Federal court upholds Illinois law banning horse slaughter

[gldstwmn]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-ap-il-horseslaughter,1,7041500.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

CHICAGO - A federal appeals court in Chicago has upheld an Illinois law that bans the slaughter of horses for human consumption.

Unless an appeal is filed, the ruling will force the closure of the Cavel (kuh-VEHL') International plant in DeKalb, the last horse slaughtering plant in the United States.

The meat is shipped to be eaten by diners overseas, except for a portion sold to U.S. zoos.

The state of Illinois banned that practice earlier this year, but the plant had been operating while the court of appeals made its decision.

The Cavel plant has operated in DeKalb for about 20 years, and plant officials say it slaughters about 1,000 horses a week.

[Sarah]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-ap-il-horseslaughter,1,7041500.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

CHICAGO - A federal appeals court in Chicago has upheld an Illinois law that bans the slaughter of horses for human consumption.

Unless an appeal is filed, the ruling will force the closure of the Cavel (kuh-VEHL') International plant in DeKalb, the last horse slaughtering plant in the United States.

The meat is shipped to be eaten by diners overseas, except for a portion sold to U.S. zoos.

The state of Illinois banned that practice earlier this year, but the plant had been operating while the court of appeals made its decision.

The Cavel plant has operated in DeKalb for about 20 years, and plant officials say it slaughters about 1,000 horses a week.



Good. Get that **** out of here. :mad: And.. a portion sold to U.S. zoos? WTF? :mad: x 2

I cannot understand how anyone could work there. If there was no other form of employment, I'd let myself get homeless and starve to death first. There is absolutely no way. Not for all the money in the world. Absolutely disgusting... this is making my stomach churn.

[bretonbanquet]

It's good news in theory, but I wonder how those 1000 unwanted horses per week will be treated now. They'll still be unwanted and they may be slaughtered in less humane ways. The whole thing is ugly :(

[DrummerDeanna]

Good. Get that **** out of here. :mad: And.. a portion sold to U.S. zoos? WTF? :mad: x 2

I cannot understand how anyone could work there. If there was no other form of employment, I'd let myself get homeless and starve to death first. There is absolutely no way. Not for all the money in the world. Absolutely disgusting... this is making my stomach churn.

I'm guessing for other animals to eat? Either that or I'm NEVER eating at a zoo snack stand again :eek:


I was thinking the same thing about the workers. While it's sad to put that many people out of work - how can one work there!?! I couldn't live with myself...though I don't have a family to feed so I guess I can't judge.

Still...I'm glad the ban was upheld and I'm very happy that the last U.S. horse slaughter house is closing!

[Sarah]

I'm guessing for other animals to eat? Either that or I'm NEVER eating at a zoo snack stand again :eek:


i would have thought they'd find more natural ways to feed than to patronize a horse slaughterhouse. but, true, a lot of zoos aren't exactly the epitome of animal wellfare. of course, there are some very conscientious zoos and handlers out there, but there are also plenty of low budget animal showcases. :distress:

breton, that's an interesting point. i would hope farmers would, yknow, stop raising horses for slaughter and move on to something else. cattle, maybe? not that i'm glad to see cattle slaughterhouses either, but that's a trade that isn't going to be going anywhere anytime soon, so it'd at least be reliable work for them.

[bretonbanquet]

breton, that's an interesting point. i would hope farmers would, yknow, stop raising horses for slaughter and move on to something else. cattle, maybe? not that i'm glad to see cattle slaughterhouses either, but that's a trade that isn't going to be going anywhere anytime soon, so it'd at least be reliable work for them.

Exactly :nod: Hopefully this should get the message home that there's no future in breeding horses for food, and these farmers and slaughterhouse workers can move on to something more mainstream. As you say, no-one's going to be banning the slaughter of cattle or pigs anytime soon, so there's work for these guys out there. I just hope there's no nasty transitional period during which horses get inhumanely offed because they're in the way and unprofitable. Maybe animal welfare groups in that area will be on the lookout and will try to make sure this doesn't happen.

As for the zoos, they'll just have to use other kinds of meat. Hopefully it'll be more expensive for the crappy, brutal zoos and it'll push them towards closure. People really should be able to spot a bad zoo anyway, and just not visit.

[skcin]

But what about the dogs? And the babies?


:(:(:(:(:(

[Sarah]

But what about the dogs? And the babies?


:(:(:(:(:(

Leave the dogs alone.

Use the babies for lion food.

:cool:

[kathy1]

good news. i hope it stays that way.

[Sarah]

Exactly :nod: Hopefully this should get the message home that there's no future in breeding horses for food, and these farmers and slaughterhouse workers can move on to something more mainstream. As you say, no-one's going to be banning the slaughter of cattle or pigs anytime soon, so there's work for these guys out there. I just hope there's no nasty transitional period during which horses get inhumanely offed because they're in the way and unprofitable. Maybe animal welfare groups in that area will be on the lookout and will try to make sure this doesn't happen.

As for the zoos, they'll just have to use other kinds of meat. Hopefully it'll be more expensive for the crappy, brutal zoos and it'll push them towards closure. People really should be able to spot a bad zoo anyway, and just not visit.


Perhaps the groups that have pushed the suits to close the place have already thought of this. I hope they would have that foresight.

[trackaghost]

But what about the dogs? And the babies?


:(:(:(:(:(


omg, that was exactly what I was going to post :lol:

[Miss Vicky]

This may sound like a stupid question, but are there farmers who breed horses specifically for slaughter?

I was under the (perhaps false) impression that the horses going to slaughter either were simply no longer wanted or no longer usable for riding, feral horses from government round-ups, and mares and foals that are "by-products" or "surplus" from the production of estrogen therapy drugs (like Premarin).

[bretonbanquet]

I was under the (perhaps false) impression that the horses going to slaughter either were simply no longer wanted or no longer usable for riding, feral horses from government round-ups, and mares and foals that are "by-products" or "surplus" from the production of estrogen therapy drugs (like Premarin).

Although I'm sure there are farmers who breed horses for meat, your other points are the kind of thing I was initially worried about. Riding horses tend to be reasonably well looked after until they're too old to ride, here at least anyway, and most riding schools would make sure they're euthanised humanely. But as for the government and the medical industry, I doubt very much that animal welfare is anywhere near top priority. But if this horse abattoir is the last one in the US, surely pharmaceutical companies that are based nowhere near this last slaughterhouse have found other ways of disposing of their animals?

[Miss Vicky]

But if this horse abattoir is the last one in the US, surely pharmaceutical companies that are based nowhere near this last slaughterhouse have found other ways of disposing of their animals?


Yes, I'm sure they have. I vaguely recall reading that many of them ship the animals to Canada for slaughter or sell them at auction to "killer buyers" who then export them for slaughter. I could be wrong though.

I just had to ask because the notion of breeding horses specifically for slaughter just seemed odd to me.

[trackaghost]

I'm pretty sure that quite a few countries breed horses specifically for slaughter. You can buy horse meat in the supermarket over in France.

[skcin]

I vaguely recall reading that many of them ship the animals to Canada for slaughter...

F*cking Canada. :mad:

[bretonbanquet]

F*cking Canada. :mad:

Exactly. W**kers. :mad:

I'm sure Miss V is right, I mean, big companies will always find other ways to perpetuate the s**t that they do, ways that circumvent the law. At least this kind of law makes it more of a pain in the ass for them, even if it doesn't help the animals in every case. Fundamentally, too many people are assholes, and will exploit animals in whatever way they see fit, whether that's rightly or wrongly for the good of humanity, for food, or just for the hell of it. All the rest of us can do is try to minimise it :(

[danax6]

I'm pretty sure that quite a few countries breed horses specifically for slaughter. You can buy horse meat in the supermarket over in France.Yes, I'm pretty sure you can still buy it here also. I have to admit, it's quite tasty. :o But the last time I ate it was in France.

[Sarah]

Exactly. W**kers. :mad:

I'm sure Miss V is right, I mean, big companies will always find other ways to perpetuate the s**t that they do, ways that circumvent the law. At least this kind of law makes it more of a pain in the ass for them, even if it doesn't help the animals in every case. Fundamentally, too many people are assholes, and will exploit animals in whatever way they see fit, whether that's rightly or wrongly for the good of humanity, for food, or just for the hell of it. All the rest of us can do is try to minimise it :(

Yes. There are too many stories of people hurting animals just to watch suffering and death. Shooting cows with low caliber weapons so they'll suffer longer. Slicing a horse's shoulder muscle very deep so it bleeds to death. Putrid.

If any sort of hell exists at all, I like to think there's a special spot there for mother****ers who do that kind of crap, whether they ask forgiveness or not. It should be an automatic pass, do not pass go.

[bretonbanquet]

Yes, I'm pretty sure you can still buy it here also. I have to admit, it's quite tasty. :o But the last time I ate it was in France.

:(

Yes. There are too many stories of people hurting animals just to watch suffering and death. Shooting cows with low caliber weapons so they'll suffer longer. Slicing a horse's shoulder muscle very deep so it bleeds to death. Putrid.

If any sort of hell exists at all, I like to think there's a special spot there for mother****ers who do that kind of crap, whether they ask forgiveness or not. It should be an automatic pass, do not pass go.

Absolutely. I'd believe in a God who strung those ****ers up for all eternity so the rest of us could amuse ourselves by torturing them on those occasions when life everlasting got too boring :)

[danax6]

:(
Honestly, I've never given it much thought. Horse meat is used for a lot of things here, including traditional Dutch dishes, like 'zuurvlees' and 'hachee'. :shrug:

Isn't horse meat still used for glue also?

[bretonbanquet]

Honestly, I've never given it much thought. Horse meat is used for a lot of things here, including traditional Dutch dishes, like 'zuurvlees' and 'hachee'. :shrug:

Isn't horse meat still used for glue also?

I knoowww :( Europeans.. our traditionally less civilised neighbours :distress:

It's okay.. I'll just keep my horse away from you :(

And yeah, it is :( Use staples :(

[irishgrl]

This may sound like a stupid question, but are there farmers who breed horses specifically for slaughter?

I was under the (perhaps false) impression that the horses going to slaughter either were simply no longer wanted or no longer usable for riding, feral horses from government round-ups, and mares and foals that are "by-products" or "surplus" from the production of estrogen therapy drugs (like Premarin).
I was thinking the same thing......my impression was that this slaughterhouse was the infamous "glue factory" you hear about....not that farmers actually raise horses for food...:shrug:

I dont know that much about it tho so perhaps someone better informed could fill us in?

[Miss Vicky]

I'm pretty sure that quite a few countries breed horses specifically for slaughter. You can buy horse meat in the supermarket over in France.

Yeah, well, I was referring to American farmers. I'm well aware that horse meat is popular elsewhere in the world.

Sorry for the lack of clarity.

[Sarah]

I'd venture to guess that as long as they can make a living off of it and the government doesn't have some sort of regulation on raising horses for the purpose of slaughter, there probably are some farmers who would be willing to raise and sell no matter the purpose.

[Miss Vicky]

I'd venture to guess that as long as they can make a living off of it and the government doesn't have some sort of regulation on raising horses for the purpose of slaughter, there probably are some farmers who would be willing to raise and sell no matter the purpose.

Out of my own curiosity, I looked for some articles online about where the horses that go to slaughter come from. The literature I can find on it all seem to quote that the most common sources of horse meat in the U.S. are "unsuccessful race horses, horses who are lame or ill, surplus riding school and camp horses, mares whose foals are not economically valuable, and foals who are "byproducts" of the Pregnant Mare Urine (PMU) industry, which produces the estrogen-replacement drug Premarin®." (Link (http://www.hsus.org/pets/issues_affecting_our_pets/equine_protection/get_the_facts_on_horse_slaughter.html)) One article I found also added this source to the list: "Additionally, hundreds—perhaps thousands—of horses are stolen each year. Horse thieves make quick money by unloading illegally obtained horses to killer-buyers and slaughterhouses. Slaughterhouses typically kill and process horses within 24 hours, making it impossible to trace and recover animals in time." (Link (http://www.awionline.org/othercampaigns/horse_slaughter.htm)) I could find no mention of horses farmed specifically for slaughter in this country. Which is, of course, not to say that such facilities don't exist, but if they do they don't seem to be known and don't seem to be a major contributing factor.

Again, this was just for my own curiosity. I'm not trying to argue a point.

P.S. - My research confirmed that most American horses that wind up in slaughterhouses are shipped alive over the border to either Canada or Mexico for slaughter.

[irishgrl]

thanks for that Vicky.

[Sarah]

Again, this was just for my own curiosity. I'm not trying to argue a point.

P.S. - My research confirmed that most American horses that wind up in slaughterhouses are shipped alive over the border to either Canada or Mexico for slaughter.

It kind of seems that you are, but I will take your comment at face value and I appreciate your research.

Regardless of whether they're raised to be killed or if they're "unwanted byproducts", it's still heinous. The term "unwanted byproduct" makes me feel a little more sick, to be honest. It's a living creature.

Under federal law, horses are required to be rendered unconscious prior to slaughter, usually with a device called a captive bolt gun, which shoots a metal rod into the horse's brain. Some horses, however, are improperly stunned and are conscious when they are hoisted by a rear leg to have their throats cut. In addition, conditions in the slaughterhouse are stressful and frightening for horses.

Anyone who even considers eating horse meat should be made aware of this. If it's fine with them, maybe they should have a metal rod shot into their brain.

[Nixxxed]

^ That's exactly how they slaughter and process cows, except they also strip off the hide while the bodily fluids are draining.

ETA: I just checked. They skin the horses too.

[Miss Vicky]

It kind of seems that you are, but I will take your comment at face value and I appreciate your research.

This comment of yours: "I would hope farmers would, yknow, stop raising horses for slaughter and move on to something else. cattle, maybe?" piqued my curiosity. I'd never heard of people in the U.S. raising horses for slaughter and I wanted to know if there was any evidence of it, simply to keep myself informed.

Regardless of whether they're raised to be killed or if they're "unwanted byproducts", it's still heinous. The term "unwanted byproduct" makes me feel a little more sick, to be honest. It's a living creature.

I don't disagree - which is why I've been a vegetarian for over ten years.


Anyone who even considers eating horse meat should be made aware of this. If it's fine with them, maybe they should have a metal rod shot into their brain.

Do you eat meat? If so, you should also be aware that captive bolt guns are commonly used to "stun" many species of livestock - including cattle and pigs (BTW, pigs are highly intelligent animals with capacities similar to dogs) - prior to their actual slaughter. Just as in horses, this method is commonly ineffective and many animals are fully conscious when strung up and cut open at the slaughterhouse.

[Sarah]

^ That's exactly how they slaughter and process cows, except they also strip off the hide while the bodily fluids are draining.

Barf. Like I said earlier. It's not that I want cows to be slaughtered, but that industry isn't going away any time soon. At least the practice of doing it to horses is leaving this country.

[Miss Vicky]

Barf. Like I said earlier. It's not that I want cows to be slaughtered, but that industry isn't going away any time soon. At least the practice of doing it to horses is leaving this country.

Which makes me wonder if there are any similar regulations regarding the methods for slaughter in Canada and Mexico.

Edit:

I have another question. In an earlier post (in fact, the same one where you mention the raising of horses for slaughter) you said this in regards to the use of horse meat to feed zoo animals: "i would have thought they'd find more natural ways to feed than to patronize a horse slaughterhouse. but, true, a lot of zoos aren't exactly the epitome of animal wellfare. of course, there are some very conscientious zoos and handlers out there, but there are also plenty of low budget animal showcases."

For the record, I'm against the holding of wild animals in captivity, but that's a different subject entirely. However, I wanted to ask what sort of "more natural ways to feed" do you suggest? Should the zoos import bushmeat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushmeat) to feed their animals? That would obviously be the most natural way of feeding, but somehow I think that would meet quite a bit of opposition - most importantly because it's illegal. Perhaps they should harvest deer and other fauna native to the states? But then, how would that be any more natural than horse meat? Or do you suggest they switch to cow meat, pig meat, chickens, etc.? Which then, of course, begs the question: Just how natural are those options?

I am genuinely curious to know your answer.

[Sarah]

Which makes me wonder if there are any similar regulations regarding the methods for slaughter in Canada and Mexico.

Edit:

I have another question. In an earlier post (in fact, the same one where you mention the raising of horses for slaughter) you said this in regards to the use of horse meat to feed zoo animals: "i would have thought they'd find more natural ways to feed than to patronize a horse slaughterhouse. but, true, a lot of zoos aren't exactly the epitome of animal wellfare. of course, there are some very conscientious zoos and handlers out there, but there are also plenty of low budget animal showcases."

For the record, I'm against the holding of wild animals in captivity, but that's a different subject entirely. However, I wanted to ask what sort of "more natural ways to feed" do you suggest? Should the zoos import bushmeat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushmeat) to feed their animals? That would obviously be the most natural way of feeding, but somehow I think that would meet quite a bit of opposition - most importantly because it's illegal. Perhaps they should harvest deer and other fauna native to the states? But then, how would that be any more natural than horse meat? Or do you suggest they switch to cow meat, pig meat, chickens, etc.? Which then, of course, begs the question: Just how natural are those options?

I am genuinely curious to know your answer.

I also am against wild animals in captivity, except for the sake of trying to increase the population of an endangered species.

Honestly though, if "they" want to try to recreate an animal's natural habitat, it seems to me that allowing it to hunt (within its confined space :distress:) at feeding time would be the most "natural" (that really is for lack of better term) way to do it. The animal should be fed whatever it would eat in the wild - in its native area - but it's not exactly feasible to load up the lion's cage with zebras and gazelles, I suppose. It's a difficult subject all around I think. My bottom line was that.. with a process as cruel as the slaughter house is.. I would have thought that zoos, which supposedly pride themselves on their care of animals, would come up with something better. I don't claim to know the answers, dude.. I'm just saying. Even if they have to use horsemeat, it seems like they could come up with something better than buying it from a place that kills 1000s a week to ship overseas and ****.

It's just gross. :(

[Miss Vicky]

I would have thought that zoos, which supposedly pride themselves on their care of animals, would come up with something better. I don't claim to know the answers, dude.. I'm just saying. Even if they have to use horsemeat, it seems like they could come up with something better than buying it from a place that kills 1000s a week to ship overseas and ****.

It's just gross. :(

Frankly, I'm a bit shocked that you would suggest locking prey animals in the enclosure with the predators where they would have no chance to escape, surely you cannot consider that either natural or ethical. Besides, zoos would never be able to get away with that. Public outcry over such a practice would no doubt be overwhelming.

In any case, there doesn't seem to be a practical way to humanely kill large animals for the purposes of consumption - whether they're killed in the thousands or in smaller numbers. Unless I am overlooking a possibility, humane killing can really only be achieved with chemical methods. Unfortunately, those same chemicals make the meat unfit for consumption by man or animal.

I know that you don't have the answers, neither do I, but it seems futile to me to say that people must change their ways when you can't provide them with a better alternative.

[Sarah]

Frankly, I'm a bit shocked that you would suggest locking prey animals in the enclosure with the predators where they would have no chance to escape, surely you cannot consider that either natural or ethical. Besides, zoos would never be able to get away with that. Public outcry over such a practice would no doubt be overwhelming.

In any case, there doesn't seem to be a practical way to humanely kill large animals for the purposes of consumption - whether they're killed in the thousands or in smaller numbers. Unless I am overlooking a possibility, humane killing can really only be achieved with chemical methods. Unfortunately, those same chemicals make the meat unfit for consumption by man or animal.

I know that you don't have the answers, neither do I, but it seems futile to me to say that people must change their ways when you can't provide them with a better alternative.

Okay, well, I'm a damn moron and I'm sorry I said anything at all. Jesus. Is that what you want? I'll say it just to end this stupid-ass debate. Slaughtering horses is nasty. The end.

[Miss Vicky]

Okay, well, I'm a damn moron and I'm sorry I said anything at all. Jesus. Is that what you want? I'll say it just to end this stupid-ass debate. Slaughtering horses is nasty. The end.

Stupid-ass debate?

What I want is for you to use logic in your reasoning. One of the big reasons why the animal rights movement is seen as a joke by so many people is because so many of its supporters base their arguments on emotions alone and a) don't back up their claims with factual evidence and b) preach to people about wrong doing while failing to provide them with the tools to do right.

I agree that slaughtering horses is nasty. I've said that already. There's no argument there. I only question the reasoning behind your statements and ask for clarification.

[Sarah]

Stupid-ass debate?

What I want is for you to use logic in your reasoning. One of the big reasons why the animal rights movement is seen as a joke by so many people is because so many of its supporters base their arguments on emotions alone and a) don't back up their claims with factual evidence and b) preach to people about wrong doing while failing to provide them with the tools to do right.

I agree that slaughtering horses is nasty. I've said that already. There's no argument there. I only question the reasoning behind your statements and ask for clarification.

No hon. I definitely base my opinions and viewpoints on my emotions. There are great thinkers out there who can come up with the solutions. I'm not one of them. It hurts me to see the nasty things people do to animals... it hurts me very deeply. But I don't have the tools or resources to give what it would take to help them make their changes, other than my beliefs that what they're doing is wrong and my ability to sign a petition or donate whatever few dollars I may have to spare. I know you agree that their slaughter is nasty. I'm not debating that with you at all. I just think you're asking a bit much for everyone who cares about what happens to them to be able to provide some huge solution. If that was possible, there wouldn't be any problems worldwide.

I read one of your views in another thread.. I don't remember where or exactly what it was that you'd said.. about counting every animal as equal, so the slaughter or eating of horses, dogs, cows, chickens, pigs, whatever, is all the same to you. I understand where you're coming from with that, but I guess I can't say that I feel the same way. I do value certain animals more than certain others. Not just domesticated vs. non.. and I do have love for all of them and appreciate their unique ways and beauty.. but I suppose it twists my heart just a bit more for a horse, dog, cat, frog, whatever.. being used for food more so than it does when a cow, pig, or chicken is. You are obviously the superior animal rights activist... but that doesn't mean I don't care about them. :)

[Miss Vicky]

I just think you're asking a bit much for everyone who cares about what happens to them to be able to provide some huge solution.

I don't expect everyone who cares to provide an answer. I just hope that people will at least take the time to look for one.

And while I, too, don't have an answer for a way to stop the slaughter, I think there are ways to improve the situation. Just as you have stated that the slaughter of cattle won't stop anytime soon, I don't think that the slaughter of horses will either. Proponents of horse slaughter argue that it is a necessary means of population control, that there simply aren't enough homes for these horses. Opponents of the practice claim that this isn't true. But regarding this particular point, I have to side with the "enemy." If the statistics provided in that article are accurate, that this one slaughterhouse alone kills about 1,000 horses a week, that equates to approximately 52,000 horses a year - to say nothing of the countless horses being shipped across the borders to their deaths. I just can't see how there could possibly be enough homes for them. That being said, I think the only way to make a difference is through reform, not only of the meat industry but also of the practices that produce this surplus of animals. I think tighter regulations need to be made regarding the care and transport of horses - and, indeed, any animal - bound for slaughter. I think there needs to be a bigger effort to educate the public about Premarin production and to put a stop to the cruelties associated with the horseracing industry. Closing down this last slaughterhouse isn't going to stop the killing, it's only going to move more of it elsewhere. But I guess to those who don't look at the bigger picture, this out-of-sight-out-of-mind resolution is good enough.

[irishgrl]

Vicky, I just LOVE you. Yes I Do.

[Sarah]

I don't expect everyone who cares to provide an answer. I just hope that people will at least take the time to look for one.

And while I, too, don't have an answer for a way to stop the slaughter, I think there are ways to improve the situation. Just as you have stated that the slaughter of cattle won't stop anytime soon, I don't think that the slaughter of horses will either. Proponents of horse slaughter argue that it is a necessary means of population control, that there simply aren't enough homes for these horses. Opponents of the practice claim that this isn't true. But regarding this particular point, I have to side with the "enemy." If the statistics provided in that article are accurate, that this one slaughterhouse alone kills about 1,000 horses a week, that equates to approximately 52,000 horses a year - to say nothing of the countless horses being shipped across the borders to their deaths. I just can't see how there could possibly be enough homes for them. That being said, I think the only way to make a difference is through reform, not only of the meat industry but also of the practices that produce this surplus of animals. I think tighter regulations need to be made regarding the care and transport of horses - and, indeed, any animal - bound for slaughter. I think there needs to be a bigger effort to educate the public about Premarin production and to put a stop to the cruelties associated with the horseracing industry. Closing down this last slaughterhouse isn't going to stop the killing, it's only going to move more of it elsewhere. But I guess to those who don't look at the bigger picture, this out-of-sight-out-of-mind resolution is good enough.

I understand what you're saying. And honestly, I appreciate your stance. If we were discussing this in a more "official" setting, really, I'd have not said anything from the start. My initial posts were from an assumption that there were some horses being raised just for slaughter. Your sources have shown that that may not be true, and I am GLAD glad glad about that. I would have never imagined, though, that there would be 1000+ unwanted byproducts/ill/etc available per week. That number is staggering.

This is a very good point you've made. It does seem that it'd be impossible to find homes for 52,000+ lame, ill, and otherwise unwanted horses. I guess to some it could be an out-of-sight, out-of-mind resolution to just shutting it down in America.. but I am an American, so I can have an opinion about what goes on here. I don't like a lot of things that go on in other parts of the world, but my opinion there doesn't really matter and I have no say so (particularly when the rest of the world pretty much hates us, huh). The best I can hope for is that they'd follow suit. This really is a double edged sword... it's a nasty death or a slow suffering death from their illnesses, unless someone would be willing to provide the necessary euthanasia in a cost-effective way.

[danax6]

Some info in case anyone is interested: Horses in Europe aren't raised for slaughter, most of the horse meat gets imported from America (with Argentina being the biggest supplier). Only horses that are no longer economically profitable go to the slaughterhouse. The consuming of horse meat in Europe is really only not-done in the UK. The Netherlands used to have a few slaughterhouses specialized in horses, which were different from the regular slaughterhouses, but most have ceased to exist. In fact, they are slowly ceasing to exist throughout entire Western Europe.

[Sarah]

Some info in case anyone is interested: Horses in Europe aren't raised for slaughter, most of the horse meat gets imported from America (with Argentina being the biggest supplier). Only horses that are no longer economically profitable go to the slaughterhouse. The consuming of horse meat in Europe is really only not-done in the UK. The Netherlands used to have a few slaughterhouses specialized in horses, which were different from the regular slaughterhouses, but most have ceased to exist. In fact, they are slowly ceasing to exist throughout entire Western Europe.

Thanks for sharing that, Vanessa. Do you think it's because people are losing the taste for eating horsemeat or for other (economic? sociopolitical?) reasons?

[danax6]

Thanks for sharing that, Vanessa. Do you think it's because people are losing the taste for eating horsemeat or for other (economic? sociopolitical?) reasons?Probably a combination of factors, but I think it's mainly because of sociopolitical reasons. The fact that it's illegal in the US and just not-done in the UK is slowly starting to rub off on at least this part of the world and subconsciously I guess people are losing their taste for it.

[Miss Vicky]

^Well, demand for horse meat may be waning a bit, but it's definitely still there. I was just reading an article (Link (http://www.equuseditorial.com/equus/slaughtereurope.html)) that was written in 2005 and updated last year that mentioned a Polish slaughterhouse that sells most of its meat to Italy and Japan - a country not known for its concern over animal wellfare, or even the protection of endangered species. It also states that there are "horse abattoirs and butcheries in Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Poland, Romania, Russia, Spain and Switzerland," I'm sure those who deal in American horse meat will have no trouble finding buyers.

One thing this article mentioned that I found interesting is that "horse connoisseurs" prefer the meat of Quarterhorses and Thoroughbreds, the two most popular breeds in America.