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View Full Version : Auto insurers play hardball in minor-crash claims


gldstwmn
02-10-2007, 10:22 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/09/insurance.hardball/index.html

By Drew Griffin and Kathleen Johnston
CNN

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- If you are injured in a minor car crash, chances are good that you will be in the fight of your life to get the insurance company to pay all the medical costs you incur -- even if the accident was no fault of your own.

That's what CNN discovered in an 18-month investigation into minor-impact soft-tissue injury crashes around the country. Those are accidents in which there is little damage to the vehicle and the injuries to people are not easy to see by the naked eye or conventional medical tools like X-rays.

Since the mid-1990s, most of the major insurance companies -- led by the two largest, Allstate and State Farm -- have adopted a tough take-it-or-leave-it strategy when dealing with such cases.

The result has been billions in profits for insurance companies and little, if anything, for the public, according to University of Nevada insurance law professor Jeff Stempel.

"We can see that policyholders individually are getting hurt by being dragged through the court on fender-bender claims, and yet we don't see any collateral benefit in the form of reduced premiums even for the other policyholders," Stempel said.

"So I think now we can say to continue this kind of program is in my view institutionalized bad faith."

If you have never heard of the strategy, it's because insurance companies don't want you to know that they are paying out less and less for minor crashes even while their profits soar and your premiums continue to rise.

But after a review of more than 6,000 company documents and court records, interviews with a dozen people nationwide, including former company insiders, and conversations with accident victims, the picture is clear: If you challenge the offer by some insurance companies you will be left with no option but to go to court, where you will be dragged through the wringer.

Expensive, time-consuming
In an affidavit in a New Mexico case where Allstate is being sued, one of the company's former attorneys said the strategy is to make fighting the company "so expensive and so time-consuming that lawyers would start refusing to help clients."

Shannon Kmatz, a police officer and former Allstate claims agent, said company employees were encouraged to get rid of claims quickly and cheaply and even offered accident victims as little as $50, telling them to take it or leave it.

Both Roxanne Martinez of Santa Fe, New Mexico, and Ann Taylor of West Lafayette, Indiana, saw the practice firsthand.

Martinez suffered neck and back injuries when she was sideswiped by a driver insured by Allstate.

After three years, the company finally offered her $15,000 -- a little more than half of what she needed for lost wages and medical bills.

She went to court, and four years after the accident a jury awarded her $167,000 plus interest.

"It's kind of hard when you are thinking they are going to leave you broke. ... That was very stressful," she said.

Taylor was not as fortunate when her case went to trial.

The Indiana nurse was rear-ended by a State Farm employee driving a State Farm car. Damage to her car was minimal but she suffered herniated disc and muscle tears.

Taylor racked up medical bills and lost wages amounting to about $15,000. The company offered her $2,000.

"I was just very insulted," she said.

She sued, but three years later a jury came back with a judgment for her of only $1,500.

The jury didn't believe she could be hurt in an accident in which the vehicle had barely a dent.

Three jurors told CNN photos of the two cars involved in the accident -- enlarged and prominently displayed by the defense -- played a huge role in their decision.

And one said they assumed Taylor had already been compensated by the insurance company and was just trying to get more money.

Profitable strategy
The cases, CNN found, illustrate a carefully developed strategy to make the victims look like they are trying to defraud the insurers.

But documents CNN obtained indicate profit, not fraud, is the reason companies decided to play hardball in small accidents.

For Allstate and State Farm, according to documents obtained by CNN, the strategy was developed in the mid-1990s with the assistance of consulting giant McKinsey & Co.

Looking for a way to boost profits, McKinsey focused on soft-tissue injuries incurred in minor crashes.

While the McKinsey documents -- numbered in the thousands -- are under seal in courts around the country, CNN saw several of them during a court hearing in Lexington, Kentucky.

Playing off Allstate's signature slogan, one document recommends the insurer put boxing gloves on its "good hands" for those who insist on going to court.

The strategy, according to former Allstate and State Farm employee Jim Mathis, relies on the three D's -- denying a claim, delaying settlement of the claim and defending against the claim in court.

"The profits are good, and as long as the community, the public allows this to occur, the insurance companies will get richer and people ... will not get a fair and reasonable settlement," Mathis said.

Both Allstate and State Farm declined requests for interviews.

In an e-mail, Allstate wrote it did not believe it would "have any real opportunity of being successful in getting you (CNN) to do a balanced report."

State Farm wrote: "We take customer service seriously and seek to pay what we owe, promptly, courteously and efficiently, and we handle each claim on its own merits."

The company also said, "Any attempt to generalize that State Farm adopted consultant recommendations as other insurers is just plain wrong."

A company spokesman sent an additional e-mail, saying that the company did work with McKinsey to improve claims handling but State Farm stopped using the McKinsey program in 1999.

Robert Hartwig, president of the Insurance Information Institute, told CNN insurers do not have a strategy of blanket denial of claims. He also said strategies to limit expenditures on minor-impact crashes are needed to fight fraud.

Hartwig specifically singled out lawyers who he claims make a living on car accident victims, saying those lawyers are upset because "the gravy train is over."

markolas
02-10-2007, 10:41 AM
Ugh. And there's nothing you can do, short of just not owning a car, because it's illegal to not carry insurance. :distress:

gldstwmn
02-10-2007, 11:03 AM
Ugh. And there's nothing you can do, short of just not owning a car, because it's illegal to not carry insurance. :distress:

I have a personal interest in this article becuase I am getting royally fukced right now for my accident which involved a herniated disc in my neck and soft tissue injury. And because I'm self employed, these bastards don't want to pay me for lost wages for the times I commuted and went to physical therapy (3-4 times a week, 2-3 hours a day) because my income is speculative. My former insurer State Farm did jack **** for me. They asked me if I was okay. And that was it. No lie. I wasn't at fault BTW. The driver that hit me was from out of state, here on vacation, driving someone else's vehicle and driving under suspension. Then he took off. Fortunately, he didn't know the neighborhood so I was on my cell phone with the cops and chased him and cornered him in an alley in North Denver. It took the cops 45 minutes to show up. So here I was trapped with this hit and run driver in an alley for 45 minutes by myself. I had the mace ready. And the Denver DA didn't want to press charges for hit and run because I only chased him five blocks and they only prosecute if you chase them for ten. Can you believe this ****? It's ludicrous. I blew through a substantial portion of my life savings over this deal. And my primary care physician wouldn't treat me because "they don't do car accidents." WTF? Here's what the fukcer did to my car. I had only bought it three months earlier. This amounted to about $2000 in damage:

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a397/peekingsleeping/0072.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

markolas
02-10-2007, 12:28 PM
Oh, god that's crazy! My insurer is a company called Infinity. I've never had to file a claim, so I have no idea what that would be like. But I do only pay $85 a month for full coverage. Progressive was charging me $245 a month, so I said **** that ****. That's almost as much as my car note.

And my primary care physician wouldn't treat me because "they don't do car accidents." WTF?

I hope he's not your primary care physician anymore.

JazmenFlowers
02-10-2007, 01:11 PM
good lord Chris. I wish you were here, I know someone that works for the largest personal injury firm here and they usually get 3 times meds for any soft tissue damage. they have "special" doctors they send you to and they run up the bills and then arrange for him to cut his costs so that you are able to get more money in your pocket.

I'm lucky to have lots of contacts that keep me informed and protected should something like this happen.

gldstwmn
02-10-2007, 01:19 PM
Oh, god that's crazy! My insurer is a company called Infinity. I've never had to file a claim, so I have no idea what that would be like. But I do only pay $85 a month for full coverage. Progressive was charging me $245 a month, so I said **** that ****. That's almost as much as my car note.

I hope he's not your primary care physician anymore.

I have an orthopedic surgeon who is my only doc right now. Fortunately I haven't had to go to a PCP for anything but it's not her fault, it's just the way it is here in Colorado. The legislature changed the law in regards to bodily injury and f'ed everything all up. So now you have to go to someone who specializes in these types of injuries. These docs also do a lot of workman's comp and that sort of thing. I will say I got really good care from them. But as far as these being minor injuries, my neck injury is permanent. I couldn't ride a bicycle for eight months because my neck/shoulder couldn't withstand the pressure and I'd end up in intense pain. There were a whole lot of little things that you take for granted that I couldn't do, like turn my head quickly. It took me 1 1/2 years to resume my yoga practice. And after those first few classes, I was walking around as though rigor mortis had set in. :laugh:

gldstwmn
02-10-2007, 01:21 PM
good lord Chris. I wish you were here, I know someone that works for the largest personal injury firm here and they usually get 3 times meds for any soft tissue damage. they have "special" doctors they send you to and they run up the bills and then arrange for him to cut his costs so that you are able to get more money in your pocket.

I'm lucky to have lots of contacts that keep me informed and protected should something like this happen.

You are lucky. I looked around for someone I thought would be good to work with. Needless to say, at this point I'm not too fond of insurance companies, PI attorneys, claims adjusters, etc. And State Farm and Kentucky Farm Bureau blow.

carrie721
02-10-2007, 04:20 PM
And my primary care physician wouldn't treat me because "they don't do car accidents." WTF?

wow. that is insane! i'm sorry you had to go through that. my PCP told me the same thing when i was in my accident. he refused to see me, even tho the ER doc told me to call my PCP the next day. he wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. wtf.

estranged4life
02-10-2007, 04:56 PM
And my primary care physician wouldn't treat me because "they don't do car accidents." WTF? Here's what the fukcer did to my car. I had only bought it three months earlier.

That's a a new one I have never heard. What kind of physician is that?

In early 2004 when Deb was finally cleared to return to work, she had an accident in our car. She swerved to avoid hitting a coyote and left the wet roadway and plowed through a barbwired fence and was lucky that the ground was wet. The car became bgged in mud since she wrecked on a steep incline cause otherwise she would have wrecked down that incline and been critically injured.

After I arrived at the scene I noticed that Deb wasnt hurt, and the car only suffered superficial cosmetic damage (The car ran through the barbwire fence and under it, thus leaving the car with scrapes on the driver's side door and the roof.).

After changing the flat front tires on the car, I drove Deb to the ER room to make sure her chest wound, where she had her sternum broken open to remove a cancerous mass was not damaged. The ER doctor & Deb's primary doctor asked what happened and then proceeded to check her chest wound, which was fine, but sore.

We reported the accident to our insurance company, who said unless the damage to the car was extensive it wouldnt be worth the effort to file a claim, since we would only get about $250 back. So we decided to not file the claim on the car. Luckily the insurance company did pay for the ER trip.

My older brother, when he was a resident of Tulsa, was involved in 2 separate car accidents that were not his fault (Including one accident which the person at fault was in the US illegally and this person did not have a driver's license). Both time the drivers did not have any insurance, so when my brother filed his claim he got basically the short end of the deal. He basically had to ingest the loss to his automobiles and pay for any minor injury that he had.


I remember a couple years ago the local NBC affiliate ran a story on car insurance, and as shocking as it is only about 30% of rural Oklahomans have car insurance even though it is compulsary in this state for all drivers to carry at least liability insurance. So when we take a trip nearby we worry about the other drivers on the road.

Call it ironic, but Oklahoma's former insurance commissioner Carroll Fisher (D) recently went to prison for fraud charges, among other charges, from illegal activities he participated in while in office. Seems the insurance companies he was to be overseeing to make sure they do not screw the consumer were lining his pockets under the table.

JazmenFlowers
02-11-2007, 01:55 PM
^^^
it's actually fairly common, at least here. because of the lawsuits that may occur. that's why PI attorneys have a set of doctors that they'll send you to. as they have relations with these doctors, it's easier to get records and reduce the bills so that everyone gets more money in settlement

strandinthewind
02-11-2007, 02:00 PM
^^^
it's actually fairly common, at least here. because of the lawsuits that may occur. that's why PI attorneys have a set of doctors that they'll send you to. as they have relations with these doctors, it's easier to get records and reduce the bills so that everyone gets more money in settlement

I believe the expression is "Plaintiff's whore" and "Defense whore" -- It really is sick IMO - I mean I have seen both just flat out lie in the face of objective medical evidence.

JazmenFlowers
02-11-2007, 02:09 PM
I believe the expression is "Plaintiff's whore" and "Defense whore" -- It really is sick IMO - I mean I have seen both just flat out lie in the face of objective medical evidence.
I have no comment. :lol:

ok, just one. you're totally right. the personal injury world, like the ones that sustain a firm, is a joke. not the ones that matter...but the little soft tissue or minor things...

gldstwmn
02-11-2007, 02:12 PM
I believe the expression is "Plaintiff's whore" and "Defense whore" -- It really is sick IMO - I mean I have seen both just flat out lie in the face of objective medical evidence.

I have an MRI of my neck that if I would post if I could. It ain't pretty. Pictures don't lie.

JazmenFlowers
02-11-2007, 02:13 PM
I have an MRI of my neck that if I would post if I could. It ain't pretty. Pictures don't lie.
have you talked to an attorney?

estranged4life
02-11-2007, 02:56 PM
I have an MRI of my neck that if I would post if I could. It ain't pretty. Pictures don't lie.

my MRI results for yours, I can live with a neck injury instead of a blank spot that was formerly my brain :nod:

gldstwmn
02-12-2007, 04:02 PM
have you talked to an attorney?

Yes. He's eff'in worthless. So finally last week I ended up leaving a message for the claims adjuster myself. I don't know what to do anymore.

gldstwmn
02-12-2007, 04:05 PM
my MRI results for yours, I can live with a neck injury instead of a blank spot that was formerly my brain :nod:

Only if it includes your bootleg collection. :lol: Seriously though, I'm going to go visit my little metaphysical shop that I go to in a few days and I'm going to send out a wish for all of our good health into out very old age.