edge of 17

[Michelle Daya]

my first thread in sn forum :]

was edge written about lb? i ask because i know they met when he was about 17, he had just broken up with his gf or she went away & the lyrics "the music there, well it was hauntingly familiar." wasn't their first song california dreamin? probably a stretch on my part but wondering anyway :shrug:

[danax6]

Yeah, you don't want me to answer this question. I'll let someone else do the honors.

The song is about John Lennon. :wavey:

:laugh:

[Michelle Daya]

Yeah, you don't want me to answer this question. I'll let someone else do the honors.

The song is about John Lennon. :wavey:

:laugh:

wow you're fast!

is this a weird topic? john lennon? i'm just going by lyrics only & don't know if the lyrics are autobiographical but thought if they were, how many other guys would she write about on the edge of 17 & the place they met or so the lyrics make it sound?

the lyrics i copied from nicksfix. my interpretation may be a stretch but just an opinion.

the chorus i think she's talking about herself having an ambition to be free & to make it in music business

Just like the white winged dove...
sings a song ...
Sounds like she's singing...
whoo...whoo...whoo
Just like the white winged dove...
sings a song...
Sounds like she's singing...
ooo...baby...ooo...said ooo

this part i think she's talking about her life being a little boring & self-involved before meeting lb

And the days go by....
like a strand in the wind
In the web that is my own...
I begin again
Said to my friend, baby...
Nothin' else mattered

this verse i think is about their meeting

He was no more...than a baby then
Well he... seemed broken hearted...
something within him
But the moment...that I first laid...
Eyes...on...him...all alone...
On the edge of...seventeen

this chorus after singing with lb, having a vision of a career in singing

Just like the white winged dove...
sings a song ...
Sounds like she's singing...
whoo...whoo...whoo
Just like the white winged dove...
sings a song...
Sounds like she's singing...
ooo...baby...ooo...said ooo

this verse again about their meeting "and i see you doing what i try to do for me" meaning meshing well with words & melody or musically. something she tried but couldn't seem to do on her own back then? like she needed a ying to her yang.

I went today...maybe I will go again...
tomorrow
And the music there it was hauntingly...
familiar
And I see you doing...
what I try to do for me
With the words from a poet...
and the voice from a choir
And a melody...nothing else mattered


Just like the white winged dove...
sings a song ...
Sounds like she's singing...
whoo...whoo...whoo
Just like the white winged dove...
sings a song...
Sounds like she's singing...
ooo...baby...ooo...said ooo

all really symbolic like changes sometimes don't come when they're expected & she felt something changed in her that night

The clouds...never expect it...
when it rains
But the sea changes colours...
but the sea...
Does not change
And so...with the slow...graceful flow..
of age
I went forth...with an age old...
desire...to please
On the edge of...seventeen


Just like the white winged dove...
sings a song ...
Sounds like she's singing...
whoo...whoo...whoo
Just like the white winged dove...
sings a song...
Sounds like she's singing...
ooo...baby...ooo...said ooo

this verse i think everyone was gone but she knew something had happened to her & her call of the nightbird which i think means her calling as a singer
Well then suddenly...
there was no one...left standing
In the hall...yeah, yeah...
In a flood of tears
That no one really ever heard fall at all
Oh I went searchin' for an answer...
Up the stairs...and down the hall
Not to find an answer...
just to hear the call
Of a nightbird...singing...
come away...come away...


Just like the white winged dove...
sings a song ...
Sounds like she's singing...
whoo...whoo...whoo
Just like the white winged dove...
sings a song...
Sounds like she's singing...
ooo...baby...ooo...said ooo

last but not least that she couldn't stop thinking about him. "sometime to be near you is to be unable to hear you" i think means when she was with him she couldn't single-mindedly focus on his music or that she was distracted. i know they didn't get involved for a few years but imo there might have been an immediate attraction. maybe the fact that she was a little older held her back. one year isn't much but from 18 to 17, it is.

Well I hear you in the morning...
and I hear you...
At nightfall...
sometime to be near you...
Is to be unable...to hear you...
my love...
I'm a few years older than you...
are (I'm a few years older than you) my love


Just like the white winged dove...
sings a song...
Sounds like she's singing...
ooo baby...ooo...said ...(repeat)

[carrie721]

eo17 is one of those songs that stevie explains differently each time she's asked about it. it could be about her uncle (bill? john? mike? binky? who knows), it could be about john lennon, it could be about lindsey ... you get the picture.

here's a primer :laugh:

http://www.inherownwords.com/edge.htm

[danax6]

wow you're fast!

is this a weird topic?No, not weird, it's just one of those songs that I personally think is about something else entirely than what she's admitted to the public... where she talks about the circumstances surrounding her penning it down instead of what the song is actually about.

As for Edge of Seventeen, she said the idea for the title came to her when Jane Petty (Tom's then wife) was telling her she met Tom at the age of seventeen, but due to her southern accent Stevie thought she said edge of seventeen.

[JazmenFlowers]

^^^
exactly the site I was going to suggest. :thumbsup:

I just don't have the energy to get into it. :lol:

[NoSpeedLimit]

It's also explained in the CV cd/dvd that just came out

[Michelle Daya]

No, not weird, it's just one of those songs that I personally think is about something else entirely than what she's admitted to the public... where she talks about the circumstances surrounding her penning it down instead of what the song is actually about.

As for Edge of Seventeen, she said the idea for the title came to her when Jane Petty (Tom's then wife) was telling her she met Tom at the age of seventeen, but due to her southern accent Stevie thought she said edge of seventeen.

figures it was something simple like that :laugh:

i couldn't have been more off but i always wondered about it.

thanks :xoxo:

[danax6]

figures it was something simple like that :laugh:

i couldn't have been more off but i always wondered about it.

thanks :xoxo:Well, you actually do make a few valid points, and I really think that certain elements of the song are about LB (meeting at the age of seventeen, being no more than a baby, him doing what she tried to do for herself, going forth with a desire to please, being a few years older, my love, yadda, yadda) but all the white winged dove and nightbird stuff does pertain to the deaths of JL and her uncle, at least to a certain degree. The nightbird represents death and the white winged dove represents peace and serenity. Being Stevie labeled herself the 'peacekeeper' at various times I personally think that it's a little autobiographical in that extent.

This was the short version of my interpretation. ;)

[Michelle Daya]

eo17 is one of those songs that stevie explains differently each time she's asked about it. it could be about her uncle (bill? john? mike? binky? who knows), it could be about john lennon, it could be about lindsey ... you get the picture.

here's a primer :laugh:

http://www.inherownwords.com/edge.htm

wow that is sad. i almost feel like i trivialized it with my interpretation. it obviously was much deeper. thanks for the link.

[Michelle Daya]

[QUOTE=danax6;691657]Well, you actually do make a few valid points, and I really think that certain elements of the song are about LB (meeting at the age of seventeen, being no more than a baby, him doing what she tried to do for herself, going forth with a desire to please, being a few years older, my love, yadda, yadda) but all the white winged dove and nightbird stuff does pertain to the deaths of JL and her uncle, at least to a certain degree. The nightbird represents death and the white winged dove represents peace and serenity. Being Stevie labeled herself the 'peacekeeper' at various times I personally think that it's a little autobiographical in that extent.

This was the short version of my interpretation. ;)[

you are definitely right. maybe a little of lb was in there but my interp. was wayyyy off. i always thought it was kind of this happy song but there was some pain in there.

[priestofnothing]

this song has nothing to do with being 16 or 17 years old.

it's her most "abstract" song lyrically... she has even admitted this in interviews.

i don't think it has anything to do with lindsey either.

the wail in the middle.... on the edge of... seventeen.... oooooooooooowahhhhhhhhhhahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

in my opinion... (the wail) is the body leaving this world... and the spirit going to the next world... the life/death reference she has made so often about this song.

the nightbird (the call/symbol of death) isn't mentioned until - after- the wail....

the title... edge of 17, yes, was inspired by jane petty's "age of seventeen" remark, but stevie also said uncle john (bill) died just before midnight on the 16th of the month (that she witnessed) .... a la.. the "edge of 17" on the calendar.

the shippers think this is about her and lindsey as teenagers from the song title... but i disagree. i think it's much more abstract than the literal meaning all the shippers want to put on it.

this song has nothing to do with lindsey or being 17.

flame me now. but i'm entitled to my opinion and interpretation. discuss amongst yourselves.

LOL!

[carrie721]

^^ that's interesting. honestly, i've never tried to nail down my own interpretation because, well ... i don't really think there is a single interpretation that can explain everything that inspired this song. but i do enjoy reading others' and yours is one i've never heard before.

[danax6]

^
Hm, does thinking the song has elements of LB in it automatically make you a 'shipper'?

I agree with you in that some parts of the song are definitely very abstract and deep, but other parts are fairly literal and don't fit in with the idea behind the song that she has fed us. A lot of her songs are culminations of different things, whether they actually have anything to do with one another or not.

[priestofnothing]

^
Hm, does thinking the song has elements of LB in it automatically make you a 'shipper'?

I agree with you in that some parts of the song are definitely very abstract and deep, but other parts are fairly literal and don't fit in with the idea behind the song that she has fed us. A lot of her songs are culminations of different things, whether they actually have anything to do with one another or not.

No, it may have parts of Lindsey in it....


so I went forth with a desire
to please you on the edge of seventeen....

but i think this was more of a desire to please you [her family] than please you to [lindsey when they were 17 years old]...

she met lindsey twice before fritz when she or he was 17.

how intense of a connection is that? compared to your family who has known you YOUR ENTIRE LIFE up until you are 32 when you recorded this song... I think the family/death connection was much more intense, considering uncle john was the first "family" death she ever experienced..... (as she states on the CV DVD) when you are first crossed with death of a family member it is INTENSE and I can see how this would inspire such a strong, forceful song as this)... not a silly teenage heartbreak experience.... grow up! I can't even remember the last names of some of the high school people who were so "close" to me - and no, I'm not *that* ancient* I'm only 40.....but the family death experience was much more intense and painful than any high school crush I ever had, and I think it was for Stevie too.

[Richard B]

These interpretations are nice and all.

But what does Edge of 17 mean to you?

[catinthedark]

the shippers think this is about her and lindsey as teenagers from the song title... but i disagree. i think it's much more abstract than the literal meaning all the shippers want to put on it.

this song has nothing to do with lindsey or being 17.




i have never, ever heard a single person (here or anywhere else, shipper or not) say this song is about stevie and lindsey. :confused: what the hell?


it's one of the few songs stevie has described in detail, over and over. death. her uncle. john lennon.

[Michelle Daya]

i have never, ever heard a single person (here or anywhere else, shipper or not) say this song is about stevie and lindsey. :confused: what the hell?


it's one of the few songs stevie has described in detail, over and over. death. her uncle. john lennon.

yes, i got that. sorry. didn't know. but what the hell is wrong with song interpretation whether it's on target or not? :shrug:

[danax6]

No, it may have parts of Lindsey in it....


so I went forth with a desire
to please you on the edge of seventeen....

but i think this was more of a desire to please you [her family] than please you to [lindsey when they were 17 years old]...

she met lindsey twice before fritz when she or he was 17.

how intense of a connection is that? compared to your family who has known you YOUR ENTIRE LIFE up until you are 32 when you recorded this song... I think the family/death connection was much more intense, considering uncle john was the first "family" death she ever experienced..... (as she states on the CV DVD) when you are first crossed with death of a family member it is INTENSE and I can see how this would inspire such a strong, forceful song as this)... not a silly teenage heartbreak experience.... grow up! I can't even remember the last names of some of the high school people who were so "close" to me - and no, I'm not *that* ancient* I'm only 40.....but the family death experience was much more intense and painful than any high school crush I ever had, and I think it was for Stevie too.I absolutely agree that the death of a family member is much more intense, and really, I am not arguing that that's not what the song is about, because a large part is. That whole part of 'searching for an answer up the stairs and down the hall, not to find an answer, just to hear the call of a nightbird', that's all her talking about the deaths. The white winged dove parts also, but as I said that's more related to herself and her role in all of it, both concerning Jimmy Iovine and how she didn't know how to comfort him, give him peace and therefore went on to Phoenix where she wrote the song, and with her own family. (More elements of pleasing her family can be found on Rock a Little.)

Having said that, you might think that a chance meeting at the age of 17 or 18 or whatever isn't really intense or memorable, but Stevie mentioned quite a few times that she was captivated by him and even that she knew at that instant that he would have a huge impact on her life in some way or the other. :shrug: I don't necessarily think that 'going forth with an age old desire to please' was her talking about that moment right there, it could be said about any time in their on and off again relationship.

Regarding the other parts of the song that don't fit it with the whole family/death theory... I just think that one day she had a conversation with Jane Petty, by her own admission, about their relationship/marriage and realized that they had certain things in common. She told Jane that one day she would write a song about it, entitled Edge of Seventeen. She's also said that some of her songs are about other's people's stories, so I still stand by my theory and say that EO17 is about both deaths, her family, Jane/Tom > Stevie/Lindsey. It's not that farfetched, considering 98% of her songs are about either Lindsey or Greta Garbo (that's a joke people!). :p And like I said, many of her songs are a culmination of different things. Whatever was going through her head at the time I guess.

ETA: Addendum to casefile:

In lots of ways you can compare the song to Sara. Not really in terms of what it's about, but more in terms of setup. The verses basically all stand on their own and don't really have anything to do with one another. She's admitted to Sara being about a lot of different things. The whole part about Sara (once again, inspired by a friend of hers) is in fact Stevie talking about herself, which is the thin red line throughout the entire song. The same thing goes for Edge, like I explained earlier. We know that there are a lot more verses to Sara than the ones we know of, so I always believed that with the extra verses that we're missing we'd get a much clearer picture of what she was trying to say. We are all aware of that, therefore nobody ever really dares to go too deep into interpreting Sara. And I suspect Edge had more verses to it also, because the song as it is right now is kind of a jumbled mess.

i have never, ever heard a single person (here or anywhere else, shipper or not) say this song is about stevie and lindsey. what the hell?Really? I've had this discussion quite a few times and there are definitely other people that think there are elements of LB in it.

[JazmenFlowers]

Greta Garbo (that's a joke people!). :p
bwahahaha :laugh:

[catinthedark]

yes, i got that. sorry. didn't know. but what the hell is wrong with song interpretation whether it's on target or not? :shrug:

check the quote - i wasn't responding to you. chill.

and all i was saying is that i have never heard that interpretation.

[belladonnadream]

Wow I never really thought of this as a song that could have anything to do with Lindsay! I always thought that it was the only song that had nothing to do with Lindsay! I always took Stevie's word in interviews about what the meaning of it was~ which of course is the Tom and Jane part when they met at the age of 17 and the John Lennon and Uncle John part where they both died around the same time. The wwdove symbolizing the soul leaving the body, and where she says nothing else mattered but them at that point. She has said this a lot in interviews. The nightbird is also a symbol of death~ the calling of`~ the part of I see you doing what I try to do for me , I thought that was in honor of or reference maybe to John Lennon. But now that you questioned about Lindsay, who knows, it could be possible that some of the song is about him and she's just never said, maybe out of embarrassment that so MANY of her songs Are about Lindsay. She always has like 5 things going on in a song that maybe a little part of it is about him and she just got the idea from Jane Petty but related it to her and Lindsay's life as well and has never let the cat out of the bag. She had a hard time admitting that Blue Denim was a bout him and I'm sure I Still miss Someon(Blue Eyes) is about him. Of course 80 % of Mac songs have something to do with him so who knows. Clever thinking!
Jenni

[belladonnadream]

Wow I never really thought of this as a song that could have anything to do with Lindsay! I always thought that it was the only song that had nothing to do with Lindsay! I always took Stevie's word in interviews about what the meaning of it was~ which of course is the Tom and Jane part when they met at the age of 17 and the John Lennon and Uncle John part where they both died around the same time. The wwdove symbolizing the soul leaving the body, and where she says nothing else mattered but them at that point. She has said this a lot in interviews. The nightbird is also a symbol of death~ the calling of`~ the part of I see you doing what I try to do for me , I thought that was in honor of or reference maybe to John Lennon. But now that you questioned about Lindsay, who knows, it could be possible that some of the song is about him and she's just never said, maybe out of embarrassment that so MANY of her songs Are about Lindsay. She always has like 5 things going on in a song that maybe a little part of it is about him and she just got the idea from Jane Petty but related it to her and Lindsay's life as well and has never let the cat out of the bag. She had a hard time admitting that Blue Denim was about him and I'm sure I Still miss Someone(Blue Eyes) is about him. Of course 80 % of Mac songs have something to do with him so who knows. Clever thinking!
Jenni