Lindsey's Guitar Playing - Live v. Studio

[Peestie]

[I don't remember any threads similar to this, but if we have had then sorry!]

Lindsey's guitar styles are very different when he's playing live and in the studio. To me his studio stuff has always seemed very "clean" and his live stuff is "dirty".

I'm talking mostly about his lead guitar approach here. His lead stuff on OOTC sounds very crisp to me, but then you contrast that with solos like GYOW, ISA and Come on stage which are much more of the "tear the guitar apart" attitude.

At the minute I don't have a preference, though I think I would normally sway toward the live stuff. He can throw so much angst or emotion in to those solos that I just love them so much. There's something about the that just completely connects with me (though there's is something about just about all his work that connects with me emotionally which is why he's my favourite artist). Having said that, his live lead guitar style can be very sloppy. He's far from being a technically great guitarist. Not that that even matter because Yngwie Malmsteen is a more technically proficient guitarist than Clapton, but Clapton has the advantage of being able to pack his playing with emotion that people can connect with, making his a better guitarist IMO.

Because of these big (IMO) stylistic differences I was wondering if anyone likes one more than the other or has any comments on either style (because we don't have discussions/arguments about his guitar playing enough :p ) Anyone even agree with me that the styles are quite different or am I just convincing myself of things that aren't there? :lol:

[shackin'up]

no. you're right. But I must say, on some GOS-tracks with alot of layered guitars (TOF ShufRiff GOS) there are parts that sound pretty dirty to me. And I like those songs a lot, partially because of the rough-edge guitarwork. Therefore, I hope his next album has alot of dirty leads and rythmguitarparts.

[mylittledemon]

I think he's a better player in the studio because he has time to work with the tracks and what not. I like him live too. They are very different animals.

[TulsaMINI]

I think his playing is just more passionate live. He is in the moment and feeling the crowd. That's how I see it.

[#1LiddyBuckFan]

His style seems to be quite different to me when we're talking about studio versus live guitar playing. I get what you're saying with the "dirty" and "clean" sounds. Adapting his studio production to a live stage would have to be more difficult, so I think that's what gives him the raw feel live. I realize some of that is added live but not to the level of the album itself. I love him in both settings of course, but right now his live stuff is so powerful to me that I'm going to go with that as my choice. :nod: I really enjoy the whole "tear the guitar apart" thing because we don't see that on his albums generally speaking. The passion and energy that he brings to his live performances is unreal...that's my favorite part that it is so raw and emotionally exposed. I think that is his gift on stage...being so emotionally exposed with his guitar playing.

[madformac]

[I don't remember any threads similar to this, but if we have had then sorry!]

Lindsey's guitar styles are very different when he's playing live and in the studio. To me his studio stuff has always seemed very "clean" and his live stuff is "dirty".


OK, here's the news.

That probably has something to do with three things.

Firstly his choice of guitars. In the studio most of his electric work is still approached on Stratocasters and Telecasters, at least when the cameras are not there. Live he still uses the Model 1 to "cut through the mix" because he believes Fenders are too thin for live work. Not sure this is a valid excuse. Not in modern times anyway with high output pickups, active electronics and much better cables. In fact he could use a modern Strat and achieve better playability and make his job far easier than using the Turner. But old dogs and new tricks seldom go together. Its not like Clapton, Gilmour or the Stones get lost in the live mix is it?

The second reason he sounds much cleaner on record and in the studio is he has a habit of messing with the speed and pitch of his solos. He will play the solo then crank the speed up and adjust the pitch. This Is The Time solo is the most classic example of this (do you really think he can play that fast?), also most of the Tango stuff was done in this way too. The solo in "Come" on the Say You Will album too is similar in effect and was achieved in the same way. Although I'll go as far as to speculate Lindsey didn't even play this solo on record, which is why its so radically different to the live version. Listen carefully to it. Firstly its speeded up a hell of a lot and secondly, the style and licks are nothing like the way Lindsey plays. My musician friend and I suspect its Neales work you are hearing here.

The third thing is Lindsey sometimes uses a pick in the studio. This will make the attack of the notes louder and brighter than the fingers and nails.



He's far from being a technically great guitarist. Not that that even matter because Yngwie Malmsteen is a more technically proficient guitarist than Clapton, but Clapton has the advantage of being able to pack his playing with emotion that people can connect with, making his a better guitarist IMO.

Because of these big (IMO) stylistic differences I was wondering if anyone likes one more than the other or has any comments on either style (because we don't have discussions/arguments about his guitar playing enough :p ) Anyone even agree with me that the styles are quite different or am I just convincing myself of things that aren't there? :lol:

I agree with the Clapton remark although I'm not going to get started on Eric or Gerald and I will be arguing this thread for the next 40 pages like last time.. :D :laugh: :laugh:

I go for emotion in the playing over technical ability any day. One can be learned the other cannot. You cannot teach emotion, you have it or you don't.

Good thread btw, makes a change from the usual reruns. :thumbsup:

[Sarah]

True points about not using the strats and teles on the road, but he has picked up that white strat live a few times, even on the soundstage dvd for i am waiting!

What was he using that white strat for on the SYW tour... i don't remember. Tusk?

[face of glass]

'twas for Tusk, although guitar experts will be quick to point out that it was a Japanese copy. ;)

[Lindsey Jr.]

I've always wondered... The solo's in silver springs, say you will (the song) & gypsy (I mean the cool part at the end :) ), are they played on a guitar ? I'm talking about the studio versions, obviously lol.

I'm not sure, but I'm doing what I can :shrug: Anyone ? :wavey:

[mylittledemon]

I've always wondered... The solo's in silver springs, say you will (the song) & gypsy (I mean the cool part at the end :) ), are they played on a guitar ? I'm talking about the studio versions, obviously lol.

I'm not sure, but I'm doing what I can :shrug: Anyone ? :wavey:

Silver Springs studio I'm pretty sure is a guitar with some weird volume pedal trick. Sounds almost violin-like though.

I think Say You Will is similar to that sound. It's all studio wizardry. Gyspy...the ending to that song is very weird. I've never been able to re-create that sound from the album.

[Sarah]

'twas for Tusk, although guitar experts will be quick to point out that it was a Japanese copy. ;)

oh really? i never looked at it very closely. any idea of the brand?

weird that he wouldn't just use a strat, especially since he's mentioned using them.

[madformac]

True points about not using the strats and teles on the road, but he has picked up that white strat live a few times, even on the soundstage dvd for i am waiting!

What was he using that white strat for on the SYW tour... i don't remember. Tusk?

It was for Tusk yes. He totalled a Model 1 on 29th November 2003 at Earls Court, London, by throwing it about 30 feet! Anyway, I recall he started using it for Tusk for the following nights gig. I think some of my pictures on Lindseys official site show him with the white Strat during Tusk either in London or Manchester.

[madformac]

Silver Springs studio I'm pretty sure is a guitar with some weird volume pedal trick. Sounds almost violin-like though.


Its done using a Stratocaster with an Ernie Ball volume pedal. If you swell the volume when bnending a string, or even playing it flat, you can get those sounds easily. Mark Knopfler does it a lot. Even Slash did it on "Estranged" but he used the volume control on his Les Paul instead.

[madformac]

oh really? i never looked at it very closely. any idea of the brand?

weird that he wouldn't just use a strat, especially since he's mentioned using them.

I checked it out from about 2 feet away at a couple of gigs and I was certain it was a Mexican Strat not an American one. The headstock logo had Mexican markings if I recall. :confused:

[Lindsey Jr.]

Its done using a Stratocaster with an Ernie Ball volume pedal. If you swell the volume when bnending a string, or even playing it flat, you can get those sounds easily. Mark Knopfler does it a lot. Even Slash did it on "Estranged" but he used the volume control on his Les Paul instead.

Knopfler is way underrated I think. :thumbsup: And now, that Gypsy sound...:shrug:

[madformac]

Knopfler is way underrated I think. :thumbsup: And now, that Gypsy sound...:shrug:

Just sounds like Lindsey using a delay somewhere around the 400milisecond range on a Stratocaster, I'm certain its a Strat from the tone. The index finger sounds like its anchored on the 13th fret over the top E and B strings. Lindsey is picking the 15th fret of the E string, pulling off to the 13th fret and then hammering the 15th fret of the B string before picking the 13th fret of E again repeatedly at the start of the solo. Then he is playing an alternating Travis pick of the 13th, 15th and 17th frets of the E string and the 13th & 15th fret of the B with the 14th fret of the G string thrown in too for good measure. At least thats what it sounds like to me...

He's double tracked it too and so you have two guitars on the studio version. Live it sounds like he slows the delay a little bit and that gives the "multiple guitar" sound (like Big Love) when he picks quickly. ;)

Knopfler is very underated and remains to this day the only guitarist I've ever seen that's left me wondering "how did he do that?" at times..

*listening to it again I would say the studio version appears to have Christine playing some kind of keyboard underneath Lindseys guitar. rather than it being a double tracked guitar.

[Lindsey Jr.]

Thanks. Those songs prove that he's a wonderful guitarist, who can perfectly play in the context of the song.

[shackin'up]

Knopfler is very underated and remains to this day the only guitarist I've ever seen that's left me wondering "how did he do that?" at times..


Me too. He always leaves me wondering "How does he do that while asleep?"


:laugh: :laugh:

[Lindsey Jr.]

LOL.

Knopfler might not always play huge solos like the awesome lady writer & sultans of swing, he has a great, instantly recognisable tone, that alone makes him great.

[Matt Lucas]

Hello all---

This is a great thread. Thanks for starting and continuing it.

Just sounds like Lindsey using a delay somewhere around the 400milisecond range on a Stratocaster, I'm certain its a Strat from the tone.

Interesting. I'll have to listen to it again. I always thought it was a Telecaster or even a Chet Atkins or something like that. But then, you're probably right---I'm not a very technical person.

In the photos from his early days with the Mac, Lindsey almost always has a Les Paul, although I don't think he used it exclusively in the studio.

I think it's also interesting to note the changes in guitar tones that Lindsey has used over the years. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like he doesn't vary the tone in recent years as much as he did pre-TANGO.

Before I say this next comment---let me just say up front that I'm a huge fan of Lindsey's music and recording techniques. He been a particular influence on me in terms of using the studio as a tool [albeit my small home recording set-up] to make songs come alive.

But, since this thread was started to discuss Lindsey "Live v. Studio," I wanted to throw this out there.

After THE DANCE was released, I remember hearing an FM bootleg from the tour that followed. I was shocked. Not only was all of the between-song banter by the band members nearly exactly the same as it was on THE DANCE...the playing was also practically identical. The solos were nearly note-for-note the same.

For a group of musicians as talented as FM, this was just completely shocking and saddening to me. I remember asking a friend, "What's the use of playing live if you're just doing the same thing every night?"

Last year, I was blessed to be able to see Lindsey here in Houston [7th row tickets! woo-hoo!]. But, again, there seemed to be little room for improvisation or spontaneity. He certainly played with emotion---I don't think anyone could argue with that---but, in terms of the songs that were played, the comments that he made, and the notes that were played---it all seemed very rehearsed. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I seem to recall some of the comments Lindsey made and the song arrangements matching the Soundstage DVD.

I think Lindsey is one of the most underrated, talented guitarists in rock music today. But this approach to live performance...it's almost clinical...and it's hard for me to reconcile his obvious talent with such a rigid approach to performance.

I know. I'm probably just being too picky!

But I can't help comparing my other favorite performers with my favorite band, Crowded House. They don't play two concerts the same; the set list changes each show, they do audience requests, they make songs up on the spot, they encourage fans to participate in the shows. To me, their concerts are the definition of what a live show should be: an interactive experience.

From a technical standpoint, Lindsey is a far more talented musician than any of the members of Crowded House. Yet, his set lists rarely change from one show to another. Even the stories he tells to introduce songs rarely change.

I guess that's the one thing about him, as a performer, that I've never understood. We all know about him being a perfectionist and having control issues, particularly in the studio. Maybe he's just not comfortable with allowing things to be more relaxed on stage. But it still seems strange to me that this incredibly talented person, who seems so willing to try different or unusual approaches to recording, is almost rigid when it comes to concert performances.

mattl

[#1LiddyBuckFan]

Yet, his set lists rarely change from one show to another. Even the stories he tells to introduce songs rarely change.

I've seen so many performers that do this not just Lindsey, so I've never found it unusual. It's not that I don't wish they would change up stories sometimes. I totally see what you're saying but I would think its really hard to change it up every show in every town. I'm sure many artists don't consider that everyone talks about show details now via the internet or attends multiple shows. I noticed as the tour went along, Lindsey figured that out though. LOL But,still, many people in the audience had never heard his stories before (shocking I know :eek: ).

Maybe he's just not comfortable with allowing things to be more relaxed on stage. But it still seems strange to me that this incredibly talented person, who seems so willing to try different or unusual approaches to recording, is almost rigid when it comes to concert performances.

I would agree with that statement with his first and second legs...more on the first. Maybe being that he hadn't performed solo in so long, it took him a while to loosen up on stage and feel comfortable with his performance. I think he loosened up quite a bit as the second leg wound down and the third and fourth leg of the tour started. I was actually shocked and quite pleased he would do a request or two from the audience and extend solos etc...