. And I never imagined him as being someone who actually listened very well. I thought he had too hard of a head to listen. But on this small tour, he seemed to hear what the fans would yell out, even if they were sitting 25 rows back and he'd often respond. This "living room" tour was a necessity, sure, because he couldn't really draw a bigger audience on his own, but it was also very well suited for him, his personality, not just his music. I think it fulfilled a need that the stadium tours don't (even though they also have their benefits money and ego wise). So, emotionally I think he could fare just fine without an FM tour. Don't think he's going to go broke without one financially either. But he wants one nonetheless. Michele

[David]

I think Stevie is angry with Lindsey right now. But I also am confident that's not going to stand in the way of another FM tour eventually. Hopefully sooner rather than later, just before they all check into nursing homes.Plus, as people get older -- especially as they arrive at what I'll call senior stage -- their idiosyncrasies & their feelings often become more pronounced. Not everyone glides into the September years with a calm demeanor & a placid contentment at all times. We're not all little Buddhas.

Stevie seems noticeably more up & down these days to me than she did even ten ago. You never know just what she'll want to do or won't want to do tomorrow morning.

Lindsey's talk to the press about how he would tour for awhile for his current solo album & then tour again for another solo album to follow immediately, taking up 2007 & 2008, sort of seemed to be a challenge laid down to Fleetwood Mac: "I'm not going to wait for you guys to finish YOUR projects & your travels to Australia & your island bands & your extracurricular activities. I waited for you -- now you'll wait for me."

Of course, when the others heard that, it bred a vicious cycle, which I guess they're in now.

[David]

Overall though, I don't know. I think they're pretty even on the money aspect. I would even lean toward Stevie having more. She's made MUCH more on her solo career than Lindsey.How do any of us know? Even their individual accountants don't know what the other guy has (unless the accountants work for the other guy, too). You can't look at someone & accurately ascertain his or her financial worth just based on the visible aspects of job or career activity. I know exactly what my dad did for a living & how often he did it, but to this day I still don't know how much money he actually made, or how much additionally he derived from what he made via other means. You have to see someone's tax return to know how much income there is, whether it's salary or contractor fees or capital gains or anything else.

[David]

My personal prayer is: Please, just go to England, record with the dame.At first I thought you meant Dame Edna.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/44/143335616_d909084b9c.jpg

Then I realized whom you meant (because Dame Edna is in Melbourne)!

She doesn't have to tour with you. Just release a studio album which would include 2-3 songs with her and a one time performance recorded to DVD and go out with a splash that is almost as big as The Dance was.It seems they wouldn't be able to get Chris onstage for even a one-up. She seems to be done, long done, even.

[michelej1]

Stevie seems noticeably more up & down these days to me than she did even ten ago. You never know just what she'll want to do or won't want to do tomorrow morning.

When you say up and down, I don't know if you meant she vacillates in what she wants to do or if you mean up and down emotionally too. I do think this stage of her life is proving a little difficult, because it seems like all of the high points are in the past -- though I don't think they are. As someone said, she might be having trouble getting from point "A" to point "B."

And she's funny and active and not at all a tragic figure, as the Scotsman reporter noted. But when she was in that house she bought and realized that she wanted it for the family that used to inhabit it before her and not for the house itself, weren't the moments when that realization came to her sad. Wasn't the house empty and echoing and a little lonely when she had that epiphany?

I think she's at a place where she might find herself envious about a lot of things right now. I don't mean envy in a spiteful, seven deadly sins way. I just mean that sometimes being around other people who have things that you miss or never attained hurts. I think of Vanessa Carlton. Stevie loves her, has been a tremendous support to her, helped her in every way and wants to see her succeed. That would give Stevie great joy. But when Vanessa does her set, it makes Stevie a little sad. She looks at Vanessa and sees herself and cries. And I think a lot of things make her look at herself and cry just about now. But I see it as a phase and, if there's sadness, I think of it as transitory. I'm not saying she's a big ball of rumpled moroseness or anything. Long live the Queen.

As for Lindsey, yes he is saying to FM that he's not waiting for them. But no one has really asked him to wait, which is the funny part. He's like, "If FM comes knocking on my door, I'll just let him knock." Meanwhile, no one has crossed his porch in a year. He probably has dreams at night, wishing someone would come and "intervention" him, but as in EO17, no one came.

Lindsey stop waiting for the knock and get that second album out to us.

What you say about not knowing how much money people have is true. People live above, beyond and below their means. Despite what it looks like on the outside, you never know what's actually in the bank account. I hear relatives saying they can't do something because they don't have the money and I'm thinking to myself, "but where has it gone?!"

Michele

[JazmenFlowers]

Actually, I do think Lindsey has more money than Stevie.
yeah, I was referring more to the everyone part of that comment.

Plus, he only has two shirts and one leather jacket. :laugh:
omg, :laugh:

[michelej1]

I used to give Lindsey's wardrobe the benefit of the doubt. When I went to my dad's closet after he passed away, he had 30 identical dress shirts hanging up on the rack. Most of them were still in the dry cleaners' plastic. So, I always figured that Lindsey probably had lots of identical clothes.

But then when Cory wrote that she had to tape up his boot, because he hadn't told her the zipper had broken the night before, I kind of accepted the fact that, "Hey. He really is wearing the same clothes all of the time."

I keep a separate pair of shoes and stockings in my office, just in case something happens at work. Lindsey doesn't even have a back up pair of boots when he's on a world tour?

Michele