Book Discussion: The Lovely Bones

[JazmenFlowers]

please have Chapters 1-5 read by August 27. discussions will begin on the 28th.

I'm in the middle of Chapter 3.

[skcin]

I think that's more than enough time, but some who may not have a ton of spare time or are slow readers RYAN! may need it. :D So I think it's OK.

[Rickypt]

I think that's more than enough time, but some who may not have a ton of spare time or are slow readers RYAN! may need it. :D So I think it's OK.

:D

I think August 31st is great. I just picked up the book yesterday and plan to read on the plane later this week.

[camchristo]

Ok by me! :)

[danax6]

Can we all try to have Chapters 1-5 read by August 31? is that enough time? too much time?

I'm in the middle of Chapter 3.****, by then I'll probably be finished with it already. :laugh:

[Rickypt]

I can commit to finishing Chaps 1-5 by August 27th if you want to move the date up and start discussing on Monday.

[jannieC]

Sounds good to me- this is a re-read for me.

[JazmenFlowers]

I can commit to finishing Chaps 1-5 by August 27th if you want to move the date up and start discussing on Monday.
done.

though, y'all will have to start without me cause I'm sure I'll still be hung over. I even went ahead and took off from work.

[Rickypt]

^^Oh, I see you have a birthday coming up! How about Tuesday 28th then. We can't start w/o our leader.

[skcin]

Jazzy, I cannot believe you're putting your birthday before this very important deadline. :mad:



:p

[JazmenFlowers]

Jazzy, I cannot believe you're putting your birthday before this very important deadline. :mad:



:p
a bitch can not live on chiffon and/or internet romanticism alone honey. ;)

[skcin]

OK, I read my assigned chapters last night. :D Can I post my thoughts, or should we all wait until the 28th? EDIT: never mind. i just read jazmen's first post.

[Rickypt]

I just read Chaps 1-6 on the plane. Great book but makes me uncomfortable.

[skcin]

^ Too real? Or just the fact that it's all about death & the afterlife?

[Rickypt]

^^Let's wait for the discussion. :woohoo:

Edit: it's a great read, though. I haven't read so many pages nonstop in ages.

[GODDESS6]

i'm buying a copy tonite, i'll read the chapters over the weekend~ the lady at border's said it was a great book~

[GODDESS6]

i finally got my copy, border's had it in hard back in their bargin bin for 6.00~ i read the 1st 5 & can't wait for the discussion!!!~

[skcin]

Bumping this thread up for tomorrow's discussion. :D

[Rickypt]

Can't wait! I purposefully slowed down reading so I could discuss the appropriate chapters.

[GODDESS6]

I got the first 5 chapters re-read last night. I don't know how you guys run this discussion...but I am happy you're going to let me be a part of it. (You are, aren't you? LOL)

Did anyone have a problem with the main character's name.... Susie Salmon?

salmon is a bit funny i thought too~ i love her little brothers name buckley tho~

[JazmenFlowers]

ok. this book has been an easy read for sure. it hasn't quite captivated me the way I expected it to, but it's very good. I love the way the author writes, but I find myself getting lost in the narrative sometimes. like when she goes from talking about her heaven (which, by the way, irks me that she always refers to it as my heaven...I'd like to see a little variation) to talking about her family to talking about the kids at school. sometimes, I get lost and have to back up. I don't like the name "Salmon" at all, but I'm hoping it plays a part later.

[skcin]

How dare you try to join our very private book discussion, Betsy! You have some nerve lady. :mad:


:lol: Of course you're welcome to join us! This is the first time we've done anything like this, so it's new to all of us.

I guess your question about her name can get us started. The answer to your question is yes! I was like "Salmon? Really? Why not Trout or Bass then?" I typically don't love double initials either, so yeah, it bugs me a bit. And Susie - I guess it was still a somewhat common name in the 70's when the novel takes place, but still. Perhaps the author wanted to imply that she was very normal, very plain, a "regular" girl. Ann or Jane probably could have worked too. But then, there aren't good fish names to go with those names. :laugh: I guess she didn't want to use a really exotic name. Like Paula. :rolleyes:

Plus, it's a good name to allude to her age & mindset with - her comment that she wanted to go by Susan next year in high school - the fact that Susie was still being used lets us know how innocent & childish she still was in some aspects of her life, still a kid in many ways.

It's obvious that at 14, she was still very naive. Also, very trustful & respectful (and a bit afraid?) of her elders, which I think had much to do with the reason why she went with Mr. Harvey. It's like she didn't want to offend him, or seem disrespectful.

I love the idea of "my heaven." And the fact that everyone's is different, but they can overlap/ fit together. I'm struck by the fact that she hasn't seen any family members who've already passed. Maybe she will later in the book. Love that you can deciede how it looks, how it smells, etc.

The writing really gets to me. "Mr. Harvey wore his innocence like a comfortable old coat." Her mother bracing herself to hear "inconsequential details that others investing meaning in." (So what? So you found her book? That doesn't mean anything!) There was a riot inside My. Harevy, but it is calm. Very descriptive (a piss poor word, I know, but it's all I can think of. I really need a thesaurus.)

[Rickypt]

I found a pretty big error in the book, but I forgot to bring it with me today to point it out. :rolleyes: I'll describe it tomorrow.

I'm really enjoying the book. I am troubled by the "heaven" Susie is in. Like Paula, I thought she'd be reunited with deceased family members. That is the "other side" that I'm hoping exists if there is one. Instead, she has an "intake counselor" (which means that we have jobs when we die, yuck). I also don't know what I think about the fact that she's so focused on what happened to her and wanting Harvey to be caught. I'd like to believe that the minute our soul leaves the body, we really don't care about such things. Perhaps we'll find later in the book that she does let go.

I'm particularly intrigued by Ruth and how she fits in with all of this.

Finally, I wonder if the story would be more interesting if we didn't know right off that bat who committed the crime, and that it was more of a murder mystery narrated by Susie. I can't decided--what do others think?

[GODDESS6]

so far i am loving it & had to restrain myself from going further than chapter 5~ i was uncomfortable w/ the subject matter of how susie died, maybe because a friend of mine's daughter was killed in a similar fashion in real life sans the hole, it was so real for me & that was sad~ i got teary eyed when susie's father was trying to explain to her little brother buckley that she was dead~ i too wondering about "susie's heaven", why there were no one from her family to greet her when she passes~ the intake person fanny reminded me of the lady helping the couple realize they were dead in "beetlejuice", i'm sorry, but she was the 1st person i thought of:laugh:~ i do love how the writer writes, i like her description of things, i like a book that you can imagine it playing like a film in your head~

[JazmenFlowers]

Finally, I wonder if the story would be more interesting if we didn't know right off that bat who committed the crime, and that it was more of a murder mystery narrated by Susie. I can't decided--what do others think?
honestly, this is the main motivating factor for me to read the book. I'm like you...I think there was too much told at the beginning. I could change my mind a few chapters from now though.

[skcin]

I'm really enjoying the book. I am troubled by the "heaven" Susie is in. Like Paula, I thought she'd be reunited with deceased family members. That is the "other side" that I'm hoping exists if there is one. Instead, she has an "intake counselor" (which means that we have jobs when we die, yuck). I also don't know what I think about the fact that she's so focused on what happened to her and wanting Harvey to be caught. I'd like to believe that the minute our soul leaves the body, we really don't care about such things. Perhaps we'll find later in the book that she does let go.

I'm particularly intrigued by Ruth and how she fits in with all of this.

Finally, I wonder if the story would be more interesting if we didn't know right off that bat who committed the crime, and that it was more of a murder mystery narrated by Susie. I can't decided--what do others think?

1 - Wondering if it's another nod to her age - perhaps if she had been killed when she were older, she would be more at peace? Or, because it was a violent death & her family is in so much pain, she just can't let it go yet?

so far i am loving it & had to restrain myself from going further than chapter 5~ i was uncomfartable w/ the subject matter of how susie died, maybe because a friend of mine's daughter was killed in a similar fashion in real life sans the hole, it was so real for me & that was sad~ i got teary eyed when susie's father was trying to explain to her little brother buckley that she was dead~ i too wondering about "susie's heaven", why there were no one from her family to greet her when she passes~ the intake person fanny reminded me of the lady helping the couple realize they were dead in "beetlejuice", i'm sorry, but she was the 1st person i thought of:laugh:~ i do love how the writer writes, i like her description of things, i like a book that you can imagine it playing like a film in your head~

That's awful. :distress:

honestly, this is the main motivating factor for me to read the book. I'm like you...I think there was too much told at the beginning. I could change my mind a few chapters from now though.


I know what you guys mean, but I think the author may have done it this way on purpose - to make sure it did not feel like a "murder mystery", but more of a dramatic fiction work. Plus, to tell us who did it so soon is more unexpected, don't you think?

[GODDESS6]

I know what you guys mean, but I think the author may have done it this way on purpose - to make sure it did not feel like a "murder mystery", but more of a dramatic fiction work. Plus, to tell us who did it so soon is more unexpected, don't you think?

i do agree with that~ knowing who did it didn't bother me as much as her saying that a new familly now lived in his home, also mentioning the blood stain on the garage floor, the realtor thinking it was grease, & that she wasn't his 1st~
him having moved makes me wonder if & how are they gonna catch him?~

[JazmenFlowers]

I know what you guys mean, but I think the author may have done it this way on purpose - to make sure it did not feel like a "murder mystery", but more of a dramatic fiction work. Plus, to tell us who did it so soon is more unexpected, don't you think?
no, I think you're right. it is interesting to have a sort of omnipotent POV...and to see things from varying angles. I just think she's going to have to really work to keep me into the book without me going :rolleyes: every few pages. there are only so many snowy nights, Xmas mornings and fluffy first kisses I can stand, ya know?

[danax6]

I found a pretty big error in the book, but I forgot to bring it with me today to point it out. :rolleyes: I'll describe it tomorrow.

I'm really enjoying the book. I am troubled by the "heaven" Susie is in. Like Paula, I thought she'd be reunited with deceased family members. That is the "other side" that I'm hoping exists if there is one.I wondered about that also, but I really think that's going to change, because right now it seems like she is focusing on the people she left behind on earth. We've had plenty of talk about that, but little time has been spent in her 'heaven'.

Instead, she has an "intake counselor" (which means that we have jobs when we die, yuck).Well, isn't one of the main perks of heaven that people can all choose what, where, when and how they do things? I got the impression this lady wanted to be that person. Some people do love their jobs. ;)

I also don't know what I think about the fact that she's so focused on what happened to her and wanting Harvey to be caught. I'd like to believe that the minute our soul leaves the body, we really don't care about such things. Perhaps we'll find later in the book that she does let go.I don't know. Wouldn't it be logical for people to want closure? Or at least have closure for the people they leave behind? I don't think you suddenly become this little selfish person who doesn't care anymore what goes around on earth. Isn't that also why ghosts stick around, because they have unfinished business to take care of?

Finally, I wonder if the story would be more interesting if we didn't know right off that bat who committed the crime, and that it was more of a murder mystery narrated by Susie. I can't decided--what do others think?Exactly what I thought also. A few chapters in and we already know everything that happened and how it affected her family. I wonder what we'll get faced with throughout the rest of this book. But I am just a sucker for mystery, so I would have loved to solve that puzzle.

[jannieC]

I'm having a hard time deciding how to respond in this thread, because I have read the whole book. I may need to NOT post until we're all done because I don't want to give anything away.



It's obvious that at 14, she was still very naive. Also, very trustful & respectful (and a bit afraid?) of her elders, which I think had much to do with the reason why she went with Mr. Harvey. It's like she didn't want to offend him, or seem disrespectful.



I love how the author chose this particular age for Susie's death. She is right on the edge of maturing and changing and she isn't given the chance to do that on earth.

I also enjoyed the idea of creating our own heaven. I will say that I was somewhat disappointed in some of Susie's heaven choices, but I had to remember that she is only 14 and her heaven would have to be based on her own experiences.

[GypsySorcerer]

I read the book a few years ago, and am just going to intersperse some comments here and there when they're relevant. I promise not to give anything away. :)

I liked Sebold's concept of the "personal heaven." I think at Susie's young age of 14, she may not have had too many relatives to reunite with in heaven. If I would have passed at 14, my parents and all four of my grandparents would have still been living.

[JazmenFlowers]

On an unrelated note, there was a PEOPLE magazine article about Alice Siebold and either she had been molested or something heinous had happened to her. I can't remember what. The article appeared about six months to a year after the book had been published. I often wonder, how influenced authors are by personal experiences.
she was attacked, beaten and raped in a park when she was 18.

I can't speak for all, but as a writer you can't not be influenced by personal experience. everything I've ever written, however full of the fantastic, has been plucked from either my reality or someone very close to me.

[jannieC]

she was attacked, beaten and raped in a park when she was 18.

I can't speak for all, but as a writer you can't not be influenced by personal experience. everything I've ever written, however full of the fantastic, has been plucked from either my reality or someone very close to me.

I haven't read it, but <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Lucky-Alice-Sebold/dp/033041836X/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-1832177-1004031?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188336916&sr=8-2">this</a> book is a memoir regarding her attack/rape.

[Rickypt]

I don't know. Wouldn't it be logical for people to want closure? Or at least have closure for the people they leave behind? I don't think you suddenly become this little selfish person who doesn't care anymore what goes around on earth. Isn't that also why ghosts stick around, because they have unfinished business to take care of?

All true. And this does jive with my personal experiences (i.e., when someone close to me dies, I get signs from them for a little while and then they stop...meaning they stick around a bit to help the grieving and then at some point it's time for them to move on.

What worries me, though, is the concept that when the soul leaves the body, it can retain the same negative feelings that we experience in human form (regret, anger, desire for revenge, etc.) It's kind of frightening to think that I could go out right now, get killed by a drunk driver, and then spend a long time just hovering around earth worrying about my friends/family's reactions and whether or not the person will go to jail. Yet not able to speak or really do much more than blow some wind in someone's hair.

It's too hard to explain...but it makes me feel anxiety just thinking about it! I'd much rather have the experience that I go straight to the other side, become reunited with loved ones, and feel an overwhelming sense of peace, love, joy, etc.

[Rickypt]

^^I was going to ask you about your seminar. You should bump up your thread about it and tell us more! Did you get a reading?

[JazmenFlowers]

I had English professors in college poo poo the idea....stating that authors distance themselves. I totally disagreed (and maybe that's why I got B's instead of A's).
as someone with an English degree, I can tell you that they are notorious for doing that. I came home with a lot of B's as well because I wouldn't buy into it.
I haven't read it, but <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Lucky-Alice-Sebold/dp/033041836X/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-1832177-1004031?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188336916&sr=8-2">this</a> book is a memoir regarding her attack/rape.
I saw this on the back cover of The Lovely Bones. thanks!

[danax6]

All true. And this does jive with my personal experiences (i.e., when someone close to me dies, I get signs from them for a little while and then they stop...meaning they stick around a bit to help the grieving and then at some point it's time for them to move on.

What worries me, though, is the concept that when the soul leaves the body, it can retain the same negative feelings that we experience in human form (regret, anger, desire for revenge, etc.) It's kind of frightening to think that I could go out right now, get killed by a drunk driver, and then spend a long time just hovering around earth worrying about my friends/family's reactions and whether or not the person will go to jail. Yet not able to speak or really do much more than blow some wind in someone's hair.

It's too hard to explain...but it makes me feel anxiety just thinking about it! I'd much rather have the experience that I go straight to the other side, become reunited with loved ones, and feel an overwhelming sense of peace, love, joy, etc.I totally get where you're coming from and without me coming into this discussion with my personal feelings regarding the existence of Heaven I will go into this mainly focusing on the book.

To me it seems like Susie doesn't harbor many negative feelings, just a general concern for her family and their well-being. I don't think that's a negative feeling perse, it all is connected with peace and love. I don't think she's required to stick around and watch her family unfold, I think that she derives peace from watching out for her family. She is free to create her own Heaven, yet she chooses to stick around instead of keeping all the love, joy and peace to herself, which she could easily do. It might seem as an obligation, but I don't think it really is.

I thought that a good point got brought up earlier. Susie probably doesn't have many family members to turn to in Heaven because of her age. I am eleven years older than her and there would only be one person I would want to meet up with again should I go to Heaven.

[Rickypt]

Damn....I was gonna bring my book to work today and forgot it....again.

Question #1:
When the detectives discover the ski cap with the bells, they decide that it is proof positive that Susie is dead, right? They talked about it having saliva on it. Were those kinds of tests available back in 1973?

Question #2

What do you find interesting/suspenseful about the book so far?

(Or do you find it lame and don't want to finish it?)

Answer #1: I don't think they ran any tests on the cap. I think they just noticed that it had lots of saliva on it and deduced that meant it had been shoved in her mouth. I'm not sure they said it was proof positive, but I have to go back and check. These days, of course, they would test the saliva to determine whose it was.

Answer #2: I am very interested in Ruth's character and I'm also curious to know if Mr. Harvey ever gets caught, or if Susie winds up "moving on" without everything getting resolved. I am now another 4 or 5 chapters into the story and it is starting to drag a bit. I feel like the book opened with a BANG and then stalls. Still, it's an enjoyable read.

[Rickypt]

I found a pretty big error in the book. On page 61 (paperback version), Susie's father tell the detective why he is suspicious of Mr. Harvey. One of the reasons he gives is that Harvey said Susie's name to him when they were building the tent together (pages 54-57). I've reread and reread that section, and Harvey never once mentions Susie's name.

Not a big deal, but kind of sloppy.

[JazmenFlowers]

I found a pretty big error in the book. On page 61 (paperback version), Susie's father tell the detective why he is suspicious of Mr. Harvey. One of the reasons he gives is that Harvey said Susie's name to him when they were building the tent together (pages 54-57). I've reread and reread that section, and Harvey never once mentions Susie's name.

Not a big deal, but kind of sloppy.
are you talking about at the bottom of page 61 ("about saying my name")? I took that to mean when Susie's father says her name and it made Mr. Harvey uncomfortable. I could have read that wrong though.

[Rickypt]

are you talking about at the bottom of page 61 ("about saying my name")? I took that to mean when Susie's father says her name and it made Mr. Harvey uncomfortable. I could have read that wrong though.

OH!

You're right. The father said her name and that's when Harvey said he should go. My bad. :o

[JazmenFlowers]

OH!

You're right. The father said her name and that's when Harvey said he should go. My bad. :o
no worries. like I said in my original post, I find myself getting really lost sometimes too and have to back up to figure out...ok, am I in heaven, the sinkhole or the house? :lol:

[Rickypt]

no worries. like I said in my original post, I find myself getting really lost sometimes too and have to back up to figure out...ok, am I in heaven, the sinkhole or the house? :lol:

I wonder....do you think when we're in heaven, we're just going to be sitting around posting on the Ledge?

[danax6]

I wonder....do you think when we're in heaven, we're just going to be sitting around posting on the Ledge?Well, if there is to be no anger and hatred in Heaven, I'd say NO. :laugh:

[skcin]

I'm having a hard time deciding how to respond in this thread, because I have read the whole book. I may need to NOT post until we're all done because I don't want to give anything away.


I had read it too, when it first came out. I'm finding that I had forgotten much of it - parts are familiar. I'm rereading & jotting things down on a piece of paper that notes the chapter range - that way if I get ahead, I won't come here talking about chapter 8 too early.


I read the book a few years ago, and am just going to intersperse some comments here and there when they're relevant. I promise not to give anything away. :)

I liked Sebold's concept of the "personal heaven." I think at Susie's young age of 14, she may not have had too many relatives to reunite with in heaven. If I would have passed at 14, my parents and all four of my grandparents would have still been living.


My grandparents were all dead. I know what you mean though. My husband's grandparents were all alive until he was 30.

Very interesting comments....

First of all, I hated the last name Salmon....why? Because I have seen, read and heard about too many prison stories..."fresh fish" ...and I made that sort of connection.....Harvey was the predator and Susie was his fish.

Second, I like that Susie is telling the story...that the author took this form of narration. At the same time, the voice changes...the story is supposed to be told by this 14 year old girl (or is she 15?). Then Susie makes observations which at 15, this kid could never have experienced...Sebold is making the observation, not Susie.

The first time was when Mr. Harvey was making Susie kiss him....there is a comment about the kiss ~ and I will have to look it up to make my point ~ but the conflicting comparisons are ones that innocent Susie, no matter how much TV, she had seen, could not have made.



1 - Interesting. You have a good theory.

2 - I'm wondering if she's gained....don't know the right word here...knowledge? maturity? in heaven so that as she's looking back, she can better describe what she felt at the time. :shrug:

All true. And this does jive with my personal experiences (i.e., when someone close to me dies, I get signs from them for a little while and then they stop...meaning they stick around a bit to help the grieving and then at some point it's time for them to move on.

What worries me, though, is the concept that when the soul leaves the body, it can retain the same negative feelings that we experience in human form (regret, anger, desire for revenge, etc.) It's kind of frightening to think that I could go out right now, get killed by a drunk driver, and then spend a long time just hovering around earth worrying about my friends/family's reactions and whether or not the person will go to jail. Yet not able to speak or really do much more than blow some wind in someone's hair.

It's too hard to explain...but it makes me feel anxiety just thinking about it! I'd much rather have the experience that I go straight to the other side, become reunited with loved ones, and feel an overwhelming sense of peace, love, joy, etc.


Susie doesn't seem all that angry to me. Confused, worried about her family, but not angry.

And don't be anxious, dear Ryan. It's just a book.

[Rickypt]

^^Yeah, I didn't mean that I thought Susie was angry, I was just using anger as an example of an emotion that I hope we don't carry with us too long to the other side (if the other side exists, of course). I do think she is still very firmly engaged with the physical world and not yet moved on. I am curious to see if she is able to let it all go by the end of the book.

You're right, it's just a book, but it's a subject that I've been really engrossed with for several years so it's bringing up a lot of stuff for me. I'm finding it difficult to detach and just enjoy it as a piece of fiction.

[JazmenFlowers]

yeah, let's try to have Chapters 5-10 wrapped up by September 7.

[Rickypt]

I'll probably finish the book over the weekend. Hopefully it picks up so we have stuff to talk about!!

I am enjoying the book, but it is certainly sagging in the middle.

[JazmenFlowers]

I'll probably finish the book over the weekend. Hopefully it picks up so we have stuff to talk about!!

I am enjoying the book, but it is certainly sagging in the middle.
where are you? I'm in the middle of Chapter 7 and it's really slow.

[Rickypt]

I'm almost done with Chap. 11. You've got a few more boring chaps to go! :laugh:

[JazmenFlowers]

I'm almost done with Chap. 11. You've got a few more boring chaps to go! :laugh:
:eek:

that many?! good lawd.

oh, and I lol'd at "chaps" -

[camchristo]

I read this a long time ago. I went to get it to refresh my memory today so I could participate in the discussion and I can't find it. I must have lent it to someone who never returned it. I will see if I can get it at the library. If not, I will participate at the end and then hop on the next book.

[trackaghost]

I need to contribute something, as I'm reading this too and really enjoying it.
Even though we do know who the killer is, I think there is still an element of mystery, because we don't know if he's going to be uncovered or if Susie's father will get revenge or if he'll simply get away with it. I'm quite gripped in that respect.

In regards to the personal heaven thing, at the moment I do feel like Susie's heaven is more a limbo, because she can't move on from the people she's left behind or her murder. I'm hoping that's what it is, because her heaven seems quite dull otherwise, all dogs, gazebos and watching people on earth like it's an episode of Big Brother.

[skcin]

^ I agree on all counts, Sharona.

I'll def. be ready by the 7th, I just finished chapter 9. BTW - I'll be paying to replace this library book - Bubba tried to eat it. :rolleyes: He's going through a "how dare you leave me at home alone I'm going to chew paper products" phase again. I wish he's just eat the newspaper, which is laying on the floor under a table. But no, he has to grab books off of tables. God love him.

[Rickypt]

^^Awww.....

[GODDESS6]

i finished it this weekend & loved it~ it'll be 1 of those books i keep & reread sometime~ can't wait to discuss it further~

[GODDESS6]

Ok, I have read further ...

1. What is meant by a sink hole? It's an old caved in mine shaft? or what? (The Simpsons Movie referred to a sink hole in their backyard...what is a sink hole? Can someone explain it to my sorry ass?)

2. I have gotten to the part where the mother character has checked out and has had an affair with the detective....do you think this is believable? Her character sure is shallow...is this to portray how she deals with grief?

3. Who the heck is Arte? (I am listening to the book on tape, since the library doesn't have an extra copy.) He is a member of this gifted symposium thing...at first I thought he was Arte Singh, but it's Ray Singh....

4. What did you think of Mr. Harvey's wife's name? And the revelations?

5. Any thoughts on comparing the subject matter to today's world and obductions? Like the criminal mind....can anyone shed any light?

I come from a small town in Nebraska that has a fall carnival...aboaut 20 years or so ago a "carnie" kidnapped and killed a small boy (aged 10) and it was a shock...I wonder if anyone reads detective mag's that refer to the ciminal minds and how they work (or don't work) etc.

(OK, so this is my feeble attempt to revive this thread...)

omaha here!!!~ where in neb are you from?, i remember the carnie thing & do you remember john joubert the child killer, i live right by offutt airforce base where he was from~

sinkhole i'm not quite sure what that is either~

the mom seems real shallow, it makes me sad how she treats her husband, like he is insignificant~
i have to go get my book, to go further, i marked off where we were to read to, but then i went ahead & read the rest of the book~

[skcin]

BETSY - can you please put a spoiler warning in your recent posts for memebers who haven't read that far ahead yet? :wavey: Thanks.

I'll be finishing up chapter 10 tonight (I've been holding back so I don't get too far ahead & I can discuss things and not get mixed up) and will try to post tomorrow.

[JazmenFlowers]

I've been bad...I've been so busy that I've not really read much further...sorry guys.

I'll try to catch up.

I miss Ryan. :(

[trackaghost]

I actually finished the book last week. I enjoyed it but I was a little disappointed too. I won't go into that here since most haven't finished it.




2. I have gotten to the part where the mother character has checked out and has had an affair with the detective....do you think this is believable? Her character sure is shallow...is this to portray how she deals with grief?


I thought she was trying to forget who she was. She had given up her dreams and her whole life had turned into being a mother and looking after her kids. When one of her children is taken from her, she doesn't know who she is anymore. The fact she couldn't protect her child I guess puts into question her role as a mother. Even though the way she dealt with her grief was selfish, I could understand it and have empathy with her, and I think Susie did too.

[GODDESS6]

I actually finished the book last week. I enjoyed it but I was a little disappointed too. I won't go into that here since most haven't finished it.





I thought she was trying to forget who she was. She had given up her dreams and her whole life had turned into being a mother and looking after her kids. When one of her children is taken from her, she doesn't know who she is anymore. The fact she couldn't protect her child I guess puts into question her role as a mother. Even though the way she dealt with her grief was selfish, I could understand it and have empathy with her, and I think Susie did too.

very well put~ that is how i was thinking too~

[trackaghost]

Now back to the Book....

1. As for Mr. Harvey -- Did his dad drag his mom behind the car and kill her? The mom hands the necklace through the window to Little George, ~~~~who is in the backseat? (I am listening to a tape and it is hard to rewind and find the right spot for review.)

2. George kept his mom's necklace....among his other *treasures* from his victims. Mom seemed to be a gypsy-like character. Why does the Sebold go into George Harvey's life and background...does she do this to make him more human and make us think that there was some sort of break, which made him abnormal???

3. I kept wondering why all the space on him....the thievery of his mom .... using him as an accomplice...the alienation between mother & son and the dad....the men trying to lure his mom out of the truck and then she puts the truck into gear and runs over him...etc. etc. Is she an evil character or are both his parents evil ~~~ because dad ultimately kills the mom?

4. The book alludes to Buckley being able to see/interact with Susie...yet, Susie, as the narrator, never mentions it. Do you think he really sees her?

(Yes, there are some hoaky parts to the book, but some intriguing parts. I wasn't gonna stick with it, but I am glad I did. I am only up to Chapter 17...and have forgotten a lot of this detail from when I first read it.)

1. My impression was that that George Harvey's dad killed his mother. His mother's necklace was in a way his first memento of a murder.


2. The whole book is about the consequences of death and murder, how one girl dying sets off a chain reaction and affects everybody around her for years to come. It changes everything. The same thing happens to George Harvey, but it affects him in a different way because, even though Susie's family are devastated, they still very much love each other. How George became a killer fits with the themes of the book. Also I think it helps Susie understand her death and eventually move on into her own real version of heaven.


3. I think both parents explain his misogyny. His mother is an awful woman who presses him into doing criminal things and only shows affection when he is going against society. His father is abusive and gets rid of the problem by killing her.
There's actually quite a bit about the relationship between mothers and daughters. There's Abigail and Grandma Lynn, who have a very cold relationship, and that in turn affects how Abigail deals with her own daughters. Even Ray Singh, whose mother is the main parental figure in his life, is quite a cold and hard woman, even though she obviously loves and protects her son.


4. *SPOILER*


Later on in the book Susie says that she did talk to Buckley and he answered back. I'm not sure why those scenes weren't described or why we are made to doubt if Buckley is telling the truth though.

[Betsy]

BETSY - can you please put a spoiler warning in your recent posts for memebers who haven't read that far ahead yet? :wavey: Thanks.

I'll be finishing up chapter 10 tonight (I've been holding back so I don't get too far ahead & I can discuss things and not get mixed up) and will try to post tomorrow.

===============================================

I am sorry. :sorry:

[skcin]

===============================================

I am sorry. :sorry:

No big deal. I figured you didn't know, so I thought I'd mention it. :xoxo:

[Betsy]

Did everyone lose interest in this book?

Can we say that by Oct 1 .... everyone has it finished? (Mine is due back to the library by then.)

[GODDESS6]

Did everyone lose interest in this book?

Can we say that by Oct 1 .... everyone has it finished? (Mine is due back to the library by then.)

i didn't, but it seems everyone else has:shrug:~

[jannieC]

Did everyone lose interest in this book?

Can we say that by Oct 1 .... everyone has it finished? (Mine is due back to the library by then.)

I'm still interested in talking about it- I was just waiting until everyone had finished with it.

[trackaghost]

I got bored waiting for everyone to finish it. I read a couple of books since this one, so it's not quite so fresh in my mind anymore.

[DrummerDeanna]

I finished it - was waiting for others to do so as well - I've got a few opinions on the book - but didn't want to jump too far ahead of anyone.

[skcin]

I've been slacking. Meant to read it some while camping, but HFAW wouldn't leave me the hell alone, so I couldn't. I'll try to have it done by this weekend.

[Betsy]

I am going to post some thoughts about the book on Monday...but...I will say SPOILER....

I wanna talk about some stuff....and maybe it will jog the memory of those of you who have finished it.

BUT UNTIL THEN....

Anybody got a book to recommend to me? I gotta drive the 12 hours to and from Omaha, Nebraska this weekend....and a good book would keep my thoughts off of hating the semi trucks who take FOREVER to pass another semi.....

[jannieC]

I am going to post some thoughts about the book on Monday...but...I will say SPOILER....

I wanna talk about some stuff....and maybe it will jog the memory of those of you who have finished it.

BUT UNTIL THEN....

Anybody got a book to recommend to me? I gotta drive the 12 hours to and from Omaha, Nebraska this weekend....and a good book would keep my thoughts off of hating the semi trucks who take FOREVER to pass another semi.....

God, I wish I could read on roadtrips. No way though- nausea. Anyway, here are a couple of books I have read and loved:

A Prayer for Owen Meany
The Time Traveler's Wife
The Prince of Tides

I can't think of any others right now (brainfart).

[Betsy]

God, I wish I could read on roadtrips. No way though- nausea. Anyway, here are a couple of books I have read and loved:

A Prayer for Owen Meany
The Time Traveler's Wife
The Prince of Tides

I can't think of any others right now (brainfart).

Thanks for the suggestions....whenever possible I get the books on tape and then if there's another driver, I get the book. (I don't get sick unless it's a windy road.) Nebraska is generally a flat and straight ride.

As for the PRINCE OF TIDES -- whoa -- read that one. Wasn't that the one with Callanwolde ? or something like that word, which kept coming up...THEN we find out what that reference is.... Good book, though.

Did anyone read PEACE LIKE A RIVER? Or have any thoughts on it?

[Betsy]

**********SPOILER**************
**********SPOILER**************
**********SPOILER**************
**********SPOILER**************

A little nudge to get this thread to a conclusion...

What did you think when the dog died?

Were you surprised?

And do you think the author handled it in a interesting way in how she told us the news?

[JazmenFlowers]

I'm sorry I've been such a bad host, but I totally lost interest in this book.

[Sarah]

God, I wish I could read on roadtrips. No way though- nausea. Anyway, here are a couple of books I have read and loved:

A Prayer for Owen Meany


Absolutely one of my all-time favorites. It is incredibly well-written, beginning to end.

[jannieC]

Absolutely one of my all-time favorites. It is incredibly well-written, beginning to end.

I felt the same way- it really is a perfect book. :nod: