FLeetwood Mac without Stevie

[Chrislit18]

So, anyways, I was thinking this weekend, as per usual, and was wondering
'What would have been the outcome of Fleetwood Mac without Stevie?'
What I mean by that is, so say she did come in as she did with Lindsey in 1975, and she quit or something when her solo carrer took off...or even did'nt do the Dance...lets use the Dance.

I mean we've had Fleetwood Mac without Lindsey-TITN tour-the dance
Without Christine-Say You Will Tour

but never without Stevie..


so basically what I am saying is...if the lineup of Fleetwood Mac was:
Mick
John
Chris
and Lindsey

a)would you buy the record
b)would you go to the tour


any thoughts??

[Gailh]

By my reckonning we've had an FM album with Christine and Stevie but no Lindsey. We've had an FM album with Stevie and Lindsey but no Christine but we haven't had an FM with Christine and Lindsey but no Stevie.

It might be interesting.

Yes I'd buy the album and I'd go and see the tour. It would be quite nice to be transported to a parallel universe where Christine kept on touring.

Gail

[louielouie2000]

In my opinion Fleetwood Mac would have kept trucking on with modest success without the advent of Stevie Nicks. They probably could have kept on through the 70s, and possibly well into the 80s, likely making minor or even major personnel changes along the way. The thing is, Stevie is the only member of the band that I can point to who really sticks out as having STAR POWER. That doesn't demean or belittle the accomplishments or talent of any member of the band past or present. However I believe, and always will, that Stevie Nicks really is what makes Fleetwood Mac what it is. She has an unforgettable voice, stage presence, style, and persona. She captured peoples hearts and imagination. She was extraordinarily beautiful, and she wrote about beautiful things. People just fall in love with everything she is. Without Stevie you'd have a fraction of the drama that led to Rumours, and the band's image of this crazy rock band. You wouldn't have the stories of Stevie's excesses in the 70s and 80s. Stevie on stage and off seems to be a fairly dramatic person... I'm sure she was a big part of the fuel of all the crazy things that the band did to itself in it's wilder years, all of which is why FM got such attention, and fame. I mean, you see what happened with Time, and the Time tour... the only venture the past 30 years that didn't include Stevie in some form or fashion. It completely tanked! As one writer wrote... "who gives a Tusk about Fleetwood Mac without Stevie Nicks?" While I adore every single member of the Rumours 5, and love Bob Welch and many others... when I go see a Mac show I go to see Stevie first and foremost. So does most of the audience... they STILL dress like her, sing along during her songs, she still gets the biggest cheers even if she's just walking onstage.

Just think about it this way... how would Fleetwood Mac have faired in the early years of MTV without Stevie? That completely turned rock music on it's head. You had to have someone who jumped out of the TV during your video to get any play. None of the other members of the band really stuck out like Stevie did. You could argue Stevie was the best and worst thing to ever happen to this band. She brought them huge success, notoriety, fame, etc... but with all of that comes a backlash as well. Some critics didn't take FM seriously because of her. No doubt Stevie also was a big part of Fleetwood Mac becoming more of a pop band than a blues-rock band too. I think Fleetwood Mac is STILL struggling to forge their identity as a rock band because of the inclusion of Stevie. You've gotta remember too that even during the mid 70s it was kind of taboo almost to have a rock band that expected to be taken seriously if you had multiple women in it. It's my opinion, and always will be tho... that Stevie Nicks is the best, biggest thing to ever happen to this band. :woohoo:

[Gailh]

There's no doubt that the introduction of Stevie and Lindsey propelled FM from being a moderately successful band into a Super Group.

It also didn't do any harm that Stevie was drop dead gorgeous.

I think it was the chemistry of the 5 of them together.

Buckingham Nicks were going nowhere and FM were stuck on a set number of sales per album. So it was a marriage made in heaven.

Stevie was not and is not the be all and end all of FM. Without the others input, especially Lindsey's production, her songs wouldn't have had the same impact. She needed them as much as they needed her.

Gail

[TheWILDheart]

Stevie was the one with the stand out personality. She was new and fresh at the time and was something different. Everyone else was sort of bland in comparison to her so she was a breath of fresh air. She was also one of the first women to really rock out rather than sing about how her man treats her bad but she loves him anyway. Stevie was the one to turn around and say "ya kno what, If my man treats me bad, f*ck him!" She was doing things HER way and that was...and still is...the coolest thing EVA! Plus...she had the looks, the voice, the songs, the style...everything. STEVIE IS THE ROCK QUEEN!

[JazmenFlowers]

a) no
b) no

[Chrislit18]

you see, im not saying that she was never a part of the group
im just saying 'what if she wasnt included in the dance tour'
[i mean, who originally brought her back for it...cause it started as lindsey doing his solo album 'gift of screws', and then he had mick come in for drumming..and yada yada...]

i know that she is probably one of the main reasons fleetwood mac had so much success, thier only number 1 hit on the top songs chart was hers. and your right, it didnt hurt that she was [and still is] insanely pretty.

to answer my own question, i would go see fm without stevie, and i would buy a record if there was one without her [oh, if you own tango, you basically do, cause she was only there for her 3 songs plus backing vocal for little lies].

It doesnt seem like to me that she is absolutely neccaserry to the fundamentals of the group now though. she has the attraction power, but overall, what she does for most of the shows is play her tambourine-because she doenst play an instrument...i wish theyd have her do something more productive myself, like if chris didnt come back if they toured again, have her play the keys...

she had the attraction factor which brought people to the group
and she has diehard fans...but does that really mean that her songs are better than chirs' and lindseys? [i personally like chris' songs the best...]

[justcrazylove]

stevie nicks biggest downfall are her FANS!!!::rolleyes:

and yes i would go see them without stevie and buy there record because i love the band

FLEETWOOD MAC, not STEVIE NICKS, featuring fleetwood mac!!

and all you nutcase chiffon heads lose site of that...

stop being so narrow minded and enjoy the band for all it is not one person;.

[foxyluva]

Stevie was the one with the stand out personality. She was new and fresh at the time and was something different. Everyone else was sort of bland in comparison to her so she was a breath of fresh air. She was also one of the first women to really rock out rather than sing about how her man treats her bad but she loves him anyway. Stevie was the one to turn around and say "ya kno what, If my man treats me bad, f*ck him!" She was doing things HER way and that was...and still is...the coolest thing EVA! Plus...she had the looks, the voice, the songs, the style...everything. STEVIE IS THE ROCK QUEEN!

I will say it again, because somebody took it upon themselves to delete my original post:

You sir, are an idiot.

[shackin'up]

Stevie was the one with the stand out personality. She was new and fresh at the time and was something different. Everyone else was sort of bland in comparison to her so she was a breath of fresh air. She was also one of the first women to really rock out rather than sing about how her man treats her bad but she loves him anyway. Stevie was the one to turn around and say "ya kno what, If my man treats me bad, f*ck him!" She was doing things HER way and that was...and still is...the coolest thing EVA! Plus...she had the looks, the voice, the songs, the style...everything. STEVIE IS THE ROCK QUEEN!

HAHAHAHAHA:lol: :lol:

You are sooooooo funny.:woohoo:

I love it when people joke by exaggeration to the extreme. You are my humourGOD from now on.

Man, I almost p*ssed my pants here.:thumbsup: What a great joke!

Thanks!

[danax6]

She was also one of the first women to really rock out rather than sing about how her man treats her bad but she loves him anyway. Stevie was the one to turn around and say "ya kno what, If my man treats me bad, f*ck him!"Please tell me you are kidding. Please.


stop being so narrow minded and enjoy the band for all it is not one person;.Thank you, I'll keep that under advisement.

As for the original question: yes, I would definitely buy the album and I would probably go see them. I love Lindsey and you know, I really like Christine also. :wavey:

ETA: Now that I am a bit more awake, I shall eloborate on my initial answer. Let's focus on when Stevie's solo career took off up until The Dance. I'd say that her solo career was doing much more for her than being in Fleetwood Mac. Heck, Fleetwood Mac brought out 4 albums in between Bella Donna and The Dance, none of them with any noteworthy Stevie tracks on it, aside from Gypsy in 1982. (I'm looking at this from a commercial stand point, not a personal one.) Mirage was more of a Lindsey solo effort with a very strong Christine effort thrown into it, and Stevie was almost added as an afterthought. It remains one of my least favorite Fleetwood Mac albums, though I can really appreciate some of the songs when listened to them seperately, not as a part of the whole. Tango in the Night was again a Lindsey effort, but it were Christine's songs that became the biggest hits. Stevie's songs were mostly overlooked. Yet this album is one of my favorites (shut up, Gerald), despite Stevie's weaker tracks (which I personally don't think are that weak). The standout track to me is the title track. Though Stevie was a part of Behind the Mask, I've never even bothered with it, aside from Stevie's songs, mostly because of the lack of Lindsey's presence. I've tried to listen to it a few times, but it just doesn't do anything for me, a certain chemistry is missing. The same goes for Time.

So, in short, I think that even though Stevie was present on all of the albums in the 80s, her material was not really what stood out. I for one think that Christine and Lindsey are very compatible music wise, and I would really enjoy an album where they were the two prominent musicians/writers/producers/whatevers. It'd be interesting to see what they could come up with together, seeing I really like their joint efforts (World Turning, Hold Me, etc.) Though, by her own admission, drugs were a huge factor in why she didn't have any more solo albums, Fleetwood Mac was too. And seeing her solo efforts were much more memorable than her FM efforts in the 80s, I think she might have been better off focusing on that more. I still think that The Dance reunion was effin' great though, and everything that came after it also, including Trouble in Shangri-La and Say You Will. Lindsey and Stevie without Christine works, but I really think that Lindsey and Christine without Stevie would work also. Maybe not commercially, but definitely artistically.

[Kelly]

Stevie was the one with the stand out personality. She was new and fresh at the time and was something different. Everyone else was sort of bland in comparison to her so she was a breath of fresh air. She was also one of the first women to really rock out rather than sing about how her man treats her bad but she loves him anyway. Stevie was the one to turn around and say "ya kno what, If my man treats me bad, f*ck him!" She was doing things HER way and that was...and still is...the coolest thing EVA! Plus...she had the looks, the voice, the songs, the style...everything. STEVIE IS THE ROCK QUEEN!



:shocked: Everyone else was bland in comparison?? :rolleyes:
It was Lindsey's guitar playing that interested Mick, not Stevie's "fresh, new personality". They are all better with each other and none of them are as good alone. Not even the Goddess, Stevie. How many times has she said she prefers to be a part of the band, Fleetwood Mac, than do her solo thing??

[catinthedark]

I will say it again, because somebody took it upon themselves to delete my original post:
You sir, are an idiot.

yeah. i noticed that. same thing happened to me and a few others the other day in another thread. is this a new thing? or am i just now part of a new club i never knew existed? i know what posts were deleted from the thread i was in. i know that we were not name-calling. simply raising issues. again. i assume it's because someone ran to the moderators and tattled on us. but it actually surprised me that the posts just disappeared, with no explanations.

[Rickypt]

so basically what I am saying is...if the lineup of Fleetwood Mac was:
Mick
John
Chris
and Lindsey

a)would you buy the record
b)would you go to the tour


Yes, I would. I prefer Stevie solo and I think a Lindsey/Christine matchup would work better than SYW. Since Mirage, I have found Stevie's FM work to sound like solo songs anyway (with possible exception of Gypsy). Stevie will always be my favorite, but I could see getting into a FM with band members listed above.

[DavidMn]

Yes I would go. I have never felt that Stevie is the only thing that makes Fletwood Mac exist. I think it would be very interesting to see Fleetwood Mac without her, although at the same time, I'd rather have ner in the group no doubt. It's all about the collective whole of Fleetwood Mac for me I guess.

[chiliD]

a) As long as it was new material by the band named "Fleetwood Mac", hell, yes I would buy it. I've bought every other official release of theirs. The only way I wouldn't is if either Neil Diamond or Barbra Streisand joined the band.

b) And, to keep my streak going of never missing a Fleetwood Mac tour since 1974, of COURSE I would go see their show...at least, one...maybe MORE, since Stevie WASN'T there and I wouldn't have to deal with the people who were there ONLY for Stevie...the people who WERE there would be those who are full-on Fleetwood Mac fans.

[danax6]

b) And, to keep my streak going of never missing a Fleetwood Mac tour since 1974, of COURSE I would go see their show...at least, one...maybe MORE, since Stevie WASN'T there and I wouldn't have to deal with the people who were there ONLY for Stevie...the people who WERE there would be those who are full-on Fleetwood Mac fans.So, as a rule, Stevie Nicks fans can't be full on Fleetwood Mac fans? I'm just trying to follow your line of reasoning here...

[chiliD]

So, as a rule, Stevie Nicks fans can't be full on Fleetwood Mac fans? I'm just trying to follow your line of reasoning here...

No, that's not what I said. I already qualified it..."...wouldn't have to deal with the people who were there ONLY for Stevie...". If I went to see a Fleetwood Mac show that didn't have Stevie, then those Stevie Nicks fans who were there would MOST LIKELY also fit into the "Fleetwood Mac fan" demographic. Or, they didn't get the memo that Stevie wasn't in the band anymore.

After seeing Fleetwood Mac WITH Stevie around 50 times, it has appeared to me, more often than not, those who are there ONLY to see Stevie Nicks have little or no interest in what the band does when she's not singing one of her songs or if she doesn't have a major focal role in the background vocals. Just my own observation. If there was a scientific poll taken during those shows, I probably would be off on my calculations, but if it looks like a duck & quacks like a duck, logic prevails that it's a duck.

[danax6]

^Okay, gotcha.

Though I do think that most people that are a fan of Stevie Nicks are really not uninterested in anything that Fleetwood Mac does. (And you can't base your opinions on the fact that Time wasn't successful, that's a whole other cup of tea). I think it has more to do with what happens on stage as opposed to it just 'not being Stevie'. I couldn't care less about Mick's drum solos either.

The one thing that you'd have going on for you is that you have to deal with less people dressed up as Stevie Nicks. ;)

(disclaimer: 'you' is meant in general)

[TheWILDheart]

:shocked: Everyone else was bland in comparison?? :rolleyes:
It was Lindsey's guitar playing that interested Mick, not Stevie's "fresh, new personality". They are all better with each other and none of them are as good alone. Not even the Goddess, Stevie. How many times has she said she prefers to be a part of the band, Fleetwood Mac, than do her solo thing??

JESUS CHRIST I'd have Stevie solo over Fleetwood Mac ANYDAY!

and to all who have said I'm an idiot and laughed and etc etc...what can I say, I'm a complete chiffon head. Being a Stevie fan should be a RELIGION! ALL HAIL QUEEN STEVIE! lol. Seriously though Stevie is just.....omg.....just....ahhhh i can't even thing of a word....she's...FABULOUS! And in my top five most fabulous things in life.

[danax6]

JESUS CHRIST I'd have Stevie solo over Fleetwood Mac ANYDAY!
I don't think Jesus Christ is really interested in that.

[TheWILDheart]

And you can't base your opinions on the fact that Time wasn't successful, that's a whole other cup of tea

Time could've been really good. It had Billy and Christine who I am very fond of on BTM. The fact that they were messed around by the record company and that the tour came BEFORE the album for some reason and that Christine really didn't have a clue what was going on at all on this album. It just seems sort of...forced...rather than something that was coming naturally to the band as every album before it did. Also, you can just tell that Chris really didn't want to be there at all. So for me, Time sucks because of those reasons and was unsuccessful because it had no promotion. Not because Stevie wasn't on it. I mean, look at Fleetwood Mac until 1975. They had a number 1 with albatross and a **** load of moderately successful albums and an incredibly loyal fan base. They could've had that again with Time if they didn't balls it all up.

[Sarah]

I'd buy it if Lindsey was on it.

[TheWILDheart]

I'd buy it if Lindsey was on it.

Yeh I think I would if Lindsey was on it. Lindsey and Christine always made a cheerful combination whereas when Stevie and Lindsey were together it was all very dramatic and tense and they wanted to kill each other and the rivalry and everything else whereas with Chris and Lindsey it was always about the music rather than each other.

[chiliD]

Time could've been really good. It had Billy and Christine who I am very fond of on BTM. The fact that they were messed around by the record company and that the tour came BEFORE the album for some reason and that Christine really didn't have a clue what was going on at all on this album. It just seems sort of...forced...rather than something that was coming naturally to the band as every album before it did. Also, you can just tell that Chris really didn't want to be there at all. So for me, Time sucks because of those reasons and was unsuccessful because it had no promotion. Not because Stevie wasn't on it. I mean, look at Fleetwood Mac until 1975. They had a number 1 with albatross and a **** load of moderately successful albums and an incredibly loyal fan base. They could've had that again with Time if they didn't balls it all up.

They HAD an album all ready to release DURING the tour (titled Another Link In The Chain), WITHOUT Christine. It was the record company that demanded Christine be on the album (due to some "small print" clause in their contract); which delayed the album over a year. So, yeah, Christine's contributions WERE "forced". Kind of like the last minute having to turn a Lindsey Buckingham solo album into a Fleetwood Mac album (which they've done twice now). I think the original album would've been a whole lot better, had a better "feel" and better "flow" than what Time became. It didn't help that a person who Christine had had a long-time feud with (Dave Mason) was now a two-year long member of Fleetwood Mac.

It could be compared with the hypothetical situation on Say You Will if Stevie had said that she'd do the album, but didn't want Lindsey playing guitar on her songs...that she wanted Waddy to play on her songs. Exactly what seemed to have happened with Christine's songs on Time...she didn't want Dave Mason anywhere NEAR her songs...hence Michael Thompson being the guitarist on Christine's tunes.

What screwed up the '94-95 edition of Fleetwood Mac was that they still forced Rumours down our throats in concert. If they'd made the set full of the current studio material they'd been working on, with just a hint of "the past" thrown in (as they'd done two decades earlier), I think they'd have built a new identity, instead of the perception that Bekka was "replacing" both Stevie & Christine.

[Hawkeye]

I personally WISH Stevie would've left the band after the Mirage tour in 1982. She was pretty much useless in the band after Mirage. Her Tango/BTM and Paper Doll songs all SUCK. And she was horrible on both those tours. She really should've quit after 1982. She could've still came back in 1997, hell The Dance could've been even bigger after her talking a longer break.

[TheWILDheart]

I personally WISH Stevie would've left the band after the Mirage tour in 1982. She was pretty much useless in the band after Mirage. Her Tango/BTM and Paper Doll songs all SUCK. And she was horrible on both those tours. She really should've quit after 1982. She could've still came back in 1997, hell The Dance could've been even bigger after her talking a longer break.

Excuse me????

songs of Stevie's that rule post-82:

Seven Wonders
Welcome To The Room...Sara
No Questions Asked
Love Is Dangerous
Affairs of The Heart
Freedom
The Second Time
Paper Doll

Granted, Tango was not a particularly good time for Stevie song wise. I mean WISYA sucks so badly. It's actually the only Stevie-Mac song I don't like. But she made up for it with gems like Freedom and Paper Doll.

[Hawkeye]

I don't like any of those songs you listed, except No Questions Asked.

[TheWILDheart]

I don't like any of those songs you listed, except No Questions Asked.

REALLY!? Wow I LOVE Freedom, Second Time, Seven Wonders and Paper Doll. The rest I can live without but I like them.

[aleuzzi]

Yeah, I'd buy it...unless it was basically Dave Mason fronting the band :laugh:

Seriously, I think LB is at the point now where he knows he can make more $ with FM than he ever could alone (a slow but obvious realization?) so possibly he is more inclined to be on a new FM record than Stevie. That said, I think Sevie would do another record--with or wthout Chris. She's a tour hound and the lure of good $ wouldn't hurt.

I would love all three of them o be back for a studio record. Period. Take or leave a tour. Just get them to make some damn good music, which thankfully they're all still doing in various configurations.

[foxyluva]

yeah. i noticed that. same thing happened to me and a few others the other day in another thread. is this a new thing? or am i just now part of a new club i never knew existed? i know what posts were deleted from the thread i was in. i know that we were not name-calling. simply raising issues. again. i assume it's because someone ran to the moderators and tattled on us. but it actually surprised me that the posts just disappeared, with no explanations.

Certain members were talking graphically about anal sex in a chit-chat thread, and that never got deleted - but apparently me calling someone a '****ing idiot' is a reason enough to delete my post. Go figure.

[chiliD]

I personally WISH Stevie would've left the band after the Mirage tour in 1982.

I think both she AND Lindsey should've packed it in with Fleetwood Mac the day after the Tusk tour ended in 1980.

FMac had plenty of options to go forward in 1980 (my idea: get back Bob Welch and recruit Martha Davis from the Motels) if they'd done so.

[strandinthewind]

I think both she AND Lindsey should've packed it in with Fleetwood Mac the day after the Tusk tour ended in 1980.

FMac had plenty of options to go forward in 1980 (my idea: get back Bob Welch and recruit Martha Davis from the Motels) if they'd done so.

I would have put it after Mirage - but then The Dance would have never happened. So, it is what it is I guess. Plus, Mick and John could always get MD now, which would be way cool IMO.

[TheWILDheart]

"EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON.."

- a very fabulous person, "Love Changes", Trouble In Shangri-La 2001


(she was right)

[justcrazylove]

you annoy me beyond comprehension:rolleyes:

[jbrownsjr]

Please tell me you are kidding. Please.

Thank you, I'll keep that under advisement.

As for the original question: yes, I would definitely buy the album and I would probably go see them. I love Lindsey and you know, I really like Christine also. :wavey:

ETA: Now that I am a bit more awake, I shall eloborate on my initial answer. Let's focus on when Stevie's solo career took off up until The Dance. I'd say that her solo career was doing much more for her than being in Fleetwood Mac. Heck, Fleetwood Mac brought out 4 albums in between Bella Donna and The Dance, none of them with any noteworthy Stevie tracks on it, aside from Gypsy in 1982. (I'm looking at this from a commercial stand point, not a personal one.) Mirage was more of a Lindsey solo effort with a very strong Christine effort thrown into it, and Stevie was almost added as an afterthought. It remains one of my least favorite Fleetwood Mac albums, though I can really appreciate some of the songs when listened to them seperately, not as a part of the whole. Tango in the Night was again a Lindsey effort, but it were Christine's songs that became the biggest hits. Stevie's songs were mostly overlooked. Yet this album is one of my favorites (shut up, Gerald), despite Stevie's weaker tracks (which I personally don't think are that weak). The standout track to me is the title track. Though Stevie was a part of Behind the Mask, I've never even bothered with it, aside from Stevie's songs, mostly because of the lack of Lindsey's presence. I've tried to listen to it a few times, but it just doesn't do anything for me, a certain chemistry is missing. The same goes for Time.

So, in short, I think that even though Stevie was present on all of the albums in the 80s, her material was not really what stood out. I for one think that Christine and Lindsey are very compatible music wise, and I would really enjoy an album where they were the two prominent musicians/writers/producers/whatevers. It'd be interesting to see what they could come up with together, seeing I really like their joint efforts (World Turning, Hold Me, etc.) Though, by her own admission, drugs were a huge factor in why she didn't have any more solo albums, Fleetwood Mac was too. And seeing her solo efforts were much more memorable than her FM efforts in the 80s, I think she might have been better off focusing on that more. I still think that The Dance reunion was effin' great though, and everything that came after it also, including Trouble in Shangri-La and Say You Will. Lindsey and Stevie without Christine works, but I really think that Lindsey and Christine without Stevie would work also. Maybe not commercially, but definitely artistically.

great post!! you put the words right into my mouth

[catinthedark]

Certain members were talking graphically about anal sex in a chit-chat thread, and that never got deleted - but apparently me calling someone a '****ing idiot' is a reason enough to delete my post. Go figure.

i wasn't part of that chit chat thread. and i didn't call anyone a name. but i have a feeling a certain tattle tail wields great power around here. didn't like being called out. again.

and so - poof! gone.

go figure on that.

[Little Nicki]

"EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON.."

- a very fabulous person, "Love Changes", Trouble In Shangri-La 2001


(she was right)

I've gotta know, what is your most recent completed level of schooling?

The only example I can think of where we truly saw the Mac minus Stevie was Not That Funny on the Mirage video. And it was great! Mostly every other non-stevie song has little to no Stevie but she's always gotta be there, hanging around, trying to find something to do. Stevie can be very fickle and you don't always know what she's doing or thinking, but when you see Lindsey and Christine up in front by themselves, you know where their hearts are. So a Lindsey, Christine, John, and Mick album would be a very welcome addition to my collection.

[JunkFoodGenius]

*staples post in the right thread*


When I started getting heavy into Fleetwood Mac in 1995, I was all happy until I remembered, "Wait, THAT WOMAN was in the band?" My Stevie Nicks appreciation has gone from one of utter disdainment to mild amusement now, but in my perfect world, I wish for a Chris, Lindsey, John, and Mick album.

I think what would have been the most likely opportunity is if after the success of Belladonna, Stevie would have struck out on her own and left the band, leaving Mirage and Tango to be Chris and Lindsey compilations (which...they pretty much are.)

Lindsey can say that the Destiny Rules tour was his testosterone tour, I think that the Mirage and Tango tour (which he would have gone on, in my mind) would have been his classy tours. If anything, the lack of whatever was on Stevie's head for the Mirage tour would never have been.

(Of course, my dream is to just have Lindsey and Christine do a side album.)

[TheWILDheart]

I've gotta know, what is your most recent completed level of schooling?

The only example I can think of where we truly saw the Mac minus Stevie was Not That Funny on the Mirage video. And it was great! Mostly every other non-stevie song has little to no Stevie but she's always gotta be there, hanging around, trying to find something to do. Stevie can be very fickle and you don't always know what she's doing or thinking, but when you see Lindsey and Christine up in front by themselves, you know where their hearts are. So a Lindsey, Christine, John, and Mick album would be a very welcome addition to my collection.

It's true. Everything DOES happen for a reason. Think about it. If Stevie and Lindsey didn't join then we'd have no Rumours (despite being over played, it's still an amazing album) and FM would not be as big as they are today. Without Rumours, we'd have no Tusk which is one of the most important albums in rock history as it shows how diverse a band can be and made a lot of people realise you don't always have to sound the same. Without Tusk, no Tusk tour and no Fleetwood Mac Live album which is amazing. Without all this, Stevie's solo career would've never taken off (HYPERVENTILATES) and we'd have no Stevie and a moderately successful Fleetwood Mac that would've probably split up by 1982 and so no Mirage which is again, FANTASTIC. Without the mac being big, no Lindsey. No Lindsey = no Lindsey solo efforts which means no TINT which means no fight and no line up change in '87 and no tour and then no Greatest Hits. No Greatest Hits means that the band wouldn't realise it would work without Lindsey and therefore no BTM which is good but not the best however I wouldn't be without it. No Stevie career means Stevie would've never got mad at Mick over SS and never left the band she was never in to begin with and therefore no "Time" which I know a lot of people here love. No Time means no disastrous flop means no Lindsey solo effort AGAIN because he never made it big and therefore Mick wouldn't be drumming on his album and therefore no "The Dance". No "The Dance" and Christine wouldn't leave the band and therefore no Say You Will because Lindsey and Stevie were never in the band.


get it?

[chiliD]

It's true. Everything DOES happen for a reason. Think about it. If Stevie and Lindsey didn't join then we'd have no Rumours (despite being over played, it's still an amazing album) and FM would not be as big as they are today. Without Rumours, we'd have no Tusk which is one of the most important albums in rock history as it shows how diverse a band can be and made a lot of people realise you don't always have to sound the same. Without Tusk, no Tusk tour and no Fleetwood Mac Live album which is amazing. Without all this, Stevie's solo career would've never taken off (HYPERVENTILATES) and we'd have no Stevie and a moderately successful Fleetwood Mac that would've probably split up by 1982 and so no Mirage which is again, FANTASTIC. Without the mac being big, no Lindsey. No Lindsey = no Lindsey solo efforts which means no TINT which means no fight and no line up change in '87 and no tour and then no Greatest Hits. No Greatest Hits means that the band wouldn't realise it would work without Lindsey and therefore no BTM which is good but not the best however I wouldn't be without it. No Stevie career means Stevie would've never got mad at Mick over SS and never left the band she was never in to begin with and therefore no "Time" which I know a lot of people here love. No Time means no disastrous flop means no Lindsey solo effort AGAIN because he never made it big and therefore Mick wouldn't be drumming on his album and therefore no "The Dance". No "The Dance" and Christine wouldn't leave the band and therefore no Say You Will because Lindsey and Stevie were never in the band.


get it?

And, you say all that like they are BAD things. :shrug: :laugh:

I, for one, could have gone the rest of my life without Rumours and the subsequent phenomena that never has ceased since. The alternate hypothetical history might have been just as exciting and maybe even MORE artistic and definitely personally fulfilling.

I could've been perfectly happy with Fleetwood Mac being exactly the type of band they were prior to Rumours. Success ruined them.

[Little Nicki]

It's true. Everything DOES happen for a reason. Think about it. If Stevie and Lindsey didn't join then we'd have no Rumours (despite being over played, it's still an amazing album) and FM would not be as big as they are today. Without Rumours, we'd have no Tusk which is one of the most important albums in rock history as it shows how diverse a band can be and made a lot of people realise you don't always have to sound the same. Without Tusk, no Tusk tour and no Fleetwood Mac Live album which is amazing. Without all this, Stevie's solo career would've never taken off (HYPERVENTILATES) and we'd have no Stevie and a moderately successful Fleetwood Mac that would've probably split up by 1982 and so no Mirage which is again, FANTASTIC. Without the mac being big, no Lindsey. No Lindsey = no Lindsey solo efforts which means no TINT which means no fight and no line up change in '87 and no tour and then no Greatest Hits. No Greatest Hits means that the band wouldn't realise it would work without Lindsey and therefore no BTM which is good but not the best however I wouldn't be without it. No Stevie career means Stevie would've never got mad at Mick over SS and never left the band she was never in to begin with and therefore no "Time" which I know a lot of people here love. No Time means no disastrous flop means no Lindsey solo effort AGAIN because he never made it big and therefore Mick wouldn't be drumming on his album and therefore no "The Dance". No "The Dance" and Christine wouldn't leave the band and therefore no Say You Will because Lindsey and Stevie were never in the band.


get it?

That paragraph didn't tell me what your most recent level of completed schooling is.

[strandinthewind]

I, for one, would love to see a Stevie CM record. I always wanted them to do a duet, esp. in the Tusk/Mirage era.

On edit - paino only - no drums, guitar, etc. Just CM's heavenly playing and those two voices.

[danax6]

It's true. Everything DOES happen for a reason. Think about it. If Stevie and Lindsey didn't join then we'd have no Rumours (despite being over played, it's still an amazing album) and FM would not be as big as they are today. Without Rumours, we'd have no Tusk which is one of the most important albums in rock history as it shows how diverse a band can be and made a lot of people realise you don't always have to sound the same. Without Tusk, no Tusk tour and no Fleetwood Mac Live album which is amazing. Without all this, Stevie's solo career would've never taken off (HYPERVENTILATES) and we'd have no Stevie and a moderately successful Fleetwood Mac that would've probably split up by 1982 and so no Mirage which is again, FANTASTIC. Without the mac being big, no Lindsey. No Lindsey = no Lindsey solo efforts which means no TINT which means no fight and no line up change in '87 and no tour and then no Greatest Hits. No Greatest Hits means that the band wouldn't realise it would work without Lindsey and therefore no BTM which is good but not the best however I wouldn't be without it. No Stevie career means Stevie would've never got mad at Mick over SS and never left the band she was never in to begin with and therefore no "Time" which I know a lot of people here love. No Time means no disastrous flop means no Lindsey solo effort AGAIN because he never made it big and therefore Mick wouldn't be drumming on his album and therefore no "The Dance". No "The Dance" and Christine wouldn't leave the band and therefore no Say You Will because Lindsey and Stevie were never in the band.


get it?No, I don't really. It's a nice walk through FM history, but what does one have to do with the other?

[TheWILDheart]

And, you say all that like they are BAD things. :shrug: :laugh:

I, for one, could have gone the rest of my life without Rumours and the subsequent phenomena that never has ceased since. The alternate hypothetical history might have been just as exciting and maybe even MORE artistic and definitely personally fulfilling.

I could've been perfectly happy with Fleetwood Mac being exactly the type of band they were prior to Rumours. Success ruined them.

I can't imagine life without Post-1975 mac music and Stevie music in it now. I love at least half of every album since 1975 (except Time). And Stevie solo, for me, is even better! Just my opinion but I prefer rock/pop mac as apposed to rock/blues mac.


BTW, My completed level of schooling...I passed all my GCSE's except one and have just done a year of AS level's and going to college in September.

[Chrislit18]

I don't like any of those songs you listed, except No Questions Asked.

I agree 100%. I mean, Seven Wonders is good, but it technically is not a Stevie song...that Sandy lady wrote it [her last name escapes me...].

Personally, I would have prefered if Stevie left in 87 rather than Lindsey. Then they wouldn't have had BTM, and Rick and Billy never would have joined...I really don't like them...
Oh by the way...Dave Mason is going to be at Twin Rivers in CT [RI..idk...its a gambeling place...], I heard it in the dentists office today at like 1:30:laugh:

Lindsey and Chris are the best writers IMO...I think that a Mac album with those two would be miles better than SYW. Especially if they collaberated on the entire album <3

um. one thing to whoever said that "Hold Me" is a C/L collab....it really isnt...Christine and somebody else wrote it, all Lindsey did was sing on it [and guitar yada yada] but he didnt receive a writing credit...


but realistically, everyone knows FM wouldnt be half as popular, or in demand, without Stevie, and that is why no matter what they always bring her back, a C/L/M/J tour wouldnt demand the ticket price as if Stevie was there, or even sell as many tickets. Stevie def. is the attraction to the band for many

[chiliD]

Stevie def. is the attraction to the band for many

...with the implied "unfortunately" tacked onto the end of that. :nod:

[Chrislit18]

true...
it is a shame people can't get over her celebrity and find the genius of the band as a whole....

[DavidMn]

No Questions Asked
:shocked: :shocked: I just had nightmares. This TO ME, is a truly HIDEOUS song of Stevie's. It's like nails on a chalkboard to my eras.

[Hawkeye]

Thats funny, its the one song wild heart listed that I actually LIKE. It's a real diamond in the ruff of Stevie Mac tunes 87-92

[kathy1]

hi i don't think i would like fleetwood mac anymore if stevie were to leave.

[chiliD]

I dunno...I just think that the people who'd stop being Fleetwood Mac fans if Stevie left aren't really (now be honest) Fleetwood Mac fans at all; they're Stevie Nicks fans. There was a Fleetwood Mac (and many VERY GOOD incarnations of such) BEFORE Stevie Nicks joined, there'd be a Fleetwood Mac AFTER she leaves (as there already has been). One person does not DEFINE "Fleetwood Mac".

It's just like the situation with the Lakers & Kobe Bryant. I can't believe how many people are saying that they'd stop being Laker fans if Kobe leaves the team. Kobe isn't the be all, end all of the Los Angeles Lakers, just as Stevie Nicks is not the be all, end all of Fleetwood Mac.

[Tango]

I dunno...I just think that the people who'd stop being Fleetwood Mac fans if Stevie left aren't really (now be honest) Fleetwood Mac fans at all; they're Stevie Nicks fans. There was a Fleetwood Mac (and many VERY GOOD incarnations of such) BEFORE Stevie Nicks joined, there'd be a Fleetwood Mac AFTER she leaves (as there already has been). One person does not DEFINE "Fleetwood Mac".

It's just like the situation with the Lakers & Kobe Bryant. I can't believe how many people are saying that they'd stop being Laker fans if Kobe leaves the team. Kobe isn't the be all, end all of the Los Angeles Lakers, just as Stevie Nicks is not the be all, end all of Fleetwood Mac.

I agree with the first part of your answer- that there are clear cut Stevie fans no matter where she rests her hat. But the Lakers? I don't consider him the be all/end all of the Lakers either. He's not from LA at all, as is typical of most professional teams. He's from Pennsylvania. Eh. He should join the Sixers. In the end, I think we are merely cheering for the uniform.

With Fleetwood Mac are we, "cheering," so to speak, predominately for the rhythm and bass section? Fleetwood Mac is dead, yes? ;)

[Hawkeye]

I dunno...I just think that the people who'd stop being Fleetwood Mac fans if Stevie left aren't really (now be honest) Fleetwood Mac fans at all; they're Stevie Nicks fans. There was a Fleetwood Mac (and many VERY GOOD incarnations of such) BEFORE Stevie Nicks joined, there'd be a Fleetwood Mac AFTER she leaves (as there already has been). One person does not DEFINE "Fleetwood Mac".

It's just like the situation with the Lakers & Kobe Bryant. I can't believe how many people are saying that they'd stop being Laker fans if Kobe leaves the team. Kobe isn't the be all, end all of the Los Angeles Lakers, just as Stevie Nicks is not the be all, end all of Fleetwood Mac.


Well, why not have Stevie leave Fleetwood Mac and join the Lakers and have Kobe hang up his jersey for a mic in the new incarnation of Fleetwood Mac: Mick, John, Lindsey and Kobe. Kobe only Lakers fans would then have to become Fleetwood Mac fans, and all the Stevie only fans would then be Lakers fans :laugh:

Fans at the Staples Center: Stevie, quit spinning at half court and pass the danm ball.

[Chrislit18]

you see, it could work, but i think stevie might just be a wee too short to play basketball. especially with guys who are over a foot taller than her :lol:

[chiliD]

you see, it could work, but i think stevie might just be a wee too short to play basketball. especially with guys who are over a foot taller than her :lol:

Hell, her DRUMMER is over a foot taller than her. (Mick, I mean) :laugh:

[Chrislit18]

:laugh:, very true...but just imagine stevie attempting to run on the court in her heels, shed get trampled even then

and about mick, he sits down most of the time on stage, but with the other two guys, these days shes almost as tall as lindsey, and about the same height as john...:lol:

[Little Nicki]

With Fleetwood Mac, yes, one person is not the be all and end all, but with many other bands, the lead singer is. Generally the lead singer writes the songs and if they were to leave, getting another songwriter and vocalist to replace them would be an awfully big pill to swallow. They would be playing different music from a different person with a different voice. That's just about all the ingredients in pop music right there, and if somebody changed that much in my mother's apple pie recipe, it ain't the same pie! So with Stevie, if somebody only likes her songwriting and singing, they aren't fans of the band, but only because there are other singers and songwriters. Since the singer/songwriter dictates the majority of the band's sound, they are automatically a fan of the band as long as there's only the one singer/songwriter. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

[Gailh]

you see, it could work, but i think stevie might just be a wee too short to play basketball. especially with guys who are over a foot taller than her :lol:

Not when she wears her platform boots :lol:

Gail

[JazmenFlowers]

I dunno...I just think that the people who'd stop being Fleetwood Mac fans if Stevie left aren't really (now be honest) Fleetwood Mac fans at all; they're Stevie Nicks fans. There was a Fleetwood Mac (and many VERY GOOD incarnations of such) BEFORE Stevie Nicks joined, there'd be a Fleetwood Mac AFTER she leaves (as there already has been). One person does not DEFINE "Fleetwood Mac".
I actually think this is true and why I consider myself a Stevie fan more than a FMac fan. although, I do love the music they make, collectively. it's hard to explain, for me...or maybe it's just that I can't put it into words as well as you. I don't go to a FMac show to see just Stevie, but if Stevie and Christine weren't in the band, I'd probably not go.

[BlackWidow]

Stevie was the one with the stand out personality. She was new and fresh at the time and was something different. Everyone else was sort of bland in comparison to her so she was a breath of fresh air. She was also one of the first women to really rock out rather than sing about how her man treats her bad but she loves him anyway. Stevie was the one to turn around and say "ya kno what, If my man treats me bad, f*ck him!" She was doing things HER way and that was...and still is...the coolest thing EVA! Plus...she had the looks, the voice, the songs, the style...everything. STEVIE IS THE ROCK QUEEN!

love it...:nod:

[foxyluva]

I actually think this is true and why I consider myself a Stevie fan more than a FMac fan. although, I do love the music they make, collectively. it's hard to explain, for me...or maybe it's just that I can't put it into words as well as you. I don't go to a FMac show to see just Stevie, but if Stevie and Christine weren't in the band, I'd probably not go.

See, Im the same. I consider myself a Stevie fan first and foremost, but, when I listen to Fleetwood Mac, I don't necessarily listen for Stevie. I would buy a CD and go and see any line-up, as long as it wasn't lame, like the 'Time' band...

[ryan8472]

love it...:nod:

What are you smoking?

[Dreamz19]

I dunno...I just think that the people who'd stop being Fleetwood Mac fans if Stevie left aren't really (now be honest) Fleetwood Mac fans at all; they're Stevie Nicks fans. There was a Fleetwood Mac (and many VERY GOOD incarnations of such) BEFORE Stevie Nicks joined, there'd be a Fleetwood Mac AFTER she leaves (as there already has been). One person does not DEFINE "Fleetwood Mac".

I agree. When I started getting into FM about four years ago, I was a Stevie fan first and foremost. I really could care less about the other members (I hate to say that now). I still love Stevie and she remains my favorite member, but I appreciate Lindsey and Christine just as much now. I have also gotten into the Bob Welch era. That era was incredible and great with no Stevie. So as Stevie fan I could not possibly say that Stevie is the end all be all of FM. I feel that she needed them just as much as they needed her.

So I would absolutely buy an FM album if it was just Christine and Lindsey. I think they would do just fine without her. TITN is a great example of what they can do. It's one of my favorite FM albums and Chris and Lindsey pretty much made Tango for me. I didn't hate Stevie's songs like some, but none of them compared to Chris and Lindsey songs. "Tusk" is another example for me. Although I really love Stevie's "Tusk" songs now, I preferred Lindsey and Christine's songs when I first heard it.

[jbrownsjr]

I dunno...I just think that the people who'd stop being Fleetwood Mac fans if Stevie left aren't really (now be honest) Fleetwood Mac fans at all; they're Stevie Nicks fans. There was a Fleetwood Mac (and many VERY GOOD incarnations of such) BEFORE Stevie Nicks joined, there'd be a Fleetwood Mac AFTER she leaves (as there already has been). One person does not DEFINE "Fleetwood Mac".

It's just like the situation with the Lakers & Kobe Bryant. I can't believe how many people are saying that they'd stop being Laker fans if Kobe leaves the team. Kobe isn't the be all, end all of the Los Angeles Lakers, just as Stevie Nicks is not the be all, end all of Fleetwood Mac.

See this is why you have to root for the Cleveland Cavs... They have Lebron James who is a quiet superstar like Christine. He puts out all the hits... doesn't whine in the media like LB and you know when he retires he will do so with class and keep it within the organizations... He doesn't kick his other players either..

Wait hold on ... my cell phone is ringin..... oh it's kobe... he said he changed mind again.... :p

[JohnL]

I, for one, would love to see a Stevie CM record. I always wanted them to do a duet, esp. in the Tusk/Mirage era.

On edit - paino only - no drums, guitar, etc. Just CM's heavenly playing and those two voices.

Now there is a great idea!! I would LOVE to hear that.

[DavidMn]

See this is why you have to root for the Cleveland Cavs... They have Lebron James who is a quiet superstar like Christine. He puts out all the hits... doesn't whine in the media like LB and you know when he retires he will do so with class and keep it within the organizations... He doesn't kick his other players either..

Wait hold on ... my cell phone is ringin..... oh it's kobe... he said he changed mind again.... :pYeah he called me on my cell and decided he wants to sign a 10 year 1 million Contract with the Timberwolves!:lol: :lol:

[chiliD]

Yeah he called me on my cell and decided he wants to sign a 10 year 1 million Contract with the Timberwolves!:lol: :lol:

But the Lakers get KG in return. :p :lol:

[SteveMacD]

With Fleetwood Mac, yes, one person is not the be all and end all, but with many other bands, the lead singer is.

Great post. Generally speaking, you're right. Though, I love the exceptions to even that rule.

Genesis is an example of a band that was able to move on with the departure of Peter Gabriel, though, oddly enough, it didn't do well after Phil Collins quit. The Byrds are another weird example, in that Roger McGuinn is the only constant, BUT, during all of the eras, there were multiple singer/songwriters.

But, generally speaking, the typical example is like Kurt Cobain's role in Nirvana, where there was no way for the band to survive without him. Though, I have to give Dave Grohl a ton of credit for being able to break through with another band, and having that band develop a completely different sound and vibe. Sometimes I forget the whole Nirvana connection.

As for Fleetwood Mac without Stevie, I think what is being asked is would Mick, John, Lindsey, and Christine have been able to find success as Fleetwood Mac, without Stevie? By 1987, I think they could have made it. Stevie only had one single on "Tango," and it didn't chart as well as the others. I think the band's image would have taken an initial ding, but they could have made it. It's when others were added to the mix that things got weird, at least in the public image.

[Hawkeye]

Great post. Generally speaking, you're right. Though, I love the exceptions to even that rule.

Genesis is an example of a band that was able to move on with the departure of Peter Gabriel, though, oddly enough, it didn't do well after Phil Collins quit. The Byrds are another weird example, in that Roger McGuinn is the only constant, BUT, during all of the eras, there were multiple singer/songwriters.



.

I think an even better example is ACDC. They had great sucess with Bon Scott, and even MORE with like the 3rd best selling album of all time in Black in Black when he died. And the thing with them is when I first started getting into them and heard Highway to Hell, Dirty Deeds and TNT next to Back in Black, Hells Bells and Money Talks and couldn't tell it was two different people. Now I can tell, and probably prefer Bon, but its still pretty remarkable with them.

[jbrownsjr]

Yeah he called me on my cell and decided he wants to sign a 10 year 1 million Contract with the Timberwolves!:lol: :lol:

I would love to see KG get another player to play with... He's a warrior!!

[chiliD]

Great post. Generally speaking, you're right. Though, I love the exceptions to even that rule.

The firing of Dickey Betts hasn't hurt the Allman Bros Band...in fact, they've just gotten BETTER with Derek Trucks & Warren Haynes as guitarists (and Haynes as co-lead vocalist to Gregg Allman)

Sammy Hagar taking over lead vocal slot for Van Halen didn't hurt them either, but, when they tried the ex-Extreme singer when Sammy left, it didn't work.

Savoy Brown...lead guitarist Kim Simmonds is the only constant of some 50+ members over the years and he rarely sang a lick...they always had a front man...such as Dave Walker, Jackie Lynton, Stan Webb, or Dave Peverett (and many, many more)...yet they always maintained a constant sound.

[chiliD]

I would love to see KG get another player to play with... He's a warrior!!

Yeah, but it won't be with the T-Wolves...I doubt he'll be on the team in a couple of months.

[henryscutter]

See this is why you have to root for the Cleveland Cavs... They have Lebron James who is a quiet superstar like Christine. He puts out all the hits... doesn't whine in the media like LB and you know when he retires he will do so with class and keep it within the organizations... He doesn't kick his other players either..

Wait hold on ... my cell phone is ringin..... oh it's kobe... he said he changed mind again.... :p

:blob2: woo-hoo GO CAVS BEAT THE DETROIT PISSED-ONS :sorry: wrong message board.....what was this thread about again? Oh yeah a Stevieless mac - Yes I like lindsey and chris's music so I would probably buy the cd and maybe see a show if it was close to home. (as long as the cd isnt full of trash like their duets on Tango)

[Musicman408]

I would definately buy the record, but I don't know about seeing them live. It depends.

[jbrownsjr]

:blob2: woo-hoo GO CAVS BEAT THE DETROIT PISSED-ONS :sorry: wrong message board.....what was this thread about again? Oh yeah a Stevieless mac - Yes I like lindsey and chris's music so I would probably buy the cd and maybe see a show if it was close to home. (as long as the cd isnt full of trash like their duets on Tango)

CAVS IN NBA FINALS...?? WOW what next!!

Congrats to Lebron James he deserves it

[TheWILDheart]

Genesis is an example of a band that was able to move on with the departure of Peter Gabriel, though, oddly enough, it didn't do well after Phil Collins quit.

Actually, Calling All Stations hit #2 over here.

[jbrownsjr]

Actually, Calling All Stations hit #2 over here.


I like a lot of the songs on that album.... although it seemed incomplete...

[TheWILDheart]

I like a lot of the songs on that album.... although it seemed incomplete...

Can't say I've heard the album it's self but just my Dad ranting about it. Genesis is more his thing than mine though I don't mind the odd track and LOVE the Land Of Confusion video.

[xdreamsunwindx]

STEVIE IS THE ROCK QUEEN!

Since when is Stevie Nicks the same person as Janis Joplin?

[foxyluva]

Since when is Stevie Nicks the same person as Janis Joplin?

Exactly. Stevie is top 5 definately, but the title of Rock Queen will always beling to JJ. Or Grace Slick, depending on my mood...

[RavenOfRhiannon]

Stevie Nicks is not the end all be all of Fleetwood Mac.
Neither is Lindsey Buckingham
Neither is Christine McVie

I own BTM and I own SYW. I have listened to Time, and all three seem incomplete to me. They are all just ok albums. So for me, it's not so much that I would not buy an album without Stevie, it's that (for me) it needs to include all 3 singer/songwriters. There is just something about the chemistry of this Triad that bring out the best in every song.

(Anyone who knows me knows how hard that was to write...)