Barry Bonds, Home Run King?

[irishgrl]

so now that Bonds has beat Hank Aaron's record, I have a question: If the ongoing investigation into his steroid use (I cant bring myself to say "alleged")
should confirm Barry used steroids, would that invalidate his Home Run hits?

After all, we know Hank didnt use steroids right? and his record is pure. I just have my doubts about Barry, and I'd like to see the steroid enhanced home runs erased. (on the off chance that he's cleared: congrats with a small "c" Barry. hoo ray.)

:mad:

[ryan8472]

If the ongoing investigation into his steroid use (I cant bring myself to say "alleged")
should confirm Barry used steroids, would that invalidate his Home Run hits?
No.

After all, we know Hank didnt use steroids right?
How do you know? There were never tests back then. I dont think he did, but hey, you never know.


I just have my doubts about Barry, and I'd like to see the steroid enhanced home runs erased.
If they did that, they would have to erase every homerun ever hit by anyone who ever used steroids. What if, by chance, those homeruns decided an important game, way back in like, 1999? You'd be invalidating that game all together. What's done is done. Who cares if Bonds used steroids. I bet anything that nobody would care if he hadn't broken the record.

[DavidMn]

I feel that Barry Bonds is a disgrace to all that have put on major legue uniforms and played the game the right way, HONESTLY without having to use performance enhancing drugs. DO I have proof personally that he used steroids? no, but the MULTIPLE sources that have stated he has is good enough for me. If it was just one or 2 guys saying this I could understand. I wouldnt cross the street to see Barry Bonds play, and as far as Im concerned this record still belongs to Hank Aaron. The way I see it he'el get his payback when he gets 20% of the hall of fame vote like Mark McGwire did last year. He will and should NEVER see the inside of the hall.

[irishgrl]

No.


How do you know? There were never tests back then. I dont think he did, but hey, you never know.



If they did that, they would have to erase every homerun ever hit by anyone who ever used steroids. What if, by chance, those homeruns decided an important game, way back in like, 1999? You'd be invalidating that game all together. What's done is done. Who cares if Bonds used steroids. I bet anything that nobody would care if he hadn't broken the record.
I care, and always did. Barry is a fraud. So, his homeruns stay in place? Well, if he's been found to have been using steroids, then I will have the satisfaction of knowing his record is TAINTED. :nod:

[shackin'up]

Whatever. Dope or no dope. Hitting a homerun has NOTHING to do with strength, it's about technique, timing, feel, guts, anticipation and balance. You don't get that through drugs. Give the guy a break. If he hits them so incredibly often, he deserves some credit, don't he?

[GODDESS6]

he does deserve a little credit, but the steroid cloud has tainted the thrill for me a tad~

[JWS]

Likely, a lot of the pitchers he hit homeruns off of, in the late 90's, were also on steroids. So, kind of a balance there.

[ryan8472]

Whatever. Dope or no dope. Hitting a homerun has NOTHING to do with strength, it's about technique, timing, feel, guts, anticipation and balance. You don't get that through drugs. Give the guy a break. If he hits them so incredibly often, he deserves some credit, don't he?

Yes. IAWTC


The point I was trying to make earlier though, is that we're making Bonds a scapegoat for all steroid accusations. The only reason anyone wants Bonds' records to be erased or tainted is because he holds some of the most cherished records in the game. So what. You can't go back through every single game he has played in the last 22 years and decide which games he played in were a result of steroid use and which weren't. It's impossible. Because then you would have to go back and look at every game ever played and foolishly try to determine if steroids affected the outcome. What if Aaron Boone used steroids when he hit the HR against the Red Sox? What if Robin Ventura used steroids way back in 2004 when he won the division for the Dodgers? What if David Ortiz was enhancing his performance during the ALCS of 2004? You could go on forever. But if you do that, you'd be questioning the outcome of every season for every team for the past 20 years.

[SuzeQuze]

I'm cynical on this as I think many players likely use/have used. So I say let him have the record.

[Sarah]

I don't really care if he uses them or not. A lot of other players use them and they aren't breaking the record, now, are they?

It's not like history will go down forgetting about the steroids, so don't feel all "cheated" about letting him keep the record. It will always be like "steroids helped him break the record" whether they actually did or not.

:shrug:

[Rickypt]

I don't really care if he uses them or not. A lot of other players use them and they aren't breaking the record, now, are they?

It's not like history will go down forgetting about the steroids, so don't feel all "cheated" about letting him keep the record. It will always be like "steroids helped him break the record" whether they actually did or not.

:shrug:

I agree with Sarah! And Ryan.

First, I am angry because I was at Monday's night game and wanted to see some history and pretty fireworks. :mad: 24 hours too early. :mad:

Second, I don't like Barry Bonds as a person very much, especially since he threw his teammate Mark Sweeney under a train during the offseason by saying he (Sweeney) put amphetamines in Barry's locker. So, when he hit 756 last night, it wasn't as thrilling as I thought it would be. I'm glad it's over with so the poor Giants can move on to the post-Bonds era.

But, the fact remains that he is one of the greatest baseball players of all time and the record stands. He is part of the steroid era. He hit home runs against pitchers who were on steroids. As shackin' up said, it takes much more than power to hit home runs. To call him a fraud shows complete lack of knowledge about baseball.

And Davidmn--if you think your beloved 2004 Red Sox was steroid-free and pure, then keep on dreaming. I am sick of everyone singling out Bonds while celebrating their own teams and favorite players' accomplishments.

[GypsySorcerer]

I am not a Barry Bonds fan. He's been a known jerk to his teammates, and just generally, I think he's an ass. But he has become the whipping post for the steroid scandal. Selig (another ass) turned a blind eye to the steroid problem because people were coming out in droves to see balls fly out of the park. He deserves a big chunk of the blame here.

Bonds is a great player, steroids or no steroids. He is a first-ballot hall-of-famer in my book, based on his accomplishments pre-2000 alone.

Bonds is an unlikeable guy, and thusly an easy target.

[ryan8472]

I care, and always did. Barry is a fraud. So, his homeruns stay in place? Well, if he's been found to have been using steroids, then I will have the satisfaction of knowing his record is TAINTED. :nod:

Kind of like how Pete Rose's career is tainted by gambling? Please.

[DavidMn]

And Davidmn--if you think your beloved 2004 Red Sox was steroid-free and pure, then keep on dreaming. I am sick of everyone singling out Bonds while celebrating their own teams and favorite players' accomplishments.Ok fair enough point. But I think that one of the most important things sports has its its integrity. Look at the NBA ref scandal and how that's making the NBA look so bad. People want records and games played to be legitimate. And I dont think in any way that what Bonds has done is on the up and up. I think, like I said before, that ALL of these "Steroid era" players will face their judgement when it comes time for them to be eligible for the hall of fame. ANd if Mark McGwire is any indication, then any and all of these guys who cheated will get theirs then.

[ryan8472]

The only thing is, I don't think all of those guys are half as dumb as Mark McGuire (and Sammy Sosa for that matter). Even if they DID use steroids, we will never know for sure. So I think it's best that we let it go, and accept that lots of players used steroids. It became part of the game.

[darklinensuit]

I'm not a fan of any athlete whose personality and integrity I don't respect, no matter the achievements in the arena. Sorry, Barry.

- Jake

[irishgrl]

Whatever. Dope or no dope. Hitting a homerun has NOTHING to do with strength, it's about technique, timing, feel, guts, anticipation and balance. You don't get that through drugs. Give the guy a break. If he hits them so incredibly often, he deserves some credit, don't he?
so if he had all that going for him, why resort to steroids? because he WASNT ENUFF WITHOUT THEM. He gets NO SLACK from me.

[irishgrl]

Yes. IAWTC


The point I was trying to make earlier though, is that we're making Bonds a scapegoat for all steroid accusations. The only reason anyone wants Bonds' records to be erased or tainted is because he holds some of the most cherished records in the game. So what. You can't go back through every single game he has played in the last 22 years and decide which games he played in were a result of steroid use and which weren't. It's impossible. Because then you would have to go back and look at every game ever played and foolishly try to determine if steroids affected the outcome. What if Aaron Boone used steroids when he hit the HR against the Red Sox? What if Robin Ventura used steroids way back in 2004 when he won the division for the Dodgers? What if David Ortiz was enhancing his performance during the ALCS of 2004? You could go on forever. But if you do that, you'd be questioning the outcome of every season for every team for the past 20 years.
Thats not MY objection...he's consistently DODGED or DENIED using them. At least Mark was up front about it and retired. HIM, I respect.

[irishgrl]

Kind of like how Pete Rose's career is tainted by gambling? Please.
apples and oranges ryan. using steroids to play is a whole nother ball game than playing poker aside from the game.

[irishgrl]

Ok fair enough point. But I think that one of the most important things sports has its its integrity. Look at the NBA ref scandal and how that's making the NBA look so bad. People want records and games played to be legitimate. And I dont think in any way that what Bonds has done is on the up and up. I think, like I said before, that ALL of these "Steroid era" players will face their judgement when it comes time for them to be eligible for the hall of fame. ANd if Mark McGwire is any indication, then any and all of these guys who cheated will get theirs then.
Agreed. :nod:

[JWS]

Thats not MY objection...he's consistently DODGED or DENIED using them. At least Mark was up front about it and retired. HIM, I respect.

Bonds has acknowledged using the "cream" and the "clear":(

[irishgrl]

Bonds has acknowledged using the "cream" and the "clear":(
what does that mean?

[GypsySorcerer]

Bonds has acknowledged using the "cream" and the "clear":(

He denies knowingly using steroids. I've never heard him outright admit anything. :shrug: And Mary, "the cream" and "the clear" are nicknames for two popular types of steroids.

[irishgrl]

He denies knowingly using steroids. I've never heard him outright admit anything. :shrug: And Mary, "the cream" and "the clear" are nicknames for two popular types of steroids.
so, is he admitting or not?

[GypsySorcerer]

so, is he admitting or not?

He told the grand jury "I've never knowingly used steroids." Make of that what you will.

[JWS]

He told the grand jury "I've never knowingly used steroids." Make of that what you will.

Bonds said he thought he was using "flaxseed oil", not a steroid.:shrug: Sounds like BS to me.

[Sarah]

maybe it's just me, but i feel like the government should start looking into more important things than what people put into their own bodies. :mad:

[Rickypt]

s He gets NO SLACK from me.

I'm sure he's really sad to hear that. :(

[Rickypt]

Thats not MY objection...he's consistently DODGED or DENIED using them. At least Mark was up front about it and retired. HIM, I respect.

McGwire has never admitted to using steroids. Even if he did, I don't understand your thinking process. You respect someone who cheated (in your eyes) as long as they admit it?

You also don't seem to know much about the Pete Rose/gambling scandal because it isn't about playing poker.

[JWS]

maybe it's just me, but i feel like the government should start looking into more important things than what people put into their own bodies. :mad:

It's only just begun. Bush appointed former Sen George Mitchell to launch an investigation into the whole baseball steroid scandal. It could all blow up over the winter.

[emfan2377]

At age 34 Bonds had 411 home runs over 13 seasons. He's now 43, and in the last 9 years hit 345, and had an injury shortened season where he hit only 5.

I find it odd that he suddenly powered up, rather than having a slow decline in power like most other power hitters in their mid to late thirties. He was juiced right along with the pitchers he faced, and the balls he hit.

[Musicman408]

I will never in a million years look at him as the home run king. NEVER!!!

[irishgrl]

McGwire has never admitted to using steroids. Even if he did, I don't understand your thinking process. You respect someone who cheated (in your eyes) as long as they admit it?

You also don't seem to know much about the Pete Rose/gambling scandal because it isn't about playing poker.
admitted. I dont know much about Pete Rose gambling scandal.

Im sure Bonds could care less what I think of him. However, Im not alone, and in toto, Im sure Bonds must realize that he's not appreciated like he wishes he were. However, illogical as you may think it, I admire Mark McGwire, always have.

[Musicman408]

I haven't read through this whole thread to know exactly what has been said about Mark McGuire, but when he was testifying before congress, when asked about stroid use, he said "I am not here to talk about the past." Which, I take it as, "Yeah, I did steroids." If I were being asked if I ever took steroids, and I didn't, I would be singing to the mountains "Heck no I didn't."

Anyway, just my little tidbit. Oh yeah, like I said earlier, I hate Barry Bonds.:nod:

[irishgrl]

{{hugs Ethan}}

[JWS]

I haven't read through this whole thread to know exactly what has been said about Mark McGuire, but when he was testifying before congress, when asked about stroid use, he said "I am not here to talk about the past." Which, I take it as, "Yeah, I did steroids." If I were being asked if I ever took steroids, and I didn't, I would be singing to the mountains "Heck no I didn't."

Anyway, just my little tidbit. Oh yeah, like I said earlier, I hate Barry Bonds.:nod:

Mark McGuire took Andronestenedione, an over-the-counter dietary supplement. No prescription required and perfectly legal in 1998. Bonds has admitted to the "cream" and the "clear", known steroids.

[carrie721]

maybe it's just me, but i feel like the government should start looking into more important things than what people put into their own bodies. :mad:

jesus, i know! those congressional hearings were a joke.

[GypsySorcerer]

Mark McGuire took Andronestenedione, an over-the-counter dietary supplement. No prescription required and perfectly legal in 1998. Bonds has admitted to the "cream" and the "clear", known steroids.

I'd bet pretty good money that McGwire was using more than just Andro. And this is coming from a huge Cardinals fan that used to have a poster of him on my wall in 1998.

[JWS]

I'd bet pretty good money that McGwire was using more than just Andro. And this is coming from a huge Cardinals fan that used to have a poster of him on my wall in 1998.

You're probably right. Maybe some day McGuire will write a "tell-all" book like Jose Canseco and come clean.

[GypsySorcerer]

^^^ Speaking of Canseco, he supposedly is working on another book. He claims he has "evidence" against A-Rod, though he declined to elaborate.

Last thing I heard on McGwire is that he wants to join the seniors' golf tour when he's old enough.

[JWS]

^^^ Speaking of Canseco, he supposedly is working on another book. He claims he has "evidence" against A-Rod, though he declined to elaborate.

Last thing I heard on McGwire is that he wants to join the seniors' golf tour when he's old enough.

I see Canseco occassionally at the LA sports club where I work out. He is HUGE. I think he is still doing steroids. :( He moved here to launch a movie career.

[irishgrl]

Mark McGuire took Andronestenedione, an over-the-counter dietary supplement. No prescription required and perfectly legal in 1998. Bonds has admitted to the "cream" and the "clear", known steroids.
Thanks for that bit of info.

[Musicman408]

I see Canseco occassionally at the LA sports club where I work out. He is HUGE. I think he is still doing steroids. :( He moved here to launch a movie career.

Argh that is sickening. (is there a barf smilie?)

[irishgrl]

Argh that is sickening. (is there a barf smilie?)
there is! Annnnnnnnnd, I didnt save it to photobucket! oops!

on edit, I found this:

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/wuerg/vomit-smiley-015.gif