New one strike rule

[Rickypt]

To mods: There should be better communication to Ledgies about the new, zero-tolerance "one strike and you're out" rule. Right now it is buried in a thread from Penguin that many of us did not read because we thought it was yet another thread about the sale. Not everyone is interested in reading about the pending sale, therefore we are not reading these threads. You should have a thread called "New Rules Effective Immediately". And, until you communicate better about this, you shouldn't ban people and you should reinstate the people you banned yesterday.

[BTFLCHLD]

To mods: There should be better communication to Ledgies about the new, zero-tolerance "one strike and you're out" rule. Right now it is buried in a thread from Penguin that many of us did not read because we thought it was yet another thread about the sale. Not everyone is interested in reading about the pending sale, therefore we are not reading these threads. You should have a thread called "New Rules Effective Immediately". And, until you communicate better about this, you shouldn't ban people and you should reinstate the people you banned yesterday.

A sticky thread at that top of each forum titled "READ THIS MESSAGE" should be sufficient communication...IMO.

[Rickypt]

Why not err on the side of clear and effective communication? :shrug: Especially when imposing dramatic new rules. Plus the FAQs haven't been changed. I don't even notice if there is a new sticky--that one from JS has been up forever so I glaze over them. But if the subject of the thread was clear then I would have opened it. As it is, I had no idea about the new rules until told through another source.

[strandinthewind]

. . . and you should reinstate the people you banned yesterday.

Who got banned :eek:

[mikeschmike]

For what it's worth, all parties involved in yesterday's little spat should have been banned, not just half. It's not like the two banned members went on the attack without being provoked. Which has been going on for months, if any moderators had bothered to pay attention.

You know, now that I think of it...if there are going to be drastic changes to the rules and strike system, shouldn't all of the mods be present to enforce this rather then just one? Doesn't seem right to me.

[Rickypt]

Who got banned :eek:

Ryan and Foxy.

I just think it's odd. We've had no moderation for several months and now this drastic change right before the board is sold. And notice of the change not clearly stated in the thread subject.

[strandinthewind]

Ryan and at least one other.

I just think it's odd. We've had no moderation for several months and now this drastic change right before the board is sold. And notice of the change not clearly stated in the thread subject.

Wow - This is the first I hear of this. Just out of curiosity, what thread lead to that? I know he and BW got into it a little, but I thought they were joking :eek:

On edit - I realize this topic might be better suited for PM's -- but the PM's appear to be broken. So, if anyone wants to email me at [email protected] and enlighten me, I'd appreciate it!

[JazmenFlowers]

I'd just add that if you look at the view counts, it's pretty evident that not a lot of people have read that sticky. 100 here...100 there...maybe 300 in total actually opened it, most of those may have not even read it.

being the OCD person that I am, I always look at stickies first, but many people, for reasons Ryan pointed out, may not.

[Rickypt]

being the OCD person that I am, I always look at stickies first, but many people, for reasons Ryan pointed out, may not.

I don't know, maybe I'm the only one. But I don't respond to things like "Read this message". Maybe because anytime I get an email with a similar subject, it's some dude in Nigeria wanting my checking account number?

[BTFLCHLD]

I am curious...

Do some people prefer 3 strikes so they can sit on the fence after breaking two?

[Rickypt]

^^3 strikes allows time and room to question/appeal and to clarify or explain a post. One strike means the moderator makes a decision and you're out for a lifetime.

The Ledge can obviously have whatever rules it wants, but I don't understand why the need for the big change when it is being sold anyway. Especially since we've had almost no moderation the past few months. We've gone from being able to say whatever we want to one strike and you're out.

[strandinthewind]

^^3 strikes allows time and room to question/appeal and to clarify or explain a post. One strike means the moderator makes a decision and you're out for a lifetime.

The Ledge can obviously have whatever rules it wants, but I don't understand why the need for the big change when it is being sold anyway. Especially since we've had almost no moderation the past few months. We've gone from being able to say whatever we want to one strike and you're out.

Not to mention warnings/suspensions/etc. were frequently given.

I do not know all the facts in this instance though.

[BTFLCHLD]

^^3 strikes allows time and room to question/appeal and to clarify or explain a post. One strike means the moderator makes a decision and you're out for a lifetime.

The Ledge can obviously have whatever rules it wants, but I don't understand why the need for the big change when it is being sold anyway. Especially since we've had almost no moderation the past few months. We've gone from being able to say whatever we want to one strike and you're out. I see...that makes sense in allowing time for explanations. Perhaps it is the wish of the new buyer to have the rule change? :shrug: As for moderating the past few months, yes I believe Ryan was out on 6/26 (never forget?)...but there is sugar and suze that I have noticed on-line. I even caught a glimpse of mario the other day! And, was The Ledge ever about "saying whatever we want?" I'd be curious how you came about having that thought.

[Rickypt]

I see...that makes sense in allowing time for explanations. Perhaps it is the wish of the new buyer to have the rule change? :shrug: As for moderating the past few months, yes I believe Ryan was out on 6/26 (never forget?)...but there is sugar and suze that I have noticed on-line. I even caught a glimpse of mario the other day! And, was The Ledge ever about "saying whatever we want?" I'd be curious how you came about having that thought.

I don't mean the moderators haven't been around, I mean the rules haven't been enforced. All you have to do is go through threads from the past few months and see that moderation basically stopped. The name-calling and swearing was all over the place. I personally don't care because I believe people can just maneuver through that stuff how they wish.

[Johnny Stew]

As stated by Marty in his post, the policy change was "effective immediately," and, after nearly 700 total views in three days, we all felt that more than enough people had to be aware of the change.

On average, we get less than a fourth of that number in daily visitors (both registered and unregistered).

You know, now that I think of it...if there are going to be drastic changes to the rules and strike system, shouldn't all of the mods be present to enforce this rather then just one? Doesn't seem right to me.No worries... all of the moderators are present and are enforcing this. We may step in and mediate situations individually, but when it comes to decisions regarding strikes and bannings, we've always handled it democratically.

[Rickypt]

^^What's the reason behind the change in rules?

[gldstwmn]

Ryan

We've had no moderation for several months

The answer is there if you want to see it.

[Rickypt]

What I've seen is erratic, inconsistent moderation ranging from overkill to complete absence for months. I've recently seen a moderator come in and scold a member publicly in a thread while telling the rest of us to take our issues with moderators to PMs. And now I see a dramatic change, effective "immediately', taking us from no moderation to extreme clampdown. And for no stated reason, as if we aren't a community, but just a bunch of "members" who should feel lucky to be here and happily submit to control.

[Johnny Stew]

We had previously tried quietly stepping back a little, to give people the chance to moderate their own behavior, but that was taken advantage of and a change needed to be made to help curb the ever-increasing number of severe rule violations.

We -- the moderators and Marty -- knew the decision wouldn't be popular with some visitors, but it was deemed necessary to help make a smooth transition from Marty's ownership to that of any potential buyers.

The "Three Strikes" policy may have changed, but the rest of the guidelines remain as they've been for seven years.

Now, with all due respect, anything more that we say on the matter will just be repetition.

[danax6]

We had previously tried quietly stepping back a little, to give people the chance to moderate their own behavior.Really? For what purpose?

[Moony]

The answer is there if you want to see it.

He was never as good a mod as you, right Chrissy?

[Kelly]

All Sugar did was ask for people to stop the bickering. :confused: Take the fight to PMs.....no big deal IMO.

Randomly picking people to strike or ban is not new around here...all parties who break rules should be banned. Or none of them should be.
Marty made his new position very clear and if rules were broken, I guess we should have expected this. .

The Sticky with the bold "PLEASE READ" was the first thing I noticed when I logged on to the board, after it was posted by Marty. It still jumps out at me as soon as I sign on.........it is at the top of every single forum with capital letters. :shrug: With all the hard work, money, and time that Marty and Lis have put in to their site, it must be rather disheartening to watch all that has happened in the last few years, esp on the Chit Chat Ledge. :nod: I really hope they can find a buyer who is willing to deal with all the drama, and keep the forums up and running.

[DavidMn]

Personally, I see the 1 strike rule as a way for Marty and Lis to weed out the and elements before they sell to whomever. You can argue whether or not the
way its been done is right or not, but maybe theyre trying to clean things up before the new owner takes over and maybe decided to shut everything down because they dont like what they see? Just a thought.

[gldstwmn]

With all the hard work, money, and time that Marty and Lis have put in to their site, it must be rather disheartening to watch all that has happened in the last few years, esp on the Chit Chat Ledge. :nod:

Trying to moderate that thing was at times like tyring to fight off a beast with a fork. Don't knock it until you've tried it. :lol:

[Mywyldhrt]

I am going to say something-at great risk for getting pummeled. I just e-mailed a friend, also a member here. I just don't understand how these websites became so dramatic and unfriendly. To the point of bannings and websites shutting down because the owners don't want to deal with it anymore-we are admirers of one of the best and oldest still productive bands in the world. I have gone to many concerts-Fleetwood Mac has very unique mellow, peace-loving crowd. I truly believe I have walked by many of you at one time or another in my life-I've live on the east coast, and I've lived in the west. Now that this is on its way to being shut down, where are the fans going to go????? Please everyone, get a grip and don't ruin it for everyone, let things go........

Back to hiding under a rock

Donna

[#1LiddyBuckFan]

I just remember how much it sucked when the board was down for a week...and how happy I and everyone was when it came back.

We've lost that lovin' feeling...;)

Take the "fights" to PM's/e-mail or let it go and you won't get booted. Simple. :wavey:

[Rickypt]

You can argue whether or not the
way its been done is right or not.

Yes, that's what I was doing. :nod: I was just asking for a more fair and transparent process and better communication. And maybe a few more days to let people learn about the new rules before enforcement. Going from an experiment of no moderation (per what JS has said) to one strike and you're gone is dramatic and I would give at least a week and a couple of reminders to make sure people were aware of new rules. Like I've said a zillion times, the owner and moderators have a right to do whatever they want, but I wish they were a little more open to feedback instead of getting defensive every time someone challenges them or makes a suggestion.

[Mari]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/368096432_bb46822f21.jpg
Welcome to the new & improved ledge.

How cozy.

[SuzeQuze]

I am going to say something-at great risk for getting pummeled. I just e-mailed a friend, also a member here. I just don't understand how these websites became so dramatic and unfriendly. To the point of bannings and websites shutting down because the owners don't want to deal with it anymore-we are admirers of one of the best and oldest still productive bands in the world. I have gone to many concerts-Fleetwood Mac has very unique mellow, peace-loving crowd. I truly believe I have walked by many of you at one time or another in my life-I've live on the east coast, and I've lived in the west. Now that this is on its way to being shut down, where are the fans going to go????? Please everyone, get a grip and don't ruin it for everyone, let things go........

Back to hiding under a rock

Donna

There's a culture that's developed here where many have decided it is okay to be mean and bully others. It isn't.

[irishgrl]

will the banned people get a chance to re-register with a new owner?
just curious....

[Sugar]

will the banned people get a chance to re-register with a new owner?
just curious....

I suppose that will be a choice for the new owner.

[SortaSavageLike]

I am going to say something-at great risk for getting pummeled. I just e-mailed a friend, also a member here. I just don't understand how these websites became so dramatic and unfriendly. To the point of bannings and websites shutting down because the owners don't want to deal with it anymore-we are admirers of one of the best and oldest still productive bands in the world. I have gone to many concerts-Fleetwood Mac has very unique mellow, peace-loving crowd.

You're forgetting of course, that people become different people as soon as the log onto the internet. What would normally be a spirited debate in "real life" suddenly becomes a viscious, bloodsucking tirade in which insults and flamebait are tossed out without any real goal, except to go down in a blaze of glory. :rolleyes:

[Mywyldhrt]

You're forgetting of course, that people become different people as soon as the log onto the internet. What would normally be a spirited debate in "real life" suddenly becomes a viscious, bloodsucking tirade in which insults and flamebait are tossed out without any real goal, except to go down in a blaze of glory. :rolleyes:

I guess some can't see a difference between being a ball breaker and an asshole..........:shrug:

[gldstwmn]

will the banned people get a chance to re-register with a new owner?
just curious....

If so, that will provide for an interesting two weeks or less. :lol:

[BlackWidow]

If so, that will provide for an interesting two weeks or less. :lol:

What do you mean?

[Rickypt]

Question: why are some people still getting warnings while others got banned with no warning? :confused:

[Mari]

Because as long as the ledge exists, moderating has never followed those rules set by the moderators themselves.

(And I should know, I've been around here for ten years now)

All those litle rules are only there to keep the naive happy, to make them believe there's some kind of fairness here, but meanwhile it has always been pretty arbitrary.

[gldstwmn]

What do you mean?

My feeling is that some of the people banned over the years, if they were to come back would not last very long.

[Tango]

My feeling is that some of the people banned over the years, if they were to come back would not last very long.

I agree. Do we really need another round of The Arizona Ranger and some of the other kind souls that have visited the boards? Again, I think a lot of this assumes The Ledge will continue to function.

Will The Ledge continue? If, say, Fleetwood Mac buys the site, they certainly aren't going to want The Ledge. I can see them wanting the information (as a certain employee of theirs once tried to steal information directly from the site in the past), such as the discography, maybe The Blue Letter Archives, the Q&As, but why would they want to keep a problematic message board?

[Johnny Stew]

Question: why are some people still getting warnings while others got banned with no warning? :confused:Not some people. One person.

The mods all felt that since Liam McConville has only been here a few weeks, it would be best to give him a warning.

[strandinthewind]

Not some people. One person.

The mods all felt that since Liam McConville has only been here a few weeks, it would be best to give him a warning.

1. I agree with the policy of giving a warning.

2. The action was still against the policy stated. This why people get all up in arms around here.

Again, I am all for warnings and agree with the moderators decision. On the other hand, Ryan, who we all sort of parented :laugh: - gets tossed seemingly without a warning. I freely admit that Ryan could have been warned a million times and we just do not know it. That is why I do not question the moderators' actions in banning him, though I likely would not have banned him myself.

[SuzeQuze]

My feeling is that some of the people banned over the years, if they were to come back would not last very long.

I knew what you meant but then again I'm wicked smaht ;)

[Johnny Stew]

1. I agree with the policy of giving a warning.

2. The action was still against the policy stated. This why people get all up in arms around here.Still trying to avoid getting on the "over-explanation" train, but I wanted to say that the mods were totally aware that it might seem "unfair" to give Liam a warning instead of the automatic banning.

Based on the fact that he's only been posting here since August 1st, he was given the benefit of the doubt -- this time. Make no mistake that, now that he's aware of the rules, there won't be a second warning.

[Rickypt]

Not some people. One person.

The mods all felt that since Liam McConville has only been here a few weeks, it would be best to give him a warning.

I thought you said that the new rules are perfectly clear and that you all felt comfortable that "more than enough" people had read them. Someone who has been here a few weeks has had as much of an opportunity to read this supposed eye-catching warning from the Penguin as anyone else.

I'm not pushing for Liam to be banned and sending a warning was the right call.
Just an extremely inconsistent one that goes against the logic you presented last week.

[Tango]

I thought you said that the new rules are perfectly clear and that you all felt comfortable that "more than enough" people had read them. Someone who has been here a few weeks has had as much of an opportunity to read this supposed eye-catching warning from the Penguin as anyone else.

I'm not pushing for Liam to be banned and sending a warning was the right call.
Just an extremely inconsistent one that goes against the logic you presented last week.


I'm not sure why you are worried about the new rules, Ryan. The whole place may be gone shortly. It's really not worth litigating this, is it? Marty is fine with the judgements of the moderators, and it's their decision.

[Johnny Stew]

I thought you said that the new rules are perfectly clear and that you all felt comfortable that "more than enough" people had read them. Someone who has been here a few weeks has had as much of an opportunity to read this supposed eye-catching warning from the Penguin as anyone else.What I actually said was that the new policy was clear and more than enough people had time to read it. The rules themselves have not changed in seven years.

In his announcement, Marty also said that "the decisions of the moderators are absolutely final."

So it's not an example of inconsistency to decide it best, in this particular instance, to give a newbie the benefit of the doubt.
Yes, you can argue that he, too, should be aware of the rules, but we all felt that we could afford someone who's only been here for two weeks this one chance to correct his behaviour. Seemed kinder than banning him before he even had a chance to get his bearings here.

[danax6]

But Sugar already warned the newbies:

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpost.php?p=708147&postcount=109

:shrug:

[michelle2677]

if a supporting member gets banned, do they get their money back?


:lol: okay okay. i'm kidding.

[Rickypt]

I'm not sure why you are worried about the new rules, Ryan. The whole place may be gone shortly. It's really not worth litigating this, is it? Marty is fine with the judgements of the moderators, and it's their decision.

Tango, I'm not worried about the new rules, but about the selective enforcement and what I saw as inadequate notice and communication. Two of my friends who were longtime members were banned and I hate to see them go. I'm not litigating anything, as it is clear no one is going to change their mind. You are right, the mods and Marty can make any decision they want, but we are a community and I think it's okay to express my concern about this.

[JazmenFlowers]

but we are a community and I think it's okay to express my concern about this.
and also, supporting members should especially voice concerns since it is our dollars that we are putting up as support. if the board we are supporting takes a turn we don't necessarily agree with, we should be able to have a civil discussion about such without threat of "stop this discussion now" or threat of bannings over such discussions.

[Stew_Matthews]

I caught up with this thread just a few minutes before I had to log out the other morning. I was really saddened by it to be honest. I’ve seen the site from a distance for a couple of years now and as someone in another thread said, there are cliques, clashes of personality here etc, as I’m sure occurs in many offices and factories across the world.

I came here initially because I love Fleetwood Mac but stayed because of many of the people who post here – even though many of you don’t know me. I really like the guys who post in the Lindsey thread – Shakin’up, Nikki, Madness, Brandon. They keep the interest going for me in my favourite member of the band. Equally I tend to enjoy the more current affairs posts that Chris and Suze post. Andre does my head in at times but fits in very well. And in that category are probably Irishgrl and Musicman. Jason (Strand) is pretty verbose (it justifies his fees I guess!) but very good value. In addition I always look out for Michelle, Carrie, Breton, Sara1998, Pip, JannieC, Estranged, Sarah amongst a host of other good people. Christine and Liam have also put plenty of energy into the board more recently.

So my point. I struggle with how we can have a ‘community’ without Michael and Ryan. They both contributed a great deal to this site and it is a lesser place in my opinion without them. I haven’t caught up with what they said to incur a ban but you only need to leaf through the threads in a number of forums to see what they added to The Ledge – post after post of great input.

In some ways the board has never really got over the incident a few months ago when a whole group got banned for putting a horse’s picture in their sig pics. I don’t want to re-open that debate, but from where I sit, the Moderators have some outstanding issues that need to be cleared up about that whole incident. For me that issue continues to fester away today and spoil the site.

Equally I can see how the moderators feel at the end of their tether at times. The chit chat thread is a monster and it must be difficult to manage. But I thought the religion debate the other day showed how we all are waking up to the fact that we need to moderate our behaviour. It was the right thing not to ban Liam and despite Brandon getting some flak I admire the way he encouraged Liam to change his post to avoid a ban. I suspect we have all learnt that we are at the end of the road and we need to behave with a bit more respect towards each other.

Maybe Ryan and Michael need to apologise, as Liam did, to whoever they offended. But I’d like to see them back. I don’t think it would undermine anyone’s credibility or authority to do so. I think the message about behaviour is clear and understood by all of us.

Now I have dragged myself across one of the most dangerous places in the world to post this so I hope that Johnny and colleagues will read it and maybe reflect on what I have said.

Stew

[michelle2677]

^^very good post :nod: :nod:

[BlackWidow]

Stewart..I'm um....flattered.

[KristinG]

I know I'm pretty much new here, so I'll mind my own business. I just wanted to say that I thought Stew's post was very good...

Stay safe in Iraq!

[strandinthewind]

I caught up with this thread just a few minutes before I had to log out the other morning. I was really saddened by it to be honest. I’ve seen the site from a distance for a couple of years now and as someone in another thread said, there are cliques, clashes of personality here etc, as I’m sure occurs in many offices and factories across the world.

I came here initially because I love Fleetwood Mac but stayed because of many of the people who post here – even though many of you don’t know me. I really like the guys who post in the Lindsey thread – Shakin’up, Nikki, Madness, Brandon. They keep the interest going for me in my favourite member of the band. Equally I tend to enjoy the more current affairs posts that Chris and Suze post. Andre does my head in at times but fits in very well. And in that category are probably Irishgrl and Musicman. Jason (Strand) is pretty verbose (it justifies his fees I guess!) but very good value. In addition I always look out for Michelle, Carrie, Breton, Sara1998, Pip, JannieC, Estranged, Sarah amongst a host of other good people. Christine and Liam have also put plenty of energy into the board more recently.

So my point. I struggle with how we can have a ‘community’ without Michael and Ryan. They both contributed a great deal to this site and it is a lesser place in my opinion without them. I haven’t caught up with what they said to incur a ban but you only need to leaf through the threads in a number of forums to see what they added to The Ledge – post after post of great input.

In some ways the board has never really got over the incident a few months ago when a whole group got banned for putting a horse’s picture in their sig pics. I don’t want to re-open that debate, but from where I sit, the Moderators have some outstanding issues that need to be cleared up about that whole incident. For me that issue continues to fester away today and spoil the site.

Equally I can see how the moderators feel at the end of their tether at times. The chit chat thread is a monster and it must be difficult to manage. But I thought the religion debate the other day showed how we all are waking up to the fact that we need to moderate our behaviour. It was the right thing not to ban Liam and despite Brandon getting some flak I admire the way he encouraged Liam to change his post to avoid a ban. I suspect we have all learnt that we are at the end of the road and we need to behave with a bit more respect towards each other.

Maybe Ryan and Michael need to apologise, as Liam did, to whoever they offended. But I’d like to see them back. I don’t think it would undermine anyone’s credibility or authority to do so. I think the message about behaviour is clear and understood by all of us.

Now I have dragged myself across one of the most dangerous places in the world to post this so I hope that Johnny and colleagues will read it and maybe reflect on what I have said.

Stew


Perfection!

[BlackWidow]

I know I'm pretty much new here, so I'll mind my own business. I just wanted to say that I thought Stew's post was very good...

Stay safe in Iraq!

You are a terrific addition to our board. Post away...

[BTFLCHLD]

Nikki sweet. Sorry I have been put-off on participating there as of late. Maybe some day I will get back to where I belong.

that issue among others.

cool of you to trek through to provide insight. take care. :angel:

[KristinG]

You are a terrific addition to our board. Post away...

Oh thank you so much!!

I will post more, right now I'm trying to get a feel for the place and all of the personalities so I'm lurking mostly...:p

[BlackWidow]

Oh thank you so much!!

I will post more, right now I'm trying to get a feel for the place and all of the personalities so I'm lurking mostly...:p

...it is a major undertaking....;)

[BTFLCHLD]

...it is a major undertaking....;) particularly when they change on a dime. :lol:

[BlackWidow]

particularly when they change on a dime. :lol:

honey..that is an UNDERSTATEMENT.

[BTFLCHLD]

honey..that is an UNDERSTATEMENT.
ok...a penny. :cool:

[BlackWidow]

ok...a penny. :cool:

none of us really "know" anyone on here, really.
It is but a microcosm of life.

[BTFLCHLD]

welcome back ryan. ;)

edit: odd, ryan was listed as an active user earlier yet he is not yet listed back on the member list. hmmm. :confused:

[JazmenFlowers]

welcome back ryan. ;)

edit: odd, ryan was listed as an active user earlier yet he is not yet listed back on the member list. hmmm. :confused:
which Ryan?

[gldstwmn]

welcome back ryan. ;)

edit: odd, ryan was listed as an active user earlier yet he is not yet listed back on the member list. hmmm. :confused:

If I remember correctly, they can read but not post.

[SuzeQuze]

honey..that is an UNDERSTATEMENT.

I know, right? Blows my mind really.

[BlackWidow]

I know, right? Blows my mind really.

mine too. it is the internet after all. it is what it is.

[Rickypt]

Tower appears to be banned. If anyone has his email address, please PM me. I'd like to stay in touch with him.

[JazmenFlowers]

Tower appears to be banned. If anyone has his email address, please PM me. I'd like to stay in touch with him.
me too! :distress:

[gldstwmn]

Tower appears to be banned. If anyone has his email address, please PM me. I'd like to stay in touch with him.

I would but the pm's do not appear to be working.

[BlackWidow]

I will miss Towie....

[JazmenFlowers]

I would but the pm's do not appear to be working.
I've gotten it. thanks for trying/offering though! :thumbsup:

[Rickypt]

I would but the pm's do not appear to be working.

Thank you, and I was able to get it.

[gldstwmn]

I will miss Towie....

As will I. It won't be the same without him. :(

[BTFLCHLD]

yea towie :(

whatever you do, don't use the C word :eek:

I notice that towie used it in one of his last posts

and didn't mari have that creative avatar?

I have read worse here, used with entirely different intent, yet that remains.

:distress:

[DavidMn]

I'm assuming he got banned (If he did) for starting that thread about Ethan. I have to say this, regardless of how anyone feels about Ethan, Towie had to know that starting a thread like that was going to be grounds for banning. I'm also sorry he's gone, but he has no one to blame but himself. I know he had a bit of an irrevrant attitude, so he probably doesnt care anyway.

[BTFLCHLD]

I'm assuming he got banned (If he did) for starting that thread about Ethan. I suspect it was professor plum in the library with a candlestick holder! :blob1:

[shackin'up]

come on people, fill me in here. Which SCREENNAMES have been banned? all those surnames make me shaky

[shackin'up]

I MISS CARNEVACA!!!!!

well, have you heard his CD? Carne made an album. That's what he did with his time off, being banned. It's actually quite good. He has lindsey-recordingspeed, but hey! the guy has a job and a family. :laugh:

Myspace/pedromusic

[danax6]

come on people, fill me in here. Which SCREENNAMES have been banned? all those surnames make me shakyRyan-numbers, foxyluva, Mari and The Tower.

[shackin'up]

MARIEKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:xoxo:

[Rickypt]

I have to say this, regardless of how anyone feels about Ethan, Towie had to know that starting a thread like that was going to be grounds for banning.

I think we all know that. It still doesn't mean that it doesn't totally suck that longtime members who have contributed tremendously to this board are gone. And Ethan has taken punches for almost a year now and posts even more threads than ever, so I'm not quite sure why the need to protect him.

[buckymcnix]

And Ethan has taken punches for almost a year now and posts even more threads than ever, so I'm not quite sure why the need to protect him.




That, my friend Ry, has always been the $64,000 question to me.

Ethan says "I won't post so much" "i won't start so many threads" blah blah -
they are his words and yet . . .

. . . then when he does "post so much" and "starts so many threads", people call him on it and the mods jump in screaming 'leave him alone' -
feels like entrapment.

I, for one, will be very interested to see if there is any mod shake-ups once this place is sold. I personally feel it would do the place some good and might bring back many valuable posters.

Just my opinion of course-
It sucks that i am worried that this opinion could send me the way of Mari, Towie, Ryan, and Foxy , but what the hell.

[BlackWidow]

That, my friend Ry, has always been the $64,000 question to me.

Ethan says "I won't post so much" "i won't start so many threads" blah blah -
they are his words and yet . . .

. . . then when he does "post so much" and "starts so many threads", people call him on it and the mods jump in screaming 'leave him alone' -
feels like entrapment.

I, for one, will be very interested to see if there is any mod shake-ups once this place is sold. I personally feel it would do the place some good and might bring back many valuable posters.

Just my opinion of course-
It sucks that i am worried that this opinion could send me the way of Mari, Towie, Ryan, and Foxy , but what the hell.

I think The Mod Squad do one hell of a job here. Not an easy job, folks!

[buckymcnix]

I think The Mod Squad do one hell of a job here. Not an easy job, folks!


I didn't say it was an easy job.

but sometimes it seems that all it takes is someone to complain and someone gets banned.
You know what i mean right andre?

[BlackWidow]

I didn't say it was an easy job.

but sometimes it seems that all it takes is someone to complain and someone gets banned.
You know what i mean right andre?

honestly..no. sorry.

[DavidMn]

I think we all know that. It still doesn't mean that it doesn't totally suck that longtime members who have contributed tremendously to this board are gone. And Ethan has taken punches for almost a year now and posts even more threads than ever, so I'm not quite sure why the need to protect him.I dont care for him either, I'm just trying to be careful what I say so I dont get banned too. LOL:laugh:

[face of glass]

MARIEKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:xoxo:
GERAAAAAAAAALD!!!!

That was a message from Mari as sent on her behalf by yours truly. You can feel free to give me my one strike now - you did the same to Gerald when he posted a message by CarneVaca on these boards after Carne had been banned. I'll wear my strike proudly. :nod:

[Johnny Stew]

It sucks that i am worried that this opinion could send me the way of Mari, Towie, Ryan, and Foxy , but what the hell.For the record (#1), and as should be evidenced by the rest of the thread, no one is in danger of being banned simply for voicing their opinion about the recent change.

You can feel free to give me my one strike now - you did the same to Gerald when he posted a message by CarneVaca on these boards after Carne had been banned. I'll wear my strike proudly. :nod:For the record (#2), in the instance of Gerald posting Carne's message, the main issue wasn't that he posted it, per se, but that he posted the contents of an email that he admitted he didn't have permission from the author to share.

I, for one, will be very interested to see if there is any mod shake-ups once this place is sold. I personally feel it would do the place some good and might bring back many valuable posters.For the record (#3), whatever the fate of the Ledge, I won't be back (I can already hear the rejoicing!).

I've had a good 7-year run as a mod (10 as a Ledgie!), but now it's time to focus on expanding my interests and horizons, taking care of my ailing mother, and being all mushy with my guy. :D

Whether or not the Ledge would be any different after a mod shake-up -- it's possible, but I doubt it. We've had something like 15 or 16 moderators over the years, and no one's ever been able to please everyone. Various folks didn't like all of the decisions of the first mods in '97/'98, they didn't like all of the decisions of the brand-new mods when we started in 2000, and they don't like all of the decisions of the current mods.

Of course, there are also plenty of people -- longtime Ledgies, lurkers, and "innocent bystanders" who prefer to stay away from the public drama -- who PM or email us privately and thank us for taking care of certain situations. Some might be surprised to learn that the private kudos typically outnumber the public brickbats -- even during times of big "controversies."

So it certainly balances. :)

[BlackWidow]

For the record (#1), and as should be evidenced by the rest of the thread, no one is in danger of being banned simply for voicing their opinion about the recent change.

For the record (#2), in the instance of Gerald posting Carne's message, the main issue wasn't that he posted it, per se, but that he posted the contents of an email that he admitted he didn't have permission from the author to share.

For the record (#3), whatever the fate of the Ledge, I won't be back (I can already hear the rejoicing!).

I've had a good 7-year run as a mod (10 as a Ledgie!), but now it's time to focus on expanding my interests and horizons, taking care of my ailing mother, and being all mushy with my guy. :D

Whether or not the Ledge would be any different after a mod shake-up -- it's possible, but I doubt it. We've had something like 15 or 16 moderators over the years, and no one's ever been able to please everyone. Various folks didn't like all of the decisions of the first mods in '97/'98, they didn't like all of the decisions of the brand-new mods when we started in 2000, and they don't like all of the decisions of the current mods.

Of course, there are also plenty of people -- longtime Ledgies, lurkers, and "innocent bystanders" who prefer to stay away from the public drama -- who PM or email us privately and thank us for taking care of certain situations. Some might be surprised to learn that the private kudos typically outnumber the public brickbats -- even during times of big "controversies."

So it certainly balances. :)

I wouldn't be surprised by that revelation at all. Certain cliques over estimate
their value on this board. Your imput and contribution here will be sorely missed....

[buckymcnix]

Certain cliques over estimate their value on this board.

Have you always been like this and I just didn't notice because you were being so nice to me, or is this a new side of you? Either way, I find it surprising. You are talking about the clique that rejected you and then you turned on all of them right?

[BlackWidow]

Have you always been like this and I just didn't notice because you were being so nice to me, or is this a new side of you? Either way, I find it surprising. You are talking about the clique that rejected you and then you turned on all of them right?

I have plenty of friends. I have never had any problem with you. There are always two sides to every story....Glad to see you back on The Ledge.

[irishgrl]

For the record (#1), and as should be evidenced by the rest of the thread, no one is in danger of being banned simply for voicing their opinion about the recent change.

For the record (#2), in the instance of Gerald posting Carne's message, the main issue wasn't that he posted it, per se, but that he posted the contents of an email that he admitted he didn't have permission from the author to share.

For the record (#3), whatever the fate of the Ledge, I won't be back (I can already hear the rejoicing!).

I've had a good 7-year run as a mod (10 as a Ledgie!), but now it's time to focus on expanding my interests and horizons, taking care of my ailing mother, and being all mushy with my guy. :D

Whether or not the Ledge would be any different after a mod shake-up -- it's possible, but I doubt it. We've had something like 15 or 16 moderators over the years, and no one's ever been able to please everyone. Various folks didn't like all of the decisions of the first mods in '97/'98, they didn't like all of the decisions of the brand-new mods when we started in 2000, and they don't like all of the decisions of the current mods.

Of course, there are also plenty of people -- longtime Ledgies, lurkers, and "innocent bystanders" who prefer to stay away from the public drama -- who PM or email us privately and thank us for taking care of certain situations. Some might be surprised to learn that the private kudos typically outnumber the public brickbats -- even during times of big "controversies."

So it certainly balances. :)
I'll miss you Stewie (Brian, right?) yez I will. :nod:

[irishgrl]

Have you always been like this and I just didn't notice because you were being so nice to me, or is this a new side of you? Either way, I find it surprising. You are talking about the clique that rejected you and then you turned on all of them right?
been like what, exactly? :shrug:

[buckymcnix]

been like what, exactly? :shrug:

well - since you ask . . .

in the middle of complimenting johnny stew he threw in a
Originally Posted by BlackWidow
Certain cliques over estimate their value on this board.

he just seems to be taunting 'the air' waiting for a response from someone with a comment like that. plus it almost feels like he is hiding the taunt in praise for the head mod.

in another thread, what seemed out of the blue to me was when he stated "some of the bitches around here have their" 'panties in a wad' or something - i paraphrase the end of it cos i'm not going back to get it exactly right. but the point is he seems to be looking for an argument.

both examples seemed more taunting and confrontational than i remember andre being. and though he isn't taunting anyone in particular, it certainly seems he is taunting "this certain clique" that he speaks of .

I got a different first impression of him when i first came around. I have no problem with him - i am just curious why the behaviour change is all.

does that help?

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

I caught up with this thread just a few minutes before I had to log out the other morning. I was really saddened by it to be honest. I’ve seen the site from a distance for a couple of years now and as someone in another thread said, there are cliques, clashes of personality here etc, as I’m sure occurs in many offices and factories across the world.

I came here initially because I love Fleetwood Mac but stayed because of many of the people who post here – even though many of you don’t know me. I really like the guys who post in the Lindsey thread – Shakin’up, Nikki, Madness, Brandon. They keep the interest going for me in my favourite member of the band. Equally I tend to enjoy the more current affairs posts that Chris and Suze post. Andre does my head in at times but fits in very well. And in that category are probably Irishgrl and Musicman. Jason (Strand) is pretty verbose (it justifies his fees I guess!) but very good value. In addition I always look out for Michelle, Carrie, Breton, Sara1998, Pip, JannieC, Estranged, Sarah amongst a host of other good people. Christine and Liam have also put plenty of energy into the board more recently.

So my point. I struggle with how we can have a ‘community’ without Michael and Ryan. They both contributed a great deal to this site and it is a lesser place in my opinion without them. I haven’t caught up with what they said to incur a ban but you only need to leaf through the threads in a number of forums to see what they added to The Ledge – post after post of great input.

In some ways the board has never really got over the incident a few months ago when a whole group got banned for putting a horse’s picture in their sig pics. I don’t want to re-open that debate, but from where I sit, the Moderators have some outstanding issues that need to be cleared up about that whole incident. For me that issue continues to fester away today and spoil the site.

Equally I can see how the moderators feel at the end of their tether at times. The chit chat thread is a monster and it must be difficult to manage. But I thought the religion debate the other day showed how we all are waking up to the fact that we need to moderate our behaviour. It was the right thing not to ban Liam and despite Brandon getting some flak I admire the way he encouraged Liam to change his post to avoid a ban. I suspect we have all learnt that we are at the end of the road and we need to behave with a bit more respect towards each other.

Maybe Ryan and Michael need to apologise, as Liam did, to whoever they offended. But I’d like to see them back. I don’t think it would undermine anyone’s credibility or authority to do so. I think the message about behaviour is clear and understood by all of us.

Now I have dragged myself across one of the most dangerous places in the world to post this so I hope that Johnny and colleagues will read it and maybe reflect on what I have said.

Stew

Pretty much sums up how I feel about all this. :wavey:

[shackin'up]

For the record (#2), in the instance of Gerald posting Carne's message, the main issue wasn't that he posted it, per se, but that he posted the contents of an email that he admitted he didn't have permission from the author to share.

....and I never got a strike for it. Just a warning. Have you stroke me, JohnnyStew?

:laugh:

[irishgrl]

well - since you ask . . .

in the middle of complimenting johnny stew he threw in a
Originally Posted by BlackWidow
Certain cliques over estimate their value on this board.

he just seems to be taunting 'the air' waiting for a response from someone with a comment like that. plus it almost feels like he is hiding the taunt in praise for the head mod.

in another thread, what seemed out of the blue to me was when he stated "some of the bitches around here have their" 'panties in a wad' or something - i paraphrase the end of it cos i'm not going back to get it exactly right. but the point is he seems to be looking for an argument.

both examples seemed more taunting and confrontational than i remember andre being. and though he isn't taunting anyone in particular, it certainly seems he is taunting "this certain clique" that he speaks of .

I got a different first impression of him when i first came around. I have no problem with him - i am just curious why the behaviour change is all.

does that help?
yes, I appreciate the explanation. Ive seen Andre get attacked on this board for seemingly no reason and if he's airing an opinion, I think he's got the right to say what he said under the circumstances.

Andre is one of the nicest folks on here and I personally have not ever seen him go after anyone, but I do think he has the right to defend himself dont you?

[BlackWidow]

I am not going to defend anything.
This is not my board or my rules. I am sure we could all go through and pull
all kinds of quotes out of the past (out of context) - and put a spin on just about anything. I will decline from doing so. I am not responsible for other's
words or actions. I have always enjoyed The Ledge and all of the friendships
I have entertained. I am my own person. None of us can be everyone's cup of tea - such is life. Any issues of banning should be taken up with the folks who made that decision all on their own.

[mikeschmike]

I am not going to defend anything.
This is not my board or my rules. I am sure we could all go through and pull
all kinds of quotes out of the past (out of context) - and put a spin on just about anything. I will decline from doing so. I am not responsible for other's
words or actions. I have always enjoyed The Ledge and all of the friendships
I have entertained. I am my own person. None of us can be everyone's cup of tea - such is life. Any issues of banning should be taken up with the folks who made that decision all on their own.

This from the guy who has the nerve to call other people two faced. You're a lucky lucky man Andre, and you know it. If they saw some of the vicious **** you posted here about some people (that is hateful no matter WHAT context it's in) you would have been outta here a long time ago.

[irishgrl]

I am not going to defend anything.
This is not my board or my rules. I am sure we could all go through and pull
all kinds of quotes out of the past (out of context) - and put a spin on just about anything. I will decline from doing so. I am not responsible for other's
words or actions. I have always enjoyed The Ledge and all of the friendships
I have entertained. I am my own person. None of us can be everyone's cup of tea - such is life. Any issues of banning should be taken up with the folks who made that decision all on their own.
Andre, perhaps I spoke out of turn (guess Im the one thats over enthusiastic heh heh) Im sorry.

[BlackWidow]

Andre, perhaps I spoke out of turn (guess Im the one thats over enthusiastic heh heh) Im sorry.

You know "I love you!".;)

[BlackWidow]

I'm not laughing, crying, trying to taunt or dreaming of any wanton Ledgie luxury. Here goes.


I have a problem with this, Stew. It's like The Ledge is a piece of virtual real estate - say, San Juan Capistrano - and a legal loophole's used to off some of the trademark sparrows before the sale. But only the loudest, most obnoxious ones that pester or peck at people.

If you want to curb bullying, that's fine - but it appears you're putting certain people in the crosshairs and selectively enforcing the rules more than ever. Believe me when I say that I fully understand both just how ****ty and how good Ledgies can be. Plus the mods must be tired of the duplicity, immaturity, etc. that still happens away from the playground or cafeteria. A private board, yes, but hopefully you'll agree the precedents set are rather scary.

Great post, Stew part 2. There can be a lot of beauty to a "community" like this along with the beast in that everyone brings something to the table. It can be a fun hangout. Imagine the laughs shared by people who've met on this site and hung out at concerts or whatever. That said, the drama's been something to see over the past 3 years - just look at how a member went from partying in Vegas and having the video posted here to being banned and slandered for stuff relating to his offshoot message board.

I'll direct you to this thread (http://www.ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=30067) where The Tower expressed admiration for his friends in the ledgie community since it reminded me of your post. These people became a mostly friendly clique a lot like the one you were part of, and I imagine some of them left partly due to the drama. Tower was like The Ledge's snarky and sarcastic gay elder. Won't be the same without his passion, humor, wisdom or knowledge (political and musical). But oh well, Towie went out on top.




Well then, Andre and ladies, accept my apologies for acting out. Meant to bow out gracefully months ago but ended up staying since it's been one hell of a year. So I enjoyed being silly online. To piggyback off your post, Andre, the same personalities probably pop up on thousands of sites and all of us change with the flames.

It's all good, baby...:xoxo:
I hope you do stay for a long time...

[Rickypt]

:distress::distress::distress:

From: bilzabob
Goodbye Baby for Michael, Ryan, Mari and Towie - "may all your bannings be temporary."


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[JazmenFlowers]

^^^

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/traurig/sad-smiley-043.gif

[BTFLCHLD]

rickypt banned? :distress: :blob2:

[golden braid]

rickypt banned? :distress:

Yes he is. :(

[DavidMn]

I'll ask again, who exactly is in charge right now? I dunno if Johnny(Brian) is still around or if someone else is. It's all very confusing.:shrug:

[SuzeQuze]

I'll ask again, who exactly is in charge right now? I dunno if Johnny(Brian) is still around or if someone else is. It's all very confusing.:shrug:

He's still here but not able to devote as much time due to a family illness.

[madformac]

Why such upset and bad feeling when members are banned?

They know the situation, the rules, and yet they still choose to provoke and in cases, inflame situations... This is a forum principally to provide debate and discussion of the band Fleetwood Mac. Anything else, such as the chit chat forum is a privilidge and as such members must use decorum and respect. Aything contray to that is a gross disrespect of the owners of this site and, indeed, other members.

Any member found treating these simple principles with disrespect must be made an example of and banned. Its very easy to moderate your own posts before hitting enter. There are too many juvenile posts and many, even, senior members should know better.

If you can't moderate your own behaviour then its better you don't post here. Otherwise the moderators of this site will make the decision for you...

[carrie721]

Why such upset and bad feeling when members are banned?

because the rules are haphazardly enforced and there is little to no consistent rationale involved when strikes/bans are handed out.

[madformac]

because the rules are haphazardly enforced and there is little to no consistent rationale involved when strikes/bans are handed out.

Yeah, ok, I accept the inconsistency. Which may be down to the fact that maybe the choice of moderators in the past was not correct.

But don't forget that they are not paid to do this. Not everyone can switch off their personal opinions when giving a decision. In an ideal world they could, but we don't live in one of those. Not everybody can remain clinical and emotionless with a decision. I can personally and I have many times, but I'm not a mod and don't wish to be one.

But, inconsitencies and good/bad moderating aside. It's not our board to do as we like. SOME form of moderation needs to be applied and I'm sure they do their best, even if it is not entirely logical at times. Bottom line is it's their decision, regardless if we agree or not. The best way to avoid getting into a situation that has the possibility for a ban is to remain polite and respectful of other peoples opinion, even if you disagree strongly. :nod::)

[madformac]

MARIEKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:xoxo:

She's fine dude. I had lunch with her a couple of weeks back..

(Just to show I get on with both sides of this place, as I regularly talk to Carne too. :thumbsup: )

[irishgrl]

because the rules are haphazardly enforced and there is little to no consistent rationale involved when strikes/bans are handed out.
why arent you a mod? perhaps your bias is showing?

[carrie721]

why arent you a mod? perhaps your bias is showing?

don't try to start **** with me.

[irishgrl]

moi? au contraire....merely wondering out loud as it were :shrug:

[SuzeQuze]

because the rules are haphazardly enforced and there is little to no consistent rationale involved when strikes/bans are handed out.

We asked everyone not to pick on [a certain member] over and over. Two bans were a result of that, very cut and dried. Also, it seems like it isn't consistent but it is. We don't have a transparent process for bans, we don't communicate who got banned or why. So all you get is hearsay on that. When we try to explain our rationale no one wants to hear it, they just want to stay mad.

And for anyone who thinks it sucks here, why do you remain? And why is it so hard to be civil to one another? I just don't get it. Who cares if you don't agree with someone or don't like them, just move on. Focus on those you do like.

[irishgrl]

point taken.

[madformac]

And for anyone who thinks it sucks here, why do you remain? And why is it so hard to be civil to one another? I just don't get it. Who cares if you don't agree with someone or don't like them, just move on. Focus on those you do like.

My point entirely.. Just put a little differently! :lol::lol:

[chiliD]

We asked everyone not to pick on Ethan over and over.

Funny (as in, "ironic", not "ha-ha"), I don't recall that one...EVER. I pretty much have been here everyday for, oh, a decade or so. :shrug:

[SuzeQuze]

Funny (as in, "ironic", not "ha-ha"), I don't recall that one...EVER. I pretty much have been here everyday for, oh, a decade or so. :shrug:

Okay, so not everyone. You wouldn't have to worry about that since it's not your style to taunt anyway. I thought it was obvious who we were talking about but I guess not.

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpost.php?p=648497&postcount=1

[chiliD]

Well, ok...I remember THAT post that you linked to, but Ethan wasn't mentioned by name, so that's what threw me about your post. ;) :lol:

Ok, now I'll go back to my corner and not bother anyone the rest of the day. :o

[SuzeQuze]

Well, ok...I remember THAT post that you linked to, but ***** wasn't mentioned by name, so that's what threw me about your post. ;) :lol:

Ok, now I'll go back to my corner and not bother anyone the rest of the day. :o

Yeah, I'm getting old and forgot we didn't mention him by name. :o

[madformac]

Yeah, I'm getting old and forgot we didn't mention him by name. :o

Don't worry Suze, when you and I reach ChiliD's age then we have to worry!!!! :p:p :thumbsup: lol

[chiliD]

Don't worry Suze, when you and I reach ChiliD's age then we have to worry!!!! :p:p :thumbsup: lol

HEY!!!:mad::shocked:

[SuzeQuze]

HEY!!!:mad::shocked:

I think he was on the Stella Artois last nite. :lol:

[madformac]

HEY!!!:mad::shocked:

I'm just messin with ya! :p:D

[madformac]

I think he was on the Stella Artois last nite. :lol:

Two nights in a row actually.... I'm in "training"....... ;):]:lol:

[SuzeQuze]

Two nights in a row actually.... I'm in "training"....... ;):]:lol:

Just try to keep up! JK, I'm in rehab from last week.

[madformac]

Just try to keep up! JK, I'm in rehab from last week.

Yeah, Amy Winehouse told me last week she can't keep up either... She doesn't know how you do it!!! JK :lol::D

[SuzeQuze]

Yeah, Amy Winehouse told me last week she can't keep up either... She doesn't know how you do it!!! JK :lol::D

Oh snap. Careful, cuz not unlike her, I beat people up!

[madformac]

Oh snap. Careful, cuz not unlike her, I beat people up!

Yeah, I've seen your muscles!!!! :laugh::laugh:

[mylittledemon]

Maybe Ryan and Michael need to apologise, as Liam did, to whoever they offended. But I’d like to see them back.



I never wanted to see Liam banned. I gave him multiple chances to retract what he said. He refused, and continued to insult. I apologized several times for things that I said that were misconstrued, or taken the wrong way. The kid never apologized, not even in the slightest...not that I expected it. But it would've been the adult thing to do. To say "hey I respect your stance, and I have mine." And I have done that with several Ledgies over the years. But, I support the mods decision to give Liam a warning. It has since, seemingly, put him in check.

[Dreamz19]

rickypt banned? :distress: :blob2:

:shocked: I haven't been reading chit chat or been on much so I am really late. I am very sorry to hear he got banned. I always liked reading his views on the current events and he seemed like such a nice guy.

[sasja]

Ditto, Courtney. I miss him much. :(

[BTFLCHLD]

Ryan's (RickyPT) banning should be reviewed to consider the reinstatement of his membership.

[buckymcnix]

Ryan's (RickyPT) banning should be reviewed to consider the reinstatement of his membership.

I totally agree.

Michelej - what would be the best way to approach you on something like this? Prefer to discuss out in open or PMs?

[carrie721]

^ i agree as well and would like to add mari to the list.

[BTFLCHLD]

and towie. :wavey:

[JazmenFlowers]

I totally agree.

Michelej - what would be the best way to approach you on something like this? Prefer to discuss out in open or PMs?
yep yep

is there a petition we can sign? :D

[sasja]

I agree as well, and would like to add my vote!

[DrummerDeanna]

I agree as Ryan (RickyPT) was completely provoked.

[skcin]

Should we start a new thread about this, maybe in Chitchat? I'm just wondering if these requests will get lost here, many people don't come to this forum much. I agree that some of the banned should be allowed back, namely Rickypt & Tower & Mari. It's not like they were total assh*les the whole time they were here & everyone had finally had enough. It's a shame they're gone because of one mistake.

[Stew_Matthews]

Should we start a new thread about this, maybe in Chitchat? I'm just wondering if these requests will get lost here, many people don't come to this forum much. I agree that some of the banned should be allowed back, namely Rickypt & Tower & Mari. It's not like they were total assh*les the whole time they were here & everyone had finally had enough. It's a shame they're gone because of one mistake.

They should all be allowed back and all the members here should start with a clean slate imo. It is unhealthy to start picking and choosing who's coming back, particularly 'by committee'. I do agree however with everyone who has posted that Rickypt's banning is beyond any sense of reason - it is. I never thought Michael was an assh*le when around - I thought very much the opposite about him and I miss him being here.

[skcin]

I'm starting a thread in ChitChat

[mikeschmike]

Isn't an announcement regarding the one strike policy being lifted a little misleading? The announcement title says that the ban is being lifted. The first paragraph says that the forum rules are being changed, the second paragraph says that the policy is not being lifted, but relaxed. Then to top it off, the last paragraph says that no one is promised three strikes? :confused:

That is very confusing and very misleading. Why have policies in the first place if they are not going to be enforced equally to all members in all forums? :shrug:

Also, any updates on reinstating the membership of the people listed above? This never seemed to go anywhere and I hope you all didn't forget.

[mikeschmike]

Could I get an answer please?

There is little to no activity going on around here so I know some mod or admin has to have seen this post over the last 48 hours.

[ThePenguin]

Could I get an answer please?

There is little to no activity going on around here so I know some mod or admin has to have seen this post over the last 48 hours.

Like Stevie, I don't think I would have made a very good waitress. That's why I never tried to be one or to enter any form of customer service.

Judging from this post and emails I have received, some members seem to be under the mistaken impression that we are obligated to answer their questions and to do so within a prescribed period of time. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

I don't work for this site, I own it. I don't profit from it. I pay for it. If I do not like the surly, sarcastic tone of a post or email I receive, I'm going to ignore it.

The moderators are Fleetwood Mac fans who like to come here to talk about the band. Since they were here for a few minutes or hours a day anyway, I asked them to help me regulate the content of this board and they agreed. That doesn't mean they answer to the people who post here. If they make decisions about posts, threads or forum members, they'll probably explain them. But they aren't obligated to do so. When it came to the "Horror" thread, Jannie asked me if she should post a reason for deleting it and I told her it wasn't necessary. I thought that people would intuitively understand that it was removed for content and that we need say no more on the subject. I was wrong.

When it comes down to it, I'm not running the Penguin as a microcosm of a democratic society. I don't think you have any inalienable rights when it comes to this website. I'm not standing in the middle of Ellis Island with an upraised torch in hand beckoning, "Bring me your poor, your weary and your poo eaters."

I posted the FAQ as a general guideline, but the truth is, no one who has a post deleted, who is suspended or who is banned is going to think the action was deserved. No one is going to think the action was fair. It's impossible to be objective in these matters and no one is going to agree with an action they deem adverse to their interests, no matter how the justification for that action is explained to them. That being the case, if you tell yourself that the only reason action was taken is because I don't like you and I don't want you here, that'll work too. That's as good a reason as any, so just throw the FAQ rules out the window, if you think they're worthless.

I'm not trying to make this site welcome to one and all. If you don't feel welcome, don't post. If you don't like the rules, don't post. If you don't understand the rules, don't post. If you think the moderators are biased, don't post. If you don't like the perceived favoritism, don't post. If you don't want to be here, don't be.

[mikeschmike]

Like Stevie, I don't think I would have made a very good waitress. That's why I never tried to be one or to enter any form of customer service.

And the world breathes a collective sigh of relief!

Judging from this post and emails I have received, some members seem to be under the mistaken impression that we are obligated to answer their questions and to do so within a prescribed period of time. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

I suppose a webcam jackoff session would greatly boost my response time too.

I don't work for this site, I own it. I don't profit from it. I pay for it. If I do not like the surly, sarcastic tone of a post or email I receive, I'm going to ignore it.

The moderators are Fleetwood Mac fans who like to come here to talk about the band. Since they were here for a few minutes or hours a day anyway, I asked them to help me regulate the content of this board and they agreed. That doesn't mean they answer to the people who post here. If they make decisions about posts, threads or forum members, they'll probably explain them. But they aren't obligated to do so. When it came to the "Horror" thread, Jannie asked me if she should post a reason for deleting it and I told her it wasn't necessary. I thought that people would intuitively understand that it was removed for content and that we need say no more on the subject. I was wrong.

When it comes down to it, I'm not running the Penguin as a microcosm of a democratic society. I don't think you have any inalienable rights when it comes to this website. I'm not standing in the middle of Ellis Island with an upraised torch in hand beckoning, "Bring me your poor, your weary and your poo eaters."

Okay...um. I was just asking about the policy and any updates on the banned numbers. The idea of you as a giant patina woman beckoning immigrants into this world of ~magick~ never occured to me.

I posted the FAQ as a general guideline, but the truth is, no one who has a post deleted, who is suspended or who is banned is going to think the action was deserved. No one is going to think the action was fair. It's impossible to be objective in these matters and no one is going to agree with an action they deem adverse to their interests, no matter how the justification for that action is explained to them. That being the case, if you tell yourself that the only reason action was taken is because I don't like you and I don't want you here, that'll work too. That's as good a reason as any, so just throw the FAQ rules out the window, if you think they're worthless

I'm not trying to make this site welcome to one and all. If you don't feel welcome, don't post. If you don't like the rules, don't post. If you don't understand the rules, don't post. If you think the moderators are biased, don't post. If you don't like the perceived favoritism, don't post. If you don't want to be here, don't be.

Christ almighty we get it! It's your house and your nintendo, so if we don't like the way you play it we don't have to stay. I was asking about an explanation to a poorly written amendment to an already ridiculous policy. Related to that, people have been asking about the reinstatement of RickyPT because of the horribly unfair circumstances that got him banned. It seemed to go by unnoticed and I didn't think the issue should be ignored.

As downhill as this place has gone, this was certainly not an enticing offer to stick around and see the developments. This is pretty much it for me, so ban or delete...whatever you people do. Obviously since you have no time or desire to respond politely to a group of people (but...no perceived favoritism, right?) I should step off before it sinks any lower.

[ThePenguin]

It seems to me that if you put more time into following the general guidelines, rather than parsing the language outlining the penalties for violating those guidelines, there would be no need for this exchange.

The only people who are obsessed with how strikes, suspensions and deletions accrue are those who consistently flout the rules in the first place, investing a great amount of energy and thought into circumventing them.

They also spend an inordinate time worrying that other posters are getting better treatment than they are, rather than trying to avoid needing "treatment" in the first place.

Like everyone else, the moderators and I are here mainly for Fleetwood Mac, not to play police or to respond repeatedly to concerted complaints from people who have an unending supply of them.

While it may make the forum boring for many, I am very glad to have such posters gone.

[danax6]

Hey Mikey, since you're now a mod, can you inform me about the status of RickyPT's reinstatement?

Thanks.

[danax6]

Woops, my mistake. For a minute there he came up as a moderator. I see now that he's been banned. What a shame.

I'd still like an answer to my question though.

[buckymcnix]

This was my question 2 months ago about ryan's coming back -


Michelej - what would be the best way to approach you on something like this? Prefer to discuss out in open or PMs?


I don't believe I was snarky. Or rude.

It certainly doesn't make one feel welcome.

and from what i have seen in this thread, that means i should go away. :distress:

.

I'm not trying to make this site welcome to one and all. If you don't feel welcome, don't post. If you don't like the rules, don't post. If you don't understand the rules, don't post. If you think the moderators are biased, don't post. If you don't like the perceived favoritism, don't post. If you don't want to be here, don't be.

am i on some list of Paula's Cronies or Carrie's Army or something and that's all it takes to be ignored around here?

[ThePenguin]

Pushing the elevator button again and again will not make it come any faster.

As both of you know, I sent Ryan a rather lengthy email about reinstatement some time ago and, if and when circumstances change, I'll send him another email. At that point, if he still wants to return he can.

I'm not providing updates.

[danax6]

Pushing the elevator button again and again will not make it come any faster.Good point. But then where is the staircase? ;)

As both of you know, I sent Ryan a rather lengthy email about reinstatement some time ago and,
Sorry, no, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for telling me.

[buckymcnix]

Pushing the elevator button again and again will not make it come any faster.



:laugh: - I wasn't pushing the button again, I was telling vanessa that the elevator was broken. :laugh: