Vick to plead quilty to dogfighting charges!

[JWS]

After pleaing innocence for a months, Michael Vick now will plead guilty for running a vicious dog fighting ring that resulted in the deaths of scores of pit bulls. Vick's NFL career could be over. This whole thing is sick.



RICHMOND, Va. - Michael Vick agreed Monday to plead guilty to federal dogfighting conspiracy charges, a deal that leaves the Atlanta Falcons quarterback facing up to 18 months in prison and puts his NFL career in jeopardy.

Under the plea agreement, prosecutors will recommend Vick be sentenced to between a year and 18 months in prison, according to a government official who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because the terms have not yet been made final.

That would be a higher penalty than is usually recommended for first-time convicts, and reflects an attempt by the government to show that animal abusers will receive more than a slap on the wrist for their crimes, the official said.

The offense is punishable by up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine.

U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson will have the final say on how much time Vick will ultimately spend in jail.

Vick’s plea hearing is Aug. 27.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20350573/

[Rickypt]

5 years is not nearly long enough.

[MacMan]

5 years is not nearly long enough.

I agree... I couldn't even watch or read anything about all what went on.. Truly disturbed people they are!!

[gldstwmn]

He should be thrown out of the league.

[michelle2677]

5 years is not nearly long enough.

it would be if they did to him what he had done to those dogs.



actually that thought makes me smile just a little bit.

[JWS]

Michael Vick put his hands on dogs necks and drown them after they had survived a hanging. He is worse than scum. Killing innoncent dogs is sick. Some people say we should forgive and forget...let him back into the NFL after he gets out of prison. Imo, he should be taken to a wall and .....:mad:

[Sarah]

He should be thrown out of the league.

He should be slathered in blood and meat and thrown into a dark den of wolves.

I actually legitimately have hate in my heart for the filthy-ass son of a bitch, and I hope that when he dies, his version of hell is being torn apart by dogs - limb by limb, over and over all day, every day - for all eternity. :mad::mad::mad:

[buckymcnix]

. - Michael Vick agreed {splice} a deal that leaves the Atlanta Falcons quarterback facing up to 18 months in prison and puts his NFL career in jeopardy.

Under the plea agreement, prosecutors will recommend Vick be sentenced to between a year and 18 months in prison, according to a government official who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because the terms have not yet been made final.


The offense is punishable by up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine.



i totally agree with you guys that 5 years isn't long enough, but the way i read it, he isn't facing anything close to that.
maybe a year?
18 months?

maybe if it were per offense :mad:

how many dogs did he do this to? do we know?
dare i ask?

i am afraid to ask if he has kids.

[JazmenFlowers]

he's sick. I only wish that he one day realizes and feels the pain, confusion and agony those poor, helpless dogs felt.

[Raeven Skye]

i totally agree with you guys that 5 years isn't long enough, but the way i read it, he isn't facing anything close to that.
maybe a year?
18 months?

maybe if it were per offense :mad:

how many dogs did he do this to? do we know?
dare i ask?

i am afraid to ask if he has kids.

His co-defendants say he helped murder 8 dogs. I'm so incensed by it, I can't form rational thoughts. Down South, people are already throwing around the "race" card, too. This makes me insane!

[GODDESS6]

this just makes me want to vomit~ recently where i live we have had alot of this dog fighting going on & the humane society & police keep uping the reward for any information~ i just can't imagine anyone ever doing this, it is mortifying~

[kathy1]

i agree that he is sick. i don't know how anyone could do that to animals. i am a member of the humane society and the aspca.

[JWS]

i agree that he is sick. i don't know how anyone could do that to animals. i am a member of the humane society and the aspca.


Kathy, the hanging, drowning and electrocuting of dogs is beyond belief. That this could happen in the US and by a big-time athlete... It's also about the LIE. Just weeks ago Michael Vick proclaimed innocence of the charges...he just owned the property...never went there...didn't know what was going on...was sorry for what happened, but he didn't know. Now we find out he was the ring leader...personally killed underperforming dogs. The whole country is so outraged by this. :mad:

[buckymcnix]

His co-defendants say he helped murder 8 dogs. I'm so incensed by it, I can't form rational thoughts. Down South, people are already throwing around the "race" card, too. This makes me insane!


what do you mean "throwing around the race card"?

how so?

[kathy1]

i hope that he gets put away for a long time. i also think that his career is over.

[JWS]

i hope that he gets put away for a long time. i also think that his career is over.

I think you're right. In the newspaper today it said this the biggest fall ever in American sports. Mike Tyson went to prison, but boxing is a thug sport anyway. A NFL star QB goes down for mistreating dogs?!?! Vick would be better off if he killed somebody in a bar fight...then at least you could rationalize it and find some excuse. Not this.

[Raeven Skye]

what do you mean "throwing around the race card"?

how so?

there are a lot of african-americans here (NC) that say Vick is being "picked on" b/c he's african-american. i'm honestly, surprised, that so many people are not at all offended by what he did, but are more offended b/c they think it's a racial issue.

[Sarah]

Everything is a racial issue if you define yourself by your race only. And there are a lot of people who do. Just like there are a lot of people who define themselves only by the fact that they're gay. Or Christian. Or Atheist. Or anything else, really. Simple minds latch on to one subject and can't see or comprehend anything else about a given situation.

[Raeven Skye]

Everything is a racial issue if you define yourself by your race only. And there are a lot of people who do. Just like there are a lot of people who define themselves only by the fact that they're gay. Or Christian. Or Atheist. Or anything else, really. Simple minds latch on to one subject and can't see or comprehend anything else about a given situation.

plus the concept that there is nothing wrong with dog fighting...their family members do it...big deal?
that's the most shocking part....that there are people of all walks who think his actions were ok, and are being blown out of proportion. that's truly frightening to me!

[Sarah]

plus the concept that there is nothing wrong with dog fighting...their family members do it...big deal?
that's the most shocking part....that there are people of all walks who think his actions were ok, and are being blown out of proportion. that's truly frightening to me!

Mhm. Humans are pretty vile.

[JWS]

there are a lot of african-americans here (NC) that say Vick is being "picked on" b/c he's african-american. i'm honestly, surprised, that so many people are not at all offended by what he did, but are more offended b/c they think it's a racial issue.

I think that was the case early on when the story first broke. Now that the allegations are proving to be true, even worse than first thought with the dog executions, Vick pleading guilty...the black support is gone. This was not an isolated incident where Vick attended a dog fight one time. He financed/organized this operation for five years. It's a shame for such a gifted athlete to go down like this....and even now I don't think he gets it.

[JWS]

And finally, this kinda says it all. A selected response from a MSNBC viewer.

"Vick is pure evil. Let's review the character of this disgrace to the human race: They were hung from trees in the woods behind Michael Vick's house, eight dogs left there to die, kicking and screaming. The pit bulls had made the mistake of failing the test. They weren't mean enough, quick enough, strong enough in the ring, so they were of no more use to Vick's Bad Newz dogfighting operation. Imagine, killing a dog because it's just too nice. Five of the dogs finally kicked their last breaths away as the ropes cut deeper and deeper into their throats. Three somehow clung to life. Vick and two of his henchmen, growing impatient, cut those three down and one by one shoved their heads into five-gallon buckets filled with water, drowning them to finish them off. Vick should be forever shunned by every man, woman, child and company with a conscience. Lifetime ban from the NFL. Good riddance."--Den, Chicago

[Sarah]

And finally, this kinda says it all. A selected response from a MSNBC viewer.

"Vick is pure evil. Let's review the character of this disgrace to the human race: They were hung from trees in the woods behind Michael Vick's house, eight dogs left there to die, kicking and screaming. The pit bulls had made the mistake of failing the test. They weren't mean enough, quick enough, strong enough in the ring, so they were of no more use to Vick's Bad Newz dogfighting operation. Imagine, killing a dog because it's just too nice. Five of the dogs finally kicked their last breaths away as the ropes cut deeper and deeper into their throats. Three somehow clung to life. Vick and two of his henchmen, growing impatient, cut those three down and one by one shoved their heads into five-gallon buckets filled with water, drowning them to finish them off. Vick should be forever shunned by every man, woman, child and company with a conscience. Lifetime ban from the NFL. Good riddance."--Den, Chicago

Oh, irate. It makes me absolutely irate. I'd like to rip his balls out through his mouth. Can I say that here? :mad:

[Raeven Skye]

Oh, irate. It makes me absolutely irate. I'd like to rip his balls out through his mouth. Can I say that here? :mad:

oh I think so! The details make me physically ill. I just cannot wrap my brain around this behavior.

And JWS, I spoke to a young woman just Friday night (someone who is working on a Doctoral degree), and she was of the opinion that Vick was being wrongly persecuted...her family did this all the time....no biggie....Someone with THIS mentality will go into a job making medical policies, or governmental or Justice policies, b/c that is what she is studying! She saw absolutely nothing wrong with any of it. Maybe people's opinions are starting to turn, but her certainly wasn't.
I can't imagine how anyone can stand behind him, at this point!

[Sarah]

oh I think so! The details make me physically ill. I just cannot wrap my brain around this behavior.

And JWS, I spoke to a young woman just Friday night (someone who is working on a Doctoral degree), and she was of the opinion that Vick was being wrongly persecuted...her family did this all the time....no biggie....Someone with THIS mentality will go into a job making medical policies, or governmental or Justice policies, b/c that is what she is studying! She saw absolutely nothing wrong with any of it. Maybe people's opinions are starting to turn, but her certainly wasn't.
I can't imagine how anyone can stand behind him, at this point!

There is zero justification for this. I call BS on the argument that it's a cultural difference. It's barbaric.

A friend of mine was trying to rationalize the whole thing. His argument was, "well, if you grew up knowing nothing but dogfights and government cheese..." I really just had to laugh. I said, "If I grew up knowing nothing but dogfights and government cheese, as soon as I landed a multi-million dollar contract, I'd forget f-ing everything that I had known up to that point, I'm sorry."

These people take pleasure in the violence and suffering of other creatures. If they want bloody fights so much, they should get in there and bang their own retarded skulls together.

[JWS]

oh I think so! The details make me physically ill. I just cannot wrap my brain around this behavior.

And JWS, I spoke to a young woman just Friday night (someone who is working on a Doctoral degree), and she was of the opinion that Vick was being wrongly persecuted...her family did this all the time....no biggie....Someone with THIS mentality will go into a job making medical policies, or governmental or Justice policies, b/c that is what she is studying! She saw absolutely nothing wrong with any of it. Maybe people's opinions are starting to turn, but her certainly wasn't.
I can't imagine how anyone can stand behind him, at this point!

Raeven, I cannot understand how any educated person could condone what went on in this case. There were three crimes being systmatically carried out. Dogfighting, which is illegal in all 50 states and a felony in all but two (I think). Illegal gambling. Ane the worst, cruelty and inhumane treatment of animals.

As someone said on TV yesterday, in the eyes of public opinion, Vick would be better off had he killed somebody in bar brawl.

[Tarot]

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h180/zimmerman-101/th_MikeVick.jpg (http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h180/zimmerman-101/MikeVick.jpg)

[Raeven Skye]

Raeven, I cannot understand how any educated person could condone what went on in this case. There were three crimes being systmatically carried out. Dogfighting, which is illegal in all 50 states and a felony in all but two (I think). Illegal gambling. Ane the worst, cruelty and inhumane treatment of animals.

As someone said on TV yesterday, in the eyes of public opinion, Vick would be better off had he killed somebody in bar brawl.

I totally agree with that...and I can't understand it either. It's sad to know that someone with that kind of mentality is going to be creating policies that could potentially affect us all!

and Sarah: I agree 100%!

[michelle2677]

i liked the person who wrote in to MSNBC.

I think we should give him another shot in the NFL. The second he doesn't perfor properly, I say take his ass out and do the same thing he did to the dogs. it's only fair :shrug:

[Sarah]

straight off the AP wire:


Bulletin!

AP-Michael Vick URGENT

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) - Michael Vick has filed a plea agreement in federal court in Richmond, Virginia, admitting to a dogfighting charge.
In the filing, Vick also agreed the operation included the killing of fighting dogs and gambling.
The Atlanta Falcons quarterback is scheduled to formally enter his plea Monday in U.S. District Court.



http://www.freestuffpage.com/forums/images/smilies/puke.gif

i still hate him.

AP will have a full story later.

[michelle2677]

^^^ I love that that vomit smiley still has puke on his face when he is finished :shocked: :laugh:


and yes, i hate him too. I realize that i'll never meet him and it makes no difference in the grand scheme of things, but I have no tolerance for people who abuse animals. and for what he did-there is no punishment too great imo :o

[gldstwmn]

there are a lot of african-americans here (NC) that say Vick is being "picked on" b/c he's african-american. i'm honestly, surprised, that so many people are not at all offended by what he did, but are more offended b/c they think it's a racial issue.

The NAACP was on CNN the other night defending him. Said it was "cultural." I couldn't believe my ears.

[Sarah]

The NAACP was on CNN the other night defending him. Said it was "cultural." I couldn't believe my ears.

People that practice that "culture" need to be eradicated. Subterranean mutants.

And Michelle, as far as seeing him in person... I'd probably throw a can of gasoline on him and flick my bic. He's not worth a bullet.

[amber]

The NAACP was on CNN the other night defending him. Said it was "cultural." I couldn't believe my ears.

That is equivalent to saying murder is "cultural", which is of course absurd, just like the NAACP defense is. Just because a culture does it, doesn't make "cultural" a defense for the action.

In other news, a guy in my office just ordered a bunch of Michael Vick dog chew toys. :)

[Miss Vicky]

Is it wrong that I hope the A.L.F. torches this guy's house or worse? :shrug:

[gldstwmn]

NFL: Vick suspended indefinitely

No link yet, banner at top of CNN home page.

Edit:
NFL suspends 'reprehensible' Vick indefinitely
NEW YORK - NFL has suspended Michael Vick indefinitely.

The announcement came hours after the Atlanta quarterback filed a plea agreement in federal court in Richmond, Virginia. In that plea, Vick admitted to the charge of dogfighting. He denied ever betting on the fights.

In a letter sent to the Falcons quarterback, league commissioner Roger Goodell wrote, "Your admitted conduct was not only illegal, but also cruel and reprehensible. Your team, the NFL, and NFL fans have all been hurt by your actions."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20429109

[irishgrl]

one giant step for humanity, one big pratfall for "culture".

[JWS]

Vick is through with the NFL. He lost his 10 year $130 million contract. The Falcons are to go after a return of the signing bonus. Vick is the biggest moron and loser in the history of pro sports...and for nothing but dead dogs:(

[buckymcnix]

so let me start by saying -
I am a HUGE animal person. Huge.
i have a variety of animals.
I am by NO MEANS advocating this 'curltural' argument but i would care to discuss it more.

Cock fighting in Mexico. Cultural?
Beta fish fighting? Cultural?
Do you shoo a bug that lands on you or smash it ?

I have never known anyone who has been to or participated in dog fighting.
I think what vick did to those dogs is horrific at best and my knee jerk reaction resembles many of those expressed here, Sarah winning 'most colorful vengence' by far ;).
But honestly, if someone is exposed to that kind of behaviour, be it fish, roosters or dogs, then of course they don't feel it's wrong. How do we reach the people who this appeals to? How do you show someone who has already been desensitized to such violent behaviour how vile and wrong it is? I don't even have a suggestion on how to do it.

I was asked to go to cock fights in mexico and i wouldn't. I ate bugs but i wouldn't take part in the cock fights.
But i also couldn't get into an argument in a language i could barely speak about why i felt it was wrong.

anyone have thoughts on that?

[gldstwmn]

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/08/23/vickdad_0824.html?imw=Y

Vick deeply into dogfighting, father says
QB's dad says he didn't abandon family

fights in the name of friends to avoid being implicated some day.

Michael Boddie, in two sometimes tearful interviews with The Atlanta Journal-Constitution this week, said some time around 2001 his son staged dogfights in the garage of the family's home in Newport News, Va. Boddie also said Vick kept fighting dogs in the family's backyard, including injured ones — "bit up, chewed up, exhausted" — that the father nursed back to health.

Boddie, who is estranged from his son, dismissed the idea that Vick's longtime friends were the main instigators of the dogfighting operation.

"I wish people would stop sugarcoating it," Boddie said. "This is Mike's thing. And he knows it."

He "likes it, and he has the capital to have a set up like that."

Daniel Meachum, an attorney for Vick, said his client never mentioned situations described by Boddie, nor discussed Boddie in relation to dog activities. "It's a disgrace Mr. Boddie, who chose for nearly 22 years not to be part of Mike's life, would at this time seek to capitalize on his son's current situation."

Vick's mother, Brenda Vick Boddie, who hasn't lived with her husband for the past five years, did not return calls seeking comment.

Boddie said he and the Atlanta Falcons quarterback have had a volatile relationship for years and that his son has refused to speak with him directly for the last 2 1/2 half months. Boddie said he is speaking out because he's been hurt by his son and wife's failure over the years to correct what he considers inaccurate media reports that Vick grew up without his father present.

"I've been drug through the mud," Boddie said.

He said he intends to write a damaging book about more of what he knows.

Boddie, 45, lives in a Duluth apartment that his son has paid the rent on for the last three years. Vick, who has a $130 million contract with the Falcons, also gives him a couple of hundred dollars every week or two, the father said.

Boddie wanted more. Two years ago, he said, he asked Vick for $1 million, spread out over 12 years, enough to keep him comfortable for the rest of his life. Vick declined, the father said. In recent weeks, Boddie asked Vick, through an assistant, for $700,000 to live on.

Boddie said he hasn't been contacted by federal investigators pursuing dogfighting accusations against Vick. A federal grand jury indicted Vick with one count of conspiracy to cross state lines to engage in illegal gambling; to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture; and to buy, transport and receive dogs for animal fighting.

The indictment does not mention the parents' former home in Newport News, where Boddie said he cared for Vick's pit bulls and where he said three dogfighting session were held, roughly around the time that Vick was transitioning from college football to the pros.

Earlier this week, Vick agreed to plead guilty Monday in the federal dogfighting case in Richmond. He faces prison and the possible end of his football career. Three co-defendants already pleaded guilty and were expected to testify against Vick if the case went to trial. In addition, a Virginia prosecutor is considering bringing state charges against Vick.


Anger and anguish

Boddie lives in an apartment, just a few miles from where his son lives in the upscale, gated Sugarloaf neighborhood. Posters of the football star are thumb-tacked to the walls of a guest bedroom. A picture of Vick's two young children is framed on a wall near the kitchen. Hung on a wall beside the kitchen sink is a long list entitled "Quick Drink Recipes."

In language blanketed with profanity, a sometimes sitting, sometimes pacing Boddie recounted what he said was some, but not all, of what he knows about his son. At times while discussing his wife and children, Boddie appeared to alternate between anger and anguish. His cellphone rang several times. At one point he answered, paused, unleashed an expletive-laced torrent of words and marched out of the apartment with the phone to his ear. He later said the caller was an assistant of Michael Vick's who asked what he planned to disclose to a reporter and urged him to keep quiet.

"I know some things," Boddie said. "That's why they're going crazy."

He said he's not perfect. He said he hasn't worked since 2003, went through drug rehab in 2004 paid for by his son, was sometimes high or drunk around his children when they were young, has gotten in trouble for drinking and driving and had his driver's license revoked.

"There are some things I wish I could go back and change," he said.

But Boddie said he gave Vick something that most kids didn't have in the Newport News housing projects where both grew up: "I never left his side. Never left his mother's side. And where we come from, this day and time, that's a hell of a thing."

He and Vick's mother weren't married when Michael Vick was born. But they married later and Boddie said he lived with the family from the time Vick was 3 years old until after his eldest son went to Virginia Tech to play football. He said he was usually working during Vick's youth, often on jobs sandblasting and repainting ships.

He said he is frustrated about continued suggestions that Vick was raised without a father. He said his son and wife should have set the record straight.

But in a 2001 AJC article about their son, his wife was quoted as saying that Boddie's presence in Vick's childhood "means a lot to me."

"He was always there, providing, taking care of what needed to be taken care of. Through everything, we stayed together as a family. I have a lot of respect for him for that."

But in other press reports, both Michael Vick and his mother suggested that Boddie was an emotionally distant father. He "never paid that much attention to me," Vick said, according to a Sports Illustrated story in 2000.

Boddie said that, over the last year, his son has been disrespecting him, "talking to me like I'm one of his . . . dogs."

Boddie said he's tried to look out for his son. Around 2002, while at Vick's rural property near Smithfield, Va., he warned his son.

"I told him basically, 'You don't need to be doing this. You got bigger fish to fry. You got more important things that you can do.' "

Boddie recalled telling his son to transfer the property to the name of one of his friends: " 'Take this place right now, put it in one of their names because if anything goes wrong . . . it's you they coming after.' "

Boddie said he doesn't recall his son's reply.

Boddie also said dogfighting occurred at the family's Newport News home on Terrace Drive. The family was in the house for about a year or more as Vick moved from playing college football at Virginia Tech to the pros.

Boddie said he cleaned out the home's garage three times in 2001 to make room for dogfighting sessions held by Vick and his friends.

"I hung around long enough to actually walk in there when an actual dogfight was going on," Boddie said, but he added that he didn't stay long.

"It wasn't my thing," he said.

He said he had already witnessed test fights of dogs — in which dogs battle to see how well a prospective fighter will perform.

"It's really something to stand there and watch. You have to have the stomach for it," he said.

Boddie said Michael Vick kept pit bulls in eight cages in the backyard of the Terrace Drive home.

However, a neighbor, Willie-Mae Hansell, said she only saw one dog at the house, and never heard anything unusual there.

"I fed the dogs," Boddie said. "I've nursed them back to health, dogs that have been in fights. Raised litters of puppies."

The injured dogs could barely muster up enough strength to eat at first, he said.

Boddie contends that Vick's mother was aware of the dogfighting and said he heard her tell her son to stop it.

Boddie said of his son: "I think he basically told her, 'OK, Mama. OK, I'll stop.' "

Boddie said he wasn't aware of any dogfighting in the Newport News projects when Vick grew up there. The closest he recalled was kids being fascinated as dogs chased stray cats in a nearby lumber yard.

He said that, despite his earlier warnings to his son, he never expected Vick would someday face the dogfighting troubles he is in now.

"I thought he would have gotten out of it by then, gotten it out of his system."

[Sarah]

Hey Mike. Even your dad thinks you're a worthless sack of crap. Go crawl back under your rock and die. Mutant. But, you know, his dad should be flogged too. I wouldn't clean out my damn garage so they'd have a place to do it if I didn't approve. Spineless bastard.

And bucky... setting someone on fire transcends all language barriers. ;)

As a side note.. $130 million? Are you effing kidding me? I knew it was a lot, but Jesus Christ. There's too much going on in the world for these meatheads to make 9 figures for what they do. I'm not saying it's not strenuous on the players or enjoyed by fans. I'm just saying there are starving people in this country, let alone the rest of the world, and these mf'ers are making ridiculous dough for a GAME. Even the lower level players who "don't make a lot" make a lot compared to, you know, real jobs. Like teachers. The priorities here are completely whack and I absolutely detest professional sports for this reason. It makes me sick a little bit. :distress:

[Sarah]

And now, it's DMX's turn to get busted for cruelty. Again.

Pit bulls taken from rapper DMX’s home
By Eva Wolchover
Saturday, August 25, 2007

A dozen “distressed” pit bulls were taken from rapper/actor DMX’s home in Cave Creek, Ariz., yesterday, according to a Phoenix television station.
Along with the dogs, the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Department found a large cache of weapons in the raid. DMZ, whose real name is Earl Simmons, was reportedly not at home during the raid, KPNX-TV reported.
In 2002, Simmons pleaded guilty to the cruel treatment of 13 pit bulls in New Jersey. He avoided jail time by agreeing to make a public service announcement against animal cruelty.
The rapper has a long rap sheet, including a string of convictions for drugs and weapons possession. In 1999, he was arrested on charges of stabbing and shooting his mother. He was eventually cleared.


Here's a link to a full story with pictures and video. http://www.kpho.com/news/13970298/detail.html#

FEED AND WATER YOUR DOGS, PRICK. :mad: :mad: :mad:

I'm not sorry to say... if these guys think this is their "culture", they deserve every nasty label/word that they're called. Their lack of decency disgusts me and makes me forget about my own decency. Truth be told, if they were on fire in a ditch, I'd pee on them just so I could say that I did, then I'd set them on fire again. I'm serious you guys, I'm about to blow a gasket. This **** is making me so goddamn mad every day; I just can't get over it. :distress:

[David]

It will be interesting to see whether Michael, when his jail time is served, gets into a pro football league again, NFL or other. I guess the deciding factor any league would have to settle is whether Michael has a fan base at that point. I can't imagine any team wanting to pull a player aboard -- no matter how great a player he is -- if there is going to be extreme public refusal to accept that player as part of the team. A team has to sell itself, after all, in many different ways. It's a business, as we all know, & it relies on marketing its products. But if the majority of the football public is still vehemently anti-Michael Vick, what league would sign him? What would be the purpose if there were no revenue in it?

[JWS]

It will be interesting to see whether Michael, when his jail time is served, gets into a pro football league again, NFL or other. I guess the deciding factor any league would have to settle is whether Michael has a fan base at that point. I can't imagine any team wanting to pull a player aboard -- no matter how great a player he is -- if there is going to be extreme public refusal to accept that player as part of the team. A team has to sell itself, after all, in many different ways. It's a business, as we all know, & it relies on marketing its products. But if the majority of the football public is still vehemently anti-Michael Vick, what league would sign him? What would be the purpose if there were no revenue in it?

On ESPN the talk is Vick play again in the NFL, but not as QB after a three year layoff. He'll be a part time RB and KO/punt returns.

[buckymcnix]

It will be interesting to see whether Michael, when his jail time is served, gets into a pro football league again, NFL or other. I guess the deciding factor any league would have to settle is whether Michael has a fan base at that point. I can't imagine any team wanting to pull a player aboard -- no matter how great a player he is -- if there is going to be extreme public refusal to accept that player as part of the team. A team has to sell itself, after all, in many different ways. It's a business, as we all know, & it relies on marketing its products. But if the majority of the football public is still vehemently anti-Michael Vick, what league would sign him? What would be the purpose if there were no revenue in it?


There always seems to be some team that is low enough on cash and fans that they are willing to go for a gimmick/"any press is good press" type of situation.

Although he was dumb enough to put that huge contract at risk, i bet he is smart enough to come out of his sentence a "changed man full of apologies and a new understanding into the pain he has called".

Whether this attitude change is for real or just for the hopes of getting back in the game will be subject of much debate i am sure. I really hope he can change his view of dog fighting and what constitutes animal cruelty.

If he can get his foot in the door again with some team it will be a Public Relations Miracle for him but , in this day of paris hilton, nicole richie and insertyourfavoritenotalentcelebrityhere I think P.R. miracles are easier to come by these days. Sadly:distress:

[skcin]

so let me start by saying -
I am a HUGE animal person. Huge.
i have a variety of animals.
I am by NO MEANS advocating this 'curltural' argument but i would care to discuss it more.

Cock fighting in Mexico. Cultural?
Beta fish fighting? Cultural?
Do you shoo a bug that lands on you or smash it ?

I have never known anyone who has been to or participated in dog fighting.
I think what vick did to those dogs is horrific at best and my knee jerk reaction resembles many of those expressed here, Sarah winning 'most colorful vengence' by far ;).
But honestly, if someone is exposed to that kind of behaviour, be it fish, roosters or dogs, then of course they don't feel it's wrong. How do we reach the people who this appeals to? How do you show someone who has already been desensitized to such violent behaviour how vile and wrong it is? I don't even have a suggestion on how to do it.

I was asked to go to cock fights in mexico and i wouldn't. I ate bugs but i wouldn't take part in the cock fights.
But i also couldn't get into an argument in a language i could barely speak about why i felt it was wrong.

anyone have thoughts on that?

My thoughts on your devil's advocate post are that if it's illegal here, you don't do it, even if it's "part of your culture." Forget the fact that I think it's sick, and cruel, and horrific. It's illegal, so too bad. He may be one of the stupidest people ever to blow everything for this.

[gldstwmn]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/08/27/michael.vick/index.html

Vick: 'I need to grow up'RICHMOND, Virginia (CNN) -- Shortly after entering a guilty plea Monday to a federal dogfighting conspiracy charge, suspended NFL quarterback Michael Vick apologized "for all the things that I've done and that I've allowed to happen."

After his guilty plea, Michael Vick tells reporters Monday he takes responsibility for his actions.

1 of 2 In addition to making apologies to Atlanta Falcons teammates, his coach and the National Football League, Vick also said he was sorry "to all the young kids out there for my immature acts."

"What I did was very immature so that means I need to grow up," he said.

He said that he was "disappointed in myself" and that "dogfighting is a terrible thing and I ... reject it."

"I take full responsibility for my actions," Vick said. "Not for one second will I sit right here and point the finger and try to blame anybody else for my actions or what I've done.

"I'm totally responsible and those things just didn't have to happen."

He said, "Through this situation I've found Jesus."

Vick vowed to redeem himself, saying, "I have to."

"I got a lot of downtime ... to think about my actions."

On Friday, the NFL suspended Vick, 27, indefinitely without pay.

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said in a letter to Vick that he would review the status of the suspension after the legal proceedings are over.

Team owner Arthur Blank on Monday said that Vick "betrayed the trust of many people."

"We cannot tell you today that Michael is cut from the team. Cutting him may feel better emotionally for us and for many of our fans, but it's not in the long-term best interests of our franchise," Blank said.

Blank said there were many legal and contractual issues that must be addressed.

Rich McKay, the Falcons' general manager, said the team sent out a "demand letter" Monday for the suspended quarterback's $22 million bonus.

Vick pleaded guilty to one count of "Conspiracy to Travel in Interstate Commerce in Aid of Unlawful Activities and to Sponsor a Dog in an Animal Fighting Venture" in a plea agreement filed in U.S. District Court in Richmond.

During a hearing Monday, U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson asked Vick if he understood the charge. Vick responded, "Yes sir."

Hudson is considering whether to accept a plea deal that calls for a sentence of 12 to 18 months.

The judge set a December 10 sentencing hearing. That's the same day the Falcons are scheduled to take on the New Orleans Saints on ESPN's "Monday Night Football."

Vick was met by cheering supporters as his attorneys and federal marshals escorted him into federal court in Richmond. A group of protesters holding signs with pictures of injured fighting dogs also was on hand.

In legal papers filed last week, Vick admitted financing a dogfighting operation and participating in the killing of dogs that did not fight well.

The former NFL No. 1 draft pick from Virginia Tech could face up to five years in a federal prison, but prosecutors have agreed to seek a lesser punishment.

In an additional summary of facts, signed by Vick and filed with the agreement, Vick admitted buying pit bulls and the property used for training and fighting the dogs, but the statement said he did not bet on the fights or receive any of the money won.

"Most of the 'Bad Newz Kennels' operations and gambling monies were provided by Vick," the official summary of facts said. Gambling wins were generally split among co-conspirators Tony Taylor, Quanis Phillips and sometimes Purnell Peace, it continued.

"Vick did not gamble by placing side bets on any of the fights. Vick did not receive any of the proceeds from the purses that were won by 'Bad Newz Kennels.' "

Vick also agreed that "collective efforts" by him and two others caused the deaths of at least six dogs.

Peace, 35, of Virginia Beach, Virginia; Phillips, 28, of Atlanta, Georgia; and Taylor, 34, of Hampton, Virginia, have accepted agreements to plead guilty in exchange for reduced sentences. See a timeline of the case against Vick »

The federal case against Vick focused on the interstate conspiracy, but Vick's admission that he was involved in the killing of dogs could lead to local charges, Toobin said.

"It sometimes happens -- not often -- that the state will follow a federal prosecution by charging its own crimes for exactly the same behavior," Toobin said.

"The risk for Vick is, if he makes admissions in his federal guilty plea, the state of Virginia could say, 'Hey, look, you admitted violating Virginia state law as well. We're going to introduce that against you and charge you in our court.' "

In the plea deal, Vick agreed to cooperate with investigators and provide all information he may have on any criminal activity and to testify if necessary. Vick also agreed to turn over any documents he has and to submit to polygraph tests.

Vick agreed to "make restitution for the full amount of the costs associated" with the dogs that are being held by the government.

"Such costs may include, but are not limited to, all costs associated with the care of the dogs involved in that case, including if necessary, the long-term care and/or the humane euthanasia of some or all of those animals."

Prosecutors, with the support of animal rights activists, have asked for permission to euthanize the dogs. But the dogs could serve as important evidence in the cases against Vick and his admitted co-conspirators.

[skcin]

I don't think Jesus wants him. :shrug:





kidding

[Sarah]

That's right, pull the Jesus card, you sorry sack of crap.


Watching this news conference today, I said I was disappointed that they wouldn't cut him from the team. My father - who knows a lot about all the different aspects of the football "business" - says that it will probably happen, but not until the Falcons finish their pursuit over the salary cap money, etc. They don't want to cut him until those actions are done. But, like some other people have said here, if the NFL doesn't suspend him permanently, it's likely that he'll get picked up and play for someone else. Sickening. I hope he gets boo-ed everywhere he goes. If he ever gets back out on the field, I hope it's a THUNDEROUS boo.

He's a thug.. his brother is a thug.. and I don't believe for one damn minute that he's sorry or has "found Jesus" or wtf-ever else. He's just been taught that it's important to begin saving your reputation STAT so that he can get back out there with a cleaner image in a few years.

Even then, I'll still think he's a dirty SOB who deserves to be beaten within a half inch of his life then thrown to a pack of hungry wolves.

[Raeven Skye]

Save face by owning up to everything and "finding Jesus"...give me a freaking break! He doesn't deserve another chance at being a millionaire....put the trash on the curb, and let someone else have a shot.

[gldstwmn]

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/08/25/vickbonus_0826.html

Falcons want $22 million back from Vick

The Falcons will try to recoup $22 million already paid to suspended quarterback Michael Vick, a person with knowledge of the team's plans told the Journal-Constitution on Saturday.

Vick was suspended indefinitely by the NFL on Friday after he pleaded guilty to federal dogfighting charges in Virginia. That cleared the way for the Falcons to pursue money paid to Vick in signing bonus money.

Vick has received roughly $40 million in guaranteed bonuses — and even more in base salary — but teams are only allowed to try to recoup money paid in signing bonuses, per the collective bargaining agreement with the players' union.

To collect the money, Vick must remain on the Falcons' roster. Therefore the team will not release Vick until the matter is resolved, the person familiar with the situation said.

The Falcons are expected to cut ties with Vick, once their most popular player, once the signing bonus matter is finalized.

If Atlanta receives payment from Vick, the money would be applied to the salary cap of the upcoming season. For example, should Atlanta receive all of the $22 million it seeks before the 2008 NFL calendar year, it would be credited toward the 2008 salary cap.

That would provide a huge windfall of cap space for the Falcons to use in pursuing free agent players.

As for this season, the Falcons will not have to pay Vick his $6 million base salary. However, he will count roughly $8.5 million against their salary cap. Though Vick will remain on the roster, he will be placed on a suspended list, which will allow the Falcons to add a player in Vick's place.

This could be the latest financial hit for Vick. On Friday, Nike official severed its ties with the quarterback, saying in a statement, "We consider any cruelty to animals inhumane, abhorrent and unacceptable."

The shoe giant earlier had suspended Vick's endorsement contract.

[amber]

I guess Jesus hangs out in Courts, Jails/Prisons, and Rehab facilities. At least that is where everyone seems to find him. So, there you have it everyone, the next time you want to get in touch with Jesus there is a short list of his likely whereabouts. He is also sometimes found at the Grammys and other music awards shows. At least I assume he is there, since he gets thanked so much. It's nice he can take time out of his busy schedule with the more unfortunate people in jail and rehab to kick up his heels a little and blow off some steam at an awards show every now and then. Good ol' Jebus.

[estranged4life]

I guess Jesus hangs out in Courts, Jails/Prisons, and Rehab facilities. At least that is where everyone seems to find him. So, there you have it everyone, the next time you want to get in touch with Jesus there is a short list of his likely whereabouts. He is also sometimes found at the Grammys and other music awards shows. At least I assume he is there, since he gets thanked so much. It's nice he can take time out of his busy schedule with the more unfortunate people in jail and rehab to kick up his heels a little and blow off some steam at an awards show every now and then. Good ol' Jebus.

the other day while looking for loose change in my couch, He was sitting next to a 3 month old Cheetos...Didnt seem to be phased at my discovery of the said Cheetos, a crucifix shaped 'dust-bunny' and about $.21 in pennies.

:laugh:

[JWS]

On MNF tonight, ironically coming from Atlanta, it was said Michael Vick's tragic fall from grace is the biggest and quickest in sports history. In Vick's apology today he said he made a mistake...I disagree. A mistake is making a turn down a one way street going the wrong direction. A mistake is a DUI. Running and financing a criminal activity for more than six years and killing countless dogs is not a mistake...it's criminal racketeering and that's what Vick was facing if he went to trial.

It's so typical, these player apologies. They're only sorry that they were caught. And, now he finds religion...:(

There were black supporters at today's hearing singing "We Shall Overcome" and other civil rights march hymns. Poor Michael Vick...a victim....forced to plead guilty to avoid more serious charges and years in prison.

[Sarah]

It's so typical, these player apologies. They're only sorry that they were caught. And, now he finds religion...:(

There were black supporters at today's hearing singing "We Shall Overcome" and other civil rights march hymns. Poor Michael Vick...a victim....forced to plead guilty to avoid more serious charges and years in prison.

Yes. My mother said this earlier.. about only being sorry he was caught. (She said that many times to me when I was little as well. :laugh: )

And also.. this We Shall Overcome ****? That makes me angry. Let's sic the dogs that were trained to be mean on them and give them something to TRULY overcome. That's obvious abuse of the race card. He didn't get busted and isn't facing punishment because he's black. They're ONLY standing behind him because he's black. That crap only encourages racism by forcing the issue and blanketing an entire group of people. Lamesauce.

But please, don't get me started on the people in Atlanta. I hate going to that city, and I'm not the kind of person who gives a crap if you're white, black, polkadotted, or an alien with 17 arms complete with bloodsuckers.

[JWS]

Yes. My mother said this earlier.. about only being sorry he was caught. (She said that many times to me when I was little as well. :laugh: )

And also.. this We Shall Overcome ****? That makes me angry. Let's sic the dogs that were trained to be mean on them and give them something to TRULY overcome. That's obvious abuse of the race card. He didn't get busted and isn't facing punishment because he's black. They're ONLY standing behind him because he's black. That crap only encourages racism by forcing the issue and blanketing an entire group of people. Lamesauce.

But please, don't get me started on the people in Atlanta. I hate going to that city, and I'm not the kind of person who gives a crap if you're white, black, polkadotted, or an alien with 17 arms complete with bloodsuckers.


To be fair to people of Atlanta, the protesters/supporters were at the courthouse in Richmond, Virginia. Some could have been from Atlanta....but I guess most were from the Virginia/North Carolina area.

[Steviefan49]

He should be slathered in blood and meat and thrown into a dark den of wolves.

I actually legitimately have hate in my heart for the filthy-ass son of a bitch, and I hope that when he dies, his version of hell is being torn apart by dogs - limb by limb, over and over all day, every day - for all eternity. :mad::mad::mad:

Amen Sarah! I couldn't have said that one better if I tried!

[Steviefan49]

I don't think Jesus wants him. :shrug:





kidding

Me either.. LOL

[skcin]

To be fair to people of Atlanta, the protesters/supporters were at the courthouse in Richmond, Virginia. Some could have been from Atlanta....but I guess most were from the Virginia/North Carolina area.

Richmond is not much different than Atlanta in that respect.

[Sarah]

To be fair to people of Atlanta, the protesters/supporters were at the courthouse in Richmond, Virginia. Some could have been from Atlanta....but I guess most were from the Virginia/North Carolina area.

That's right, I forgot about court being in Richmond.

Truth be told, the people of Atlanta probably called the people of Richmond and told them to represent for them.

God was probably laughing at their little hymns.

[JazmenFlowers]

anyone see Larry King last night. one attorney was saying how surprised he was at how upset people are and that "in the scheme of life and things" does it really make a difference. it was disgusting to sit there and watch him say those things as they showed clips of things Vick took part in. I had to turn the channel.

[gldstwmn]

Had to change the channel on Larry King after a few minutes. Couldn't deal.

[Sarah]

anyone see Larry King last night. one attorney was saying how surprised he was at how upset people are and that "in the scheme of life and things" does it really make a difference. it was disgusting to sit there and watch him say those things as they showed clips of things Vick took part in. I had to turn the channel.

He has no soul. It's been sold.

[Mywyldhrt]

I haven't read this whole thread...I am an animal lover-and I get real emotional over stories of adults that hurt children and animals. On the lighter side of this subject, did anyone see the Micheal Vick dog toy????? How friggin' appropriate is that???? :nod:

[JWS]

I haven't read this whole thread...I am an animal lover-and I get real emotional over stories of adults that hurt children and animals. On the lighter side of this subject, did anyone see the Micheal Vick dog toy????? How friggin' appropriate is that???? :nod:

It was a chew doll of Vick in a football uniform. I heard it has been pulled from the market after complaints about profiteering on dead dogs. Here is a pic

http://www.jimmyshowbiz.com/vickschewtoy2.jpg

[kathy1]

no i didn't watch larry king last night. i think it is horrible.

[skcin]

no i didn't watch larry king last night. i think it is horrible.

you think larry king is horrible, or what Vick did? :lol: seriously, it could go either way.

[kathy1]

what vick did.