Are there many Europeans on this forum ?

[suzyvermoesen]

Just wondering ...

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

There are a few...

[danax6]

Nope, they banned Europe. :distress:

[Stew_Matthews]

.............Europe tends to provide the most articulate, intelligent and good looking people on this Board ........we're just born that way.........I know some wont want to hear that but you know it's true :lol:!

[suzyvermoesen]

.............Europe tends to provide the most articulate, intelligent and good looking people on this Board ........we're just born that way.........I know some wont want to hear that but you know it's true :lol:!

Soooo true :nod: and that's just it; continental europeans tend to speak english quite well and i can therefore not distinguish them. I've spotted someone from Dendermonde (Belgium) in this forum and some dutch people, but you just cannot tell someone's origin from their username.
When d/l a torrent you can see from which countries you're downloading and i always find it fascinating and fun to see all those little flags from all over the planet. Makes you realize how small the world has become in some ways.
(and how much i came to love the internet :] )

[danax6]

.............Europe tends to provide the most articulate, intelligent and good looking people on this Board ........we're just born that way.........I know some wont want to hear that but you know it's true :lol:!Right on! And that's why they banned us. They need to feel superior at all times. They can't handle our greatness. :cool:

[Stew_Matthews]

Right on! And that's why they banned us. They need to feel superior at all times. They can't handle our greatness. :cool:


..................it's really nice at this time of day when the're all in bed:lol:.......so peaceful on the ledge........................though why they need so much sleep I don't know..........I mean Americans work about 5 hours a day don't they??:nod:

[shackin'up]

Right on! And that's why they banned us. They need to feel superior at all times. They can't handle our greatness. :cool:

Not a cell in my body argues with this.:D :cool:

[suzyvermoesen]

Right on! And that's why they banned us. They need to feel superior at all times. They can't handle our greatness. :cool:

you are joking right ?

[carrie721]

i' m sure you guys are "kidding" but let me put in my $.02:

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[danax6]

you are joking right ?Everything I say on this message board is dead serious.









;)

[danax6]

i' m sure you guys are "kidding" but let me put in my $.02:

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:And here's the worst of them all. :laugh:

[suzyvermoesen]

i' m sure you guys are "kidding" but let me put in my $.02:

rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Count yourself lucky we're kidding in english ;)

[suzyvermoesen]

[QUOTE=danax6;722744]Everything I say on this message board is dead serious.











:]:]:]:]:]:]:]:]:]:]

[carrie721]

Count yourself lucky we're kidding in english ;)

hey. i know how to use babelfish :laugh:

[suzyvermoesen]

Business is slow .... did you notice ? :lol:

[suzyvermoesen]

hey. i know how to use babelfish :laugh:

Ha ! Prove it !

[David]

Are there many Europeans on this forum?Too many, if you ask me.





:lol::lol::laugh:

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Too many, if you ask me.





:lol::lol::laugh:

Oy!:eek::lol:

[shackin'up]

Too many, if you ask me.



ha! you are one big european art-f*cker, you most european american on earth!


:nod::nod:


:laugh:

[Serrart]

ha! you are one big european art-f*cker, you most european american on earth!


:nod::nod:


:laugh:

Nah, I think he's extremely American, with some Far Eastern soul. :nod:

Romy

[The Catdancer]

Just wondering ...

I'm from Holland but live in the US.

[The Catdancer]

.............Europe tends to provide the most articulate, intelligent and good looking people on this Board ........we're just born that way.........I know some wont want to hear that but you know it's true :lol:!

I couldn't agree more :laugh:

[sasja]

I'm like Deb, a Dutch transplant.

[suzyvermoesen]

Debbie and Sasja,
What's it like ; living in the States when you're born and bred in Europe ?
My husband (who is also Dutch btw) has been nagging me to emigrate to the States for some years now. And maybe we would if we were younger.
I have always had a good time there, but then again being on holiday is not the same as actually living there.And after all, as tiny as this country is (and it might even get tinier :laugh:) we do have everything we need and i really love living here.Also my husband is anti church (no offense intended) so i think we might have a problem there :shrug:

[suzyvermoesen]

Too many, if you ask me.





:lol::lol::laugh:

I thought there would be more, especially from the UK.
Maybe they are more like me...lurking in the background most of the time :D

[elie]

Too many, if you ask me.





:lol::lol::laugh:

:laugh:


suzy:
I am from Athens, Greece.

[David]

Also my husband is anti church (no offense intended) so i think we might have a problem there :shrug:Shouldn't be a problem. Life in the States is quite safe for the non-believer. The system of jurisprudence punishes all types of tort, including the harassment of or injury to atheists.

[suzyvermoesen]

Shouldn't be a problem. Life in the States is quite safe for the non-believer. The system of jurisprudence punishes all types of tort, including the harassment of or injury to atheists.

The problem would be that he would get annoyed with all that religion. We have been to places in the States that had more churches than houses .
And in the US a lot more people seem to talk about God in comparison to people in Belgium/Northern Europe.
Don't get me wrong; we are not against religion.Live and let live is our motto.
It's just that we don't want it shoved into our face. Guess if we would ever move, we better not go live in the bible belt ;)

[rubytuesday]

Hi I'm new here to posting. I'm from Edinburgh. I've been studying and living in Melbourne for the past 3 years but am from the UK.

[suzyvermoesen]

Hi I'm new here to posting. I'm from Edinburgh. I've been studying and living in Melbourne for the past 3 years but am from the UK.

Wauw ! I've counted 9 europeans so far. Don't know if Romy (Serrart) is one, though i suspect she is and in that case we are 10 :)

[Han Solo]

There are more EU people here then 9. :wavey: They are probably lurking in the shadows, like me...........

[suzyvermoesen]

There are more EU people here then 9. :wavey: They are probably lurking in the shadows, like me...........

Yeaaaahhh... Hallo noorderbuur :wavey:

[Han Solo]

Hallo buurvrouw! :wavey:

[Sahara]

Welcome! :wavey: I was in Edinburgh a few years ago for a fortnight and it's a fantastic city, I can't wait to go back! Perhaps for the festival...

Irish Ledgie over here :wavey:

[Sahara]

Hi I'm new here to posting. I'm from Edinburgh. I've been studying and living in Melbourne for the past 3 years but am from the UK.
Welcome! :wavey: I was in Edinburgh a few years ago for a fortnight and it's a fantastic city, I can't wait to go back! Perhaps for the festival...

Irish Ledgie over here :wavey:

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Welcome! :wavey: I was in Edinburgh a few years ago for a fortnight and it's a fantastic city, I can't wait to go back! Perhaps for the festival...

Irish Ledgie over here :wavey:

I'm going to Edingurgh for the weekend in December. Can't wait!

[suzyvermoesen]

Welcome! :wavey: I was in Edinburgh a few years ago for a fortnight and it's a fantastic city, I can't wait to go back! Perhaps for the festival...

Irish Ledgie over here :wavey:

Edingburgh is on my list of "cities to visit". That is, if i find the money and time :lol:

[David]

Edingburgh is on my list of "cities to visit". That is, if i find the money and time :lol:When I think of Edinburgh, I think of Miss Jean Brodie.

http://www.reelfilm.com/images/primbrod.jpg http://www.movieactors.com/freezes1/PrimeJeanBrodie20.jpeg

[tuigirl]

Why dosn't somebody do a poll on this? If I could I would, but I don't have a clue how, but sombody must know...it'd sure be interesting.

[David]

Why dosn't somebody do a poll on this? If I could I would, but I don't have a clue how, but sombody must know...it'd sure be interesting.I think I can set it up. Wait -- what are we polling? Who has been to Edinburgh? I get quite lost in long threads.

[Serrart]

Wauw ! I've counted 9 europeans so far. Don't know if Romy (Serrart) is one, though i suspect she is and in that case we are 10 :)

Yes, I am. Hi from Italy. :)

Romy

[tuigirl]

I think I can set it up. Wait -- what are we polling? Who has been to Edinburgh? I get quite lost in long threads.

Actually I was thinking about how many Europeans there were, but then that could get tricky if you went thru each country, and if you included misplaced others (like me, living in Europe but not European). Hmmm...I was up early yesterday when I suggested it and obviously hadn't engaged my brain, at that time of morning! Who's been to Edinburgh might yield some good results though :laugh:

[The Catdancer]

Debbie and Sasja,
What's it like ; living in the States when you're born and bred in Europe ?
My husband (who is also Dutch btw) has been nagging me to emigrate to the States for some years now. And maybe we would if we were younger.
I have always had a good time there, but then again being on holiday is not the same as actually living there.And after all, as tiny as this country is (and it might even get tinier :laugh:) we do have everything we need and i really love living here.Also my husband is anti church (no offense intended) so i think we might have a problem there :shrug:

Sasja could probably answer your questions better than I can. I've only been here for 3 1/2 years and I think she's been here for 20+ years. Anyway, we're going to save all our money to go back to Holland. Maybe it has to do with age, I was 41 when I came here, but we also ran into bad luck: Peg (my g/f) worked for Verizon for 15 years and got fired just like that, my attorney sucked big time, we were homeless for 2 months begging on street corners for money or food (I did have a great tan though and lost 50 pounds:laugh:) etc. Fortunately Peg got a job, her boss and his wife helped us out big time, we're in a nice apartment but because it's a small company she has no benefits (no 401k, no healthcare etc). At least, in Holland when you get fired you'll get a check every month enough to pay rent and have food on the table. There's no such thing here. If she'd get fired tomorrow we'll be back on the streets next month because we wouldn't be able to pay rent.
I had been here before for vacation and I loved it but real life is very different. Plus when I was younger I was alot more flexible. Although I never thought I'd survive being homeless, it was one of my biggest nightmares but we stuck it out and are back to some kind of normalcy. Still, I'd like to go home, I miss the Dutch 'gezelligheid' (closeness).

[suzyvermoesen]

Sasja could probably answer your questions better than I can. I've only been here for 3 1/2 years and I think she's been here for 20+ years. Anyway, we're going to save all our money to go back to Holland. Maybe it has to do with age, I was 41 when I came here, but we also ran into bad luck: Peg (my g/f) worked for Verizon for 15 years and got fired just like that, my attorney sucked big time, we were homeless for 2 months begging on street corners for money or food (I did have a great tan though and lost 50 pounds:laugh:) etc. Fortunately Peg got a job, her boss and his wife helped us out big time, we're in a nice apartment but because it's a small company she has no benefits (no 401k, no healthcare etc). At least, in Holland when you get fired you'll get a check every month enough to pay rent and have food on the table. There's no such thing here. If she'd get fired tomorrow we'll be back on the streets next month because we wouldn't be able to pay rent.
I had been here before for vacation and I loved it but real life is very different. Plus when I was younger I was alot more flexible. Although I never thought I'd survive being homeless, it was one of my biggest nightmares but we stuck it out and are back to some kind of normalcy. Still, I'd like to go home, I miss the Dutch 'gezelligheid' (closeness).

That was exactly what i meant by having everything you need in this small country of ours (and the rest of Europe).
I was reading an interview with Michael Moore yesterday, about his latest movie "Sicko". For us it's unimaginable that you do not have the right to basic medical care unless you're privately insured. And about 6 years ago my husband got fired and it took him about a year to find another job. But during that time he did get unemployment benefit every month.Agreed that
it was no pot of gold but it was enough to tie us over. (when necessary you can economise on all kinds of things like clothing etc)
That has also been my greatest objection to emigrating to the US; we have built up so much social security here (pension, medical care, unemployment benefit etc..) that we would be foolish to leave all that behind at this stage in life (i'm 51 and my husband is 57)
Not that we can not become homeless. I'm sure that it only takes a few set-backs like losing your job then losing your partner and because of all that losing your home and your health, could land you on the streets. It can happen to all of us, even here in Europe.
But i do believe the social "safety net" over here works alot better than in the US.
I have been to the States on holiday for more than 20 years now, and what always struck me is how many old people still had to work because they had no other income whatsoever.
So i can see why you would want to come back to Europe. Btw :is Peg dutch too ? If not, she might be in for a culture shock, especially
our traffic will give her the creeps ..:eek:

[trackaghost]

I'm one of the few UK people on here.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

I'm one of the few UK people on here.

We may be few but we are special! :lol:

[danax6]

Fortunately Peg got a job, her boss and his wife helped us out big time, we're in a nice apartment but because it's a small company she has no benefits (no 401k, no healthcare etc). At least, in Holland when you get fired you'll get a check every month enough to pay rent and have food on the table. And you get health care!

I had been here before for vacation and I loved it but real life is very different. Plus when I was younger I was alot more flexible. Although I never thought I'd survive being homeless, it was one of my biggest nightmares but we stuck it out and are back to some kind of normalcy. Still, I'd like to go home, I miss the Dutch 'gezelligheid' (closeness).I'll trade you my apartment here for your apartment in San Fran, which is where I will be going next year. :laugh:

[suzyvermoesen]

I'll trade you my apartment here for your apartment in San Fran, which is where I will be going next year. :laugh:

Are you going to actually live there ? And now that Lindsey will be coming to Antwerp in 2008 :laugh::laugh:

Seriously, i liked San Francisco a lot. And tt's not that big, even to european standards. Loved the sea-lions !

[The Catdancer]

That was exactly what i meant by having everything you need in this small country of ours (and the rest of Europe).
I was reading an interview with Michael Moore yesterday, about his latest movie "Sicko". For us it's unimaginable that you do not have the right to basic medical care unless you're privately insured. And about 6 years ago my husband got fired and it took him about a year to find another job. But during that time he did get unemployment benefit every month.Agreed that
it was no pot of gold but it was enough to tie us over. (when necessary you can economise on all kinds of things like clothing etc)
That has also been my greatest objection to emigrating to the US; we have built up so much social security here (pension, medical care, unemployment benefit etc..) that we would be foolish to leave all that behind at this stage in life (i'm 51 and my husband is 57)
Not that we can not become homeless. I'm sure that it only takes a few set-backs like losing your job then losing your partner and because of all that losing your home and your health, could land you on the streets. It can happen to all of us, even here in Europe.
But i do believe the social "safety net" over here works alot better than in the US.
I have been to the States on holiday for more than 20 years now, and what always struck me is how many old people still had to work because they had no other income whatsoever.
So i can see why you would want to come back to Europe. Btw :is Peg dutch too ? If not, she might be in for a culture shock, especially
our traffic will give her the creeps ..:eek:

And that's exactly what I mean: your social security. I gave it all up. And yes, you could become homeless in Europe but at least the government is willing to help you. The government here takes care of itself and that's it. As for Michael Moore, I really like his movies but he only shows one side of the story and it's usually bad. There are good things in the USA. I guess I was too old to make such a radical change. If I would've done it in my twenties I wouldn't have had any problems. You sleep in a car at that age and your body won't ache, at 42 it's a different story. At your age, I'd stay in Belgium and just come over here for vacation.
Peg is an American, she never even left the country so she's gonna be in for a surprise to say the least. I'm showing her video clips and pictures of Holland and she's also learning the language. So far she loves it, especially the old buildings etc. I've warned her though: it's different when you live there. At first everything is awesome, as soon as the novelty wears off you'll be homesick.

[The Catdancer]

And you get health care!

I'll trade you my apartment here for your apartment in San Fran, which is where I will be going next year. :laugh:

No, no health care, we can't afford it. It's terribly expensive.

And I'm not in San Fran, I'm in Seattle.

[danax6]

And I'm not in San Fran, I'm in Seattle.Right, damn, I was confusing you with someone else. I'd go to Seattle also, though. :laugh:

[David]

If you want health insurance & can't afford it on your own, find an employer that pays a part of it for you. I've never in my life NOT worked for an employer that didn't put me on the group health insurance plan. Nor would I ever consider working for an employer that didn't -- unless I was making half a million & opted to buy my own insurance coverage. Just to satisfy my curiosity, I skimmed through the want ads in a few of the major newspapers down here (Los Angeles Times, Orange County Register, San Diego Union-Tribune), & the majority of hiring employers still offer insurance.

[David]

Right, damn, I was confusing you with someone else. I'd go to Seattle also, though. :laugh:Are you going to visit Ken (macfanken) in Seattle area?

Also up there is Jan or Jennifer or somebody .... no wait ... SARA! That's who else is up there --> Sara M.

[danax6]

Are you going to visit Ken (macfanken) in Seattle area?

Also up there is Jan or Jennifer or somebody .... no wait ... SARA! That's who else is up there --> Sara M.Nope.

I'm not going to Seattle, I'm going to San Francisco. And I won't be visiting anyone. :wavey:

[carrie721]

Nope.

I'm not going to Seattle, I'm going to San Francisco. And I won't be visiting anyone. :wavey:

crotchety bitch :laugh: :xoxo:

[danax6]

Especially not Carrie.

[carrie721]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

well if i'm ever in belgium, god forbid, i won't be paying you a visit either :D

[danax6]

Yeah, you'd have to look really hard for me there. :cool:

[carrie721]

Yeah, you'd have to look really hard for me there. :cool:

:p :p :p :p :p :p

[suzyvermoesen]

:p :p :p :p :p :p

thats ok, you can come see me instead :p

[carrie721]

thats ok, you can come see me instead :p

:laugh: okay!

[suzyvermoesen]

If you want health insurance & can't afford it on your own, find an employer that pays a part of it for you. I've never in my life NOT worked for an employer that didn't put me on the group health insurance plan. Nor would I ever consider working for an employer that didn't -- unless I was making half a million & opted to buy my own insurance coverage. Just to satisfy my curiosity, I skimmed through the want ads in a few of the major newspapers down here (Los Angeles Times, Orange County Register, San Diego Union-Tribune), & the majority of hiring employers still offer insurance.

Ofcourse i cannot compare the situation in the US with Europe, but appearances can deceive. If you look in the job section of our local newspapers, you will find an abundance of all sorts of jobs , but getting them is a whole other thing.We are being told by the media that the companies cannot get their vacancies filled and it's getting harder and harder to find staff. On the other hand, the year that my husband was unemployed , he firstly applied for jobs that were similar to the one he had lost (working for a shipping line agency). When that did not succeed, mainly because he was considered too old (51 at the time) , he started applying for other jobs and worked as a gardener for a few hours a week and also in a warehouse on temp basis. All because he just wanted to feel usefull again. What i'm trying to say David, is that sometimes you cannot choose the job you would like. In the end, my husband started working for a call center. It's not a bad job, he likes doing it (has been doing it for 3 years now) but it's not his preferred occupation and the pay is a lot less than what he was used to. But, it's still twice the amount of the unemployment benefit, so we count ourselves lucky.
A friend of mine who's 48 years old has lost her job 3 months ago. She was a sales person and earned a good living as we say, with the benefits of a company car, laptop and cellphone. So far she has not yet found a new job because she is holding out for a similar job with similar benefits. She could have been working again by now if she had not set her standards so high, so i hope for her sake she finds the job she wants. Otherwise she will have to make do with what she can get.
All i'm trying to say basically is : never say never :shrug:

[rubytuesday]

If you want health insurance & can't afford it on your own, find an employer that pays a part of it for you. I've never in my life NOT worked for an employer that didn't put me on the group health insurance plan. Nor would I ever consider working for an employer that didn't -- unless I was making half a million & opted to buy my own insurance coverage. Just to satisfy my curiosity, I skimmed through the want ads in a few of the major newspapers down here (Los Angeles Times, Orange County Register, San Diego Union-Tribune), & the majority of hiring employers still offer insurance.

I was wondering what happens with those people who don't work or can't work. Do they get any kind of insurance?

[skcin]

I was wondering what happens with those people who don't work or can't work. Do they get any kind of insurance?

In the U.S.? Disabled people can get social security & some qualify for Medicare, which is paid by taxpayers. The poor can get Medicaid, which is also paid for by taxpayers. The problem is that often, working poor make just a little bit too much to qualify, so they suffer without health insurance. People who can't (or, unfortunately, just don't) work usually do qualify. Therefore, it's actually a better deal for many people to stay unemployed & live off the welfare & the Medicaid system, rather than get an entry-level job that offers no benefits. Sad but true.

[Gailh]

We may be few but we are special! :lol:

Yes we are the "special ones" to quote Mr Mourinho :laugh:

Gail

[David]

What i'm trying to say David, is that sometimes you cannot choose the job you would like. I agree completely. Those "rainy days" we refer to & try to save for can happen to anyone, at any time. People might be laid off owing to a bad economy or offshoring or dozens of other reasons, & would be forced to pay hundreds of dollars per month on COBRA health insurance coverage, until they can find another job with coverage kicking in. (COBRA is the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act, which provides temporary coverage for a payment to many of those who are laid off. It's completely voluntary & unfortunately many workers find it too expensive, especially if they've been laid off & don't have an income.)

Health insurance coverage is extremely important to me, & I never deliberately seek out employment without it. Naturally, I hope I am never forced to take employment with group plan coverage, but it might happen someday. Hope not. I sock aside what money I can (in addition to retirement) just in case I need to buy my own medical coverage some day.

[Serrart]

I agree completely. Those "rainy days" we refer to & try to save for can happen to anyone, at any time. People might be laid off owing to a bad economy or offshoring or dozens of other reasons, & would be forced to pay hundreds of dollars per month on COBRA health insurance coverage, until they can find another job with coverage kicking in. (COBRA is the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act, which provides temporary coverage for a payment to many of those who are laid off. It's completely voluntary & unfortunately many workers find it too expensive, especially if they've been laid off & don't have an income.)

Health insurance coverage is extremely important to me, & I never deliberately seek out employment without it. Naturally, I hope I am never forced to take employment with group plan coverage, but it might happen someday. Hope not. I sock aside what money I can (in addition to retirement) just in case I need to buy my own medical coverage some day.

It sounds like a Kafkian short story. How Americans don't ask for a public healthcare is a mystery to me...

Romy

[David]

It sounds like a Kafkian short story. How Americans don't ask for a public healthcare is a mystery to me...

RomyWell, many of us, me included, aren't terribly sure we want one; but a system fully administered by the state is probably on its way in the coming years.

Also, I made a typo in my previous post. I said: I hope I am never forced to take employment with group plan coverage;

but what I meant was: I hope I am never forced to take employment withOUT group plan coverage

I definitely depend on employer-sponsored coverage. If & when the state cuts my taxes enough for me to easily afford excellent private coverage, I'll rethink.

[The Catdancer]

Ofcourse i cannot compare the situation in the US with Europe, but appearances can deceive. If you look in the job section of our local newspapers, you will find an abundance of all sorts of jobs , but getting them is a whole other thing.We are being told by the media that the companies cannot get their vacancies filled and it's getting harder and harder to find staff. On the other hand, the year that my husband was unemployed , he firstly applied for jobs that were similar to the one he had lost (working for a shipping line agency). When that did not succeed, mainly because he was considered too old (51 at the time) , he started applying for other jobs and worked as a gardener for a few hours a week and also in a warehouse on temp basis. All because he just wanted to feel usefull again. What i'm trying to say David, is that sometimes you cannot choose the job you would like. In the end, my husband started working for a call center. It's not a bad job, he likes doing it (has been doing it for 3 years now) but it's not his preferred occupation and the pay is a lot less than what he was used to. But, it's still twice the amount of the unemployment benefit, so we count ourselves lucky.
A friend of mine who's 48 years old has lost her job 3 months ago. She was a sales person and earned a good living as we say, with the benefits of a company car, laptop and cellphone. So far she has not yet found a new job because she is holding out for a similar job with similar benefits. She could have been working again by now if she had not set her standards so high, so i hope for her sake she finds the job she wants. Otherwise she will have to make do with what she can get.
All i'm trying to say basically is : never say never :shrug:

And that's what I'm trying to tell you. You might think Belgium is the pitts but you're better off there. I'm not putting the USA down, I'm merely trying to tell you what the differences are.
Your friend has been laid off, no more company car, no more cell phone, no more laptop etc. but... she gets money from the government to tie her over, right???

[suzyvermoesen]

And that's what I'm trying to tell you. You might think Belgium is the pitts but you're better off there. I'm not putting the USA down, I'm merely trying to tell you what the differences are.
Your friend has been laid off, no more company car, no more cell phone, no more laptop etc. but... she gets money from the government to tie her over, right???

Yes she does, fortunately.
And i don't think Belgium is the pitts, i love living here (Antwerp). I'm a "Sinjoor" through and through and we are known for our chauvinism (and stubborness :lol: )