For Sale

[catinthedark]

Okay - so the big sticky has been stuck up there for much of the day. How does everyone feel about The Penguin - and thereby The Ledge - being up on the block?

I bow down to Marty and Lisa. To undertake something to this degree - and to do it with such professionalism and ability - is rare. They have made this entire site into something great - and part of the reason The Ledge is community is what it is is due to what they have put into this place over the years.

So, with a huge thank you to them... how do we all feel about it changing hands?

[estranged4life]

Deb had a relative pass away recently, and in the near future she will receive and inheritance check.

Though we are separating, we plan to split that money so I would have a little bit that I would be willing to use to save this website...But I fear it wouldnt be enough.

I dont want to see the Penguin nor the Ledge cease to exist...I have made too many good memories and friends here - friends I consider my family!!!

[The Catdancer]

Well, this is a big shock!!!! I have no idea how much it would cost but I'm interested just so the site will still live on (and with an utmost repect to Marty and Lisa).

[nickay]

Deb had a relative pass away recently, and in the near future she will receive and inheritance check.

Though we are separating, we plan to split that money so I would have a little bit that I would be willing to use to save this website...But I fear it wouldnt be enough.

I dont want to see the Penguin nor the Ledge cease to exist...I have made too many good memories and friends here - friends I consider my family!!!

Since joing the ledge a few months ago with help from a friend i have become a a fan of Stevie Nicks .I hope that this site dosen't become a memory . I have met a few people on here and talked to others. Everyone has opened there arms to me and accepted me. There are those that have given me advice, that I have taken to heart. I hope that whom ever hands the ledge falls into that they respect the feelings, emotions,and memories of those that have been on here for years. I also hope that they relize its effect and importance to the people that post here.

[gldstwmn]

Okay - so the big sticky has been stuck up there for much of the day. How does everyone feel about The Penguin - and thereby The Ledge - being up on the block?



Not great but not unexpected.

[GardenStateGirlie]

i'm not shocked -- we've all known how much of a great expense this site has been to keep it up and running on a daily basis. marty and lis have done an amazing job throughout the years sinking not only money but time as well into what i'd consider the most impressive site for information on all of the band members. realizing how much it does cost, i have a feeling it will be shut down unless someone say -- oh, i don't know -- like john mcvie wants to buy it and hire someone to run it. its a damn shame this never became the official site but perhaps someone will save it.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Just clicked on this post and I'd heard nothing about the Penguin being for sale!? Where does it say this?

Ok.... I see it now

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

i'm not shocked -- we've all known how much of a great expense this site has been to keep it up and running on a daily basis. marty and lis have done an amazing job throughout the years sinking not only money but time as well into what i'd consider the most impressive site for information on all of the band members. realizing how much it does cost, i have a feeling it will be shut down unless someone say -- oh, i don't know -- like john mcvie wants to buy it and hire someone to run it. its a damn shame this never became the official site but perhaps someone will save it.

I agree with everything you have said.

I hope the site doesn't get shut down after all the hard work Marty and Lis have put into it.

::whispers:: I also hope the 7 wonders crew don't try to buy it!

[LukeA]

It's a shame that what takes up the most bandwidth and generates the most traffic on this site- The Ledge board- doesn't feature any advertising. What a lost revenue source, considering most of the bandwidth is used for pages filled with posts that have nothing to do with Fleetwood Mac.

Anyone who would actually consider to buy this site would need to take that into consideration. It's just common sense.

[GODDESS6]

:distress: it would break my heart to see the ledge not go on~ it is the only place i consistantly come & i have made some wonderful friends here~ i was freaking when it was down for that week, to have it cease to exist would be so tragic!!!:distress: ~

[sara1998]

If I had the technical expertise and money, I would love to buy and maintain this site.

I hope someone is able to step up and save it.

Thanks Marty and Lisa for years of enjoyment.

[Musicman408]

Yes, thank you Marty and Lisa, the site is simply amazing. I'd just be curious to know how much a website like this would go for? Are we talking hundreds, thousands, millions?

[Kelly]

It's a shame that what takes up the most bandwidth and generates the most traffic on this site- The Ledge board- doesn't feature any advertising. What a lost revenue source, considering most of the bandwidth is used for pages filled with posts that have nothing to do with Fleetwood Mac.

Anyone who would actually consider to buy this site would need to take that into consideration. It's just common sense.

I have often wondered about this, too. There is the link to ebay etc, but a few adds on the top and bottom of the Ledge pages could help a great deal. I also think a new potential owner needs a revamp of the forums....chitchat is the most popular forum. To buy and pay for a FM site, where there is hardly any FM talk and tons of useless chitchat...well, it is something to consider. I certainly hope someone steps up to the plate...and I think someone will. Fleetwood Mac.com is the most useless site around and if the band or LB ever plans on touring again, a site like this is great for them. Maybe John should buy it. :lol:

[kathy1]

i just read about this and i hope that the ledge will stay up. if not we'll have to find another way to chat.

[Musicman408]

I have often wondered about this, too. There is the link to ebay etc, but a few adds on the top and bottom of the Ledge pages could help a great deal. I also think a new potential owner needs a revamp of the forums....chitchat is the most popular forum. To buy and pay for a FM site, where there is hardly any FM talk and tons of useless chitchat...well, it is something to consider. I certainly hope someone steps up to the plate...and I think someone will. Fleetwood Mac.com is the most useless site around and if the band or LB ever plans on touring again, a site like this is great for them. Maybe John should buy it. :lol:

Or maybe I should. :laugh:

[Kelly]

Or maybe I should. :laugh:

Do you have tens of thousands of dollars at your disposal? Do you have the technical expertise to run and maintian a site like this? If so, maybe you should make them an offer. :rolleyes:

[Sahara]

I have no idea how much the site would cost. I really hope someone is willing to take it up .... God help us if we all have decamp to Seven Wonders... :rolleyes:

Would an increase in the number of supporting Ledgies help ease the burden on the new owner at all? I've been meaning to subscribe for ages, and I'm sure plenty of others would be willing to chip in to help keep the site up. Obviously that won't cover the entire expense, but I'm just thinking. Is that realistic? :shrug:

[Sahara]

Do you have tens of thousands of dollars at your disposal? Do you have the technical expertise to run and maintian a site like this? If so, maybe you should make them an offer. :rolleyes:
Are we seriously talking tens of thousands?
Scorn not my simplicity, I haven't the foggiest idea!! :o

[Musicman408]

I have no idea how much the site would cost. I really hope someone is willing to take it up .... God help us if we all have decamp to Seven Wonders... :rolleyes:

Would an increase in the number of supporting Ledgies help ease the burden on the new owner at all? I've been meaning to subscribe for ages, and I'm sure plenty of others would be willing to chip in to help keep the site up. Obviously that won't cover the entire expense, but I'm just thinking. Is that realistic? :shrug:

Well, yes, it would help, but there are some other things that would probably help. Yes, the pricetag for some might be a bit......wow, but there are some other things that, once purchased, would bring in some extra revenue. Advertising for one, is the most likely option. You gotta give Marty and Co. props for really keeping The Ledge ad free, but with a new owner, advertising would more than likely provide so much needed website security. And with that money, depending on how much it is, the likelyhood for expansions and updates increases, because as you all know, buying a website isn't just a once and done. You HAVE to pay to maintain the site, so a consistant, heavy stream of cash could do wonders.

You know, if I had the money, and wouldn't be starting college in a year, I think it would be a very cool thing to do, so the new owner will more than likely not be me, so yes, it is safe to come out of hiding you all. :laugh: But still, the premise of running and maintaining a site of this caliber is very intriguing, so maybe once a new owner is found, we can keep in touch.

Anyway, that is my short tidbit of the moment. Hope I didn;t ramble too long. :laugh:

[Kelly]

Are we seriously talking tens of thousands?
Scorn not my simplicity, I haven't the foggiest idea!! :o

Not sure...I asked one of the attorney's I work for if he had any idea. I showed him the site and he does alot of contract work. He felt it was probably worth that much. :shrug: I really have no idea what Marty and Lis are looking for though. I think it costs quite a bit to maintain the site on a monthly basis...much more than people think. Considering the site has been around since 1995, it has been built up to be the biggest source of information on Fleetwood Mac, it has the Q and A's, the forums, the discography......I think my boss is in the ballpark. The money is also just one aspect of it...it takes a vast technical knowledge to maintian the site...something that Marty said he does not have the time for anymore. Increasing supporting memberships will not ease that burden from him.

Just my opinion, but I think this has been coming for awhile now. The problems around here certainly don't help either. :shrug:
I hope John MCvie and company buy it. :thumbsup:

[#1LiddyBuckFan]

Let's just hope someone buys it period! I would hate to see this site shut down because no one wanted it or something. :distress: I suppose we should just enjoy every day of our Ledge to the fullest! :xoxo: :wavey: Hopefully we have many more years of enjoyment!

Marty and Lis...my hat off to you. You have created a wonderful thing here!! :nod: Thanks for all of the fun!!

[DavidMn]

Maybe Johnathan Todd will buy it.:rolleyes:

[TulsaMINI]

From http://directory.sootle.com/website-worth/


http://directory.sootle.com/images/ben.gif</a></center><br /><span style="font-size: 11px;">This website is worth</span>
<img border="0" src="http://directory.sootle.com/tech/worth.php?url=ledge.fleetwoodmac.net" name="MyImage"></b><br /><span style="font-size: 10px;"><a href="http://directory.sootle.com/website-worth/">What is your website worth?</a></span></div>


That was the calculation for ledge.fleetwoodmac.net. fleetwoodmac.net without the leading "ledge" in the URL calculated is as being worth $18. :shrug:

[danax6]

www.fleetwoodmac.net came up as being worth close to $4000.

[TulsaMINI]

Oops. That makes more sense. Maybe because I didn't put it in there with the www. :rolleyes:

Who knows how it's calculated anyway.

[Musicman408]

Oops. That makes more sense. Maybe because I didn't put it in there with the www. :rolleyes:

Who knows how it's calculated anyway.

Yeah, me neither, it says my band's website is worth 324 dollars, and that seems AMAZINGLY high to me.:nod:

[Musicman408]

OK guys, I thougt of something. Yes, it would be amazingly great is John and co decided to buy this site. But if that doesn't happen would it be possible is multiple people purchased a certain percent of the website? That way, expenses would be cut, and the technical responsibility would be greatly divided.

I know for one, that if the buyer desires, I would love to try my hand at some technical standpoints such as layouts and whatnot. I know I really won't be able to make a financial contribution, but the technical work could be assisted with. I am always ready to learn, and I do have ideas.

So to sum this up, would it be possible, and what are your alls thoughts on a joint ownership?

[Musicman408]

OK guys, I thougt of something. Yes, it would be amazingly great is John and co decided to buy this site. But if that doesn't happen would it be possible is multiple people purchased a certain percent of the website? That way, expenses would be cut, and the technical responsibility would be greatly divided.

I know for one, that if the buyer desires, I would love to try my hand at some technical standpoints such as layouts and whatnot. I know I really won't be able to make a financial contribution, but the technical work could be assisted with. I am always ready to learn, and I do have ideas.

So to sum this up, would it be possible, and what are your alls thoughts on a joint ownership?

Oh, BTW, the Ledge itself is worth like 3,480, so maybe splitting it would be a possibility, although...... No, that sounds aweful.:(

[WildHeart69]

yeah, I typed "www.fleetwoodmac.net":

<div style="border: 4px solid #cccccc; background-color: white; width: 115px; text-align: center;padding: 0 0 10px 0;"><center><a href="http://www.sootle.com/" alt="submit news" /><img border="0"
src="http://directory.sootle.com/images/ben.gif" style="border:0;"></a></center><br /><span style="font-size: 11px;">This website is worth</span><center><img border="0" src="http://directory.sootle.com/tech/worth.php?url=www.fleetwoodmac.net" name="MyImage"></center></b><br /><span style="font-size: 10px;"><a href="http://directory.sootle.com/website-worth/">What is your website worth?</a></span></div>

[Johnny Stew]

I haven't asked Marty what he's asking for the site, but according to dnScoop (http://www.dnscoop.com)....

The estimated value of http://www.fleetwoodmac.net is: $31,416

The estimated value of http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net is: $3,300

This value is calculated based on several factors shown above, including: Links, Traffic (Alexa), age of the domain, site category, domain keyword popularity, and overall occurrences of the domain name on the web.

[jannieC]

I hope that whoever does buy it is normal and doesn't ruin a wonderful thing. :o

[skcin]

I agree with everything you have said.

I hope the site doesn't get shut down after all the hard work Marty and Lis have put into it.

::whispers:: I also hope the 7 wonders crew don't try to buy it!

Good God. :shocked: I hadn't even thought of that.

[SortaSavageLike]

I think The Wizard should buy The Ledge.

Just kidding. :shocked:

[sara1998]

I hope that whoever does buy it is normal and doesn't ruin a wonderful thing. :o

Yeah. It's called leave well enough alone.

I'm scared.:(

[Sarah]

it's had a good run, and i accept the fact that nothing on the internet is forever. with a leadership change and redesign, i can't honestly say that i'd be interested in coming back.

lol, there's been some ridiculous stuff on here.

[Musicman408]

it's had a good run, and i accept the fact that nothing on the internet is forever. with a leadership change and redesign, i can't honestly say that i'd be interested in coming back.

lol, there's been some ridiculous stuff on here.

Oh come on, it's just a change in leadership. The over 4,000 members here aren't chaning, therefore it would pretty much be the same thing with the same people. I just don't see any sence in that argument........

[shackin'up]

it's had a good run, and i accept the fact that nothing on the internet is forever. with a leadership change and redesign, i can't honestly say that i'd be interested in coming back.

lol, there's been some ridiculous stuff on here.

Agreed, but if you want to be on the edge about news, samples and livesnippets a few hours after, you got to be here too. And the ledge is one thing, the incredible database the penguin is, is irreplacable. That MUST be saved.

[Kelly]

Oh come on, it's just a change in leadership. The over 4,000 members here aren't chaning, therefore it would pretty much be the same thing with the same people. I just don't see any sence in that argument........

Marty and Lis don't contribute to the forums much any more but change can be a scary thing for some. New owners could dramatically change the board...who knows? They could ruin it. Or they could clean house and dramatically improve it. Personally I hope some housecleaning is done, especially with the message boards part of the site.

[Sarah]

Oh come on, it's just a change in leadership. The over 4,000 members here aren't chaning, therefore it would pretty much be the same thing with the same people. I just don't see any sence in that argument........

It's not an argument, it's a statement. It becomes an argument when you try to tell me how I should think, though. I mean, seriously.

Marty and Lis have done an excellent job, and I've been here for a long time. I would rather get out while the getting's good than watch it go down the tubes. In the event that it was to become like any of the other FM boards already out there, I gotta say, have no desire to read the crap. It's all just the same recycled arguments when it comes to discussing the band. There's your sense.



And Gerald.. you're absolutely right. It is an invaluable resource. I'd much prefer to see the contents of the site stay and the Ledge itself - the discussions - go. A video/audio posting/sharing system would be good.. it's been super to catch all the videos and photos from the tours.

[BlackWidow]

HM....
I will def look into this...

[BlackWidow]

I hope that whoever does buy it is normal and doesn't ruin a wonderful thing. :o

Normal? Like anyone on here is normal...:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Musicman408]

It's not an argument, it's a statement. It becomes an argument when you try to tell me how I should think, though. I mean, seriously.

Marty and Lis have done an excellent job, and I've been here for a long time. I would rather get out while the getting's good than watch it go down the tubes. In the event that it was to become like any of the other FM boards already out there, I gotta say, have no desire to read the crap. It's all just the same recycled arguments when it comes to discussing the band. There's your sense.



And Gerald.. you're absolutely right. It is an invaluable resource. I'd much prefer to see the contents of the site stay and the Ledge itself - the discussions - go. A video/audio posting/sharing system would be good.. it's been super to catch all the videos and photos from the tours.


I am sorry if you felt like my earlier words were a bit Ultimadum-ish, but this is a message board, not a Nation. It's a group of people who gather who have similar tastes and talk about them. It's not like we have some government who tells us what we can or can't do. The people aren't going to change, and it's up to you all to keep the Ledge the way it is. If everyone stays, nothing ever really changes. If everyone decides to jump ship, that's where we'll have drastic changes.

So I'll ask all Ledgies to make a pact, that no matter what ownership we have, we will continue to congregate and discuss our love for The Mac, and whatever else we feel like. That, that large mass of people, is what will keep a community alive, not one individual. So don't let a new potential owner/s keep you away from a tradition that you have held dear for years..... Please. :nod:


"If not for me, than..... Do it for yourself."

Much Love,
Ethan

[KarmaContestant]

I don't post here frequently anymore...though with the seeming (hopeful) demise of Seven Wonders (10 more posters banned last weekend, including myself), it would be shame to see this board go unbought and thus 'away'.

Some new forums would be great, right? How about an images forum? A trades forum? A forum devoted to other artists? Yeah, alot of those ideas come right from Seven Wonders - but those are part of what made that board great for fans..and this is supposed to be a fan board, right? :p

And besides, I know hairs here have bristled at the thought of a redesign - but would that be so bad either? The colors and layout of the board do not make it great - it's the people that do that.

If I had the money, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. But I don't have it to spare. :shrug:

[carrie721]

I am sorry if you felt like my earlier words were a bit Ultimadum-ish, but this is a message board, not a Nation. It's a group of people who gather who have similar tastes and talk about them. It's not like we have some government who tells us what we can or can't do. The people aren't going to change, and it's up to you all to keep the Ledge the way it is. If everyone stays, nothing ever really changes. If everyone decides to jump ship, that's where we'll have drastic changes.

So I'll ask all Ledgies to make a pact, that no matter what ownership we have, we will continue to congregate and discuss our love for The Mac, and whatever else we feel like. That, that large mass of people, is what will keep a community alive, not one individual. So don't let a new potential owner/s keep you away from a tradition that you have held dear for years..... Please. :nod:


"If not for me, than..... Do it for yourself."

Much Love,
Ethan

ethan, new administration could change a lot around here. look at the difference between the ledge and seven wonders. the difference in membership is not the only difference there is. i can understand why sarah would want to leave if new people bought this place and ****ed it up.

[Sarah]

I am sorry if you felt like my earlier words were a bit Ultimadum-ish, but this is a message board, not a Nation. It's a group of people who gather who have similar tastes and talk about them. It's not like we have some government who tells us what we can or can't do. The people aren't going to change, and it's up to you all to keep the Ledge the way it is. If everyone stays, nothing ever really changes. If everyone decides to jump ship, that's where we'll have drastic changes.

So I'll ask all Ledgies to make a pact, that no matter what ownership we have, we will continue to congregate and discuss our love for The Mac, and whatever else we feel like. That, that large mass of people, is what will keep a community alive, not one individual. So don't let a new potential owner/s keep you away from a tradition that you have held dear for years..... Please. :nod:


Yeah, don't worry. You aren't particularly in a position to give me an ultimatum, so I didn't take it that way at all.

I see what you're saying, and that's fine for some people. But like I said, for me, the Ledge isn't about 4,000+ people and their random discussions. It's always nice to be a part of a community, but really, there are other communities out there for any variety of topics - or just general talk. This place for me stopped being about making friendships and desire for likeminded people a long time ago, and now - although I do enjoy some back and forth here on the chit-chat board - it's really about finding out the latest news on the group. (Well, Lindsey.)

So yeah, I mean, I hope for whoever else's sake that everything works out the way you want it to and you have a board to hang out on and all that. I just don't want to watch this place go downhill any more than it - dare I say - already has. There are reasons that a lot of people don't go to the other FM communities, and one of those is "the people". The same arguments, the same clique-form, clique-rule, clique-explosion sequence, and tbh, the same board politics & subsequent ass-kissing that other communities appear to suffer.. it's just tired.

just my .02. you don't have to take it.

[KarmaContestant]

ethan, new administration could change a lot around here. look at the difference between the ledge and seven wonders. the difference in membership is not the only difference there is. i can understand why sarah would want to leave if new people bought this place and ****ed it up.

....which is precisely why, hopefully, someone currently a member of the board will buy it. Before it's too late for that.

[Musicman408]

I don't post here frequently anymore...though with the seeming (hopeful) demise of Seven Wonders (10 more posters banned last weekend, including myself), it would be shame to see this board go unbought and thus 'away'.

Some new forums would be great, right? How about an images forum? A trades forum? A forum devoted to other artists? Yeah, alot of those ideas come right from Seven Wonders - but those are part of what made that board great for fans..and this is supposed to be a fan board, right? :p

And besides, I know hairs here have bristled at the thought of a redesign - but would that be so bad either? The colors and layout of the board do not make it great - it's the people that do that.

If I had the money, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. But I don't have it to spare. :shrug:

I think I probably would too.

And Carrie, you are right to a degree, but as long as Seven Wonders doesn't buy the Ledge, I think we will remain safe from Fascist Message Board Syndrome. :nod: :laugh:

[Sugar]

...but as long as Seven Wonders doesn't buy the Ledge, I think we will remain safe from Fascist Message Board Syndrome. :nod: :laugh:

Don't kid yourself. There's no shortage on Internet fascists out there.

[KarmaContestant]

I think I probably would too.

And Carrie, you are right to a degree, but as long as Seven Wonders doesn't buy the Ledge, I think we will remain safe from Fascist Message Board Syndrome. :nod: :laugh:


That won't happen. God forbid.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b370/karmacontestant/controlfreak.jpg

[carrie721]

Don't kid yourself. There's no shortage on Internet fascists out there.

ain't that the truth. you took the words right out of my mouth. :laugh:

[Musicman408]

Yeah, don't worry. You aren't particularly in a position to give me an ultimatum, so I didn't take it that way at all.

I see what you're saying, and that's fine for some people. But like I said, for me, the Ledge isn't about 4,000+ people and their random discussions. It's always nice to be a part of a community, but really, there are other communities out there for any variety of topics - or just general talk. This place for me stopped being about making friendships and desire for likeminded people a long time ago, and now - although I do enjoy some back and forth here on the chit-chat board - it's really about finding out the latest news on the group. (Well, Lindsey.)

So yeah, I mean, I hope for whoever else's sake that everything works out the way you want it to and you have a board to hang out on and all that. I just don't want to watch this place go downhill any more than it - dare I say - already has. There are reasons that a lot of people don't go to the other FM communities, and one of those is "the people". The same arguments, the same clique-form, clique-rule, clique-explosion sequence, and tbh, the same board politics & subsequent ass-kissing that other communities appear to suffer.. it's just tired.

just my .02. you don't have to take it.

Sarah, that is totally fine. I am definately glad you gave your two cents, that's what keeps boards thriving.

Oh and to the person who made the comment about a current Ledge member buying this place, I think that may be in the best interest for all of us.:nod:

And I just wanted to say sorry if I am seeming a bid loud mouthed about this issue, but I just couldn't stand to see The Ledge die, something that I really don't think will happen, given the right circumastances. :nod:

[HejiraNYC]

ethan, new administration could change a lot around here. look at the difference between the ledge and seven wonders. the difference in membership is not the only difference there is. i can understand why sarah would want to leave if new people bought this place and ****ed it up.

Maybe the new owner will finally re-name The Ledge to something more apt... such as "The Anti-Seven Wonders Board." :p

I agree that this has been a great place, even if the look/layout is a bit stuck in a time warp. I am hopeful that the site can be enhanced for the better all the while preserving the basic founding principles of the site. If there is no ultimate buyer for the domain name or the Penguin database, perhaps there is a way to carve out the Ledge forum part of the site, and keep that up and running. I don't know what price Marty and Lis are seeking, but I hope it is a realistic, fair price that is based upon the rather limited commercial potential for the site. Since Mary and Lis have invested so much of their time, love and money towards this huge endeavor, what better tribute would there be than to see it continue in perpetuity...

[Rickypt]

So I'll ask all Ledgies to make a pact, that no matter what ownership we have, we will continue to congregate and discuss our love for The Mac, and whatever else we feel like. That, that large mass of people, is what will keep a community alive, not one individual. So don't let a new potential owner/s keep you away from a tradition that you have held dear for years..... Please. :nod:


"If not for me, than..... Do it for yourself."

Much Love,
Ethan

I do solemnly swear!! :wavey:

[Sarah]

I don't see why the concern is on saving the Ledge when the rest of the site is as thorough as it is. That's what you CAN'T find somewhere else. :shrug:

The archives of old interviews and the huge discography are priceless.

[Rickypt]

^^Because people are different and not everyone has to think like you. :shrug:

[Musicman408]

Maybe the new owner will finally re-name The Ledge to something more apt... such as "The Anti-Seven Wonders Board." :p

I agree that this has been a great place, even if the look/layout is a bit stuck in a time warp. I am hopeful that the site can be enhanced for the better all the while preserving the basic founding principles of the site. If there is no ultimate buyer for the domain name or the Penguin database, perhaps there is a way to carve out the Ledge forum part of the site, and keep that up and running. I don't know what price Marty and Lis are seeking, but I hope it is a realistic, fair price that is based upon the rather limited commercial potential for the site. Since Mary and Lis have invested so much of their time, love and money towards this huge endeavor, what better tribute would there be than to see it continue in perpetuity...

Oh my gosh, I completely agree with you on all counts!!! And this whole time I thought I was crazy with my opinions. :laugh:

Again, I'm going to propose the idea of a multiple member buying union. It may not be the best thing, but it would cot the cost by however many people went in together. What are opinions on that?

[Sugar]

I don't see why the concern is on saving the Ledge when the rest of the site is as thorough as it is. That's what you CAN'T find somewhere else. :shrug:

The archives of old interviews and the huge discography are priceless.

Absolutely. If there's a choice to be made, it's gotta be The Penguin.

[#1LiddyBuckFan]

When did this become a "choose one or the other to save" situation??

I want the whole dame thing to stay.

[carrie721]

Oh my gosh, I completely agree with you on all counts!!! And this whole time I thought I was crazy with my opinions. :laugh:

Again, I'm going to propose the idea of a multiple member buying union. It may not be the best thing, but it would cot the cost by however many people went in together. What are opinions on that?

no. can you imagine trying to organize all the financial bull**** involved with that? keeping tabs on who owes what? if you want to, more power to you, but ... i don't think that would ever fly.

Absolutely. If there's a choice to be made, it's gotta be The Penguin.

i agree. there are other ways to keep in touch with friends. it would be sad to see the ledge go, but what's really irreplaceable is all that information.

[Sarah]

When did this become a "choose one or the other to save" situation??

I want the whole dame thing to stay.


It's not... we're just talking hypothetically. We have no idea what's going to happen, do we?

[carrie721]

When did this become a "choose one or the other to save" situation??

I want the whole dame thing to stay.

i think most people do too. but it is a huge financial burden to take on the whole site.
people are only speaking hypothetically.

[GardenStateGirlie]

I don't see why the concern is on saving the Ledge when the rest of the site is as thorough as it is. That's what you CAN'T find somewhere else. :shrug:

The archives of old interviews and the huge discography are priceless.

agreed.

and the last thing this place would ever need would be more ways to eat up bandwith -- aka more forums, imo.

[Musicman408]

Absolutely. If there's a choice to be made, it's gotta be The Penguin.

Sounds like a new Poll to me, which to save? :laugh:

But seriously, you can look at this sale as the end of something great, or as the potential to build upon something that is as fabulous as Penguin Inc. is. Yes, there more than likely will be some slight changes if a new owner does step forward, but that doesn;t mean that all of a sudden things are going to change for the negative.

I know that change, when something is as solid as Penguin Inc., is a scary premiss but I am sure that Marty and Lisa will take a hard look at the buyer and determine part of their decision on who can best manage the "company". I really don;t think that they would like to see ALL of these years (it was 1995 right) thrown instantly away. Have faith in change, and keep in mind that the change is determined by the ones who have built the ledgcy.

Just keep that in mind. :nod:

[carrie721]

It's not... we're just talking hypothetically. We have no idea what's going to happen, do we?

beat me to it! :wavey:

[GardenStateGirlie]

Sounds like a new Poll to me, which to save? :laugh:


yeah. let's not. kplznthnx.

[KarmaContestant]

and the last thing this place would ever need would be more ways to eat up bandwith -- aka more forums, imo.

...well, that might be your opinion, but mine is that this place could really use some more forums. :woohoo:

[carrie721]

Sounds like a new Poll to me, which to save? :laugh:

But seriously, you can look at this sale as the end of something great, or as the potential to build upon something that is as fabulous as Penguin Inc. is. Yes, there more than likely will be some slight changes if a new owner does step forward, but that doesn;t mean that all of a sudden things are going to change for the negative.

I know that change, when something is as solid as Penguin Inc., is a scary premiss but I am sure that Marty and Lisa will take a hard look at the buyer and determine part of their decision on who can best manage the "company". I really don;t think that they would like to see ALL of these years (it was 1995 right) thrown instantly away. Have faith in change, and keep in mind that the change is determined by the ones who have built the ledgcy.

Just keep that in mind. :nod:

hmm. your spelling isn't usually this bad. you don't sound like yourself today. do you have a fever? :shrug:

[Musicman408]

...well, that might be your opinion, but mine is that this place could really use some more forums. :woohoo:

I don't neccesarily think more forums, but rather a different way to organize them would be more feasable.... Although I think the way it is, is already fine. :nod:

And Carrie, about the financial thing, I do agree, I'm just thinking that it would be a lot less intimidating if a group of people knew they were doing it together. I do think though, that the best thing would be just to have a solitary owner. :nod:

[carrie721]

I don't neccesarily think more forums, but rather a different way to organize them would be more feasable.... Although I think the way it is, is already fine. :nod:

And Carrie, about the financial thing, I do agree, I'm just thinking that it would be a lot less intimidating if a group of people knew they were doing it together. I do think though, that the best thing would be just to have a solitary owner. :nod:

a different way to organize them?? what is more straightforward and simple than what we already have??

[Musicman408]

hmm. your spelling isn't usually this bad. you don't sound like yourself today. do you have a fever? :shrug:

We are just having a little family trouble at the moment, so I am just a little out of my mind at the moment. It was a heck of a stressful day..... Sorry.:sorry:

[Rickypt]

a different way to organize them?? what is more straightforward and simple than what we already have??

I don't know, I find it really complicated here.

[carrie721]

I don't know, I find it really complicated here.

i could barely figure out how to reply to this. is this coming through??? carrie

[Musicman408]

I don't know, I find it really complicated here.

Like I did say though, I prefer the way we already have it. It is very nice and simple, I am just looking at both sides' perspective if you will.:nod:

[KarmaContestant]

I don't neccesarily think more forums, but rather a different way to organize them would be more feasable.... Although I think the way it is, is already fine. :nod:



Ethan...how else would you organize them? I mean, really, they're pretty well defined as is - except for 'chit chat', which has alot of discussions about other artists that would be easier to keep track of if they were in their own forum.

Pictures of Stevie and demos/live shows get totally lost in the Stevie forum after a couple of days...so, yeah, 'organizing' them into their own forum might make it easier to find stuff without searching through countless other topics.

:shrug:

[estranged4life]

I say WE, the members, at least attempt to try to raise the money ourselves to save this beautiful world of ours.

I know that may be 'wishful thinking', but it is a thought...

[Sarah]

i could barely figure out how to reply to this. is this coming through??? carrie

still new to this whole reading thing, but i think you figured it out.

i'm with marissa on the no need for new forums. that's kind of like opening up the floodgates, and the last thing this place needs is more people.

[carrie721]

Ethan...how else would you organize them? I mean, really, they're pretty well defined as is - except for 'chit chat', which has alot of discussions about other artists that would be easier to keep track of if they were in their own forum.

Pictures of Stevie and demos/live shows get totally lost in the Stevie forum after a couple of days...so, yeah, 'organizing' them into their own forum might make it easier to find stuff without searching through countless other topics.

:shrug:

there really isn't all that much stevie discussion ... that thread for stevie demos has been going for quite a while, i don't think it's hard to find at all. as for discussions about other artists, i just don't think we have enough of that going on to warrant starting a new forum dedicated to that. things work just fine around here :shrug:

[Peestie]

I'd much prefer to see the contents of the site stay and the Ledge itself - the discussions - go. A video/audio posting/sharing system would be good.. it's been super to catch all the videos and photos from the tours.

It would depend on the system. I think having The Ledge as a community makes people more inclined to share things.

Agreed, but if you want to be on the edge about news, samples and livesnippets a few hours after, you got to be here too. And the ledge is one thing, the incredible database the penguin is, is irreplacable. That MUST be saved.

Yup. I don't know where else there is to go to get all the news.

And I enjoy the discussions in the LB forum (where I spend most my time on this board). Maybe I've not been here long enough for them to get old and stale since I've been here a year and a half-ish. I love having chats and debates about my favourite artists.

[carrie721]

still new to this whole reading thing, but i think you figured it out.

i'm with marissa on the no need for new forums. that's kind of like opening up the floodgates, and the last thing this place needs is more people.

thank god. i think once i reach 9,000 posts i'll have the hang of it.

yeah, no new forums. simplicity is a beautiful thing.

[KarmaContestant]

and the last thing this place needs is more people.

yeah...That seems to be the prevailing attitude around here. For a long, long time. :rolleyes:

[GardenStateGirlie]

still new to this whole reading thing, but i think you figured it out.

i'm with marissa on the no need for new forums. that's kind of like opening up the floodgates, and the last thing this place needs is more people.

not even so much new people as people discussing the same **** over and over again on multiple forums (cause that already happens here as it is) and carrying their angst/hate/ambivalence about life and one another in even more places.

i can see it now ... after listening to this bootleg from 1986 that teddansoninahat traded, stevie reminds me of blondie! that brings up a great topic -- if you were to cast the fleetwood mac movie, who would play each bandmember?!?! -_-

plus, this place has been difficult to moderate as it is. there doesn't need to be more locations to create more fangirl/fanboy drama.

again, jmo.

[Musicman408]

thank god. i think once i reach 9,000 posts i'll have the hang of it.

yeah, no new forums. simplicity is a beautiful thing.

It is.... It really is...... :nod:

[estranged4life]

thank god. i think once i reach 9,000 posts i'll have the hang of it.

yeah, no new forums. simplicity is a beautiful thing.

I just learned how to use the 'enhanced posting' option, so don't feel bad :lol:

[Sarah]

yeah...That seems to be the prevailing attiude around here. For a long, long time. :rolleyes:

yeah, unfortunately, it hasn't really deterred the influx. :rolleyes:

the ledge has had a good thing going for a long, long time. i don't feel bad - just as i'm sure some others don't - about being disappointed in some of the trash that is unavoidable when you get a huge group of people in one place.

[GardenStateGirlie]

there really isn't all that much stevie discussion ... that thread for stevie demos has been going for quite a while, i don't think it's hard to find at all. as for discussions about other artists, i just don't think we have enough of that going on to warrant starting a new forum dedicated to that. things work just fine around here :shrug:

not to mention, the search option works very well. i've utilized it a few times when searching for things.

[#1LiddyBuckFan]

It's not... we're just talking hypothetically. We have no idea what's going to happen, do we?

I realize this. When you all ask which one would you choose...the Penguin or the Ledge then it does become a "choose one or the other" situation, doesn't it? :shrug: Hypothetical or not. Of course I realize this is all hypothetical.

I thought it would be ok for me to add a comment to the pile too. :rolleyes:

[Sarah]

i can see it now ... after listening to this bootleg from 1986 that teddansoninahat traded, stevie reminds me of blondie! that brings up a great topic -- if you were to cast the fleetwood mac movie, who would play each bandmember?!?! -_-



poetry. so articulate. you are still my favorite. <3

[Musicman408]

not to mention, the search option works very well. i've utilized it a few times when searching for things.

That is true, the search function is really, really nice.

You all, I would just hate to see this place end, really I would, and I am sure that something good will come out of all of this.

[wetcamelfood]

Absolutely. If there's a choice to be made, it's gotta be The Penguin.

I agree, though like many others here I also fall in the category of "if I had the money & technical skills..." I have been doing the data entry to the discography database as well as many other great volunteers here and I hope to continue working on that under whoever the new owner(s) may be.

My only fear is if it is bought by the band or let's just say, an official body, as they most likely would ditch the archival material and just use it to promote the latest release which I think would be a waste but that's business I guess.

I recall when there were bandwidth issues (and no doubt this will be an issue under new ownership again since even Marty & Lis couldn't afford the dedicated server, hence the supporting ledgies) it was mainly the Chit Chat board that ate up most of it and Marty did tell me (which I was surprised about though I must admit I don't know all the tech stuff) that the discog only takes up a fraction of the space. I thought it'd be the other way around with new pages being added all the time (or I should say hopefully will be added if it does continue & I'm allowed to continue working on it under new leadership and I can finish building up the existing entries, there's been tech issues Marty's looking at over the last month so that's why no updates to it since then) so hopefully if nothing else if no one buys the whole thing that maybe the parts that take the most room could be shaved off to cut down costs as well? Just a thought for the new buyers I guess.

I don't know what the "deadline" on this is but here's hoping something gets worked out soon in some way. :)

John

[carrie721]

not to mention, the search option works very well. i've utilized it a few times when searching for things.

i love the search function. most message boards' search engines are worthless ... but ours works! use it, people.

I just learned how to use the 'enhanced posting' option, so don't feel bad :lol:

i was kidding :p

[Sarah]

You all, I would just hate to see this place end, really I would, and I am sure that something good will come out of all of this.

Yes. We know. But hey, it's not gone yet.. it's just a new announcement.. so no need for tears just yet, little buddy.

[danax6]

thank god. i think once i reach 9,000 posts i'll have the hang of it.

yeah, no new forums. simplicity is a beautiful thing.Gah, a big NO on more forums. We really don't need Seven Wonders 2.0, where you first have to spend 10 minutes determining where to post a new thread.

[#1LiddyBuckFan]

But hey, it's not gone yet..

Thank goodness! :D

[carrie721]

I thought it would be ok for me to add a comment to the pile too. :rolleyes:

it is okay. it's also okay for people to respond and disagree :wavey:

[carrie721]

Gah, a big NO on more forums. We really don't need Seven Wonders 2.0, where you first have to spend 10 minutes determining where to post a new thread.

i seriously cannot find anything over there. when i joined 7w in january of last year, i thought it was hard to navigate then. now it's just out of control!

[Peestie]

Gah, a big NO on more forums. We really don't need Seven Wonders 2.0, where you first have to spend 10 minutes determining where to post a new thread.

I was/am on a Dio board that used to be pretty simple and had a layout similar to the ledge. Dio talk, Music talk and Chit Chat. Then they added loads of subforums for different stuff, a place for pictures, shows and everything you could think of and it killed the place. I agree with all those saying it should be kept as it is. Nice and simple.

[Rickypt]

i love the search function. most message boards' search engines are worthless ... but ours works! use it, people.


It's flawless. :nod:

[GardenStateGirlie]

i seriously cannot find anything over there. when i joined 7w in january of last year, i thought it was hard to navigate then. now it's just out of control!

i gave up there after about a week -- it was overload. too. much. occasionally, i'll be directed there for ****s and giggles but that's about it.

[danax6]

It's flawless. :nod:Yes, and it goes back really far also. I use it all the time. It would definitely be a shame to see all of that go.

[#1LiddyBuckFan]

i seriously cannot find anything over there. when i joined 7w in january of last year, i thought it was hard to navigate then. now it's just out of control!

That's because threads get deleted daily. :laugh: They have a 'no opinions allowed' policy I think. Plus there doesn't seem to be anyone there. Go figure!! :p

[KarmaContestant]

I recall when there were bandwidth issues (and no doubt this will be an issue under new ownership again since even Marty & Lis couldn't afford the dedicated server, hence the supporting ledgies) it was mainly the Chit Chat board that ate up most of it and Marty did tell me (which I was surprised about though I must admit I don't know all the tech stuff) that the discog only takes up a fraction of the space. I thought it'd be the other way around with new pages being added all the time (or I should say hopefully will be added if it does continue & I'm allowed to continue working on it under new leadership and I can finish building up the existing entries, there's been tech issues Marty's looking at over the last month so that's why no updates to it since then) so hopefully if nothing else if no one buys the whole thing that maybe the parts that take the most room could be shaved off to cut down costs as well? Just a thought for the new buyers I guess.


John

Most message boards are charged for page views. On Threadjackers where I usually post, the first 50K page views per month were free - after that is is $1.50 per 5000 page views per month...which doesn't sound like alot at first. But in one month we have almost 550K page views - or $150 a month just for page views. That does not include the bandwidth for avatars or signature pictures.

On this board, as at Seven Wonders, chit chat has the most current activity and page views....so it's easy to see why the monthly costs become staggering over time.

[Rickypt]

and the last thing this place needs is more people.

I think it needs a lot more active posters.

[carrie721]

Most message boards are charged for page views. On Threadjackers where I usually post, the first 50K page views per month were free - after that is is $1.50 per 5000 page views per month...which doesn't sound like alot at first. But in one month we have almost 550K page views - or $150 a month just for page views. That does not include the bandwidth for avatars or signature pictures.

On this board, as at Seven Wonders, chit chat has the most current activity and page views....so it's easy to see why the monthly costs become staggering over time.

whoa, someone is actually paying for threadjackers??

[KarmaContestant]

That's because threads get deleted daily. :laugh: They have a 'no opinions allowed' policy I think. Plus there doesn't seem to be anyone there. Go figure!! :p

Well...the 'no opinions' thing is very recent. As a member there for 3 years, almost, it wasn't always that way.

And no one is there because the top posters have all been banned - including myself. It went from 277 registered users a day down to 50.

[carrie721]

^^ three years? i thought that place was created late 2005?

[#1LiddyBuckFan]

Well...the 'no opinions' thing is very recent. As a member there for 3 years, almost, it wasn't always that way.

And no one is there because the top posters have all been banned - including myself. It went from 277 registered users a day down to 50.

Yeah, I heard about that...craziness. :nod:

[Sarah]

I think it needs a lot more active posters.

I think a lot of registered people are intimidated to post because of the clique mentality. It doesn't really bother me... as much as some people want me to stfu, I want them to stfu, too.. know what I mean? In that respect, I'm perfectly okay with being a black sheep. ;)

But we don't need more fanboy/fangirl drama like a lot of other places have. That stuff is just sickening, and it does keep people with interesting things to say far, far away.

[KarmaContestant]

whoa, someone is actually paying for threadjackers??

No, not at this time. :lol: Although pretty much all of the 80+ members that moved there from 7W offered to contribute to operations, it was decided that we'd stick with the free board. No perks...but unlimited page views.

I don't know what the current bandwidth policy is over there. :shrug:

[danax6]

^^ three years? i thought that place was created late 2005?Yeah, october or november 2005. So not even two years.

[KarmaContestant]

^^ three years? i thought that place was created late 2005?

Wait...maybe so. ??? Yes, it was mid-to-late '05. So, almost two years.

And I do accounting. SCARY, huh? :woohoo:

[carrie721]

I don't know what the current bandwidth policy is over there. :shrug:

um, didn't you post it up the page?

[carrie721]

Yeah, october or november 2005. So not even two years.

you don't know the exact date? do i have to strip you of your "the"? :D

[KarmaContestant]

um, didn't you post it up the page?

No...that was page views. Bandwidth is different. Bandwidth is a separate charge from page views. Pages with no pictures use less bandwidth, regardless of how many times they are viewed.

[catinthedark]

I just learned how to use the 'enhanced posting' option, so don't feel bad :lol:

there's an "enhanced posting" option?

[carrie721]

No...that was page views. Bandwidth is different. Bandwidth is a separate charge from page views. Pages with no pictures use less bandwidth, regardless of how many times they are viewed.

then someone is paying the $150 for the page views? :confused:

[danax6]

you don't know the exact date? do i have to strip you of your "the"? :DFine. October 10, 2005. :cool:

[carrie721]

Fine. October 10, 2005. :cool:

LOL. ilu nessie!!! :xoxo: :xoxo: :xoxo:

[KarmaContestant]

then someone is paying the $150 for the page views? :confused:


No! :lol: We decided to go with the free board! Unlimited page views - and a limited amount of bandwidth - and no dedicated server space. No fancy smilies, nothing hi-tech. Very simple, much like this place.

Edit: Except this place does have dedicated server space.

[Rickypt]

I think a lot of registered people are intimidated to post because of the clique mentality. It doesn't really bother me... as much as some people want me to stfu, I want them to stfu, too.. know what I mean? In that respect, I'm perfectly okay with being a black sheep. ;)

But we don't need more fanboy/fangirl drama like a lot of other places have. That stuff is just sickening, and it does keep people with interesting things to say far, far away.

I like all types of posters and think it makes for a more interesting experience, but I get where you're coming from. And, even though I never agree with you, I don't want you to stfu. :cool:

[BlackWidow]

I think a lot of registered people are intimidated to post because of the clique mentality. It doesn't really bother me... as much as some people want me to stfu, I want them to stfu, too.. know what I mean? In that respect, I'm perfectly okay with being a black sheep. ;)

But we don't need more fanboy/fangirl drama like a lot of other places have. That stuff is just sickening, and it does keep people with interesting things to say far, far away.

I hear ya..there are always bully's on every board.
I walk lightly and carry a big stick!

[estranged4life]

i was kidding :p

I wasn't...I know, I know "I'm a nerd" (As someone close to me loves to say daily) :lol:

Hell, I just received my first PC (aka Piece (of) Crap) and DSL...I am WAY behind the 8 ball.

[Musicman408]

I hear ya..there are always bully's on every board.
I walk lightly and carry a big stick!

Just like Teddy Rosevelt, and everyone loved him. :nod:

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Gah, a big NO on more forums. We really don't need Seven Wonders 2.0, where you first have to spend 10 minutes determining where to post a new thread.

I agree! :thumbsup:

[Musicman408]

I agree! :thumbsup:

Me too, you beat me too it. I like The Ledge, just the way it is. :nod:

[danax6]

Me too, you beat me too it. I like The Ledge, just the way it is. :nod:Oh, is that why you started five threads on how you would like to change the Ledge?

[GardenStateGirlie]

Oh, is that why you started five threads on how you would like to change the Ledge?

you took the words right out of my mouth... :nod:

[DrummerDeanna]

Oh, is that why you started five threads on how you would like to change the Ledge?

I can think of one thing I'd change on the Ledge right off the bat. ;)



guesses?


I wish I had the disposable income to pursue something like this - though I know I'd never be able to be impartial...

[shackin'up]

I just learned how to use the 'enhanced posting' option,

What the hell is that???

[KarmaContestant]

I don't remember The Ledge being so snarky a few years ago when I joined a couple years back. What happened? :confused: Many of the same members are here.

This is definitely not an inclusive community. Maybe The Ledge being sold is the best thing for many of you. :shrug:

:wavey:

[estranged4life]

What the hell is that???

my Dutch friend...:thumbsup:

Well if the ledge would to finally cease to exist I guess I would be off to look at Porn and worship Satan on a permanent basis :lol:

[catinthedark]

I can think of one thing I'd change on the Ledge right off the bat. ;)



guesses?


oooh! oooh! pick me! pick meeeeeeeeeee!!!


jeeesus :rolleyes:

[catinthedark]

Me too, you beat me too it. I like The Ledge, just the way it is. :nod:

ok, if i were as technologically talented as most people here, i'd go back and repost all your posts in this one thread. you've given me whiplash ten times over.

have an opinion. state it (once would be good). stick with it.

(oh, and there's no need to answer a post just to say, i totally agree with you - especially when two posts earlier, you said the opposite thing).

[Musicman408]

Oh, is that why you started five threads on how you would like to change the Ledge?

I was refering to the fact that I like the way the forums are set up. :nod:

And Deanna, you know you love me.:nod:

[DrummerDeanna]

oooh! oooh! pick me! pick meeeeeeeeeee!!!


jeeesus :rolleyes:


Nah...I'd never pick you....well not for anything bad, anyway :p A fellow dog lover and radio worker can't be bad, afterall.

And Deanna, you know you love me.

Um ok. I don't know that I do - but whatever.


This is definitely not an inclusive community. Maybe The Ledge being sold is the best thing for many of you.

It goes through phases, I've been on here since 2001ish or so - cliques have come and gone - morons have come and gone - it all goes in cycles. I'll stop there for fear of sounding too much like Lindsey - once the word cycles is mentioned it can only go downhill.

[catinthedark]

Nah...I'd never pick you....well not for anything bad, anyway :p A fellow dog lover and radio worker can't be bad, afterall.



hahahaha - okay. that made me laugh out loud. my hand was wildly waving in the air so you'd call on me to field a guess. ;)

and i bet you i'd guess right.

[DeeGeMe]

I hate that they are selling now when there is so much bitterness and anger between the various FM communities. I worry about it falling into the wrong hands and certain revenge factors coming into play. I understand why they might want to sell but I hope that they are very careful about who they sell too.

[ThePenguin]

Hi again--

This thread has taken a few twists and turns, but I wanted to comment on a few of the issues in it. Lis and I have been having a difficult time assessing a value for the site-- if you are truly interested, just make an offer and send it to me privately by email ([email protected]) or by PM. We are going to select a few and pursue them further. The cost of running the site is not as large as people might think and neither is bandwidth-- that's not as expensive as it used to be. There is some revenue stream in the site through the Amazon, Ebay, GEMM, and Supporting Ledgie fees--- they probably cover a bulk of the costs. After that, perhaps it is the cost of a utility bill monthly. It's not much, really. I am positive that the revenue streams can be developed further, too, without being intrusive to visitors. The decision to sell the site has much more to with the time involved, and where Lis and I are in our lives right now, than it does the monthly costs of running it. I think the site is an absolute treasure trove of information and the right individual can develop it even further. I would love for it to continue and to flourish and am hopeful that it will.

- Marty

[SteveMacD]

This thread has taken a few twists and turns, but I wanted to comment on a few of the issues in it. Lis and I have been having a difficult time assessing a value for the site-- if you are truly interested, just make an offer and send it to me privately by email ([email protected]) or by PM. We are going to select a few and pursue them further. The cost of running the site is not as large as people might think and neither is bandwidth-- that's not as expensive as it used to be. There is some revenue stream in the site through the Amazon, Ebay, GEMM, and Supporting Ledgie fees--- they probably cover a bulk of the costs. After that, perhaps it is the cost of a utility bill monthly. It's not much, really. I am positive that the revenue streams can be developed further, too, without being intrusive to visitors. The decision to sell the site has much more to with the time involved, and where Lis and I are in our lives right now, than it does the monthly costs of running it. I think the site is an absolute treasure trove of information and the right individual can develop it even further. I would love for it to continue and to flourish and am hopeful that it will.

Marty, your longevity has always amazed me. I found that the little site I had was challenging enough to maintain. I couldn't imagine doing this in addition to having a family.

[BTFLCHLD]

twists and turns

After reading this thread, I post this message for those who should receive:

Find some respect.


Marty & Lis - thank you for bringing us The Penguin.
I hope everything happens as you wish.

[estranged4life]

After reading this thread, I post this message for those who should receive:

Find some respect.


Marty & Lis - thank you for bringing us The Penguin.
I hope everything happens as you wish.

with ya, thanks Marty & Lis!!! I bow and courtsey to y'all. :D

[JWS]

Just a thought...the Ledge could merge with Seven Wonders to form a mega board. Call it the WonderLedge. :blob1:

[BlackWidow]

I don't remember The Ledge being so snarky a few years ago when I joined a couple years back. What happened? :confused: Many of the same members are here.

This is definitely not an inclusive community. Maybe The Ledge being sold is the best thing for many of you. :shrug:

:wavey:

...then the dizzy divas would have no life at all. :lol:

[Moony]

this is a shame. moony

[[email protected]]

Just a thought...the Ledge could merge with Seven Wonders to form a mega board. Call it the WonderLedge. :blob1:

Surely, you are JOKING?
No one merges with a sinking ship (7 Wonders).

I hope someone wonderful buys the Ledge,
and it continues just as Marty and Lisa have done...
Kudos to you two, for keeping this board so popular
and great for such a long time, and I wish you, and the board,
all the best!

[SpyNote]

I wonder if Warner Bros. is going to make an offer. I don't think it would be a good idea to sell to them, but I'd imagine they could make one irresistible offer.

[HejiraNYC]

Lis and I have been having a difficult time assessing a value for the site-- if you are truly interested, just make an offer and send it to me privately by email ([email protected]) or by PM. We are going to select a few and pursue them further.

- Marty

Marty, thanks for your tireless, generous work! You have enriched so many lives (as well as helping to feed our FM addictions). :p

I am just wondering... can you provide a fact sheet with the actual numbers- revenue vs. overhead, the time needed to maintain the site, a description of the maintenance tasks, the system/hardware requirements, etc.? I don't mean to be so nosy... but, just like any prospective buyer of a business, this is information that is essential for determining the monetary worth of anything. To be honest, the cost of a utility bill is not that frightening for me. However, the time investment sounds a bit intimidating...

Details, man, details! :wavey:

[ThePenguin]

The site is rather well set up and intervention, with no updates, is minimal. It takes a little bit of time to approve people for posting to the Ledge, a task I'll admit I fall behind in frequently. When the server goes down, it takes some troubleshooting too. Several of the scripts, including The Ledge, have wonderful admin sections so that non-administrators can run them too and provide updates. This includes the Second Hand News, Blue Letter Archives, and the Penguin Discography script (this one I built from scratch and wetcamelfood can attest that it is easy to add content rapidly). I would suggest whoever ends up with the site simply assumes the account for the dedicated server on which the Penguin runs; its affordable and the internet company has been great to work with; I've been with them for several years and they are by far the best in The Penguin's history. I would, of course, help in the transition and give all passwords to set someone up. I'll take them through the software that I use to update the site and would frankly be available for years to assist when needed. I do want the site to continue and will help in that regard even after we no longer own it.

When I was personally continually updating the site (probably years 0 - 8 of the site), it did take *a lot* of time, but this was by choice. It was fun though and it is exciting to get immediate results. I think any new owner will find that the fan community can help to provide a wealth of information (and critiques).

Hope that helps.

- Marty

[TulsaMINI]

Rulers make bad lovers
You better put your Penguin up for sale


:lol:

[Raeven Skye]

Just a thought...the Ledge could merge with Seven Wonders to form a mega board. Call it the WonderLedge. :blob1:

OMG..I have a headache!

I wish all good things for The Ledge. I feel sure that someone who loves and resepects it will take it on.

[Steviefan49]

Surely, you are JOKING?
No one merges with a sinking ship (7 Wonders).

I hope someone wonderful buys the Ledge,
and it continues just as Marty and Lisa have done...
Kudos to you two, for keeping this board so popular
and great for such a long time, and I wish you, and the board,
all the best!

I have to put my "AMEN" on this note! Thanks SOOOO much to Marty and Lisa for keeping this AWESOME board running for SOOOO many wonderful years!

[BlackWidow]

:laugh: Rulers make bad lovers
You better put your Penguin up for sale


:lol:

:distress: :laugh: :distress: :laugh:

[carrie721]

Maybe The Ledge being sold is the best thing for many of you. :shrug:

:wavey:

nice passive-aggressive jab there - the insult coupled with the wavey. that's cute!

Yeah, my 2 cents

justin. you. me. vegas. wedding chapel. now!

your two cents brings all the girls to the yard!!1

[#1LiddyBuckFan]

nice passive-aggressive jab there - the insult coupled with the wavey. that's cute!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[eclipse]

I am so sad to read this news...

I hope that somehow and someway someone can purchase and run the board.
Although without Marty and Lisa's input...It will never be the same:(
Thank you both for all you have done and do...
Fondly,
Anna

[wetcamelfood]

Several of the scripts, including The Ledge, have wonderful admin sections so that non-administrators can run them too and provide updates. This includes the Second Hand News, Blue Letter Archives, and the Penguin Discography script (this one I built from scratch and wetcamelfood can attest that it is easy to add content rapidly).

Yes, I agree! ...and I'm positive that once things get back on track via the transfer it wouldn't take too long to get the discog up to date again.

I also don't know how I forgot to say kudos to Marty & Lis before too, it'd sure be hard to imagine my life without the Penguin since I got online in 2000 & it's all been good with this site in my life since then. :)

John

[carrie721]

I imagine yo-o-o-o-uuuu make modding fun, Carrie. ;)

:eek: :eek: :eek:

why i never!!

[SortaSavageLike]

:eek: :eek: :eek:

why i never!!

It's allllll you wanna doooo...!:blob1:

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Just a thought...the Ledge could merge with Seven Wonders to form a mega board. Call it the WonderLedge. :blob1:

:eek: :eek: In a word no!!

[BlackWidow]

:eek: :eek: In a word no!!

That's Un' ceptable!!!! :laugh:

[Steviefan49]

:eek: :eek: In a word no!!

How about 2 words.. "HELL NO"! LOL:p

[JazmenFlowers]

sorry to see this, but I completely understand the reasons. I hope someone great buys it that will nurture it. thanks Adelsons for all you've done. :wavey:

[michelle2677]

so?



who bought it? or is buying it? anyone know?

[buckymcnix]

so?



who bought it? or is buying it? anyone know?

I vote we take up a collection, buy it and then give controlling interest to Bob Welch.

Seriously

[wetcamelfood]

so?



who bought it? or is buying it? anyone know?

I'm glad you gave this a bump as I wasn't sure whether to or not. :)

I vote we take up a collection

I noticed that there are about 50 supporting ledgies, maybe if it was split between all of us it might not be bad (though I admit I have no idea how much the site costs) and we could divi out the duties, just an idea. What do you think SL's? :)

I'd love to continue work on the discog (don't know how long Marty will "just keep the site up" but regardless, the more days this goes on the more back log there'll be to enter) but I'll need someone to help with the tech stuff since all I know how to do is the entry.

Anyways, if the other SL's are in to this, say so here and which parts you'd like to do so we can see if we can cover all the parts that'd need to be taken care of (and please do say if you know what the costs would be per person, as who knows, it probably does cost more than I think it would if it was split out like this and I know Marty would prefer not to do it this way but I guess all we can do is assume there haven't been any offers on the site as a whole or I'm sure he'd have said by now but I think Marty said something in his last post here about the cost as being like a "utility bill" so it might not be bad, depending on which utility he had in mind I guess that is of course). :)

John

[michelle2677]

^^^the only thing I'm afraid of is, if we get too many cooks in the kitchen, not only will nothing get done, but I don't think the site will last that long. The Penguin, yes-just hand out duties of who logs stuff in, but the ledge? that's another demon all in itself. imagine 50 people fighting over how it should be run. That was the only problem I had with offering to buy the site. I had some cash flow, but not enough to buy it on my own, but it would have to be split between a few people and I personally think that's a bad idea. That and the fact i doubt they'd sell it to me :laugh:

anyway, just a thought.

[wetcamelfood]

^^^the only thing I'm afraid of is, if we get too many cooks in the kitchen, not only will nothing get done, but I don't think the site will last that long. The Penguin, yes-just hand out duties of who logs stuff in, but the ledge? that's another demon all in itself. imagine 50 people fighting over how it should be run. That was the only problem I had with offering to buy the site. I had some cash flow, but not enough to buy it on my own, but it would have to be split between a few people and I personally think that's a bad idea. That and the fact i doubt they'd sell it to me :laugh:

anyway, just a thought.

OK fair enough, good points. :)

John

[buckymcnix]

i agree michelle - so many cooks . . . etc

I am serious though - a collection and give it to Bob Welch.
We know he loves the penguin.
No one would have any real say in how it was being run if they contributed - it would only be say, a lifetime supporting membership or something.

I just feel that Bob would at least care enough to keep the penguin part up and going.

as to the ledge? myeh -he could keep it going if he liked or let it go the way of 7 wonders as long as the penguin is preserved. .

jmo

[BlackWidow]

i agree michelle - so many cooks . . . etc

I am serious though - a collection and give it to Bob Welch.
We know he loves the penguin.
No one would have any real say in how it was being run if they contributed - it would only be say, a lifetime supporting membership or something.

I just feel that Bob would at least care enough to keep the penguin part up and going.

as to the ledge? myeh -he could keep it going if he liked or let it go the way of 7 wonders as long as the penguin is preserved. .

jmo

hm..something to think about. How are ya these days?

[Kelly]

I am not sure it is wise to assume there are no potential buyers in place already. :shrug: We know offers have been made and negotiations take time, etc. The new potential owners might want to remain anonymous.
I doubt Marty would tell us about any possible commitments or deal closures. :shrug: The thing that worries me is a new owner/owners not wanting to deal with the Ledge. The Penguin needs to be preserved but the Ledge might just be a huge headache for a potential buyer. It is important to the fans who post here but it is also alot of work, time and expense. With nothing much in return, except for problems. :D I hope a new buyer will see the value of the forums, too. ....:nod:

[wetcamelfood]

I know what you mean Michelle but I get the feeling that Welch feels busy enough as it is with his own site but who knows, we could e mail him at his site and see what he thinks about it I guess.

Points well taken Kelly, maybe I shouldn't have said that but I just hope something can be worked out soon, just getting itchy feel is all. :)

I completely agree though that the PENGUIN needs to be saved. Yes, it would be nice to save the LEDGE but if something had to be cut I think this is it.

A friend I was talking to about it suggested maybe a blog idea instead so FM related info (which, at the end of the day, is really what this board is supposed to be for) would still get posted but save the space, time, $ & headaches associated with running the LEDGE.

So, hopefully something will be worked out at least for the PENGUIN soon. :)

John

[Sahara]

Not sure if this has been addressed already -- is there a time limit on this? If an agreement isn't reached by date X or whatever...?
I had it in my head that if there were no offers we'd be gone by the end of August, but I may have made that up ...! :p

[Sarah]

I haven't noticed any notices of that sort, Sahara. Not my impression, anyway.