Nicks steps onstage and back in time on new tour

[MacMan]

Boston Herald (http://theedge.bostonherald.com/musicNews/view.bg?articleid=1006690&srvc=edge)

Some stars reflect on past mistakes and claim they wouldn’t change a thing. Not Stevie Nicks.

The rock goddess, who plays the Tweeter Center tomorrow with Chris Isaak, may weave layers of ambiguity through her songs, but she’s straightforward about her desire to erase almost two decades of drug abuse.

Nicks battled a cocaine habit from 1977 to 1986, and almost immediately after, an eight-year addiction to the tranquilizer Klonopin.

“I would absolutely do it differently,” Nicks said from a tour stop in New York City. “Cocaine almost ruined my life. And if I hadn’t done Klonopin, I would have made two or three more fantastic albums. I lost most of my 40s to Klonopin and that really makes me mad, because your 40s are great. Maybe that’s why I see through 40-year-old eyes, because I lost my 40s, so I’m trying to get a little of my 40s

If Nicks is making up for lost time, she’s doing it in style. For her Crystal Visions Tour, the singer/songwriter has a girly new wardrobe that helps her slip into the persona of an ageless rock star even as she creeps toward 60.

“I think you really can feel the age that you want to be depending on where you are, what clothes you’re wearing, what boots you’re wearing, how your hair is. You can really keep yourself in a very youthful place if you want to. And I don’t really want to be 59. I want to be like 40, so I look at my life through 40-year-old eyes when it comes to going on the stage.”

Nicks’ tour supports her new “Crystal Visions” CD/DVD, which celebrates her solo work and with Fleetwood Mac.

Though the Mac roared back with 2003’s “Say You Will,” the groups future hangs in the balance with the departure of keyboardist/singer Christine McVie.

“I was very not inspired by not having Christine on the last tour,” Nicks said. “I miss her more than you could imagine, more than I could have even imagined. So I hope that one of these days, Christine’s going to get up in her English castle and say, ‘I’m bored. I’m going to call Stevie and I’m going to do this Fleetwood Mac thing one more time.’ Because I don’t know if I’ll be happy doing it again without her. It just doesn’t seem right to me.

While another solo album is also a possibility, Nicks is also interested in turning the Welsh mythological stories of Rhiannon into a movie, and making a cartoon out of a story she wrote at age 17 - “So that was like 100 years ago,” she said.

But while Nicks pokes fun at her age and escapes into a younger version of herself onstage, she also embraces growing older.

“In my real life I’m very much aware that I’m 59, because my life’s experience is based on 59 years,” she said. “And that part I really like, because I feel like I’m very wise now. I see mistakes coming and I avoid them. When I was 40, I didnt.”

[danax6]

“I was very not inspired by not having Christine on the last tour,” Nicks said. “I miss her more than you could imagine, more than I could have even imagined. So I hope that one of these days, Christine’s going to get up in her English castle and say, ‘I’m bored. I’m going to call Stevie and I’m going to do this Fleetwood Mac thing one more time.’ Because I don’t know if I’ll be happy doing it again without her. It just doesn’t seem right to me.
This is starting to piss me off more and more. First it was only an album, now she's bitching about a tour also. You know, when you think about it, a solo tour is not all that different from a Mac tour. Solo she still has a male guitarist (two even), a male keyboardist and a male drummer. Both times the only girls on stage are the back-up singers. So her whole 'it was too much of a masculine environment - too much testosterone' is not going to fly. :rolleyes:

[Musicman408]

This is starting to piss me off more and more. First it was only an album, now she's bitching about a tour also. You know, when you think about it, a solo tour is not all that different from a Mac tour. Solo she still has a male guitarist (two even), a male keyboardist and a male drummer. Both times the only girls on stage are the back-up singers. So her whole 'it was too much of a masculine environment - too much testosterone' is not going to fly. :rolleyes:

I don't know if I agree about the bitching, but it is nice to see such a positive review of the tour and such.

[jannieC]

This is starting to piss me off more and more. First it was only an album, now she's bitching about a tour also. You know, when you think about it, a solo tour is not all that different from a Mac tour. Solo she still has a male guitarist (two even), a male keyboardist and a male drummer. Both times the only girls on stage are the back-up singers. So her whole 'it was too much of a masculine environment - too much testosterone' is not going to fly. :rolleyes:

Maybe what she's saying is that Fleetwood Mac, not touring itself, doesn't feel right without Christine. I can completely see why she would feel that way.

[Kelly]

This is starting to piss me off more and more. First it was only an album, now she's bitching about a tour also. You know, when you think about it, a solo tour is not all that different from a Mac tour. Solo she still has a male guitarist (two even), a male keyboardist and a male drummer. Both times the only girls on stage are the back-up singers. So her whole 'it was too much of a masculine environment - too much testosterone' is not going to fly. :rolleyes:


Just an excuse. ;)

She knows full well that Christine won't tour..
At least she isn't blaming Lindsey directly this time. :laugh:

[Musicman408]

Just an excuse. ;)

She knows full well that Christine won't tour..
At least she isn't blaming Lindsey directly this time. :laugh:

Yeah, it's just a clever diversion. :laugh:

[SuzeQuze]

I'm happy that she's finally admitting that she would do things differently. No more bullsh*t about not changing a thing or she'd be a different person. Losing 20 years of your life to addictions isn't fun and it's good for her to admit that. Maybe she'll discourage someone from picking up by being so candid. Psychologists do say that addicts don't mature while using so Stevie probably really is only 39 emotionally.

[vermicious knid]

Note to Stevie: stop speaking fondly of Christine. Nobody wants to hear that kind of "bitching".

[Johnny Stew]

This is starting to piss me off more and more. First it was only an album, now she's bitching about a tour also. You know, when you think about it, a solo tour is not all that different from a Mac tour. Solo she still has a male guitarist (two even), a male keyboardist and a male drummer. Both times the only girls on stage are the back-up singers. So her whole 'it was too much of a masculine environment - too much testosterone' is not going to fly. :rolleyes:The difference being... which fans seem to forget... is that a solo tour is a very different animal.

On a solo tour, if Waddy or Carlos want to do something that Stevie isn't on board with, she gets the final say. She's the boss.
In Fleetwood Mac, and without Christine, if the boys all want to do something a certain way, Stevie's completely outnumbered.

Sure, Sharon & Jana are there on stage with Fleetwood Mac, too -- but they're just hired guns. They're just there to flesh out the sound -- they don't get to have an opinion, and they're certainly not a part of the band dynamic. So they have absolutely nothing to do with whether the atmosphere of the shows is more "masculine" or more "feminine."

Christine, on the other hand, is an EQUAL, and obviously pulls more weight in the band than Stevie does -- otherwise, Lindsey wouldn't have gone on and on about how much more they could "rock out" and "be guys" without Christine there.

Stevie's certainly not the only one in the band who said that everything was far more "testosterone-driven" without Christine.

[Serrart]

This is starting to piss me off more and more. First it was only an album, now she's bitching about a tour also. You know, when you think about it, a solo tour is not all that different from a Mac tour. Solo she still has a male guitarist (two even), a male keyboardist and a male drummer. Both times the only girls on stage are the back-up singers. So her whole 'it was too much of a masculine environment - too much testosterone' is not going to fly. :rolleyes:

This is a rockstar who toured mostly with men for all her life. I really don't think what she misses is chatting about girlie topics with Christine McVie (even If I'm sure it must be great to see them chatting) but the fact that Christine's presence brings a balance in the egos battle during a Mac tour. Obviously last time she didn't have a great fun.

Romy

[Hawkeye]

This is starting to piss me off more and more. First it was only an album, now she's bitching about a tour also. You know, when you think about it, a solo tour is not all that different from a Mac tour. Solo she still has a male guitarist (two even), a male keyboardist and a male drummer. Both times the only girls on stage are the back-up singers. So her whole 'it was too much of a masculine environment - too much testosterone' is not going to fly. :rolleyes:

I think it's more of who's NOT on stage for her solo tours!

[GarboSpeaks!]

^^ What you all said. haha. I think when Stevie is on tour w/ Fleetwood Mac, that when Chris was around, if the guys rubbed her the wrong way, she could confide in Chris and Chris would get it. And the opposite I am sure. Though I am also sure Chris takes no s*** from anyone on a tour. But still. When SN is on tour solo, I specualte it's Waddy that's her confidant or rock. I don't think she has the relationship she used to have w/ her girls. I think they are still friends and all, but that "sisterhood" overwhelmingly felt in prior tours etc., seems long faded. I think what it all boils down to is that Stevie's nostalgic, and the SYW tour just wasn't like all the others. If there is another go round to be had, I think she really wants it to include Christine...like old times.

[danax6]

Note to Stevie: stop speaking fondly of Christine. Nobody wants to hear that kind of "bitching".Thank you for twisting around my words, but that's not what I was saying.

On a solo tour, if Waddy or Carlos want to do something that Stevie isn't on board with, she gets the final say. She's the boss. In Fleetwood Mac, and without Christine, if the boys all want to do something a certain way, Stevie's completely outnumbered.Of course, but then I still stand by what I said, stop coming up with excuses and just say that you feel outnumbered, not that it's no Fleetwood Mac without Christine. Just blame Lindsey again.

[Johnny Stew]

Of course, but then I still stand by what I said, stop coming up with excuses and just say that you feel outnumbered, not that it's no Fleetwood Mac without Christine.She already has said that. She said it in some of the Australian interviews, and she said it in a radio interview prior to the first Vegas shows.

So she has articulated both feelings... that it's too much of a boy's club without Christine, and that it also just doesn't feel like Fleetwood Mac without Christine.

Several years ago, she also said that she realized back in the late '80s and early '90s that it just wasn't Fleetwood Mac without Lindsey either.

Certainly other people see it differently, but, for Stevie, her Fleetwood Mac, is the Fleetwood Mac that she first played with. Anything else... to her... just doesn't feel like Fleetwood Mac.

I don't see how she could say it any clearer.

[RockALittle250]

One thing that happened on the SYW tour, as i recall it, was that Lindsey had told Stevie she shoudn't be dressing up in her costumes or girly clothes (something to that effect) and she should just be casual on stage...and Stevie was NOT pleased by this (as you all can imagine). If Chris was there, Lindsey would have kept his mouth shut about that...

[GardenStateGirlie]

if the boys all want to do something a certain way, Stevie's completely outnumbered.

do you honestly believe that? i love me some la nicks just as much as the next person but i dare say stevie is the keeper of the keys, if you will. i think the fact that she is the only member of the bunch with a seriously viable solo career [and that is certainly no jab at lindsey] gets thrown around a lot and used to her advantage. i can see if she doesn't get her own way that she'd threaten to walk. we saw that kind of behavior in the documentary. jmo, of course.

[Glittermoondust]

One thing that happened on the SYW tour, as i recall it, was that Lindsey had told Stevie she shoudn't be dressing up in her costumes or girly clothes (something to that effect) and she should just be casual on stage...and Stevie was NOT pleased by this (as you all can imagine). If Chris was there, Lindsey would have kept his mouth shut about that...

Well thank God she didn't listen to him for this current tour--her clothes for this tour ROCKS!! :thumbsup:

[Johnny Stew]

do you honestly believe that? i love me some la nicks just as much as the next person but i dare say stevie is the keeper of the keys, if you will. i think the fact that she is the only member of the bunch with a seriously viable solo career [and that is certainly no jab at lindsey] gets thrown around a lot and used to her advantage. i can see if she doesn't get her own way that she'd threaten to walk. we saw that kind of behavior in the documentary. jmo, of course.Yes, we saw that kind of behavior in the documentary... from Lindsey. You know, the fellow who threatened to take back two-thirds of his songs and leave the band with the "safest" stuff, if they didn't go along with his plan for a double-album ("I own the masters").

There's only one primadonna in Fleetwood Mac, and it's not Stevie Nicks.

[danax6]

She already has said that. She said it in some of the Australian interviews, and she said it in a radio interview prior to the first Vegas shows.Hm, I don't think she's ever specifically said "They're all mean old buggers and I never get to weigh in on the decisions, if Christine had been there we both would have told everyone to shove it where the sun doesn't shine.".

Especially the Christine stuff is something that didn't start until a few weeks ago. It used to always be 'sure, we miss Christine, but we're having a great time, we get to do something different now'. It's always the bitching after the fact, and I'm just not buying it. First it was an album, now it's suddenly also a tour. I can get on board with recording an album and missing that presence, but on tour? They don't even have to see each other outside of those two hours on stage.

[danax6]

Yes, we saw that kind of behavior in the documentary... from Lindsey. You know, the fellow who threatened to take back two-thirds of his songs and leave the band with the "safest" stuff, if they didn't go along with his plan for a double-album ("I own the masters").

There's only one primadonna in Fleetwood Mac, and it's not Stevie Nicks.Nope, Stevie did it also. She threatened to do only 40 dates if she didn't get her way and Lindsey had to compromise.

[Kelly]

Yes, we saw that kind of behavior in the documentary... from Lindsey. You know, the fellow who threatened to take back two-thirds of his songs and leave the band with the "safest" stuff, if they didn't go along with his plan for a double-album ("I own the masters").

There's only one primadonna in Fleetwood Mac, and it's not Stevie Nicks.


Whoa. I cannot hardly believe you actually see Stevie as something other than a primadonna. :eek:
The carefully crafted "documentary" was one hour of nine hundred. No doubt Stevie's diva moves were purposely left out. :rolleyes:

Lindsey didn't threaten to leave the band....he just made a point that he owns his masters. So what? He does. :shrug:

Stevie's sudden and random complaining about Christine is lame. Just admit the truth already.


As far as the other comment about Stevie's clothes, from someone else, uh, he asked her if they could dress casual. He did not force her to wear anything....he asked her if they could go more casual this tour. Last time I checked Stevie was supposedly Miss Independent....why in the world would Lindsey be telling her what to wear? Stevie didn't sound upset when she talked about the cardigan on Jim Ladd....she actually said it was "fine".

[shackin'up]

Yes, we saw that kind of behavior in the documentary... from Lindsey. You know, the fellow who threatened to take back two-thirds of his songs and leave the band with the "safest" stuff, if they didn't go along with his plan for a double-album ("I own the masters").

There's only one primadonna in Fleetwood Mac, and it's not Stevie Nicks.

I just can't believe a fan is saying that. Lindsey tossed in his whole soloalbum and he and Mick agreed on a Macrecord with his stuff as the backbone for starters; the startidea WAS a double-album, and Mick was psyched by the idea initially. It's all in the doc too. Are you just watching it partial? Lindsey came back to the band after a ten year hiatus and agreed on working on Stevie's demos without her being present for a long time. Now -try to be as objective as possible, Stevie is the primadonna, Lindsey is the arrogant artistic director. But if his vision is being aborted by commercial arguments and your initial "partner-in-double-album" is turning his back on you, you can just logically expect someone's going to fight with all arms available. In this case: his own material.

That's not primadonnabehaviour, it's a game between three strong ego's with different views on a project. First LB is provided with room to move and as the project went on, they tried to increase that space. Maybe with great realistic arguments, and by that time with more "right" to battle, since they gained more "ownership" as the recording developped, esp. Stevie, but it is still very understandable that he's confronting Mick with some change-of-vision-facts and the possible consequences.

After all the unhappiness of Miss Nicks about SYW and the Tour, and the nostalgia-act-tour of Stevie-solo, I just don't believe in a Mac-future anymore. Or Lindsey is pulling back his need to devellop and just agrees to do a Stevie-solo-tour with Macmembers and some Lindsey-hits. Well as you all know, we are all waiting in awe for that.

[danax6]

I just can't believe a fan is saying that. Lindsey tossed in his whole soloalbum and he and Mick agreed on a Macrecord with his stuff as the backbone for starters; the startidea WAS a double-album, and Mick was psyched by the idea initially. It's all in the doc too. Are you just watching it partial? Lindsey came back to the band after a ten year hiatus and agreed on working on Stevie's demos without her being present for a long time. Now -try to be as objective as possible, Stevie is the primadonna, Lindsey is the arrogant artistic director. But if his vision is being aborted by commercial arguments and your initial "partner-in-double-album" is turning his back on you, you can just logically expect someone's going to fight with all arms available. In this case: his own material.
You know I agree with you on this. But if people want to say Lindsey's the primadonna, so be it. He's been called worse things. ;)

In all honesty I don't think Stevie threatening to pull out after 40 dates was a direct attack on Lindsey either, I think it had to do more with the record company than anything else, but the fact remains that she is capable of getting things done her way and she's not afraid to head right for the jugular.

She might feel outnumbered, but she isn't really. I am willing to put money on Mick choosing her side more often than Lindsey's. Well, when he's not too busy choosing Mr. Dollar's side, that is.

[AliceLover]

One thing that happened on the SYW tour, as i recall it, was that Lindsey had told Stevie she shoudn't be dressing up in her costumes or girly clothes (something to that effect) and she should just be casual on stage...and Stevie was NOT pleased by this (as you all can imagine). If Chris was there, Lindsey would have kept his mouth shut about that...

Well, no, he didn't TELL HER she should be dressing like that. He asked her if she could tone it down a bit and she said that was fine. Then she went into the whole thing about the button up sweater. Its in the Jim Ladd from 05 to promote the Vegas Shows (the interview of death for the fans).

[Kelly]

You know I agree with you on this. But if people want to say Lindsey's the primadonna, so be it. He's been called worse things. ;)

In all honesty I don't think Stevie threatening to pull out after 40 dates was a direct attack on Lindsey either, I think it had to do more with the record company than anything else, but the fact remains that she is capable of getting things done her way and she's not afraid to head right for the jugular.

She might feel outnumbered, but she isn't really. I am willing to put money on Mick choosing her side more often than Lindsey's. Well, when he's not too busy choosing Mr. Dollar's side, that is.



Yep, notice how Mick slandered and sold Lindsey up the river in his book, but said very few dirty details about Mama Nicks. He knows which side his bread is buttered on. Stevie's solo success ensured her power within the band, she knows it and uses it when necessary. Threatening to bail on the tour if she didn't get her way is a great example. Somehow Lindsey is the primadonna for stating that he owns the masters but poor, ganged up on Stevie threatens to bail on the band AND the fans and that is just overlooked. :rolleyes: Both SnL have huge egos, both know they have power and both use it when they need to.

BTW..it is so ridiculous imo, to use DR as the springboard for understanding the dynamics between the bandmembers. The thing was edited to portray the band in a certain way.

I agree that Stevie only started using the "without Chris, I won't tour" thing a few weeks ago. Down in NZ, didn't she tell FoxyLuva that FM was planning on touring again and adding some Christine songs???? No mention of Chris having to be a part of the band then. :laugh: Stevie prolly has her reason she doesn't want to tour anymore and I doubt it has anything to do with Christine McVie or Lindsey Buckingham. They are just always the convenient scapegoats. (Lindsey was even her scapegoat for her hideous SYW outfit choices!!)

[WelshWitchPMD]

As far as the other comment about Stevie's clothes, from someone else, uh, he asked her if they could dress casual. He did not force her to wear anything....he asked her if they could go more casual this tour. Last time I checked Stevie was supposedly Miss Independent....why in the world would Lindsey be telling her what to wear? Stevie didn't sound upset when she talked about the cardigan on Jim Ladd....she actually said it was "fine".

I have a feeling that there is a lot more to this wardrobe story than Stevie is letting on. I think that if they ever do any of Christine's songs (and I hope that they DON'T!) that it should be "Little Lies". :lol:

[shackin'up]

I am willing to put money on Mick choosing her side more often than Lindsey's.

Yeah, me too. As long as she's not there it's all Mr. Buckingham
as a musical visionaire, but as soon as she shows up, he's under her spell. And as long as her management speaks in dollars, he's willing to listen of course. In the case of SYW: the musical art direction was done for the major part. Lindsey was in and did his work-his task. After that, it was a new situation and then the commercially relevant thoughts dropped in. And Mick went in Stevie's direction-John is always neutral- so Lindsey's position went into underdog. Simple as that. Everything he thought and said from that moment can be attacked by "don't use a veto in a bandsituation dude". Very unchique. Don't get me wrong, he acted cocky and selfindulged too. But it's unfair to point him out as the primadonna.

Well. Wha-eva.

[RockALittle250]

As far as the other comment about Stevie's clothes, from someone else, uh, he asked her if they could dress casual. He did not force her to wear anything....he asked her if they could go more casual this tour. Last time I checked Stevie was supposedly Miss Independent....why in the world would Lindsey be telling her what to wear? Stevie didn't sound upset when she talked about the cardigan on Jim Ladd....she actually said it was "fine".

Yea, he asked her, not forced her, but she wasn't too happy about it. She said it was "fine", because Stevie is non-confrontational...she doesn't like starting problems. She makes light of things so they don't blow up into a big deal. Lindsey is a big baby, and if he doesn't get what he wants, he can be a brat, and Stevie doesn't like dealing with all that BS.

[Glittermoondust]

Well, no, he didn't TELL HER she should be dressing like that. He asked her if she could tone it down a bit and she said that was fine. Then she went into the whole thing about the button up sweater. Its in the Jim Ladd from 05 to promote the Vegas Shows (the interview of death for the fans).

Stevie should be able to wear whatever she wants.... it was her show too :shrug:

[shackin'up]

Yea, he asked her, not forced her, but she wasn't too happy about it. She said it was "fine", because Stevie is non-confrontational...she doesn't like starting problems. She makes light of things so they don't blow up into a big deal. Lindsey is a big baby, and if he doesn't get what he wants, he can be a brat, and Stevie doesn't like dealing with all that BS.

what a nice typecasting. stevie nonconfrontational in the neighbourhood of LB. that's the joke of the day. I object against the baby comment. The brat-thing, welll yeah, that's a fact.

[shackin'up]

Stevie should be able to wear whatever she wants.... it was her show too :shrug:

and have her wear a high hat that doesn't fit on her head while singing, so she constantly needs to hold it in place with her hands? That looks professional. Nah, wear simple but tasteful clothes and concentrate on what you do best. Singing. And let the music be impressive, not the wardrobe. (although that funeraldress was the other extreme. That wasn't necessary).

[Johnny Stew]

Especially the Christine stuff is something that didn't start until a few weeks ago. It used to always be 'sure, we miss Christine, but we're having a great time, we get to do something different now'. It's always the bitching after the fact, and I'm just not buying it.I don't understand why you think this is a new thing. From the very first interviews they did for 'Say You Will,' right before and just after the album came out, Stevie said MANY times that she deeply missed Christine. Even during the tour, she said that it didn't quite feel the same without her.

That is absolutely nothing new. Ask Christine's fans... they can tell you which of the Maccers said it "wasn't the same" without Chris and which didn't.

[shackin'up]

everyone said it wasn't the same. ofcourse it wasn't the same. the rest of the band had just taken it for a fact and looked at it as if the bottle was halffull, not halfempty.

[Johnny Stew]

Nope, Stevie did it also. She threatened to do only 40 dates if she didn't get her way and Lindsey had to compromise.See, that's the thing... we don't know that Stevie "threatened" to only do 40 dates.
No one in that documentary EVER said she threatened to do that.

All Lindsey said was that, "if there's even a chance that Stevie pulls out after the initial 40-dates -- I can't afford to take that chance."

He also... clearly... stated that, in order to release that double-album, he needed the band to do at least two years of touring AND another album, so that he'd make back the money he would lose by taking a hit on the royalties. If I remember correctly, he also said he needed them to tour after that album, too.

We've discussed this before on here, and everyone seems to conveniently forget all of that.

Should the rest of the band have had to commit to doing 2-3 years of touring and recording another album, just so Lindsey could make back money on an idea that Stevie & John were never thrilled about to begin with?

That's asking a lot, no?

So even if Stevie did say she might not want to (or be able to -- since we all know she was having health problems around that time) tour beyond 40-dates, shouldn't she have that right?
Christine said the same thing during the 'Dance' tour, and held true to her word -- she did those 40-45 shows and went home.

[Johnny Stew]

Whoa. I cannot hardly believe you actually see Stevie as something other than a primadonna. :eek:
The carefully crafted "documentary" was one hour of nine hundred. No doubt Stevie's diva moves were purposely left out. :rolleyes: I don't doubt for a second that she can be very difficult when she wants to be. She's even admitted as much about herself (just listen to her commentary for the "Every Day" video).

I just don't think she has the kind of leverage in Fleetwood Mac that you and a few others seem to think she does.

Lindsey didn't threaten to leave the band....he just made a point that he owns his masters. So what? He does. :shrug:Yes, and it sounded like a little kid saying, "this is MY ball and if you don't do what I want to, then I won't let you play with it!"

Stevie's sudden and random complaining about Christine is lame. Just admit the truth already.That's the point -- it's neither sudden nor random. She's been saying it since 2003.

She wasn't going to come right out and blab, "this all sucks without Christine." When was the last time you heard an actor say, "I hate my new movie -- don't even bother to go see it"? After the promotion is done, and they're no longer contractually obligated to help sell it, THEN they'll say, "I wasn't pleased with the way that movie came out at all -- it wasn't what I had signed on to do."

I don't recall Lindsey or Christine stating any displeasure with 'Mirage,' until after the fact.

And Stevie did say back in 2003 -- for anyone who cared to listen -- that she wasn't as happy without Christine. Now she's telling the rest of the story, too.

[Johnny Stew]

I just can't believe a fan is saying that. Lindsey tossed in his whole soloalbum and he and Mick agreed on a Macrecord with his stuff as the backbone for starters; the startidea WAS a double-album, and Mick was psyched by the idea initially. It's all in the doc too. Are you just watching it partial? Lindsey came back to the band after a ten year hiatus and agreed on working on Stevie's demos without her being present for a long time. Now -try to be as objective as possible, Stevie is the primadonna, Lindsey is the arrogant artistic director. But if his vision is being aborted by commercial arguments and your initial "partner-in-double-album" is turning his back on you, you can just logically expect someone's going to fight with all arms available. In this case: his own material.Gerald, you know how much I love Lindsey's music -- though, admittedly, I'm not fond of him as a person -- but let's not forget one important thing: Lindsey turning his solo album into a Fleetwood Mac project was not an altruistic move.

He told Rolling Stone in 2001, that he had a decision to make -- release his album as it was, or turn it into a Fleetwood Mac album so that he could reach more people with it.

"I have to decide this week whether this is a solo album or not. And if you talk to the critics they'll say, 'put it out, what are you doing, why wouldn't you want to put it out?' And if you talk to people at the record company, it depends on what your priorities are, so it's kind of scary. Not that I put solo albums out there to fail, they're for the people who want to hear that sort of thing. But the climate out there now is... [snip]... it's just a tough climate to try and think that you could really get through to a lot of people as a solo artist at age fifty. In that sense the Fleetwood Mac idea enables you to get through to a lot more people so I have to just weigh just how important or unimportant this is yet."

He was doing himself a favor by bringing his songs over into a Fleetwood Mac project, so that they'd get more exposure.

[shackin'up]

Gerald, you know how much I love Lindsey's music -- though, admittedly, I'm not fond of him as a person -- but let's not forget one important thing: Lindsey turning his solo album into a Fleetwood Mac project was not an altruistic move.

He told Rolling Stone in 2001, that he had a decision to make -- release his album as it was, or turn it into a Fleetwood Mac album so that he could reach more people with it.

"I have to decide this week whether this is a solo album or not. And if you talk to the critics they'll say, 'put it out, what are you doing, why wouldn't you want to put it out?' And if you talk to people at the record company, it depends on what your priorities are, so it's kind of scary. Not that I put solo albums out there to fail, they're for the people who want to hear that sort of thing. But the climate out there now is... [snip]... it's just a tough climate to try and think that you could really get through to a lot of people as a solo artist at age fifty. In that sense the Fleetwood Mac idea enables you to get through to a lot more people so I have to just weigh just how important or unimportant this is yet."

He was doing himself a favor by bringing his songs over into a Fleetwood Mac project, so that they'd get more exposure.

Who said it was an altruistic move????????
YOU always turn these discussions in that direction. I didn't say one moment that it was an altruistic move.
I only said that he was given room to move based on the work already done. AND he was given the task to guide the whole project. The band started the thing that way.

[mgikallaroundme]

Who said it was an altruistic move????????
YOU always turn these discussions in that direction. I didn't say one moment that it was an altruistic move.

No member of this group does anything for altruistic reasons. Not a single one. Fleetwood Mac is a business.

[Kelly]

I don't understand why you think this is a new thing. From the very first interviews they did for 'Say You Will,' right before and just after the album came out, Stevie said MANY times that she deeply missed Christine. Even during the tour, she said that it didn't quite feel the same without her.

That is absolutely nothing new. Ask Christine's fans... they can tell you which of the Maccers said it "wasn't the same" without Chris and which didn't.


When and where did Stevie say she was unwilling to tour without Christine in 2003? Saying she missed Chris is not the same as what she has been saying lately. Not even close. Lindsey has said many times that he misses Christine, too. In 2005, Stevie told people in New Zealand that FM was touring again but they were going to do some Christine songs this time around. Nothing said then about not being able to possibly go on without Christine in the band. :lol: She is not telling us the "Real Story" now......she is telling us ANOTHER story. Big difference but interpret it how you will. Stevie's motives are always noble as pie in your eyes. I guess Lindsey was lying when he said that Stevie and Mick called him up for a meeting to discuss the next Mac tour and provided him with a set list and ideas for mic placement??? He had to be lying if Stevie had truly decided way back when that she couldn't bear to be onstage without her beloved Christine. Or maybe Stevie has changed her tune recently? :thumbsup:

I am curious how much Stevie and Christine even interacted when the band was in Europe for SYW. According to Christine's manager, (I think..didn't he make a comment that they "only played two of her songs anyway and she wouldn't be onstage with them) it was hardly at all. For someone who is just lost and alone in Fleetwood Mac without Christine, you would think Stevie would have made up for lost time. :rolleyes: Stevie didn't even say "hey Chris, come sing Don't Stop with us for old times sake!!" :p

[michelle2677]

um. okay. I am so damned confused right now it's not even funny.


I really can't understand what all the fuss is about so someone please explain it to me.

Who gives a rats ass if Stevie is really missing Christine, using it as an excuse because she's mad at LB or because she just doesn't want to tour with FM anymore. I mean...i think I've missed some huge piece of this argument (though I've read the whole thing) WHY does it matter??


I mean...unless it's for the sake of the "ledgie way" and it's just to argue and discuss......then go ahead!! KILL!!! :laugh: :laugh: :lol:

[amber]

When and where did Stevie say she was unwilling to tour without Christine in 2003? Saying she missed Chris is not the same as what she has been saying lately. Not even close. Lindsey has said many times that he misses Christine, too. In 2005, Stevie told people in New Zealand that FM was touring again but they were going to do some Christine songs this time around. Nothing said then about not being able to possibly go on without Christine in the band. :lol: She is not telling us the "Real Story" now......she is telling us ANOTHER story. Big difference but interpret it how you will. Stevie's motives are always noble as pie in your eyes. I guess Lindsey was lying when he said that Stevie and Mick called him up for a meeting to discuss the next Mac tour and provided him with a set list and ideas for mic placement??? He had to be lying if Stevie had truly decided way back when that she couldn't bear to be onstage without her beloved Christine. Or maybe Stevie has changed her tune recently? :thumbsup:

I think "the story" can have changed form since 2003 without it being strange in any way. Back then, she toured, and missed Christine a lot, and said that a lot. Then, after the touring was over, and her looking back at the whole experience now, and trying to decide if she wanted to tour again without Christine, she has looked at the experience and decided that it was pretty unbearable without Chris, and that she, in fact, does not want to tour without her. You know, she went through the experience, felt a certain way doing it, and when trying to decide if she wanted a repeat of the experience without Christine, decided that it sucked, and she did not.

I don't think that is inconsistent at all. I've gone through experiences that I committed to, and while they were going on I wasn't thrilled, but I did them anyway. But if someone asked me subsequently if I wanted to go through them again, I have thought back and said "hmmm, no, I don't want to do that again, it really sucked. Even though I honored my committment to it at the time, I certainly don't want to repeat it". Of course she was willing to tour in 2003, she had an album to promote, and she didn't yet know how much she would hate the entire experience without Chris. And Stevie is not one to not promote her albums, and she is not one to not tour behind her albums. She is the biggest promote tour hound work horse of all of them.
Now that there isn't an FM album to promote, she is free to make the informed decision that she doesn't want to do it without Christine.
So, not strange or inconsistent at all, to me. Especially as she expressed the same opinion since the beginning of the whole thing. It is just that now she is free to not re-commit to a repeat of the experience. I.E. - "I tried that, and didn't like it, so no thanks".

It kind of strikes me as odd when people talk about someone "changing their story" after...3-4 years? Or even over less time. Any factor could come into play with anyone's life at any time to cause them to change their plan, or story, or mind. That is just how life is. There are any number of variations of factors in the course of someone's existence that they have to make decisions about every second, from major things to every day minutiae. :shrug: Why should Mac be different?

P.S. - Michelle - this is the biggest, funnest discussion Mac fans always have here...:laugh:

[shackin'up]

No member of this group does anything for altruistic reasons. Not a single one. Fleetwood Mac is a business.

Exactly....

[GardenStateGirlie]

No member of this group does anything for altruistic reasons. Not a single one. Fleetwood Mac is a business.

apparently that point is lost on many.

[amber]

apparently that point is lost on many.

Did anyone actually say that? I guess some people might think that, but I don't think anyone in this discussion...:laugh:

[Serrart]

Yeah, me too. As long as she's not there it's all Mr. Buckingham
as a musical visionaire, but as soon as she shows up, he's under her spell. And as long as her management speaks in dollars, he's willing to listen of course. In the case of SYW: the musical art direction was done for the major part. Lindsey was in and did his work-his task. After that, it was a new situation and then the commercially relevant thoughts dropped in. And Mick went in Stevie's direction-John is always neutral- so Lindsey's position went into underdog. Simple as that. Everything he thought and said from that moment can be attacked by "don't use a veto in a bandsituation dude". Very unchique. Don't get me wrong, he acted cocky and selfindulged too. But it's unfair to point him out as the primadonna.

Well. Wha-eva.


Do people have eyes here? Who was the Mac member during the SYW tour jumping all around the stage, having sex with his guitar and happily displaying his charm to the lucky fans in the front rows?

And who was the Mac member, restrained, serious, obviously pi**ed off sometimes, who seemed to be on a mission more than Joan of Arc after a vision?

Besides even before the tour, did anyone remember the ridiculous Lindsey/Stevie bouncing interviews when he complained with the press about
the fact she never thanked him for his work on her songs on the album, and after that she started thanking him in every interview? Or more recently when Lindsey said that nice thing about an allegedly imposed setlist for the next tour? Do they give you the impression of two people who have a good communication?

I wrote even before Stevie declarations that IMO she wasn't so anxious to return to FM thinking to all that.

It's not a matter of who's the primadonna there, they both are. But FM now are a boys club. Lindsey is the operational one (go there, do that) and I think Mick even if as a person supports more Stevie (yeah baby, everything will be fine, don't worry, I'll speak to him), at the end trusts him more for practical choices. I have the feeling that Christine was the one who was up to lead the negotiations for the Mac women in order to decide the setlist, the tour length, etc. I guess with a direct Stevie /Lindsey round instead too many personal aspects complicated every chance to decide in harmony things together.
IMO she just doesn't want to go into that kind of war of personalities right now, since she's having a lot of fun without that kind of stress touring with friends, or alone.

Personally I don't think it's definite, but she sent loudly a very clear message to the Mac gentlemen. Now it's up to them to rebuild a chance with her on different bases.

Romy

[Keith]

at the Camden show, Stevie gave the piano player an evil look as if he messed up or something.. but during her band introductions, she hailed great praise on him.. who knows as it's all about perception or the remnants of the j I smoked before the show.. Fleetwood Mac is made of a people.. people are complicated.. with egos.. and flaws.. just like the Ledge.. made up of people.. with egos.. and flaws.. this place is Fleetwood Mac...

[anusha1]

The thing is -- no one would be complaining if SYW had sold a gazillion copies and the tour had done better. The tour did pretty well, but I don't think it was the bonanza that The Dance was. While I am sure that all of the band members had some mixed feelings about the compromises they made to get the final SYW album, I don't think we would see these comments from Stevie (and whatever is bound to follow from the others) if sales had been better.

And, it is just another part of the cycle. The same thing happened after Tusk and after Mirage. It's funny, while the drama made things interesting before, now it just irritates me -- maybe it's because I am more mature, and they are not.

For what it's worth, I am sure that Stevie would have stood her ground on costumes if she felt strongly about it. I am glad that I was spared a half-dozen costume changes in a 2 hour concert. I love Stevie, and I want to see her perform, instead of drum, guitar, and piano solos while she changes.

My advice -- go back to the music. There are no answers to the constant conflict and griping among the Mac, and if there are, they don't seem to be able to find them.

[RockALittle250]

what a nice typecasting. stevie nonconfrontational in the neighbourhood of LB. that's the joke of the day. I object against the baby comment. The brat-thing, welll yeah, that's a fact.

She doesn't like to be confrontational with Lindsey...that doesn't mean she ISN'T...she has to be to defend her own thoughts/arguments, but that doesn't mean she wants to be. Yes, Lindsey is a baby, because he bitches and moans if things don't go his way...IMO, he needs to grow up sometimes.

[shackin'up]

She doesn't like to be confrontational with Lindsey...that doesn't mean she ISN'T...she has to be to defend her own thoughts/arguments, but that doesn't mean she wants to be. Yes, Lindsey is a baby, because he bitches and moans if things don't go his way...IMO, he needs to grow up sometimes.

And who says LB WANTS to be confrontational with her? Face it, they just can't not. They'll bitch until they die.


He just released a full album of songs about growing up. When are we going to let loose of opinions based on behaviour in the past? And who's moaning now?

[danax6]

See, that's the thing... we don't know that Stevie "threatened" to only do 40 dates.
No one in that documentary EVER said she threatened to do that.

All Lindsey said was that, "if there's even a chance that Stevie pulls out after the initial 40-dates -- I can't afford to take that chance."Oh, so he just made that up? Pulled that out of his ass? He's not saying John or Mick or whoever, no, he specifically mentions Stevie. And in the scene before that Mick mentions the tour possibly being cut short because of an argument about the running order.


So even if Stevie did say she might not want to (or be able to -- since we all know she was having health problems around that time) tour beyond 40-dates, shouldn't she have that right?
Christine said the same thing during the 'Dance' tour, and held true to her word -- she did those 40-45 shows and went home.Apples and oranges. Christine wasn't saying she wouldn't go past 40 dates because of issues going on within the band. She just doesn't like touring.

[danax6]

Yes, Lindsey is a baby, because he bitches and moans if things don't go his way...As opposed to Stevie always keeping quiet about things? Please. They both live in Whine Land.

[danax6]

The thing is -- no one would be complaining if SYW had sold a gazillion copies and the tour had done better. The tour did pretty well, but I don't think it was the bonanza that The Dance was. While I am sure that all of the band members had some mixed feelings about the compromises they made to get the final SYW album, I don't think we would see these comments from Stevie (and whatever is bound to follow from the others) if sales had been better.

And, it is just another part of the cycle. The same thing happened after Tusk and after Mirage. It's funny, while the drama made things interesting before, now it just irritates me -- maybe it's because I am more mature, and they are not.
And that's just my point, thank you very much. If SYW had sold millions of copies we wouldn't have Stevie saying she doesn't want to do it anymore because Christine's not there. It's always something with her, as long as it's not herself.

[amber]

And that's just my point, thank you very much. If SYW had sold millions of copies we wouldn't have Stevie saying she doesn't want to do it anymore because Christine's not there. It's always something with her, as long as it's not herself.

Since this didn't happen, I'm not sure you can say what Stevie would have done. No matter how psychic you are, you don't know what Stevie would have said. :laugh: The sales could have been a factor, but I have no doubt that a big factor was the experience of making the album without Christine, which Stevie said sucked, and I believe her. Notice I'm not implying that only one factor was involved, like I said before, life has myriad variations in any given situation. And it is also real, real, obvious to me that her and Lindsey trying to decide things together, with the band, with no Christine buffer, is horribly difficult, and appears to be emotionally draining. Then there were those times on stage during the tour when Stevie looked so pissed off, like she wanted to throw things at people (like Serrart said). Stevie has continued to work with the band in the past when sales were not as expected, but none of those times were without Christine. So I really don't think the sales numbers were the overriding factor in her decision. I mean, isn't it an agreed upon fact that she and Lindsey don't collaborate especially smoothly?

[danax6]

Since this didn't happen, I'm not sure you can say what Stevie would have done. No matter how psychic you are, you don't know what Stevie would have said. :laugh:Nope, but I am willing to bet on it. :wavey:

You just crushed my dreams of ever becoming Madame Nessie. Damnit. :laugh:

[amber]

Nope, but I am willing to bet on it. :wavey:

You just crushed my dreams of ever becoming Madame Nessie. Damnit. :laugh:

:laugh:

Seriously? You think sales are the only factor in her decision? And she's lying by saying the experienced sucked balls and she didn't want to do it again without Christine?

(You know, that article where she said "sucked balls"?):laugh:

[RockALittle250]

:laugh:

Seriously? You think sales are the only factor in her decision? And she's lying by saying the experienced sucked balls and she didn't want to do it again without Christine?

(You know, that article where she said "sucked balls"?):laugh:

Would you mind posting up that article? :nod:

[amber]

Would you mind posting up that article? :nod:

:laugh: Sure, let me find it. It was the same recent article where she apologized to her fans for her setlist, and promised next time she tours it will be called the "Album Cuts You've Never Heard Me Do" tour, and that the best tickets will be less than $75, and that she will stay and chat with her fans afterwards, and do a Q&A. Remember that article?

[danax6]

:laugh:

Seriously? You think sales are the only factor in her decision? And she's lying by saying the experienced sucked balls and she didn't want to do it again without Christine?

(You know, that article where she said "sucked balls"?):laugh:No, not just sales, everything that comes along with a project not having the desired results. It's always something or someone else to blame, never herself. The sales part wasn't meant to be taken literally.

Tusk is a prime example, and whaddayaknow? 25 years later she admits it's her favorite Fleetwood Mac album.

[amber]

No, not just sales, everything that comes along with a project not having the desired results. It's always something or someone else to blame, never herself. The sales part wasn't meant to be taken literally.

Tusk is a prime example, and whaddayaknow? 25 years later she admits it's her favorite Fleetwood Mac album.

Ah. I see. Well, then, that leaves room for lots of other factors, including no Christine, and the trouble of getting along/agreeing with Linds.

How exactly could someone blame themselves as a reason not to do another album? Or for the perceived "failure" of an album? She didn't really blame anyone else much, did she? She just said, "It didn't work". Or "I didn't like it without Christine" or something. Right? I have the vague feeling I read something about her disliking production on something, but that could be residual "Destiny Rules" memory. I'm sure you will know.

As for reasons not to do another album, I hardly think anyone would say "I'm not doing another album with them because I suck. It was my fault the album didn't work". :laugh:
But I think when she does say things, it is just kind of about how difficult it is for her and Linds to decide on things, or agree, or whatever. Not so much placing blame.

[danax6]

Ah. I see. Well, then, that leaves room for lots of other factors, including no Christine, and the trouble of getting along/agreeing with Linds.

How exactly could someone blame themselves as a reason not to do another album? Or for their perceived "failure" of an album? She didn't really blame anyone else much, did she? She just said, "It didn't work". Or "I didn't like it without Christine" or something. Right? I have the vague feeling I read something about her disliking production on something, but that could be residual "Destiny Rules" memory. I'm sure you will know.

As for reasons not to do another album, I hardly think anyone would say "I'm not doing another album with them because I suck. It was my fault the album didn't work". :laugh:
But I think when she does say things, it is just kind of about how difficult it is for her and Linds to decide on things, or agree, or whatever. Not so much placing blame.Aargh, you are really making me work for it today. What I am saying is, and next time I am going to try and do this in Chinese, because English is obviously not working for me tonight, that on top of her loving to lay the blame somewhere else, she always comes up with these 'excuses' as to why something didn't have the desired effect, instead of just coming out and saying what she really wants to say. That has been a pattern throughout her entire career.

And yes, she did slam Say You Will. She said she felt her demos were better than what ended up on the album. But ofcourse, she's not to blame, because she was on tour for 6 months when other people worked on her stuff. And then she had to go to Phoenix for a month to write songs. By that time it was already too late to say, hey, you know what, I don't like how these songs turned out. No, instead it's better to wait until after its release and you discover it didn't do so well. Tell everyone it was because Christine wasn't there.

[Kelly]

^^^ They also worked on SYW for over a year after she came off the TISL tour. Certainly she could have changed anything she didn't like. I know there is a quote where she said she "knew now that if she didn't like something LB had done, she could just tell him and he would change it". She made the comment when she was talking about sending him off with her seventeen demos to work on. She even said he would send her samples of what he was doing, putting his voice faster through the VSO to "sound like her" so she could see what it would sound like. Sounds like LB really made an effort to include her every step of the way and that she had every opportunity to change anything she wanted. She supposedly wasn't pleased with how Mark Needham mixed Thrown Down...so LB said she could make her own decision on that one. Several years later we have Mark Needham mixing for her Crystal Visions songs. :rolleyes:
The Christine stuff is her most recent excuse. I am glad she has given LB a break this time, and not said he was just awful on the last tour and that is why she is not going to tour with FM anymore.
Coincidentally, Stevie stresses most nights that they are touring this summer to "support her Greatest Hits package", not because she just loves, loves, loves touring. If she wants to take a break from the road...just say that. :shrug:

[amber]

Aargh, you are really making me work for it today. What I am saying is, and next time I am going to try and do this in Chinese, because English is obviously not working for me tonight, that on top of her loving to lay the blame somewhere else, she always comes up with these 'excuses' as to why something didn't have the desired effect, instead of just coming out and saying what she really wants to say. That has been a pattern throughout her entire career.
Didn't mean to make you work. :o And I don't understand Chinese. But what is it that she "really wanted to say" and instead came up with an excuse for? And why are they "excuses", and not just "reasons"? And good god, what kind of crazy artist would ever say anything bad about their product before it had been out awhile, to see how it would sell? Anyone would be a fool to slam their own product when it came out.

And yes, she did slam Say You Will. She said she felt her demos were better than what ended up on the album. But of course, she's not to blame, because she was on tour for 6 months when other people worked on her stuff. And then she had to go to Phoenix for a month to write songs. By that time it was already too late to say, hey, you know what, I don't like how these songs came out. No, instead it's better to wait until after its release and you discover it didn't do so well. Tell everyone it was because Christine wasn't there.

I see what you are saying. I think part of that is not wanting to endlessly argue with Linds about what they did with her demos, and also the time constraint (her fault). But again, I'm not surprised by her saying what she really thinks only after the sales figures came out. And there is a good chance she thinks that one of the main reasons was because Christine wasn't there. But I do see your point. Not sure I totally agree. Also, I wouldn't really expect her to take any blame. Or any artist. And to be fair, although she should have had more involvement if she was going to bitch about it later, her opinion of what Linds did with her demos isn't necessarily invalid. He always has to work her stuff, and I'm sure it is quite a frustrating process for them to agree, so she probably did defer to him about some of her songs when perhaps she should not have. So, after bitching isn't that cool. But I still think her opinion about the Christine thing is very real, not necessarily "just an excuse". She has said that all along, in some form or another.

[GardenStateGirlie]

She supposedly wasn't pleased with how Mark Needham mixed Thrown Down...so LB said she could make her own decision on that one. Several years later we have Mark Needham mixing for her Crystal Visions songs.

wasn't pleased but used his version when "her guy" (chris lord-alge) didn't deliver. the only thing not mixed by mark needham on the syw album was destiny rules. i don't own crystal visions so i was unaware mark mixed those. funny how that worked out.

[RockALittle250]

wasn't pleased but used his version when "her guy" (chris lord-alge) didn't deliver. the only thing not mixed by mark needham on the syw album was destiny rules. i don't own crystal visions so i was unaware mark mixed those. funny how that worked out.

Well get your butt out there and buy the album! :laugh:

[Johnny Stew]

If you're going to make such judgments on Lindsey Buckingham's character, be prepared to read Ledgies refer to Stevie Nicks as a 59-year-old womanchild who lives to abdicate personal responsibility.I am prepared to read those comments. Just as I'm prepared to argue the opposing viewpoint when I'm so inclined.

As usual, I don't recall where I've ever said that Stevie is perfect. I'm just not sure why she's being held to point over something she's been saying for four years now -- she wasn't happy on the road without Christine.

And, yes, she and Mick allegedly had a meeting with Lindsey and presented him with their ideas on a setlist, but we have no idea how well that went over. Obviously not well, since there's been no talk of a tour since then.
Perhaps Stevie left there thinking, "that confirms it -- either Christine's with us, or I'm not touring with them again."

It's important to remember what Lindsey said about no one falling under a simple set of labels.No, you're wrong... Lindsey's a tempermental genius, while Stevie's just an immature bitch.

[RockALittle250]

I am prepared to read those comments. Just as I'm prepared to argue the opposing viewpoint when I'm so inclined.

As usual, I don't recall where I've ever said that Stevie is perfect. I'm just not sure why she's being held to point over something she's been saying for four years now -- she wasn't happy on the road without Christine.

And, yes, she and Mick allegedly had a meeting with Lindsey and presented him with their ideas on a setlist, but we have no idea how well that went over. Obviously not well, since there's been no talk of a tour since then.
Perhaps Stevie left there thinking, "that confirms it -- either Christine's with us, or I'm not touring with them again."

No, you're wrong... Lindsey's a tempermental genius, while Stevie's just an immature bitch.

To speculate, she probably considered that meeting as giving it a last chance to try and tour again w/o Chris...as you have said. At the end of it, she probably felt that it was the last straw, and either Chris is in it with them together, or she's out.

Lindsey is so busy with the UTS tour, and hopefully, an upcoming album in 2008, that he probably will let this rest on the back burner or just boil over and dissolve.

[Johnny Stew]

I briefly considered removing my posts from this thread, but there's really no sense. What's said is said, and I think everyone's comments on both sides of the debate were interesting.

Either way, I just want to apologize to one and all if I was too harsh in my responses.
I think the way I expressed myself gave the wrong impression of what I think of Lindsey, especially with my "I'm not fond of him as a person" comment.
It's true, I'm not wild about the way he usually comes across -- that tempermental genius thing doesn't hold much water for me, when "petulant child" often seems more like it -- but I certainly don't have some kind of deep disdain for him.

I could never enjoy someone's music if I thought they had no redeeming qualities as a person.

It's also not that I think Stevie is perfect or that her "motives are always noble." Though I do think she's often held to a stricter set of standards than anyone else in the band. Or maybe it's just that her words and actions are analyzed and dissected more. :shrug:

In my attemps to offer a differing viewpoint to these debates, it seems that my comments often come across far more "black & white" than my actual opinion reflects.

At any rate, I apologize again. :o