Gas Prices.... Completely Outrageous!!! How Much Are They Where You Are???

[Musicman408]

Who is with me when it comes to rediculous gas prices. Oil is not at a going rate that would warrent the 2.99 price in my hometown. It is rediculous. I was thinking that Democrats would do something about it, and it only seems to have gotten worse.

What do you all think? What does gas run in your area?

Much Love,
Ethan

[carrie721]

do you drive :confused: :laugh:

[Musicman408]

do you drive :confused: :laugh:

Well I did pre-surgery and it hasn't been 6 weeks yet.:laugh:

Plus, it hurts me to see people, including my parent pay these rediculous prices.:nod:

[carrie721]

Well I did pre-surgery and it hasn't been 6 weeks yet.:laugh:

Plus, it hurts me to see people, including my parent pay these rediculous prices.:nod:

yeah, i just try to remember that our neighbor canada pays almost $5/gallon, and other countries pay more. so i dunno if $3/gallon is completely outrageous.

[mikeschmike]

yeah, i just try to remember that our neighbor canada pays almost $5/gallon, and other countries pay more. so i dunno if $3/gallon is completely outrageous.

Poor Canada. It already has to deal with that BARBARIC metric system and now this?

Completely ridiculous.

[carrie721]

Poor Canada. It already has to deal with that BARBARIC metric system and now this?

Completely ridiculous.

i know, it's actually like 1.20 a litRE or some ****. wtf? :laugh:

[bretonbanquet]

Well over $7 per US gallon here - get over it :)

[carrie721]

Well over $7 per US gallon here - get over it :)

:laugh: i was wondering if you'd chime in. for someone who drives as much as you do that must be killer. :mad:

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Well over $7 per US gallon here - get over it :)
Was about to post but you beat me to it!

[bretonbanquet]

Was about to post but you beat me to it!

You couldn't resist it either, huh? :laugh:

:laugh: i was wondering if you'd chime in. for someone who drives as much as you do that must be killer. :mad:

yeah I spend around $200 a week on gas :shrug:

[irishgrl]

considering that Chevron Oil, the biggest supplier of Oil for America, just posted an 18% profit increase for the first quarter--based SOLELY on gouging the American public, I think Ethan's outrage is well-placed.

We cant compare our gas prices with other countries (sorry Canada and Britain)
because their monetary systems are different than ours. like twice as much. pretty hard to make a fair comparison


ETA: California is paying the highest prices in the Nation. Well over $3/gallon.

[bretonbanquet]

considering that Chevron Oil, the biggest supplier of Oil for America, just posted an 18% profit increase for the first quarter--based SOLELY on gouging the American public, I think Ethan's outrage is well-placed.

We cant compare our gas prices with other countries (sorry Canada and Britain)
because their monetary systems are different than ours. like twice as much.

So: at that logic, US consumers would be paying $6 at the pump. still much higher than Canada or Britain........

That's just crap :shrug:

[carrie721]

yeah I spend around $200 a week on gas :shrug:

effing bat**** crazy.

[77Rumours77]

$2.89 - Of course I have to drive an old buick that gets a whole whopping 15mpg! Plus with a 14 gallon tank, it cost me around $43 dollars to fill up to ONLY get 210 miles on a tank..... Yea and I have to drive 50 miles to and from school twice a week... theres 100 miles.


Yea, I need a new car!

[mikeschmike]

effing bat**** crazy.

Agreed.

Speaking of which, the $6-7/per gallon price in Europe is figured in adjusted US red white and blue dollars.

[irishgrl]

That's just crap :shrug:
how so??? please elaborate.

[carrie721]

Agreed.

Speaking of which, the $6-7/per gallon price in Europe is figured in adjusted US red white and blue dollars.

i thought our dollars were green :confused: :confused: :confused:

[mikeschmike]

i thought our dollars were green :confused: :confused: :confused:

Somebody BAN this terrorist!

*runs to local Homeland Security branch*

[irishgrl]

Agreed.

Speaking of which, the $6-7/per gallon price in Europe is figured in adjusted US red white and blue dollars.
if true, then thats truly heinous. However, It makes my blood boil when Chevron and other Oil Cartels gouge consumers just to make a profit. I mean, in this country they're supposed to be regulated. There are supposed to be safeguards. I guess they're taking a nap.

[bretonbanquet]

how so??? please elaborate.

You said our monetary systems are different. Which is relevant how? Our fuel costs over $7 a US gallon - in your money. Theres your fair comparison. Well over twice what you guys pay. If we earned well over twice what you earn, then fair enough, but we don't.

[carrie721]

Somebody BAN this terrorist!

*runs to local Homeland Security branch*

:(

i never should've told my name was carrie bin laden.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

if true, then thats truly heinous.

It is true

[irishgrl]

also: I think it IS significant that the dollar is only worth about HALF of the British Pound Sterling, which (as far as I can tell) makes our basic outlay on either side of the pond about the same. If Europe is paying twice as much but their money is twice as valuable, then effectively we are paying the same.

[irishgrl]

You said our monetary systems are different. Which is relevant how? Our fuel costs over $7 a US gallon - in your money. Theres your fair comparison. Well over twice what you guys pay. If we earned well over twice what you earn, then fair enough, but we don't.
I think it would be helpful to see a graphic.

[mikeschmike]

also: I think it IS significant that the dollar is only worth about HALF of the British Pound Sterling, which (as far as I can tell) makes our basic outlay on either side of the pond about the same. If Europe is paying twice as much but their money is twice as valuable, then effectively we are paying the same.

That doesn't really effect the individual consumer. Perhaps US and UK petroleum buyers are paying the same, but it doesn't really "trickle down" to the guy at the pump.

[estranged4life]

gas is $2.75 a gallon here, and ya know what, who cares....

I knew the prices would climb, and since we have no choice, we still have to drive (Well Deb does actually) an average 900 miles every 2 weeks for work.

We dont bitch about it - we just accept it (Our new used car, a 2000 Ford Escort, gets the same gas milage as the Nissan did, about 35 miles a gallon)

[irishgrl]

I found an old article (or at least only partially true since CA is paying well over $3/gal at the pump).....anyway, I can see why Europe is hurting....that really sucks you guys..

Gas prices too high? Try Europe.
$7 a gallon? That's what drivers in Amsterdam pay. But Europeans have long adapted to high prices.
By Peter Ford | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
PARIS – When Guy Colombier pulls his economy car up to a Paris pump, he allows himself just 15 Euros ($18) worth of gas - barely enough for three gallons. Since prices started rising rapidly earlier this year, says Mr. Colombier, a printing press worker, "I drive a lot more slowly ... and I'm looking for a place to live closer to where I work."

Colombier's pain is shared by drivers all over Europe, where fuel prices are the highest in the world: a gallon of gas in Amsterdam now costs $7.13, compared with just $2.61 in America. The contrast in prices and environmental policies - and the dramatically different behaviors they inspire - signals a widening transatlantic energy gap. And it raises the question: Does Europe offer America a glimpse of its future?
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Indeed, while Europeans have learned to cope with expensive fuel (mostly due to taxes), there's scant evidence yet that US drivers are adopting their conservation tactics.

"Societies adjust over decades to higher fuel prices," says Jos Dings, head of Transport and Energy, a coalition of European environmental NGOs. "They find many mechanisms."

Chief among them, say experts, is the habit of driving smaller and more fuel-efficient cars. While the average light duty vehicle on US highways gets 21.6 miles per gallon (m.p.g.), according to a study by the Paris based International Energy Agency (IEA), in Paris, its European counterpart manages 32.1 m.p.g.

"European consumers are very sensitive to fuel economy and sophisticated about engine options," says Lew Fulton, a transport analyst with the United Nations Environment Program (UNEP). "European car magazines are full of comparisons of fuel costs over the life of a vehicle."

Europe's cars: 40 percent are diesel

That approach has given a special boost to diesel cars, which make up more than 40 percent of European car sales, compared with just 4 percent in the US.

Just ahead of Colombier in the line at the gas station Thursday was Nicole Marie, a high school teacher, who was using her husband's diesel Audi, rather than her own gasoline-powered car, to take her daughter to Normandy for a final week of vacation by the sea.

"I only use my car in town," she says. "We bought a diesel car deliberately because it is cheaper to run."

That is partly because the French government encourages the use of more- efficient diesel fuel by taxing it less heavily. Only in four European countries is diesel more expensive than gasoline, the way it is in America.

But efficiency alone does not explain the huge disparity between fuel-use figures on either side of the Atlantic: European per capita consumption of gas and diesel stood at 286 liters a year in 2001, compared to 1,624 in the US, according to IEA figures.

The nature of cities plays a role, too. "America has built its entire society around the car, which enabled suburbs," points out Mr. Dings. "European cities have denser centers where cars are often not practical."

In Paris, for example, about half the trips people make are by foot, by bicycle, or on public transport, says UNEP's Mr. Fulton. In America, that figure is more like 20 percent.

Impact of fuel tax

"The single most effective measure" that has brought down motorists' fuel use in Europe, however, is taxation, says Dings.

On average, 60 percent of the price European drivers pay at the pump goes to their governments in taxes.

In Britain, the government takes 75 percent, and raises taxes by 5 percent above inflation every year (though it has forgone this year's rise in view of rocketing oil prices, and the French government has promised tax rebates this year to taxi drivers, truckers, fishermen, and others who depend heavily on gasoline.) On August 8, for example, the price of gas in the US, without taxes, would be $2.17, instead of $2.56; in Britain, it would be $1.97, instead of $6.06.

"There is really good evidence that higher prices reduce traffic," says Stephen Glaister, a professor of transportation at London's Imperial College. "If fuel prices go up 10 percent ... fuel consumed goes down by about 7 percent, as people start to use fuel more efficiently, not accelerating so aggressively and switching to more fuel-efficient cars. It does change people's behavior."

The US authorities, however, "are unwilling to use resource price as part of their strategy" to conserve oil, says Lee Schipper, head of transportation research at the Washington-based World Resources Institute, an environmental think tank.

"The biggest hole in our policy today is fuel taxation," he adds. "Tax increases are something Americans should do but don't know how to do, and I wonder if they will ever be able to.

"Consumers want muscle cars, manufacturers say they make what the consumer wants, and the government panders to both constituencies," Mr. Schipper continues. "It's a vicious cycle."

Story continues below
(Photograph)
EASY DOES IT: An attendant pumped gasoline in downtown Milan, Italy, earlier this month. In many European cities, gas costs more than twice as much as in America.
ANTONIO CALANNI/AP

Europeans may drive smaller cars, but there are few signs that the current record gas prices are making them drive less.

Germans who live close to the Czech Republic can drive across the border to take advantage of the lowest prices in Europe, but most people "cannot react to [the prices] because they still need to drive a lot," says Jürgen Albrecht, an official with Germany's largest auto club, the ADAC. "I can't say I'm not going to drive the 50 kilometers [31 miles] to work because of the high gas prices. It doesn't work that way."

"Most people have no alternative, particularly those who live in rural areas," says Paul Hodgson of the RAC, the British motoring association. "A lot of motorists tell us that if there was a decent and affordable public transport system they would use that ... but we are still a long way from having an alternative."

Prices vary widely across Europe. The Greeks, for example, are getting off comparatively lightly, with just $4.32 a gallon. But they're not exactly celebrating.

On the Greek isles, where almost everything comes in by boat, residents are hit even harder by rising fuel prices. "Whatever you do, it all comes back to gasoline," huffs Dimitra Vogiatzi, who sells produce on the far-flung island of Patmos, as she slams closed her massive ledger.

Ms. Vogiatzi has been obliged to raise her prices, and more and more of her customers are buying on credit, she complains. "Imagine if we need a doctor, or someone has to have a baby," she adds. "All the boat fares, coming and going - isn't that gasoline?"



' There is really good evidence that higher prices reduce traffic.'

Stephen Glaister, a professor of transportation at London's Imperial College



Related stories:
08/16/05
As gasoline prices rise, businesses get creative
07/22/05
As prices climb, more drivers flee pumps without paying
05/27/05
Why Americans are on the road again



Though shipping costs in the Aegean may remain high, European Union regulations are forcing vehicle manufacturers to make their products even more efficient than they already are.

Though their primary motivation is to reduce CO2 emissions, in line with targets set by the Kyoto Protocol, bio-fuel and hybrid cars are still so rare that increased fuel efficiency is the fastest route to lower emissions, says Dolf Gielen, an expert at the IEA.

CO2 emissions from new European cars fell by 12 percent from 1995 to 2003, according to Mr. Gielen, and manufacturers have voluntarily pledged to reduce them by a further 14 per cent by 2008, he adds.

European governments are proposing tax breaks to encourage motorists to take advantage of these possibilities. Belgian drivers who buy a low-emissions vehicle get a 15 percent price rebate; Spain cuts $865 from the cost of registering a car if it replaces a car using leaded gas more than 10 years old; Hungary waives registration tax for hybrid cars.

End of the road for SUVs?

Though US vehicles' fuel efficiency has improved greatly over the past 30 years, overall consumption has risen in the past decade because consumers and manufacturers have used the leeway offered by the new technology to buy and build bigger and more powerful vehicles, experts say.

Environmentalists wonder whether the current price spike in gas prices might lead to a lasting change in US behavior. "The exciting thing now is that we are almost at the real high point of prices in 1981," says Mr. Schipper. "We'll see if American manufacturers, authorities, and drivers realize that these prices may now be locked in."

"Sales of big SUVs have been dropping in the last few months," points out Fulton. "We are now at the point where people believe this is real and they are reacting. The longer it goes on, the more they will react."

• Mark Rice-Oxley in London, Andreas Tzortzis in Berlin, and John Thorne in Patmos contributed to this article.
(Graphic)
SOURCE: AN AND SAUER, 2004, FOR THE PEW CENTER ON GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE; SCOTT WALLACE - STAFF

[bretonbanquet]

also: I think it IS significant that the dollar is only worth about HALF of the British Pound Sterling, which (as far as I can tell) makes our basic outlay on either side of the pond about the same. If Europe is paying twice as much but their money is twice as valuable, then effectively we are paying the same.

That woud be true if we earned twice what you guys earn. But we don't, not anything like it. Don't you see that?

I think it would be helpful to see a graphic.

I'm fresh out of graphics :shrug:

[irishgrl]

here's another...

Europe, With Other Woes, Takes Gas Prices in Stride

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By MARK LANDLER and CARTER DOUGHERTY
Published: September 1, 2005

FRANKFURT, Aug. 31 - Tiziano Colombo, an engineer from Milan, hit the road this summer, driving with his wife and in-laws in a rented van through Austria, Germany, Belgium, Holland and France.
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Agence France-Presse - Getty Images

A driver fills his tank in France, where the base price of gasoline is higher than in the United States.

With oil prices rising during his two-week vacation, Mr. Colombo spent $670 on diesel to fill his Ford Transit. By his arithmetic, it was still cheaper than buying train tickets for four people. The cost of traveling by car would have to nearly double, he said, before he would consider switching.

"The car is freedom, and freedom is what we were after," Mr. Colombo, 53, said, sounding like an American. "Obviously, if I was doing this trip by myself, you'd have a hard time justifying the extra cost."

Soaring oil prices have begun to rattle Europeans, just as they have Americans, with the disruption of oil production in the United States by Hurricane Katrina driving gasoline prices in Europe to new records as well.

But the reaction of Europeans has been less dramatic because of the higher base price of fuel, the strength of the euro against the dollar and Europe's three-decade search for alternatives to fossil fuels, which has made it a bit less vulnerable to spikes in the price of crude oil.

[DrummerDeanna]

It is true

I want proof. I'm going to need to see some credit card/debit card reciepts, Pip ;)

Gas prices, they're going to gouge us this summer for sure...but there's nothing we can do but continue to take it in the ass...or buy a bike...but some people live in places where biking everywhere is not feasible..hmm...like HERE! Horrible public tranport and sprawling...no bike.

And I'm sorry..pet peeve alert...Ethan it rIdiculous, not rediculous. I just thought I'd let you know. :nod:

[mikeschmike]

here's another...

that's good, although WE didn't need convincing. :laugh:

[irishgrl]

You said our monetary systems are different. Which is relevant how? Our fuel costs over $7 a US gallon - in your money. Theres your fair comparison. Well over twice what you guys pay. If we earned well over twice what you earn, then fair enough, but we don't.
um, you do, or close to it. compare the pound to the dollar. Last I heard, the Pound = $1.40 or somesuch....the Pound is worth more.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

I want proof. I'm going to need to see some credit card/debit card reciepts, Pip ;)

Gas prices, they're going to gouge us this summer for sure...but there's nothing we can do but continue to take it in the ass...or buy a bike...but some people live in places where biking everywhere is not feasible..hmm...like HERE! Horrible public tranport and sprawling...no bike.

And I'm sorry..pet peeve alert...Ethan it rIdiculous, not rediculous. I just thought I'd let you know. :nod:

I have plenty of receipts stuffed in my purse! I filled up my Beetle the other day and it cost me around £45!

Oh and I'm glad someone else was bugged by the spelling... thought I was just being anal!

[DrummerDeanna]

I have plenty of receipts stuffed in my purse! I filled up my Beetle the other day and it cost me around £45!

Oh and I'm glad someone else was bugged by the spelling... thought I was just being anal!

No..it bugs me every. single. time. (and when anyone does it before I get accused to picking on Ethan alone) :laugh: So I thought I'd point it out.

Geez...I'm floored that it cost that much to fill a Beetle...holy damn!

[irishgrl]

I have plenty of receipts stuffed in my purse! I filled up my Beetle the other day and it cost me around £45!

Oh and I'm glad someone else was bugged by the spelling... thought I was just being anal!
out of curiosity, how long will that last you? in other words how many miles to the gallon/litre do you get?

I get maybe 15 mpg and have to fill up every 4 days. My son's visitation schedule makes it like another work week in a weekend so my gas bill is at least 350 to 400 $$$/mo at LEAST.

[bretonbanquet]

um, you do, or close to it. compare the pound to the dollar. Last I heard, the Pound = $1.40 or somesuch....the Pound is worth more.

You need to check more often - the pound is worth $2... how you think that means we earn twice what you earn, in real terms, I have NO idea. But you carry on, huh? :)

[estranged4life]

but there's nothing we can do but continue to take it in the ass...or buy a bike...but some people live in places where biking everywhere is not feasible..hmm...like HERE! Horrible public tranport and sprawling...no bike.

we live in an area (Caddo County is one of the poorest counties of the 77 in Oklahoma) where the closest town with ANY employment is 45 miles away, so we have no choice but to suck it up.

We dont bitch about it like most, we just deal with it (Which is why we opted for another small sedan sized car)

Personally I prefer to cut back on food purchases, as opposed to say, MUSIC purchases during the gas price hikes :thumbsup:

Oh, by the way - A refinery in Wynnewood is burning - so get prepared for more ass gouging, I meant Gas gouging!

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

out of curiosity, how long will that last you? in other words how many miles to the gallon/litre do you get?

I get maybe 15 mpg and have to fill up every 4 days. My son's visitation schedule makes it like another work week in a weekend so my gas bill is at least 350 to 400 $$$/mo at LEAST.

Hmmm... I have no clue to be honest. I just fill up when it tells me I need to! I do know I fill up every couple of weeks and that's just from running around town and ferrying the kids to school

[irishgrl]

You need to check more often - the pound is worth $2... how you think that means we earn twice what you earn, in real terms, I have NO idea. But you carry on, huh? :)
so, ok if you earn twice as much and pay twice as much, I guess we're even. simple.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

we live in an area (Caddo County is one of the poorest counties of the 77 in Oklahoma) where the closest town with ANY employment is 45 miles away, so we have no choice but to suck it up.

We dont bitch about it like most, we just deal with it (Which is why we opted for another small sedan sized car)

It does make me chuckle how this type of thread pops up over and over again on here. Usually started by someone in the US moaning about the price of gas and then us Brits pipe up how much we pay.... and on it goes.....

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

so, ok if you earn twice as much and pay twice as much, I guess we're even. simple.

Who says we earn twice as much?

[irishgrl]

Who says we earn twice as much?
um: the pound is WORTH twice as much as the dollar??? so, if we are looking at prices in terms of US Dollars, thats not a fair comparison because your money is worth twice as much as ours.....

[bretonbanquet]

so, ok if you earn twice as much and pay twice as much, I guess we're even. simple.

You're hilarious.. what the hell is the matter with you?? You don't even read what I've said! You stick to your logic and everyone else will carry on regardless :)

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

um: the pound is WORTH twice as much as the dollar??? so, if we are looking at prices in terms of US Dollars, thats not a fair comparison because your money is worth twice as much as ours.....

Oh if only it was a straight forward as that.

[DrummerDeanna]

It does make me chuckle how this type of thread pops up over and over again on here. Usually started by someone in the US moaning about the price of gas and then us Brits pipe up how much we pay.... and on it goes.....

I know, right? Because what Brian said, and what I said before him...we've said it all before :laugh: So yeah....I'm a repetive person, so I don't necessarily mind having the same conversation over and over again...but it's true that it's always started by one of us and then we get to hear about how ****ty prices actually are in other parts of the world :lol:

Oh...I once read this article that put gas prices into perspective by comparing what we'd pay for other items if they were priced like gasoline...and by that comparison gas was STILL cheap over here....so yeah, I stopped bitching about it long ago, it does no good anyway :shrug:

[irishgrl]

You're hilarious.. what the hell is the matter with you?? You don't even read what I've said! You stick to your logic and everyone else will carry on regardless :)
Um you said the pound was worth $2 American dollars. If you are paying more at your pump but you are adjusting it to American DOLLAR rates, apparently you arent considering that European monetary value is TWICE as HIGH as American. :shrug:

personally, I think Europeans forget that crucial aspect of info. you cant compare prices unless you compare wages. and when you compare wages you need to compare monetary values.

[estranged4life]

It does make me chuckle how this type of thread pops up over and over again on here. Usually started by someone in the US moaning about the price of gas and then us Brits pipe up how much we pay.... and on it goes.....

us 'old' Ledgies are used to these kinds of threads by now, right? :thumbsup: I can remember threads where people here in the US whined about $2 a gallon gasoline, But they forgot our Ledge friends of the other side of the pond and their higher gasoline prices :nod:

Nothing new here on the Ledge :lol:

[bretonbanquet]

Um you said the pound was worth $2 American dollars. If you are paying more at your pump but you are adjusting it to American DOLLAR rates, apparently you arent considering that European monetary value is TWICE as HIGH as American. :shrug:

personally, I think Europeans forget that crucial aspect of info. you cant compare prices unless you compare wages. and when you compare wages you need to compare monetary values.

I'm not going to waste my time explaining elementary mathematics to you if you can't see understand something this simple. And it amuses me that you say "Um" at the beginning of every post like it's the rest of us that are remedial. Comparing wages is exactly what I've been doing here.. and you seem to already know what we earn over here...

[carrie721]

look, it's a graphic!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/32/International_Median_Household_Income.png

[mikeschmike]

I'm not going to waste my time explaining elementary mathematics to you if you can't see understand something this simple. And it amuses me that you say "Um" at the beginning of every post like it's the rest of us that are remedial. Comparing wages is exactly what I've been doing here.. and you seem to already know what we earn over here...

http://blogs.smh.com.au/mashup/images/applause.gif

[irishgrl]

look, it's a graphic!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/32/International_Median_Household_Income.png
yes. a singularly useless graphic. thank you.

Breton:

how much do YOU pay? in Pounds Sterling, at the pump? lets start from that.

[estranged4life]

^^^
Great now my (damaged) brain is FUBAR'd again due to statistics...Gee, thanks for killing my weekend :lol:

Brian "Had to take a 'statistical knowledge and analysis' course in college years ago...."Hated it", Give it the "Around-the-World-Z snap" " j.

[irishgrl]

http://blogs.smh.com.au/mashup/images/applause.gif
nice. not sure what Ive done/said to deserve that bit of snark but, you're very clever. good gif hunting.

[bretonbanquet]

yes. a singularly useless graphic. thank you.

Breton:

how much do YOU pay? in Pounds Sterling, at the pump? lets start from that.


I'll give this one shot.

we pay about 95p per litre. We don't use gallons, so you'll have to convert. I already converted btw, so I know what it is.

[carrie721]

yes. a singularly useless graphic. thank you.

you didn't specify.

are you saying you don't think it's relevant that the US has a higher household income? if we have a higher household income, and we pay less at the pump, then your argument is wrong.

[irishgrl]

you didn't specify.

are you saying you don't think it's relevant that the US has a higher household income? if we have a higher household income, and we pay less at the pump, then your argument is wrong.
Im not at all sure we have a higher household income. I know our money is worth half as much as Britain's. I have yet to figure out what this means in terms of real costs at the pump.

Breton: 95p: is that Pence or Pounds?


btw: this doesnt have to be a boxing match, I think we can ALL agree that we are getting gouged by the oil companies, whether we live on one side of the pond or another...

[carrie721]

Im not at all sure we have a higher household income. I know our money is worth half as much as Britain's. I have yet to figure out what this means in terms of real costs at the pump.

the graphic, although crude, illustrates that your claim that in the UK they make twice as much as we do is incorrect. their pound is worth two of our dollars, but that doesn't mean they make twice as much as we do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income#International_statistics

[mikeschmike]

nice. not sure what Ive done/said to deserve that bit of snark but, you're very clever. good gif hunting.

I was just agreeing with what BB was saying. I think this whole thing is getting out of control, because I think you have an idea in your head of how things work, and you're not listening to what actual inhabitants of the UK are saying. You posted the articles above yourself, and nowhere does it say that Europe and the US are on an even keel with paying for gas. Sure it may make sense to you, but it's not necessarily how it works.

[bretonbanquet]

Im not at all sure we have a higher household income. I know our money is worth half as much as Britain's. I have yet to figure out what this means in terms of real costs at the pump.

Breton: 95p: is that Pence or Pounds?

95 pence.
0.95 pounds

[carrie721]

Brian "Had to take a statistical knowledge course in college years ago...."Hated it", Give it the "Around-the-World-Z snap" " j.

that is some serious hate. :laugh:

[irishgrl]

95 pence.
0.95 pounds
ok: you pay 95cents at the pump for a litre right? If not, please tell me what measure you pay per litre at the pump,

[bretonbanquet]

ok: you pay 95cents at the pump for a litre right?

No. 95 pence.

$1.90.

[irishgrl]

No. 95 pence.

$1.90.
ok. Ive found a conversion site, lets see that that amounts to here...hang on.

[carrie721]

egad. converted, it's $7.20/gallon in the UK.

[irishgrl]

I think the easiest way to illustrate the difference is to do this....

http://www.teaching-english-in-japan.net/conversion/gallons


so, what does it mean??

[carrie721]

^^ we already know the conversion from liters into gallons ... they pay $7.20/gallon.

[irishgrl]

^^ we already know the conversion from liters into gallons ... they pay $7.20/gallon.
ok, but someone please tell me if their Pound is worth twice as much as our dollar, how is that significantly different in terms of net cost? If they earn twice as much and pay twice as much then it looks like its about the same net cost between us. If I've missed something, please let me know.

[irishgrl]

egad. converted, it's $7.20/gallon in the UK.
Therefore, $7.20 a gallon......is that in US dollars or is that in Euros?? that makes a big difference.

[bretonbanquet]

ok, but someone please tell me if their Pound is worth twice as much as our dollar, how is that significantly different in terms of net cost? If they earn twice as much and pay twice as much then it looks like its about the same net cost between us. If I've missed something, please let me know.

Why in the hell do you make this jump that we earn twice as much????? That's what you've missed!!!

[carrie721]

ok, but someone please tell me if their Pound is worth twice as much as our dollar, how is that significantly different in terms of net cost? If they earn twice as much and pay twice as much then it looks like its about the same net cost between us. If I've missed something, please let me know.

a couple posts up i posted that wiki article about median household income. according to that table, the MHI in the US in 2006 was $46,000 whereas in the UK in 2005 (i'm guessing that was the most recently available data) was $39,000. so they don't make twice as much as we do.

[carrie721]

Therefore, $7.20 a gallon......is that in US dollars or is that in Euros?? that makes a big difference.

that's in US dollars. 95p/liter = $7.20/gallon.

[irishgrl]

Why in the hell do you make this jump that we earn twice as much????? That's what you've missed!!!
because for every dollar WE earn, you earn 2. your Pound is worth $2 dollars. regardless of what you each bring home, your money is still twice as valuable as ours.

[irishgrl]

a couple posts up i posted that wiki article about median household income. according to that table, the MHI in the US in 2006 was $46,000 whereas in the UK in 2005 (i'm guessing that was the most recently available data) was $39,000. so they don't make twice as much as we do.
was that $39,000 in POUNDS, EUROS, or DOLLARS????

[irishgrl]

a couple posts up i posted that wiki article about median household income. according to that table, the MHI in the US in 2006 was $46,000 whereas in the UK in 2005 (i'm guessing that was the most recently available data) was $39,000. so they don't make twice as much as we do.
are the figures in US Dollars? or British Pounds?

[mikeschmike]

ok, but someone please tell me if their Pound is worth twice as much as our dollar, how is that significantly different in terms of net cost? If they earn twice as much and pay twice as much then it looks like its about the same net cost between us. If I've missed something, please let me know.

I think the problem is that you're automatically assuming since the Euro/pound is stronger, then they must certainly earn more then we do. I really doubt that the pay ratio is the same in the UK as it is here. Plus, in one of the articles you posted it shows how terribly high the gas taxes are in the UK as opposed to here. Trust me, it's not even.

[markolas]

I was going to reply to the original post, but after reading the rest of the thread, apparently I should just go shoot myself in the ear, being a dirty American, and all.

[bretonbanquet]

because for every dollar WE earn, you earn 2. your Pound is worth $2 dollars. regardless of what you each bring home, your money is still twice as valuable as ours.

See, that's where your argument falls down. The relative monetary value of the currencies is totally unrelated to our respective household incomes.. it's a complete non-sequitur :shrug:

[carrie721]

was that $39,000 in POUNDS, EUROS, or DOLLARS????

dollars - did you look at the table? it's pretty clear. that's why i used the "$" sign.

[carrie721]

I was going to reply to the original post, but after reading the rest of the thread, apparently I should just go shoot myself in the ear, being a dirty American, and all.

wtf? :shrug:

no one's saying anything bad about americans. in fact, i think the majority of us in this thread are americans.

[irishgrl]

I think the problem is that you're automatically assuming since the Euro/pound is stronger, then they must certainly earn more then we do. I really doubt that the pay ratio is the same in the UK as it is here. Plus, in one of the articles you posted it shows how terribly high the gas taxes are in the UK as opposed to here. Trust me, it's not even.
Europe may very well pay more for gas. Why??? I dont know. but I think its a basic mistake to compare two different contries with two different monetary systems and act like one country is worse off than another based on COST. (or WAGES)
Thats just WRONG.

[irishgrl]

See, that's where your argument falls down. The relative monetary value of the currencies is totally unrelated to our respective household incomes.. it's a complete non-sequitur :shrug:
um no, it is in fact the backbone of this argument. You cant talk about household COSTS without talking about household INCOMES. ESPECIALLY if you live in different countries. you HAVE to consider different value systems

[bretonbanquet]

Europe may very well pay more for gas. Why??? I dont know. but I think its a basic mistake to compare two different contries with two different monetary systems and act like one country is worse off than another based on COST. (or WAGES)
Thats just WRONG.

My feeling is that you're just wrong :)

And Markolas, I didn't see anyone calling Americans dirty :shrug:

[mikeschmike]

wtf? :shrug:

no one's saying anything bad about americans. in fact, i think the majority of us in this thread are americans.

Although given the logic already expressed in this thread I'm embarrassed to admit my American citizenship.

Maybe I'll pull a Ben Folds and become a citizen of Australia. What's the exchange rate over there? I could be in for a BIG raise. :cool:

[bretonbanquet]

um no, it is in fact the backbone of this argument.

Well, marvellous. As far as I'm concerned, the argument is over, because you never began to understand it :shrug:

[irishgrl]

My feeling is that you're just wrong :)

And Markolas, I didn't see anyone calling Americans dirty :shrug:
you're basic feeling is just numb.

[bretonbanquet]

you're basic feeling is just numb.

Translation, please :)

[michelle2677]

um no, it is in fact the backbone of this argument. You cant talk about household COSTS without talking about household INCOMES. ESPECIALLY if you live in different countries. you HAVE to consider different value systems

ok.. let's try to start from the beginning. completely forget about gas prices :)

where is your information coming from that they make twice as much over there??

(other than the fact their currency is worth twice as much as ours :) )

[Stew_Matthews]

because for every dollar WE earn, you earn 2. your Pound is worth $2 dollars. regardless of what you each bring home, your money is still twice as valuable as ours.


…..for ****’s sake the pound isn’t worth twice as much as the dollar - it’s just that you get two dollars for every pound when exchanged. Have you had an education?

….as Mike said it is the tax that’s the issue………

It is fact that with the exception of Japan, it is the UK citizen that pays the most for petrol (gas).

It is fact that wholesale gas prices (that’s the amount that petrol stations pay) are higher in the US than the UK. The UK applies tax in excess of 67% to the wholesale petrol price which pushes up the pump price. The US has a more modest tax rate.

…………in terms of the production cost (my interest)………..my firm sells oil at 3 cents a gallon………..and the profit on that is 2 cents…………it then needs refining etc and shipping etc

…..anyway I only logged into the net to find out whether QPR won…………oh and the Orient!

See you soon.

Stew

[irishgrl]

Translation, please :)
heck, look it up in a conversion table.

[carrie721]

but back to the original topic ... mary, you still haven't addressed the issue of median household income. if you compare the MHI of the US and the UK, you'll see that people in the UK do not, in fact, make twice as much as we do.

[irishgrl]

ok.. let's try to start from the beginning. completely forget about gas prices :)

where is your information coming from that they make twice as much over there??

(other than the fact their currency is worth twice as much as ours :) )
I never said they EARNED twice as much, I pointed out that their money was twice as valuable. so they earn $4/hr? it equals $8/hr over here.

[michelle2677]

I never said they EARNED twice as much, I pointed out that their money was twice as valuable. so they earn $4/hr? it equals $8/hr over here.

but if you are putting them equal (4 and 8) they don't make 8 over there.

just because it equals twice as much doesn't mean they MAKE that much.

according to carries info, they actually make less.

so if we earn 4 over here, they may earn 6. ( 3 dollars an hour here, but multiplied by 2=6)

[irishgrl]

…..for ****’s sake the pound isn’t worth twice as much as the dollar - it’s just that you get two dollars for every pound when exchanged. Have you had an education?

….as Mike said it is the tax that’s the issue………

It is fact that with the exception of Japan, it is the UK citizen that pays the most for petrol (gas).

It is fact that wholesale gas prices (that’s the amount that petrol stations pay) are higher in the US than the UK. The UK applies tax in excess of 67% to the wholesale petrol price which pushes up the pump price. The US has a more modest tax rate.

…………in terms of the production cost (my interest)………..my firm sells oil at 3 cents a gallon………..and the profit on that is 2 cents…………it then needs refining etc and shipping etc

…..anyway I only logged into the net to find out whether QPR won…………oh and the Orient!

See you soon.

Stew
perhaps they do. but without hard evidence of this "tax" you speak of, its hard to believe...

[michelle2677]

and to add to that..if they are making $3 american (but 6 UK) and their gas is $7.20....do you see how it doesn't equal out??

[irishgrl]

but if you are putting them equal (4 and 8) they don't make 8 over there.

just because it equals twice as much doesn't mean they MAKE that much.

according to carries info, they actually make less.

so if we earn 4 over here, they may earn 6. ( 3 dollars an hour here, but multiplied by 2=6)
in any event, they have more dollars (just a TERM people) than we do. I find it really hard to feel bad for what they pay at the pump when I know we in CA pay (probably) just as much.

[bretonbanquet]

I never said they EARNED twice as much, I pointed out that their money was twice as valuable. so they earn $4/hr? it equals $8/hr over here.

Would you like to be our Chancellor of the Exchequer?

[irishgrl]

and to add to that..if they are making $3 american (but 6 UK) and their gas is $7.20....do you see how it doesn't equal out??
no, because with your numbers, they'd be operating at a deficit, and no one can live that way for very long.

[michelle2677]

in any event, they have more dollars (just a TERM people) than we do. I find it really hard to feel bad for what they pay at the pump when I know we in CA pay (probably) just as much.

but you don't pay just as much. they pay $7.20 and we pay $3.00

since everything is the same (we are converting everything to dollars and using your 4/8 dollar and hour ratio) they make 3 and we make 4. that is not equal. not even close. they are worse off than us.

[bretonbanquet]

in any event, they have more dollars (just a TERM people) than we do. I find it really hard to feel bad for what they pay at the pump when I know we in CA pay (probably) just as much.

You find it hard to feel bad cos you're too busy being wrong :shrug:

[carrie721]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v364/queequeg721/mhi.jpg

[mikeschmike]

perhaps they do. but without hard evidence of this "tax" you speak of, its hard to believe...

from the article you posted:

In Britain, the government takes 75 percent, and raises taxes by 5 percent above inflation every year (though it has forgone this year's rise in view of rocketing oil prices, and the French government has promised tax rebates this year to taxi drivers, truckers, fishermen, and others who depend heavily on gasoline.) On August 8, for example, the price of gas in the US, without taxes, would be $2.17, instead of $2.56; in Britain, it would be $1.97, instead of $6.06.

[michelle2677]

no, because with your numbers, they'd be operating at a deficit, and no one can live that way for very long.

:laugh: it was hypothetical. I was using your numbers.

[Rickypt]

I never said they EARNED twice as much, I pointed out that their money was twice as valuable.

Oh my god, there must have been booze at that fair! I can't believe you are really trying to argue this point. :laugh:

[irishgrl]

but you don't pay just as much. they pay $7.20 and we pay $3.00

since everything is the same (we are converting everything to dollars and using your 4/8 dollar and hour ratio) they make 3 and we make 4. that is not equal. not even close. they are worse off than us.
so if they earn $8 and pay $4, is it worse than us earning $6 and paying $3?

no.

[foxyluva]

Oh my god, there must have been booze at that fair! I can't believe you are really trying to argue this point. :laugh:

Thats what I am thinking - has she actually read everything she has posted? :laugh:

[irishgrl]

:laugh: it was hypothetical. I was using your numbers.
my numbers? I dont think so...

[Stew_Matthews]

perhaps they do. but without hard evidence of this "tax" you speak of, its hard to believe...

.........I couldn't have said it any simpler, you're a bit too obtuse for me.............

BB - 2 losses :( but Leeds down. :laugh: .....

[bretonbanquet]

Another thing.. Irishgrl, you said your car gives 15mpg.. I mean no-one could possibly afford to drive that here. No way. That car would be worthless because no-one would ever want it. People here puff out their cheeks at 30mpg because it's considered uneconomical. This is because our fuel is much more expensive than yours. Or do you think that we're making a fuss about nothing?

[irishgrl]

Thats what I am thinking - has she actually read everything she has posted? :laugh:
Yes, not only do I READ everything I post, I actually double check for other info.

what the hell is wrong with you people???

[carrie721]

oh, did i mention?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v364/queequeg721/mhi.jpg

[irishgrl]

Another thing.. Irishgrl, you said your car gives 15mpg.. I mean no-one could possibly afford to drive that here. No way. That car would be worthless because no-one would ever want it. People here puff out their cheeks at 30mpg because it's considered uneconomical. This is because our fuel is much more expensive than yours. Or do you think that we're making a fuss about nothing?
Agreed. I need to get a new car, the only reason I keep it is because its a 4-wheel drive, which I need in the winter.

[bretonbanquet]

.........I couldn't have said it any simpler, you're a bit too obtuse for me.............

BB - 2 losses :( but Leeds down. :laugh: .....

:laugh:

And yes!! Leeds down - there'll be dancing in the streets :D The O's are safe though, so I'm happy even though they lost :)

[michelle2677]

my numbers? I dont think so...

I never said they EARNED twice as much, I pointed out that their money was twice as valuable. so they earn $4/hr? it equals $8/hr over here.


wanna reconsider that?

[irishgrl]

oh, did i mention?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v364/queequeg721/mhi.jpg
interesting. according to your chart, CA is up there with Switzerland....hmmm

[bretonbanquet]

Yes, not only do I READ everything I post, I actually double check for other info.

what the hell is wrong with you people???

ALL of us?? Hasn't it crossed your mind that we ALL may be right, and you, just this once, this single solitary time, are ...... wrong ?

[foxyluva]

oh, did i mention?


Mary is obviously above reasoning, Carrie...

[michelle2677]

interesting. according to your chart, CA is up there with Switzerland....hmmm

yes. it is.

but what is even more interesting is the fact that CA makes 15 grand more than the UK :laugh:

[DrummerDeanna]

ALL of us?? Hasn't it crossed your mind that we ALL may be right, and you, just this once, this single solitary time, are ...... wrong ?

No, because you're all sharing, oh excuse me, WE'RE all sharing one brain as some big Ledge gang. Did you not get the memo?

You are all making a lot of sense, out of something that was common sense to begin with. So I'm thinking it may be a lost cause :shrug:

This thread is giving me gas. Luckily MINE is free :p

[carrie721]

interesting. according to your chart, CA is up there with Switzerland....hmmm

yeah, apparently. did you see the part about the UK making less per year than the US?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v364/queequeg721/mhi.jpg

[irishgrl]

wanna reconsider that?
yes. I goofed $8/hr in Europe = $4/hr here silly me.

[carrie721]

did i mention that people in the UK don't make twice what we do? i only harp on this because it's kind of the crux of the argument.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v364/queequeg721/mhi.jpg

[irishgrl]

Mary is obviously above reasoning, Carrie...
yes. Im sure I am. As usual. My apologies.

[michelle2677]

yes. I goofed $8/hr in Europe = $4/hr here silly me.

exactly. my equations are still correct.


I do get that it's difficult when everyone is coming at you telling you you're wrong. but. you are. :laugh: i don't mean that mean..but I'm trying to figure out a way to explain it to you and I'm at a loss.

[irishgrl]

did i mention that people in the UK don't make twice what we do? i only harp on this because it's kind of the crux of the argument.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v364/queequeg721/mhi.jpg
actually it ISNT. what I said was: the Pound is worth twice as much as the dollar. of course, if you believe Mikeschmike, (and why wouldnt you, he's so well informed) the exchange rate is apparently something different than what we are discussing here.

but: dont let that stop any of you: please, continue to poke fun as you always do.

[carrie721]

actually it ISNT. what I said was: the Pound is worth twice as much as the dollar. of course, if you believe Mikeschmike, (and why wouldnt you, he's so well informed) the exchange rate is apparently something different than what we are discussing here.

but: dont let that stop any of you: please, continue to poke fun as you always do.

according to you it is - you've been saying that b/c of the exchange rate, they make twice as much as we do. but that isn't so. :shrug:

[irishgrl]

according to you it is - you've been saying that b/c of the exchange rate, they make twice as much as we do. but that isn't so. :shrug:
no, i NEVER said that. What I said was: their MONEY IS TWICE AS VALUABLE.

that has nothing to do with what anyone MAKES. PAY ATTENTION.

[michelle2677]

actually it ISNT. what I said was: the Pound is worth twice as much as the dollar. of course, if you believe Mikeschmike, (and why wouldnt you, he's so well informed) the exchange rate is apparently something different than what we are discussing here.

but: dont let that stop any of you: please, continue to poke fun as you always do.



I have SERIOUSLY NOT been poking fun. I have been trying to explain it as simply as i can because it took me awhile to get it too. I'm just wanting you to explain to me why you think they make twice as much so we can go from there and get it resolved.


this reminds me of my friend lol. he always said it didnt' matter how much gas costs because he's going to put $20 bucks in regardless. it took us forever to get him to realize....."if gas costs less....then you get MORE!!!" "but...i'm still only going to put $20 in" "I know...but if gas costs less, it will be longer before you put another $20 in" lol aaaaahhh..then he "got it"

it's hard when you have a certain mindset and arent' thinking about it in a different way. so that's why I've been trying to breaking it down.

[michelle2677]

no, i NEVER said that. What I said was: their MONEY IS TWICE AS VALUABLE.

that has nothing to do with what anyone MAKES. PAY ATTENTION.

so if their money is twice as valuable, how does that help the person at the gas pump who is paying $7.20??

[irishgrl]

I have SERIOUSLY NOT been poking fun. I have been trying to explain it as simply as i can because it took me awhile to get it too. I'm just wanting you to explain to me why you think they make twice as much so we can go from there and get it resolved.


this reminds me of my friend lol. he always said it didnt' matter how much gas costs because he's going to put $20 bucks in regardless. it took us forever to get him to realize....."if gas costs less....then you get MORE!!!" "but...i'm still only going to put $20 in" "I know...but if gas costs less, it will be longer before you put another $20 in" lol aaaaahhh..then he "got it"

it's hard when you have a certain mindset and arent' thinking about it in a different way. so that's why I've been trying to breaking it down.
again, please pay ATTENTION: NO ONE EVER SAID THEY MADE TWICE AS MUCH. What I said was: their money was twice as valuable, and any straight across comparison was WRONG.

[irishgrl]

so if their money is twice as valuable, how does that help the person at the gas pump who is paying $7.20??
it doesnt. what Im saying is, if they pay $7.20, and I in CA pay $3.50 or more, we are basically comparable. thats all. that doesnt make it right by any means. I think it stinks....

[carrie721]

no, i NEVER said that. What I said was: their MONEY IS TWICE AS VALUABLE.

that has nothing to do with what anyone MAKES. PAY ATTENTION.

i'm not the one who's not paying attention:

If they earn twice as much and pay twice as much then it looks like its about the same net cost between us. If I've missed something, please let me know.

you said it :shrug:

[bretonbanquet]

it doesnt. what Im saying is, if they pay $7.20, and I in CA pay $3.50 or more, we are basically comparable. thats all. that doesnt make it right by any means. I think it stinks....

If that's really what you think after all this discussion, then there's nothing more to be said... you'll never understand it.

The other point that was well made is that here it's our government who fleece us, and over there in the US it's the oil companies.

[carrie721]

it doesnt. what Im saying is, if they pay $7.20, and I in CA pay $3.50 or more, we are basically comparable. thats all. that doesnt make it right by any means. I think it stinks....

no, it's not comparable. they don't make $2 for every $1 we make. that would mean that their wages would have to be exactly the same in pounds as ours are in dollars, and they're not.

[michelle2677]

it doesnt. what Im saying is, if they pay $7.20, and I in CA pay $3.50 or more, we are basically comparable. thats all. that doesnt make it right by any means. I think it stinks....



yes, it's not right. it DOES stink. but I'm getting confused on why you think it's comparable.

[irishgrl]

i'm not the one who's not paying attention:



you said it :shrug:
ok then, if all my clarifications dont fix it for you let me make it CLEAR: BECAUSE their money is twice as valuable as ours, they by extention earn twice as much as we d

[michelle2677]

ok then, if all my clarifications dont fix it for you let me make it CLEAR: BECAUSE their money is twice as valuable as ours, they by extention earn twice as much as we d


OH MY ****ING GOD.

so WHAT are you not understanding??? please tell me which part you are not agreeing with.


i cannot accept defeat.


and the defeat would be-not getting you to understand.

[mikeschmike]

actually it ISNT. what I said was: the Pound is worth twice as much as the dollar. of course, if you believe Mikeschmike, (and why wouldnt you, he's so well informed) the exchange rate is apparently something different than what we are discussing here.

but: dont let that stop any of you: please, continue to poke fun as you always do.

Oh for ****'s sake...

I don't the time or the desire to keep beating this dead horse.

[irishgrl]

If that's really what you think after all this discussion, then there's nothing more to be said... you'll never understand it.

The other point that was well made is that here it's our government who fleece us, and over there in the US it's the oil companies.
well, as to your latter point, I definitely agree: the oil companies are fleecing us and they need to be held accountable.

[carrie721]

ok then, if all my clarifications dont fix it for you let me make it CLEAR: BECAUSE their money is twice as valuable as ours, they by extention earn twice as much as we d

i am literally at a loss. their pounds are worth more but they make fewer pounds than we make in dollars.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v364/queequeg721/mhi.jpg

[michelle2677]

Oh for ****'s sake...

I don't the time or the desire to keep beating this dead horse.


the dead horsemanity :distress:

[bretonbanquet]

ok then, if all my clarifications dont fix it for you let me make it CLEAR: BECAUSE their money is twice as valuable as ours, they by extention earn twice as much as we d

This wins the prize for the most ludicrous, warped, and thoroughly inaccurate statement I've ever seen on the internet :)

[irishgrl]

ok: please someone, tell me how a monetary system that is twice as valuable as ours, but pays twice as much as ours actually translates into something more punitive than what we deal with? from everything Ive seen it evens out. sorry.

[Stew_Matthews]

This wins the prize for the most ludicrous, warped, and thoroughly inaccurate statement I've ever seen on the internet :)



...for god's sake don't tell her that planet earth is round ....you'll be here for weeks!!!!:D

[danax6]

Okay, I want the last 15 minutes I spent reading this thread back. :cool:

Mary, seriously, you've gone off the deep end here babe. It all comes down to simple math. If you calculate all the different currencies back to one single currency and then see how much gas people can buy based on their yearly income it's NOT hard to reach the conclusion that people in the UK can buy a lot LESS. I don't get what's so hard to understand about that.

(Oh, and many people have already researched the differences between median household incomes and really, Europe averages below the United States.)

:)
Vanessa 'pays way too freakin' much for gas also' G.

[bretonbanquet]

ok: please someone, tell me how a monetary system that is twice as valuable as ours, but pays twice as much as ours actually translates into something more punitive than what we deal with? from everything Ive seen it evens out. sorry.

If someone earns $40,000 a year for doing a certain job in the US, do you think that people here earn £40,000 for the same job?

[irishgrl]

Okay, I want the last 15 minutes I spent reading this thread back. :cool:

Mary, seriously, you've gone off the deep end here babe. It all comes down to simple math. If you calculate all the different currencies back to one single currency and then see how much gas people can buy based on their yearly income it's NOT hard to reach the conclusion that people in the UK can buy a lot LESS. I don't get what's so hard to understand about that.

(Oh, and many people have already researched the differences between median household incomes and really, Europe averages below the United States.)

:)
Vanessa 'pays way too freakin' much for gas also' G.
I never said Europe didnt pay exorbitant gas prices. but I dont think you can actually compare dollars to Euros or Pounds and then act like the price at the pump per Pound versus the price at the pump per Dollar is all that different.

[irishgrl]

If someone earns $40,000 a year for doing a certain job in the US, do you think that people here earn £40,000 for the same job?
You guys are comparing WAGES and I am NOT. I am saying the price at the pump is NOT the same, if you take into account the difference between dollars and pounds.

[carrie721]

I never said Europe didnt pay exorbitant gas prices. but I dont think you can actually compare dollars to Euros or Pounds and then act like the price at the pump per Pound versus the price at the pump per Dollar is all that different.

nobody's doing that - we've helpfully converted all comparisons into US dollars for you :shrug:

[bretonbanquet]

You guys are comparing WAGES and I am NOT. I am saying the price at the pump is NOT the same, if you take into account the difference between dollars and pounds.

We've noticed. If you refuse to compare wages, what the hell do you think we over here are buying our fuel WITH?

[michelle2677]

o.k. just like jazzy couldn't accept defeat when I couldn't get my desktop on the thread...(which I never did LOL) i can't let this go.



alright.


let's say..for the sake of argument (HA) and for the sake of...EASE....


we are switching EVERYONE'S currency to dollars.


o.k.. so. The great people in the UK get to switch their pounds to dollars. you make $10 dollars an hour. Bretonbanquet makes 16 pounds an hour for the same exact job. so when he switches his currency to dollars, he only gets 8 :( poor thing.

anyway. So. you're making 10. he's making 8. all currency is the same . are you with me? we've already converted it.

SO NOW. we pay 3 dollars a gallon for gas. and they still pay 7.20. but you're making ten and he's making 8.



Is this making any sense? is there any part of this you don't get or don't agree with?

[irishgrl]

nobody's doing that - we've helpfully converted all comparisons into US dollars for you :shrug:
ok. thank you.. I was wrong. let the celebration commence.

[carrie721]

ok. thank you.. I was wrong. let the celebration commence.

i don't want to celebrate, i just wanted you to get it :shrug:

[irishgrl]

o.k. just like jazzy couldn't accept defeat when I couldn't get my desktop on the thread...(which I never did LOL) i can't let this go.



alright.


let's say..for the sake of argument (HA) and for the sake of...EASE....


we are switching EVERYONE'S currency to dollars.


o.k.. so. The great people in the UK get to switch their pounds to dollars. you make $10 dollars an hour. Bretonbanquet makes 16 pounds an hour for the same exact job. so when he switches his currency to dollars, he only gets 8 :( poor thing.

anyway. So. you're making 10. he's making 8. all currency is the same . are you with me? we've already converted it.

SO NOW. we pay 3 dollars a gallon for gas. and they still pay 7.20. but you're making ten and he's making 8.



Is this making any sense? is there any part of this you don't get or don't agree with?
I appreciate your approach. it did help. Thank you.

[mikeschmike]

We've noticed. If you refuse to compare wages, what the hell do you think we over here are buying our fuel WITH?
:shrug:
http://www.aussiefavourites.com.au/cornershop/images/arn_breton.jpg

right?

[danax6]

o.k. just like jazzy couldn't accept defeat when I couldn't get my desktop on the thread...(which I never did LOL) i can't let this go.



alright.


let's say..for the sake of argument (HA) and for the sake of...EASE....


we are switching EVERYONE'S currency to dollars.


o.k.. so. The great people in the UK get to switch their pounds to dollars. you make $10 dollars an hour. Bretonbanquet makes 16 pounds an hour for the same exact job. so when he switches his currency to dollars, he only gets 8 :( poor thing.

anyway. So. you're making 10. he's making 8. all currency is the same . are you with me? we've already converted it.

SO NOW. we pay 3 dollars a gallon for gas. and they still pay 7.20. but you're making ten and he's making 8.



Is this making any sense? is there any part of this you don't get or don't agree with?Ok, hate to break it you, but 16 pounds is actually 32 dollars. :p

Here's an easier way to look at it. Mr. America makes 10 dollars an hour, Mr. Brit also makes 10 dollars an hour, which is 5 pounds. Mr. America (10 /3) can buy 3.3 gallons of gas with his 10 dollars, Mr. Brit (5 / 3.6) can't even buy 2 gallons of gas.

[bretonbanquet]

:shrug:
http://www.aussiefavourites.com.au/cornershop/images/arn_breton.jpg

right?

Those things are each worth a tank of gas :D :laugh:

[irishgrl]

Michelle, I appreciate your persistence:

let me see if I understand:

if a person earns $4/hr (here or there) and yet has to pay $7/hr over there, but only $3/hr for gas here, then yeah, that stinks.

If I got it right, then, I think I'd be overthrowing the Government in Europe. its bad enuff here the way things are....but Im still steaming mad that Chevron is reporting 18% increase for the quarter based on gouging consumers at the pump. I think that stinks. too.

[carrie721]

Ok, hate to break it you, but 16 pounds is actually 32 dollars. :p

Here's an easier way to look at it. Mr. America makes 10 dollars an hour, Mr. Brit also makes 10 dollars an hour, which is 5 pounds. Mr. America (10 /3) can buy 3.3 gallons of gas with his 10 dollars, Mr. Brit (5 / 3.6) can't even buy 2 gallons of gas.

+10 points for vanessa. good analogy.

[michelle2677]

Ok, hate to break it you, but 16 pounds is actually 32 dollars. :p

Here's an easier way to look at it. Mr. America makes 10 dollars an hour, Mr. Brit also makes 10 dollars an hour, which is 5 pounds. Mr. America (10 /3) can buy 3.3 gallons of gas with his 10 dollars, Mr. Brit (5 / 3.6) can't even buy 2 gallons of gas.

well **** LOL


It was right in my head...hahahhaha :lol:

[DavidMn]

considering that Chevron Oil, the biggest supplier of Oil for America, just posted an 18% profit increase for the first quarter--based SOLELY on gouging the American public, I think Ethan's outrage is well-placed.

We cant compare our gas prices with other countries (sorry Canada and Britain)
because their monetary systems are different than ours. like twice as much. pretty hard to make a fair comparison


ETA: California is paying the highest prices in the Nation. Well over $3/gallon.I wonder what Hawaii's is at these days?

[irishgrl]

Ok, hate to break it you, but 16 pounds is actually 32 dollars. :p

Here's an easier way to look at it. Mr. America makes 10 dollars an hour, Mr. Brit also makes 10 dollars an hour, which is 5 pounds. Mr. America (10 /3) can buy 3.3 gallons of gas with his 10 dollars, Mr. Brit (5 / 3.6) can't even buy 2 gallons of gas.
michelle clarified. although. you did too. thank you Vanessa.

[mikeschmike]

Those things are each worth a tank of gas :D :laugh:

Well you've got us beat on that one.

God save the crackers!

[bretonbanquet]

Well you've got us beat on that one.

God save the crackers!

Our crackers are worth twice what yours are :laugh:

[michelle2677]

Michelle, I appreciate your persistence:

let me see if I understand:

if a person earns $4/hr (here or there) and yet has to pay $7/hr over there, but only $3/hr for gas here, then yeah, that stinks.

If I got it right, then, I think I'd be overthrowing the Government in Europe. its bad enuff here the way things are....but Im still steaming mad that Chevron is reporting 18% increase for the quarter based on gouging consumers at the pump. I think that stinks. too.
yes, but as my pm said-they even make less than us...but pay twice as much :(


and I'm done with the math **** LOL obviously I can't keep it straight either..hhahah:o

[michelle2677]

alright. so LOL


I think my gas here is 2. 73 a gallon'

that's for 87 btw :laugh:

[danax6]

and I'm done with the math **** LOL obviously I can't keep it straight either..hhahah:oI kinda surprised myself there, considering it's 4.12 am here and I've just spent the better part of my Saturday night, uhm, drinking. :laugh:

[carrie721]

alright. so LOL


I think my gas here is 2. 73 a gallon'

that's for 87 btw :laugh:

i'm moving to henderson. it's $2.99 here :laugh:

my 96 saturn (when it wants to) gets 30+ mpg, usually around 360 miles for a tank. that lasts me ... a very long time. :laugh:

[DrummerDeanna]

^^

Well y'all did a bang up job of explaining things, because though I understood in my head there's no way I could articulate it :laugh: :laugh: Math and Deanna do NOT mix, which is why I'm in radio and not accounting ;)

Gas here is 2.80-something I believe...but I haven't filled up in a while....luckily my car is quite good on gas...

[carrie721]

^^

Well y'all did a bang up job of explaining things, because though I understood in my head there's no way I could articulate it :laugh: :laugh: Math and Deanna do NOT mix, which is why I'm in radio and not accounting ;)

Gas here is 2.80-something I believe...but I haven't filled up in a while....luckily my car is quite good on gas...

i forget, what do you drive?

[michelle2677]

i'm moving to henderson. it's $2.99 here :laugh:

my 96 saturn (when it wants to) gets 30+ mpg, usually around 360 miles for a tank. that lasts me ... a very long time. :laugh:


move here and be a dental assistant..with meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :blob2: :blob2: I could get you a job. I know a good dentist, and we have better roo poo :laugh:


anyway-I have a v6 and get about 18 city/25 hwy. I fill up about every 1 1/2 -2 weeks. which is pretty ****ty, cuz when I had my camry I could go 3 weeks without filling up.

you have to understand I live in a VERY small town. no traffic to deal with and it takes me 7 minutes to get to work :)

[carrie721]

move here and be a dental assistant..with meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :blob2: :blob2: I could get you a job. I know a good dentist, and we have better roo poo :laugh:


anyway-I have a v6 and get about 18 city/25 hwy. I fill up about every 1 1/2 -2 weeks. which is pretty ****ty, cuz when I had my camry I could go 3 weeks without filling up.

you have to understand I live in a VERY small town. no traffic to deal with and it takes me 7 minutes to get to work :)

kentucky, here i come!

where i used to work, it would take me 3 minutes to get to work. so i usually just walked. :laugh:

[michelle2677]

kentucky, here i come!

where i used to work, it would take me 3 minutes to get to work. so i usually just walked. :laugh:

now is that 3 minutes walking, or 3 minutes driving?? :lol:

[DrummerDeanna]

i forget, what do you drive?

I have a Toyota Corolla :D I love and adore it, though lately I'm thinking I should have gone with the Prius...

[irishgrl]

I drive 40 minutes one way (approx 30 miles one way, I go a bit fast lol!)

my car gets about 15mpg. or so. I use about 300-350 $$ each month for gas but I also use my gas card for milk/bread/eggs/ etc. I pay about $350 each month but I cant make any headway on my gas credit card bill, which is about $800+........


I still say Chevron, Mobile, Exxon, Shell, etc are ROBBERS. yep.

[carrie721]

now is that 3 minutes walking, or 3 minutes driving?? :lol:

:laugh: 3 minutes driving. about 20 minutes walking. :p

[carrie721]

I have a Toyota Corolla :D I love and adore it, though lately I'm thinking I should have gone with the Prius...

those priuses are cool. and you can get tax breaks if you get one, right? that's pretty sweet.

[DrummerDeanna]

those priuses are cool. and you can get tax breaks if you get one, right? that's pretty sweet.

Yeah, my coworker who has one got a sweet tax break for hers...both from federal and state. And it's a nice little car! We actually just bought one for work too - as our company car...

[irishgrl]

Im seriously thinking about a Toyota for a commuter car...

[irishgrl]

CA gas prices.

link
(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9317029/)

[irishgrl]

What the rest of the world pays......

gas around the world (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12464789/)

ok whats up with this??

United Kingdom $5.94


why is CHINA so LOW????????

[DrummerDeanna]

Im seriously thinking about a Toyota for a commuter car...

You can't beat them. They're extremely economical and they'll last forever if you keep up maintenance. Amazing cars. This is my second Toyota..the first had over 150,000 miles when I gave to a cousin..and it was still kicking.

[bretonbanquet]

What the rest of the world pays......

gas around the world (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12464789/)

ok whats up with this??

United Kingdom $5.94


why is CHINA so LOW????????


Prices vary a lot for gas in the UK, depending where you are and what gas you buy. By far the most common is unleaded.

http://www.petrolprices.com/

Average price this week in the UK for unleaded is 93.8p/l = $7.10/US gallon

Diesel is more expensive again, and LPG is about half the price of unleaded because there's very little tax on it :)

[irishgrl]

Prices vary a lot for gas in the UK, depending where you are and what gas you buy. By far the most common is unleaded.

http://www.petrolprices.com/

Average price this week in the UK for unleaded is 93.8p/l = $7.10/US gallon

Diesel is more expensive again, and LPG is about half the price of unleaded because there's very little tax on it :)
granted, my site was apparently an average...........just like in the US, you cant believe that its only $2.50/gal.........

[Macfanforever]

Will I'm lucky, I walk to work every day, high unleaded here is $3.02 gal.It's going to cost more for the dam gas for my travel expense to the shows this summer then the dam tickets.Ya Corruption, big oil will dictate to the world
what they want.But nobody is stopping them.

[Musicman408]

Will I'm lucky, I walk to work every day, high unleaded here is $3.02 gal.It's going to cost more for the dam gas for my travel expense to the shows this summer then the dam tickets.Ya Corruption, big oil will dictate to the world
what they want.But nobody is stopping them.

And that is what is so frustrating...... I hate Big Oil.:mad:

[danax6]

What the rest of the world pays......

gas around the world (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12464789/)

I wish it was only $6.25. Currently we pay $7.70 per gallon. :distress:

[Musicman408]

I wish it was only $6.25. Currently we pay $7.70 per gallon. :distress:

Dang, I am sorry to hear that. That is A LOT!!

[Mari]

*whispers*

environment? um, err...

[danax6]

*whispers*

environment? um, err...Yes. :nod: I was wondering when someone was going to bring that up. You know, there is one big huge country that still hasn't ratified the Kyoto protocol. :wavey:

[Mari]

The one with the low gas prices and cars that run on huge amounts of gas, you mean?

[danax6]

The one with the low gas prices and cars that run on huge amounts of gas, you mean?That's the one. :cool:

[irishgrl]

Yes. :nod: I was wondering when someone was going to bring that up. You know, there is one big huge country that still hasn't ratified the Kyoto protocol. :wavey:
you can blame the inept leadership for that. Bush doesnt believe in Global Warming.

Fortunately there's a new dynamic in Congress, hopefully we can get back on track.

[gldstwmn]

It cost me $50 and some change to fill my gas tank on Friday. Gas is about $3 a gallon here.

[gldstwmn]

That's just crap :shrug:

Actually it's not. The United States is the second largest purchaser of petroleum, only eclipsed recently by China. The States is a far larger country dependent on driving for getting from point A to point B. We don't have the sophisticated rail system that Europe does. I wish we did. We buy oil in such quantities that we should not be paying these prices. We are most definitely getting gouged.

[gldstwmn]

also: I think it IS significant that the dollar is only worth about HALF of the British Pound Sterling, which (as far as I can tell) makes our basic outlay on either side of the pond about the same. If Europe is paying twice as much but their money is twice as valuable, then effectively we are paying the same.

You are correct, unless they've gone and used the new math again. :lol:

[gldstwmn]

What the rest of the world pays......

gas around the world (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12464789/)

ok whats up with this??

United Kingdom $5.94


why is CHINA so LOW????????

They buy the most oil.

[bretonbanquet]

Actually it's not. The United States is the second largest purchaser of petroleum, only eclipsed recently by China. The States is a far larger country dependent on driving for getting from point A to point B. We don't have the sophisticated rail system that Europe does. I wish we did. We buy oil in such quantities that we should not be paying these prices. We are most definitely getting gouged.

I wasn't referring to that. And our rail system is so expensive that even with our exorbitant gas prices, driving is still much much cheaper than taking a train. Plus there isn't an extensive rail system now anything like the one we used to have years ago.

[danax6]

Actually it's not. The United States is the second largest purchaser of petroleum, only eclipsed recently by China. The States is a far larger country dependent on driving for getting from point A to point B. We don't have the sophisticated rail system that Europe does. I wish we did. We buy oil in such quantities that we should not be paying these prices. We are most definitely getting gouged.Well, we don't have the cheap national flight fares that you guys have. Or an airport in every city.

Train fares here are even more expensive than gas. :shrug:

[Rickypt]

I haven't owned a car since 1989 and haven't had to pay attention to any stories about rising gas prices. I find my life to be very simple; I walk from my apartment 10 blocks to BART, I take BART three stops, and then I walk three blocks to work. $45/month for the MUNI pass that let's me use BART within the city. No car payment, no insurance, no tickets, no stress.

[markolas]

I haven't owned a car since 1989 and haven't had to pay attention to any stories about rising gas prices. I find my life to be very simple; I walk from my apartment 10 blocks to BART, I take BART three stops, and then I walk three blocks to work. $45/month for the MUNI pass that let's me use BART within the city. No car payment, no insurance, no tickets, no stress.

I'd love to be able to take the bus to work, but I live on the opposite side of town. I'd have to leave the house at the ass-crack of dawn, it'd be a two-hour commute, and I'd still be late for work. If gas gets anymore expensive, I'm going to have to look for another job closer to my apartment. Luckily, my car will be paid off this year, so I can get rid of it if I need to.

[Rickypt]

I'd love to be able to take the bus to work, but I live on the opposite side of town. I'd have to leave the house at the ass-crack of dawn, it'd be a two-hour commute, and I'd still be late for work. If gas gets anymore expensive, I'm going to have to look for another job closer to my apartment. Luckily, my car will be paid off this year, so I can get rid of it if I need to.

Yeah, clearly most people aren't able to give up their cars. Public transportation in this country is awful, with a few notable exceptions. There's a great article in a recent New Yorker about long commutes and how, in most cases, jobs aren't located near where people live.

In the Bay Area, many people commute a couple of hours so that they can buy a house or having cheaper living way out in the far suburbs. I wonder, though, how much they are really saving when you add in the price of gas. They certainly aren't enjoying quality of life by sitting in a car for 2-4 hours per day.

[strandinthewind]

I haven't owned a car since 1989 and haven't had to pay attention to any stories about rising gas prices. I find my life to be very simple; I walk from my apartment 10 blocks to BART, I take BART three stops, and then I walk three blocks to work. $45/month for the MUNI pass that let's me use BART within the city. No car payment, no insurance, no tickets, no stress.

No shiitte!!!

I live across the street from a MARTA station and there is a grocery store in my building. I am within a ten block radius of anything I want and I can take the train to most people's houses and, if not, they are a $10-15 cab ride away. I drive MAYBE once a week. When the lease on my car is up, I am so not getting another one. I may, instead, do flexcar (www.flexcar.com) -- they have five cars within two blocks of my house.

[strandinthewind]

. . . In the Bay Area, many people commute a couple of hours so that they can buy a house or having cheaper living way out in the far suburbs. I wonder, though, how much they are really saving when you add in the price of gas.

They are still saving a bundle. If it costs them $500 a month less to live far out and gas is $.50 more a gallon than it ought to be and they buy 80 gallons of gas (four 20 gallon fill ups) a month, they are spending only -- That is only $40 more a month. So, that pretty much is a mostly insignificant increase considering the cheaper rent and that groceries and staples generally are cheaper in the burbs.

That also assumes all the 80 gallons are going for the commute, which likely is untrue -- and a car that gets around 15 MPG -- If you get a car that gets 30 MPG, you'd be better off on that $40.

They certainly aren't enjoying quality of life by sitting in a car for 2-4 hours per day.

I totally agree!!!!

[JazmenFlowers]

I haven't owned a car since 1989 and haven't had to pay attention to any stories about rising gas prices. I find my life to be very simple; I walk from my apartment 10 blocks to BART, I take BART three stops, and then I walk three blocks to work. $45/month for the MUNI pass that let's me use BART within the city. No car payment, no insurance, no tickets, no stress.
god...you are my hero. I would love to be rid of my $600/month car note and $130/month insurance. sigh.

[Rickypt]

They are still saving a bundle. If it costs them $500 a month less to live far out and gas is $.50 more a gallon than it ought to be and they buy 80 gallons of gas (four 20 gallon fill ups) a month, they are spending only -- That is only $40 more a month. So, that pretty much is a mostly insignificant increase considering the cheaper rent and that groceries and staples generally are cheaper in the burbs.

That also assumes all the 80 gallons are going for the commute, which likely is untrue -- and a car that gets around 15 MPG -- If you get a car that gets 30 MPG, you'd be better off on that $40.


I was thinking in terms of being able to get rid of the car completely, but most people aren't going to be able to do that.

The New Yorker article focused quite a bit on Atlanta. Many people living in suburbs south of Atlanta but work north of the city. Their commute is horrendous.

[strandinthewind]

I was thinking in terms of being able to get rid of the car completely, but most people aren't going to be able to do that.

The New Yorker article focused quite a bit on Atlanta. Many people living in suburbs south of Atlanta but work north of the city. Their commute is horrendous.

The suburbs north of Atlanta are horrid. If you leave downtown after 4:00 p.m. or your house after 7:00 a.m., you are looking at a commute that can be two hours to downtown. Fortunately, MARTA just opened a new train station that can serve that area. Sadly, it does not go far enough north and the commute will likely be 30 minutes to the train station and and hour on the train to reach downtown (most likely work downtown). And, if you do not work near the station, the bus system is horrid, if it serves that area at all. MARTA frequently breaks down and is run by what is generally considered to be a gang of fukcing idiots.

Also - did you check out www.flexcar.com

I fugure it costs me $1,000 a month total (gas, ins., pmt, etc.) to have my car. If I had a less expensive car, I could reduce that to maybe $700. I drive about 10 hours a week and that is a large estimate. Flex cars can be rented at about $9.00 an hour, which is $360 a month for 40 hours a month. So, I so going to try that when my lease is up.

[markolas]

god...you are my hero. I would love to be rid of my $600/month car note and $130/month insurance. sigh.

My god, what kind of car do you drive?? My rent isn't even $600 a month!

[skcin]

Wow. Just read the whole thread. There's 10 minutes of my life I'll never get back. I just want to ask - isn't real estate a lot higher over there too? Apartments featured on House Hunters International :laugh: are usually between $250,000 & $500,000 U.S. - and they're really small! You have to take cost of living into account if you're going to argue who's worse off.


Gas is around $2.95 here. Costs me about $40 to fill my little Hyundai SUV up, and if I only go to & from work & on errands locally I can usually stretch a tank out for at least a week. I haven't figured it out in a while, but I think I get close to 18 or 20 mpg. My husband's p.o.s. 4WD truck, however, gets about 7. :rolleyes: He fills up (at least $50) probably 5 or 6 times a month. We're just waiting until I pay my vehicle off so he can dump his & get a newer one - preferably with much better mileage.

Mary - your mileage sounds reeeeaaalllly bad. A car to commute wouldn't be a bad idea. Maybe you could take your 4WD off the road when it's not snowing & put a small car on during that time. :shrug: That's what many people do around here.

[sparky]

My god, what kind of car do you drive??

No ****. If I wanted to pay that I could get that Mercedes G 500 SUV I covet. But with god as my witness, I am never paying car payments again, Scarlett.

[markolas]

No ****. If I wanted to pay that I could get that Mercedes G 500 SUV I covet. But with god as my witness, I am never paying car payments again, Scarlett.

I bought my current car in 2002. It's a 2001 Chevy Cavalier, and had approx. 44,000 miles on it when I bought it. In the five years that I've had it, I have yet to put 44,000 miles on it, so something was screwy right there. But I was stupid back then and didn't know anything about buying cars.

The car was worth about half of what I paid for it when I drove it off the lot. The dealer would not let me talk to my own bank when I tried to get it financed through them. The bank turned me down; the reason the dealer gave me was because I didn't have any "car credit"...what a load of ****. The reason the bank turned me down was because they knew it was worth half of what I was paying for it, and if I ever defaulted on the loan, they'd be out of a hell of a lot of $$$. I ultimately got it financed through Ford Credit at 14% interest. :eek:

To top it all off, after I'd signed all the papers, I immediately felt like I'd made a mistake, and told the dealer so. His response (and I quote): "We all make mistakes in life." :mad: There's actually more to the story (that involves my mother, and the reason why this scumbag was so eager to make the sale, and it's one of the many reasons why I don't currently speak to my mother), but my blood pressure is already too high just from telling this much of the story.

So, yeah. I've always told myself that I would never get another car financed as long as I live.

[JazmenFlowers]

I have a loaded Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 with special leather package. it was stupid on my part to pay that much money for a Jeep cause I keep thinking I could be driving a Mercedes. I'm looking to get rid of it and pay off some other bills and I think I have a buyer.

[sparky]

I bought my current car in 2002. It's a 2001 Chevy Cavalier, and had approx. 44,000 miles on it when I bought it. In the five years that I've had it, I have yet to put 44,000 miles on it, so something was screwy right there. But I was stupid back then and didn't know anything about buying cars.

The car was worth about half of what I paid for it when I drove it off the lot. The dealer would not let me talk to my own bank when I tried to get it financed through them. The bank turned me down; the reason the dealer gave me was because I didn't have any "car credit"...what a load of ****. The reason the bank turned me down was because they knew it was worth half of what I was paying for it, and if I ever defaulted on the loan, they'd be out of a hell of a lot of $$$. I ultimately got it financed through Ford Credit at 14% interest. :eek:

To top it all off, after I'd signed all the papers, I immediately felt like I'd made a mistake, and told the dealer so. His response (and I quote): "We all make mistakes in life." :mad: There's actually more to the story (that involves my mother, and the reason why this scumbag was so eager to make the sale, and it's one of the many reasons why I don't currently speak to my mother), but my blood pressure is already too high just from telling this much of the story.

So, yeah. I've always told myself that I would never get another car financed as long as I live.



OMg, What a horror story. There isn't a good thing about that situation.

Thankfully my brother was a car hound, and taught me how to buy.

Last truck I bought, I bluebooked it first. Then I went shopping two days before Christmas. Not only end of the month, but salesmen were hard up for holiday cash. Then I only went to non Ford lots. No one wants a Ford on their Toyota lot - no one comes there looking for them. Since I won't buy new, I have no problem with getting a trade in on the wrong lot.
Finally, I didn't let them know I needed the vehicle. I gave them 15 minutes to take my offer, and actually left twice. At 6pm on 12/23:lol:

Next time, I am taking a checkbook, and that will give me an even bigger advantage. To hell with those nasty loans. Granted my last one was 7% but I still resented it.

[sparky]

I have a loaded Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 with special leather package.

Oh, man. That is a sexy ride. What color?

Lemme guess, red.

[JazmenFlowers]

Oh, man. That is a sexy ride. What color?

Lemme guess, red.
:lol:

black with tan/gray leather interior.

[sparky]

:lol:

black with tan/gray leather interior.

Damn, that was my second guess.

[carrie721]

:lol:

black with tan/gray leather interior.

were they out of barney purple? :D

[JazmenFlowers]

were they out of barney purple? :D
yep. :(

next time biotches. next time.

[carrie721]

yep. :(

next time biotches. next time.

i'm so disappointed!

i drive a saturn. his name is eazy e b/c he's black and fabulous. and dying of aids.

[strandinthewind]

No ****. If I wanted to pay that I could get that Mercedes G 500 SUV I covet. But with god as my witness, I am never paying car payments again, Scarlett.

Car payments suck. I like to have a new car every three or four years - so, I have leased almost all my cars. But, now that I hardly drive once a week anymore, I am seriously thinking about either buying a less than $10,000 new used car or doing the flexcar thing. It really is a liberating thing and a boon is I HATE to drive.

[JazmenFlowers]

i'm so disappointed!

i drive a saturn. his name is eazy e b/c he's black and fabulous. and dying of aids.
will you play Gimme That Nut at his funeral?

[strandinthewind]

:lol:

black with tan/gray leather interior.

You were so happy when you got it though -- I remember you started a thread. But, I learned my lesson with my current one, which is a little more than your's LOL -- NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[carrie721]

will you play Gimme That Nut at his funeral?

that and "just don't bite it."

[JazmenFlowers]

You were so happy when you got it though -- I remember you started a thread. But, I learned my lesson with my current one, which is a little more than your's LOL -- NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know. (I can't believe you remember that!)

and I still love it. it's just hindering me from being where I want to be financially and I'm not in love with it. it's not you, it's me. oh...wait...

[strandinthewind]

I know. (I can't believe you remember that!)

and I still love it. it's just hindering me from being where I want to be financially and I'm not in love with it. it's not you, it's me. oh...wait...

LOL -- use that "not you but me" get out of the relationship line with the finance company :laugh:

In the end, I have figured out that cars can be realy cool - my ex has a 2007 500 SL AMG -- which is fab -- but it does not make one any happier. I don't know, I guess I am 40 and letting go of all those material things I once held in high esteem - then again, it may just be menopause :wavey:

[carrie721]

LOL -- use that "not you but me" get out of the relationship line with the finance company :laugh:

In the end, I have figured out that cars can be realy cool - my ex has a 2007 500 SL AMG -- which is fab -- but it does not make one any happier. I don't know, I guess I am 40 and letting go of all those material things I once held in high esteem - then again, it may just be menopause :wavey:

plus it's just not as fun to drive around with a lawn jocky in that, is it? :D

[strandinthewind]

plus it's just not as fun to drive around with a lawn jocky in that, is it? :D

I gotta find that lawn jockey!!!!!

Actually, my black neighbor bought one too. So, maybe the next time I am in NOLA, I can borrow his. I think, though, he keeps his in his bedroom -- don't ask :laugh:

[carrie721]

I gotta find that lawn jockey!!!!!

Actually, my black neighbor bought one too. So, maybe the next time I am in NOLA, I can borrow his. I think, though, he keeps his in his bedroom -- don't ask :laugh:

is your neighbor a power bottom? :confused:

[strandinthewind]

is your neighbor a power bottom? :confused:

No, he is straight - which means nothing :laugh:

[carrie721]

No, he is straight - which means nothing :laugh:

yeah, as i said - is he a power bottom? :lol:

[estranged4life]

All I can say about the gas prices is what my Mom used to tell me:

"Save gas...Fart in a jar" :thumbsup:

[strandinthewind]

yeah, as i said - is he a power bottom? :lol:

Actually, his wife is quite lovely -- If I remember correctly, the law jockey was a towel holder - but it was a long time ago :cool:

[camchristo]

I have a loaded Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 with special leather package. it was stupid on my part to pay that much money for a Jeep cause I keep thinking I could be driving a Mercedes. I'm looking to get rid of it and pay off some other bills and I think I have a buyer.

Not to make you feel bad, but I drive an MB for a little more than half of your payment. It's a 2004 and I got it in 2005 and I love it. It had just under 10,000 miles on it when I bought it so I saved a ton of money. It is a 2 door hatch back. They don't make them anymore so hopefully it lasts me a long time cause I'm really happy with it.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Wow. Just read the whole thread. There's 10 minutes of my life I'll never get back. I just want to ask - isn't real estate a lot higher over there too? Apartments featured on House Hunters International :laugh: are usually between $250,000 & $500,000 U.S. - and they're really small! You have to take cost of living into account if you're going to argue who's worse off.



Let's not even get started on that one! :lol: But yes... house prices are just ridiculous over here... let's just face it.. everything is bloody expensive over here!

[irishgrl]

Let's not even get started on that one! :lol: But yes... house prices are just ridiculous over here... let's just face it.. everything is bloody expensive over here!
so, just curious: those of you that live over there, what do you earn in a month? and how much of your paycheck goes to pay for gas? and how much for your mortgage?

In CA (for the most part), it takes two incomes to afford a home. and only after creative financing. (ie adjustable mortgage rates which are EVIL)
here is a link to a state by state comparison of house prices, circa 2006:
http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/26/real_estate/costliest_housing_cities_for_middle_managment/index.htm

(ETA: the price that Paula quoted, is that a purchase price for an Apartment? if so, that IS high...)

[irishgrl]

Not to make you feel bad, but I drive an MB for a little more than half of your payment. It's a 2004 and I got it in 2005 and I love it. It had just under 10,000 miles on it when I bought it so I saved a ton of money. It is a 2 door hatch back. They don't make them anymore so hopefully it lasts me a long time cause I'm really happy with it.
I can attest to the fact that Jeeps are gas-hogs :( but I need a 4wd for winter, because without it, I couldnt get up the mountain in the snow...

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

so, just curious: those of you that live over there, what do you earn in a month? and how much of your paycheck goes to pay for gas? and how much for your mortgage?

In CA (for the most part), it takes two incomes to afford a home. and only after creative financing. (ie adjustable mortgage rates which are EVIL)

ps: $250 - $500k for a house is considered REASONABLE in CA.

here is a link to a state by state comparison of house prices, circa 2006:
http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/26/real_estate/costliest_housing_cities_for_middle_managment/index.htm

I know for myself and my husband it has taken 2 incomes to afford a home and everything else. The monthly outgoings are hefty if you add in all the bills. Not sure how things will be when I'm a single parent! We have a huge mortgage right now... around £1200 a month ($2406). Our house is currently for sale for £250,000 ($501,000). It's a 4 bed house but as it's in need of some modernisation the price is cheaper. We were told it would have been on for around £325,000 ($652,000) if it wasn't in need of work. We are north of London... start going south of us and the prices rocket up even more. Everyones circumstances are different. I do know that first time buyers are finding it a real problem to get on the housing ladder.

[irishgrl]

I know for myself and my husband it has taken 2 incomes to afford a home and everything else. The monthly outgoings are hefty if you add in all the bills. Not sure how things will be when I'm a single parent! We have a huge mortgage right now... around £1200 a month ($2406). Our house is currently for sale for £250,000 ($501,000). It's a 4 bed house but as it's in need of some modernisation the price is cheaper. We were told it would have been on for around £325,000 ($652,000) if it wasn't in need of work. We are north of London... start going south of us and the prices rocket up even more. Everyones circumstances are different. I do know that first time buyers are finding it a real problem to get on the housing ladder.
Pip, you have a home right? not an Apartment? That bit you quoted from Paula said an Apartment cost $250-500k.......(why would you be talking about being a single parent??)

what are the wages like over there?? just curious, trying to get a feel for your cost of living...

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

(ETA: the price that Paula quoted, is that a purchase price for an Apartment? if so, that IS high...)

Yep :wavey:

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Pip, you have a home right? not an Apartment? That bit you quoted from Paula said an Apartment cost $250-500k.......so, if a home, how much sq ft?

Yes... we have a home. I have no clue of the square foot but it's a reasonable size. You can see it online here:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-13932233.rsp?pa_n=3&tr_t=buy

It doesn't show much but might give you an idea of size.

BTW... it's the house to the left

P.S If you want to nose at UK house prices this is a good site:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/



(why would you be talking about being a single parent??)

I'm seperating from my husband. The house we are in is up for sale and he has to pay for us to live in something smaller.

[irishgrl]

Yep :wavey:
I find it odd, the idea of buying an apartment....here, you rent an apartment. the rents are pretty high, but not quite that high....I'd have to see what the going rate is in the Bay Area so I could compare....

[irishgrl]

Yes... we have a home. I have no clue of the square foot but it's a reasonable size. You can see it online here:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-13932233.rsp?pa_n=3&tr_t=buy

It doesn't show much but might give you an idea of size.

BTW... it's the house to the left

P.S If you want to nose at UK house prices this is a good site:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/





I'm seperating from my husband. The house we are in is up for sale and he has to pay for us to live in something smaller.
gosh, Im sorry :distress: what do you do for a living? will you be able to cope?

PS: your home is beautiful, Im sorry you're going thru this, it must be a wrench for the whole family....
PPS: Ive always loved the look of English homes, they have more character somehow...

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

what are the wages like over there?? just curious, trying to get a feel for your cost of living...

I guess wages can vary. Up to about a year ago I was earning around £500 ($1003) per month and my hubby was earning around £2000 ($4010) per month. We had a smaller mortgage then... £800 ($1604) per month. But then on top of that you have council tax. Insurance, utilities bills, running 2 cars, food etc. For us it has always been a struggle. We've never really had much money left over each month and this is why we have relied on credit, which can be dangerous! We moved to this house and took on a bigger mortgage as Mike was working abroad a lot and bringing home more money for those months. However on the months he wasn't abroad he went back down to basic wage (which didn't even cover all the bills). This was the initial reason for trying to sell the house as the mortgage was crippling us.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

I find it odd, the idea of buying an apartment....here, you rent an apartment. the rents are pretty high, but not quite that high....I'd have to see what the going rate is in the Bay Area so I could compare....

I guess for some people that is all they can afford so they can get on the housing ladder. I know my sister in law wanted to live and work in London and all her and her partner could afford was an apartment. When they sold that and moved further up north they were able to afford a house

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

gosh, Im sorry :distress: what do you do for a living? will you be able to cope?

I work part-time. I'll have to cope! I do know there will be some benefits I'll be able to claim and Mike will have to pay an amount each month as we have 2 kids. And if I need to get a full time job then I'll have to

[Stew_Matthews]

UK house prices are terrible. For the last few years it has been impossible for younger people to buy. It would require two good wages and the ability to borrow three, four or five times your joint income. As as Pip indicated the mortgage repayments for most people are crippling.

When home, I'm in Holland Park, West London - in a Borough (area) called Hammersmith & Fulham. I inherited my home, a two bedroom flat - and not very big. For central Londoners, it is typical to pay an annual 'service charge' if you live in an apartment block. In theory it covers the cost of maintaining communal areas. My charge is £3500 per year. On top of that we all pay annual 'council tax' which is a local tax to pay for refuse collection, schools etc. Mine isn't too bad at £1500 per year. So people in my apartment block have to find £5,000/$10,000 each year even before they make their mortgage payments and pay their bills.

Of course the house price increases have driven up the cost of renting so it's a pretty dire situation. I just don't know how people manage, and as Bretonbanquet said, it isn't that UK wages are twice yours.

..............and don't get me onto the cost of jeans and cds....:laugh:

[irishgrl]

I work part-time. I'll have to cope! I do know there will be some benefits I'll be able to claim and Mike will have to pay an amount each month as we have 2 kids. And if I need to get a full time job then I'll have to
I forgot, you have a program over there if you're unemployed that is a bit different that OUR unemployment system. If I understand correctly, its a bit like our Public Assistance programs plus unemployment all in one right?
(here you only get about half what your working wage was--IF you worked!)

I think in New York you can purchase apartments too, but its just an odd notion to me. Here, in CA, people move in and out of apartments so quickly, it doesnt make sense to buy...I guess we're pretty mobile here, pretty much due to the job market...

[irishgrl]

UK house prices are terrible. For the last few years it has been impossible for younger people to buy. It would require two good wages and the ability to borrow three, four or five times your joint income. As as Pip indicated the mortgage repayments for most people are crippling.

When home, I'm in Holland Park, West London - in a Borough (area) called Hammersmith & Fulham. I inherited my home, a two bedroom flat - and not very big. For central Londoners, it is typical to pay an annual 'service charge' if you live in an apartment block. In theory it covers the cost of maintaining communal areas. My charge is £3500 per year. On top of that we all pay annual 'council tax' which is a local tax to pay for refuse collection, schools etc. Mine isn't too bad at £1500 per year. So people in my apartment block have to find £5,000/$10,000 each year even before they make their mortgage payments and pay their bills.

Of course the house price increases have driven up the cost of renting so it's a pretty dire situation. I just don't know how people manage, and as Bretonbanquet said, it isn't that UK wages are twice yours.

..............and don't get me onto the cost of jeans and cds....:laugh:
I think I may have not made myself clear re: the whole wage bit, all I was trying to say is that the value of the pound was twice that of the dollar. I dont know what wages are for different jobs over there, it would be interesting to find out...

I think the only REAL way to see the relative cost of gas there vs. here would be to compare what PERCENTAGE of your monthly outgo it represented when compared to what a person makes.

for example: if you were a single parent and if you only earned minimum wage in CA, (currently $6.75) and you worked a 40 hr week, you'd gross $270/week, x 4 = $1080/mo gross wages. tax represents about a third of that, leaving you with about $723.60 take home. If you rent an apartment in the Bay Area, thats your entire check. no money for bills. no money for gas. There are programs that subsidize housing costs if you are low income, but if you h ave to pay childcare on top of that, its just not do-able. :shrug:

[Stew_Matthews]

I think I may have not made myself clear re: the whole wage bit, all I was trying to say is that the value of the pound was twice that of the dollar. I dont know what wages are for different jobs over there, it would be interesting to find out...

I think the only REAL way to see the relative cost of gas there vs. here would be to compare what PERCENTAGE of your monthly outgo it represented when compared to what a person makes.

for example: if you were a single parent and if you only earned minimum wage in CA, (currently $6.75) and you worked a 40 hr week, you'd gross $270/week, x 4 = $1080/mo gross wages. tax represents about a third of that, leaving you with about $723.60 take home. If you rent an apartment in the Bay Area, thats your entire check. no money for bills. no money for gas. There are programs that subsidize housing costs if you are low income, but if you h ave to pay childcare on top of that, its just not do-able. :shrug:


..........I couldn't re-live the petrol price debate:D ! It's not a definitive answer but I live in London and my brother lives in Monterey (CA) and we both agree that the UK is generally a more expensive place to live than the US.

Stew

[irishgrl]

..........I couldn't re-live the petrol price debate:D ! It's not a definitive answer but I live in London and my brother lives in Monterey (CA) and we both agree that the UK is generally a more expensive place to live than the US.

Stew
Well, Breton said he paid $1.90 at the pump (US dollars) which translates to approx $7.60gal US.....without knowing what he earned in a month or what percentage of his take home gas represented, it really is hard to make a comparison....

I can say that for me, gas represents about one fifth of my take home. mortgage, a little more than one fourth. But I am lucky, I have a little home, in a pretty remote part of the state, so my home cost is not representative of what most californians pay. Gas, however is high throughout the state, and I do a fair bit of commuting, AND, my car is a gas hog.

And, California is generally more expensive than other states (please see my house price comparison chart a few posts back.)

ETA: Obviously, the cost of living in Europe is crazy. I dont see how people manage, really, unless there are programs there for people to take advantage of that help with costs...London is just beyond crazy. I guess there's even a new tax there because of congestion and whatnot, right? you have to pay just to enter London? Good Grief....

[strandinthewind]

I believe London is the most expensive city in the world to live in. If it is not still number one, it is up there.

Of course, I LOVE London :laugh: But, the Cornish coast is dear to me as well as is Cardiff, which I hear is quite affordable.