The Forgotten Chimpanzee .... ?!

[Sahara]

I haven't heard Jane in quite a while, so I put it in the CD player and this line just jumped out at me...

"Children of the world
The forgotten chimpanzee
In the eyes of the world
You have done so much for me..."

I rewound several times to make sure I heard it right, and yes, the word really was "chimpanzee"...

Not a word I ever expected to hear in a Stevie Nicks song, if I'm being honest... so what on earth is that line about?!

[catinthedark]

the song is about jane goodall.

[Sahara]

the song is about jane goodall.

.....It all makes so much more sense now....!!

:rolleyes: Thank you!! :thumbsup:

[Beatlesfan]

That's what I always assumed - it's a neat sentiment, but it's still almost comical every time I hear that line - nowhere else will you ever hear a line like that!

[strandinthewind]

I love it and I am not ashamed to admit it .<<<<<<<< and that's a period :cool:

[Johnny Stew]

The line gets a lot of flack, and of course it's not the most poetic thing Stevie's ever written, but, really, would you write a song about John Glenn and not mention the moon or space exploration? Or a song about Steve Erwin and not mention crocodiles?

[foxyluva]

"Jane" is the worst song Stevie has ever recorded. Period.

[Richard B]

The line gets a lot of flack, and of course it's not the most poetic thing Stevie's ever written, but, really, would you write a song about John Glenn and not mention the moon or space exploration? Or a song about Steve Erwin and not mention crocodiles?

I blame the klonopin. The song sucks and so does that chimp lyric.

You can write a song about someone famous and not be glaringly trite. She did it with Gypsy (for Robyn) and Edge of 17 (for Lennon and her Uncle) without being ridiculous.

Many songwriters get the message to the lyric without blantantly banging it over your head. Metaphors are a good thing.

[Sahara]

The line gets a lot of flack, and of course it's not the most poetic thing Stevie's ever written, but, really, would you write a song about John Glenn and not mention the moon or space exploration? Or a song about Steve Erwin and not mention crocodiles?

True enough! Why did she decide to write a song about Goodall in the first place...? :shrug: She's done fantastic and important work of course, but it's not something I'd associate with being particularly close to Stevie...?

[BlackWidow]

"Jane" is the worst song Stevie has ever recorded. Period.

actually Docklands has that title.

[Johnny Stew]

True enough! Why did she decide to write a song about Goodall in the first place...? :shrug: She's done fantastic and important work of course, but it's not something I'd associate with being particularly close to Stevie...?It was written (with Joel Derouin) for a 1991 benefit concert in honor of Jane Goodall, and then Stevie recorded it for 'Street Angel.'

[Johnny Stew]

I blame the klonopin. The song sucks and so does that chimp lyric.

You can write a song about someone famous and not be glaringly trite. She did it with Gypsy (for Robyn) and Edge of 17 (for Lennon and her Uncle) without being ridiculous.

Many songwriters get the message to the lyric without blantantly banging it over your head. Metaphors are a good thing.I wouldn't call Robin Anderson or John Nicks "famous," but I understand what you're saying.

I do still think the "chimpanzee" reference helps make this particular song specific to Jane Goodall and not just some random woman named "Jane."

[Sahara]

It was written (with Joel Derouin) for a 1991 benefit concert in honor of Jane Goodall, and then Stevie recorded it for 'Street Angel.'

That's interesting...! A lot of the lyrics seem very personal, though, "you have done so much for me" in particular... like Stevie had a real personal connection with the woman for whom she wrote it, although it doesn't seem to me that she had that with Jane Goodall.... Any thoughts?

[priestofnothing]

actually Docklands has that title.

Ah yes, I agree, Docklands.... let's go down to the LAUNDROMAT!
And throw our Frankenbocks in the spin cycle....

Stevie at her mystical worst. LOL!

But....
Me loves her still...

[Beatlesfan]

Actually, the lyrics to Docklands never really hit me :p I love the music to it, so I just sing along without even paying attention to what I'm singing most of the time. :D

[Livia]

At least Stevie didn't write Docklands - Trevor Horn and Betsy Cook did. :rolleyes:

[Kelly]

That's interesting...! A lot of the lyrics seem very personal, though, "you have done so much for me" in particular... like Stevie had a real personal connection with the woman for whom she wrote it, although it doesn't seem to me that she had that with Jane Goodall.... Any thoughts?

Yes, I think many of the lyrics are not necessarily about Jane Goodall. I know why it was written and what Stevie has said about the song. A few of the lyrics just do not make any sense if they are supposed to be about forgotten chimps and one Jane Goodall. Some of the lyrics absolutely seem to be about what Stevie has talked about publically, of course. I do not really hate the song but it certainly is not a favorite.

[PenguinHead]

Forgotton? I can never forget that chimpanzee!:eek:

[AliceLover]

I blame the klonopin. The song sucks and so does that chimp lyric.

You can write a song about someone famous and not be glaringly trite. She did it with Gypsy (for Robyn) and Edge of 17 (for Lennon and her Uncle) without being ridiculous.

Many songwriters get the message to the lyric without blantantly banging it over your head. Metaphors are a good thing.

How is Gypsy about Robin? It was written for the BD sessions (maybe even before that). Robin dies in 82. The song may have taken on a new meaning when she died, but I never applied the song to her, personally.

[PenguinHead]

Ah yes, I agree, Docklands.... let's go down to the LAUNDROMAT!
And throw our Frankenbocks in the spin cycle....

Stevie at her mystical worst. LOL!

But....
Me loves her still...

Notice that when she sang Docklands in concert (why??), she avoided the word laundromat and replaced it with the "river." Relatively, I guess you can wash clothes at both places.:laugh:

[sparky]

Forgotton? I can never forget that chimpanzee!:eek:

I suspect Electro Shock Therapy couldn't make me forget about the chimpanzee.
This is Stevie at her self involved worst. Only she could write a tribute to someone else and end up writing and singing about herself.:laugh:
A classic Klonopin moment if ever there was one.
Great inspiration, trainwreck execution.

[catinthedark]

How is Gypsy about Robin? It was written for the BD sessions (maybe even before that). Robin dies in 82. The song may have taken on a new meaning when she died, but I never applied the song to her, personally.

yeah. agreed. in fact, stevie has explicitly said gypsy is about herself, and her moving back to san fran, living in a basement apartment, with her mattress on the floor, the room decorated with paper flowers and lace.

[PenguinHead]

I suspect Electro Shock Therapy couldn't make me forget about the chimpanzee.
This is Stevie at her self involved worst. Only she could write a tribute to someone else and end up writing and singing about herself.:laugh:
A classic Klonopin moment if ever there was one.
Great inspiration, trainwreck execution.

I agree, but in some strange way I actually like/appreciate Stevie's worst clunkers. Why? Because they are totally unique to Stevie -- no one else in the world could/would ever create some of the things she does.

In Jane's family I'd also include these members:

Two Kinds Of Love
Alice
Desert Angel
When I See You Again
Welcome To The Room Sara
The Nightmare

[sparky]

I agree, but in some strange way I actually like/appreciate Stevie's worst clunkers. Why? Because they are totally unique to Stevie -- no one else in the world could/would ever create some of the things she does.

In Jane's family I'd also include these members:

Two Kinds Of Love
Alice
Desert Angel
When I See You Again
Welcome To The Room Sara
The Nightmare


The Nightmare and Alice are kinda listenable. The others are total clunkers.
I used to have an odd appreciation for them too. Kind of like a parent who remarks on the drawings a kid does on the wall, but adds the statement, "These are really odd drawings Junior did on the wall. They are POOP drawings, but kind of interesting, right? Junior is so unique and creative!"

Now I just want to wash the **** off the wall and go into another room, Sara.

[petep9000]

I think Stevie is, at best, an opportunist. In 1991 when the song was penned, I recall Greenpeace and Earth Day and PETA and all that was very hip and trendy. In 1990, she even made some Klonopined-out reference on the 'Behind The Mask' tour about how everyone should support Greenpeace because "if there are no more trees there is no more music" or something goofy like that. I don't recall anyone here or on Nicksfix commenting about her making environmental statements these days at her concerts.

Remember the first Gulf War, suddenly that moved Stevie to write 'Desert Angel', a song about war yet when I listen to it all I hear is "Me, me, me me and me".

9/11? Well, we got 'Illume'. Again, a whole lot of "me" with some candles and Nag Champra thrown in.

Second Gulf War? No new track (yet) but we did get a couple of high-profile visits to Walter Reed (and I bet they didn't take her to the back-wards where the roaches thrived and exposed asbestos was falling down on our parapalegic soldiers).

You can bet a song about the hideous Virginia Tech massacre is in the works though.

[Phoenix]

yeah. agreed. in fact, stevie has explicitly said gypsy is about herself, and her moving back to san fran, living in a basement apartment, with her mattress on the floor, the room decorated with paper flowers and lace.

Only the first part of the song is about that. Like alot of her songs there are afew people,or things that they are about. The "i still see your bright eyes.....bright eyes..." ect. is about Robin.

[Phoenix]

[QUOTE=petep9000;682059]
when I listen to it all I hear is "Me, me, me me and me".
QUOTE]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[BlackWidow]

How is Gypsy about Robin? It was written for the BD sessions (maybe even before that). Robin dies in 82. The song may have taken on a new meaning when she died, but I never applied the song to her, personally.

Gypsy was not written about Robin.

[strandinthewind]

She has said that that time in her life - the lace, paper flowers, bed on the floor, etc. -- was before she was the star - - she has also said Robin was her only friend who knew her as that. So, it is possible that going back there included Robin. Personally, I think the bright eyes line likely refers to innocence, which she had back then and was trying to return to. But, that innocence certainly included her relationship with Robin, who knew her best.

Also - Jane haters can KISS IT :p

[Johnny Stew]

I think Stevie is, at best, an opportunist.

Remember the first Gulf War, suddenly that moved Stevie to write 'Desert Angel', a song about war yet when I listen to it all I hear is "Me, me, me me and me".

9/11? Well, we got 'Illume'. Again, a whole lot of "me" with some candles and Nag Champra thrown in.It can be viewed either way, certainly, but I've always liked the fact that Stevie puts herself in the shoes of who/what she's singing about. She finds the aspects of their life or their experiences that she relates to, and she builds the song from there... so, instead of the song taking the form of an observational social commentary, it becomes something more personal.

[Musicman408]

I think Stevie is, at best, an opportunist. In 1991 when the song was penned, I recall Greenpeace and Earth Day and PETA and all that was very hip and trendy. In 1990, she even made some Klonopined-out reference on the 'Behind The Mask' tour about how everyone should support Greenpeace because "if there are no more trees there is no more music" or something goofy like that. I don't recall anyone here or on Nicksfix commenting about her making environmental statements these days at her concerts.

Remember the first Gulf War, suddenly that moved Stevie to write 'Desert Angel', a song about war yet when I listen to it all I hear is "Me, me, me me and me".

9/11? Well, we got 'Illume'. Again, a whole lot of "me" with some candles and Nag Champra thrown in.

Second Gulf War? No new track (yet) but we did get a couple of high-profile visits to Walter Reed (and I bet they didn't take her to the back-wards where the roaches thrived and exposed asbestos was falling down on our parapalegic soldiers).

You can bet a song about the hideous Virginia Tech massacre is in the works though.

Yes, that would be great. New material time baby:nod:

[strandinthewind]

It can be viewed either way, certainly, but I've always liked the fact that Stevie puts herself in the shoes of who/what she's singing about. She finds the aspects of their life or their experiences that she relates to, and she builds the song from there... so, instead of the song taking the form of an observational social commentary, it becomes something more personal.

I agree - for instance, she was in NYC on 9/11. But, she is not a New Yorker. So, she went back to her house after the tour was over (a tour she continued with the firm belief that her concerts were helping people by taking their toughts off 9/11) and with her thoughts and some incense reflected on that journey and how the leaders were what legends were made of. The song is about having hope in the face of despair and realizing that cherishing the loved one in your life everday is so important because the shadow of the stranger in his evil can take them from you. So, to say the song is all about a self absorbed Stevie is just incorrect and it demonstrates a rather stark misunderstanding of her lyrics.

[sparky]

You can bet a song about the hideous Virginia Tech massacre is in the works though.


OMG.

:laugh:

You are more cynical about her than I am.

If that were to happen I would burn my collection.

[Richard B]

How is Gypsy about Robin? It was written for the BD sessions (maybe even before that). Robin dies in 82. The song may have taken on a new meaning when she died, but I never applied the song to her, personally.

I don't know. I just heard that somewhere from some interview she did. I think Robin was already sick before that with the Leukemia. I think deciding to have her baby made her ultimately die much sooner.

But my point is that Stevie has always written wonderful metaphors in her lyrics, so I think using chimpanzee in her lyric was a bad choice and not necessary. The whole song was presented for a Jane Goodall event and it was clear who the song was about. Thank god it wasn't Dian Fossey.

[sparky]

Thank god it wasn't Dian Fossey.

:xoxo:

The Forgotten Gorilla.

From bad to worse.

Luckily I know of no one who has done similar groundbreaking work
with Marmosets, Orangutans or Macaques.

[catinthedark]

Yes, that would be great. New material time baby:nod:

i'm sorry - but i find your reaction to that absolutely disgusting. 32 people killed in cold blood - but hey, if it gets you some new stevie music, it's all good?

you turn my stomach.

[Phoenix]

She has said that that time in her life - the lace, paper flowers, bed on the floor, etc. -- was before she was the star - - she has also said Robin was her only friend who knew her as that. So, it is possible that going back there included Robin. Personally, I think the bright eyes line likely refers to innocence, which she had back then and was trying to return to. But, that innocence certainly included her relationship with Robin, who knew her best. Also - Jane haters can KISS IT :p

That is exacally right. Stevie has talked OVER AND OVER AND OVER about what the first two lines of gypsy are about. but thats all you ever hear. (OVER AND OVER.)
but here is additional insight
from in herownwords .com:
The song Gypsy isn't a real happy story. Gypsy is a lot about returning to San Francisco. And Gypsy was written when my best friend [Robin] died of Leukemia and uh ...about the fact that she wasn't going to see the rest of this: I still see your bright eyes, it was like she wasn't ...going to make it. And uh, I was like the lone gypsy ~ this was my best friend from when I was 15 and so I was a solo gypsy all of a sudden and it was very sad for me and that's sometimes when I write my very best songs. Robin had been on the road with Fleetwood Mac for five years. As my speech therapist and also management, an incredibly efficient helper. I still miss your bright eyes ~ that's why we don't do it on stage ~ it's because it's really too hard for me to sing.

Lightening strikes maybe once, maybe twice... that means one time in your life you find a very good friend, and maybe if you're incredibly lucky, you might find a second. It all comes down to you, means but you have to look very hard.
~Stevie Nicks, video interview for Fleetwood Mac's Greatest Hits (1988)


The last two lines of that have always meant alot to me. The lightning strikes part. It just makes sence to me, and seems beautiful.:angel:

[BlackWidow]

She has said that that time in her life - the lace, paper flowers, bed on the floor, etc. -- was before she was the star - - she has also said Robin was her only friend who knew her as that. So, it is possible that going back there included Robin. Personally, I think the bright eyes line likely refers to innocence, which she had back then and was trying to return to. But, that innocence certainly included her relationship with Robin, who knew her best.

Also - Jane haters can KISS IT :p

I think Mick Fleetwood made a great observation about Gypsy when it came out. He said it was a metaphor for lost innocence.

[PenguinHead]

The Nightmare and Alice are kinda listenable. The others are total clunkers.
I used to have an odd appreciation for them too. Kind of like a parent who remarks on the drawings a kid does on the wall, but adds the statement, "These are really odd drawings Junior did on the wall. They are POOP drawings, but kind of interesting, right? Junior is so unique and creative!"

Now I just want to wash the **** off the wall and go into another room, Sara.

I love that! A very astute way to frame the issue!:]

[PenguinHead]

[QUOTE=petep9000;682059You can bet a song about the hideous Virginia Tech massacre is in the works though.[/QUOTE]

lol...and sure enough Stevie will manage to make the song about her and her tragic life.

[Sahara]

I think it's a little harsh to say that Stevie makes every song about her....!

Granted, I'm not denying that it happens :p but all we have to go on is our own experience and what we see through our own pair of eyes, we can't truly look at anything through anyone else's perspective. Her lyrics are often about her own reaction to these awful things like 9/11 -- and at the end of the day what else do we have...?

Just my €0.02!

[Sorcerer386]

Here's my thought on Gypsy. I think the song is split in two. The first part is obviously what Stevie always says, about returning to the gypsy that she was with the mattress on the floor and the lace and paper flowers, blah blah, we know the story. But the verse after the bridge I think is about Robin. Now, how can it be about Robin when Stevie wrote it before she knew Robin was sick? Well, I don't know the timeline of the song's creation, but in the Bella Donna outtake that I used to have, that third verse after the bridge is missing. She goes back and sings the first verse again. That makes me wonder if the third verse was written after she found out about Robin, and it was included on Mirage. Kind of like how the verses for Planets were written well after No Light. :shrug:

[petep9000]

lol...and sure enough Stevie will manage to make the song about her and her tragic life.


yes, a 'river of tears from the pain' of money, cars, fans, mansions, private planes, groupies, power, influence, and all the party drugs one can do. Sounds pretty painful to me, alright.:lol: