Lindsey on Jimmy Kimmel!

[wondergirl9847]

Got this in a MySpace bulletin! GO LEDGIES GO!!

Lindsey Buckingham Fans,

Our friends at 1iota.com are looking for die hard Lindsey Buckingham fans to be part of his performance on Jimmy Kimmel Live Thursday, December 14th. Jimmy Kimmel Live features celebrity guests, cutting edge performers, like Lindsey Buckingham, with plenty of surprises, panic, and general pandemonium. The best part is, Lindsey Buckingham will play anywhere from 3-5 songs for you.

If you are interested in seeing Lindsey Buckingham in person and being a part of the Jimmy Kimmel Live audience, please visit www.1iota.com and follow these simple steps:

· Click the 1iota TV Shows button
· Click the Jimmy Kimmel Live logo
· Choose the Lindsey Buckingham event link to request tickets

ATTENDANCE TO THIS EVENT IS BY INVITATION ONLY!!!

Remember, BE QUICK, because space is EXTREMELY LIMITED!!

MUSTS:

· YOU MUST BE AT LEAST 18 YEARS OLD
· YOU MUST BE AVAILABLE ON Monday, December 14th. FROM 6:15PM - 9:00PM
· YOU MUST HAVE A VALID PHOTO ID
· PLEASE DO NOT WEAR WHITE, LIGHT BLUE, BEIGE OR LOGOS, AS THEY DONT COME ACROSS WELL ON CAMERA
· PLEASE DO NOT BRING LARGE HANDBAGS OR KNAPSACKS
· NO CAMERAS OR RECORDING DEVICES

[DrummerDeanna]

I was just coming over to post this..ya beat me to it!! Sounds way cool...!! I haven't checked yet - is this legit?? Sometimes bogus bulletins are sent (it happened to Weird Al)...

[danax6]

I think it's legit. :nod:

[BTFLCHLD]

<img src="http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/BTFLCHLD/cheerleader3.gif" border="0"> <img src="http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/BTFLCHLD/studsmatta.gif" border="0"> <img src="http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/BTFLCHLD/studsmatta.gif" border="0"> <img src="http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/BTFLCHLD/studsmatta.gif" border="0"> <img src="http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/BTFLCHLD/cheerleader3.gif" border="0">

[DrummerDeanna]

I think it's legit. :nod:

I think you're right - it doesn't have the tell-tale sign of a bogus MySpace bulletin :D Too bad the timing is so damn short!!

[BTFLCHLD]

Monday, December 14th???? Isn't the 14th tomorrow or am I losing it? :rolleyes:

Oh it reads both monday and thursday....ayyyeeee!

[WelshWitchPMD]

Oh well it's in Los Angeles so that leaves me out.:laugh:

[BTFLCHLD]

Oh well it's in Los Angeles so that leaves me out.:laugh: and me very much in! 'cept this could turn to bust just as the tickets for rockstar inxs did...
one has to be there crackdawn to get in...

[estranged4life]

According to my TV schedule on DishNetwork, "Jimmy Kimmel Live" on Dec.14 features actor Forest Whitaker, actor Eric Dane & musical artist Beck will perform.

Hmmm, guess I'll record it just to be safe (Rather record it and have the schedule be wrong than not record and have it be right.)

[BTFLCHLD]

fine print: e-tickets are in excess of capacity; therefore an e-ticket may not gaurantee admittance.

[Livia]

I just got the same info in an email from fleetwoodmac.com.

It also mentioned that the NPR thing is going to be rebroadcast on 12/28.

[MacMan]

According to my TV schedule on DishNetwork, "Jimmy Kimmel Live" on Dec.14 features actor Forest Whitaker, actor Eric Dane & musical artist Beck will perform.

Hmmm, guess I'll record it just to be safe (Rather record it and have the schedule be wrong than not record and have it be right.)

Could be another situation, where it's taped one day - but airing much later. Like on Ferguson.

[wondergirl9847]

At ABC.com, under the Jimmy Kimmel show, it shows these people for tomorrow. Forest Whitaker is shown as being on Friday, not Thursday.

Thursday, Dec. 14: TV host/radio personality Ryan Seacrest, 12-year-old college student Terence Candell, Jr., musical guest Beck

Friday, Dec. 15: Radio personality and "King of All Media" Howard Stern, actor Forest Whitaker, musical guest NAS


But then, at 1iota.com, it shows this, when you click on get tickets....

Thursday, December 14 @ 6:15 PM
guests: Forest Whitaker, Lindsey Buckingham

I'm confused. :confused: So, is Forest on Thursday or Friday? Is Lindsey on Thursday or is it being filmed for a later date? :shrug:

[face of glass]

Isn't there usually only two songs per artist broadcast on Kimmel (even though they might perform more in the studio)? I remember when New Order played there last year and they even rolled the credits midway through the second song because they ran out of time.

Then again, in Lindsey's case that second song would probably be GYOW anyway. Let's hope you all get some nice 'encores' after that.

[bikerchic]

It's posted on Lindsey's site now http://www.lindseybuckingham.com/

[LINDSEY#1FAN]

Oh well it's in Los Angeles so that leaves me out.:laugh:

Counts me out, too!!!!!!!!!!!!!:(

[BTFLCHLD]

I will be standing in the line. :D
Hopefully I will have something to report tonight.

[estranged4life]

Well, turn on ABC to watch Jimmy Kimmel and no Lindsey...One can only hope they may be taping him for a future airing.

[BTFLCHLD]

ok...Lindsey performed "Not Too Late" and "Never Going Back Again."

I do believe the show will be on tomorrow night. They explained to us thier, admittedly, confusing schedule. We would be the televised audience for Ryan Seacrest, even though he wasn't there (!), but we watched interviews with Forest Whittaker and a 12-yr old boy who graduated college, and then we watched Lindsey perform. I have no idea if we will be the live audience for Lindsey or what...but I guess we will see when the show airs. When he announced Ryan Seacrest he said tomorrow's show would be Forest Whittaker. So, if indeed Ryan is on tonight then Lindsey should be on tomorrow night. Strange.

Jimmy did not interview Lindsey. I had a good time, laughed a lot, and met some cool people. Lindsey sounded great and looked gorgeous as per usual. He sure seems sad though. :shrug: I spoke with Ray for a minute or two, and Chris was there, but Lindsey's bandmates weren't.

[BTFLCHLD]

well...Lindsey is not on tomorrow night...hopefully soon. Here is the link to the schedule through 12/22:

http://abc.go.com/primetime/jimmykimmel/index.html

[amber]

That is massive balls of cool (ice cream) that you saw it. :woohoo: :woohoo:

I think next Tues or Wed from what I've heard. Spanks for the link.

I wish Kimmel had interviewed him, but perhaps some brilliant staff member noted that Linds could not possibly give an answer that was less than two minutes long.
I kid because I love. I also kid because I wish everyone would interview Lindsey, I love his interviews. Even when they are cyclical, they still seem to say a lot. :laugh:

[WelshWitchPMD]

ok...Lindsey performed "Not Too Late" and "Never Going Back Again."

I do believe the show will be on tomorrow night. They explained to us thier, admittedly, confusing schedule. We would be the televised audience for Ryan Seacrest, even though he wasn't there (!), but we watched interviews with Forest Whittaker and a 12-yr old boy who graduated college, and then we watched Lindsey perform. I have no idea if we will be the live audience for Lindsey or what...but I guess we will see when the show airs. When he announced Ryan Seacrest he said tomorrow's show would be Forest Whittaker. So, if indeed Ryan is on tonight then Lindsey should be on tomorrow night. Strange.

Jimmy did not interview Lindsey. I had a good time, laughed a lot, and met some cool people. Lindsey sounded great and looked gorgeous as per usual. He sure seems sad though. :shrug: I spoke with Ray for a minute or two, and Chris was there, but Lindsey's bandmates weren't.


I am so glad that you got in to see Lindsey.:D I wonder why he seems so sad.:shrug:

[Gazza]

I wish he'd stop doing Not Too Late. It's a nice opening song, but it's not going to sell the album.

[skcin]

^ I agree. I think we've established that LB is not all about sales this time around, but a different song would be nice - Show You How or Down on Rodeo or It Was You would be better choices, IMO.

[GardenStateGirlie]

many times they'll pretape shows or segments of shows to air for future shows. since it's almost christmas, no doubt they've taped those shows in advance or will piece segments together to complete a show. although i love not too late, i agree. i wish he would play another song -- under the skin itself would be a good choice.

[BTFLCHLD]

IMO he has been performing NTL on televised shows based on the lyrics perhaps peaking an interest in the purchase of UTS.

[skcin]

many times they'll pretape shows or segments of shows to air for future shows. since it's almost christmas, no doubt they've taped those shows in advance or will piece segments together to complete a show. although i love not too late, i agree. i wish he would play another song -- under the skin itself would be a good choice.

My only issue with that is that is sounded muddled live at the show I saw. But I love the song. :nod:

IMO he has been performing NTL on televised shows based on the lyrics perhaps peaking an interest in the purchase of UTS.

Well if that's the case, I think he's way off base. :sorry: Even though I'm a big fan, I chuckled out loud when I heard that opening verse for the first time. I still don't love it - too literal for me. I just don't think the general public would say "wow, those lyrics are interesting, I'm going to check out the rest of the CD." But you may be right. :shrug:

You'd think he'd do Under The Skin so the general public would remember the album title. :D

[shackin'up]

I wish he'd stop doing Not Too Late. It's a nice opening song, but it's not going to sell the album.

He's not insane. He isn't touring and promoting for sales. He does it to make an impression. And he chooses those songs to MAKE the impression-not to sell.

He wants to be seen and heard and he's going for that. Bigtime.

[Little Nicki]

He's not insane. He isn't touring and promoting for sales. He does it to make an impression. And he chooses those songs to MAKE the impression-not to sell.

He wants to be seen and heard and he's going for that. Bigtime.
But he can play other songs and not sell. You'd think he'd be either more about pleasing his fans and therefore play a variety of songs, or be so proud of his album that he'd play a variety of songs. I'm just waiting for Try For the Sun to be played live one day.

[face of glass]

He's not insane. He isn't touring and promoting for sales. He does it to make an impression. And he chooses those songs to MAKE the impression-not to sell.

He wants to be seen and heard and he's going for that. Bigtime.
To be frank, out of all the songs on UTS Not Too Late is the one that's the most likely to drive away a newcomer to Lindsey's music.

Which is why that's the song he's currently using in these TV performances. ;)

[shackin'up]

To be frank, out of all the songs on UTS Not Too Late is the one that's the most likely to drive away a newcomer to Lindsey's music.

Which is why that's the song he's currently using in these TV performances. ;)

:nod: nice winky Gaius, but there's a very true point in there. He wants to impress more than gather new interest. Dumb-to a certain extend, but true.

[Johnny Stew]

He's not insane. He isn't touring and promoting for sales. He does it to make an impression. And he chooses those songs to MAKE the impression-not to sell.Then he's making the wrong impression... "Not Too Late" is the worst song on the album, IMO.

[shackin'up]

Then he's making the wrong impression... "Not Too Late" is the worst song on the album, IMO.

Bull**** again, stewie. You're quite good at that. It's his choice to perform songs that are most typical for what he was going for: the guitar that does all the work. pointedly no leadguitar, pointedly no drums. That song is his stripped to the bone what this album is all about. That's why he does it. IMO, ofcourse. I know YOU don't like that, but hey! that's normally a compliment in my book. I would have chosen SUD for the same reasons Lindsey seem to have. But that one is a fraction more difficult vocally. And stringwise too.

[Little Nicki]

Bull**** again, stewie. You're quite good at that. It's his choice to perform songs that are most typical for what he was going for: the guitar that does all the work. pointedly no leadguitar, pointedly no drums. That song is his stripped to the bone what this album is all about. That's why he does it. IMO, ofcourse. I know YOU don't like that, but hey! that's normally a compliment in my book. I would have chosen SUD for the same reasons Lindsey seem to have. But that one is a fraction more difficult vocally. And stringwise too.

You seem to have this need to defend Lindsey in every way, about everything. We should take a poll of who thinks Not Too Late is one of the weaker songs on the album(where's ethan when you need him?). The man can write a less than stellar song, it's ok. And I agree with you, Shut Us Down is a FAR better song in my opinion, and would serve the same musical purpose, just maybe not lyrical.

[shackin'up]

You seem to have this need to defend Lindsey in every way, about everything. We should take a poll of who thinks Not Too Late is one of the weaker songs on the album(where's ethan when you need him?). The man can write a less than stellar song, it's ok. And I agree with you, Shut Us Down is a FAR better song in my opinion, and would serve the same musical purpose, just maybe not lyrical.

I do NOT defend Lindsey in every way. I recently said that I didn't like the CMT-cooperation and I really think it was bad choice, although it had it's moments. And in a reaction on FaceOfGlass in this thread I even used the term "dumb".

I defend Lindsey against flat and popular opinions because I still think his artistic values are sincere. A lot of americans think that that's just an attitude and I don't think so.
I defended SUD from the first second. And there was a LOT of bashing there. It is one of the most daring things he ever recorded and I tend to defend him as long as he fights for his muse.

Not too Late may not be his best song (I love it though), I just UNDERSTAND why he takes that one out as a summary for what he wanted to express on under the skin.

And by the way, you'd never see me rank that album as a collection of songs. I love it because of the entity and the whole approach on that album. My dream would be a live-rendition of the whole album and some dusted-off rockers to end the show.

[Johnny Stew]

Bull**** again, stewie. You're quite good at that. It's his choice to perform songs that are most typical for what he was going for: the guitar that does all the work. pointedly no leadguitar, pointedly no drums. That song is his stripped to the bone what this album is all about. That's why he does it.Some of us don't focus solely on how quickly he can move his fingers as he plays -- we also listen to the lyrics. And, quite frankly, I think the lyrics to "Not Too Late" come off like a rich white man with a beautiful wife, three kids and a huge house whining that he's ever so misunderstood. :shrug:

"Under The Skin" would be an awesome selection for him to perform. The lyrics are poignant and the instrumentation is nothing short of sublime. In my opinion, "NTL" is a far weaker effort and not the best representation of Lindsey or of this album.

And as far as the idea that he wants to "impress more than gather new interest" with these TV appearances... well, let's get real -- the whole reason anyone goes on a late-night talk show is to promote whatever it is they're trying to sell. I doubt Lindsey would waste his time if he didn't hope that his appearances would help sell additional copies. After all, he even did the very thing he turned his nose up at when Warners wanted Fleetwood Mac to do it -- he went on Country Music Television.

[shackin'up]

Some of us don't focus solely on how quickly he can move his fingers as he plays -- we also listen to the lyrics. And, quite frankly, I think the lyrics to "Not Too Late" come off like a rich white man with a beautiful wife, three kids and a huge house whining that he's ever so misunderstood. :shrug:



Yeah, right. you know me. I only focus on how quickly he can move his fingers as he plays. Thanks dude. In the last few years you've got a nice reception of Shackin'up: a guy that only focusses on technique and isn't interested in content. Yes perfect dude.

And for your description of the lyric of NTL: you are the perfect example of an american that only looks at the surface. I'll defend LB to death against guys like you. It's unbelievable that so few people understand what he's saying here. He's not whining, if you don't see that, you don't want to.

[shackin'up]

..add to that that 95 percent of all frickin' reviews opened with a quote from that song. And not to bash the whinyness, but to search for the artist's interior dialogues and reflections. I can't believe that there's a need on this board to explain that lindsey's solo-albums differ bigtime from FM-work, at least the parts that were seen by the public eye, and that the artistic struggle for recognition of his neurotic perfectness- approach is real and not a pose or just spoiled brat behaviour.

With which I have NOT stated that he isn't a spoiled brat. Ofcourse he his.

[danax6]

Some of us don't focus solely on how quickly he can move his fingers as he plays -- we also listen to the lyrics. And, quite frankly, I think the lyrics to "Not Too Late" come off like a rich white man with a beautiful wife, three kids and a huge house whining that he's ever so misunderstood. :shrug:
But one does not really have anything to do with the other. It's his personal life vs. his professional life. I have to agree with Gerald here and say it's not Lindsey whining in Not Too Late, he's trying to explain something. He's trying to explain why he's still doing all this, all the while realizing what a toll it sometimes takes on his family. As for why he performs this song instead of say 'Under the Skin'...he's been promoting it as a stripped down 'I-could-have-played-you-this-album-in-your-living-room' album, and so he has to bring forth the album as such. Under the Skin can't really be performed with just one guitar, it would not have the same sound it has on the album. I think he chose Not Too Late because it reflects the very personal side of the album, which is another thing he's been promoting. Not Too Late is a fairly literal tale, and therefor easier for the audience to grasp, IMO.

He hasn't been playing stripped down one-guitar Fleetwood Mac songs like Big Love and Never Going Back Again during various promotional interviews and performances for nothing. He wants it to be understood that that's what the audience can expect.

[shackin'up]

But one does not really have anything to do with the other. It's his personal life vs. his professional life. I have to agree with Gerald here and say it's not Lindsey whining in Not Too Late, he's trying to explain something. He's trying to explain why he's still doing all this, all the while realizing what a toll it sometimes takes on his family. As for why he performs this song instead of say 'Under the Skin'...he's been promoting it as a stripped down 'I-could-have-played-you-this-album-in-your-living-room' album, and so he has to bring forth the album as such. Under the Skin can't really be performed with just one guitar, it would not have the same sound it has on the album. I think he chose Not Too Late because it reflects the very personal side of the album, which is another thing he's been promoting. Not Too Late is a fairly literal tale, and therefor easier for the audience to grasp, IMO.

He hasn't been playing stripped down one-guitar Fleetwood Mac songs like Big Love and Never Going Back Again during various promotional interviews and performances for nothing. He wants it to be understood that that's what the audience can expect.

I guess one has to be dutch to see the vision.:lol:

[Johnny Stew]

Yeah, right. you know me. I only focus on how quickly he can move his fingers as he plays. Thanks dude. In the last few years you've got a nice reception of Shackin'up: a guy that only focusses on technique and isn't interested in content. Yes perfect dude.It would seem you have an equally off-kilter perception of me. :shrug:
Nevertheless, you said he wants to impress, and I said he wasn't going to impress with the lyrics to this song -- so all that's left to dazzle the uninitiated with is how he's playing it.

And for your description of the lyric of NTL: you are the perfect example of an american that only looks at the surface. I'll defend LB to death against guys like you. It's unbelievable that so few people understand what he's saying here. He's not whining, if you don't see that, you don't want to.Again with your totally off the wall perception of me and what kind of person I am.
For some reason, everytime someone has a dissenting opinion about this album or some of the songs contained therein, you use this snide "it must be because you're a shallow and boorish American" point of view to negate their opinions.
Despite who's sitting in the White House right now, we're not all idiots with poor taste and bad judgement, who spend our time wondering what that whacky Paris Hilton is going to do next.

I am perfectly capable of grasping what Lindsey was going for with the lyrics to "Not Too Late"... hell, they're so blatant, you'd have to be lobotomized to not "get" them. I simply think it's one of his weakest efforts, makes him sound whiney and is not at all a good representation of this album. And certainly this one little song isn't the be-all and end-all of 'Under The Skin' and the only one that would "impress" people.
When Lindsey made TV appearances to promote 'Out Of The Cradle,' he performed "Countdown," "Street Of Dreams" and "Don't Look Down"... he didn't keep rehashing the same tune. He's turned "Not Too Late" into the lone representation of 'Under The Skin,' and it's a pity he's not letting any of the other ten songs have a chance to speak for themselves.

..add to that that 95 percent of all frickin' reviews opened with a quote from that song. And not to bash the whinyness, but to search for the artist's interior dialogues and reflections.In my opinion, so many critics pointed to the lyrics of "Not Too Late" out of sheer laziness. It's the most "hit-you-over-the-head" example of Lindsey's artistic and personal struggles that they didn't have to bother spending time examining the lyrics to any of the remaining tracks to convey to their readers a sense of the man or the artist. Wanna know what Buckingham is all about? Here it is, spelled out for you in a nice, little three minute song.

It's as disappointing as it would have been if "What's The World Coming To" had become the spokesong for Lindsey's 'Gift of Screws'/'Say You Will' work. :shrug:

[shackin'up]

It would seem you have an equally off-kilter perception of me. :shrug:


Right. Now you feel what you started.

1. If you had read all the four and five star reviews you'd know that a lot of them were NOT written from laziness. That song simply sums it all up who and where lindsey is these days. He chose it as an opener for the album and the tour. On both points it's daring and vulnerable. If you don't hear the emotion he adds to the liveversion...well then put on something else and don't bother anymore. A lot of those reviews were wellwritten and going at least one layer deeper than your comments in this thread.

2. I only call someone a shallow american if the arguments they use are shallow and typical american: read:concerning money and success through popularity. Or arrogant statements about knowing better than the artist himself on a moment he's taking risks.

3. Lindsey made the choice for this song as a flagship, but please, he's been on several radioshows playing NGBA, Big Love, Castaway dreams, Down On Radio, BTLH and Show you how. All by himself all just with an acoustic, basicly picking. THAT's what he wants to bring over and the only better song by himself on UTS is Shut Us Down, which I won't fall into rehashing about.

4. you have a right to your own opinion, but your assumption that he's choosing the WRONG impression just hit me. I really can live with good argumented criticism on Lindsey, but I must say, without more intense contributions from Carnevaca, Trackaghost, FaceOfGlass, Stefan, Seteca, MadforMac, Jyqm etcetera this board is suffering. And there are just few people capable of putting me thinking about his music with a more critical ear. Believe me dude, that's the only thing I'm looking for over here.

[trackaghost]

Some of us don't focus solely on how quickly he can move his fingers as he plays -- we also listen to the lyrics. And, quite frankly, I think the lyrics to "Not Too Late" come off like a rich white man with a beautiful wife, three kids and a huge house whining that he's ever so misunderstood. :shrug:



I haven't read the whole of this thread but I think you've clearly missed the point of that song. Not Too Late is about growing up, realising he has different priorities. At first glance it comes across as whiny but if you look at it more closely Linsdey is actually denouncing his past behaviour in a way.

"Reading the paper saw a review
Said I was a visionary, but nobody knew
Now that's been a problem
feeling unseen
Just like I'm living somebody's dream
What am I doing anyway
Telling myself it's not too late"

This is the bitter Lindsey, who for years felt underrated, underappreciated, and even he admits it, ignored while others went on to greater success.

"I'm not a young man but I'm a child in my soul
I feel there's room for a man who is whole
And there's a need for songs that are sung
For a chances not taken for deeds not yet done"

To me this is Lindsey saying there is still time to grab things that are really important to him, his family, his music, it's time to get over his past hang-ups and find fulfilment in these things.

So anyway here we go back to the beginning, that Lindsey feels he hasn't had the credit he deserves...

"So that's been a problem feeling unheard
So called visions always deferred
It must be the reason I developed this need"

And here's the kicker...

"You know you should never believe what you read"

He realises maybe he's being a miserable old sod thinking "Boo hoo hoo, I'm so great and nobody notices me" (courtesy of Jyqm - thank you :D ) and instead I need to get out there and show how great I am and live up to that visionary tag they've pinned on me, instead of whinging that I'm "unseen".

So there you go. It's actually not whingy at all, it's Lindsey saying I've been an idiot and I'm fed up being sulky, instead I'm going to be happy and try and be as good as these so-called critics say I am. I cringed when I first heard the lyrics, but I've since come to really like them.

[amber]

Right. Now you feel what you started.

1. If you had read all the four and five star reviews you'd know that a lot of them were NOT written from laziness. That song simply sums it all up who and where lindsey is these days. He chose it as an opener for the album and the tour. On both points it's daring and vulnerable. If you don't hear the emotion he adds to the liveversion...well then put on something else and don't bother anymore. A lot of those reviews were wellwritten and going at least one layer deeper than your comments in this thread.

2. I only call someone a shallow american if the arguments they use are shallow and typical american: read:concerning money and success through popularity. Or arrogant statements about knowing better than the artist himself on a moment he's taking risks.

3. Lindsey made the choice for this song as a flagship, but please, he's been on several radioshows playing NGBA, Big Love, Castaway dreams, Down On Radio, BTLH and Show you how. All by himself all just with an acoustic, basicly picking. THAT's what he wants to bring over and the only better song by himself on UTS is Shut Us Down, which I won't fall into rehashing about.

4. you have a right to your own opinion, but your assumption that he's choosing the WRONG impression just hit me. I really can live with good argumented criticism on Lindsey, but I must say, without more intense contributions from Carnevaca, Trackaghost, FaceOfGlass, Stefan, Seteca, MadforMac, Jyqm etcetera this board is suffering. And there are just few people capable of putting me thinking about his music with a more critical ear. Believe me dude, that's the only thing I'm looking for over here.

^^^^

That is funny. No matter how well I understand Lindsey's vision, and respect it, and understand why he is picking performing NTL, and how much I realize how well Lindsey thinks it represents the concept and etc. of his new album - it will never make me think it is a better song, or that it is the best suited to represent the album, except in Lindsey's eyes. So we both can think of all the reasons in the world to defend his choice, and understand those reasons inside and out, but that still won't change my own personal feelings that it isn't the best choice.
And I'm not talking about because it doesn't sell the album well enough, I'm talking about how it isn't the best song lyrically, musically, vocally, or thematically on the album. You may think the song sums up all and who and where Lindsey is these days, we may all hear how daring and vulnerable the song is, and how much emotion he adds to the live version - I do.
I just think other songs offer the same amount of emotion live, and are just as daring and vulnerable - songs that I like much better. I think the whole album is daring and vulnerable, but that musically and lyrically, NTL falls short of several other songs.

Now, I'm not saying it is wrong for Lindsey to play this so much, because he should play what he wants. I'm just saying I wish he had chose either a mix off the new album, or a different song to play continuously. Because I think many songs are better.
Also, I don't see how you are looking at L with a more "critical ear" or that the people you named necessarily would be, either. It just seems you are saying your opinion, just like everyone else. Just because your opinion differs from many other people's regarding NTL, doesn't mean you are looking with a more critical ear. In fact, perhaps one could argue you are looking with a less critical ear. And if not, your analysis of the strengths of NTL are no different in weight than someone else's analysis of it, or any other song. You just think you are right, like I'm sure everyone else does. A little arrogant of you to think that since others do not feel the same way about the song, that they don't have a "critical musical ear". They just don't have the same one as you. I could describe why I think other songs are superior to NTL in much the same way you described NTL. Doesn't make either thing universally true. Doesn't make either one of us right. And I don't think our opinions are "shallow" necessarily either.

And I could give a rats ass about Lindsey trying to be "commercially viable" or whatever, I just want to hear him do some other songs from his album publicly that I think are superior to NTL. But also, if you think about it, if someone is popular, we'll probably get to hear more work from them. That is not universally true, but it is mostly true. People don't book tours if no one wants to come see them. You don't get to sing on T.V. shows if no one wants to hear you.
Also, if Lindsey mixed up the songs more, the variety would be an even better representation of the awesomeness of his album. Including NTL.

[trackaghost]

"Under The Skin" would be an awesome selection for him to perform. The lyrics are poignant and the instrumentation is nothing short of sublime. In my opinion, "NTL" is a far weaker effort and not the best representation of Lindsey or of this album.

And as far as the idea that he wants to "impress more than gather new interest" with these TV appearances... well, let's get real -- the whole reason anyone goes on a late-night talk show is to promote whatever it is they're trying to sell. I doubt Lindsey would waste his time if he didn't hope that his appearances would help sell additional copies. After all, he even did the very thing he turned his nose up at when Warners wanted Fleetwood Mac to do it -- he went on Country Music Television.

Of course everyone is assuming that Lindsey thought to himself, "which is the most uncommerical song on the album I can play tonight".

It's quite possible that Lindsey instead thought, you know most people are mentioning this song in reviews, I feel really proud of it and the song represents what I feel the album is. I can't imagine Lindsey checks the messageboards and so wouldn't know that some Ledgies are not so thrilled with the song, so his impression of what songs work on the album will come soley through reviews and the reactions of fans at concerts - and I'm pretty sure no one responded to that song badly live, although of course I wasn't there so I can't say for sure.

I myself like the song, so maybe Lindsey and the people round him do too. Maybe Lindsey said: "what if I play Not Too Soon on TV tonight?", and his friends and family, even the record company, responded "Great idea, we love that song too!" Just because some people here on this board think it's such a terrible represention of him, doesn't mean everyone does. Lindsey's motives may be a lot purer than everyone thinks and unless he comes out and says it, none of us know for sure.

And maybe you and others would be turned off by it, but if I didn't know Lindsey and heard him playing this song on TV, my ears would have pricked up for sure. I think there's a reason why a lot of the alternative press have picked up on this album, and while the pop fans may be bummed out by it, there are other kinds of music fans who are finding a new appreciation of Lindsey through songs like Not Too Late. So I definitely don't see why that song is a bad choice at all.

[Johnny Stew]

2. I only call someone a shallow american if the arguments they use are shallow and typical american: read:concerning money and success through popularity. Or arrogant statements about knowing better than the artist himself on a moment he's taking risks.I never once said that I know better than Lindsey. In fact, I have often on these boards stated that I feel at the end of the day, despite our opinions, it's up to the ARTIST to determine what it is they want to convey in their songs.
I merely expressed MY opinion (and I even stated that it's just MY opinion) that I feel he's giving the wrong impression to people who aren't already fans and open to what he's doing.

I don't believe I'm being a "shallow American" (which sounds like a very prejudiced point of view, if you ask me) by stating that the reason he's even making these TV appearances, is to promote (ie: sell) his album.
It's why Brad Pitt visits Jay Leno when he has a new movie. It's why Ann Coulter stops by to see Larry King when she has another book to peddle. And it's why Lindsey Buckingham is showing up on 'The Jimmy Kimmel Show' and 'The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson' and Country Freakin' Music Television.

I'd also like to point out that the ONLY reason I want Lindsey to sell more copies of his album, is that I think more people should hear what he's doing.
I couldn't care less how much money he makes off this thing or how popular it is -- none of that pays my bills or affects my life in any way.

4. you have a right to your own opinion, but your assumption that he's choosing the WRONG impression just hit me. I really can live with good argumented criticism on Lindsey, but I must say, without more intense contributions from Carnevaca, Trackaghost, FaceOfGlass, Stefan, Seteca, MadforMac, Jyqm etcetera this board is suffering. And there are just few people capable of putting me thinking about his music with a more critical ear. Believe me dude, that's the only thing I'm looking for over here.Why is it that I'm incapable of discussing Lindsey's music? Am I not a fan too? Or do I somehow not count because I don't think everything he does is gold? That's the same line of thinking that gives the Chiffonheads a bad name.

I offered an opinion and even stated that it was just my opinion.
I happen to think it's a weak song and that there are far better representations of 'Under The Skin' -- even when considering the suggestion you made in regards to why he'd choose to play "Not Too Late."

And it strikes me that the majority of the people you named, would basically be expressing the exact opinions you express about Lindsey's music... so where's the "good argumented criticism" and intellectual stimulation in that?

[Johnny Stew]

So there you go. It's actually not whingy at all, it's Lindsey saying I've been an idiot and I'm fed up being sulky, instead I'm going to be happy and try and be as good as these so-called critics say I am. I cringed when I first heard the lyrics, but I've since come to really like them.Despite Gerald's position that I'm shallow and close-minded, I think I've demonstrated in the past that I'm willing to continually revisit a song in the hopes that it'll eventually win me over. So perhaps someday I'll come around to liking "Not Too Late." It's just a shame that for the time being, he apparently feels my opinion in regards to it is something to be discounted... in no small part, it would seem, because of my nationality.

It's quite possible that Lindsey instead thought, you know most people are mentioning this song in reviews, I feel really proud of it and the song represents what I feel the album is.

I myself like the song, so maybe Lindsey and the people round him do too. Maybe Lindsey said: "what if I play Not Too Soon on TV tonight?", and his friends and family, even the record company, responded "Great idea, we love that song too!"Even though it's not a favorite of mine, I wouldn't have scoffed at him performing it on one of these shows. I'm just annoyed that, as I said, it's become the lone representation of this album when it comes to his TV appearances, when I feel he has so much more to offer.

[trackaghost]

Even though it's not a favorite of mine, I wouldn't have scoffed at him performing it on one of these shows. I'm just annoyed that, as I said, it's become the lone representation of this album when it comes to his TV appearances, when I feel he has so much more to offer.

Oh I can definitely understand that. I was responding to Gerald too in a way, because I don't think it's Lindsey making a statement of "This is my art, like it or lump it". I think the song has plenty of commercial appeal, just perhaps to a slightly different audience. And yeah, it would be nice to see Lindsey play a few different songs, but he is pretty set in his ways, and he's obviously decided Not Too Late is the perfect representation of the album, and I wouldn't be surprised, as I said before, if it's because all the reviews did specifically mention it.

[Tusker]

I LOVE It's not too late..I think it's gorgeous, especially the chorus. The words aren't that great, but I love the music. Awesome! It's my favorite on the album.

Then again the songs I seem to love the most, you guys seem to hate. I love "That's all for everyone" and "Mystified" for example, and you guys hate them. The harmonies and melodies on these two are simply beautiful. Anyway...

[wondergirl9847]

I am NOT making the next sentence an Us versus Them statement and I hope nobody else does either. From what I've gathered over 30 years on this Earth, my belief is that Americans have a different taste in music than Europeans.

I like NTL, but it did take a little getting used to. He sings it amazingly live and I do like that he's doing it on the shows. Hearing Big Love for the 1 trillionth time is not really that appealing anymore. LOL Yes, I do wish he would do UTS, but I'm not sure how it sounds with just a guitar. Surely, he could rework it though. Oh well. :shrug: We don't know why he picked that particular song to do on the show circuit, but perhaps it's because of the similarity of Big Love in its structure.

[BTFLCHLD]

Lindsey knows what's best for him. I do believe he has a message with all of the UTS songs. I think that NTL expresses that there are messages still to be heard and, if the desire is to hear them, one would/should give a listen.

[Nico]

I LOVE It's not too late..I think it's gorgeous, especially the chorus. The words aren't that great, but I love the music. Awesome! It's my favorite on the album.

Then again the songs I seem to love the most, you guys seem to hate. I love "That's all for everyone" and "Mystified" for example, and you guys hate them. The harmonies and melodies on these two are simply beautiful. Anyway...

Not Too Late is great. I didn't care for it at all when I first heard it, but it has really grown on me. I definitely pay attention to the words and the emotional way he sings it more than the guitar, though.

Re: That's All For Everyone...really weird but I was on this one board with a lot of "music-snob" types (you know, the ones who will pick out the most obscure artist/album/song as their personal fave of all time and then when you hear it it's like, "how is that so different from this other person/album/song?") and they absolutely LOVED the song. In fact, it was voted the best song on "Tusk" in their little album poll thread. I was clueless because, in all honesty, it still remains my least favorite LB song of all time. I just can't get into it. But it goes to show that there are many out there- including you- who love it and maybe I'm just out in the cold about it's greatness.

But anyway, my favorite live song from UTS at the mo' is It Was You. I effin love it!:xoxo: :]

[shackin'up]

Why is it that I'm incapable of discussing Lindsey's music? Am I not a fan too? Or do I somehow not count because I don't think everything he does is gold? That's the same line of thinking that gives the Chiffonheads a bad name.
And it strikes me that the majority of the people you named, would basically be expressing the exact opinions you express about Lindsey's music... so where's the "good argumented criticism" and intellectual stimulation in that?

No you're perfectly capable of discussing Lindsey's music, I just say that if you just state that "this impression is WRONG", you're not doing that. I'm glad that you know what gives chiffonheads their bad name.

About the people I named: they do NOT express the same opinion as mine- hell, even Trackaghost doesn't do that in her post in this thread. Gaius and I differ very much in lindsey-taste, I still have sparse contact with Carne, who doesn't agree with me that much, and if you had read the last discussions I had with ChiliD and Madformac, you'd know that we Butted heads bigtime. I don't think you're shallow american, Johnny, and you KNOW that. But when it comes to lindsey you frequently are.

And to be fair, I understand that alot of people think that I love everything Lindsey does, which isn't true. I hate 80 percent of Tango in the night and I've always been critical towards OOTC. On this board I expressed my negative feelings about the use of drumcomputers on that album and the productional sheen of Tango, OOTC and SYW alot. So if I was cheap I'd say you have a very shallow picture of my fandom. The mentioned persons do not have that impression. Ask them.

[skcin]

In defense of Stew, in his original statement, he said he thinks NTL "comes off" as whiny. He didn't say that was his perception. :shrug: But I'm just a stupid American, what do I know.

[Little Nicki]

I cringed when I first heard the lyrics, but I've since come to really like them.

Your whole post is a great analysis of the song but this sentence is the only part that applies to the audiences that are watching him perform Not Too Late for the first time. I too have come to like this song quite a bit more than when I first heard it, but people getting this as their first impression of Lindsey probably aren't going to be impressed. I cringed when I first heard the lyrics, and I'm a huge fan of his. Some will love the honesty of the lyrics at first, sure, and some may even think they're so bad that they're intrigued, buy the album, and love it. But I assume many "shallow americans" will cringe and think he's a terrible lyricist and lose all interest. I'm sure he has his reasons for doing the song, but I doubt he thinks it will be a big hit and make the album go platinum.

[BTFLCHLD]

Lindsey won't be on next week either... :distress:

http://abc.go.com/primetime/jimmykimmel/

[trackaghost]

No you're perfectly capable of discussing Lindsey's music, I just say that if you just state that "this impression is WRONG", you're not doing that. I'm glad that you know what gives chiffonheads their bad name.


Gerald, you know I think you're a really cool guy but I think it would be pretty nice thing to do at this point if you apologised for the "shallow American" comment. You have to admit that Johnny Stew is a Lindsey fan - he has all his albums and enjoys his music, whereas there are plenty of people who post here who wouldn't recognise a solo Lindsey tune if it hit them over the head. It is Christmas time after all.:o

[trackaghost]

I'm sure he has his reasons for doing the song, but I doubt he thinks it will be a big hit and make the album go platinum.

I think Lindsey ultimately wants to reach an audience who might look at little deeper - and at second glance those lyrics really aren't as vain as they seem: they are thoughtful stuff. Also the casual fan probably won't know about Lindsey's past issues, it probably won't seem as soul-bearing to them. I think it's more cringe-worthy when you know how bitter and jealous Lindsey was for a while.
Most audiences heard Born In The USA and thought Springsteen was singing how proud he was to be an American, but in reality that song is about how badly America treated its Vietnam vets. It's not flag-waving at all it's a criticism of his country. I'm certainly glad Bruce didn't change his lyrics because he was afraid that some people might find them cringe-worthy (and I did when I first heard it).
I don't think Not Too Late is on the same level as that, but lyrics can be deceiving, and those paying attention might find something a little more rewarding in there. And as I said before, there are plenty of people out there, and lots of critics too judging by the reviews, who did find that song particularly striking, so it's no surprise to me that Lindsey has chosen it as the song he wants to represent the album. And let's face it if he went for the popular vote, Down On Rodeo, it would be misleading as most of the album doesn't sound like that. :)

[gypsysoul]

I agree to a point trackaghost but the fact is, by appearing on tv shows Lindsey IS playing to a big, general audience, most of which won't know him or his work or his past issues.

It's not a question of being American or European, it's about an artist reaching the audience he has chosen to play to.

Whether LB wants to generate sales or raise awareness of his musical ideals on this CD, he still has to make the audience listen to him in the first place before he can make them understand or care about what he is doing.
And he has to do this with a song that connects with the audience on FIRST listen.
Personally i don't think Not too late is that song. The tune is not immediately accessible and the lyrics are too specific to Lindsey the artist for anyone to connect with immediately.

Critics have quoted the lyrics and fans understand what he is saying but on tv he's not playing to the critics and fans. He's playing to someone who may be doing the ironing and has neither the time or inclination to decipher the message of a song he cannot hum along to by an artist he does not know.

[shackin'up]

Gerald, you know I think you're a really cool guy but I think it would be pretty nice thing to do at this point if you apologised for the "shallow American" comment.

I'm sorry dude.

[shackin'up]

I think Lindsey probably wants to reach an audience who might look at little deeper - and at second glance those lyrics really aren't as vain as they seem: they are thoughtful stuff.
That's why I went :shocked: when I read that Stewie shove them away quite brutally as vain and whiney.

[trackaghost]

I agree to a point trackaghost but the fact is, by appearing on tv shows Lindsey IS playing to a big, general audience, most of which won't know him or his work or his past issues.

It's not a question of being American or European, it's about an artist reaching the audience he has chosen to play to.

Whether LB wants to generate sales or raise awareness of his musical ideals on this CD, he still has to make the audience listen to him in the first place before he can make them understand or care about what he is doing.
And he has to do this with a song that connects with the audience on FIRST listen.
Personally i don't think Not too late is that song. The tune is not immediately accessible and the lyrics are too specific to Lindsey the artist for anyone to connect with immediately.

Critics have quoted the lyrics and fans understand what he is saying but on tv he's not playing to the critics and fans. He's playing to someone who may be doing the ironing and has neither the time or inclination to decipher the message of a song he cannot hum along to by an artist he does not know.

But once again you are assuming that Lindsey thinks the song is inaccessible! As I said before, maybe Lindsey isn't being so cynical and calculating. He's probably just chosen a song he thinks is really good, and if he thinks it's really good, others will too.


I also said people would most probably only find the lyrics cringe-worthy if they were aware of his past issues, and since the general audience you think Lindsey is trying to appeal to aren't, then I don't think they necessarily would.

I guess I find it strange what people here find "inaccessible" or uncommercial, because what's so alienating about Not Too Late? It's a nice tune played on acoustic guitar, it's not exactly Animal Collective weirdness. I guess I don't get why this song is such a turn-off, why audiences wouldn't connect to it. It baffles me. I listen to far stranger things that sell a good many records.

[trackaghost]

That's why I went :shocked: when I read that Stewie shove them away quite brutally as vain and whiney.

I think if you've heard Lindsey admit being jealous of Stevie's success and not being recognised, on the surface they do come across that way. We, as fans, need to delve a little deeper, but casual listeners won't necessarily think that, IMO.

I really don't see what is so unappealing about Not Too Late that people would turn their noses up at it on hearing it for the first time. Anyway, there's a huge alternative market out there and maybe Lindsey is reaching out to them. Afterall the usual mature pop crowd certainly didn't make too much effort to buy Say You Will.

It's so strange to me that so many people here think about sales and mainstream appeal all the time. I definitely can understand people wanting Lindsey to play a variety of songs from the album, but appealing to non-fans? No, don't get it at all. Still it's a while since I've had any kind of discussion here on the board. At the end of the day I like Not Too Late and I can't be the only one!

[amber]

This thread is really annoying me now but I really don't see what is so unappealing about Not Too Late that people would turn their noses up at it on hearing it for the first time. Anyway, there's a huge alternative market out there and maybe Lindsey is reaching out to them. Afterall the usual mature pop crowd certainly didn't make too much effort to buy Say You Will.


It isn't unappealing, there is just no melody/musical/lyrical hook. I really don't think it is that easy to get into. Is it good? Yes, it's fine. Is it immediately pleasing, or fun, or have an easily singable tune, or danceable, with a good beat and a fat ass bass part? No. Does it have fierce badass guitar licks? Not in the traditional sense. Do the lyrics have an immediately recognizeable universal quality? Not much. The lyrics are great, just in a subtle way. I don't think the fact that it doesn't have those things is bad, I just really think many people like a lot, or some, of those qualities in music. Even people with varied and complex tastes. There is very little that immediately "grabs" at you from that song, IMO. I'm not sure most people would turn their noses up, he performs it well live, but I think many people would go "oh, that song is kind of boring" at first listen.
If he busted out "Show You How", for instance, I think a lot more people would like it at first listen. Yes, I realize that that song was the "single" if the album could be said to have released one. And I love it, it is interesting, it moves around a lot and is skillful yet catchy and buoyant, the syncopated overlay singing is awesome. It was massive when I saw them do it live. I think Castaway Dreams is both more beautiful than NTL, and the lyrics more poignant and insightful, yet universal.
Etc.
Sometimes you can look deeper at a song, way, way deep, and it still isn't the best song. :shrug: You may understand and appreciate it more, but you may not like it the best, still.

I also don't think NTL is that "alternative", but I certainly hope as many people as possible like it, alternative or not. Or maybe it is, because it is an "alternative" to a song that most people would pick as their favorite from that album...:laugh: (just making a joke, people).

I see everyone's point, and I'm pretty sure we all could agree that we wish L would do more different songs for different appearances.
Just my $.02 on the musical nature of NTL.

[trackaghost]

I also don't think NTL is that "alternative", but I certainly hope as many people as possible like it, alternative or not. Or maybe it is, because it is an "alternative" to a song that most people would pick as their favorite from that album...:laugh: (just making a joke, people).



Artists such as Ryan Adams, Elliott Smith and Richmond Fontaine are "alternative", and they play stripped down acoustic music. I don't see how Not Too Late is different to that. :confused: I also don't care how many people will like it as long as I do, stuff like that doesn't matter to me really.

And not every great song has a immediate hook or a beat you can dance to.

[trackaghost]

well i personally don't think its all about sales and mainstream appeal -
and i believe the folks discussing this just wish that more people knew about him and his tunes and that more people would like his stuff if he were playing a more accessible song- i think they just wish him MORE recognition where i think he is happy with the recognition of people who do dig a little deeper than the general public has time for . . .

whats your fave track on the album trackaghost?:shrug: - just curious

Haha! You actually included things I went onto edit out of my response. :) I'm not that annoyed, I just don't understand why people care about these things. I'll let the record company worry about sales and Lindsey certainly has plenty of money, so I just care about the music. Also if he was more popular he'd be playing bigger venues, and I would have thought those who were lucky enough to catch him on this tour would have been thrilled to see him play smaller places. Lindsey already has loads of fans, most bands would kill to have his fanbase, and I don't think it matters at this stage of his career and with all he's already achieved, that he's not a megastar like Bruce Springsteen. I think even he's accepted it (check out the lyrics for Not Too Late :D )

As for my favourite song. Probably Shut Us Down. But the longer Elizabethtown version. I can't bear the edited version on UTS, it cuts out the best part :shocked:

[BTFLCHLD]

under the skin - he was trying to "shepard" someone else over that line too. . . in what ways do you think he has done that?

If you want, you can reply in the "queen" thread.

[amber]

Artists such as Ryan Adams, Elliott Smith and Richmond Fontaine are "alternative", and they play stripped down acoustic music. I don't see how Not Too Late is different to that. :confused: I also don't care how many people will like it as long as I do, stuff like that doesn't matter to me really.

And not every great song has a immediate hook or a beat you can dance to.
^^^
These aren't really the important parts I was trying to elaborate on with my post.

Everyone here doesn't always think of mainstream sales. I was making a point of how I think other songs are much better. Not because they would make the album sell better, but because of various musical qualities that NTL lacks, not just the two you mentioned above. Although it might make the album sell better, which would be a bonus, but not influence my opinions about the songs at all.

No not every great song has the various musical qualities that people readily and predictably respond to that I previously mentioned - But I also don't think NTL is one of those great ones. It's good.

It seems like I hear a lot of different types of music being called "alternative". So many, that is actually a bit meaningless in terms of describing the type of sound an artist has. I guess the album could be called alternative. But I think there are poeple who employ finger picking who may not be called alternative so that reasoning in and of itself to label it "alternative" falls a bit short for me. Also, Lindsey himself has has employed the fingerpicking style so frequently (albeit usually with other instruments playing as well) that is it really alternative? :laugh: But anyway, what he is called doesn't matter much.

[shackin'up]

I think if you've heard Lindsey admit being jealous of Stevie's success and not being recognised, on the surface they do come across that way. We, as fans, need to delve a little deeper, but casual listeners won't necessarily think that, IMO.


So Stewie is a casual listener! You brutal b*tch! That even worse than a shallow american!:lol:

No I know what you mean. I love Not Too Late too, although, SUD is the best thing on the record imo, and I'm really pissed that he doesn't do it in concert.

But the main attraction of UTS, imo, is the whole reflective quality of the album, the vision of it. Not only the vulnerability of the content, also the musical approach. In the total concept, I could-at last- even live with the editing of SUD, because Lindsey went for an album with "pointedly no leadguitar". If I play the track solely, I really miss the instrumental part, If I play the entire record, I don't. It works, and that's quite an effort.

UTS is not my fave solo-album, although it comes close to Go Insane. And the fact that he gets real big critical acclaim for it-even after such a long hiatus, says alot: I NEVER read more raving reviews for a LB-album. H*ll, even the best album ever recorded by anyone ( have I mentioned before that I mean Tusk? ) got bashed alot more.

[trackaghost]

^^^
These aren't really the important parts I was trying to elaborate on with my post.

Everyone here doesn't always think of mainstream sales. I was making a point of how I think other songs are much better. Not because they would make the album sell better, but because of various musical qualities that NTL lacks, not just the two you mentioned above. Although it might make the album sell better, which would be a bonus, but not influence my opinions about the songs at all.

No not every great song has the various musical qualities that people readily and predictably respond to that I previously mentioned - But I also don't think NTL is one of those great ones. It's good.

It seems like I hear a lot of different types of music being called "alternative". So many, that is actually a bit meaningless in terms of describing the type of sound an artist has. I guess the album could be called alternative. But I think there are poeple who employ finger picking who may not be called alternative so that reasoning in and of itself to label it "alternative" falls a bit short for me. Also, Lindsey himself has has employed the fingerpicking style so frequently (albeit usually with other instruments playing as well) that is it really alternative? :laugh: But anyway, what he is called doesn't matter much.

Everything you've said about Not Too Late is completely subjective though. "I think other songs are much better" and "I also don't think NTL is one of those great ones." Other people might hear it and feel differently. Me for instance. NTL still has the verse chorus verse structure as far I as can tell, and I can hum it.

And of course alternative music is an umbrella term for many different types of music. So is pop music or rock music. Britney sounds nothing like The Beatles for instance but both are pop. I don't think it's meaningless. Maybe to you.
Also I never said actually his finger-picking style made him "alternative". Really I was making the point of him appealing to an alternative audience with this new album, because before they may have written Lindsey off as a has-been or as boring MOR music, and this stripped down approach would appeal more to them than the SYW stuff, which may be seen as overproduced and "mature". The new album just may make him a little cooler in many people's eyes, and it may just appeal to a slightly different audience than he has had in the past, that's all I was saying.

[trackaghost]

So Stewie is a casual listener! You brutal b*tch! That even worse than a shallow american!:lol:

No I know what you mean. I love Not Too Late too, although, SUD is the best thing on the record imo, and I'm really pissed that he doesn't do it in concert.

But the main attraction of UTS, imo, is the whole reflective quality of the album, the vision of it. Not only the vulnerability of the content, also the musical approach. In the total concept, I could-at last- even live with the editing of SUD, because Lindsey went for an album with "pointedly no leadguitar". If I play the track solely, I really miss the instrumental part, If I play the entire record, I don't. It works, and that's quite an effort.

UTS is not my fave solo-album, although it comes close to Go Insane. And the fact that he gets real big critical acclaim for it-even after such a long hiatus, says alot: I NEVER read more raving reviews for a LB-album. H*ll, even the best album ever recorded by anyone ( have I mentioned before that I mean Tusk? ) got bashed alot more.

I just think Johnny Stew had written off the track too soon and he's already said he's willing to give it another chance, which is cool :)

You get what I mean about UTS appealing to a more alternative audience don't you Gerald? It's really hard to explain to someone who isn't into non-mainstream stuff. The stripped down approach and websites like Stereogum and mags like Uncut heaping praise on him, help make him seem a little cooler, don't you think?

[shackin'up]

You get what I mean about UTS appealing to a more alternative audience don't you Gerald? It's really hard to explain to someone who isn't into non-mainstream stuff. The stripped down approach and websites like Stereogum and mags like Uncut heaping praise on him, help make him seem a little cooler, don't you think?
Absolutely. I even got some friends of mine rave about the album. Even the productional approach adds to that. It took some time to get it-even for me- but then again, he's always tempting me with his solowork. I have to dig in my "adaptation-competence" to "get" it. But after hearing the radio-liveversions of NTL and SYH I understood. If Lindsey is playing it "direct" it's almost perversely personal and "in your face". The production gives it some more distance and keeps it away from someones ambarrassment. Maybe he needed that for himself too. Live it's no prob: he's always been very shameless in a livesetting. He definately looks cooler in the alternative audience.

[amber]

Everything you've said about Not Too Late is completely subjective though. "I think other songs are much better" and "I also don't think NTL is one of those great ones." Other people might hear it and feel differently. Me for instance. NTL still has the verse chorus verse structure as far I as can tell, and I can hum it.
Yes, it was subjective, but I was attempting to also explain some reasons why a good portion of people perhaps wouldn't like it as much as you on first listen. Which I still think is true, because of the reasons I said. Other people will hear it differently, and like it right away, but I think a lot less people will like it right away then some other songs. Which is fine, but for people to say it is very accessible - I don't agree with that.

And of course alternative music is an umbrella term for many different types of music. So is pop music or rock music. Britney sounds nothing like The Beatles for instance but both are pop. I don't think it's meaningless. Maybe to you.
Also I never said actually his finger-picking style made him "alternative". Really I was making the point of him appealing to an alternative audience with this new album, because before they may have written Lindsey off as a has-been or as boring MOR music, and this stripped down approach would appeal more to them than the SYW stuff, which may be seen as overproduced and "mature". The new album just may make him a little cooler in many people's eyes, and it may just appeal to a slightly different audience than he has had in the past, that's all I was saying.
Perhaps you are right. The kind of alternative audience that likes stripped down approach. How this album could make him "cooler" is beyond me, but god bless. I mean, it's a great album, but "cooler"? Well, you seem to know about such things...

[BTFLCHLD]

well...I sent the CD to my brother...and on first listen he likes NTL and Castaway Dreams. :wavey:

[BTFLCHLD]

I love Not Too Late too, although, SUD is the best thing on the record imo, and I'm really pissed that he doesn't do it in concert. I am curious, since he shares credit for SUD, whether Lindsey wrote the lyrics and music or participated in both or ?

[shackin'up]

. I mean, it's a great album, but "cooler"? Well, you seem to know about such things...

Yes, Cooler. It's something that has always been a THING for lindsey. Never really be taken serious by the alternative, borderlines of popmusic, just because his first and second efforts in FM sold incredible amounts of albums they associated him always with that big moneymachine. Tusk, L&O, Go insane, GOS, all cripple artefacts because they were not totally seen in a total image: not cool enough for the alternative artistic world, not accessable enough for the commercial world. At least UTS fits in one category now. The category where he wants to see himself, too, because the other category has been reality long enough for him.

[trackaghost]

Yes, it was subjective, but I was attempting to also explain some reasons why a good portion of people perhaps wouldn't like it as much as you on first listen. Which I still think is true, because of the reasons I said. Other people will hear it differently, and like it right away, but I think a lot less people will like it right away then some other songs. Which is fine, but for people to say it is very accessible - I don't agree with that.


By the same measure, I think that are plenty of people it will appeal to. The reasons you gave i.e. a hook, a danceable beat, I didn't agree made a song great or accessible. For some reason I keep using Springsteen as an example but Streets Of Philadelphia, has none of those things, it's dark and moody, but it was a big radio hit. People like different things, what is inaccessible to you might sound beautiful to millions.

Perhaps you are right. The kind of alternative audience that likes stripped down approach. How this album could make him "cooler" is beyond me, but god bless. I mean, it's a great album, but "cooler"? Well, you seem to know about such things...

:shrug: I really don't know how to explain it better than that. Johnny Cash didn't change his songwriting style or his lyrics, just stripped away the cheesy country production, and a younger, and yes, alternative, audience discovered him and he became relevant again. A lot of people forget that Cash was written off in the 80s as a country relic, Rick Rubin really did help Cash rediscover his cool for a new generation.
You may not see that Under The Skin is cooler, but Stereogum keeps mentioning it, and that is a website that focuses on so-called cool music. And mags like Uncut have too, and they usually champion less mainstream artists.

[trackaghost]

Yes, Cooler. It's something that has always been a THING for lindsey. Never really be taken serious by the alternative, borderlines of popmusic, just because his first and second efforts in FM sold incredible amounts of albums they associated him always with that big moneymachine. Tusk, L&O, Go insane, GOS, all cripple artefacts because they were not totally seen in a total image: not cool enough for the alternative artistic world, not accessable enough for the commercial world. At least UTS fits in one category now. The category where he wants to see himself, too, because the other category has been reality long enough for him.

I agree. I think Lindsey would definitely prefer to be thought of as cool, and respected as an influential artist, like Neil Young is, rather than sell millions of records. Of course Dylan has it down pat, because he's both cool and a big seller. But let's face it who can match Dylan? He's pretty much untouchable in most ways.

[shackin'up]

Of course Dylan has it down pat, because he's both cool and a big seller. But let's face it who can match Dylan? He's pretty much untouchable in most ways.

Regarding the place he has in reception of the critics AND the masses, I agree. But as a careerlong musical reinventer I place LB higher.

[BTFLCHLD]

I am curious, since he shares credit for SUD, whether Lindsey wrote the lyrics and music or participated in both or ? another Q for Lindsey :wavey:

[Für Elise]

I agree. I think Lindsey would definitely prefer to be thought of as cool, and respected as an influential artist, like Neil Young is, rather than sell millions of records. Of course Dylan has it down pat, because he's both cool and a big seller. But let's face it who can match Dylan?john lennon probably. even when he's dead actually more so because he's dead. he did so much for music that its still cool to blast his bad songs out on the radio.

I don't really get the discussion. I don't know that anyone who didn't already know and like him gives a damn more or less about him since this album

[BTFLCHLD]

another Q for Lindsey :wavey:
I hope we have an answer for this...especially since Cory's site states "my song" whenever SUD is mentioned. I want to know if they both wrote the song or what? Did she just write the lyrics and he wrote the music or what?

"Most recently my song Shut Us Down was performed by Lindsey Buckingham in the Cameron Crowe movie Elizabethtown."

[DavidMn]

I hope we have an answer for this...especially since Cory's site states "my song" whenever SUD is mentioned. I want to know if they both wrote the song or what? Did she just write the lyrics and he wrote the music or what?

"Most recently my song Shut Us Down was performed by Lindsey Buckingham in the Cameron Crowe movie Elizabethtown." Isnt Jimmys show taped right across from the Kodak?

[trackaghost]

john lennon probably. even when he's dead actually more so because he's dead. he did so much for music that its still cool to blast his bad songs out on the radio.

I don't really get the discussion. I don't know that anyone who didn't already know and like him gives a damn more or less about him since this album

But Lennon isn't comparable because he (obviously) isn't releasing any new music. His cool is kind of frozen in time because we didn't see him grow old and uncool.
Dylan and Young are the only old dudes I can think of still making music that causes such a stir in the music press and with music fans when they release something new. McCartney maybe, but he hasn't had half the acclaim for his solo career as Dylan and Young, and not many trendy types I know like him outside of The Beatles.

As for the discussion, I've definitely had people who would have dismissed Lindsey as from those soft rock/MOR has-beens before, who sat up and took notice of Under The Skin because it was being mentioned by the cooler publications and websites. That's my experience anyway. It's only a small shift but enough for me to notice. (Who would have thought for instance he'd appear on the cooler-than-cool-let's-choose-really-obscure-bands Pitchfork's writers list? Only on one or two, but enough to shock me)

And the argument was about choosing more accessible songs for his TV appearances in order to expand his fanbase, but honestly I don't care about that at all, and I hope Lindsey doesn't either. General pop fans don't care about an old band like the Mac anymore aside from their old hits, so if Lindsey wants to expand his audience he has to appeal to a slightly different demographic, which is what he's doing I think but more for respect reasons than sales.

[BTFLCHLD]

Isnt Jimmys show taped right across from the Kodak? Yes...Jimmy is filmed at the El Capitan Theatre...also near Mann's. Matthew McCutie (sp?) was there that night for his new movie...I had no idea or I would have been there too. Oh well.

I have to tell you a ridic story...before Kimmel comes out there is a guy who does stand-up to get the crowd rolling. OK...so he comes on and points out Axl Rose in the audience. He was near me...and looked gorgeous. I am like...damn. So Axl takes bow, and everyone is clapping and I am quite tickled. After awhile...the comic points out Marvin Gaye...everyone is clapping...he bows...hold on MG isn't even alive! That was all part of the comic's act...finding celebrity similarities in faces of the crowd. I really thought that was Axl... :o

[DavidMn]

Yes...Jimmy is filmed at the El Capitan Theatre...also near Mann's. Matthew McConacutie (sp?) was there that night for his new movie...I had no idea or I would have been there too. Oh well.

I have to tell you a ridic story...before Kimmel comes out there is a guy who does stand-up to get the crowd rolling. OK...so he comes on and points out Axl Rose in the audience. He was near me...and looked gorgeous. I am like...damn. So Axl takes bow, and everyone is clapping and I am quite tickled. After awhile...the comic points out Marvin Gaye...everyone is clapping...he bows...hold on MG isn't even alive! That was all part of the comic's act...finding celebrity similarities in faces of the crowd. I really thought that was Axl... :oDear, if youve seen Axl Rose's pic lately he looks like hes had more plastic surgery thatn Micheal Jackson.:lol:

[BTFLCHLD]

Dear, if youve seen Axl Rose's pic lately he looks like hes had more plastic surgery thatn Micheal Jackson.:lol: hehe... well I noticed the guy outside the theatre...the wanna-be axl...and he looked just he stepped of the bus for 'welcome to the jungle'...young and HOT :nod: So when the comic intro'd him...I'm like damn he looks good...what's the complaint?

I told you the story was/is ridic...I know Axl has changed... I was stoned...OK!..everybody is finer then! :laugh:

[DavidMn]

hehe... well I noticed the guy outside the theatre...the wanna-be axl...and he looked just he stepped of the bus for 'welcome to the jungle'...young and HOT :nod: So when the comic intro'd him...I'm like damn he looks good...what's the complaint?

I told you the story was/is ridic...I know Axl has changed... I was stoned...OK!..everybody is finer then! :laugh:Ah yes, isnt that always the case.:xoxo:

[Little Nicki]

And the argument was about choosing more accessible songs for his TV appearances in order to expand his fanbase
This is probably a moot point, but I don't think that's what the argument was about. It was about whether or not the song he chose is accomplishing what he thought it would, which I don't think it is.

[shackin'up]

This is probably a moot point, but I don't think that's what the argument was about. It was about whether or not the song he chose is accomplishing what he thought it would, which I don't think it is.

Well. How do you know what he thought it would accomplish? I assume that it accomplishes what he thought it would; he keeps playing it you know? So maybe you make the wrong assumption?

[Little Nicki]

Well. How do you know what he thought it would accomplish? I assume that it accomplishes what he thought it would; he keeps playing it you know? So maybe you make the wrong assumption?

Well that's the argument too - WHAT does he want it to accomplish and is he accomplishing it. We have all been discussing his motives for this whole thread, no?

[shackin'up]

Well that's the argument too - WHAT does he want it to accomplish and is he accomplishing it. We have all been discussing his motives for this whole thread, no?

Then why state that he is not accomplishing what he wants to if he keeps playing it, put it in the spotlight on album, tour and promotion? I just don't see why one will question that. The most strong case has the one that states, that he reaches his goal, because he hasn't changed his plans. Sounds reasonable, no?

[bikerchic]

Hey, I have a thought, why doesn't someone ask him in the Q & A "Lindsey, are you accomplishing what you want by playing this song?" or has someone already?

[BTFLCHLD]

Lindsey will be on the Kimmel show Thursday, January 4.

[amber]

Lindsey will be on the Kimmel show Thursday, January 4.

Thank you! I was wondering if I missed it or something...:xoxo:

[estranged4life]

Lindsey will be on the Kimmel show Thursday, January 4.

for the update :thumbsup:

[BTFLCHLD]

Actor Jerry O'Connell, chef/TV host Giada De Laurentiis, musical guest Lindsey Buckingham

http://abc.go.com/latenight/jimmykimmel/index?pn=guests

cancel this one Kimmel and I will personally come to the el capitan just to kick your ass :nod:

[gldstwmn]

Actor Jerry O'Connell, chef/TV host Giada De Laurentiis, musical guest Lindsey Buckingham

http://abc.go.com/latenight/jimmykimmel/index?pn=guests

cancel this one Kimmel and I will personally come to the el capitan just to kick your ass :nod:

Kicked! :woohoo: Thanks for the heads up.:wavey:

[Little Nicki]

Has Lindsey been cutting the repeat of the last chorus the other times he's performed Not Too Late?

[That'sAll4Evry1]

Has Lindsey been cutting the repeat of the last chorus the other times he's performed Not Too Late?

I don't know about that, but he has been playing the beginning of the song differently for promo appearances it seems. I can't remember that other show he was on but he did it then too. For some reason he doesn't play the beginning like he does on the album and at the shows. Weird. :shrug:

Nevertheless, I loved it!!! Well worth staying up until 1 AM for :D

[amber]

Just saw it. Tears. Linds is so impactful live. That song is so much better for me when i see him do it. And I like it okay on the album, too. ;)
It cuts pretty close, his real meaning isn't obfuscated by anything, it is just plainly personal. Obv, the whole album is astonishingly so, but i guess I just wanted to say it again.

[#1LiddyBuckFan]

It just got me more excited for the live shows this month!!! :thumbsup:

I'm SO excited!!! :]

[wondergirl9847]

It said to go to JimmyKimmelLive.com to see non-televised performances. Is Lindsey over there? I should check it out. Also, loved that you can buy the CD through Jimmy's site. Nice. :thumbsup:

Great performance and yes, he has been doing the beginning different. Wonder if that will still be the opener for this leg of the tour.

[estranged4life]

Missed it due to illness...Oh well.

I'm sure someone recorded it :nod:

[bikerchic]

Please don't hurt me, but I thought it was awful :sorry: but I'll give it another chance if it gets posted.

[skcin]

SH*T! How did I not see this thread bumped up yesterday? Idiot. :mad:

[carrie721]

SH*T! How did I not see this thread bumped up yesterday? Idiot. :mad:

it's okay, i read this yesterday and still missed it last night, and i was up. maybe i just have that much of an aversion to kimmel. :shrug:

[shackin'up]

Wonder if that will still be the opener for this leg of the tour.

Count on it!

[GardenStateGirlie]

Please don't hurt me, but I thought it was awful :sorry: but I'll give it another chance if it gets posted.

theresa, i'm with you -- it wasn't his best. it sounded in parts of the song that the actual pre-recorded track was being played behind him while he was singing as opposed to the echo. it just sounded -- off :shrug:

[That'sAll4Evry1]

Count on it!

Yep, yep. It has to be his opening song. It encompasses everything LB stands for at this moment in time. It sets the tone for the show, in my opinion. And does a great job of it.

[shackin'up]

Yep, yep. It has to be his opening song. It encompasses everything LB stands for at this moment in time. It sets the tone for the show, in my opinion. And does a great job of it.


You have NO idea of how welcome you are over here.:thumbsup:

Explanation:we've had some heat up discussions about this. I totally agree with you.

[danax6]

theresa, i'm with you -- it wasn't his best. it sounded in parts of the song that the actual pre-recorded track was being played behind him while he was singing as opposed to the echo. it just sounded -- off :shrug:Damnit, I really need to hear this now...

[shackin'up]

Damnit, I really need to hear this now...

me too!!!!!

[BTFLCHLD]

My only disappointment is that kimmel didn't make the time for Lindsey's second performance (NGBA)...caught up w/expresso martinis I suppose. :shrug:

Lindsey's performance should be making its way to the following page shortly:

http://abc.go.com/latenight/jimmykimmel/index?pn=garage